Quick Story I feel like sharing: my dad and I would go to Cedar Point once a year. One year we were waiting in line for Millennium, when it started raining. I'd say a little bit more than a sprinkle and it was probably around 7 at night. The line quickly emptied and people were leaving the park. My dad and I waited a couple minutes and realized, the ride was still running! We got on and as we were about to exit the ride, the ride operator said if we wanted to ride again, we could open the gate to get directly back in line to the ride station. There were about 50 of us and we started doing laps on Millennium! My dad and I lost count at around 30 rides for the day. After the first drop we actually started getting BORED of the ride. One of the rider operators kept asking what number we were on as we were about to board the train. One of my favorite memories with my dad.
I love when ride operators are cool like that, my dad and I got to ride the Riddler like 9 times at six flags GA because it was close to closing, and they didn't have to keep the line open anymore :)
for those of you who are unfamiliar a block zone is a section of track where which only 1 train may occupy, this is how we should ask eachother if we know who eltoro ryan is
I actually started as a ride op this year, I don't know what all is changed but if you see how the operators are treated by management now, it might make sense why operating is so slow. I was put on the railroad and even that was a horrible experience. Maybe its always been that way but I dont feel like the management here really has any care or love for the rides. I feel like ops are being fired all too often from their positions Millennium Force is definitely the Lightning McQueen of rollercoasters.
@@Readyforit7723 thanks! I've been considering other parks, namely ValleyFair and SF Great America, since they're closer to my home, but I'm not sure. Great America I'm most familiar with but ValleyFair seems nice too. I'm on the fence on whether I want to stay a ride operator or try something in live entertainment
I went to Cedar Point for the first time on June 8th, 9th, and 10th of this year. I grew up watching Travel Channel's Extreme Roller Coasters, and they always talked about Millennium Force . I spent my whole childhood dreaming about that coaster. At 21, I finally got there. I legitimately had tears in my eyes when I got off because it was just as perfect as I imagined. I hope they fix the operations, because Millie is truly something special.
i regret not riding it. the tallest coaster i rode before i went to cedar point was ride of steel at darien lake. a baby coaster compared to cedar point coasters. but it made me feel like a little scared kid again seeing how insane cedar point is. i did ride steel vengeance though. i dont enjoy being really high in the air.
I’ve had so many amazing times on that ride! I love the late night back whip! I can’t stop laughing 😂 I come off with a big smile every time. EVERY SINGLE TIME!
Same, just for me it was at 24, coming all the way from germany. I heard that it was overrated and kinda forceless so I tried to not have too high of an expectation despite it being this legendary all time most wanted for me. I was blown away. It's been my #1 since then among more than 500 coasters I've been on.
Cedar Point is by far the best amusement park in the country if not world IMHO! Definitely #1 for extreme thrill rides! And #1 for roller coasters! It's very hard to top Cedar Point lol
I got stuck on the lift hill earlier this month when I visited Cedar Point. We were stuck there for about 25 minutes. Apparently one of the seatbelts somehow came undone. This stopped the ride and our train fell backward onto the anti-rollback teeth, which was pretty unsettling. I didn't realize just how steep that lift really is. I had to let my head fall backwards because holding it up started to hurt. It was neat to see the maintenance guy and ride op riding the service elevator to the rider. They were able to unbuckle and buckle that seatbelt again. Then they went back down and about a few minutes later we continued our trip up the lift hill. Gotta say I've never experienced that before on any ride. Pretty nuts!
sounds like an interesting experience... I once got stuck on a rollercoaster called 'the big one' at Blackpool pleasure beach, UK... turns out they'd loaded the 'fast' train that morning... anyway as the train was shooting back into the station the breaks clamped down hard, we came to a very sharp stop but the train over-shot the breaking zone slightly because it was going so fast... of course this made the whole ride shut down and we had to wait 20 mins while they turned it off and re-booted the system... the view from the track was quite nice though and at least it wasn't raining haha
This happened to a friend of mine. A lady on the ride freaked out and unbuckled her seatbelt on the lift which stopped the ride. They had to wait 40 plus minutes before a cart came up the stairway and they were brought back down one row at a time. He said it was awful and some small kid peed himself. Worse than that, they later saw the same women on steel vengeance! They didn’t even kick her out of the park.
That's definitely not how it works on magnum😂 I accidentally bumped my seatbelt on that ride and unbuckled it on the way up the lift hill. The ride just kept going. Thankfully I got it buckled again right when we got to the top. Especially cuz I almost fly out of that ride even with the seatbelt on!!
The biggest perk of riding Millennium is the high protein snack you are offered when riding in the front car after dusk. I highly recommend wearing your sunglasses even after sunset.
I’m glad someone else finally noticed this. While there for coastermania earlier this month, the operations were horrible. It also got stuck at the top of the lift at least 5 or 6 times in a day and a half, one of them during ert on friday night, where the park literally just gave up after an hour of waiting. Keep in mind it was also the only major ride open at this point for the event, but that mess of an ert schedule is a whole different story. Also on a much minor note, I hate how they have an auto spiel now. One of my favorite things about that ride was how the main operator had to spiel everything out in the time that the cable was getting ready, it just brought so much energy to every dispatch. It just kinda feels lifeless without that now honestly
Some of the dispatch times that Ryan showed in this video was the day of Coastermania (June 2022). That Millennium Force is now down to Maverick/Steel Vengeance capacity levels explains a lot. Cedar Point always used to try for elite operations and it absolutely does not hit the operations levels that Kings Island does.
Yeah I agree, it’s boring. It seems they usually (not always) have an operator who hypes the crowd in the station in millennium, but when you come back to the exit station it’s always some foreigner who doesn’t say anything to the riders. I want the ride ops to be damn near as excited as I am to ride.
it costs more money to have a well trained crew. also, a great managing strategy, is to manage the staff based on the personality of the employee and using that personality at certain rides/jobs/location in park. seems like the managers at the park are not good managers. again, good managers also cost even more money then regular staff. on average, to pay for a better manager(each manager) can demand up to another, 7k a year more on average. also, a regular staff employee can demand up to another, 2k to 2.5k more a year. adding all of the staff total....having a full great staff can cost a park this size, another, 250k plus more per year. with parks losing so much money during covid......no way do parks want to then add another 250k plus more in wages per year. that 250k plus more per year, after just 5 years, the park could have had more cash on hand for financing a new massive ride or have the cash to out right pay for a smaller ride/kid ride for the park. running a continuous profitable business is so incredibly hard to do.
@@nexpro6118 "after just 5 years, the park could have had more cash on hand for financing a new massive ride" and in that time, ruined its reputation and see a dramatic loss in attendance. Paying an extra $250k for stellar service is absolutely worth it. That's peanuts. Cedar Fair owns 11 parks. Assuming Cedar Point (their flagship park) only gets 1/11th of their overall revenues, they bring in over $163 million annually. With 3 million attendance per year, that's an average price per guest of about $50 (coincidentally, that's their ticket price). Obviously, they make much more on concessions, parking, fast passes, etc. If improved service results in even 5000 people or 0.2% more attendance, that's a profit. Over that many LIKED this video. This video has received 214,000 views. This video alone may have easily cost Cedar Fair more money in lost attendance than you are suggesting it would take to improve the service. Think about it this way. People who travel to visit theme parks are going to compare them. And then they will talk about those parks with their friends on communities such as this comment section. When word of mouth gets out that your service staff are slow and unenthusiastic vs another park, people are going to plan to visit the better park. You lose out on customers and the customers you lose out on are likely the most vocal advocates you could wish for, who will now be advocating your competition. Obviously, it's not worth paying infinity dollars for stellar service. There is a limit. For a company making a net profit of over 268 million (assumed 24 million minimum on this park at my even spread analysis), spending 1% of their net profits to wow guests and improve attendance by even 1% (which would result in 6% more net profit)...
Worked at CP in 21. A lot of it was motivational, a lot of behind the scenes stuff happened that year that made a lot of us unhappy. Plus, we were short staffed and training almost across the board was kinds rushed. A lot of people were also just there for a paycheck and couldnt be bothered to care.
I haven’t been to CP since 2019 but pretty much everything I’ve heard from the park since they re-opened post COVID has not been good and it’s not just a problem at Millennium Force. Between operations being much worse than the past, rides down all the time, insane crowds, overselling of fast lanes, and major staffing problems, I honestly might just stay away for a few more years until it all gets sorted out.
Disney parks having the most trouble, i wouldnt want to do disney this year because it wouldnt be the rightful experience. Until they get more staffing, bring back some old free amenities, and also just let the crowds of people that waited for 2 years die down....i will wait for disney a few years.
I found that operations at Six Flags New England and Six Flags Great Adventure, operations improved a lot from 2021 to 2022. But I didn't visit any parks in 2019, so I have nothing to compare it to.
I figure they lost all the maintenance people and cant hire decent ones. Six flags is about 10-20$ per hour low on pay for a decent electical/controls technician. They just raised their pay to 30$ this year.
I love how you mentioned Corkscrew and its seatbelt conversion that happened back in 2005. I was a ride op on that ride when we got outfitted with the seatbelts overnight after we had a train return to the station with unlocked restraints in one car. It definitely crushed crew morale, and we never managed to hit the same numbers for the rest of the season after than happened. Fun times...
@@danmurphy9173 the car was loaded when that happened. With how the physics for the ride are, I don’t think it would be very easy for someone to just fall out, especially if you’re holding on to the handles that are built in to the shoulder restraints. Most of the forces involved on that ride are pushing you into the seat. The only spot that I remember having any negative G forces at all would be the small hill after the first drop and before the first inversion. Not saying that the restraints aren’t important, more that I believe the engineers who designed everything built in multiple levels of safety into the design, and is likely why they didn’t design the ride to have seatbelts from the very beginning.
My home park is Six Flags New England, and they have a similar ride to Millennium Force in Superman The Ride. Other than the layout, the main differences are that it has a chain lift, no unload station, and only 2 trains. The crew this year is excellent. One of my friends is on that crew and told me that he has done up to 34 trains per hour and consistently hits 30. Despite being the park's headlining attraction, it has one of the shortest lines for any of the major coasters. It goes to show just how important good operations are.
Hopefully they aren't dispatching that fast because they still aren't checking if ppl should ride or are belted in completely like when the disaster happened
By contrast, in the early 2000's when Cedar Point was excellent with operations, I'd go to SFNE and they'd be struggling to get 15-20 dispatches an hour on Superman. It's like things have kind of reversed.
I worked Millennium last summer (summer of 2023), and long story short, the catch car system needs to be completely replaced. The maintenance team changed something in the rides operational software. Previously, you could dispatch trains before the previous train was fully stopped in the waiting area. However, if you tried to do this now, you would get a block check and the train would stop on the lift hill slowly after leaving the station. So, there were times where we would be running extremely smooth and very quickly, however we would still find ourselves standing around waiting for the previous train to enter the waiting area. I remember times where the train was full, all seats were checked, and all clears were given (thumbs up), and the controls operator (sometimes myself) would have to wait for the train. Guests would ask us what we were waiting for. It might have even been more frustrating for us as crew members because we had to deal with people who thought we were just operating slowly.
Really nice analysis Ryan. Unfortunately, I think it all comes down to money for Cedar Fair. Weather that means more money in selling tickets for extra days admission, or more people buying fast lane. They don’t seem to have much financial motivation to increase capacity.
Well Cedar Fair just made 310 million at the expense of closing Great America. So money should not be an excuse. Great America closes in less than 10 years.
@@jamesm7517 Oh wow I just saw this comment, and thought it wasn't true, but it turns out it was true...... I thought Cedar Fair bought the land and completely own it now, but I guess they still leased the land.
wait so what is happening to great america?? is it being sold, and will be an amusement park rin by a different company OR is it going to be something stupid and no more park at all!?!?
I think Covid has seriously affected staffing at the park. They have been clearly understaffed the past couple years, and the staff they do have often isn’t trained well enough. Cedar Point gets so much staff from overseas which can’t be easy right now. It’s certainly more complicated than the staff being “lazy”
I was going to say this issues is likely more due to post covid staffing issues than anything else as this is not just a Cedar Point issue but covers the entire region. As I have heard, they have been having a hard time maintaining minimum staff levels, and the ongoing lack of international student staff due to Covid has not been helping this. This puts management in a bad position. First your running rides understaffed, which keeps the ride open but also lowers your efficiency. Management also needs to take a laxed approach and accept poor performance just to keep enough staff to run at those levels.
@@RatBürgerSk8 it’s not how guests “have gotten” (they were always like that). It’s the availability of an option to work on spreadsheets, ordering systems, digital art, design corrections, codewriting, email fielding, schedulewriting, etc while in your robe on your own personal laptop, from the comfort of your own couch, where there’s no busybody middle manager there to look over your shoulder and run up your ass for having a March Madness game on in the background while you work, often for more pay. Given those sorts of options, why would someone choose to dorm in an unfamiliar city for 4 months, stand in the hot sun, or at best in the stagnant shade, get abused by guests, and run yourself to physical exhaustion trying to pressure those (often obese) guests to get seated and secure their restraints in under 90 seconds over and over and over, for a wage that barely pays the bills, all while a stock price minded upper management throws a fitola about staffing costs and tries to find excuses to fire anyone making better than a poverty wage? Ride staffing should be an enjoyable job. You’re literally in the business of fun. The way upper management handles this shit is a case study in tightasses taking the fun out of fun.
@@PiGood I think you could be totally right here. I was there for the last couple of weekends and rides were consistently down, with staff advising windy weather made things too dangerous. But I think the reality is more staff / under-staffed related. A problem effecting virtually everything since covid. Hopefully next year things will look up a little...
I feel this is a good example of how far Cedar Point’s ops have fallen. In contrast, at Kings Island I frequently see staff on Orion dispatching trains so fast from the station, that the station train hits the lift hill even before the proceeding train hits the brake run. They will almost always be running 3 train ops too, even on slow days with waits < 20min.
Yeah, how is it that the flagship Cedar Fair park can't figure this out, and the other larger Cedar Fair parks have still been better than that of Cedar Point's?
Lots of this is based on our instruction and the new programming of the ride, which almost requires stacking. We’re aware it’s running slower, but it’s much easier on the ride.
@@alexphillips4325 Is it easier on the ride though? Easier on the crews, probably. You don't have to work at a higher speed consistently. But the ride was designed for a 100 second interval and a motor built and designed to run at the original 600cm/sec shouldn't wear any faster than a motor designed for 450cm/sec. Moreover, stacking a train on the drive tires and then having to restart motion would probably actually put more wear on that tire than just maintaining a constant force in motion. I just don't see there being any feasible improvement in wear and tear operating the ride at this reduced capacity. Moreover, if there IS an improvement in wear rates this is a cost that Cedar Point used to view as being worth it in order to improve the park experience. And deciding that it isn't still represents a reduction in a focus on guest experience at the park by management. I'm very skeptical in that claim though. If you're being told it's easier on the ride mechanically I suspect you're being lied to.
