Here in the US some highschools and many college's still have a rifle or skeet club. I think more schools should teach gun saftey and how to properly respect firearms.
My grandfather did rifle training for the Boy Scouts until the late 70s. I had a good time but I guess we aren’t supposed to know about firearms anymore.
I am from the UK and my senior school (1975-1979) had a cadet unit (CCF) based in it. We had an armoury and on the top floor we had a couple of class rooms with folding walls so we could shoot up to 30m. We had .22 lr converted Lee Enfield's and some regular .22lr bolt action rifles. I actually think it was a great idea and promoted discipline and responsibility.
I went to Maidstone Grammar School in the UK during the 90s, which was rare for State-funded schools in having a CCF (Combined Cadet Force). The school had it's own armoury in the mock-Tudor gatehouse, and a dedicated 25m range for .22 shooting - we used the Lee-Enfield 'Rifle No.8' for the purpose. Full-bore shooting (with either the old .303 Lee-Enfield 'Rifle No.4', or the then-new 5.56mm L98 'Cadet GP Rifle') took place off-site, often down at the MoD ranges at Hythe on the Kent coast. Happy, happy days! :-)
When i was in the cadets we had no 9 ( no4 single shot .22lr SMLE conversions) I'm not sure if they drilled the barrel to put in a .22lr or new but very thick then the mag was inserted with a steel block and we had some old NATO converted SMLEs with an optic and the .22 was lighter. We had some nice martini .22s as a cadet died and his father donated some in the 70s but by this time we had modern light .22lr rifles we also had SA80 old spec deactivation as drill rifles, we had a couple of straight pull SA80 cadet rifles but you would just use that for your first couple of shots of 5.56 then we would just use standard issue SA80A2 rifles with optics on semi and sometimes full also the LSW and carbine versions. We also had some hi-powers and Glock 17s as it was an indoor rifle range used by the military rated to 7.62 NATO but they had a US M16A2 that everyone preferred, a FAL an AKM and an MP5 I think for weapon familiarisation 1 MOD DMR AR10 style in 7.62 NATO. No belt feds but an old converted 7.62 NATO bren and a no4 SMLE in .303 with some very old ammo, I think it was privately owned same with a 8mm Mauser maybe from WW2 but we never got to shoot it as the ammo was for private use.
I was ACF (i.e. not school associated) in the late 60’s. We had No 8 and Martini rifles for the 22 range at our base and No 4 rifles and Bren guns for when we went to full bore ranges.
@@charlesphillips4575 I was similar but it was a mixed ATC/ATF but since it was a reasonably sized base as a storage depot and hospital that was old it had its own indoor fullbore range. It looked like everything was stuck in the 50s even though it was the 2010s, the only thing that made it look modern where some computers for flight simulators and the armys combat simulator (shooting game) oh and it was about half girls, and that was litraly the first time I had seen any female classmates wearing a skirt as most of the time it was a parade uniform. At first it was pretty fun as we got to take days off school for flying lessons and we all preferred the older training aircraft. Went shooting pretty often and went to camps then slowly just like the whole British military funding for everything was cut so when half of the time it became parade marching practise so most left. The no. 9 rifles you realy had to slam the bolt forward or the firing pin would not hit the Jim properly. Whenever we first went to try and get the shooting badge they would bring out the martini rifles but they had a story behind them and both had a plaque on the stock. Realy nice and light .22 martinis with target sights and adjustable stocks, a cadet in the 70s died during work experience in highschool when he was helping to lay bricks and the wall fell and killed him, he liked shooting so his family purchased the rifles and donated them to the cadets but it's nice to see that I'm sure even today they are being used, the replacement .22s for the 8/9 felt quite cheap but very light as allnof the 9s they had where in realy bad condition.
That's a loooooong barrel for a cartridge without any appreciable amount powder. I wonder how much velocity the bullets lose due to friction. Edit, never trust anything gun related that says it's "self cleaning".
Re “self cleaning” yes indeed 😅 I unfortunately to not have access to an original manual but I wouldn’t be surprised if the bore was to be lightly oiled at regular intervals when shooting as you sometimes see recommended in period manuals for when using gallery loads in full bore rifles.
