Japanese is easy if you want to learn it at a beginner level, but I think it's difficult if you want to learn it beyond that level. On the other hand, if you think Japanese is difficult, I think it's proof that you've studied the language a lot.
The steepest obstacles that seperate the beginners from those who learn beyond is the first set of Kanji and internalizing verb/adjective conjugations. Once the character salad a sentence is comprised of clicks by itself in your brain, you understand the complexity that is inherent to japanese
Right, I think the easiest part of Chinese is the grammar, and the hardest is probably the pronunciation, since it contains tones which doesn’t exist in most languages
This is by far the BEST video on TH-cam about the fine differences in Japanese and Mandarin. Your videos are extremely well organised and presented. It's just a matter of time until you get your 100K subscriber award. Subbed!
As someone who speaks Mandarin and Taiwanese, I find that Japanese is far more difficult to learn even though I already know all the kanjis. The thing that bothers me the most is that the same kanji can have many different pronunciations in Japanese.
@JoshPecksDad There is also a reason why the US foreign office ranks Japanese as the hardest language. I speak from my personal experience and not your opposite syndrome.
I am in agreement with the op, due to the reason the FSI also rated Japanese more difficult than Mandarin Chinese and even Cantonese Chinese. DLI has a similar listing. By the way you are literally stating to the op who is a speaker of Mandarin and Taiwanese, that he was wrong about his own experience about Japanese being more difficult, than Mandarin showed your own ignorance.@JoshPecksDad
Both the FSI and DLI has the same type of rating. Proving you correct. I did contact the DLI and wanted to take one of their language course as a civilian, but it was a no go, as it was only for people who were going to work at the DLI.@@user-ho8zn9rd2n
Coming from Turkish with its many inflections, Japanese grammar was far less complex. Politeness was more challenging, having only this T-V distinction in my language. Speaking politely is not that much of a problem (when you’re in the service sector you do learn and it becomes automatic) but on the other side…when you’re the one spoken politely, that is harder. I remember going on the school trip for “ryugakusei” of the Japanese university I attended as an exchange student. The guide’s explanations all went over my head, because after all the honorific suffixes and extra words in the sentences I forgot what the topic was about.
@@polyglotdreams yes, the word order especially. BTW another experience regarding kanji readings. I once read Hitachi (日立) as “nichiritsu”, and the text was about companies too!
I definitely feel Mandarin is the easier of the two, but I learned Japanese first because I really personally love the people and culture there. There's such a wealth of great linguist art in Japanese that non-Japanese speakers will never experience due to lack of translation and/or localization. So many things really can't be translated to other languages well while still keeping what makes them special. Even things as pop-culture as anime or manga lose a lot of nuance when translated.
bro, it depends on your mother tongue and the languages you speak. As a Brazilian speaker of Portuguese I still feel that Mandarin is more difficult, but even so I don't speak Mandarin or Japanese 😅
@@maca_atomica_animacoes For people who speak Germanic or Romantic languages, they are both still pretty difficult. It's like comparing if it's easier to lift a 115kg rock or a 120kg rock. One is slightly easier but both are difficult.
@@coolbrotherf127 Japanese grammar is much more straightforward than Chinese or even English. For this reason alone, Japanese should be easier to learn. Also, you don't need to learn all the Kanji to communicate in Japanese, whereas in Chinese, Kanji is essential and you also have different tones for each character, which represent different meanings. For example, "Konbanwa" means good evening in Japanese, whereas in Chinese, you could use "下午好" or "午安， 安means peaceful" to convey the same meaning. You can combine different characters to have the same meaning in Chinese.Some words could have 4 or 5 combinations which makes it much harder to become fluent because people would use them differently. But you can never misunderstand English words or Japanese words.
日本人です。 When I studied Chinese as a second foreign language in college, pronunciation was quite challenging. However, writing wasn't too difficult since we use kanji, and Chinese grammar is similar to English. I believe Japanese is considerably more challenging for native English speakers due to its greater linguistic differences.
Those who have the easiest time learning Japanese language are the ethnic Koreans, Mongols, and Turkic speakers from China. They already know most of the KANJI used in Japan, and they instinctively understand Japanese grammar structure because of its similarity to Korean, Mongolian, and Turkic languages. (Tibeto-Burmese, Hungarian, Finn/Estonian speakers may also have similar grammatical advantages.) Many of them are able to have basic conversations in 6 months, and some are reaching N1-level in 3 years. Pronunciation is interesting too. From what we can observe, not all Chinese, Vietnamese, or Koreans are able to pronounce Japanese with the correct phonetics and pitch accent (i.e. "intonation"). Yet, there are native-Russian/Slavic, Mongolian, and Turkic/Tatar speakers who have very little difficulty due to phonetic overlap. Spanish/Italian/Romanian speakers appear to have an easier time with Japanese phonetics and intonation as well. As for native English speakers, the US State Department classifies Japanese as Level 4, or the most difficult to learn along with Chinese, Korean, and Arabic. Due to the history of England/English, Germanic and Latin/Romance languages are classified as Level 1 or 2 for native English speakers. My impression is that Germanic/English-speakers generally have far more difficulty mastering Japanese than Slavic/Russian-speakers from Eastern Europe, Russia, and Central Asia. People from Central Asia are language geniuses, because you will hear them speaking Japanese like a near-native but often times Japanese is their 3rd, 4th or 5th language after Turkic/Tajik, Russian, and English. It's true that Chinese grammar is SVO and is similar to English. Yet, I think you need to be raised and educated in East Asia to know why the word "contradiction" is written as 矛盾. (It's the same with words/concepts/idioms such as 約束, 背水の陣, 四面楚歌, 臥薪嘗胆 that derive from historical Chinese tales, texts and practices.) I'm sure you know that Vietnam is 越南. Hanoi was historically written as 河内, and Ho Chi Ming is written as 胡志明 in KANJI. For us, the name starts to make sense when we recognize the KANJI, otherwise it's just random combination of gibberish sounds. Hanoi still suffers from periodic flooding.
Thank you for your channel. As a fellow teacher (math in California ) it’s refreshing to have the scholarly viewpoint. My wife is from Hubei Province and I’ve been casually studying mandarin but really want to kick it up a notch after coming back from a recent family trip and planning the next this summer. Heisig books helped me with the characters but I’m Struggling with speaking correctly.
Thanks a lot for this video, you explained the differences really well. In my opinion, Chinese is much harder to learn because of all the phonetics. Some sounds I simply cannot differentiate from eachother. Also, the fact that Japanese has both the Mora system as well as Kanji makes it easier to read in my opinion, and additionally, readings for Kanji that one might have forgotten can be remembered through the context of surrounding conjugations. Thanks again!!
I speak Chinese as mother tongue and Japanese as a second language, I also learned English in middle school and college,so ok to talk in English. It’s the 1st time I noticed the language I am using is so complex and challenging. Also 1st time to listen the explanation of 2 languages by a English speaker. Language stands for culture, it influences the way people think. Feel more and more about it.
Yea Japanese pronunciation in general is relatively easier than other languages but actually the pitch accent thing is quite tricky. Never seen any Japanese learners who have near perfect pitch accent
It's interesting, I don't believe pitch accent (or "intonation") is taught in school in Japan, so they just gain an inherent understanding of it by virtue or being surrounded by the language growing up
Thank you for your video. As a Vietnamese person who speaks a tonal language, when I learn Mandarin Chinese, I find its pronunciation quite easy, even much easier than when I speak Vietnamese. The most challenging aspect is probably learning traditional characters. However, when I started learning Japanese, I was still shocked by the complexity of its grammar, especially since even if I know the meaning of a kanji, it can be read differently when combined with different alphabets. I think Japanese is truly astonishingly difficult, but I will still try my best to conquer it. It was a really interesting video for me.
@@polyglotdreamsthe use of kanji in this sentence is rare to see and I think you made the point that having the kanji sometimes can obscure the reading and comprehension 😂. Thanks for sharing. Love the video.
Very interesting, thank you for the video! I'm a native Polish speaker - my Japanese is around N3 level and I also had Mandarin classes at the university for 2 years (it was very badly taught). Personally I find Mandarin harder - I could not grasp the difference in tones. Japanese pronunciation on the other hand is relatively easy for Polish speakers. Of course there are nuances as correctly pronouncing "ん" or "r" sounds or pitch accent but you will still be understood even if you don't master these 100%. Yes the multiple ways of reading kanji is a pain. Sometimes I can guess the reading by looking at radical and sometimes I can work out the meaning of kanji compound but don't know how to read it 😂 Keigo is also very difficult - I have the basics of it but that's about it. I don't think I will go back to learning Mandarin in any case, I will continue with Japanese.
Cześć, Studiowałem na Uniwersytecie Adama Mickiewicza w Poznaniu. Bardzo dziękuję za Twój komentarz i podzielenie się doświadczeniami! Faktycznie, różnice między językiem chińskim a japońskim mogą być znaczące, zwłaszcza jeśli chodzi o aspekty takie jak ton, który, jak wspomniałeś, stanowi wyzwanie w nauce mandaryńskiego. Wielu Polaków rzeczywiście znajduje japońską wymowę stosunkowo łatwiejszą, co jest częściowo związane z większym podobieństwem do struktury fonetycznej polskiego. Trudności z opanowaniem dźwięków takich jak "ん" czy "r", a także akcentuacja wysokościowa są zrozumiałe, ale jak słusznie zauważyłeś, nawet nieperfekcyjna wymowa nie przeszkadza w zrozumieniu. Co do kanji, to zgadzam się, że różnorodność sposobów czytania może sprawiać trudności, ale umiejętność rozpoznawania znaczenia kanji na podstawie klucza jest bardzo przydatna. Keigo, czyli japoński język uprzejmości, faktycznie może być trudny do opanowania ze względu na jego złożoność i różnorodność form. Rozumiem Twoją decyzję o niekontynuowaniu nauki mandaryńskiego i skupieniu się na japońskim. Każdy język ma swoje unikalne wyzwania, ale pasja do nauki i zrozumienie kultury może znacznie ułatwić proces. Życzę Ci powodzenia w dalszej nauce japońskiego i mam nadzieję, że znajdziesz w tym procesie wiele satysfakcji!
@@polyglotdreams dziekuje za odpowiedz :) Ja studiowalam japonistyke w Krakowie 20 lat temu. Potem mialam dluzsza przerwe w kontakcie z jezykiem i okolo 2020 zaczelam lekcje online z naciskem na mowienie. Bylam z rodzina w Japonii w zeszlym roku i w sprawch codziennych porozumiewalam sie bez wiekszego klopotu - bardzo mnie to podbudowalo i zachecilo do dalszej nauki :) W tym roku znowu wybieram sie do Japonii, tym razem sama. Na pewno chetnie bede zagladac na pana kanal! Przepraszam za brak polskich znakow, mieszkam w Irlandii i nie mam ich na sluzbowym laptopie.
As an Indian learning Mandarin Chinese currently at B1 level,I personally didn't find Chinese as difficult as I thought. I tried to learn Japanese too but I found it harder than I expected.
@@sahasraillindra I have been learning Mandarin Chinese for almost 1.5 years now,and my interest in Mandarin Chinese developed because of the Chinese script as it looks so beautiful and appalling to me and also during my Chinese learning journey, I started watching C-Dramas and I realised a lot of similarities in Indian and Chinese culture which kept me motivated to learn Chinese.Also I saw vlogs of different Indian vloggers travelling to China which also made me wanting to travel to China at least once and experience it on my own. Edit: Apologies if my English is bad 🫠
@@atharv_bajpai21Your English looks good to me, but I think you meant appealing instead of appalling, but the characters could be appealing because of their beauty and appalling because of their difficulty at the same time. :+)
English is dramatically similar to chinese, maybe for this reason is easier learning mandarin in terms of?speak ing as a Chinese, I speak Spanish and living Spain 16 years, then I found that the pronunciation of Japanese is similar to Spanish😂😂
I speak both Japanese and Chinese. I loved this video. I appreciated your analysis. Very thorough and good description of linguistic features. One of the mitigating factors for Japanese is that it borrows a lot of English loan words of which you would write in Katakana script. That does make the acquisition of vocabulary significantly easier. In chinese, vocabulary is generally going to be bi-syllabic compounds where you do have to learn two Chinese character together most of the time. A big challenge of Chinese is that you don't always know where one word begins and one word ends whereas in Japanese, you can look at the script and it's pretty clear because the verb is usually at the end and follows certain conjugation patterns, all of the words that before the verb at the end of the sentence are marked with particles or inflections. Japanese, as a mixed script, does work better for my eyes and brain from that particular standpoint. It's well organized, I would say. So I think those are actually some other factors that should be considered when you're looking at the difficulty of Japanese versus Chinese at least on my own analysis, I've always thought that Chinese was the harder of the two languages, but this video made me consider otherwise, especially your discussion of politeness linguistic structures and the use of Chinese and Japanese derived readings for kanji characters.