When I rode Mille back in mid-July 2021, they seemed to be hitting the interval pretty consistently. Mille is actually my dad and brother’s favorite ride at Cedar Point. Keep up the good work mate!
I just went there for the first time this year early June. Millennium Force was a fantastic ride but I was quite shocked at the dispatch times. I didn’t even know it’s original capacity, but it was astonishing to see how slow the crew was moving for such a big ride. Very sad to hear it’s gone downhill recently, but I’m not surprised to hear that based on my first experience
I worked Wild Thing at Valleyfair back in the day. No matter how tired or beat up I was, I and most of the team prided ourselves on dispatching as many trains per hour as possible (not to mention Wild Thing's block/computer system is really stupid.) 80% of the time, we only had two loaders who had to check 18 rows each. When I went back to VF this year I was disgusted by how slow and uncaring the ride crew, team leads, and area *supervisors* were about efficiency. I got the impression they were there to get paid and nothing else. THANK YOU for calling out slow ride operators. They don't know the time of their life that they're missing out on if only they actually gave a **** about giving other people a good experience. I worked lame af Wild Thing and I had a blast. I would LOVE the opprotunity to work at one of the world's greatest coasters. #jelly P.S. Thank you for trashing iRoc & stupid seatbelts!!!
As a former ride operator at Canada's Wonderland, our team focused a lot on capacity, especially myself. Of course, we operated smaller rides in their kids' section, but still, it was important for us to at least hit the minimum or at least a bit better than what Canada's Wonderland puts those rides at for its operating manual. We would at times hit that number easily, or close to it as possible pretty consistently. And in terms of overall capacity at the park, I would not wait too long in lines that looked really long. Canada's Wonderland was always on their a-game when it came to capacity, especially on their bigger rides like their 3 B&M coasters. Their three B&Ms are capacity monsters, and I don't usually have to wait too long in one section of the line. I'd sometimes get through the line quicker than I anticipate, which shows the dedication of all the ride crews. Canada's Wonderland isn't even Cedar Fair's flagship park, but it still gets more visitors than Cedar Point, and the lines move a lot quicker (at least from my experience). I agree that IROC slows things a lot, and kind of unnecessary to make those standards even stricter than they already were. It's not as bad in kids' areas, but at larger rides, I can understand that those even stricter standards can slow down an already fast dispatch crew. Cedar Point is the flagship Cedar Fair park, and the fact that Cedar Fair still hasn't sorted this all out blows my mind, and should not happen. It's like they just gave up on the park and made it so lifeless.
I feel like parks have realized that people are going to come no matter what. We are long past the days of building more coasters taller, faster, longer, and wilder, adding more thrill rides, and striving for great capacity and operations. The industry has stabilized over the last decade and parks are realizing that spending big bucks on coasters is not going to prove to be a worthy investment. Take Cedar Point for example. When they choose to add a new restaurant over a coaster of any type, there is going to be little to no difference in attendance and ROI.
There is quite a bit of truth to this. I grew up during the golden age of coasters, I was born in 86 and started riding rollercoasters in the early 90s through 2000s. I think about back then, my home park Great Escape got rollercoasters 3 years in a row! They haven't had a "major" coaster added since Canyon Blaster which was a bucket of rust sitting in a field. Six Flags and Cedar Fair are much more concerned with their debt load and it's just a different time in life. Everything is so much more expensive than it used to be. The systems these rides run on are much more advanced. Then you also have employees making much more money than they used to make. Unfortunately I think this is just the way things are going to be, there has been so much consolidation between the major companies and I'm not sure it's been a positive force in amusement parks. Cedar Point has always been the gold standard of US amusement parks and I like to think they will always be adding major coasters and such but the debt load with Cedar Fair is pretty scary. Never in a million years did I think they would close California Great America. Reminds me so much of Geauga Lake.
This, plus there's been a shift in the amusement industry away from thrill rides and towards immersive experiences. If we see a Coaster Wars 2.0, it's going to be less based on stats and more based on combining ride experience and theming.
@@SJSmith-vq6wy Absolutely agree. Since CP came out with the drink and food bracelets, people are spending more time eating and drinking to get their money’s worth.
This "they'll come no matter what" mentality is what killed Kmart. Yeah it usually works great for 20 years or so until your stuff gets outdated, the repair bills stack up and your competitors start offering a better experience.
Ryan you totally should set yourself up as an operator consultant (if you aren't already) - let executive team at each park hire you to analyse ops and come up with throughput solutions xx
Loved hearing about the engineering facts of the Millinium. I always wondered why the train sped up as you approached the top of the lift hill. Makes sense. 😁
@@ElToroRyan When the rules first changed in early ‘05, every rider had to be able to pull an inch of visible slack on the belt in order to be able to ride. Problem is there were no visible markings on the belts, and they were all definitely different sizes (including the test seat belt, which to this day I swear was the longest of the bunch). We probably averaged a dozen LG’s an hour that made it to the load platform but couldn’t ride.
@@ElToroRyan it changed to a 1/2 inch at some point, and then by mid-summer they installed new belts with orange lines on them to make it easier to check (we were using two fingers before). Dragster had the same policy. I assume it had something to do with the investigation of the death on Superman at SFNE the year before.
Last year, when I was an attendant on superman at sfne we had a ride night, and I noticed some seatbelts were longer than others. Which seat belts were longer were random, but if you paid attention you could tell which was which by the thread size on the red part of the belt. The shorter ones are all a lighter red with thinner threads and the longer ones were a deeper red, had larger thread size, and a black outer border of stitches.
Just ride it yesterday, ops were definitely slow and ended up waiting about an hour. It DOES ride great though and they still have that banger song playing. A lot of your complaints about the safety procedures remind me of complaints I hear about food safety working in restaurants. The thing to remember is that the procedures aren't really designed to maximize productivity or even compliment it, they exist to be a standard that can shield companies from law suits by standardizing steps that do everything I'm human power to minimize the chances of accidents, and really are the best practices. It's frustrating sometimes, but just like no meal is so good that someone should get sick, no line is so long that it's worth risking another accident. And I know the dragster thing wasn't anyone's fault, but still, that will probably, and should definitely change Cesar points approach for however long they stay open.
this whole ops “lack of motivation” thing is super real. had a similar experience at Busch Gardens recently. Iron Gwazi was dispatching every 300 seconds 🙁
I guess I got lucky with some ops that were really trying to send out trains quickly when I was there. At best iron gwazi was dispatching at about 100 second intervals
@@SJSmith-vq6wy what's minimum wage from thirty years ago if you account for inflation? How about average upper management wages with inflation from that era compared to now? People have a hard time adjusting their brains to higher costs requiring higher wages.
Iron Gwazi has a really dumb dispatching system. The ops individually check each seat belt being fastened. Then the restraints are lowered and they have to check again.
Great video. Happy to see others are noticing what I've been noticing and calling it out. I worked there in the early 2000's and Cedar Point operations these days make me want to vomit. The thing that concerns me is the C-Suite might see declines in ridership like this (and many other rides - Gemini is an extreme example) and jumps to the conclusion that people aren't wanting to ride as much so they build restaurants instead, maybe even remove rides. I think things really took a big downward turn when they brought in IROC to do ride training and stopped doing it themselves. Things like standing on dots, not being able to move about to pair up riders, not being able to clear while moving back to position, not being able to skip a slow guest and come back to them, not being able to have two crew members meet in the middle so if one gets stuck with a guest, the other cam check their remaining seart, having to have the unload side totally clear before clearing, "scan", etc are just adding up in a death by 1000 cuts sort of way. Their operations are below average on many rides now and not close to stellar like they used to be.
I disagree with your iROC critique, while it does make some things a bit slower, it does come with a lot of safety and professionalism benefits. it's also too often used as an excuse for slow operations when it's still easily possible to move efficiently with iROC. Regarding staffing, it's really not an issue for the park this season, it definitely was last year, but this year things have been really good. Efficiency is still in the parks blood, this can be seen especially when looking at other rides like Steel Vengeance this season. That being said, there is definitely room to grow as you highlighted in this video. The park sees this too, in fact, there is a large efficiency push in the park that's just getting underway. Currently there is also a Cedar Fair wide ridership challenge going on as well. I think things are definitely looking up for the future!
I’ll have to disagree, I did 4 seasons at the park at the beginning of iROC, the park was already very safe the way it operated before IROC. Each season extra rules were added that didn’t do anything to increase safety, but they did everything to slow things down. It was frustrating seeing everything getting slower each season. Then I went to work for another park that didn’t have iROC I saw how they operated just as safe, just as professionally, more efficiently, and without all the excessive iROC rules. That’s when I really grew not be a fan of iROC.
I definitely see a lot of rides this past week pushing capacity(big shout outs to Cedar Creek and Blue Streak). It's definitely a huge improvement over what I saw a lot of times last year, where I'd be lucky to find another coaster besides Magnum that wasn't stacking a lot. I still think Cedar Point could do with some cross training at Kings Island. I rarely see rides with slow operation there over the past few years(besides Flight of Fear). I still can't believe that in the middle of the day on Tuesday and Wednesday, you could do 3 rides on Steel Vengeance in an hour. I used to be lucky to get a ride in hour an half(I'd usually prefer to wait that long for Maverick, which I like more).
There are a lot of good components to IROC, but certain measures such as locking restraints after gates close, visual safety scans, and physically checking magnetic gates each cycle eats away at load times critical to the ride's capacity. It's certainly possible to maintain efficiency, but never to the level pre-IROC. When the park operated safely for decades without IROC, and Florida parks still operate safely every day without IROC, is it really necessary?
@@sonic-cr3tr If only they had someone who could make a cool capacity and wait time counter that could also be used to easily compare dispatch efficiency to motivate the crews :)
honestly it's kind of embarrassing that Cedar Point is the flagship park of the entire Cedar Fair brand but can barely get competent operations going but just a couple hours down the highway Kings Island has some of the best ops in the entire world. From someone who lived in central Ohio for a while, the vibe used to be that Cedar Point was obviously the better park but you went to Kings Island if you wanted a slightly shorter drive. Now the difference isn't so clear.
I haven't even visted Cedar Point, but Canada's Wonderland probably has better operations than Cedar Point, and they get more visitors compared to Cedar Point. As someone whose home park is Canada's Wonderland, their operations are actually pretty good, and they have to deal with a lot of people coming in the gates.
Kings Island ride ops are super enthusiastic and are really focused on making sure the ride is fun even before you start. Many of the Ops are Enthusiasts too, so if you're wearing coaster gear from another park, they will notice and will comment~ Same with CP I guess, but I've had amazing experiences with KI this year. Hell the Ride ops ask me how my day is going when I'm waiting for the back row (There is usually an Op standing there), CP ops never did that
@@coastaku1954 I work at Knotts at Supreme Scream and a lot of our crew is quick but also really friendly with the guests and we talk to them when we can. It really makes the guests who are waiting long times happy and keeps people chill, it's also just nice to have great guest experiences. Good on them over there for asking how your day is. Nothing against the brick wall Ops but be friendly at least.. people are here to have fun, so make it fun!
@@MrBlonday The Ride ops at CP are also good, but not nearly as personal as KI, hats off to the Ride Ops with the microphone on Millie, they usually always have a bright attitude and really get you psyched to ride, they even tell you to make some noise for the Blue train for example, saying the train runs on noise, that's fun!
totally agree, as i used to be a ride op at KI. on a visit to cedar point i noticed that the employees were nowhere near as excited to be there as kings island employees, even though that they were getting paid WAY more than we were. i think management and morale really needs to improve up there.
I just recently worked on Millennium's ride crew, so this was interesting. One thing that majorly slows down operations today is the ride's seatbelts in addition to the slower lift motor. Today, the ride crew is trained to rigorously check seatbelts for any issues. If a train is dispatched with a crooked seatbelt, even though no actual risk is presented by that issue, the operator will still get counseled and could face major discipline should that happen more than once. This is a problem because it makes working the ride more stressful and rigorous, slowing down operations even more. Not to mention Millennium has an absurd number of "LG" guests, I would say one person gets denied boarding every other train on average. Also as a bonus, if lapbars are unlocked for any reason, the entire train needs to be re-checked as you know from working the ride. Lapbars are frequently unlocked due to LG guests, and seatbelts being trapped under the restraint (or the rider's ass). I don't know if the seatbelts had anything to do with the inefficiencies in 2021/2022, but here in 2024, operations have been slower largely due to issues with seatbelts. How were you trained to deal with seatbelts in 2018? Feel free to reach out to me if you'd like to hear more.
I was at the park on Memorial Day this year, and in the closing hour of the park, we went to try and get one last ride on Millennium Force. We ended up leaving the line within 10 minutes because we only saw one train dispatch. The next train didn't go until we had walked all the way over to the turn around following the lift hill. And then the next didn't go till just before we got on Maverick. That's three trains in the span of 15 minutes. So roughly 5 minute intervals which should just never be happening, especially on a holiday when you can expect the park to be particularly busy. We got two rides on Maverick before we saw another train dispatch.
I was there 2 weeks ago (6/24) and Millennium was far worse than 2018. The slower lift hill speed is very obvious and you end up freaking out a bit more towards the top. Fast pass does solve the line problem... except for Millennium. I basically walked on to every single ride, but M took 15-20 minutes. Still rode it twice (compared to 5x a day in 2018) and it's still the best coaster in the US.
They used to load fast passes from the other side so you came up to the load station instead of the line part where you wait until a few years ago. They really should fix this since you're paying an extra 120 bucks more for the fast pass on top of the actual 45 dollar ticket. Still a great ride though, but I agree on the wait times for fast passes. Though really 10-20 mins isnt a long wait so i feel bad almost complaining lol.
This video is such a coincidence! I was just at Cedar Point last Monday, 20-June, and noticed these slow dispatch times. It was around 3 minutes and the line dragged forever. Much slower than I'm used to. (Cedar Point is my home park but I haven't been out since 2019).
Yeah June 16 and 17 was my first visit to CP. Milly was closed most of the 16th and had bad operations on the 17th. Good to see this confirm my thoughts
Dude fantastic video! Speaking from some very recent experience, Ive been to cedar point both the past 2 Saturdays in a row and after not being at the park since 2019.. I definitely felt the slower dispatch times on millennium vs years previous. This past weekend I witnessed ride opps stopping to engage in conversations rather then sending the ride multiple times. It was abnormal... I'm all for the engaging staff but I'm in line for the coaster, not the jokes by ride opps. Let's keep it going. Also one thing I'd like to add is with the closure for the season of dragster and wicked twister gone I feel its important cedar point keeps ride opps fast. Dragster regurly drew huge crowds and now all those people are busy on the other coasters. Maverick and valravn seem to be taking the brunt of this but with slow opps on millennium it too often has longer lines than in previous years.. I really think cedar point needs another coaster, maybe two depending on what they do with dragster to help take a load off the others. Even if that means removing something like rougaru, iron dragon, or Gemini. Cedar point has a great top 7 (Steel vengeance, Maverick, Millennium, Valravn, Rapter, Gatekeeper and Magnum ) but drastically drops off with iron dragon, rougaru, corkscrew, Gemini, and blue streak which always have significantly less interest and length of lines. I almost feel silly complaining about "only" 7 great coasters but this is cedar point afterall. I feel like they really need to start doing some additions to breathe some new life into the park.
