This series of interviews are absolutely fascinating with a good level of technical content. You would never see anything like this on broadcast TV. One thing I'd never thought about was pushing almost 1/2 MW into a 60dB antenna, I'm not surprised about the airspace co-ordination requirements - you could probably burn the paint off the side of a helicopter if it was in the wrong place!
This is how documentations used to be when I was a kid. OK, this one is quite a bit more technical than what you could show on TV, but this is not aimed at some average viewer. I hate the new formats, they are all SHOUTY.
Dave, this small series is probably one of your best field trips ever. Richard is not only a very knowledgeable man, but also a great speaker. I live less than 100 miles from Goldstone, however they do not allow tours any longer. Much better than dumpster diving, eh?
Thank you for this series so much. Having worked for many years at Lockheed Martin as an EE, I miss being involved in science and engineering like this.
I'm in a pretty technical field, feel like I'm good at what I do and I watch this guy on this series of videos and know I've wasted my life in comparison.
Loving this content... takes me back to my NRAO days. I was there when the Harvard Agassis dish was scrapped in Sproul Flats, next to the Fort Davis TX VLBA... it was a spindly affair, an equatorial mount. Nothing to be done, it was cracked and broken anyway... the counterweight was lead, a lot of money was made in scrap off that. We had baseband converters (and a cable wrap)... dual conversion, with baseband digitized onto 1" mag tape... now FDVLBA uses the ship-the-hard-drive method and the IF is digitized directly.
When he asked about the klystron I remembered an anecdote from high school. We had laboratory equipment for performing microwave demonstrations and experiments from CCCP from the 70s. The klystron broke down, and our professor collected waste from military surplus, he had waveguides and parts of an old US radar from the 50s, and there was also a klystron. Someone had the idea to adapt that one for our equipment. When we disassembled the protective case, it turned out that the contacts were identical, and after a couple of tests, the operating voltage was almost identical. When we put it in Soviet equipment, it worked flawlessly. Industrial espionage demonstrated in a high school physics lab. I can't believe I remembered that because it happened in 1989.
Oh wow I LIKE this guy, he REALLY knows his stuff!! And those KLYSTRONS - i DO kinda remember how inefficient they are - wonder how much power they have to put IN to get those kilowatts??
This is just some of the coolest stuff on TH-cam. The precision, the power, the thoughtfulness that has been put into every aspect of the operation of this facility, and synchronized with the engineering of the spacecraft, is just awesome. Thank you Dave and everyone at the Canberra facility for this fascinating video series!
Absolutely fantastic series Dave! I live not far from the 76m Jodrell Bank radio telescope in the UK. That and its supporting smaller radio telescopes are just awesome structures.
I really like it when he says "mars rising". It somehow sums up so much awesomenes. The intricate dance of the planets and rotation of the earth, with our tiny tin-cans orbiting around one of them.
can only echo everyone else's sentiments here, it's great that you've bought these to us. I've been past the centre a couple of times, but never seen or understood their benefits in such clear detail as Richard has explained along the way.
Awesome series and content, mate!!! I agree we’d never get to see an interview like this on regular TV outlets! Thanks for your channel and what you do!!!
You only have to go into bookshops and see how tiny the technical sections have become now 😞 I used to frequent a bookstore that had a huge section of books on physics, mathematics, engineering Then I got a job in another area and didn't visit for more than 10 years I was in the area of the bookshop and decided to go into it and to my dismay, the technical areas was almost non existent In my opinion, bookstores reflect the intellectual capabilities of a society, a society that seems to have become dumbed down (yes, I do realise material has moved online a lot, but even so...)
Damn... OG Honeysuckle Creek antenna! No wonder nobody wants to demolish it - I wouldn't either. Perhaps it's still useful as a teaching tool? Great series, Dave! 👍
I enjoy all of these videos, interesting content, Mr. Stephenson does a great job explaining everything, and Dave has done a great job putting it all together thanksl
so to digitize the 300MHz IF, do they separately sample the I and Q at 300MSPS each or sample the IF directly at 600MSPS? excuse me if my question and its assumptions don't entirely make sense
As a Machinist i find this fascinating. Keeping as what i would refer to backlash to such a minimum with that giant of an assembly. Those Hydraulic motors are basically pulling in both directions at the same time to keep everything as rigid as possible.
Do they have to “lead” the signal in transmitter pointing since the time delay can be great? The spacecraft may have moved slightly by the time it gets there?