English is my first language, but I also speak Mandarin and Cantonese, and read Chinese (not very well, but enough to get by most of the time). I'm curious about what you mean about not being able to tell where a Chinese word begins and ends.
@@tinyRedLeaf Thank you for the question. In both Chinese and Japanese, characters can either stand alone or be part of a compound word. The challenge arises because sometimes it's unclear whether a character is forming a compound with the one before it or the one after it. Unlike in Japanese, where markers like particles or regular conjugations indicate word boundaries for multi-character words, Chinese lacks such clear indicators, making it more difficult to discern where one word ends and another begins solely based on the characters. Therefore, distinguishing between individual characters and compounds can be less straightforward in Chinese compared to Japanese.
Thank you for your explanation. That's quite novel to me, and I think it comes down to one's knowledge of Chinese vocabulary. As a native speaker of both Mandarin and Cantonese, I don't experience such difficulties: the greatest challenge of reading Chinese remains that of recognising the characters and remembering how the character is pronounced in that instance. The "words" aren't difficult to discern within a written sentence when one knows them from everyday speech. In my experience, Japanese is much harder to learn, due to how words and sentences are phrased differently because of tense and contextual conjugations - these don't exist in Chinese, as pointed out in the video.
This. I swear, the amount of gairaigo, sometimes even for words which already exist in tons of ways in Japanese is astounding. I feel like you can pretty much hold a conversation with a Japanese speaker with maybe just vocab for connectors and the inflections, etc. and pretty much substitute like, half the verbs, nouns, adjectives, etc. with Japanese pronunciations of English words. Some of them like yankee turning into delinquent or mansion becoming another term for apartment, etc. however do have different meanings from their English origins.
As a Chinese person, I consider Japanese to be the hardest language in the world. They have three writing systems (hiragana, katakana, kanji), but we don't really need alphabet. Japanese has more syllables than Chinese. Our grammar is similar to English (subject-verb-object), but Japanese places the verb at the end of the sentence.
I am a korean. And many korean who study languages find that japanese is relatively easy compared to other languages because we have many similar grammer rule and vocabulary and word order. Nevertheless chinese character that is used in japanese is still difficult for korean. Probably european will be extremely difficult to learn japanese
It really depends where you come from. Spanish or Italian would be easy for me, at least in the beginning, since I am French. While Norwegians or Germans might find it difficult.
Modern korean doesn't use Chinese characters, but many korean words are chinese and japanese-based. So there are quite a few words that have similar pronunciation.
Great video! As a Spanish native speaker fluent in Japanese after living and working in Japan for 13 years, I can attest to the similarity between the Japanese and Spanish pronunciation systems, including most consonants, all vowels except "u," and the use of syllables. For instance, I find it much easier to comprehend a drama or movie in Japanese than in English. Hiragana and especially katakana, with many words of English and European language origins, actually make the language easier for Europeans, not more complex. In fact, we are better at katakana than Chinese students. I've been studying Chinese for almost a year now, and having learned Japanese first has proved to be a significant advantage when it comes to learning Chinese vocabulary, characters, and readings. However, I find the tonal system of Chinese to be quite challenging. Perhaps my perspective will change as I become more proficient in Chinese, but for now, based on my experience, while I acknowledge the difficulties you mention about Japanese, I believe Japanese has been much easier to learn than Chinese.
Im learning Japanese and I think that what we are calling conjugation is technically just a mix of blocks of verbs and adjectives. For example. Tabetai is not a conjugation of taberu, but taberu verb stem - Tabe + adjective tai. It's like building blocks. I know that what you said was just a simplified idea but i just wanted to say in advance for people who are willing to learn Japanese. Its easier than you think guys! And btw thank you for another amazing video!
Wow, that’s amazing! You know,as a normal Chinese,most of us have learned a lot of Japanese words in their animation and tokusatsu tv show.thank you for making this unique version to help more Europeans and American audiences to understand their differences! And 谢谢你（ありがとう）❤❤❤❤
I'm Japanese, and my husband and I are very familiar with the both Chinese and Japanese languages. We enjoyed watching this video. I had been teaching Japanese a decade ago. It was funny that some of my Chinese students complained why the kanji characters have so many sounds for each though these were originated from China.
Japanese has some difficult tonal differences, too. T and D being switched with regard to aspiration, for example, combined with the overall small amount of sounds (and corresponding increase in amount of words that sound similar) can make it really easy to hear an incorrect word. I also like that Chinese classes will requisitely teach pitch from tge beginning, but many Japanese classes don't really teach pitch at all. It was learning the Japanese pitch that helped me more than anything to more readily understand what I was hearing. Chinese pitch also creates a lot more dynamism in the spoken language. It's easier to follow along when there is a lot of ups and downs.
It's a good idea to read the rules on pronunciation in the NHK Japanese Pronunciation Accent Dictionary. If you're serious about learning Japanese, I think having that dictionary is essential.
As someone who has been fluent in Japanese for 20 years and studied Chinese around the same time and never made it above an intermediate level in Chinese, for me Japanese is way easier. Mainly because of the amount of entertainment and things I wanted to do in the Japanese language were overwhelmingly greater than the amount of things I wanted to do in/with Chinese (less entertainment I was into, besides some Kungfu movies). Also it was much faster learning pronunciation in Japanese and I would even claim that Japanese is the easiest language to pronounce in the whole world since you just need 5 vowels and most sounds just continue that pattern with adding consonants before them. In English there are too many random spelling rules that change pronunciation or weird things. Japanese is always the same, which makes it very easy to hear, and I think hearing a language transfers over to having skills in it eventually. Even Japanese people forget kanji or how to write so although writing is kind of difficult it's not like ultra important, well depending on your goals. Still easy to learn vocab without kanji, just don't get too distracted and focus on all the different readings of individual kanji (you only need one at a time, and learn from context) And in terms of writing Chinese is also a beast with even more kanji than Japanese. To me Chinese (mandarin, or canto, just any dialect) is like 3x harder. I even have a Chinese aunt and some family from China and yet I still got Japanese down instead lol Then again some people get fluent in Chinese and don't in Japanese that study both, so it probably depends on how much you get into the language and how invested you are/how much you enjoy it (how much pressure you put on yourself to immerse in it) *depends on what feels more difficult to learn for the individual*. I still think Chinese is harder though lol
@@charlesrodolf7309Pronunciation and intonation are two different things. Japanese pronunciation is incredibly easy to master for Non-English speakers, the intonation (including pitch) may be harder, but it's no way near the difficulty of tonal languages.
@@charlesrodolf7309 I majored in Japanese Linguistics, took Dogen's pitch accent course on Patreon, so I think I'm aware of it lol Every language has a form of pitch accent in the flow of a sentence or rises and changes in intonation of individual words (Japanese isn't completely flat, and some people might sound like a robot if they speak in monotone). To support your point: Japanese has way more variations of pitch-accent for dozens of dialects not including standard Japanese like if you were to learn Kansai ben, there's still subtle differences between Osaka, Kyoto, Hyougo, Wakayama and everything can be quite different in isolation (especially completely different from Standard dialect/Tokyo). But for the standard dialect, there are many resources nowadays for people that study it. 20 years ago it wasn't that popular to study. But let me ask you this question. If there are many regions in Japan with different forms of pitch accent, then are there many 'correct' ways to pronounce it in Japanese? And is it easy to be understood without pitch accent? How do Japanese people understand others from different regions? Basically, you can become fluent in the language without studying pitch accent in isolation (natives never do), and still be completely understood even if you don't sound like a standard speaker from Tokyo, sometimes people give off being raised in America or other country vibes when they are fluent but haven't mastered pitch-accent, but it doesn't change the fact that you are understood completely (and sometimes intuitively have a good pronunciation and natural flow in your pitch accent, from just being exposed to the language enough) . Try speaking Chinese without ever learning the tones...(maybe possible too with enough exposure, but seems a lot harder) Well, if you have like 10k,20k hours of listening to the language you absorb the flow and don't really need to study pitch-accent, it's only like a spice to improve your language ability closer to native-level language. Listening to the language is more important for the first year or two, and just knowing the pitch accent basic patterns, there's only like 4 main ones you need and it's only something I occasionally go back to if I feel off (or want to sound more native). Basically you will know when you are off if you have enough exposure to the language. I think people who are perfectionists like Dogen really zone in on pitch accent, and I do find other regions more challenging to study for pitch accent because lack of resources, but I can sometimes get Kansaiben pitch accent correct since I lived there and watch a lot of youtube videos with speakers from the region. But I don't really search for ways to study it in isolation or zone in on individual words. Overall sentence flow has always made more sense for me, since in a conversation you won't slowly pronounce individual words, but use them with surrounding words/sentence and context. Also pitch accent changes depending on what words follow, so you could sometimes sound unnatural if you study it too much in isolation. Much more useful to shadow a full sentence if you are at an advanced level or fluent. And occasionally look something up if you feel off.
@@charlesrodolf7309 every region in Japan has a different pitch accent, and a japanese person can understand clearly absolutely any japanese person. And even if pitch was really that important, it would still be way easier than english
It's true that 音読み(onyomi) is based on Chinese reading, but not quite. Most of them are based on Middle Chinese reading, like the onyomi of 日("hi", day) is "nichi" based on Middle Chinese reading "nyit", which is different from Mandarin Chinese 日(ri). The closest modern sounds equivalent with onyomi would be Cantonese and Min Nan Chinese. Also, a Japanese user proved her point on why the Japanese language has inflections because the meaning of the Kanji on their own are not specific enough, like 食("shoku", eat), but is it to eat, will eat, or ate? No one can tell. So inflections were added, like 食べる("taberu", to eat/will eat), 食べたい("tabetai", want to eat), 食べました("tabemashita", ate), etc. Also, also, the reason why the Japanese have 2 readings because some onyomi of Kanji are homonyms with one another, like 市("shi", city), 四("shi", 4), and 死("shi", death), especially since they're based on the Chinese language that depends on tones. Also, about the amount of kunyomi, you don't need to stress learning all of them, some of them are just similar with pre-existing readings, others are rarely used or even obsolete. Just learn the ones that are absolutely necessary. Japanese inflections are always based on kunyomi. Also, onyomi, most likely that not is used for Kanji complex words like 山 on its own is pronounced "yama" based on kunyomi, while the onyomi "san" is used in complex words like 富士山("fuji-san", Mt. Fuji) and 火山("kazan", volcano). Kanji is used more often in workplaces due to its formality, like 有り難う御座います("arigatou gozaimasu", thank you[formal]), when talking to someone else in casual situations, you can just convert the words back into Hiragana as ありがとうございます, or to be more casual, remove ございます("gozaimasu"). In short casual sentences, you only need to add a few Kanji, if you can, to avoid confusion, make text more readable, and make text less childish.
I speak 5 languages now learning Japanese and Cantonese. One thing I notice is that these asian languages are very similar to Turkish (grammatically), because of their Ural Altay linguistic family (Finnish and Japanese)
JP is pretty rough. I have studied it to the point where, I have read perhaps 25 books or so in Japanese. However I still have to look words up constantly. Sound words, all kinds of idioms, and yeah, I don't have all the N1 kanji yet either. I'm missing like 500 kanji still. Plus kanji, is a kind of weird system since kanji can have so many readings. Anyway, I always think that even though CN is no cakewalk, how can it be as hard as JP? Plus yeah, keigo isn't that easy. Luckily foreigners aren't really expected to have mastery of keigo or anything, but still, you need to know some of it just to read books since it is used in literature all the time.
Even for native Japanese speakers, keigo is difficult. Many Japanese write/speak keigo incorrectly. Also, on these days, many people can read kanji but cannot write them correctly. We don’t do handwriting much anymore, just type words on the PC or phone instead, so we don’t need to remember detail forms of kanji. It’s similar for English speakers that they don’t need to remember correct spelling of words as they get automatically corrected on the PC/phone.