Gemini is a capacity machine. I would be surprised if it didn't have the highest ridership almost every single year. It has a train that's 6 riders less than Magnum, but sends 2 at a time when it's busy. It'd be a really dumb ride to remove to decrease lines elsewhere.
@@frisco557 Gemini can be a rough ride. Specifically the stop. One day circa 2008, I was riding it with my girl. The final brakes stopped the train seemingly in 1ft. The sudden stop gave her some whiplash effect. She promptly started barfing as we rolled into the station. I quickly gave her my hat to barf into but it was too late for the girl sitting ahead of her! When we exited the ride station, my girl realized her shirt was full of puke and shouts to me "Give me your shirt!" As we walked all the way back to the car the park employees reprimanded me for going shirtless but quickly relented after hearing the story. Finally as I'm putting on a clean shirt she says to me "I can't believe the girl in front of us got mad at me!" I'm like "Babe, you threw up on her," LOL!
As a previous Millennium Force ride op, your analysis is spot on. A third contributing factor to slower operations has to do with weather. When it's cooler out, the trip around the circuit takes longer by a few seconds, even further delaying the overall dispatch cycle. And if the train is going slow enough, since the inital magnetic breaks are stationary and the train can sometimes get caught up longer in the break run. I also want to add, in the most recent years, it seems like ride crews have become less a family and more just a job. The closeness of crews in the 90s and 00s we all cared about being the best ride in the park. Additionally, returning employees don't come back as often leaving the current average tenure to be lower than years past.
I remember one year early on in Millennium's life, it was down for an extended time because the lift cable broke. And they had to get another one. From Intamin in Switzerland. Boggled my mind that they didn't have a spare! And I still think it's so cool that a maintenance worker has to press the button at the top of the lift hill every morning, or else the ride won't start! Guaranteed way the ride gets a proper safety check!
We used to go to cedar point a few times a summer. It was cool having it in our backyard, about 2 hours away. We'd meet people who had came from all over the world to go there. And they had some foreign workers that were super hot too.
This is the best Problematic Coasters Video yet! They are always amazing, but man this is excellent. Thanks for the hard work and analysis you do on these. Hopefully, someone at Cedar Point watches this video as my experience has been the same.
This past weekend I visited Kings Island and Cedar Point on consecutive days. It was very noticeable how excellent the operations were at Kings Island, with staff working as quickly as possible. I also heard from others in our group that management were pushing the ops in Orion’s station to meet the ridership targets. The ops on Millennium Force meanwhile were noticeably slow. Since it was my first time at the park, I invested in Fast Land plus. But even after the merge point with the main line, it was still one of the biggest waits of our visit. Not to mention there was no shade from the sun. The lift was also slower than I was expecting, so this video explains why that is. Excellent video as always Ryan.
Having ridden Millennium Force for the first time in AUG '21, I didn't notice the ride crew not hitting the 2 min interval when I was there. I've gone twice this year (and one more time in a couple weeks) and it seemed that it might just be early season woes slowing it down so far. We shall see as the season goes on, I suppose! I've also noticed a lot of staffing issues for non-critical operations this year, which is likely also a big factor as well.
last time at cedar point (aug 2023), they ran 2 trains and launched at a best time of 2 min, sometimes 3, and often longer it was your videos that made me time it. bad form cedar point.
I rode Millennium Force a bunch of times on June 21 through June 23, 2022. The dispatches are unreasonably slow. Watch the energy and body language of the Steel Vengeance and Maverick ride operators, then compare to the Millennium Force operators - the MF operators are lower quality people who don't seem as passionate about their jobs. The other thing happening with MF, and all rides, is obesity. "Larger guests" slowing down rides is a problem, and it will keep getting worse the more we're not allowed to talk about it.
Larger guests are also a problem for Magnum XL-200 from what I hear, and that ride doesn't have a test seat in the cue like the more recent coasters do.
My wife and I rode Millennium Force on opening day! As soon as the park opened we ran to get in line but still queued at the 3 hour point. I never saw a line grow as quickly or as long since. It was amazing to stare at the height and wonder what we were in store for. My wife and I love roller coasters and have never feared any we rode. One the way up the lift hill was the very first time I ever thought, "what in the hell am I doing on this thing!" After exiting the ride I remember being in a complete fog. My brain was still processing what I went through. To this day that one ride is still the most amazing coaster ride I have ever been on. I've ridden Millennium Force many times since then but nothing will ever top the first time. I can't wait until another coaster is developed that gives me that feeling again. I'm 55, hurry up and build it, I don't have forever! 500+ feet for the win!
Lines have been short for me this year as MilleniumForce & Magnum are the coasters I ride most. Today my wait was extended so the red train could be switched out but it was still not too bad. I only go on Sunday Mondays and Tuesdays. Which are usually the least hectic days
So I actually was at the park on June 21st. That day was exceptionally hot. The longest wait time Millennium had was 30 minutes. Towards the evening and beyond that wait time dropped significantly down to 15 minutes or less average. All rides that day were pretty quick to get on and even then too wait times dropped significantly. To how much a hotter day and lower attendance affects ride operations would be more curious. Either way it was awesome to get on most rides that day from average 20 minutes at most to instantly!!!
Cedar Fair employee speaking here. (Valleyfair ride operator and mechanic) Operator morale is incredibly low for Cedar Fair. Most operators are very tired and unenthusiastic. Idk if this applies for Cedar Point, but if it follows the same Cedar Fair IROC procedures. People just aren't as invested in their jobs anymore. There's also an increase in safety procedures. Supervisors will scold you for flubbing up the tiniest of things. Riders and guests probably won't notice this. But the added few minutes of safety checks and inspections add up and slow down the dispatch time of trains. Guests are also getting more entitled and petty. As a former operator and current mechanic. I can't tell you how many times we've had to halt the process to deal with a nagging Karen or an obese rider who won't fit but insists they can fit. As a mechanic, we've been given new instructions and procedures. I can't tell you everything that goes on behind the scenes. But newly optimized, repairs and maintenance techniques require operators to do these extra safety steps. It helps make fixing the coasters much easier. It's not like the old days where a mechanic was paid $10 an hour to bash the side of the coaster train with a sledgehammer. (Yes that was a thing) This is coming from a Valleyfair employee, and I'd assume Cedar Point does things pretty similarly. The changes to capacity are due to new safety laws and mandatory scheduled repairs. Would you rather wait an extra 10 minutes in line and know that you'll absolutely never get a single injury? Or put safety out the window and get to ride much sooner. Also, IROC makes my job as a mechanic much safer. If you ask me. Ride Operators aren't getting paid enough and the morale is too low.
Even though I have never been on Millennium Force, watching videos on this ride I have seen one of the best first drops I have ever seen. That view over the water is amazing.
Story about how militant the CP Ops used to be... my first ever visit was in 2015 and I was so buzzed about finally riding Millennium Force in particular. I went for the front row on my first ride and asked the ride op if he could take my pic since it was my first visit and I was looking forward to MF so much. And he was like "no I can't, we have to send the train." And this was with only a 20-30 min queue. I was shocked.
I was on the 2015 Millennium crew, I remember being told along the lines of “it doesn’t matter if you’re rude or whatever, keep the trains moving” and we absolutely excelled at keeping the trains moving
Why do you think they should have taken your pic? They aren’t there for that silly shit. They’re there to get people on/off, check for safety and keep the ride moving. They don’t need to be distracted by nonsense.
@@katkenobi6765 there's a thing in the amusement / hospitality industry called "guest service" and it's the concept of like... doing little things that help people have a more enjoyable experience. Offering to take someone's picture is a pretty common example of this concept in a theme park setting.
We rode Millennium Force again in May of 2023. We were sat down on the back of the yellow train and personally i found the smoothness gone. This used to be my favorite as Top Thrill was always broke down. I used to be able to ride it over and over again, but not this year. I found it way to rough for those speeds. So did ride Maverick multiple times as it really impresses me with the speed, smoothness, and intensiveness. I love thee Steele Vengeance and Cu does to RMC to make Mean Streak bad a** again, but the airport security sucks even with the Fast Pass+. I found a new love with Orion at Kings Island. Flight of fear was jst a no go for a second round, but Mystic Timbers and the retrofitted Beast....Hell yeah!!!!
Very well done! I love how scientific you were about analyzing the cameras instead of just doing it based on hunches and observations of how fast things were moving on a particular visit. Other than the lift motor slowing things down why do you think this is only impacting Millennium? I have noticed an overall decline post covid in general. Not just with staffing issues, but with overall employee moral. Although I will so far my visits in the 2022 season I have noticed morale improved quite a bit since 2020 and 2021 seasons.
I was on one of those June twenty trains … after a two hour painfully and uncharacteristically slow line through the switchbacks. Thanks you for validating!
Ryan, this video is your masterpiece. And this is coming from a person whose all time favourite coaster is Millie and it pains me to see this. Thank you.
Another factor that is likely leading to worse operations is how "handsy" ride crews can be when loading riders thanks to COVID. Instead of ride attendants helping guest buckle seat beats, they are likely instructed to let guest buckle themselves and avoid unnecessary contact.
i went to the park yesterday; this is not the case... ride hosts at all of the coasters don't care and will just buckle your seatbelt for you, or take over if you're still trying to do it yourself
@@protowave When I worked Millennium in 2004 we weren't allowed to touch the seatbelt or help the guest in any manner. What the Ride Op does at 30:13 would get you an operational, and if you were caught doing it again you'd probably get kicked off the ride crew
I just went to Cedar Point a few weeks ago and got into the queue of Millennium Force just after the first ride was starting around 3-4ish PM. Basically enjoyed a 10 minute queue for the one ride I was most excited to try for the first time lol.
I wouldn't be surprised if Cedar Point intentionally designed slower ride ops to force guest to purchase another ticket to the park to ride all the rides.
I haven't been to Cedar Point since the early 2000's (not too long after Dragster opened) and I'm extremely sad to learn this about the park. I've been wanting to go back for many years (hard to do for me as I now live much further away than I did in the past), but if the operations are this bad at the park and I wouldn't be able to do nearly as many rides as I'd want, I'm starting to think I shouldn't bother going back until things improve.
Its funny, everytime I've been to this part in 2021 and 2020, 11+ times, The longest wait time was Valraven, steel vengence as the 2nd, maverick as the 3rd, and millennium force as the 4th. Thankfully when I went in June of 2022 on a weekend, Millie only had a 30 min wait all-day and it was easy to hit that ride many times in a row. Steel vengeance was about 45-60 mins. Millie though still holds as my personal favorite ride at cedarpoint. Love the speed through-out the entire ride and all the views! I'm glad they keep it running nice and smooth! My longest waiting experience: A train went up the hill earlier in the day and made a loud screaching noise as it rounded the top of the hill. They took it off later on. We got in line later that evening and while waiting they announced "A train is being added" which, takes a hell of a long time to do because they fully cycle all the trains, empty. Well...Guess what? That train they added? Was the screaching train that never got fixed. Right after waiting what was now 20+ mins for the train-adding/cycling process, they go "A train is being removed from the track" and they had to do it all over again. TL;DR wasted almost 40 mins in an attempt to speed-up-the-wait but NOPE bad train xD
Just for fun, I've been tracking Banshee this year at Kings Island when I've gone (around 5 times so far this season). During an hour wait, the average dispatch time was 78 seconds, so around 46 dispatches per hour and 1472 riders per hour. Given that it also has somewhat restrictive seats, fast lane, seatbelts, and close to the same amount of seats, it's crazy to see how much faster those operators work than MF's and how much better that ride was designed for capacity with nearly the same block setup.
Banshee's seats are definitely more generous than Millie's. Not even talking about any larger seats(if it has any, I don't know since I don't need them). I've seen people that couldn't ride Millie, even though they seem like they should be able to. Heck, I only have an inch or 2 of extra seat belt on Millie. That said, I usually find Kings Island's ops way better overall at any ride. It's one of the reasons it's my favorite park even though it's 2 hours further than Cedar Point each way.
I recently discovered this channel and now I have to force myself to stop watching every day. Every time Cedar Point is mentioned it brings back such great memories from my childhood and teen years. I spent my summers with family in Ohio that lived only about an hour away. I didn't get to go every year but it was enough to make it the image I think of when I hear "amusment park". I hope to get back there one day to experience all the changes and familiar sights again.
I always felt the fast lane for Millie was an extremely long wait, but I guess it’s not in my head! I will always adore this ride ofc, but I’m secretly hoping something will change for the better.
Millie and other rides at Cedar Point need fully separated Fast Lane lines, none of this Mixer shit. Every single coaster that has Fast Lane at Kings Island is fully separated, same with Canada's Wonderland, it's what lets me do so much in so little time, meanwhile at Cedar Point, I still have to wait in a 30min line. Maverick is fully separated and so I'm able to marathon the shit out of it, even when the normies line is 1hr+
@@coastaku1954 Yeah the merge points are definitely BS but they don't care, they will tell you waiting 30 minutes is better than waiting a hour and a half.
@@PHILLYCHEESESTEAK26 While that is true and it is an improvement, at other parks, and hell, at other rides in the park, that 1hr 30min wait is a walk-on with proper Fast lane implementation. I don't want to sound spoiled or entitled but I did spend a lot of money on my Platinum All-Season Fast Lane, and it sucks when Raptor, Gatekeeper, Steel Vengeance, Rougarou, Magnum XL-200 and Millennium Force all have "Mixer" Fast Lane systems. Hell at Kings Island, The Beast's Fast Lane line uses part of the Exit, just to ensure it's fully separated, and The Racer uses the Red Side's Ramp, with the regular line using the Blue side's ramp
@@coastaku1954 I absolutely agree, I have Platinum All Season myself and it is absolutely amazing at Kings Island. I get so annoyed at CP meanwhile when the line gets just short enough (not uncommon on SV) that Fast Lane is essentially useless but not a walk on still. It should be walk-ons when CP charges the most out of all the parks for Fast Lane. I will say Raptor's is pretty much fine, the station is right there pretty much. Magnum if they would just sit closer to the station all the time instead of further back to the entrance I'd be fine with that too.