Thank you for addressing this (today) very little-known topic. I also own a "La Préférée" but have never shot it for lack of appropriate ammo. Shooting was part of the official curriculum in France until 1939. To put this in perspective, there were practically no gun laws in France until that date too, and shooting and gun ownership _and also apparently carry_ were very popular. The Flobert cartridge was also used for living-room shooting at the time - and no, I'm not making this up.
My pleasure. Being overtly or covertly armed was common throughout most of Europe at the time as evidenced by the huge amount of pocket pistols in 25acp and 32acp from that time that are still around today.
Back when i was an army cadet at the age of 14 (4th Royal Corps of Transport) in my home city of Liverpool, we trained with .303 Enfileds and the L1A1 7.62mm SLR rifles for drill/parade and range shooting. Also had the thrill and pleasure of firing the .303 Bren and the 9mm Sterling SMG. Then when i served in the Royal Air Force at the age of 18 until discharged on medical grounds i again trained and used the L1A1 SLR then the piece of crap 5.56mm SA80 when they fazed out the SLR.
C’mon bruh. 🤨 If you actually want to promote gun rights, you can’t be spouting nonsense. The first semi-auto pistol wasn’t invented until 1891, and the concept didn’t see commercial success until the Borchardt C93. The problems in the USA (which I agree are vastly overblown by the media) are clearly a confluence of technology, America’s particular laws, and America’s particular “CoMe AnD tAkE iT” reactionary gun movement. There’s always going to be homicidal maniacs it’s true, but the idea that there’s nothing we could even try changing to limit the damage… that’s just absurd. We can do better.
@@falseprofit9801 I personally think USA's biggest problems with guns are due to easy access of worlds biggest black market, lack of common sense education, stupid laws as you mentioned, loss of morality in society and in families and mental health issues.
When I was in university I was an Officer Cadet in the RCAF. Our mess was at McGill University and we used the McGill indoor rifle range. We used No.4 rifles that were chambered in .22. The ammunition was made in the same year I was born - 1944. The guns were taken away from us after the FLQ raided an armory in Montreal and walked off with a bunch of FNs. If the FNs were ever recovered I never heard about it.
Here in Australia when I was going to high school in the 70’s & early 80’s school cadets still existed in govt high schools, but over time teachers with military or militia experiance became too thin on the ground, with the compulsory self defence militia (they were not allowed to be deployed abroad outside of Australia territories) ending around 63 or something. Although they still exist in the poncy private schools
In the small town I live in pubs have tubes built into a wall leading to target. . 22lr These where in response to dreadfull marksmanship after the bore war. Devizes in Wiltshire had 7 pubs but I am not sure how many are left, the lamb pub has a team that competes against other pubs. People walking into a pub in Britain with a gun would be shocking In big city's but hear its quite normal. I believe Birmingham has a bell target league for airguns and this used to be very popular, if you hit the bull it rang a bell
This training rifle is classified exactly in the same category as ball trap Shotguns with 10 cartridges capacity, army sniper .50 Rifles,… Our french laws SUCKS !
@@M8Military Biggest part of the population are boomers, no matter how young people vote, they will not be heard. Stop trying to analyse laws from a country that you don't even know.
That's amazing. Here in Chile i went to a Swiss school and we had a 10m air rifle range, and even that was considered an oddity. I think they do archery now.
I grew up in France, entering elementary school in the fall of 1963. We had a really traditionalist, old-fashioned teacher who insisted on teaching us the Geography of France and the colonies, even though the colonial empire was already gone for good. She also taught us many subjects that were actual life skills in her "leçons de choses", which were similar in orientation to what my kids in Israel had to endure in the first decade of this Century under the title of "Sciences". I was riveted! She talked about absolutely everything, including how firearms work. I confess I liked her class on trains and locomotives a lot better because of the cool illustrations! As a pre-teen, I did shoot every possible Flobert toy at the fun fair, including a few really cool semi-autos and a Margolin pistol that might have been in .22 short, because this was the only way that my Dad could transmit, at great expense, a little bit of that side of his wisdom, but really, it was too easy! To the point: I have now reached a ripe old age, and I had never heard about this French school firearms instruction thing! So a big thank you M'sieur BOTR, for making me incrementally less ignorant!