17:48 - a little correction on pronunciation here: even though the dictionary form is nasaru, since it's one of the archaic verbs, when changing to ~masu form we don't change the -ru ending to ~ri~ but ~i~ instead (this comes from how hiragana evolved throughout history). Making the verb not nasarimasu but nasaimasu. Other notable examples are: irassharu - irasshaimasu kudasaru - kudasaimasu gozaru - gazaimasu which "coincidentally" are also used in keigo
I remember he hardest part for me as a chinese kid to learn English is the grammar rules, since chinese is analytic. I guess learning English would be easy for people who speak French German or Russian because their native language have even more complicated grammatical rules. While for Japanese I can read some of them without learning thanks to shared character system. it’s so magical sometimes. Unfortunately I have not learnt to speak any Japanese.
Thank you for uploading this video:) How to pronounce 生 In Mandarin; 生(shēng) In Japanese; 生（i）け花を 生（i）き甲斐にした 生（ha）え抜きの生娘（kimusume） 生絹（suzushi）を生業（nariwai）に生計（seikei）をたてた 生（o）い立ちは 生半可（namahanka）ではなかった 生憎（ainiku）生前（souzen）は 生（u）まれてこのかた 生涯（shougai）通して 生粋（kissui）の 生（ubu）だった
Finally a video that presents a clear and correct answer to this often asked question. The multiple readings of kanji is something so complex that most native Japaneses speakers struggle with it, especially if they're dealing with vocabulary outside of their profession. Keigo is another point where young people in particular struggle with, but at least it's a transferable skill across all professions, once you've learned it, you've learned it. No so with kanji reading, that's a life-long struggle.
Oh man I started laughing uncontrollably when the woman demonstrated all their 'a' tones. lol Having a Spanish background was useful for starting Japanese, and I've quite enjoyed learning the writing system including kanji, but the politeness tiers are quite daunting.
@@polyglotdreams yes that helps a lot with a lot of pronunciation, whereas I see monolingual English speakers struggle a little more in that department.
As a Chinese who has N3 Japanese proficiency the hardest part for me is the polite and formal forms of Japanese to show the amount of respect in speech. Chinese doesn’t have that, at least it’s not built into the language’s grammar. One of the reason I’m afraid to use Japanese sometimes (online or in real life) is I’m afraid the way I said things are not polite enough/if I mess up the sentence structure I would piss off someone. In Chinese if I want to express respect I just bow a lot lol
I am currently learning Japanese but im also interested on other languages such as Spanish and Chinese. But from what I've heard, you can't really learn 2 languages simultaneously especially when the language is closely related to each other.
As Russian who learned Japanese and Mandarin I'd say that Japanese is way more difficult to learn for western people. Chinese has more and better resources for learning. Japanese has multiple pronunciations for kanji and Chinese almost always one. This is very important if you want to learn by comprehending raw input (reading, watching shows with subs). Japanese uses different to western languages word order (just google japanese word order) so it'll be hella hard to think in Japanese and even harder to translate something from English to Japanese and vice versa. But Japanese is super interesting to learn, not gonna lie
As I said to a chinese friend: speak japanese is easier than chinese (specially for me that as an spainard that japanese phonetics is 90% alike to spanish), but read and write in chinese is easier than japanese
In China you learn 2500 Chinese characters by the end of elementary school. For comparison's sake, the highest JPLT test, the N1, requires knowing "only" about 2,000.
The Kun’yomi readings of 生 are not 16, but 10 in the given example : い, う, うま, うまれ, お, は, き, な, なま, む. What comes after the dot is not the kanji reading. For instance 生やす is は.やす, so the kun’yomi reading is only は. Obviously, it’s still difficult, but context generally gives a hint for the reading.
Yeah, great point. I’m pretty sure there are other readings for obscure words in classical literature and in modern first names. I’ve stumbled upon lots of words with a reading not referenced in the kanji dictionary I use when reading novels.
@@angamaitesangahyando685 Simply by knowing the word. : If you learn kanji's, you'll have to make a guess that will prove wrong in a lot of cases. But when you know the word 年上 is pronounced "toshiue", you won't make the mistake of reading it "nenjou" (another reading of the same kanjis, which is wrong here). There are other cases where 2 readings are both okay, and you choose what you prefer (but those are low frequency words) Honestly, there are cases where you have to get some experience in listening to guess which reading a word has in a specific context. For example, 入る which can be both read "iru" or "hairu" depending on context. -> This is rare. Mostly, you can guess the reading when reading a book without audio input by knowing the word.
This was an outstanding presentation. Katakana and hiragana can be a little intimidating for beginners, but they can be learned in a short time. While I greatly enjoy Kanji, I find the number of meanings and pronunciations very time consuming to learn. I think it would be easier to learn Chinese writing first. And while the meanings embedded in Kanji are beautiful, it gave rise to what seems like an endless sea of words in the Japanese vocabulary. So, I just relax and study for the love of the language. I admire your dedication to these two fascinating languages. Thank you for your insight into questions that I’ve wondered about.
I don't think you understand. Words come first, in any language. The vocabulary already exists and you designate written letters to represemt the words. The only thing that increases the number of words are loan words and fusions of existing words. The things you call pronounciations are seperate words that have been given the same letters for writing because the meaning of the letter is the same or similar.
@@vivida7160 Of course, you are correct in that a large number of words came even before the Japanese borrowed the Chinese characters. But the Japanese made these characters their own naturally creating the term kanji "漢字" to them. While languages like English that only use phonetic alphabets do use word roots to form new words, it is more common just to simply use two existing words to describe things. On the other hand, it is a natural progression was for the Japanese to mix these ‘Kanji’ into different combinations. They are used either one of many possible Japanese pronunciations, known as ‘Kun’yomi’, or adopted the Chinese pronunciations, known as ‘On’yomi’. This process formed new words that had not previously existed.” “They combined kanji with complementary meanings and desired sounds to create entirely new words.” I’ve heard Japanese people talking about the beauty and descriptiveness of the Japanese language saying that there are over 100 different words to describe rain. Here are just a few examples: Ame (雨): This is the basic word for rain. Kosame (小雨): This term is used to describe light rain. Ooame (大雨): This term is used to describe heavy rain. Niwaka Ame (にわか雨): This term is used to describe sudden rain. Yuudachi (夕立): This term is used to describe heavy evening rain. Touriame (通り雨): This term is used to describe rain that starts and stops suddenly. It is so easy and actually artistic to fit characters together in ways that seem so natural and retain their original meaning for a millennia. それが日本語の漢字です。
@@photon434 You've just told me you don't understand. The words were designated Chinese letters based on meaning. The words that are pronounced the Chinese way are Chinese loan words. Not inventive complucated ways of pronouncing Chinese letters.
A friend of mine, who was a musician found Mandarin fairly easy in his experience. He was confused how people thought the sounds were difficult, but he mimicked the tones without much problems. Edit: He also practiced speech with his girlfriend from Harbin.
I watch every video you upload and it never disappoints. I have started to study Japanese half a year ago because I met students from Tokyo in Spain to which I currently only speak Spanish to and one of them started studying German as well (my mother tongue) 😂 I love the language journey I have started, the only hard thing is keeping myself from starting to many new languages at once.... once you're hooked, you are hooked 😅 I would love to also study Mandarin one day
Modern Chinese or you can also call it Mandarin,compared to the former written language that was officially used in ancient China, no doubt that its grammar is much easier than Japanese. you don’t need to spend a lot of time learning it. One of the most difficult points for the beginners is probably its writing system. The pronunciation is also quite easy except its four tones,however practice makes perfect, mastering them is not very hard. For me, learning Japanese is easy at the beginning,its pronunciation is similar to the dialect that is spoken in my hometown,but when I continued learning the language,I was bothered by kanji...Each character may share two or more sounds...so I quit😭
I'm about N3 in Japanese (~B1) The sole reason I think Japanese is the most challenging is due to the fact that almost every Kanji has two or more readings You can learn the same number of Kanji readings as Chinese but only read ~half as much of the text
For anyone interested in Chinese, you can try using Traditional Chinese characters. I think they are way more beautiful and meaningful with just a single word. But to be honest, they're a bit harder to learn, so no stress. just about knowing something fun.
I just stumbled across this video as I am interested in languages and language learning and do speak several languages, though all of them are European languages. I stayed until the end out of curiosity and learned a lot about these two languages. Pretty cool!
The difficulty of Chinese in daily communication also lies in the extensive use of 成语, 俗语 and 歇后语. These contents are rarely learned when learning Chinese, but are very important in real-life communication.
Indeed, you've highlighted a significant aspect of learning Chinese that many learners encounter. 成语 (chéngyǔ), which are idiomatic expressions usually consisting of four characters, 俗语 (súyǔ), commonly used proverbs or colloquial sayings, and 歇后语 (xiēhòuyǔ), a type of traditional Chinese enigmatic folk simile and humorous allegorical sayings, are all integral parts of daily communication in Chinese. They carry cultural nuances and historical contexts that are not immediately obvious to learners. These expressions are often not emphasized in the early stages of learning Chinese due to their complexity and cultural specificity. However, understanding and using them can greatly enhance not just communication but also an appreciation of Chinese literature and culture. It’s advisable for learners to gradually incorporate these into their study routine to better grasp the language's depth and enrich their conversational skills. Engaging with native speakers and consuming a wide range of Chinese media can be particularly helpful in encountering these expressions in context.
Although Chinese pronunciation is difficult to practice, if you speak slowly, Chinese people can understand you even if the pronunciation is incorrect.
They say chinese haven't got any grammar. I think the japanese writing system is much more difficult.They have Hiragana, Katakana,Kanji,Rómaji,Hepburn. At that the kanjis have several readings in japanese and in CHINESE too. But all in all the chinese musical intonation makes learning chinese more difficult.
@@polyglotdreams Sorry I haven't watch the video yet but along with english(Native hungarian) german,Hawaiian,and more than 20 languages I am learning this two as well, and i have been asked a lot of times which is the harder. So I wrote what i said for this question.(Hungarians always say that hungarian is the most difficult language to learn, but those who say this never learned chinese,japanese,korean,arabic or russian) Of course chinese is the most difficult to learn BUT not mandarin chinese , Instead Cantonese.So if you said this in the video then i agree with you and promise I never write a comment for a video which I haven't watch from the beginning 'till the end.
Fantastic explanation of the differences of my home language growing up which is Mandarin Chinese, and the struggles I'm going through right now learning Japanese as a 20 something year old student. Your expertise and teaching experience really stand out, though maybe review some of those Chinese pronunciations in your examples every once in a while haha
I grew up bilingual in English and Japanese and I always found Chinese and all the kanji they use incredibly intimidating, not to mention the tonal differences (i tried to copy the lady's "a" sounds and i could only get one of them close), but I never properly considered all the politeness levels of Japanese and realized that I can only do very basic customer service level respectfulness. My mother says i text like an anime character at times, so must sound quite silly.
Although Chinese pronunciation is difficult to practice, if you speak slowly, Chinese people can understand you even if the pronunciation is incorrect.
My personal opinion based on experience (intermediate Japanese studies and fluent and literate in mandarin) - Japanese without a doubt is more challenging. The real cagematch video you should do is Japanese versus Korean ;)
I speak Korean and attempted to learn both languages. Now I dropped Chinese and doing well with Japanese. If you happen to know any one of the East Asian languages you will have a much easier time with the other two.