@@PHILLYCHEESESTEAK26 Steel Vengeance Post TSA-ifacation is THE WORST for Fast Lane, that second Security Line should be a Fast Lane Security Line, they could fit both a Normal and a FL line under the Brake Run... but they don't... Also I've never seen Steel Vengeance be a walk on sadly... (Outside of Coaster Campout ERT of course)
I know its not really viewed as a roller coaster, but I would LOVE to see a Problematic Roller Coasters video on Rhino Rally at Busch Gardens Tampa Bay. The ride was very unique and most people don't realize that the water portion of the ride was basically built like a roller coaster. And there is no denying it was problematic 😂
This has been an observation of mine for the last few years. We live nearby and go 20+ times a season for the last 20 years. It seems as though every single ride’s cycle times have slowed DRASTICALLY the last few seasons. Even the kids rides - the level of checks are astonishing. Been traveling to Disney lately as well and seeing the capacity/safety dichotomy is such an insane difference. There’s a padlocked exit gate on the kids bumper cars And the crew has to even check it every cycle on top of all the other individual checks. It’s wild - creates wait times on kiddie rides that have no queue that can be unbearable. I think this observation is spot on - increased safety checks (to likely save money on potential insurance claims) is frustrating for a park that’s had fairly exemplary safety (short of top thrill). Great video!
Great analysis! I was at Cedar Point three weeks ago and I definitely did notice the slow dispatch times on Millennium, but had no idea about the slower lift motor. Something that struck me was that, far more than any other coaster, the ride operators were struggling to get people into the seatbelts. They are very needlessly restrictive on Millennium. IIRC they were shortened at some point but I don't know when. This seemed to be the biggest detractor, and I wouldn't even blame the operators as they were struggling to get at least 1/3rd of all riders buckled and I didn't encounter that anywhere else. In other words, plenty of people that would effortlessly fit in most coasters just barely fit into Millennium's seatbelts. It seems like adding about 3 inches to the seatbelt would solve a lot of issues. Other notes - I found it interesting that you felt that Millennium was running smoother now. It must have been much rougher a few years ago because there was quite a lot of vibration compared to how I remembered it from the 00's. I rode it opening year and remembered it being glass smooth and more forceful. It's still a great ride, but I recall feeling like there wasn't even a track at all. Also, other than Millennium, everything else had great operations and guest service from what I saw.
I thought I was going crazy, had no issues with the restraints a bit ago and had a bit when I went a few days after opening! That definitely makes sense.
even tho you only mentioned it once at the very end (and glad you did at least) but the whole time watching all I kept saying was, pay the employees more. pay them more to care more. that fix everything. the cost of living has only gone up and up and up since 2000. I’m sure Cedar Fair has NOT adjusted employee wage accordingly just as the majority of employers haven’t adjusted wages to be a living wage. Sure, they prob pay more an hour than they did back in 2000 but I guarantee you it hasn’t been raised nearly enough. After 2020, people want higher pay because the pay people got prior to the shutdown was not enough to provide most people with a safety net as though they were working they weren’t being paid enough to save and have an emergency fund in case of…well…like….you know, the whole world shutting down and screwing everyone over. Pay workers more. You’re not getting lazy unmotivated/excited staff ElToroKaren….they are giving Cedar Fair their moneys worth is what they’re given. And with IROC, you have underpaid employees being forced to do more bc IROC does mean they have more protocol to follow if they to keep their job, yet I have no doubt in my mind that despite expecting more from their employees, they’re def not paying them more. The evidence is clear. And to those employees, I say to them, keep operating exactly the way you’re operating bc it’ll ultimately fall on the guests to make any kind of impact as they care about what guests think waaaaaay more than some unhappy staff member that’s replaceable.
Doesn't quite work like that. It would be a better solution to fire anyone not meeting minimum standards. If the company then finds that the talent pool is too shallow to meet minimum standards, they then should raise the wage to attract what they need. If you pay an unmotivated person more for the same job, it is a fool's errand to expect more effort. Wouldn't you agree this approach makes more sense?
They were paying a minimum rate of $20 during the 2020 season. More than any fast food place in the northern Ohio region. Despite exceptionally higher pay, that was one of the worst year returning dispatches, as explained in the video. So I don’t necessarily think you’re correct with how you think it would work.
@@TysenLeib at the same time there's no way in Hell that working like a dervish to maintain ungodly high operation levels is worth it with the money ride ops normally make. They could easily channel that energy into a much, much, much better paying corporate job.
That analysis of iROC was super interesting and unique, loved hearing your take and perspective on it all!! Never would have even thought of that before
We were at CP on Memorial Day weekend. A stated 60-minute wait was 2 Hours and 20 Minutes...with NO breakdowns. We were timing train launches to mitigate our boredom in line, and they routinely were 3+ minutes. Everything covered in this video is spot-on. There were countless things we noticed that ate into the poor ride operations...things we NEVER noticed when riding Steel, Maverick and GateKeeper. It really was frustrating to watch. I'm shocked CP feels this is all acceptable.
This is def a problem across the cedar fair chain, I visited kings dominion last week and the operations were insanely slow, they used very slow loading procedures for every ride. And in the past I would visit and they would roll trains no problem but rides like i305 which basically never have a line suddenly get long lines and they even took off a train for no reason. And the rides seem to break down often, tumbili broke down twice aswell as dominator and i305.
The scary thing about this is that I’ve totally pulled up park webcams before to time their dispatches and judge operations lol. Love it. Amazing technical video as always!
As a former KI ride op under iroc I feel like I noticed some pretty big differences between iroc operations at CP when visiting as opposed to how we were trained. At the same time, I didn't ever think about it being a way for CF to keep their insurance lower... It does make sense.
Could it be that Cedar Point has an unreasonable disdain for Intamin, and hate having to work with them to fix things. Which is even more bad because Intamin is very popular with the public
Intamins are not gonna last long at cedar fair parks, magnum is from a defunct company but it'll be removed after millie. I305 probably won't last beyond 2035 and dragster is gone, people who think otherwise are lying.
I absolutely love these Problematic videos you do. Your knowledge and experience with this subject matter is truly entertaining for me. Thanks ElToroRyan 🤗
This matches my experience of riding Millennium Force several times in 2023. The ride was amazing, and I was able to ride it several times without waiting too long, by riding early in the day or by getting in line immediately after it reopened from a maintenance delay. Nevertheless, the line was very slow-moving. And where the track runs right alongside the wait line, it seemed like we stood there a painfully long time after one train passed, waiting for the next train to pass.
same here! we were able to catch the line right as millennium reopened after maintenance and what looked like a walk on situation turned out to be a painfully long time to get on the ride despite such a short line. however, even with the slow line, it was worth it. it’s definitely one of those rides where you have to get lucky with the queue wait and maintenance periods.
It's all about the money my dude. Slow ops and long lines incentivizes guests to purchase Fast Lane. Fewer dispatches means less wear and tear and lower maintenance costs. Not being able to experience everything in a day incentivizes season pass purchases and multi-day trip. We're in the era of parks squeezing every last dime they can get, and we're not going to see that change for a while. But still... 20 trains an hour!?!? That's worse than Knott's Berry Farm!
You're over-thinking it. It is all about the money, but what that means is understaffing, under-training, and over-working your employees. This means you end up with employees who aren't very good at their jobs, probably don't *want* to be good at their jobs, and end up providing an abysmal guest experience. Then what happens? Your per-cap spending goes down. Cedar Fair's per-cap spending is already pretty bad, and the worse the guest experience gets the worse the per-cap spending will get. As crowd sizes and wait times surge, the people you lose first will be the people actually willing to spend money in the park - the people you lose last are the bargain hunters, like that guy who ate every meal at Six Flags all summer and now uh...six flags doesn't have a meal plan anymore.
@@GerryRR Well understaffing ties into my point though... slower ops are good for the bottom line because it's less spending. I will say that there's a tipping point though, where ops being too slow creates a bad enough experience that people don't want to come back or they leave early. But I totally disagree with you last point. Long lines are a MUCH bigger deterrent to the minority group of hardcore enthusiasts than they are to the GP majority. The passholders are the ones who say "the lines are too long, let's get out of here". GP goes to a theme park expecting to wait in line. And they don't hop around to different theme parks to compare operations and they don't time dispatches. They just get in line.
@@wickedphant0m The park doesn't make money because you stand in line, they make money because you buy a funnel cake or a t-shirt or one of those bubble guns for your kid. And you know when people aren't doing those things? When they're standing around in lines that hardly move having an awful time. I think we're mostly in agreement, we just disagree about how much of an impact overall guest impressions have on their willingness, interest, and ability to spend their money in the park. I think parks with higher guest satisfaction are likely seeing higher per-cap spend as well, because when you had a great day you're much more likely to want to buy everyone matching shirts to remember it.
This was my first coaster ever as soon as I was tall enough to graduate camp snoopy. Yes, I cried the entire way up but now I’m fearless when it comes to coasters.
I'm from Orlando and went to Michigan in 2003. On the way we drove through Ohio so we stopped at Paramounts Kings Island and Cedar Point. Rode Son Of Beast when it still had the loop. Most bad ass coaster I ever been on. When we went to Cedar Point it was just too crowded. Like a 3 hour line for MIllenium Force and we just didn't wanna wait that long. I always regretted not riding it
"I feel like we're operating under our potential, we need to get a team on the case to figure it out" *"We could just wait for el Toro Ryan to make a video about it"* "YOURE A GENIUS"
One thing I noticed on my most recent trip to Cedar Point (June 1-5) was that there were significantly more people than in years past who had issues fitting into the seats. When the ride ops couldn't get the restraints to engage, it would significantly slow down operations. I think all of us packed on a few extra pounds during the pandemic and that is at least one additional factor to take into account. Also, the number of times I saw trains stopped (on all coasters) during that trip because some idiot took out their phone dramatically increased.
“Let’s take an in-depth look at the operations of Millennium Force, something you may not think about on a day to day basis.” I’m so sorry to have failed you, Ryan.
First of all Mr Ryan... I Love your breakdowns and knowledge of these rollercoaster. I'm a big guy which used to could ride the Millennium Force with no problem but I found out that different seats have longer seatbelts. If anyone is overweight and has problems with seatbelts ask one of the attendants which restrains are longer. It helped me few times. Keep up the great work Ryan!! I can't wait for your next review.
Cedar point has a great collection of world class coasters but most of the time a coaster or even two seem to be down. Going to the park and all rides operating is a crapshoot. Plus only the B&M’s seem to have lines that keep moving. Kings Island doesn’t seem to have these problems. 🤷🏼♂️ Cedar point needs a huge B&M giga to help with lines.
Rode it when brand new, 2008, and 2019. In 2019 the line moved unbearably slowly. I thought it was just the fast pass people doing laps on us. Thank you for the illuminating video detailing the other reasons. They better get this awesome ride back up to speed!
Kings Island blows CP out of the water in terms of the overall experience, I was so disappointed last time trying to get on the major rides at CP and finding that not only were the operations slow but everybody just seemed miserable. In contrast, Kings Island was the best experience I've ever had at a park.
I live an hour away from cedar point. They have a massive labor shortage. You should look up the incentives they are offering people to work there... less staff available means reduced capability to run at full capacity. It's all about labor...
If you go to a store and offer to pay a certain amount for something and the owner says "No, it costs more than that" - do you leave saying "nobody wants to sell anything anymore" or "there's a shortage of "? Cedar Fair is offering a certain compensation package for a certain amount of labor, and the people with labor to sell are saying "No, it costs more than that."
Quick Story I feel like sharing: my dad and I would go to Cedar Point once a year. One year we were waiting in line for Millennium, when it started raining. I'd say a little bit more than a sprinkle and it was probably around 7 at night. The line quickly emptied and people were leaving the park. My dad and I waited a couple minutes and realized, the ride was still running! We got on and as we were about to exit the ride, the ride operator said if we wanted to ride again, we could open the gate to get directly back in line to the ride station. There were about 50 of us and we started doing laps on Millennium! My dad and I lost count at around 30 rides for the day. After the first drop we actually started getting BORED of the ride. One of the rider operators kept asking what number we were on as we were about to board the train. One of my favorite memories with my dad.
That’s so awesome bro
That sounds like so much funny and I’m glad for u to get to have the memory with ur dad
Wow that sounds like a lot of fun, I’m exited for my first trip next year
I love when ride operators are cool like that, my dad and I got to ride the Riddler like 9 times at six flags GA because it was close to closing, and they didn't have to keep the line open anymore :)
this is one of the most wholesome comments I have ever seen.
for those of you who are unfamiliar a block zone is a section of track where which only 1 train may occupy, this is how we should ask eachother if we know who eltoro ryan is
Yes
Accurate 👍
This reminded me to get a shirt 🤣
I only know what they are because of playing Planet Coaster.
Soon as we all hear those words we know exactly who we’re talking about. Or just talking about block sections in general whilst at a park hahaha
I actually started as a ride op this year, I don't know what all is changed but if you see how the operators are treated by management now, it might make sense why operating is so slow. I was put on the railroad and even that was a horrible experience. Maybe its always been that way but I dont feel like the management here really has any care or love for the rides. I feel like ops are being fired all too often from their positions Millennium Force is definitely the Lightning McQueen of rollercoasters.
If your interested I heard kings island has a fantastic work environment :)
I feel like a lot of parks have been hit with the unfortunate bad management bug, sorry it’s been hitting y’all too /:
From what I’ve read throughout the years, Management at this park has always been this way.
From what I’ve read throughout the years, Management at this park has always been this way.
@@Readyforit7723 thanks! I've been considering other parks, namely ValleyFair and SF Great America, since they're closer to my home, but I'm not sure. Great America I'm most familiar with but ValleyFair seems nice too. I'm on the fence on whether I want to stay a ride operator or try something in live entertainment
I went to Cedar Point for the first time on June 8th, 9th, and 10th of this year. I grew up watching Travel Channel's Extreme Roller Coasters, and they always talked about Millennium Force . I spent my whole childhood dreaming about that coaster. At 21, I finally got there. I legitimately had tears in my eyes when I got off because it was just as perfect as I imagined. I hope they fix the operations, because Millie is truly something special.
i regret not riding it. the tallest coaster i rode before i went to cedar point was ride of steel at darien lake. a baby coaster compared to cedar point coasters. but it made me feel like a little scared kid again seeing how insane cedar point is. i did ride steel vengeance though. i dont enjoy being really high in the air.
I’ve had so many amazing times on that ride! I love the late night back whip! I can’t stop laughing 😂 I come off with a big smile every time. EVERY SINGLE TIME!
Same, just for me it was at 24, coming all the way from germany. I heard that it was overrated and kinda forceless so I tried to not have too high of an expectation despite it being this legendary all time most wanted for me. I was blown away. It's been my #1 since then among more than 500 coasters I've been on.