I had a similar such rifle about ten years ago. 6mm Bosquet was still in an ammunition supplier’s stock. Possibly NOS? I did exactly the same as yours as one might expect. Quickly succumbed to a shooting colleagues desire to buy it for his young son’s use and he found it fine for the task. He did track down a rare box of 6mm long which chambers and fired five rounds of that one day at 50metres and it did fine. I suspect the official choice of 6mm Bosquet was to see off foreign .22 short and support French ammunition manufacturers and also to limit the range at which naughty boys could misuse the school rifles. Thank you for the video and the old advertisements.
@@thebotrchapOff topic but... I kind of need your help. I was on an auction site bidding on a PPK blank firer for reenactment, due to armagnac accidentally bought a French drill rifle I know NOTHING about French military procurement. I'd like to repair the bolt and replace the handle that's come off and work out what bayonet it would néed. Reciever is marked MAS, it's a metal reciever and bolt, wood stock, with rubber parts for bolt handle and some other bits. No Moving parts at all. Has a bayonet lug. Would you be able to help?
@ I don’t know about helping with bits but I’d like to see some pics for sure and I can ask around for info on French forums 👍 Get in touch on botr.contact@gmail.com
What a sweet thing! I used to collect smallbore training rifles, loosely WW2 and earlier, most were .22rf LR but ISTR a .22short. I had a "German rifle" which had a visually similar bolt and action to this one: goodness knows its origin and history!
I use to fire those 6 mm rimfire rounds out of a .22 revolver and they were very dirty and rapidly fouled the gun.I never took one apart to know if they had a powder change in them but from a revolver they would go a bit further into wood than a Gecado 27 .177 air rifle i had at the time and I would think that the air rifle was about 625 FPS at the muzzle.
Would not be so expensive to get a smith to drill the barrel and put in a .22 liner, may increase the value of the rifle or just buy one in .22lr Get a 6mm short nailgun blank lowest power, open up the crimp half assed and glue a 6mm lead ball on (if you don't want to uncrimp it then glue some 6mm plastic dowl then a ball. Pretty sure it would handle the most powerful long 6mm /.22lr nailgun blank just fine but may have to use a rod to extract it
I honestly don't see the problem. In the US this training would be similar, to our current Junior Reserved Officer Training Corps. Sound like the French version was more intensive but exercise is never bad and firearms training at an early age makes for safer kids.
Looks like the bolt design lets you accelerate the bolt rearwards quite a bit before actually starting the extraction, which probably helps the ejection.
It does. The bolt can travel freely over the distance it takes to deploy the feed tray. In actual fact it’s not really deployed, rather the feed tray stays put as the bolt is retracted, held in place by a lug on the extractor shaft. Once that distance is traveled by the bolt it hits the resistance of the extractor spring and needs a firm shove to work it.
All this brings to mind the School Cadets here in Australia who I used to envy as a kid when I saw them on the public transport with their Enfield No1Mk3* rifles (in .22LR, but I didn't know it at the time). I did a bit of research and apparently the concept arose about 1851, and just after the turn of the century, the School Cadets were being equipped with cute little mini-Martinis made by BSA and Greener in .310 or 297/230 Morris calibres, with the internal mechanism redesigned by Auguste Francotte to permit removal from the receiver as a single unit. An interesting side-note for Martini-Henry collectors !
When I went to Hatfield Polytechnic in the late 1970s Wednesday afternoon was club time. I used to go shooting at the DE Haviland indoor range. I always remember the Martini Henry action rifle, and the Webley "service" revolver in 22 short. There was also a Russian target pistol, that had to be repaired. After it once went bang and shot a small piece of it's self backwards when fired.
I´ve got one, similar as in the video but in 22LR. I´cant find much information about these though. Where it was made or date manufactured. There´s a serial nr but no factory id.