Am Dutch myself; I studied Chinese first for about 5 years but struggled with the tonal system too much. Both to listen and speak properly. Other than that I found the language relatively manageable. Currently I am studying Japanese. At times it can be confusing to have first studied Chinese as modern mandarin pronunciations pop up when reading hanzi instead of the borrowed from 600 years ago by southern Chinese people pronunciation that the Japanese use as kanji. The verb bending so to say is complex in Japanese but it is learnable. What I find complex is that when formulating a sentence or when listening one does not know the time frame used, whether it is a question, request or a command or such until the end of the sentence. Which works in both Chinese and Japanese. with ma for yes/no in mandarin and ka in Japanese. Although both use the ne for a "isn't it?" kind of expression. I intent to go to Japan for 3 months this year April to study Japanese there instead of 1½ hours per week which I used to in the Netherlands. Also I will be staying at a Japanese family to further hopefully have more need to speak and listen to Japanese increasing the getting used to doing both quicker. One thing about both languages I am glad about is that fictional Genders of non living things does not inflict the way words are written which it does in many European languages. Sure a occupation is obvious when speaking about a male or female but a house or a door even in Dutch are not of the same Gender thus get a different word in front of it "Het huis" and "De deur" but at least Dutch has basically either non gender or a gender words. unlike German, French, Italian and Spanish (probably more but my knowledge does not reach that far with other languages ^_^) Informative and somewhat relatable video. Thanks for making the video and sharing your insights :)
I think once you overcome the difficulties of tonal Chinese, forming sentences in Chinese is easier in Japanese as Chinese has less grammatical rules as you can rearrange characters and still make sense. As Chinese I struggle to form sentences in Japanese
My opinion is that there are much more perspectives to any language than just reading, writings, speaking. You will find bottleneck at different stages of learning for different languages. For example, you want to learn ancient Chinese if you want to really be part of the culture, but it’s really a pain as even native speakers find it hard when they learn it at school. On the other hand, Japanese Keigo system is much more complicated to deal with, and you have to master it if you wish to blend in with the society.
This video is brilliant. All my respect and congratulations. I know both languages (Japanese much better than Chinese). I am absolutely convinced that Japanese is far much harder to master. The only simple thing in Japanese is the pronunciation, anything else is nothing but complexity... As for Japanese, you might have forgotten TWO other 'Big' challenging things : 1/ Joshi (助詞 gramatical particles), they are many and their use is difficult and confusing 2/ The fact that in a sentence many things can be omitted (subject in most cases)... for that reason the Japanese sentence is often ambiguous for we don't really know who did what. Even the Japanese get confused sometimes and have to ask : sorry but who did? I experienced once reading a manga in Japanese: I was lost many times despite my honorable level... I read the same manga translated in Chinese and all was so clear. At last I could know who did what! Thank you if you can confirm and/or develop those two points, and again, CONGRATULATIONS for your excellent work. You are such a talented person.
I am Mexican and have always loved learning languages. I learnt Japanese and it had some advantages for me: Pronunciation is VERY easy for Spanish speakers. Grammar is quite different but also much simpler than Romance languages. Kanjis would be the most difficult aspect for the majority of learners but then you can become very fluent in it, even if not able to read it at all. I am learning Mandarin now and while knowing Kanji is useful, I find tones just a nightmare. So I consider Chinese more challenging as a whole.
The following sentence is famous Japanese: 三月一日は日曜日で祝日、晴れの日でした。(March 1st was a Sunday, a public holiday, and a sunny day.) All the Kanjis for "日" in this text read differently. This reads "Sangatsu 𝘁𝘀𝘂𝗶𝘁𝗮𝗰𝗵𝗶 wa 𝗻𝗶𝗰𝗵𝗶you𝗯𝗶 de shuku𝗷𝗶𝘁𝘀𝘂, hare no 𝗵𝗶 deshita." Of these, such as "一日(tsuitachi, the first day of a month)" is called 熟字訓(jukujikun), which is the first time a particular character is read that way when it is used in a set. In other words, we are not aware of a split reading of "一" and "日" in the word "一日". However, the word "一日'' can be used not only to mean "the first day of the month,'' but also to mean "one day" or "all day.'' And the reading then is "ichi𝗻𝗶𝗰𝗵𝗶." This is not jukujikun, but rather a reading in which "一日" is split into "一(ichi)" and "日(nichi)". This makes the following sentence read: 三月一日は一日中雨だった。(It rained all day on March 1.) -> "Sangatsu 𝘁𝘀𝘂𝗶𝘁𝗮𝗰𝗵𝗶 wa ichi𝗻𝗶𝗰𝗵𝗶ju ame datta." Ah, I don't even know why I can read this now that I am writing it. Since I would like to introduce some of the proficient kunjis that contain "日". 今日(kyo, today), 明日(ashita, tomorrow), 明後日(asatte, after tomorrow), 昨日(kinou, yesterday), 一昨日(ototsui or ototoi, before yesterday), 晦日(misoka, end of month), 二十日(hatsuka, 20th day of the month), 日和(hiyori, weather), 向日葵(himawari, sunflower), 百日紅(sarusuberi, crape myrtle), 日向(hinata or hyuga, sunshine)
Actually, even Japanese children can't read that sentence correctly. For example, it is like writing "1 month" and having them read "January. I would recommend non-native speakers to write like this さんがつ ついたちは にちようびで しゅくじつ、はれの日でした or 三月ついたちはにちようびで祝日、はれの日でした
My native language is tonal language. We have 3 tones and Chinese Mandarin has 4 tones. So we find Chinese easier. Japanese grammar is similar to ours but a lot more complex.
great lecture video. The tonal system variations in China is also difficult for Chinese from different regions across the country, namely from different accents, almost like how Spanish is different from Italian. That's why the first Emperor's effort in unification of writing system is huge in the Chinese civilization.
that's also a reason why china never moved onto a phonetic based writing system since there hasn't been a unified spoken language across china until the past few decades.
Japanese is easy if you want to learn it at a beginner level, but I think it's difficult if you want to learn it beyond that level. On the other hand, if you think Japanese is difficult, I think it's proof that you've studied the language a lot.
Yes, the more your learn the more you see there is so much more you don't konw.
No it is quite the opposite. Once you are familiar with the grammar structure its easy to understand Japanese.
The steepest obstacles that seperate the beginners from those who learn beyond is the first set of Kanji and internalizing verb/adjective conjugations. Once the character salad a sentence is comprised of clicks by itself in your brain, you understand the complexity that is inherent to japanese
漢語母語的人學日語的順序這樣會很簡單：日語（掌握到初階後）➡️韓語（掌握到高階後）➡️日語（輕鬆高階）
I disagree, It's not having enough knowledge of it is what is hard.
日本人です。大学で中国語を学んだけど、文法はそんなに難しくなく、漢字も日本の漢字と同じものや似たものが多くて覚えやすかった印象があります。
コメントありがとうございます！大学で中国語を学んでいたとのこと、とても興味深いですね。確かに、日本語と中国語は漢字を共有しているため、一部の語彙や表現が理解しやすいという利点がありますね。文法の違いにも触れていただき、ありがとうございます。中国語を学ぶ際に感じた体験談を共有してくださり、大変感謝しています。今後も言語学習に関する面白い情報や経験を共有できれば幸いです。
Right, I think the easiest part of Chinese is the grammar, and the hardest is probably the pronunciation, since it contains tones which doesn’t exist in most languages
台湾人です。私も大学で日本語を勉強して、あなたと同じ思いをしました。🤣
中文语法本来就是世界上最简单的啊，基本可以说根本没有语法
私は日本語を勉強してる中国人です。中国語のイントネーションと発音は外国人より難しいと思います
This is by far the BEST video on TH-cam about the fine differences in Japanese and Mandarin. Your videos are extremely well organised and presented. It's just a matter of time until you get your 100K subscriber award. Subbed!
I really appreciate your encouragement.
I think because he is an academic and not some poor youtube influencer wannabe! Good for him, god bless
9:44 For anyone learning Japanese i HIGHLY recommend adding this guy to your studies, he has helped me tremendously. His name is Kaname Naito
Yes...
Kaname is the goat
As someone who speaks Mandarin and Taiwanese, I find that Japanese is far more difficult to learn even though I already know all the kanjis. The thing that bothers me the most is that the same kanji can have many different pronunciations in Japanese.
@JoshPecksDad There is also a reason why the US foreign office ranks Japanese as the hardest language.
I speak from my personal experience and not your opposite syndrome.
I am in agreement with the op, due to the reason the FSI also rated Japanese more difficult than Mandarin Chinese and even Cantonese Chinese. DLI has a similar listing. By the way you are literally stating to the op who is a speaker of Mandarin and Taiwanese, that he was wrong about his own experience about Japanese being more difficult, than Mandarin showed your own ignorance.@JoshPecksDad
Both the FSI and DLI has the same type of rating. Proving you correct. I did contact the DLI and wanted to take one of their language course as a civilian, but it was a no go, as it was only for people who were going to work at the DLI.@@user-ho8zn9rd2n
The multiple readings can be difficult for Japanese native speakers too.
The Japanese just need to use hiragana and put spaces between the words and boom problems solved.
Coming from Turkish with its many inflections, Japanese grammar was far less complex. Politeness was more challenging, having only this T-V distinction in my language. Speaking politely is not that much of a problem (when you’re in the service sector you do learn and it becomes automatic) but on the other side…when you’re the one spoken politely, that is harder. I remember going on the school trip for “ryugakusei” of the Japanese university I attended as an exchange student. The guide’s explanations all went over my head, because after all the honorific suffixes and extra words in the sentences I forgot what the topic was about.
There are similarities with Turkish... I am starting to study your language now. Thanks for sharing your experiences in Japan.
@@polyglotdreams yes, the word order especially.
BTW another experience regarding kanji readings. I once read Hitachi (日立) as “nichiritsu”, and the text was about companies too!
I found Chinese easier actually
@@hayabusa1329 grammatically yes, if you manage the kanji in Japanese you would manage the characters as well. However the tones…oh boy, my nightmare.
@@yorgunsamurayyes
no one on TH-cam has provided so much detail in the language's structure - Thank you!
Thank you so much for that comment. I strive to fill in the gaps in the information on TH-cam.
I definitely feel Mandarin is the easier of the two, but I learned Japanese first because I really personally love the people and culture there. There's such a wealth of great linguist art in Japanese that non-Japanese speakers will never experience due to lack of translation and/or localization. So many things really can't be translated to other languages well while still keeping what makes them special. Even things as pop-culture as anime or manga lose a lot of nuance when translated.
I totally agree!
bro, it depends on your mother tongue and the languages you speak. As a Brazilian speaker of Portuguese I still feel that Mandarin is more difficult, but even so I don't speak Mandarin or Japanese 😅
@@maca_atomica_animacoes For people who speak Germanic or Romantic languages, they are both still pretty difficult. It's like comparing if it's easier to lift a 115kg rock or a 120kg rock. One is slightly easier but both are difficult.
@@coolbrotherf127 concordo, os dois são difíceis, isso é verdade
@@coolbrotherf127 Japanese grammar is much more straightforward than Chinese or even English. For this reason alone, Japanese should be easier to learn. Also, you don't need to learn all the Kanji to communicate in Japanese, whereas in Chinese, Kanji is essential and you also have different tones for each character, which represent different meanings. For example, "Konbanwa" means good evening in Japanese, whereas in Chinese, you could use "下午好" or "午安， 安means peaceful" to convey the same meaning. You can combine different characters to have the same meaning in Chinese.Some words could have 4 or 5 combinations which makes it much harder to become fluent because people would use them differently. But you can never misunderstand English words or Japanese words.
日本人です。
When I studied Chinese as a second foreign language in college, pronunciation was quite challenging. However, writing wasn't too difficult since we use kanji, and Chinese grammar is similar to English. I believe Japanese is considerably more challenging for native English speakers due to its greater linguistic differences.
Then we do agree... thanks for your input.
In English you can change the full stop , or period , into comma , in order to prolong your sentence .But this can not be done in Chinese .
@@tianz1993 example:
I met her yesterday . → I met her yesterday , at the train station .
我昨天和她见面了。我昨天在车站和她见面了。我昨天和她在车站见面了。
“我昨天和她见面在车站” ？
Those who have the easiest time learning Japanese language are the ethnic Koreans, Mongols, and Turkic speakers from China. They already know most of the KANJI used in Japan, and they instinctively understand Japanese grammar structure because of its similarity to Korean, Mongolian, and Turkic languages. (Tibeto-Burmese, Hungarian, Finn/Estonian speakers may also have similar grammatical advantages.) Many of them are able to have basic conversations in 6 months, and some are reaching N1-level in 3 years.
Pronunciation is interesting too. From what we can observe, not all Chinese, Vietnamese, or Koreans are able to pronounce Japanese with the correct phonetics and pitch accent (i.e. "intonation"). Yet, there are native-Russian/Slavic, Mongolian, and Turkic/Tatar speakers who have very little difficulty due to phonetic overlap. Spanish/Italian/Romanian speakers appear to have an easier time with Japanese phonetics and intonation as well.