Beautiful story. Millie is absolutely amazing. :)
Cedar Point is by far the best amusement park in the country if not world IMHO!
Definitely #1 for extreme thrill rides!
And #1 for roller coasters!
It's very hard to top Cedar Point lol
I got stuck on the lift hill earlier this month when I visited Cedar Point. We were stuck there for about 25 minutes. Apparently one of the seatbelts somehow came undone. This stopped the ride and our train fell backward onto the anti-rollback teeth, which was pretty unsettling. I didn't realize just how steep that lift really is. I had to let my head fall backwards because holding it up started to hurt. It was neat to see the maintenance guy and ride op riding the service elevator to the rider. They were able to unbuckle and buckle that seatbelt again. Then they went back down and about a few minutes later we continued our trip up the lift hill. Gotta say I've never experienced that before on any ride. Pretty nuts!
damn
sounds like an interesting experience... I once got stuck on a rollercoaster called 'the big one' at Blackpool pleasure beach, UK... turns out they'd loaded the 'fast' train that morning... anyway as the train was shooting back into the station the breaks clamped down hard, we came to a very sharp stop but the train over-shot the breaking zone slightly because it was going so fast... of course this made the whole ride shut down and we had to wait 20 mins while they turned it off and re-booted the system... the view from the track was quite nice though and at least it wasn't raining haha
Nope nope nope nope. That long?? I'd have had a panic attack
This happened to a friend of mine. A lady on the ride freaked out and unbuckled her seatbelt on the lift which stopped the ride. They had to wait 40 plus minutes before a cart came up the stairway and they were brought back down one row at a time. He said it was awful and some small kid peed himself. Worse than that, they later saw the same women on steel vengeance! They didn’t even kick her out of the park.
That's definitely not how it works on magnum😂 I accidentally bumped my seatbelt on that ride and unbuckled it on the way up the lift hill. The ride just kept going. Thankfully I got it buckled again right when we got to the top. Especially cuz I almost fly out of that ride even with the seatbelt on!!
The biggest perk of riding Millennium is the high protein snack you are offered when riding in the front car after dusk. I highly recommend wearing your sunglasses even after sunset.
this is so true! 😂
sunglasses & maybe a face mask lol
Man u ain't never lied 😂
I could have used this info yesterday after digging bugs out of my eyeballs.
@@jvc8947rite of passage, glad to have you 😂🤝
I’m glad someone else finally noticed this. While there for coastermania earlier this month, the operations were horrible. It also got stuck at the top of the lift at least 5 or 6 times in a day and a half, one of them during ert on friday night, where the park literally just gave up after an hour of waiting. Keep in mind it was also the only major ride open at this point for the event, but that mess of an ert schedule is a whole different story.
Also on a much minor note, I hate how they have an auto spiel now. One of my favorite things about that ride was how the main operator had to spiel everything out in the time that the cable was getting ready, it just brought so much energy to every dispatch. It just kinda feels lifeless without that now honestly
Some of the dispatch times that Ryan showed in this video was the day of Coastermania (June 2022). That Millennium Force is now down to Maverick/Steel Vengeance capacity levels explains a lot. Cedar Point always used to try for elite operations and it absolutely does not hit the operations levels that Kings Island does.
Seems most parks are getting away from the personal load/unload speeches in favor in automated ones. It’s just so boring by comparison.
Yeah I agree, it’s boring. It seems they usually (not always) have an operator who hypes the crowd in the station in millennium, but when you come back to the exit station it’s always some foreigner who doesn’t say anything to the riders. I want the ride ops to be damn near as excited as I am to ride.
it costs more money to have a well trained crew. also, a great managing strategy, is to manage the staff based on the personality of the employee and using that personality at certain rides/jobs/location in park. seems like the managers at the park are not good managers. again, good managers also cost even more money then regular staff. on average, to pay for a better manager(each manager) can demand up to another, 7k a year more on average. also, a regular staff employee can demand up to another, 2k to 2.5k more a year. adding all of the staff total....having a full great staff can cost a park this size, another, 250k plus more per year. with parks losing so much money during covid......no way do parks want to then add another 250k plus more in wages per year. that 250k plus more per year, after just 5 years, the park could have had more cash on hand for financing a new massive ride or have the cash to out right pay for a smaller ride/kid ride for the park. running a continuous profitable business is so incredibly hard to do.
@@nexpro6118 "after just 5 years, the park could have had more cash on hand for financing a new massive ride" and in that time, ruined its reputation and see a dramatic loss in attendance. Paying an extra $250k for stellar service is absolutely worth it. That's peanuts. Cedar Fair owns 11 parks. Assuming Cedar Point (their flagship park) only gets 1/11th of their overall revenues, they bring in over $163 million annually. With 3 million attendance per year, that's an average price per guest of about $50 (coincidentally, that's their ticket price). Obviously, they make much more on concessions, parking, fast passes, etc. If improved service results in even 5000 people or 0.2% more attendance, that's a profit.
Over that many LIKED this video. This video has received 214,000 views. This video alone may have easily cost Cedar Fair more money in lost attendance than you are suggesting it would take to improve the service.
Think about it this way. People who travel to visit theme parks are going to compare them. And then they will talk about those parks with their friends on communities such as this comment section. When word of mouth gets out that your service staff are slow and unenthusiastic vs another park, people are going to plan to visit the better park. You lose out on customers and the customers you lose out on are likely the most vocal advocates you could wish for, who will now be advocating your competition.
Obviously, it's not worth paying infinity dollars for stellar service. There is a limit. For a company making a net profit of over 268 million (assumed 24 million minimum on this park at my even spread analysis), spending 1% of their net profits to wow guests and improve attendance by even 1% (which would result in 6% more net profit)...
Worked at CP in 21. A lot of it was motivational, a lot of behind the scenes stuff happened that year that made a lot of us unhappy. Plus, we were short staffed and training almost across the board was kinds rushed. A lot of people were also just there for a paycheck and couldnt be bothered to care.
Ahhhhh I’m sorry to hear
I haven’t been to CP since 2019 but pretty much everything I’ve heard from the park since they re-opened post COVID has not been good and it’s not just a problem at Millennium Force. Between operations being much worse than the past, rides down all the time, insane crowds, overselling of fast lanes, and major staffing problems, I honestly might just stay away for a few more years until it all gets sorted out.
COVID has hit staffing everywhere. Quality has probably gone down at most parks. Even the big parks are having trouble.
Disney parks having the most trouble, i wouldnt want to do disney this year because it wouldnt be the rightful experience. Until they get more staffing, bring back some old free amenities, and also just let the crowds of people that waited for 2 years die down....i will wait for disney a few years.
I found that operations at Six Flags New England and Six Flags Great Adventure, operations improved a lot from 2021 to 2022. But I didn't visit any parks in 2019, so I have nothing to compare it to.
That’s how I feel
I figure they lost all the maintenance people and cant hire decent ones. Six flags is about 10-20$ per hour low on pay for a decent electical/controls technician. They just raised their pay to 30$ this year.
I love how you mentioned Corkscrew and its seatbelt conversion that happened back in 2005. I was a ride op on that ride when we got outfitted with the seatbelts overnight after we had a train return to the station with unlocked restraints in one car. It definitely crushed crew morale, and we never managed to hit the same numbers for the rest of the season after than happened. Fun times...
ahhhhh that's no fun. That's cool you worked the ride back then tho!
Unlocked restraints? I suppose they still held somehow or was there no one in that car (luckily)?
@@danmurphy9173 the car was loaded when that happened. With how the physics for the ride are, I don’t think it would be very easy for someone to just fall out, especially if you’re holding on to the handles that are built in to the shoulder restraints. Most of the forces involved on that ride are pushing you into the seat. The only spot that I remember having any negative G forces at all would be the small hill after the first drop and before the first inversion. Not saying that the restraints aren’t important, more that I believe the engineers who designed everything built in multiple levels of safety into the design, and is likely why they didn’t design the ride to have seatbelts from the very beginning.
My home park is Six Flags New England, and they have a similar ride to Millennium Force in Superman The Ride. Other than the layout, the main differences are that it has a chain lift, no unload station, and only 2 trains. The crew this year is excellent. One of my friends is on that crew and told me that he has done up to 34 trains per hour and consistently hits 30. Despite being the park's headlining attraction, it has one of the shortest lines for any of the major coasters. It goes to show just how important good operations are.
Went to that park once and loved Superman
Wow 34 trains an hour, leading to a theoretical capacity of 1224 riders per hour, which is still excellent~
Hopefully they aren't dispatching that fast because they still aren't checking if ppl should ride or are belted in completely like when the disaster happened
By contrast, in the early 2000's when Cedar Point was excellent with operations, I'd go to SFNE and they'd be struggling to get 15-20 dispatches an hour on Superman. It's like things have kind of reversed.
I worked Millennium last summer (summer of 2023), and long story short, the catch car system needs to be completely replaced. The maintenance team changed something in the rides operational software. Previously, you could dispatch trains before the previous train was fully stopped in the waiting area. However, if you tried to do this now, you would get a block check and the train would stop on the lift hill slowly after leaving the station. So, there were times where we would be running extremely smooth and very quickly, however we would still find ourselves standing around waiting for the previous train to enter the waiting area. I remember times where the train was full, all seats were checked, and all clears were given (thumbs up), and the controls operator (sometimes myself) would have to wait for the train. Guests would ask us what we were waiting for. It might have even been more frustrating for us as crew members because we had to deal with people who thought we were just operating slowly.
Really nice analysis Ryan. Unfortunately, I think it all comes down to money for Cedar Fair. Weather that means more money in selling tickets for extra days admission, or more people buying fast lane. They don’t seem to have much financial motivation to increase capacity.
That and also more wear on components for the coasters. Less capacity = less wear and tear and less money spent on new parts.
Well Cedar Fair just made 310 million at the expense of closing Great America. So money should not be an excuse. Great America closes in less than 10 years.
@@jamesm7517 Oh wow I just saw this comment, and thought it wasn't true, but it turns out it was true...... I thought Cedar Fair bought the land and completely own it now, but I guess they still leased the land.
@@TonyKimtheamusementparkfan they bought the land 3 years ago from the city. and they're selling it because they now own it.
wait so what is happening to great america?? is it being sold, and will be an amusement park rin by a different company OR is it going to be something stupid and no more park at all!?!?
I think Covid has seriously affected staffing at the park. They have been clearly understaffed the past couple years, and the staff they do have often isn’t trained well enough. Cedar Point gets so much staff from overseas which can’t be easy right now. It’s certainly more complicated than the staff being “lazy”
I was going to say this issues is likely more due to post covid staffing issues than anything else as this is not just a Cedar Point issue but covers the entire region. As I have heard, they have been having a hard time maintaining minimum staff levels, and the ongoing lack of international student staff due to Covid has not been helping this. This puts management in a bad position. First your running rides understaffed, which keeps the ride open but also lowers your efficiency. Management also needs to take a laxed approach and accept poor performance just to keep enough staff to run at those levels.
20 years from now we will still be blaming lack of customer service and productivity on COVID.
@@RatBürgerSk8 it’s not how guests “have gotten” (they were always like that).
It’s the availability of an option to work on spreadsheets, ordering systems, digital art, design corrections, codewriting, email fielding, schedulewriting, etc while in your robe on your own personal laptop, from the comfort of your own couch, where there’s no busybody middle manager there to look over your shoulder and run up your ass for having a March Madness game on in the background while you work, often for more pay.
Given those sorts of options, why would someone choose to dorm in an unfamiliar city for 4 months, stand in the hot sun, or at best in the stagnant shade, get abused by guests, and run yourself to physical exhaustion trying to pressure those (often obese) guests to get seated and secure their restraints in under 90 seconds over and over and over, for a wage that barely pays the bills, all while a stock price minded upper management throws a fitola about staffing costs and tries to find excuses to fire anyone making better than a poverty wage?
Ride staffing should be an enjoyable job. You’re literally in the business of fun. The way upper management handles this shit is a case study in tightasses taking the fun out of fun.
Six flags is having many of the same issues with staffing. My local park didnt even open their water park this year
@@PiGood I think you could be totally right here. I was there for the last couple of weekends and rides were consistently down, with staff advising windy weather made things too dangerous. But I think the reality is more staff / under-staffed related. A problem effecting virtually everything since covid. Hopefully next year things will look up a little...
I feel this is a good example of how far Cedar Point’s ops have fallen.
In contrast, at Kings Island I frequently see staff on Orion dispatching trains so fast from the station, that the station train hits the lift hill even before the proceeding train hits the brake run. They will almost always be running 3 train ops too, even on slow days with waits < 20min.
Yeah, how is it that the flagship Cedar Fair park can't figure this out, and the other larger Cedar Fair parks have still been better than that of Cedar Point's?
Lots of this is based on our instruction and the new programming of the ride, which almost requires stacking. We’re aware it’s running slower, but it’s much easier on the ride.
@@alexphillips4325 Is it easier on the ride though?
Easier on the crews, probably. You don't have to work at a higher speed consistently. But the ride was designed for a 100 second interval and a motor built and designed to run at the original 600cm/sec shouldn't wear any faster than a motor designed for 450cm/sec. Moreover, stacking a train on the drive tires and then having to restart motion would probably actually put more wear on that tire than just maintaining a constant force in motion. I just don't see there being any feasible improvement in wear and tear operating the ride at this reduced capacity.
Moreover, if there IS an improvement in wear rates this is a cost that Cedar Point used to view as being worth it in order to improve the park experience. And deciding that it isn't still represents a reduction in a focus on guest experience at the park by management.
I'm very skeptical in that claim though. If you're being told it's easier on the ride mechanically I suspect you're being lied to.
Yeah we are going in August and watching diamondbacks cam yeah the ops there at kings are amazingly quick
@@billchief397
And Diamondback has storage bins too.
When I rode Mille back in mid-July 2021, they seemed to be hitting the interval pretty consistently. Mille is actually my dad and brother’s favorite ride at Cedar Point. Keep up the good work mate!
Capacity might be lower but the ride is still awesome
True
I just went there for the first time this year early June. Millennium Force was a fantastic ride but I was quite shocked at the dispatch times. I didn’t even know it’s original capacity, but it was astonishing to see how slow the crew was moving for such a big ride. Very sad to hear it’s gone downhill recently, but I’m not surprised to hear that based on my first experience
I worked Wild Thing at Valleyfair back in the day. No matter how tired or beat up I was, I and most of the team prided ourselves on dispatching as many trains per hour as possible (not to mention Wild Thing's block/computer system is really stupid.) 80% of the time, we only had two loaders who had to check 18 rows each.
When I went back to VF this year I was disgusted by how slow and uncaring the ride crew, team leads, and area *supervisors* were about efficiency. I got the impression they were there to get paid and nothing else.
THANK YOU for calling out slow ride operators. They don't know the time of their life that they're missing out on if only they actually gave a **** about giving other people a good experience.