The incoming signal will also lag the current position. You can imagine a situation where the spacecraft is travelling too fast sideways to allow for RX and TX on the same antenna
Tidbinbilla?! I use to love going there and exploring the centre as a kid, it was one of 2 locations I used to love going to before leaving the region 19.5 years ago. The other place I used to love visiting was The National Science and Technology Centre, aka; Questacon! :D
When he says that people like the big dish for the bandwidth to download stuff quicker - how does the spacecraft know how fast to send stuff? Do they tell it in the command?
Is there any video availble of a dish like this going full transmit power on some tree or or a hunk of meat at e.g. 1km distance? How would that look like?
Thats just like the tesla cell phone satellite, big ol antenna sets up an arrangement of self similar signals to penetrate the atmosphere. Like if you just used a camera and took pictures of the clouds, "uhhaa, supposed to see blue jimbo." Then you have some data to compare and subtract, but multiple clouds also gives you sysmic jitter for the camera's stabilization gyro. So you just told all the clouds, stay put.
A guy I knew back in the 80s had worked at a US military ELF extremely low frequency radio center for use by submaries. It was a giant ground-level circular structure. When it was operating, he said any bird flying over would start smoking and plummet to the ground. Anybody know if he was exaggerating?
Noise sources would typically be much closer to the site. So very loud compared to what they are probably trying to listen to. Which means a side lobe could easily pick that junk up. If you want to really get into the weeds lets talk about how much the Earth wobbles on its axis. hehe
I once detected a quasi quantum multi-dimensional subatomic super conducting nano meta proton muon scaler ray fusion gamma frequency plasma field when i microwaved a HotPocket with the wrapper on.
No. Two separate signal sources won't add together. In fact, unless they're perfectly in phase they will just interfere with each other and produce gibberish and highly reduce the power level.
Well ok, maybe he's never got down and dirty with the nuts and volts of the thang ;) But whilst youre here ,whats the avg EFFICIENCY of those things? I thought they could only do 1-3 percent???
This series of interviews are absolutely fascinating with a good level of technical content. You would never see anything like this on broadcast TV. One thing I'd never thought about was pushing almost 1/2 MW into a 60dB antenna, I'm not surprised about the airspace co-ordination requirements - you could probably burn the paint off the side of a helicopter if it was in the wrong place!
This is how documentations used to be when I was a kid. OK, this one is quite a bit more technical than what you could show on TV, but this is not aimed at some average viewer. I hate the new formats, they are all SHOUTY.
Dave, this small series is probably one of your best field trips ever. Richard is not only a very knowledgeable man, but also a great speaker. I live less than 100 miles from Goldstone, however they do not allow tours any longer.
Much better than dumpster diving, eh?
oh I thought Dave was going dumpster diving for that old 26metre dish. Will it fit on the back of the ute??
Thank you for this series so much. Having worked for many years at Lockheed Martin as an EE, I miss being involved in science and engineering like this.
Can’t wait for parts 4 through 10!
I'm in a pretty technical field, feel like I'm good at what I do and I watch this guy on this series of videos and know I've wasted my life in comparison.
Loving this content... takes me back to my NRAO days. I was there when the Harvard Agassis dish was scrapped in Sproul Flats, next to the Fort Davis TX VLBA... it was a spindly affair, an equatorial mount. Nothing to be done, it was cracked and broken anyway... the counterweight was lead, a lot of money was made in scrap off that. We had baseband converters (and a cable wrap)... dual conversion, with baseband digitized onto 1" mag tape... now FDVLBA uses the ship-the-hard-drive method and the IF is digitized directly.
When he asked about the klystron I remembered an anecdote from high school. We had laboratory equipment for performing microwave demonstrations and experiments from CCCP from the 70s. The klystron broke down, and our professor collected waste from military surplus, he had waveguides and parts of an old US radar from the 50s, and there was also a klystron. Someone had the idea to adapt that one for our equipment. When we disassembled the protective case, it turned out that the contacts were identical, and after a couple of tests, the operating voltage was almost identical. When we put it in Soviet equipment, it worked flawlessly. Industrial espionage demonstrated in a high school physics lab. I can't believe I remembered that because it happened in 1989.
Nostalga having worked for Varian and with Klystrons in general for many years. Great series.
I'm sure I've fought the Varians and Klystrons in some game 🤔
I really loved this series. Being Amateur Radio and had built RF Amplifiers myself made this series even more interesting
Oh wow I LIKE this guy, he REALLY knows his stuff!!
And those KLYSTRONS - i DO kinda remember how inefficient they are - wonder how much power they have to put IN to get those kilowatts??
Not sure if theyre good for gigahertz frequencies, like X band and K band@@roncaruso931 - anyone know a bit more about these 'Klystrode' thingies ???