As for native English speakers, the US State Department classifies Japanese as Level 4, or the most difficult to learn along with Chinese, Korean, and Arabic. Due to the history of England/English, Germanic and Latin/Romance languages are classified as Level 1 or 2 for native English speakers. My impression is that Germanic/English-speakers generally have far more difficulty mastering Japanese than Slavic/Russian-speakers from Eastern Europe, Russia, and Central Asia. People from Central Asia are language geniuses, because you will hear them speaking Japanese like a near-native but often times Japanese is their 3rd, 4th or 5th language after Turkic/Tajik, Russian, and English.
It's true that Chinese grammar is SVO and is similar to English. Yet, I think you need to be raised and educated in East Asia to know why the word "contradiction" is written as 矛盾. (It's the same with words/concepts/idioms such as 約束, 背水の陣, 四面楚歌, 臥薪嘗胆 that derive from historical Chinese tales, texts and practices.) I'm sure you know that Vietnam is 越南. Hanoi was historically written as 河内, and Ho Chi Ming is written as 胡志明 in KANJI. For us, the name starts to make sense when we recognize the KANJI, otherwise it's just random combination of gibberish sounds. Hanoi still suffers from periodic flooding.
@papayongsarninei8133
？这不是语序的问题吗，你也可以直接说“我昨天和她见面了，在车站那边。”是你自己想一句话说完吧。你加逗号呗，中文哪里加逗号都无所谓，不像英语有语法的作用。在口语里，就算你说：昨天，我和她，见面了，在车站。没人管你好吧。听得懂。
Very comprehensive analysis on both languages! Love it when professors do well-organized videos like these on TH-cam.
Thank you so much for your support 🙏
Thank you for your channel. As a fellow teacher (math in California ) it’s refreshing to have the scholarly viewpoint. My wife is from Hubei Province and I’ve been casually studying mandarin but really want to kick it up a notch after coming back from a recent family trip and planning the next this summer. Heisig books helped me with the characters but I’m
Struggling with speaking correctly.
Thanks so much for your support.
this is probably the best language analysis Ive watched on TH-cam. Thank you!!❤❤
Wow, thank you! I appreciate the encouragement 🙏
Thanks a lot for this video, you explained the differences really well. In my opinion, Chinese is much harder to learn because of all the phonetics. Some sounds I simply cannot differentiate from eachother. Also, the fact that Japanese has both the Mora system as well as Kanji makes it easier to read in my opinion, and additionally, readings for Kanji that one might have forgotten can be remembered through the context of surrounding conjugations. Thanks again!!
Thanks for your input.
I speak Chinese as mother tongue and Japanese as a second language, I also learned English in middle school and college,so ok to talk in English. It’s the 1st time I noticed the language I am using is so complex and challenging. Also 1st time to listen the explanation of 2 languages by a English speaker.
Language stands for culture, it influences the way people think. Feel more and more about it.
Definitely... language and culture are united.
absolutely loved this video. so much depth into two languages that even native speaker could not give a better explanation than this video.
That is very kind. Thanks
Excellent factual comparison. No BS!!!! No gimmicks. Thank you.
Glad it was helpful! Thank for that feedback
Yea Japanese pronunciation in general is relatively easier than other languages but actually the pitch accent thing is quite tricky. Never seen any Japanese learners who have near perfect pitch accent
Very few achieve it.
Is pitch accent more difficult to learn than tones or stress?
It's interesting, I don't believe pitch accent (or "intonation") is taught in school in Japan, so they just gain an inherent understanding of it by virtue or being surrounded by the language growing up
Thank you for your video. As a Vietnamese person who speaks a tonal language, when I learn Mandarin Chinese, I find its pronunciation quite easy, even much easier than when I speak Vietnamese. The most challenging aspect is probably learning traditional characters. However, when I started learning Japanese, I was still shocked by the complexity of its grammar, especially since even if I know the meaning of a kanji, it can be read differently when combined with different alphabets. I think Japanese is truly astonishingly difficult, but I will still try my best to conquer it. It was a really interesting video for me.
有り難うございました、頑張って下さい
@@polyglotdreamsthe use of kanji in this sentence is rare to see and I think you made the point that having the kanji sometimes can obscure the reading and comprehension 😂. Thanks for sharing. Love the video.
Very interesting, thank you for the video! I'm a native Polish speaker - my Japanese is around N3 level and I also had Mandarin classes at the university for 2 years (it was very badly taught). Personally I find Mandarin harder - I could not grasp the difference in tones. Japanese pronunciation on the other hand is relatively easy for Polish speakers. Of course there are nuances as correctly pronouncing "ん" or "r" sounds or pitch accent but you will still be understood even if you don't master these 100%. Yes the multiple ways of reading kanji is a pain. Sometimes I can guess the reading by looking at radical and sometimes I can work out the meaning of kanji compound but don't know how to read it 😂 Keigo is also very difficult - I have the basics of it but that's about it. I don't think I will go back to learning Mandarin in any case, I will continue with Japanese.
Cześć,
Studiowałem na Uniwersytecie Adama Mickiewicza w Poznaniu.
Bardzo dziękuję za Twój komentarz i podzielenie się doświadczeniami! Faktycznie, różnice między językiem chińskim a japońskim mogą być znaczące, zwłaszcza jeśli chodzi o aspekty takie jak ton, który, jak wspomniałeś, stanowi wyzwanie w nauce mandaryńskiego. Wielu Polaków rzeczywiście znajduje japońską wymowę stosunkowo łatwiejszą, co jest częściowo związane z większym podobieństwem do struktury fonetycznej polskiego. Trudności z opanowaniem dźwięków takich jak "ん" czy "r", a także akcentuacja wysokościowa są zrozumiałe, ale jak słusznie zauważyłeś, nawet nieperfekcyjna wymowa nie przeszkadza w zrozumieniu.
Co do kanji, to zgadzam się, że różnorodność sposobów czytania może sprawiać trudności, ale umiejętność rozpoznawania znaczenia kanji na podstawie klucza jest bardzo przydatna. Keigo, czyli japoński język uprzejmości, faktycznie może być trudny do opanowania ze względu na jego złożoność i różnorodność form.
Rozumiem Twoją decyzję o niekontynuowaniu nauki mandaryńskiego i skupieniu się na japońskim. Każdy język ma swoje unikalne wyzwania, ale pasja do nauki i zrozumienie kultury może znacznie ułatwić proces. Życzę Ci powodzenia w dalszej nauce japońskiego i mam nadzieję, że znajdziesz w tym procesie wiele satysfakcji!
@@polyglotdreams dziekuje za odpowiedz :) Ja studiowalam japonistyke w Krakowie 20 lat temu. Potem mialam dluzsza przerwe w kontakcie z jezykiem i okolo 2020 zaczelam lekcje online z naciskem na mowienie. Bylam z rodzina w Japonii w zeszlym roku i w sprawch codziennych porozumiewalam sie bez wiekszego klopotu - bardzo mnie to podbudowalo i zachecilo do dalszej nauki :) W tym roku znowu wybieram sie do Japonii, tym razem sama. Na pewno chetnie bede zagladac na pana kanal! Przepraszam za brak polskich znakow, mieszkam w Irlandii i nie mam ich na sluzbowym laptopie.
As an Indian learning Mandarin Chinese currently at B1 level,I personally didn't find Chinese as difficult as I thought.
I tried to learn Japanese too but I found it harder than I expected.
It is challenging, but I hope you succeed
How did you get interested in it? How long have you been learning?
@@sahasraillindra I have been learning Mandarin Chinese for almost 1.5 years now,and my interest in Mandarin Chinese developed because of the Chinese script as it looks so beautiful and appalling to me and also during my Chinese learning journey, I started watching C-Dramas and I realised a lot of similarities in Indian and Chinese culture which kept me motivated to learn Chinese.Also I saw vlogs of different Indian vloggers travelling to China which also made me wanting to travel to China at least once and experience it on my own.
Edit: Apologies if my English is bad 🫠
@@atharv_bajpai21Your English looks good to me, but I think you meant appealing instead of appalling, but the characters could be appealing because of their beauty and appalling because of their difficulty at the same time. :+)
English is dramatically similar to chinese, maybe for this reason is easier learning mandarin in terms of?speak ing
as a Chinese, I speak Spanish and living Spain 16 years, then I found that the pronunciation of Japanese is similar to Spanish😂😂
ありがとうございます 🥰この動画はとても面白いです。 私はアメリカ人です。日本語を勉強しています 🇺🇸❤🇯🇵
頑張ってください
I speak both Japanese and Chinese. I loved this video. I appreciated your analysis. Very thorough and good description of linguistic features. One of the mitigating factors for Japanese is that it borrows a lot of English loan words of which you would write in Katakana script. That does make the acquisition of vocabulary significantly easier. In chinese, vocabulary is generally going to be bi-syllabic compounds where you do have to learn two Chinese character together most of the time. A big challenge of Chinese is that you don't always know where one word begins and one word ends whereas in Japanese, you can look at the script and it's pretty clear because the verb is usually at the end and follows certain conjugation patterns, all of the words that before the verb at the end of the sentence are marked with particles or inflections. Japanese, as a mixed script, does work better for my eyes and brain from that particular standpoint. It's well organized, I would say. So I think those are actually some other factors that should be considered when you're looking at the difficulty of Japanese versus Chinese at least on my own analysis, I've always thought that Chinese was the harder of the two languages, but this video made me consider otherwise, especially your discussion of politeness linguistic structures and the use of Chinese and Japanese derived readings for kanji characters.
Thanks so much for your comment.
English is my first language, but I also speak Mandarin and Cantonese, and read Chinese (not very well, but enough to get by most of the time). I'm curious about what you mean about not being able to tell where a Chinese word begins and ends.
@@tinyRedLeaf Thank you for the question. In both Chinese and Japanese, characters can either stand alone or be part of a compound word. The challenge arises because sometimes it's unclear whether a character is forming a compound with the one before it or the one after it. Unlike in Japanese, where markers like particles or regular conjugations indicate word boundaries for multi-character words, Chinese lacks such clear indicators, making it more difficult to discern where one word ends and another begins solely based on the characters. Therefore, distinguishing between individual characters and compounds can be less straightforward in Chinese compared to Japanese.
Thank you for your explanation. That's quite novel to me, and I think it comes down to one's knowledge of Chinese vocabulary. As a native speaker of both Mandarin and Cantonese, I don't experience such difficulties: the greatest challenge of reading Chinese remains that of recognising the characters and remembering how the character is pronounced in that instance. The "words" aren't difficult to discern within a written sentence when one knows them from everyday speech. In my experience, Japanese is much harder to learn, due to how words and sentences are phrased differently because of tense and contextual conjugations - these don't exist in Chinese, as pointed out in the video.
This. I swear, the amount of gairaigo, sometimes even for words which already exist in tons of ways in Japanese is astounding. I feel like you can pretty much hold a conversation with a Japanese speaker with maybe just vocab for connectors and the inflections, etc. and pretty much substitute like, half the verbs, nouns, adjectives, etc. with Japanese pronunciations of English words. Some of them like yankee turning into delinquent or mansion becoming another term for apartment, etc. however do have different meanings from their English origins.
I've studied Mandarin (traditional), Korean and Japanese, and I can firmly say Japanese is the hardest.
Yes, we agree.
As a Chinese person, I consider Japanese to be the hardest language in the world. They have three writing systems (hiragana, katakana, kanji), but we don't really need alphabet. Japanese has more syllables than Chinese. Our grammar is similar to English (subject-verb-object), but Japanese places the verb at the end of the sentence.
Thanks for sharing your view.
I am a korean. And many korean who study languages find that japanese is relatively easy compared to other languages because we have many similar grammer rule and vocabulary and word order. Nevertheless chinese character that is used in japanese is still difficult for korean. Probably european will be extremely difficult to learn japanese
Yes... thanks for affirming what I said about Japanese and Korean
Korean has no kanji, so you say an obvious thing.
It really depends where you come from.
Spanish or Italian would be easy for me, at least in the beginning, since I am French.
While Norwegians or Germans might find it difficult.
he is talking about the grammar not the writing system. korean and japanese are similar in grammar. chinese is completely different@@yugiohfanatic1964
Modern korean doesn't use Chinese characters, but many korean words are chinese and japanese-based. So there are quite a few words that have similar pronunciation.
what a great video! so informative and well-explained!
Thank you so much
67 YEARS OLD?? YOU LOOK 15 YEARS YOUNGER I AM REFUSING TO BELIEVE YOU'RE 67 😭
LOL, thanks ... yes 67, born in 1956.