I worked lame af Wild Thing and I had a blast. I would LOVE the opprotunity to work at one of the world's greatest coasters. #jelly
P.S. Thank you for trashing iRoc & stupid seatbelts!!!
Thank you for the original Queue music, bring back some good childhood memories😩❤️
As a former ride operator at Canada's Wonderland, our team focused a lot on capacity, especially myself. Of course, we operated smaller rides in their kids' section, but still, it was important for us to at least hit the minimum or at least a bit better than what Canada's Wonderland puts those rides at for its operating manual. We would at times hit that number easily, or close to it as possible pretty consistently. And in terms of overall capacity at the park, I would not wait too long in lines that looked really long. Canada's Wonderland was always on their a-game when it came to capacity, especially on their bigger rides like their 3 B&M coasters. Their three B&Ms are capacity monsters, and I don't usually have to wait too long in one section of the line. I'd sometimes get through the line quicker than I anticipate, which shows the dedication of all the ride crews. Canada's Wonderland isn't even Cedar Fair's flagship park, but it still gets more visitors than Cedar Point, and the lines move a lot quicker (at least from my experience). I agree that IROC slows things a lot, and kind of unnecessary to make those standards even stricter than they already were. It's not as bad in kids' areas, but at larger rides, I can understand that those even stricter standards can slow down an already fast dispatch crew. Cedar Point is the flagship Cedar Fair park, and the fact that Cedar Fair still hasn't sorted this all out blows my mind, and should not happen. It's like they just gave up on the park and made it so lifeless.
I'm sorry that ur home park is closing 😔
@@coolboss999 Oh no my home park is Canada's Wonderland, which isn't closing.
@@TonyKimtheamusementparkfan Oh whoops I read that wrong. My bad
@@coolboss999 California’s Great America is closing tho so that’s pretty sad 😢
I feel like parks have realized that people are going to come no matter what. We are long past the days of building more coasters taller, faster, longer, and wilder, adding more thrill rides, and striving for great capacity and operations. The industry has stabilized over the last decade and parks are realizing that spending big bucks on coasters is not going to prove to be a worthy investment. Take Cedar Point for example. When they choose to add a new restaurant over a coaster of any type, there is going to be little to no difference in attendance and ROI.
There is quite a bit of truth to this. I grew up during the golden age of coasters, I was born in 86 and started riding rollercoasters in the early 90s through 2000s. I think about back then, my home park Great Escape got rollercoasters 3 years in a row! They haven't had a "major" coaster added since Canyon Blaster which was a bucket of rust sitting in a field. Six Flags and Cedar Fair are much more concerned with their debt load and it's just a different time in life. Everything is so much more expensive than it used to be. The systems these rides run on are much more advanced. Then you also have employees making much more money than they used to make. Unfortunately I think this is just the way things are going to be, there has been so much consolidation between the major companies and I'm not sure it's been a positive force in amusement parks.
Cedar Point has always been the gold standard of US amusement parks and I like to think they will always be adding major coasters and such but the debt load with Cedar Fair is pretty scary. Never in a million years did I think they would close California Great America. Reminds me so much of Geauga Lake.
This, plus there's been a shift in the amusement industry away from thrill rides and towards immersive experiences. If we see a Coaster Wars 2.0, it's going to be less based on stats and more based on combining ride experience and theming.
True, but cedar point also does need more food services for the crowds
@@SJSmith-vq6wy Absolutely agree. Since CP came out with the drink and food bracelets, people are spending more time eating and drinking to get their money’s worth.
This "they'll come no matter what" mentality is what killed Kmart. Yeah it usually works great for 20 years or so until your stuff gets outdated, the repair bills stack up and your competitors start offering a better experience.
Ryan you totally should set yourself up as an operator consultant (if you aren't already) - let executive team at each park hire you to analyse ops and come up with throughput solutions xx
Loved hearing about the engineering facts of the Millinium. I always wondered why the train sped up as you approached the top of the lift hill. Makes sense. 😁
As someone on the crew in 2005, I'm still amazed we came anywhere near to hitting interval with all of the seatbelt shenanigans we had to deal with.
I’ve heard a few things about the old seatbelt rules. What did you guys have to do in the past?
@@ElToroRyan When the rules first changed in early ‘05, every rider had to be able to pull an inch of visible slack on the belt in order to be able to ride. Problem is there were no visible markings on the belts, and they were all definitely different sizes (including the test seat belt, which to this day I swear was the longest of the bunch). We probably averaged a dozen LG’s an hour that made it to the load platform but couldn’t ride.
@@jdbeltz oh wow. Did you have that rule the entire 05 season? That rule was definitely not in place when I worked Millennium in 2018
@@ElToroRyan it changed to a 1/2 inch at some point, and then by mid-summer they installed new belts with orange lines on them to make it easier to check (we were using two fingers before). Dragster had the same policy. I assume it had something to do with the investigation of the death on Superman at SFNE the year before.
Last year, when I was an attendant on superman at sfne we had a ride night, and I noticed some seatbelts were longer than others. Which seat belts were longer were random, but if you paid attention you could tell which was which by the thread size on the red part of the belt. The shorter ones are all a lighter red with thinner threads and the longer ones were a deeper red, had larger thread size, and a black outer border of stitches.
Just ride it yesterday, ops were definitely slow and ended up waiting about an hour. It DOES ride great though and they still have that banger song playing. A lot of your complaints about the safety procedures remind me of complaints I hear about food safety working in restaurants. The thing to remember is that the procedures aren't really designed to maximize productivity or even compliment it, they exist to be a standard that can shield companies from law suits by standardizing steps that do everything I'm human power to minimize the chances of accidents, and really are the best practices. It's frustrating sometimes, but just like no meal is so good that someone should get sick, no line is so long that it's worth risking another accident. And I know the dragster thing wasn't anyone's fault, but still, that will probably, and should definitely change Cesar points approach for however long they stay open.
this whole ops “lack of motivation” thing is super real. had a similar experience at Busch Gardens recently. Iron Gwazi was dispatching every 300 seconds 🙁
I guess I got lucky with some ops that were really trying to send out trains quickly when I was there. At best iron gwazi was dispatching at about 100 second intervals
Pay them more.
@@mathewflaherty3679 BuT tHaTs CoMmUnIsM
@@SJSmith-vq6wy what's minimum wage from thirty years ago if you account for inflation? How about average upper management wages with inflation from that era compared to now?
People have a hard time adjusting their brains to higher costs requiring higher wages.
Iron Gwazi has a really dumb dispatching system. The ops individually check each seat belt being fastened. Then the restraints are lowered and they have to check again.
Great video. Happy to see others are noticing what I've been noticing and calling it out. I worked there in the early 2000's and Cedar Point operations these days make me want to vomit. The thing that concerns me is the C-Suite might see declines in ridership like this (and many other rides - Gemini is an extreme example) and jumps to the conclusion that people aren't wanting to ride as much so they build restaurants instead, maybe even remove rides. I think things really took a big downward turn when they brought in IROC to do ride training and stopped doing it themselves. Things like standing on dots, not being able to move about to pair up riders, not being able to clear while moving back to position, not being able to skip a slow guest and come back to them, not being able to have two crew members meet in the middle so if one gets stuck with a guest, the other cam check their remaining seart, having to have the unload side totally clear before clearing, "scan", etc are just adding up in a death by 1000 cuts sort of way. Their operations are below average on many rides now and not close to stellar like they used to be.
I disagree with your iROC critique, while it does make some things a bit slower, it does come with a lot of safety and professionalism benefits. it's also too often used as an excuse for slow operations when it's still easily possible to move efficiently with iROC. Regarding staffing, it's really not an issue for the park this season, it definitely was last year, but this year things have been really good. Efficiency is still in the parks blood, this can be seen especially when looking at other rides like Steel Vengeance this season. That being said, there is definitely room to grow as you highlighted in this video. The park sees this too, in fact, there is a large efficiency push in the park that's just getting underway. Currently there is also a Cedar Fair wide ridership challenge going on as well. I think things are definitely looking up for the future!
I’ll have to disagree, I did 4 seasons at the park at the beginning of iROC, the park was already very safe the way it operated before IROC. Each season extra rules were added that didn’t do anything to increase safety, but they did everything to slow things down. It was frustrating seeing everything getting slower each season.
Then I went to work for another park that didn’t have iROC I saw how they operated just as safe, just as professionally, more efficiently, and without all the excessive iROC rules. That’s when I really grew not be a fan of iROC.
I definitely see a lot of rides this past week pushing capacity(big shout outs to Cedar Creek and Blue Streak). It's definitely a huge improvement over what I saw a lot of times last year, where I'd be lucky to find another coaster besides Magnum that wasn't stacking a lot. I still think Cedar Point could do with some cross training at Kings Island. I rarely see rides with slow operation there over the past few years(besides Flight of Fear).
I still can't believe that in the middle of the day on Tuesday and Wednesday, you could do 3 rides on Steel Vengeance in an hour. I used to be lucky to get a ride in hour an half(I'd usually prefer to wait that long for Maverick, which I like more).
There are a lot of good components to IROC, but certain measures such as locking restraints after gates close, visual safety scans, and physically checking magnetic gates each cycle eats away at load times critical to the ride's capacity. It's certainly possible to maintain efficiency, but never to the level pre-IROC. When the park operated safely for decades without IROC, and Florida parks still operate safely every day without IROC, is it really necessary?
@@sonic-cr3tr If only they had someone who could make a cool capacity and wait time counter that could also be used to easily compare dispatch efficiency to motivate the crews :)
@@victorellis8405 Disney did it on Expedition Everest. There are indicator lamp that would blip aggressive if the loading time is over certain period
honestly it's kind of embarrassing that Cedar Point is the flagship park of the entire Cedar Fair brand but can barely get competent operations going but just a couple hours down the highway Kings Island has some of the best ops in the entire world. From someone who lived in central Ohio for a while, the vibe used to be that Cedar Point was obviously the better park but you went to Kings Island if you wanted a slightly shorter drive. Now the difference isn't so clear.
I haven't even visted Cedar Point, but Canada's Wonderland probably has better operations than Cedar Point, and they get more visitors compared to Cedar Point. As someone whose home park is Canada's Wonderland, their operations are actually pretty good, and they have to deal with a lot of people coming in the gates.
Kings Island ride ops are super enthusiastic and are really focused on making sure the ride is fun even before you start. Many of the Ops are Enthusiasts too, so if you're wearing coaster gear from another park, they will notice and will comment~ Same with CP I guess, but I've had amazing experiences with KI this year. Hell the Ride ops ask me how my day is going when I'm waiting for the back row (There is usually an Op standing there), CP ops never did that
@@coastaku1954 I work at Knotts at Supreme Scream and a lot of our crew is quick but also really friendly with the guests and we talk to them when we can. It really makes the guests who are waiting long times happy and keeps people chill, it's also just nice to have great guest experiences. Good on them over there for asking how your day is. Nothing against the brick wall Ops but be friendly at least.. people are here to have fun, so make it fun!
@@MrBlonday The Ride ops at CP are also good, but not nearly as personal as KI, hats off to the Ride Ops with the microphone on Millie, they usually always have a bright attitude and really get you psyched to ride, they even tell you to make some noise for the Blue train for example, saying the train runs on noise, that's fun!
totally agree, as i used to be a ride op at KI. on a visit to cedar point i noticed that the employees were nowhere near as excited to be there as kings island employees, even though that they were getting paid WAY more than we were. i think management and morale really needs to improve up there.
I just recently worked on Millennium's ride crew, so this was interesting. One thing that majorly slows down operations today is the ride's seatbelts in addition to the slower lift motor. Today, the ride crew is trained to rigorously check seatbelts for any issues. If a train is dispatched with a crooked seatbelt, even though no actual risk is presented by that issue, the operator will still get counseled and could face major discipline should that happen more than once.
This is a problem because it makes working the ride more stressful and rigorous, slowing down operations even more. Not to mention Millennium has an absurd number of "LG" guests, I would say one person gets denied boarding every other train on average.
Also as a bonus, if lapbars are unlocked for any reason, the entire train needs to be re-checked as you know from working the ride. Lapbars are frequently unlocked due to LG guests, and seatbelts being trapped under the restraint (or the rider's ass).
I don't know if the seatbelts had anything to do with the inefficiencies in 2021/2022, but here in 2024, operations have been slower largely due to issues with seatbelts.
How were you trained to deal with seatbelts in 2018? Feel free to reach out to me if you'd like to hear more.
I was at the park on Memorial Day this year, and in the closing hour of the park, we went to try and get one last ride on Millennium Force. We ended up leaving the line within 10 minutes because we only saw one train dispatch. The next train didn't go until we had walked all the way over to the turn around following the lift hill. And then the next didn't go till just before we got on Maverick. That's three trains in the span of 15 minutes. So roughly 5 minute intervals which should just never be happening, especially on a holiday when you can expect the park to be particularly busy. We got two rides on Maverick before we saw another train dispatch.
I’ll never forget riding this when it first opened in 2000. Waiting 3 hours was well worth it. Another great video mang! Congrats on 100K!!!!
I was there 2 weeks ago (6/24) and Millennium was far worse than 2018. The slower lift hill speed is very obvious and you end up freaking out a bit more towards the top. Fast pass does solve the line problem... except for Millennium. I basically walked on to every single ride, but M took 15-20 minutes. Still rode it twice (compared to 5x a day in 2018) and it's still the best coaster in the US.
They used to load fast passes from the other side so you came up to the load station instead of the line part where you wait until a few years ago. They really should fix this since you're paying an extra 120 bucks more for the fast pass on top of the actual 45 dollar ticket. Still a great ride though, but I agree on the wait times for fast passes. Though really 10-20 mins isnt a long wait so i feel bad almost complaining lol.
@@viciousxkobain took me 35 minutes to get the front row on a Sunday last month - with Fast Lane. As a result I only rode it once on my entire trip
Yoooooo wtf Jrgo doing watch Ryan, that's crazy
This video is such a coincidence! I was just at Cedar Point last Monday, 20-June, and noticed these slow dispatch times. It was around 3 minutes and the line dragged forever. Much slower than I'm used to. (Cedar Point is my home park but I haven't been out since 2019).
Yeah June 16 and 17 was my first visit to CP. Milly was closed most of the 16th and had bad operations on the 17th. Good to see this confirm my thoughts
Also, I was at cedar point on June 20th and that it was my first time there
how busy was the park overall when you went? I want to go sometime soon but I'm not sure how busy it'll be and don't want to go if its extremely busy
Dude fantastic video! Speaking from some very recent experience, Ive been to cedar point both the past 2 Saturdays in a row and after not being at the park since 2019.. I definitely felt the slower dispatch times on millennium vs years previous. This past weekend I witnessed ride opps stopping to engage in conversations rather then sending the ride multiple times. It was abnormal... I'm all for the engaging staff but I'm in line for the coaster, not the jokes by ride opps. Let's keep it going. Also one thing I'd like to add is with the closure for the season of dragster and wicked twister gone I feel its important cedar point keeps ride opps fast. Dragster regurly drew huge crowds and now all those people are busy on the other coasters. Maverick and valravn seem to be taking the brunt of this but with slow opps on millennium it too often has longer lines than in previous years..