Fascinating. Having spent twenty five years running a school target rifle club in the UK as well as working with Cadets at the school, we taught on the good old No.8 .22LR rifle for many years, until, sadly it was finaly withdrawn and replaced by the reprehensibly poor Savage model. (What a terrible rifle that is!!) The better option always being anything from our range of Anschutz and Walther target rifles! Eventually, moving onto the full bore target rifles; both cadet version and civvi rifles. The history of school shooting clubs is fascinating and it was so interesting to discover this French 'version' compared to how we did things in Britain across the years. Thank you for a great demo. 👍🏻
I had a shooting club in my highschool - as an extra part of our Civil Defense classes back in... let me think... around 1990, right where the communism fell in Poland. We shot .22 LR "Short Battle Sport Rifle". Great fun, especially since the shooting range was in a corridor next to the vegetable storage for school kitchen and sometimes someone snuck an onion behind the target. Soft billet made those onions explode quite impressively :) I think school gun/rifle classes are a good idea - to teach people what guns are, how to handle them safely, demystify guns and even make them a bit boring and mundane.
Chap, there is a way to shoot .22Short or .22 Long in this rifle and still both maintain bore centricity and avoiding case rupture: wrap a layer of Sellotape around the cartridge case. Same applies to firing .22LR in .22Magnum chambers.
This reminds me of the time i was spotting for a friend shooting in a small bore metallic silhouette competition. At 100 yards, through the spotting scope, you could actually see the bullet flying, just before it hit the target.
In former Yugoslavia both boys and girls had so called "pre military training" in schools where they used to have basic military education including rifle firing from air rifles to M48(yugo mauser). But after that only boys had 1 year of military service.
With the low cost of PCP or just pump air rifles The UK used a strange .31 cadet cartridge for sometime, I feel the value of air rifles is great even for military and the cost of .177 pellets or even round lead balls (powder coating for safety and gloves in with extractors or nonlead) electric recoil and dry fire systems then .22lr subsonic and service cartridges. I would avoid spring air rifles as to fire them accurately you have 2 recoil impulses and to shoot them well you have to let the piston recoil forward as in hold and cheek it lightly in way that lets it travel then the minimal back recoil so it's like a nano AA gun so could give bad habits.
@luked2767 I stick with the traditional, combat tested favorites. Coffee, smokes, pharmaceutical grade amphetamines and the occasional shot of liquor. Bonus is it helps keep you semi- regular whilst shitting in a small hole. Old School solutions for present day problems. Cheers!
@@jmjones7897 I worked in a family hotel with 48 rooms with a bar/club and to check in you had to go to the bar that was 24/7. Worst injuries were from "glassing" as in smashing a glass into someone's face so used thick plastic that little looked like glass on the weekends and most big brands have a version with plastic bottles for beer and girly drinks. Also women using using stiletto heels.... Plastic ashtrays as we had a buzzer we let people smoke well at least I did also I opened a dining room so they could sniff. I could drink on shift and got alot of tips and lines lol. I would always check rooms as you would often find valuables people forgot like money, drugs and sometimes guns ranging from awful zip guns and blank firers converted with a copper .177 BB on the end to some nice WW1 - 2 era stuff. Comblock, Turkish and sometimes new European but with USA markings. Hotel did a deal with the gov for asylum seekers but after 3 days and sexual harassment from men from certain nations we told the government we would not be accepting any males and only accept females after interview and demanded a much higher price (they where already paying 3x the rate and after it was about 5x) so we mostly just accepted hot girls with no kids from places like ukraine, East Asia and the middle east if no Hijab. Had some cheap small rooms and some nice suites, as we had a monthly rate we had quite a few onlyfans girls from different nations and I would get a call to do some "work" for cash Had to sell the place when my father died last year as it was not making much profit. It was the last family owned hotel in my city , last 24/7 bar, no privately owned B+Bs or freehold pubs/bars just some air b+B the rest are all owned by big company's. I miss it.
An interesting little rifle, and given the fouling in the bore you discovered, it shot pretty well. Can you imagine letting kids nowadays loose with one of those (or even twenty lol) in the school playground shooting range? It don't bear thinking about!