@@polyglotdreamsyou look mid 40s. What’s the secret
Great video! As a Spanish native speaker fluent in Japanese after living and working in Japan for 13 years, I can attest to the similarity between the Japanese and Spanish pronunciation systems, including most consonants, all vowels except "u," and the use of syllables. For instance, I find it much easier to comprehend a drama or movie in Japanese than in English. Hiragana and especially katakana, with many words of English and European language origins, actually make the language easier for Europeans, not more complex. In fact, we are better at katakana than Chinese students. I've been studying Chinese for almost a year now, and having learned Japanese first has proved to be a significant advantage when it comes to learning Chinese vocabulary, characters, and readings. However, I find the tonal system of Chinese to be quite challenging. Perhaps my perspective will change as I become more proficient in Chinese, but for now, based on my experience, while I acknowledge the difficulties you mention about Japanese, I believe Japanese has been much easier to learn than Chinese.
我想学西班牙语
Professor Keeley, you are great! Such insightful approaches are rare and greatly appreciated. You've won a new subscriber.
Awesome, thank you!
Im learning Japanese and I think that what we are calling conjugation is technically just a mix of blocks of verbs and adjectives. For example. Tabetai is not a conjugation of taberu, but taberu verb stem - Tabe + adjective tai. It's like building blocks. I know that what you said was just a simplified idea but i just wanted to say in advance for people who are willing to learn Japanese. Its easier than you think guys! And btw thank you for another amazing video!
Wow, that’s amazing! You know,as a normal Chinese,most of us have learned a lot of Japanese words in their animation and tokusatsu tv show.thank you for making this unique version to help more Europeans and American audiences to understand their differences! And 谢谢你（ありがとう）❤❤❤❤
有り難うございました
I'm Japanese, and my husband and I are very familiar with the both Chinese and Japanese languages. We enjoyed watching this video. I had been teaching Japanese a decade ago. It was funny that some of my Chinese students complained why the kanji characters have so many sounds for each though these were originated from China.
Thanks for sharing!
Japanese has some difficult tonal differences, too. T and D being switched with regard to aspiration, for example, combined with the overall small amount of sounds (and corresponding increase in amount of words that sound similar) can make it really easy to hear an incorrect word. I also like that Chinese classes will requisitely teach pitch from tge beginning, but many Japanese classes don't really teach pitch at all. It was learning the Japanese pitch that helped me more than anything to more readily understand what I was hearing. Chinese pitch also creates a lot more dynamism in the spoken language. It's easier to follow along when there is a lot of ups and downs.
Yes. It is quite strange that pitch is not taught at an early stage.
It's a good idea to read the rules on pronunciation in the NHK Japanese Pronunciation Accent Dictionary. If you're serious about learning Japanese, I think having that dictionary is essential.
As someone who has been fluent in Japanese for 20 years and studied Chinese around the same time and never made it above an intermediate level in Chinese, for me Japanese is way easier. Mainly because of the amount of entertainment and things I wanted to do in the Japanese language were overwhelmingly greater than the amount of things I wanted to do in/with Chinese (less entertainment I was into, besides some Kungfu movies). Also it was much faster learning pronunciation in Japanese and I would even claim that Japanese is the easiest language to pronounce in the whole world since you just need 5 vowels and most sounds just continue that pattern with adding consonants before them. In English there are too many random spelling rules that change pronunciation or weird things. Japanese is always the same, which makes it very easy to hear, and I think hearing a language transfers over to having skills in it eventually.
Even Japanese people forget kanji or how to write so although writing is kind of difficult it's not like ultra important, well depending on your goals. Still easy to learn vocab without kanji, just don't get too distracted and focus on all the different readings of individual kanji (you only need one at a time, and learn from context)
And in terms of writing Chinese is also a beast with even more kanji than Japanese.
To me Chinese (mandarin, or canto, just any dialect) is like 3x harder.
I even have a Chinese aunt and some family from China and yet I still got Japanese down instead lol
Then again some people get fluent in Chinese and don't in Japanese that study both, so it probably depends on how much you get into the language and how invested you are/how much you enjoy it (how much pressure you put on yourself to immerse in it) *depends on what feels more difficult to learn for the individual*. I still think Chinese is harder though lol
Exactly... motivation and effort are key factors.
aint not way japanese is easy language to pronounce lol are you even aware of pitch accent
@@charlesrodolf7309Pronunciation and intonation are two different things. Japanese pronunciation is incredibly easy to master for Non-English speakers, the intonation (including pitch) may be harder, but it's no way near the difficulty of tonal languages.
@@charlesrodolf7309 I majored in Japanese Linguistics, took Dogen's pitch accent course on Patreon, so I think I'm aware of it lol
Every language has a form of pitch accent in the flow of a sentence or rises and changes in intonation of individual words (Japanese isn't completely flat, and some people might sound like a robot if they speak in monotone). To support your point: Japanese has way more variations of pitch-accent for dozens of dialects not including standard Japanese like if you were to learn Kansai ben, there's still subtle differences between Osaka, Kyoto, Hyougo, Wakayama and everything can be quite different in isolation (especially completely different from Standard dialect/Tokyo).
But for the standard dialect, there are many resources nowadays for people that study it. 20 years ago it wasn't that popular to study.
But let me ask you this question. If there are many regions in Japan with different forms of pitch accent, then are there many 'correct' ways to pronounce it in Japanese?
And is it easy to be understood without pitch accent? How do Japanese people understand others from different regions?
Basically, you can become fluent in the language without studying pitch accent in isolation (natives never do), and still be completely understood even if you don't sound like a standard speaker from Tokyo, sometimes people give off being raised in America or other country vibes when they are fluent but haven't mastered pitch-accent, but it doesn't change the fact that you are understood completely (and sometimes intuitively have a good pronunciation and natural flow in your pitch accent, from just being exposed to the language enough) .
Try speaking Chinese without ever learning the tones...(maybe possible too with enough exposure, but seems a lot harder)
Well, if you have like 10k,20k hours of listening to the language you absorb the flow and don't really need to study pitch-accent, it's only like a spice to improve your language ability closer to native-level language. Listening to the language is more important for the first year or two, and just knowing the pitch accent basic patterns, there's only like 4 main ones you need and it's only something I occasionally go back to if I feel off (or want to sound more native). Basically you will know when you are off if you have enough exposure to the language.
I think people who are perfectionists like Dogen really zone in on pitch accent, and I do find other regions more challenging to study for pitch accent because lack of resources, but I can sometimes get Kansaiben pitch accent correct since I lived there and watch a lot of youtube videos with speakers from the region. But I don't really search for ways to study it in isolation or zone in on individual words. Overall sentence flow has always made more sense for me, since in a conversation you won't slowly pronounce individual words, but use them with surrounding words/sentence and context. Also pitch accent changes depending on what words follow, so you could sometimes sound unnatural if you study it too much in isolation. Much more useful to shadow a full sentence if you are at an advanced level or fluent. And occasionally look something up if you feel off.
@@charlesrodolf7309 every region in Japan has a different pitch accent, and a japanese person can understand clearly absolutely any japanese person. And even if pitch was really that important, it would still be way easier than english
It's true that 音読み(onyomi) is based on Chinese reading, but not quite. Most of them are based on Middle Chinese reading, like the onyomi of 日("hi", day) is "nichi" based on Middle Chinese reading "nyit", which is different from Mandarin Chinese 日(ri). The closest modern sounds equivalent with onyomi would be Cantonese and Min Nan Chinese. Also, a Japanese user proved her point on why the Japanese language has inflections because the meaning of the Kanji on their own are not specific enough, like 食("shoku", eat), but is it to eat, will eat, or ate? No one can tell. So inflections were added, like 食べる("taberu", to eat/will eat), 食べたい("tabetai", want to eat), 食べました("tabemashita", ate), etc. Also, also, the reason why the Japanese have 2 readings because some onyomi of Kanji are homonyms with one another, like 市("shi", city), 四("shi", 4), and 死("shi", death), especially since they're based on the Chinese language that depends on tones. Also, about the amount of kunyomi, you don't need to stress learning all of them, some of them are just similar with pre-existing readings, others are rarely used or even obsolete. Just learn the ones that are absolutely necessary. Japanese inflections are always based on kunyomi. Also, onyomi, most likely that not is used for Kanji complex words like 山 on its own is pronounced "yama" based on kunyomi, while the onyomi "san" is used in complex words like 富士山("fuji-san", Mt. Fuji) and 火山("kazan", volcano). Kanji is used more often in workplaces due to its formality, like 有り難う御座います("arigatou gozaimasu", thank you[formal]), when talking to someone else in casual situations, you can just convert the words back into Hiragana as ありがとうございます, or to be more casual, remove ございます("gozaimasu"). In short casual sentences, you only need to add a few Kanji, if you can, to avoid confusion, make text more readable, and make text less childish.
Japanese is a difficult language, but it's also a very beautiful language. Please try learning it. Japanese people will welcome it.
As a Chinese, I learned a lot about Japanese language from your video, thank you!🥰
My Pleasure! Thank you for your kind comment.
I speak 5 languages now learning Japanese and Cantonese. One thing I notice is that these asian languages are very similar to Turkish (grammatically), because of their Ural Altay linguistic family (Finnish and Japanese)
JP is pretty rough. I have studied it to the point where, I have read perhaps 25 books or so in Japanese. However I still have to look words up constantly. Sound words, all kinds of idioms, and yeah, I don't have all the N1 kanji yet either. I'm missing like 500 kanji still. Plus kanji, is a kind of weird system since kanji can have so many readings.
Anyway, I always think that even though CN is no cakewalk, how can it be as hard as JP?
Plus yeah, keigo isn't that easy. Luckily foreigners aren't really expected to have mastery of keigo or anything, but still, you need to know some of it just to read books since it is used in literature all the time.
Go for N1 ... you can do it
Even for native Japanese speakers, keigo is difficult. Many Japanese write/speak keigo incorrectly. Also, on these days, many people can read kanji but cannot write them correctly. We don’t do handwriting much anymore, just type words on the PC or phone instead, so we don’t need to remember detail forms of kanji. It’s similar for English speakers that they don’t need to remember correct spelling of words as they get automatically corrected on the PC/phone.
17:48 - a little correction on pronunciation here: even though the dictionary form is nasaru, since it's one of the archaic verbs, when changing to ~masu form we don't change the -ru ending to ~ri~ but ~i~ instead (this comes from how hiragana evolved throughout history). Making the verb not nasarimasu but nasaimasu.
Other notable examples are:
irassharu - irasshaimasu
kudasaru - kudasaimasu
gozaru - gazaimasu
which "coincidentally" are also used in keigo
This channel is gold. Congratulations, Sir!!!
Thank you very much! I really appreciate your comment.
I remember he hardest part for me as a chinese kid to learn English is the grammar rules, since chinese is analytic. I guess learning English would be easy for people who speak French German or Russian because their native language have even more complicated grammatical rules. While for Japanese I can read some of them without learning thanks to shared character system. it’s so magical sometimes. Unfortunately I have not learnt to speak any Japanese.
Give Japanese a try.
Thanks for this video. Fascinating!
Thanks... I really appreciate it 🙏
Thank you for uploading this video:)
How to pronounce 生
In Mandarin;
生(shēng)
In Japanese;
生（i）け花を 生（i）き甲斐にした 生（ha）え抜きの生娘（kimusume）
生絹（suzushi）を生業（nariwai）に生計（seikei）をたてた
生（o）い立ちは 生半可（namahanka）ではなかった
生憎（ainiku）生前（souzen）は 生（u）まれてこのかた
生涯（shougai）通して 生粋（kissui）の 生（ubu）だった
正にその通りです。
読み方が行く通りもあり
漢字が２つに繋がると
全くの習った事が無意味な程読み方が変わります。
他国の方は混乱するのは
当然の事です。
And many more possibilities.
それゆえに、
ー日本語には語彙が豊富にある。
ー日本語にはボキャブラリーが豊富にある。
上記の文はどちらもほとんど同じ意味だけど、時と場合によっては、受ける印象が若干違うわけです。
An excellent presentation based on an objective, academic perspective. Liked and subscribed.
Much appreciated!
Great video ❤ I'm glad I've stumbled upon your channel. Thanks for making the videos. I will be watching them with great interest ☺️
Thanks... welcome 🙏 to the community
Finally a video that presents a clear and correct answer to this often asked question.