I really think cedar point needs another coaster, maybe two depending on what they do with dragster to help take a load off the others. Even if that means removing something like rougaru, iron dragon, or Gemini. Cedar point has a great top 7 (Steel vengeance, Maverick, Millennium, Valravn, Rapter, Gatekeeper and Magnum ) but drastically drops off with iron dragon, rougaru, corkscrew, Gemini, and blue streak which always have significantly less interest and length of lines. I almost feel silly complaining about "only" 7 great coasters but this is cedar point afterall. I feel like they really need to start doing some additions to breathe some new life into the park.
Exactly. Stop removing rides and replacing them with restaurants! Witches' Wheel was bad enough, but Wicked Twister is just too much to take.
Gemini is a capacity machine. I would be surprised if it didn't have the highest ridership almost every single year. It has a train that's 6 riders less than Magnum, but sends 2 at a time when it's busy.
It'd be a really dumb ride to remove to decrease lines elsewhere.
@@frisco557 Gemini can be a rough ride. Specifically the stop. One day circa 2008, I was riding it with my girl. The final brakes stopped the train seemingly in 1ft. The sudden stop gave her some whiplash effect. She promptly started barfing as we rolled into the station. I quickly gave her my hat to barf into but it was too late for the girl sitting ahead of her! When we exited the ride station, my girl realized her shirt was full of puke and shouts to me "Give me your shirt!" As we walked all the way back to the car the park employees reprimanded me for going shirtless but quickly relented after hearing the story. Finally as I'm putting on a clean shirt she says to me "I can't believe the girl in front of us got mad at me!" I'm like "Babe, you threw up on her," LOL!
Now that you mention it, yeah, wait time has definitely gotten worse since 2014. Not entirely ride ops fault; stoppages have been more frequent.
As a previous Millennium Force ride op, your analysis is spot on. A third contributing factor to slower operations has to do with weather. When it's cooler out, the trip around the circuit takes longer by a few seconds, even further delaying the overall dispatch cycle. And if the train is going slow enough, since the inital magnetic breaks are stationary and the train can sometimes get caught up longer in the break run.
I also want to add, in the most recent years, it seems like ride crews have become less a family and more just a job. The closeness of crews in the 90s and 00s we all cared about being the best ride in the park. Additionally, returning employees don't come back as often leaving the current average tenure to be lower than years past.
I remember one year early on in Millennium's life, it was down for an extended time because the lift cable broke. And they had to get another one. From Intamin in Switzerland. Boggled my mind that they didn't have a spare! And I still think it's so cool that a maintenance worker has to press the button at the top of the lift hill every morning, or else the ride won't start! Guaranteed way the ride gets a proper safety check!
We used to go to cedar point a few times a summer. It was cool having it in our backyard, about 2 hours away. We'd meet people who had came from all over the world to go there. And they had some foreign workers that were super hot too.
This is the best Problematic Coasters Video yet! They are always amazing, but man this is excellent. Thanks for the hard work and analysis you do on these. Hopefully, someone at Cedar Point watches this video as my experience has been the same.
This past weekend I visited Kings Island and Cedar Point on consecutive days. It was very noticeable how excellent the operations were at Kings Island, with staff working as quickly as possible. I also heard from others in our group that management were pushing the ops in Orion’s station to meet the ridership targets.
The ops on Millennium Force meanwhile were noticeably slow. Since it was my first time at the park, I invested in Fast Land plus. But even after the merge point with the main line, it was still one of the biggest waits of our visit. Not to mention there was no shade from the sun.
The lift was also slower than I was expecting, so this video explains why that is.
Excellent video as always Ryan.
i think they prioritized staff towards kings island this year as they have been doing alot of gutting of attractions at CP this year
Having ridden Millennium Force for the first time in AUG '21, I didn't notice the ride crew not hitting the 2 min interval when I was there. I've gone twice this year (and one more time in a couple weeks) and it seemed that it might just be early season woes slowing it down so far. We shall see as the season goes on, I suppose! I've also noticed a lot of staffing issues for non-critical operations this year, which is likely also a big factor as well.
last time at cedar point (aug 2023), they ran 2 trains and launched at a best time of 2 min, sometimes 3, and often longer
it was your videos that made me time it.
bad form cedar point.
I rode Millennium Force a bunch of times on June 21 through June 23, 2022. The dispatches are unreasonably slow. Watch the energy and body language of the Steel Vengeance and Maverick ride operators, then compare to the Millennium Force operators - the MF operators are lower quality people who don't seem as passionate about their jobs. The other thing happening with MF, and all rides, is obesity. "Larger guests" slowing down rides is a problem, and it will keep getting worse the more we're not allowed to talk about it.
Larger guests are also a problem for Magnum XL-200 from what I hear, and that ride doesn't have a test seat in the cue like the more recent coasters do.
@@JCBro-yg8vd I rarely see guests not able to ride Magnum. Cedar Creek on the other hand.....
@@frisco557 I guess it's because those coasters aren't as popular as Millennium, Maverick or Steel Vengence, so they tend to not be as crowded.
My wife and I rode Millennium Force on opening day! As soon as the park opened we ran to get in line but still queued at the 3 hour point. I never saw a line grow as quickly or as long since. It was amazing to stare at the height and wonder what we were in store for. My wife and I love roller coasters and have never feared any we rode. One the way up the lift hill was the very first time I ever thought, "what in the hell am I doing on this thing!" After exiting the ride I remember being in a complete fog. My brain was still processing what I went through. To this day that one ride is still the most amazing coaster ride I have ever been on. I've ridden Millennium Force many times since then but nothing will ever top the first time. I can't wait until another coaster is developed that gives me that feeling again. I'm 55, hurry up and build it, I don't have forever! 500+ feet for the win!
Lines have been short for me this year as MilleniumForce & Magnum are the coasters I ride most. Today my wait was extended so the red train could be switched out but it was still not too bad. I only go on Sunday Mondays and Tuesdays. Which are usually the least hectic days
I don’t really have the stomach for roller coasters but I’m absolutely fascinated with how they operate. I’ve learned so much from this channel.
So I actually was at the park on June 21st. That day was exceptionally hot. The longest wait time Millennium had was 30 minutes. Towards the evening and beyond that wait time dropped significantly down to 15 minutes or less average. All rides that day were pretty quick to get on and even then too wait times dropped significantly. To how much a hotter day and lower attendance affects ride operations would be more curious. Either way it was awesome to get on most rides that day from average 20 minutes at most to instantly!!!
Cedar Fair employee speaking here. (Valleyfair ride operator and mechanic)
Operator morale is incredibly low for Cedar Fair.
Most operators are very tired and unenthusiastic. Idk if this applies for Cedar Point, but if it follows the same Cedar Fair IROC procedures. People just aren't as invested in their jobs anymore. There's also an increase in safety procedures. Supervisors will scold you for flubbing up the tiniest of things.
Riders and guests probably won't notice this. But the added few minutes of safety checks and inspections add up and slow down the dispatch time of trains.
Guests are also getting more entitled and petty. As a former operator and current mechanic. I can't tell you how many times we've had to halt the process to deal with a nagging Karen or an obese rider who won't fit but insists they can fit.
As a mechanic, we've been given new instructions and procedures. I can't tell you everything that goes on behind the scenes. But newly optimized, repairs and maintenance techniques require operators to do these extra safety steps. It helps make fixing the coasters much easier. It's not like the old days where a mechanic was paid $10 an hour to bash the side of the coaster train with a sledgehammer. (Yes that was a thing)
This is coming from a Valleyfair employee, and I'd assume Cedar Point does things pretty similarly.
The changes to capacity are due to new safety laws and mandatory scheduled repairs.
Would you rather wait an extra 10 minutes in line and know that you'll absolutely never get a single injury?
Or put safety out the window and get to ride much sooner.
Also, IROC makes my job as a mechanic much safer.
If you ask me. Ride Operators aren't getting paid enough and the morale is too low.
Next you should do Steel Phantom at Kennywood. That was most certainly problematic.
Do u mean Steel Curtain or Phantom’s Revenge?
@@haydfors Steel Phantom was the name of Phantom's Revenge before they refurbished and changed some of the track ^^
@@haydfors the Original Steel Phantom that operated from 1991-2000. It was converted into Phantoms Revenge in 2001.
Even though I have never been on Millennium Force, watching videos on this ride I have seen one of the best first drops I have ever seen. That view over the water is amazing.
Story about how militant the CP Ops used to be... my first ever visit was in 2015 and I was so buzzed about finally riding Millennium Force in particular. I went for the front row on my first ride and asked the ride op if he could take my pic since it was my first visit and I was looking forward to MF so much. And he was like "no I can't, we have to send the train." And this was with only a 20-30 min queue. I was shocked.
I was on the 2015 Millennium crew, I remember being told along the lines of “it doesn’t matter if you’re rude or whatever, keep the trains moving” and we absolutely excelled at keeping the trains moving
Why do you think they should have taken your pic? They aren’t there for that silly shit. They’re there to get people on/off, check for safety and keep the ride moving. They don’t need to be distracted by nonsense.
@@katkenobi6765 there's a thing in the amusement / hospitality industry called "guest service" and it's the concept of like... doing little things that help people have a more enjoyable experience. Offering to take someone's picture is a pretty common example of this concept in a theme park setting.
We rode Millennium Force again in May of 2023. We were sat down on the back of the yellow train and personally i found the smoothness gone. This used to be my favorite as Top Thrill was always broke down. I used to be able to ride it over and over again, but not this year. I found it way to rough for those speeds. So did ride Maverick multiple times as it really impresses me with the speed, smoothness, and intensiveness. I love thee Steele Vengeance and Cu does to RMC to make Mean Streak bad a** again, but the airport security sucks even with the Fast Pass+. I found a new love with Orion at Kings Island. Flight of fear was jst a no go for a second round, but Mystic Timbers and the retrofitted Beast....Hell yeah!!!!
Very well done! I love how scientific you were about analyzing the cameras instead of just doing it based on hunches and observations of how fast things were moving on a particular visit. Other than the lift motor slowing things down why do you think this is only impacting Millennium? I have noticed an overall decline post covid in general. Not just with staffing issues, but with overall employee moral. Although I will so far my visits in the 2022 season I have noticed morale improved quite a bit since 2020 and 2021 seasons.
I have to say Millie operators are some of the nicest operators I’ve ever met.
Man I love these nerd videos about capacity! Operations should def be highlighted more when talking about parks in general.
I was on one of those June twenty trains … after a two hour painfully and uncharacteristically slow line through the switchbacks. Thanks you for validating!
It was confirmed at the 2024 coastermania Q&A that Millennium Force is getting a new controller and lift motor for the 2025 season!
Ryan, this video is your masterpiece. And this is coming from a person whose all time favourite coaster is Millie and it pains me to see this. Thank you.
Also I rode Millie yesterday, thing was hauling
Another factor that is likely leading to worse operations is how "handsy" ride crews can be when loading riders thanks to COVID. Instead of ride attendants helping guest buckle seat beats, they are likely instructed to let guest buckle themselves and avoid unnecessary contact.
i went to the park yesterday; this is not the case... ride hosts at all of the coasters don't care and will just buckle your seatbelt for you, or take over if you're still trying to do it yourself
@@protowave When I worked Millennium in 2004 we weren't allowed to touch the seatbelt or help the guest in any manner. What the Ride Op does at 30:13 would get you an operational, and if you were caught doing it again you'd probably get kicked off the ride crew
I just went to Cedar Point a few weeks ago and got into the queue of Millennium Force just after the first ride was starting around 3-4ish PM. Basically enjoyed a 10 minute queue for the one ride I was most excited to try for the first time lol.
Blockzones within the first three minutes???? Oh boy, this is gonna be so good
I wouldn't be surprised if Cedar Point intentionally designed slower ride ops to force guest to purchase another ticket to the park to ride all the rides.
I haven't been to Cedar Point since the early 2000's (not too long after Dragster opened) and I'm extremely sad to learn this about the park. I've been wanting to go back for many years (hard to do for me as I now live much further away than I did in the past), but if the operations are this bad at the park and I wouldn't be able to do nearly as many rides as I'd want, I'm starting to think I shouldn't bother going back until things improve.
It is an amazing park still. Try to go at a time when it is not that busy, take multiple days and think about buying fast lane.
Its funny, everytime I've been to this part in 2021 and 2020, 11+ times, The longest wait time was Valraven, steel vengence as the 2nd, maverick as the 3rd, and millennium force as the 4th. Thankfully when I went in June of 2022 on a weekend, Millie only had a 30 min wait all-day and it was easy to hit that ride many times in a row. Steel vengeance was about 45-60 mins. Millie though still holds as my personal favorite ride at cedarpoint. Love the speed through-out the entire ride and all the views! I'm glad they keep it running nice and smooth!
My longest waiting experience: A train went up the hill earlier in the day and made a loud screaching noise as it rounded the top of the hill. They took it off later on. We got in line later that evening and while waiting they announced "A train is being added" which, takes a hell of a long time to do because they fully cycle all the trains, empty. Well...Guess what? That train they added? Was the screaching train that never got fixed. Right after waiting what was now 20+ mins for the train-adding/cycling process, they go "A train is being removed from the track" and they had to do it all over again. TL;DR wasted almost 40 mins in an attempt to speed-up-the-wait but NOPE bad train xD
Just for fun, I've been tracking Banshee this year at Kings Island when I've gone (around 5 times so far this season). During an hour wait, the average dispatch time was 78 seconds, so around 46 dispatches per hour and 1472 riders per hour. Given that it also has somewhat restrictive seats, fast lane, seatbelts, and close to the same amount of seats, it's crazy to see how much faster those operators work than MF's and how much better that ride was designed for capacity with nearly the same block setup.
Couldn’t agree more
Banshee's seats are definitely more generous than Millie's. Not even talking about any larger seats(if it has any, I don't know since I don't need them). I've seen people that couldn't ride Millie, even though they seem like they should be able to. Heck, I only have an inch or 2 of extra seat belt on Millie.
That said, I usually find Kings Island's ops way better overall at any ride. It's one of the reasons it's my favorite park even though it's 2 hours further than Cedar Point each way.
I recently discovered this channel and now I have to force myself to stop watching every day. Every time Cedar Point is mentioned it brings back such great memories from my childhood and teen years. I spent my summers with family in Ohio that lived only about an hour away. I didn't get to go every year but it was enough to make it the image I think of when I hear "amusment park". I hope to get back there one day to experience all the changes and familiar sights again.