This is just some of the coolest stuff on TH-cam. The precision, the power, the thoughtfulness that has been put into every aspect of the operation of this facility, and synchronized with the engineering of the spacecraft, is just awesome. Thank you Dave and everyone at the Canberra facility for this fascinating video series!
Absolutely fantastic series Dave! I live not far from the 76m Jodrell Bank radio telescope in the UK. That and its supporting smaller radio telescopes are just awesome structures.
I really like it when he says "mars rising". It somehow sums up so much awesomenes. The intricate dance of the planets and rotation of the earth, with our tiny tin-cans orbiting around one of them.
can only echo everyone else's sentiments here, it's great that you've bought these to us. I've been past the centre a couple of times, but never seen or understood their benefits in such clear detail as Richard has explained along the way.
Chris Gammell Down Undahhh!
Just a 14 hour flight away, you could be here tomorrow!
@@EEVblog I honestly could not endure it!
Fantastic series Dave! Absolutely peerless coverage of a technological marvel working in the background to advance our knowledge. Thanks!
Thanks for this. Ive taken the tour at Goldstone, but we never got to look at the computer screens in the signal processing center.
Yo Philly here! Nice to see our city contributing to the effort. All the best gears are made in Philadelphia.
Best video I've watched all week! At least since part 2.
Same here, and before that one was part 1.
I could watch these all day long.
These videos were awesome to watch. My dad used to do satellite tracking at Onizuka and would have loved to see this stuff.
Awesome series and content, mate!!! I agree we’d never get to see an interview like this on regular TV outlets! Thanks for your channel and what you do!!!
You only have to go into bookshops and see how tiny the technical sections have become now 😞
I used to frequent a bookstore that had a huge section of books on physics, mathematics, engineering
Then I got a job in another area and didn't visit for more than 10 years
I was in the area of the bookshop and decided to go into it and to my dismay, the technical areas was almost non existent
In my opinion, bookstores reflect the intellectual capabilities of a society, a society that seems to have become dumbed down (yes, I do realise material has moved online a lot, but even so...)
Thanks Dave and Richard for the video really enjoyed the geek stuff. ERP +86dbm + 60db = ⚡+146dbm OMG!
Damn... OG Honeysuckle Creek antenna! No wonder nobody wants to demolish it - I wouldn't either. Perhaps it's still useful as a teaching tool? Great series, Dave! 👍
That’s a 0.09 dB noise figure for that LNA. Crazy.
Comes from Dave's EEVdiscover channel in 2007.
Thanks for confirming. Something did not make sense when they said Arecibo "is".
That also explains why JWST isn’t mentioned. Still awesome video’s
Again, Thank you for this fascinating series of 3 videos.
I enjoy all of these videos, interesting content, Mr. Stephenson does a great job explaining everything, and Dave has done a great job putting it all together thanksl
so to digitize the 300MHz IF, do they separately sample the I and Q at 300MSPS each or sample the IF directly at 600MSPS? excuse me if my question and its assumptions don't entirely make sense
As a Machinist i find this fascinating. Keeping as what i would refer to backlash to such a minimum with that giant of an assembly. Those Hydraulic motors are basically pulling in both directions at the same time to keep everything as rigid as possible.
Wow, that was brilliant. Thank you so much for this technical tour, love the interview style while showing stuff :-)
So very informative, Richard is a wealth of knowledge and a real gem.
In the sea of modern phased-array antennas, Big (or in this case HUGE) Ugly Dish's are still an awesome thing.
Ugly? Nahh beautiful :)
And I'm sure this guy thinks so - you can tell he's fonder of the 70m to the industry standard 35 !
A bird getting into the FOV would get absolutely fried, as would any commercial aircraft!! I wonder if any starlink satellites pass over
Amazing stuff, Dave! Thank for producing and sharing! 😎👍
Really nice series! All the details - great! Having a background in RF technology and antennas, I am enjoying this really very much!
I toured Goldstone back in November of 2011 with the public safety / amateur radio group I belonged to.
Brilliant interviews, best I've ever seen.
Andy
Great series!
Do they have to “lead” the signal in transmitter pointing since the time delay can be great? The spacecraft may have moved slightly by the time it gets there?
I can't believe dave didn't ask that
The incoming signal will also lag the current position. You can imagine a situation where the spacecraft is travelling too fast sideways to allow for RX and TX on the same antenna
Nice to see Chris! Good choice on the camera angle.
So you cold push more power to the spacecraft when it's on the complementary horizon of two antennas.
thanks very much dave for posting
Awesome series. Thanks Dave!