The multiple readings of kanji is something so complex that most native Japaneses speakers struggle with it, especially if they're dealing with vocabulary outside of their profession.
Keigo is another point where young people in particular struggle with, but at least it's a transferable skill across all professions, once you've learned it, you've learned it. No so with kanji reading, that's a life-long struggle.
ありがとうございます
素晴らしい動画、ありがとうございます！日本人の私でも上手く説明できないことを事細かく解釈して頂き、大変勉強になりました。
在向欧美人说明汉语与日语的区别时，我也不知道该如何解释，多亏您的视频，我又长了很多知识，这对我学习语言上提供了很大帮助。非常感谢您！
有り難うございました
Oh man I started laughing uncontrollably when the woman demonstrated all their 'a' tones. lol
Having a Spanish background was useful for starting Japanese, and I've quite enjoyed learning the writing system including kanji, but the politeness tiers are quite daunting.
The vowels are the same...
@@polyglotdreams yes that helps a lot with a lot of pronunciation, whereas I see monolingual English speakers struggle a little more in that department.
I love how you enunciate when you speak English.
I do my best.
As a Chinese who has N3 Japanese proficiency the hardest part for me is the polite and formal forms of Japanese to show the amount of respect in speech. Chinese doesn’t have that, at least it’s not built into the language’s grammar. One of the reason I’m afraid to use Japanese sometimes (online or in real life) is I’m afraid the way I said things are not polite enough/if I mess up the sentence structure I would piss off someone. In Chinese if I want to express respect I just bow a lot lol
Yes... in the video, that is what I said too.
I am currently learning Japanese but im also interested on other languages such as Spanish and Chinese.
But from what I've heard, you can't really learn 2 languages simultaneously especially when the language is closely related to each other.
Ever since I was 18 years old, I learned more than one language at the same time. I've even studied Portuguese in Spanish.
As Russian who learned Japanese and Mandarin I'd say that Japanese is way more difficult to learn for western people.
Chinese has more and better resources for learning.
Japanese has multiple pronunciations for kanji and Chinese almost always one. This is very important if you want to learn by comprehending raw input (reading, watching shows with subs).
Japanese uses different to western languages word order (just google japanese word order) so it'll be hella hard to think in Japanese and even harder to translate something from English to Japanese and vice versa.
But Japanese is super interesting to learn, not gonna lie
Yes very interesting... thanks
thank you for sharing
As I said to a chinese friend: speak japanese is easier than chinese (specially for me that as an spainard that japanese phonetics is 90% alike to spanish), but read and write in chinese is easier than japanese
The vowels are similar...
In China you learn 2500 Chinese characters by the end of elementary school. For comparison's sake, the highest JPLT test, the N1, requires knowing "only" about 2,000.
Yeah , they have the same 5 vowels
Wow! I'm trying to learn both languages... This video is very helpful✨️
Great... all the best in your studies! THANKS for the comment.
Amazing. Thx for your insightful analysis! I like your content!
Much appreciated!
The Kun’yomi readings of 生 are not 16, but 10 in the given example : い, う, うま, うまれ, お, は, き, な, なま, む.
What comes after the dot is not the kanji reading. For instance 生やす is は.やす, so the kun’yomi reading is only は.
Obviously, it’s still difficult, but context generally gives a hint for the reading.
That is a valid point... Nevertheless, there are other readings not given in the examples.
Yeah, great point. I’m pretty sure there are other readings for obscure words in classical literature and in modern first names.
I’ve stumbled upon lots of words with a reading not referenced in the kanji dictionary I use when reading novels.
@@Raifu__How would you know a given word's reading in a book? Or do you mean audiobooks?
- Adûnâi
@@angamaitesangahyando685 Simply by knowing the word.
:
If you learn kanji's, you'll have to make a guess that will prove wrong in a lot of cases. But when you know the word 年上 is pronounced "toshiue", you won't make the mistake of reading it "nenjou" (another reading of the same kanjis, which is wrong here).
There are other cases where 2 readings are both okay, and you choose what you prefer (but those are low frequency words)
Honestly, there are cases where you have to get some experience in listening to guess which reading a word has in a specific context. For example, 入る which can be both read "iru" or "hairu" depending on context.
-> This is rare. Mostly, you can guess the reading when reading a book without audio input by knowing the word.
What a wonderfully enlightening and encouraging video, thank you 🙏
You are so welcome. Thanks for your support 🙏
When he speaks chinese, he sounds like a japanese dude with super identical japanese accent. how fascinating
I like that... that's funny
How?
I think this is incredibly wonderful content and education. I'd go as far as therapeutic...
Thank you!
This was an outstanding presentation. Katakana and hiragana can be a little intimidating for beginners, but they can be learned in a short time. While I greatly enjoy Kanji, I find the number of meanings and pronunciations very time consuming to learn. I think it would be easier to learn Chinese writing first. And while the meanings embedded in Kanji are beautiful, it gave rise to what seems like an endless sea of words in the Japanese vocabulary. So, I just relax and study for the love of the language. I admire your dedication to these two fascinating languages. Thank you for your insight into questions that I’ve wondered about.
I don't think you understand. Words come first, in any language. The vocabulary already exists and you designate written letters to represemt the words. The only thing that increases the number of words are loan words and fusions of existing words. The things you call pronounciations are seperate words that have been given the same letters for writing because the meaning of the letter is the same or similar.
@@vivida7160 Of course, you are correct in that a large number of words came even before the Japanese borrowed the Chinese characters. But the Japanese made these characters their own naturally creating the term kanji "漢字" to them.
While languages like English that only use phonetic alphabets do use word roots to form new words, it is more common just to simply use two existing words to describe things. On the other hand, it is a natural progression was for the Japanese to mix these ‘Kanji’ into different combinations. They are used either one of many possible Japanese pronunciations, known as ‘Kun’yomi’, or adopted the Chinese pronunciations, known as ‘On’yomi’. This process formed new words that had not previously existed.”
“They combined kanji with complementary meanings and desired sounds to create entirely new words.” I’ve heard Japanese people talking about the beauty and descriptiveness of the Japanese language saying that there are over 100 different words to describe rain. Here are just a few examples:
Ame (雨): This is the basic word for rain.
Kosame (小雨): This term is used to describe light rain.
Ooame (大雨): This term is used to describe heavy rain.
Niwaka Ame (にわか雨): This term is used to describe sudden rain.
Yuudachi (夕立): This term is used to describe heavy evening rain.
Touriame (通り雨): This term is used to describe rain that starts and stops suddenly.
It is so easy and actually artistic to fit characters together in ways that seem so natural and retain their original meaning for a millennia.
それが日本語の漢字です。
@@photon434 You've just told me you don't understand. The words were designated Chinese letters based on meaning. The words that are pronounced the Chinese way are Chinese loan words. Not inventive complucated ways of pronouncing Chinese letters.
The multiple pronunciations indicate different usage and meanings as you may have noticed
A friend of mine, who was a musician found Mandarin fairly easy in his experience. He was confused how people thought the sounds were difficult, but he mimicked the tones without much problems.
Edit: He also practiced speech with his girlfriend from Harbin.
Musical ability surely can help.
因为他们学习的教材是北京话的发音，很奇怪的发音，只有本人到了中国，才会发现，发音不重要，到了中国南方，根本不存在什么发音，都是一个音，
@@user-lg1zz4yd3k ...啥，都是一个音，你开玩笑吗
I watch every video you upload and it never disappoints. I have started to study Japanese half a year ago because I met students from Tokyo in Spain to which I currently only speak Spanish to and one of them started studying German as well (my mother tongue) 😂 I love the language journey I have started, the only hard thing is keeping myself from starting to many new languages at once.... once you're hooked, you are hooked 😅 I would love to also study Mandarin one day
Thanks so much for your support!
I am a tutor in both Japanese and Mandarin in case you are interested 🙌
I think the extreme hard difficult mode will be Cantonese. I would like to see an analysis on this.
Cantonese tones and pronunciation is very challenging.
七年間日本語を勉強していても、敬語の語彙と文法はぜんぜんしりません。「なさる」や「いたす」は聞いたことがありません。日本語を習うのがまだまだだと思いました😭
頑張って下さい
あなたの文はカンペキですし正しい道をあゆんでいます。ちなみに「なさる」や「いたす」は古語にちかいです。陛下がこのことをなされた、「なさる」はこういう文でつかいます。
「なさる」「いたす」は古語ではありません。ごく当たり前に日常で使われていますよ！
Modern Chinese or you can also call it Mandarin,compared to the former written language that was officially used in ancient China, no doubt that its grammar is much easier than Japanese. you don’t need to spend a lot of time learning it. One of the most difficult points for the beginners is probably its writing system. The pronunciation is also quite easy except its four tones,however practice makes perfect, mastering them is not very hard.
For me, learning Japanese is easy at the beginning,its pronunciation is similar to the dialect that is spoken in my hometown,but when I continued learning the language,I was bothered by kanji...Each character may share two or more sounds...so I quit😭
Where is your hometown?
@@polyglotdreams Shanghai,my hometown is the third largest island in China.
Thank you for this video! I have never heard of keigo until now. You explained everything in great detail.
I'm glad you enjoyed it!
I'm about N3 in Japanese (~B1)
The sole reason I think Japanese is the most challenging is due to the fact that almost every Kanji has two or more readings
You can learn the same number of Kanji readings as Chinese but only read ~half as much of the text
Exactly... that was also my argument in the video
This is a great video. Spot on with mandarin and matches my understanding of Japanese. Admire your achievement with the languages.
Thank you so much!
very insightful introduction, thx.
For anyone interested in Chinese, you can try using Traditional Chinese characters. I think they are way more beautiful and meaningful with just a single word. But to be honest, they're a bit harder to learn, so no stress. just about knowing something fun.
I love traditional characters
Really enjoy your content , good luck and continue to educate us!
Thanks, will do!
Awesome video! Super informative
THANKS
I just stumbled across this video as I am interested in languages and language learning and do speak several languages, though all of them are European languages. I stayed until the end out of curiosity and learned a lot about these two languages. Pretty cool!
Great... welcome to Asian languages.
聞いていい？
→聞かせていただけると嬉しいのですが。
で大爆笑しました🤣🤣🤣日本語めんどくさいですね！確かに日本語を習うのは大変ですわ！
我现在学中文！你的视频很有意思😊
大変ですよ❗
謝謝你學中文❤ありがとうございます❤
日本人快向中国道歉
聞いていい?
↓
伺ってもよろしいでしょうか。
の方がより自然です。
会社でもお客さんに使ってます。
The difficulty of Chinese in daily communication also lies in the extensive use of 成语, 俗语 and 歇后语.
These contents are rarely learned when learning Chinese, but are very important in real-life communication.
Indeed, you've highlighted a significant aspect of learning Chinese that many learners encounter. 成语 (chéngyǔ), which are idiomatic expressions usually consisting of four characters, 俗语 (súyǔ), commonly used proverbs or colloquial sayings, and 歇后语 (xiēhòuyǔ), a type of traditional Chinese enigmatic folk simile and humorous allegorical sayings, are all integral parts of daily communication in Chinese. They carry cultural nuances and historical contexts that are not immediately obvious to learners.
These expressions are often not emphasized in the early stages of learning Chinese due to their complexity and cultural specificity. However, understanding and using them can greatly enhance not just communication but also an appreciation of Chinese literature and culture. It’s advisable for learners to gradually incorporate these into their study routine to better grasp the language's depth and enrich their conversational skills. Engaging with native speakers and consuming a wide range of Chinese media can be particularly helpful in encountering these expressions in context.
Although Chinese pronunciation is difficult to practice, if you speak slowly, Chinese people can understand you even if the pronunciation is incorrect.
True
They say chinese haven't got any grammar. I think the japanese writing system is much more difficult.They have Hiragana, Katakana,Kanji,Rómaji,Hepburn. At that the kanjis have several readings in japanese and in CHINESE too. But all in all the chinese musical intonation makes learning chinese more difficult.
I addressed those issued in the video
@@polyglotdreams Sorry I haven't watch the video yet but along with english(Native hungarian) german,Hawaiian,and more than 20 languages I am learning this two as well, and i have been asked a lot of times which is the harder. So I wrote what i said for this question.(Hungarians always say that hungarian is the most difficult language to learn, but those who say this never learned chinese,japanese,korean,arabic or russian) Of course chinese is the most difficult to learn BUT not mandarin chinese , Instead Cantonese.So if you said this in the video then i agree with you and promise I never write a comment for a video which I haven't watch from the beginning 'till the end.