I always felt the fast lane for Millie was an extremely long wait, but I guess it’s not in my head!
I will always adore this ride ofc, but I’m secretly hoping something will change for the better.
Millie and other rides at Cedar Point need fully separated Fast Lane lines, none of this Mixer shit. Every single coaster that has Fast Lane at Kings Island is fully separated, same with Canada's Wonderland, it's what lets me do so much in so little time, meanwhile at Cedar Point, I still have to wait in a 30min line. Maverick is fully separated and so I'm able to marathon the shit out of it, even when the normies line is 1hr+
@@coastaku1954 Yeah the merge points are definitely BS but they don't care, they will tell you waiting 30 minutes is better than waiting a hour and a half.
@@PHILLYCHEESESTEAK26 While that is true and it is an improvement, at other parks, and hell, at other rides in the park, that 1hr 30min wait is a walk-on with proper Fast lane implementation. I don't want to sound spoiled or entitled but I did spend a lot of money on my Platinum All-Season Fast Lane, and it sucks when Raptor, Gatekeeper, Steel Vengeance, Rougarou, Magnum XL-200 and Millennium Force all have "Mixer" Fast Lane systems. Hell at Kings Island, The Beast's Fast Lane line uses part of the Exit, just to ensure it's fully separated, and The Racer uses the Red Side's Ramp, with the regular line using the Blue side's ramp
@@coastaku1954 I absolutely agree, I have Platinum All Season myself and it is absolutely amazing at Kings Island. I get so annoyed at CP meanwhile when the line gets just short enough (not uncommon on SV) that Fast Lane is essentially useless but not a walk on still. It should be walk-ons when CP charges the most out of all the parks for Fast Lane. I will say Raptor's is pretty much fine, the station is right there pretty much. Magnum if they would just sit closer to the station all the time instead of further back to the entrance I'd be fine with that too.
@@PHILLYCHEESESTEAK26 Steel Vengeance Post TSA-ifacation is THE WORST for Fast Lane, that second Security Line should be a Fast Lane Security Line, they could fit both a Normal and a FL line under the Brake Run... but they don't... Also I've never seen Steel Vengeance be a walk on sadly... (Outside of Coaster Campout ERT of course)
I know its not really viewed as a roller coaster, but I would LOVE to see a Problematic Roller Coasters video on Rhino Rally at Busch Gardens Tampa Bay. The ride was very unique and most people don't realize that the water portion of the ride was basically built like a roller coaster. And there is no denying it was problematic 😂
This has been an observation of mine for the last few years. We live nearby and go 20+ times a season for the last 20 years. It seems as though every single ride’s cycle times have slowed DRASTICALLY the last few seasons. Even the kids rides - the level of checks are astonishing. Been traveling to Disney lately as well and seeing the capacity/safety dichotomy is such an insane difference. There’s a padlocked exit gate on the kids bumper cars And the crew has to even check it every cycle on top of all the other individual checks. It’s wild - creates wait times on kiddie rides that have no queue that can be unbearable. I think this observation is spot on - increased safety checks (to likely save money on potential insurance claims) is frustrating for a park that’s had fairly exemplary safety (short of top thrill). Great video!
Great analysis! I was at Cedar Point three weeks ago and I definitely did notice the slow dispatch times on Millennium, but had no idea about the slower lift motor. Something that struck me was that, far more than any other coaster, the ride operators were struggling to get people into the seatbelts. They are very needlessly restrictive on Millennium. IIRC they were shortened at some point but I don't know when. This seemed to be the biggest detractor, and I wouldn't even blame the operators as they were struggling to get at least 1/3rd of all riders buckled and I didn't encounter that anywhere else. In other words, plenty of people that would effortlessly fit in most coasters just barely fit into Millennium's seatbelts. It seems like adding about 3 inches to the seatbelt would solve a lot of issues.
Other notes - I found it interesting that you felt that Millennium was running smoother now. It must have been much rougher a few years ago because there was quite a lot of vibration compared to how I remembered it from the 00's. I rode it opening year and remembered it being glass smooth and more forceful. It's still a great ride, but I recall feeling like there wasn't even a track at all.
Also, other than Millennium, everything else had great operations and guest service from what I saw.
I thought I was going crazy, had no issues with the restraints a bit ago and had a bit when I went a few days after opening! That definitely makes sense.
I was wondering if I was imagining the seatbelt thing. It seems so weird that they would shorten it???
even tho you only mentioned it once at the very end (and glad you did at least) but the whole time watching all I kept saying was, pay the employees more. pay them more to care more. that fix everything. the cost of living has only gone up and up and up since 2000. I’m sure Cedar Fair has NOT adjusted employee wage accordingly just as the majority of employers haven’t adjusted wages to be a living wage. Sure, they prob pay more an hour than they did back in 2000 but I guarantee you it hasn’t been raised nearly enough. After 2020, people want higher pay because the pay people got prior to the shutdown was not enough to provide most people with a safety net as though they were working they weren’t being paid enough to save and have an emergency fund in case of…well…like….you know, the whole world shutting down and screwing everyone over.
Pay workers more. You’re not getting lazy unmotivated/excited staff ElToroKaren….they are giving Cedar Fair their moneys worth is what they’re given. And with IROC, you have underpaid employees being forced to do more bc IROC does mean they have more protocol to follow if they to keep their job, yet I have no doubt in my mind that despite expecting more from their employees, they’re def not paying them more. The evidence is clear. And to those employees, I say to them, keep operating exactly the way you’re operating bc it’ll ultimately fall on the guests to make any kind of impact as they care about what guests think waaaaaay more than some unhappy staff member that’s replaceable.
Doesn't quite work like that. It would be a better solution to fire anyone not meeting minimum standards. If the company then finds that the talent pool is too shallow to meet minimum standards, they then should raise the wage to attract what they need. If you pay an unmotivated person more for the same job, it is a fool's errand to expect more effort. Wouldn't you agree this approach makes more sense?
super true
They were paying a minimum rate of $20 during the 2020 season. More than any fast food place in the northern Ohio region. Despite exceptionally higher pay, that was one of the worst year returning dispatches, as explained in the video. So I don’t necessarily think you’re correct with how you think it would work.
@@TysenLeib at the same time there's no way in Hell that working like a dervish to maintain ungodly high operation levels is worth it with the money ride ops normally make. They could easily channel that energy into a much, much, much better paying corporate job.
why pay more for spooks who are lazy
I never thought MF was a great ride. It's fast, yet uninteresting. But...the greatest first drop you'll ever experience.
That analysis of iROC was super interesting and unique, loved hearing your take and perspective on it all!! Never would have even thought of that before
We were at CP on Memorial Day weekend. A stated 60-minute wait was 2 Hours and 20 Minutes...with NO breakdowns. We were timing train launches to mitigate our boredom in line, and they routinely were 3+ minutes. Everything covered in this video is spot-on. There were countless things we noticed that ate into the poor ride operations...things we NEVER noticed when riding Steel, Maverick and GateKeeper. It really was frustrating to watch. I'm shocked CP feels this is all acceptable.
This is def a problem across the cedar fair chain, I visited kings dominion last week and the operations were insanely slow, they used very slow loading procedures for every ride. And in the past I would visit and they would roll trains no problem but rides like i305 which basically never have a line suddenly get long lines and they even took off a train for no reason. And the rides seem to break down often, tumbili broke down twice aswell as dominator and i305.
It's not a problem at Kings Island.
The scary thing about this is that I’ve totally pulled up park webcams before to time their dispatches and judge operations lol. Love it. Amazing technical video as always!
For the one and possibly only time in my life Ryan uploads a Cedar Point video on the same day I'm actually at the Point.
As a former KI ride op under iroc I feel like I noticed some pretty big differences between iroc operations at CP when visiting as opposed to how we were trained. At the same time, I didn't ever think about it being a way for CF to keep their insurance lower... It does make sense.
Could it be that Cedar Point has an unreasonable disdain for Intamin, and hate having to work with them to fix things. Which is even more bad because Intamin is very popular with the public
I think this is why they took out Wicked Twister. One less Intamin ride to deal with. Shame, too, because it was a great ride.
Nah, they were just got out from money
Latest news is that CF already sells CGA for 300m over 9 years
@@bocahdongo7769 Huh? Cedar Fair isn't selling CGA
@@coastaku1954 yes they are. Breaking news todag
Intamins are not gonna last long at cedar fair parks, magnum is from a defunct company but it'll be removed after millie. I305 probably won't last beyond 2035 and dragster is gone, people who think otherwise are lying.
Has anyone notices the sussy shape of the coasterl layout 😂😂😂 3:17
2:39 wow that might be the fastest he's ever mentioned it
I absolutely love these Problematic videos you do. Your knowledge and experience with this subject matter is truly entertaining for me. Thanks ElToroRyan 🤗
babe wake up, etr posted a new problematic coasters video
This matches my experience of riding Millennium Force several times in 2023. The ride was amazing, and I was able to ride it several times without waiting too long, by riding early in the day or by getting in line immediately after it reopened from a maintenance delay. Nevertheless, the line was very slow-moving. And where the track runs right alongside the wait line, it seemed like we stood there a painfully long time after one train passed, waiting for the next train to pass.
same here! we were able to catch the line right as millennium reopened after maintenance and what looked like a walk on situation turned out to be a painfully long time to get on the ride despite such a short line. however, even with the slow line, it was worth it. it’s definitely one of those rides where you have to get lucky with the queue wait and maintenance periods.
It's all about the money my dude. Slow ops and long lines incentivizes guests to purchase Fast Lane. Fewer dispatches means less wear and tear and lower maintenance costs. Not being able to experience everything in a day incentivizes season pass purchases and multi-day trip. We're in the era of parks squeezing every last dime they can get, and we're not going to see that change for a while.
But still... 20 trains an hour!?!? That's worse than Knott's Berry Farm!
You're over-thinking it. It is all about the money, but what that means is understaffing, under-training, and over-working your employees. This means you end up with employees who aren't very good at their jobs, probably don't *want* to be good at their jobs, and end up providing an abysmal guest experience. Then what happens? Your per-cap spending goes down. Cedar Fair's per-cap spending is already pretty bad, and the worse the guest experience gets the worse the per-cap spending will get. As crowd sizes and wait times surge, the people you lose first will be the people actually willing to spend money in the park - the people you lose last are the bargain hunters, like that guy who ate every meal at Six Flags all summer and now uh...six flags doesn't have a meal plan anymore.
@@GerryRR Well understaffing ties into my point though... slower ops are good for the bottom line because it's less spending. I will say that there's a tipping point though, where ops being too slow creates a bad enough experience that people don't want to come back or they leave early.
But I totally disagree with you last point. Long lines are a MUCH bigger deterrent to the minority group of hardcore enthusiasts than they are to the GP majority. The passholders are the ones who say "the lines are too long, let's get out of here". GP goes to a theme park expecting to wait in line. And they don't hop around to different theme parks to compare operations and they don't time dispatches. They just get in line.
@@wickedphant0m The park doesn't make money because you stand in line, they make money because you buy a funnel cake or a t-shirt or one of those bubble guns for your kid. And you know when people aren't doing those things? When they're standing around in lines that hardly move having an awful time. I think we're mostly in agreement, we just disagree about how much of an impact overall guest impressions have on their willingness, interest, and ability to spend their money in the park. I think parks with higher guest satisfaction are likely seeing higher per-cap spend as well, because when you had a great day you're much more likely to want to buy everyone matching shirts to remember it.
This was my first coaster ever as soon as I was tall enough to graduate camp snoopy. Yes, I cried the entire way up but now I’m fearless when it comes to coasters.
I'm from Orlando and went to Michigan in 2003. On the way we drove through Ohio so we stopped at Paramounts Kings Island and Cedar Point. Rode Son Of Beast when it still had the loop. Most bad ass coaster I ever been on. When we went to Cedar Point it was just too crowded. Like a 3 hour line for MIllenium Force and we just didn't wanna wait that long. I always regretted not riding it
"I feel like we're operating under our potential, we need to get a team on the case to figure it out"
*"We could just wait for el Toro Ryan to make a video about it"*
"YOURE A GENIUS"
Quick! Someone study the webcams for the next week, to see if the dispatches suddenly increase after this video hahaha
One thing I noticed on my most recent trip to Cedar Point (June 1-5) was that there were significantly more people than in years past who had issues fitting into the seats. When the ride ops couldn't get the restraints to engage, it would significantly slow down operations. I think all of us packed on a few extra pounds during the pandemic and that is at least one additional factor to take into account. Also, the number of times I saw trains stopped (on all coasters) during that trip because some idiot took out their phone dramatically increased.
“Let’s take an in-depth look at the operations of Millennium Force, something you may not think about on a day to day basis.” I’m so sorry to have failed you, Ryan.
First of all Mr Ryan... I Love your breakdowns and knowledge of these rollercoaster. I'm a big guy which used to could ride the Millennium Force with no problem but I found out that different seats have longer seatbelts. If anyone is overweight and has problems with seatbelts ask one of the attendants which restrains are longer. It helped me few times. Keep up the great work Ryan!! I can't wait for your next review.
Cedar point has a great collection of world class coasters but most of the time a coaster or even two seem to be down. Going to the park and all rides operating is a crapshoot. Plus only the B&M’s seem to have lines that keep moving. Kings Island doesn’t seem to have these problems. 🤷🏼♂️ Cedar point needs a huge B&M giga to help with lines.
They won't get a B&M giga when they have Millieniun, same with a B&M hyper when they have Magnum.
@@JCBro-yg8vd yeah I get it. It just sucks that all of they’re good rides have slow moving lines.
Rode it when brand new, 2008, and 2019. In 2019 the line moved unbearably slowly. I thought it was just the fast pass people doing laps on us. Thank you for the illuminating video detailing the other reasons. They better get this awesome ride back up to speed!
Kings Island blows CP out of the water in terms of the overall experience, I was so disappointed last time trying to get on the major rides at CP and finding that not only were the operations slow but everybody just seemed miserable. In contrast, Kings Island was the best experience I've ever had at a park.
🤣 yea ok
😂🤦♂️
I don’t care what else they build at Cedar Point, this is the best ride there.
I live an hour away from cedar point. They have a massive labor shortage. You should look up the incentives they are offering people to work there... less staff available means reduced capability to run at full capacity. It's all about labor...
If you go to a store and offer to pay a certain amount for something and the owner says "No, it costs more than that" - do you leave saying "nobody wants to sell anything anymore" or "there's a shortage of "? Cedar Fair is offering a certain compensation package for a certain amount of labor, and the people with labor to sell are saying "No, it costs more than that."
I found your channel on a 20 hour car ride/move. Love the content. It’s informative and interesting and presented in an orderly way