Tidbinbilla?! I use to love going there and exploring the centre as a kid, it was one of 2 locations I used to love going to before leaving the region 19.5 years ago. The other place I used to love visiting was The National Science and Technology Centre, aka; Questacon! :D
Great series. You've got to get out and about more often !
Wow, that was so interesting. Brilliant Dave.
Nice antenna mount. I could sure use one of those. 😊
Excellent! Additional info fills in well. Thanks.
Легендарное видео. Спасибо дейв
Dave, great job!
When he says that people like the big dish for the bandwidth to download stuff quicker - how does the spacecraft know how fast to send stuff? Do they tell it in the command?
how strong is the transmission from the 70 m large dish in Canberra, there was talk of 400 kw and 63 db gain
Thanks for doing these Dave; I've really enjoyed this so far!
just fantastic , love the post , shame things like this becoming obsolesce
So are those big dishes radar telescopes rather than radio telescopes? they can transmit as well.
He mentions Cassini several times - that was de-orbited into Saturn back in 2017. When was this video shot?
Cassini was a Long Outer Planet mission … so it was a daily communications target for 20 years (1997-2017)
Oh gutted, I swear I saw you in Kingston over the weekend 😅 Great video as always mate!
Is there any video availble of a dish like this going full transmit power on some tree or or a hunk of meat at e.g. 1km distance? How would that look like?
Thats just like the tesla cell phone satellite, big ol antenna sets up an arrangement of self similar signals to penetrate the atmosphere. Like if you just used a camera and took pictures of the clouds, "uhhaa, supposed to see blue jimbo." Then you have some data to compare and subtract, but multiple clouds also gives you sysmic jitter for the camera's stabilization gyro. So you just told all the clouds, stay put.
Tour Pine Gap next?!
That's crazy, I would of thought they would use slip rings so they could track clockwise forever without having to worry about cables.
400 kW + 63 dB OMG
Top presentation! Thanks!
I cant let you do that Dave !This conversation can serve no purpose !
A guy I knew back in the 80s had worked at a US military ELF extremely low frequency radio center for use by submaries. It was a giant ground-level circular structure. When it was operating, he said any bird flying over would start smoking and plummet to the ground. Anybody know if he was exaggerating?
Hm. Depends on frequency used. But getting power into anything that's smaller than 1/4 of the wavelength would be really hard...
I wonder what the resonate frequency of the physical antenna is?
what would be its most efficient frequencies?
All space agencies (NASA, JAXA, ESA) are looking at Laser for more bandwidth.
Geek paradise!!
Noise sources would typically be much closer to the site. So very loud compared to what they are probably trying to listen to. Which means a side lobe could easily pick that junk up. If you want to really get into the weeds lets talk about how much the Earth wobbles on its axis. hehe
Please tell us you’re going to convince them to let you look for any possible traces of the lost moon landing tapes!
@@Okurka. I’d like to tell you to go do something with that honeysuckle antenna that matches its name.
They have not been lost, they have been fully overwritten with newer stuff.
Thry weren’t lost. And they were backup slow scan TV tapes. We reused tapes every day at Orroral Valley, just up the road from Tidbinbilla.
70 Meters diameter Dish. Wow!
But you know solar roadways would work on the moon. RIGHT?
very good series
Very interesting interview, thank you.
Smashed that like button so hard my phone ended up in 2035!
* it came back again so I could tell ya’ll aboot it
its amusing that even experts when they are english speakers would say "1 Hert"
AMAZING!
Great video.
I once detected a quasi quantum multi-dimensional subatomic super conducting nano meta proton muon scaler ray fusion gamma frequency plasma field when i microwaved a HotPocket with the wrapper on.
Don't go flying a drone here - they won't tell you not too, the antenna would just bring it down all on its own even before you got near it ;)
No. Two separate signal sources won't add together.
In fact, unless they're perfectly in phase they will just interfere with each other and produce gibberish and highly reduce the power level.
i though that was supposed to say CCSDS in the intro. lol
When part 4
Awesome !...cheers.
He certainly doesn’t know his klystrons. He said the said a high voltage connection flange was the waveguide output coupler. Oops
Well ok, maybe he's never got down and dirty with the nuts and volts of the thang ;)
But whilst youre here ,whats the avg EFFICIENCY of those things? I thought they could only do 1-3 percent???
So grand! ...with ,wwriculous details.
400kw transmit power? Good lord.
WoW ! That would make one really big WOK ! Yum !
Might be more efficient to point the beam at your dinner - cooked in no time!
👍👍
I feel like "Tidbinbilla" is a name someone came up with as a joke and they ran with it.
Not first
!First