@@mihalyzentai9868 have a look ... it is much more objectively analytical
@@polyglotdreams Thanks,I will do just that. Seems to me I will be an avid follower of your channel.
Fantastic explanation of the differences of my home language growing up which is Mandarin Chinese, and the struggles I'm going through right now learning Japanese as a 20 something year old student. Your expertise and teaching experience really stand out, though maybe review some of those Chinese pronunciations in your examples every once in a while haha
Thanks so much
I grew up bilingual in English and Japanese and I always found Chinese and all the kanji they use incredibly intimidating, not to mention the tonal differences (i tried to copy the lady's "a" sounds and i could only get one of them close), but I never properly considered all the politeness levels of Japanese and realized that I can only do very basic customer service level respectfulness. My mother says i text like an anime character at times, so must sound quite silly.
Even university graduates have to brush up on polite language.
Although Chinese pronunciation is difficult to practice, if you speak slowly, Chinese people can understand you even if the pronunciation is incorrect.
I think you forgot to mention which one to start first to make learning the second one easier
Good point!
My personal opinion based on experience (intermediate Japanese studies and fluent and literate in mandarin) - Japanese without a doubt is more challenging. The real cagematch video you should do is Japanese versus Korean ;)
Thanks... coming soon.
I speak Korean and attempted to learn both languages. Now I dropped Chinese and doing well with Japanese. If you happen to know any one of the East Asian languages you will have a much easier time with the other two.
Yes... please watch this video th-cam.com/video/aOlHa9OZnxI/w-d-xo.htmlsi=RFQHFMhWGfpYnS-_
Am Dutch myself; I studied Chinese first for about 5 years but struggled with the tonal system too much. Both to listen and speak properly. Other than that I found the language relatively manageable. Currently I am studying Japanese. At times it can be confusing to have first studied Chinese as modern mandarin pronunciations pop up when reading hanzi instead of the borrowed from 600 years ago by southern Chinese people pronunciation that the Japanese use as kanji. The verb bending so to say is complex in Japanese but it is learnable. What I find complex is that when formulating a sentence or when listening one does not know the time frame used, whether it is a question, request or a command or such until the end of the sentence. Which works in both Chinese and Japanese. with ma for yes/no in mandarin and ka in Japanese. Although both use the ne for a "isn't it?" kind of expression. I intent to go to Japan for 3 months this year April to study Japanese there instead of 1½ hours per week which I used to in the Netherlands. Also I will be staying at a Japanese family to further hopefully have more need to speak and listen to Japanese increasing the getting used to doing both quicker. One thing about both languages I am glad about is that fictional Genders of non living things does not inflict the way words are written which it does in many European languages. Sure a occupation is obvious when speaking about a male or female but a house or a door even in Dutch are not of the same Gender thus get a different word in front of it "Het huis" and "De deur" but at least Dutch has basically either non gender or a gender words. unlike German, French, Italian and Spanish (probably more but my knowledge does not reach that far with other languages ^_^)
Informative and somewhat relatable video. Thanks for making the video and sharing your insights :)
Thanks for your input... all the best to uou Herr in Japan
I think once you overcome the difficulties of tonal Chinese, forming sentences in Chinese is easier in Japanese as Chinese has less grammatical rules as you can rearrange characters and still make sense. As Chinese I struggle to form sentences in Japanese
My opinion is that there are much more perspectives to any language than just reading, writings, speaking. You will find bottleneck at different stages of learning for different languages. For example, you want to learn ancient Chinese if you want to really be part of the culture, but it’s really a pain as even native speakers find it hard when they learn it at school. On the other hand, Japanese Keigo system is much more complicated to deal with, and you have to master it if you wish to blend in with the society.
Yes... the cultural aspects are extremely important.
This video is brilliant. All my respect and congratulations.
I know both languages (Japanese much better than Chinese). I am absolutely convinced that Japanese is far much harder to master. The only simple thing in Japanese is the pronunciation, anything else is nothing but complexity...
As for Japanese, you might have forgotten TWO other 'Big' challenging things : 1/ Joshi (助詞 gramatical particles), they are many and their use is difficult and confusing 2/ The fact that in a sentence many things can be omitted (subject in most cases)... for that reason the Japanese sentence is often ambiguous for we don't really know who did what. Even the Japanese get confused sometimes and have to ask : sorry but who did?
I experienced once reading a manga in Japanese: I was lost many times despite my honorable level... I read the same manga translated in Chinese and all was so clear. At last I could know who did what!
Thank you if you can confirm and/or develop those two points, and again, CONGRATULATIONS for your excellent work. You are such a talented person.
Thank you so much for the kind words and sharing your experiences.
I am Mexican and have always loved learning languages. I learnt Japanese and it had some advantages for me: Pronunciation is VERY easy for Spanish speakers. Grammar is quite different but also much simpler than Romance languages. Kanjis would be the most difficult aspect for the majority of learners but then you can become very fluent in it, even if not able to read it at all. I am learning Mandarin now and while knowing Kanji is useful, I find tones just a nightmare. So I consider Chinese more challenging as a whole.
Thanks for sharing... saludos
The following sentence is famous Japanese: 三月一日は日曜日で祝日、晴れの日でした。(March 1st was a Sunday, a public holiday, and a sunny day.)
All the Kanjis for "日" in this text read differently. This reads "Sangatsu 𝘁𝘀𝘂𝗶𝘁𝗮𝗰𝗵𝗶 wa 𝗻𝗶𝗰𝗵𝗶you𝗯𝗶 de shuku𝗷𝗶𝘁𝘀𝘂, hare no 𝗵𝗶 deshita." Of these, such as "一日(tsuitachi, the first day of a month)" is called 熟字訓(jukujikun), which is the first time a particular character is read that way when it is used in a set. In other words, we are not aware of a split reading of "一" and "日" in the word "一日".
However, the word "一日'' can be used not only to mean "the first day of the month,'' but also to mean "one day" or "all day.'' And the reading then is "ichi𝗻𝗶𝗰𝗵𝗶." This is not jukujikun, but rather a reading in which "一日" is split into "一(ichi)" and "日(nichi)". This makes the following sentence read:
三月一日は一日中雨だった。(It rained all day on March 1.) -> "Sangatsu 𝘁𝘀𝘂𝗶𝘁𝗮𝗰𝗵𝗶 wa ichi𝗻𝗶𝗰𝗵𝗶ju ame datta."
Ah, I don't even know why I can read this now that I am writing it. Since I would like to introduce some of the proficient kunjis that contain "日".
今日(kyo, today), 明日(ashita, tomorrow), 明後日(asatte, after tomorrow), 昨日(kinou, yesterday), 一昨日(ototsui or ototoi, before yesterday), 晦日(misoka, end of month), 二十日(hatsuka, 20th day of the month), 日和(hiyori, weather), 向日葵(himawari, sunflower), 百日紅(sarusuberi, crape myrtle), 日向(hinata or hyuga, sunshine)
Great example.
Impressive!
Actually, even Japanese children can't read that sentence correctly. For example, it is like writing "1 month" and having them read "January.
I would recommend non-native speakers to write like this
さんがつ ついたちは にちようびで しゅくじつ、はれの日でした or 三月ついたちはにちようびで祝日、はれの日でした
Very good Korean advert.
你们 说三月一日，我们也说三月一日。字都没改。日曜日晴れの日，猜也能猜出来。晴这个字就是晴天。还能表达其他啥嘛？
Don’t worry everyone! Even Japanese including me can’t use KEIGO properly 😂
16:35 標準語だとややこしい敬語も、方言だと割と単純な所がある。
食べる－召し上がる(標準語)
食べる－食べはる(関西弁)
ただ書き言葉ではないのが難点か
面白い
well, I am crazy enough to learn Korean, Japanese, and Chinese simultaneously and study C1 English. it is fun 😁😁😁😛😛
Fantastic... all the best to you!
AS A CHINESE, I FEEL THE WESTERN PHONICS WRITING IS DIFFICULT. I OFTEN FORGOTTEN THE SPELLING OF ENGLISH VOCABULARY
もちろん、中国語発も漢字文化圏だから多いと思うが、元々中国にあった言葉だけ、
西洋発祥の新しい文化の言葉の翻訳は70％が日本語の応用！
和製漢語
I speak Japanese and am learning Chinese. This is such a good topic! Bravo
Thanks
逆に、漢字は日本から中国に輸出されたものもあります。
和製漢語
楽しいビデオをありがとうございました！冒頭で長いとおっしゃっていましたが、楽しくて分かりやすい内容であっという間に終わったと感じました♪
私は日本人ですが、中学でフランス語、大学で中国語を学び挫折、その後社会人になってからイタリア語を学んだ後、アメリカの企業で数年働いたので日本語以外では英語が一番マシだと思っていますが、最近韓国語を独学で勉強し始めたところ文法が似ていることに気付き、予想以上に楽しく学べています。
本当は挫折したフランス語や中国語、イタリア語など他の言語も学びたいのですが…。
ＡＮＷ、とりあえず韓国語を英語レベルにマスターしたいと思っていたところだったので、こちらのビデオはとても参考になりました！
他のビデオも拝見させていただきますね。
コメントありがとうございます！楽しんでいただけて、本当に嬉しいです。多言語を学ぶ過程での挑戦や、それに伴う喜びは共感できる部分が多いと思います。日本語、英語、フランス語、中国語、イタリア語といった多様な言語への挑戦は、非常に印象的ですね。特に、文法が似ていると感じた韓国語を楽しく学習されている様子には、勉強のモチベーションが伝わってきます。
挫折した言語に再挑戦することは簡単ではありませんが、これまでの経験がきっと役に立つはずです。英語レベルまで韓国語をマスターされたいという目標は素晴らしいですし、その過程で見つけた楽しさが、他の言語学習への良い刺激になることを願っています。
このビデオがお役に立ったとのこと、大変光栄です。他のビデオも楽しんでいただけると幸いです。言語学習の旅は続きますので、これからも一緒に頑張りましょう！
小さい頃からいろんな言語に触れていると将来やっぱ楽になるものなんですかね
@@eigajyanaiyo ペラペラになるかどうかは別として(笑)、外国語や外国に対する不安やコンプレックスはなくなる気がします。あと、語学って（特に日本人の場合）思い込みで苦手と感じてる人が多い気が(;^_^A かつて英語の家庭教師やってた時の生徒で、英語苦手で教科書に落書きしちゃうような子だったのですが、英語ができるようになると海外旅行で楽しいお買い物できるし楽しめる音楽や映画の幅広がるし、日本が嫌になったら世界に飛び出せるし…と会うたびに日本語だけでは味わえないことをおしゃべりしてたら英語に興味を持ち、結果高校から米国留学してフランスの大学に入り、そこで出会った人と結婚してフランスに住んでいます(笑)。日本の外国語教育は「話せなくても大丈夫♪」というところが欠けているので、そこがクリアできれば外国語を学ぶことが楽しくなって私のようにあちこち手を出す人になります(笑)。長々と失礼しました
@@chisatoclara 僕もそう思います
伝わればいいって思って
授業受けています
钓鱼岛是中国的🤪
My native language is tonal language. We have 3 tones and Chinese Mandarin has 4 tones. So we find Chinese easier. Japanese grammar is similar to ours but a lot more complex.
Which language?
Complex conjugation in Spanish is technically true for professional or poetic writing, but they are rapidly falling out of use in colloquial speech.
For example? Recently in Colombia I didn’t notice that.
@@polyglotdreams Subjuntivo I hear it very rarely.
Subjuntivo is not only very widely used, but often even mandatory in Spanish.
How is it that you have a American English Accent if you are from Poland and live in Japan?
I wad born in the US and lived in 🇵🇱..
I live in Japan for 42 years and am a Japanese citizen.
In general, people can learn all kinds of dialects and accents even without being from those places or living there.
Lol
great lecture video. The tonal system variations in China is also difficult for Chinese from different regions across the country, namely from different accents, almost like how Spanish is different from Italian. That's why the first Emperor's effort in unification of writing system is huge in the Chinese civilization.
Thanks so much...
that's also a reason why china never moved onto a phonetic based writing system since there hasn't been a unified spoken language across china until the past few decades.