I am german, and read , Deutsches Waffenjournal ' since 1982. Years ago a reader of those magazin send a photo with a question: This soldier seems very young, what kind of unit could this be? The answer was, it could be a member of a , Schülerkompagnie' ( pupils company), which existed in Imperial Germany at some schools with 6mm Flobert rifles.
In canada we had shooting ranges in schools for quite a while, some were still used up until the 80s, i genuinely think an after school shooting program would still have plenty to offer to kids for teaching discipline and a hobby that doesnt involve a computer. Not to mention spreading firearm safety and knowledge. Sadly, polotics got in the way, and it will likely never come back. Hopefully cadet programs will be able to fulfill that role.
These are similar to our US school rifles, just way older looking. My school uses .22 for their rifles, and they're a lot more compact, but stilp single shot bolt.
There was a kind of punch and die that was used to upset the bullet to fit the bullet to loose bores. Something like that could be used to modify CB caps to your gun, perhaps.
We have a mini Lebel in 22lr or so I think since that is what we shoot without issues. It has more simple bolt face and conventional extractor. Says AF on receiver and No. 3 on the barrel and a serial #. Nearly a 3/4 scale version of the Lebel rifle except the rear stock is longer. Rear sight has no provision for windage adjustment. To remove the bolt there is a screw in the side of the receiver you take out. The action and cocking piece are identical to the actual battle rifle. Weighs in at about 4.75 lbs.
I lost the drift of your logic. What I know about guns I could write on a postage stamp and still have space for the new testament. So I gathered that this rifle is chambered for .22 ammunition yet, you can't use ordinary .22 ammunition as it'll "smear lead" down the bore. So what's the difference between the bore of this rifle, when compared to a normal .22 rifle?
As I explained, it’s not chambered for 22 (nominal 5.6mm), it is chambered for 6mm. A 22 bullet will rattle its way down the bore. I can fit a 22LR cartridge in the muzzle all the way down to the rim. Modern “6mm” Flobert ammo is actually sized to 22LR bore size.
@@thebotrchap Ah. So it's like a metric equivalent but not quite the same? Rather like using a 13mm spanner on a half inch nut. Not exact but almost the same.
@ Originally no equivalence whatsoever. But modern 6mm Flobert has been downsized to .22 dimensions, most probably for convenience and convention since most of the true 6mm Bosquette rifles have been replaced by 22 equivalents. A few current manufacturers are honest and state it is 5.5mm.
The 1 plate isn't necessarily a rack number, British cadet lee Enfield (.22LR) are permitted up to 3 blemishes in the rifling indicated by a similar plate, considered ok for training & an allowance for grouping being made for each blemish, marksman qualifying test would be shot with one of the un-number rifles i.e with an undamaged barrel which given thier age & cadet users were becoming harder to find
Save the brass cartridges. You can reload rimfires very easily. There is a guy that sells kits here in the states for about 75 usd. I believe it's called sharpshooter 22 rimfire reloader. He's here in colorado. Great guy to do business with. He's a very small business and is always backed up so bear with the wait times. Anyhow...you will need to get a custom bullet mold from lee which my understanding is that it is easy to do and doesn't cost much.
I’m sure it’s possible but it’s really not worth the effort considering how much I plan to use it. I have around 700 vintage rounds for it which will probably last me for period in which I’ll be its custodian.
@@thebotrchapas you published about finnish brutality I though you had some close relationships with him . I wan't bother you no more and I thank you for your answers.
I spent my 17th Birthday at the St. Louis MEPS Station for the express and fully legal purpose of enlistment in the United States Army. I believe 16 year olds were eligible for enlistment in British Service in this time period ( 1980's) w/ certain restrictions/ separate course of training and service( ie no foriegn deployment) as minors. Any fit, mentally competent and reasonably mature 16-17 year old young Man is not a child, but a Military Aged Male.
Do believe that would be more the Norks and Russians.( sending anyone BUT ethnic Russian kids. Apparently running short of Buryats and such so call up your boy Lil Kim) that are big on indoctrnating and employing minors in combat. Chicoms are a bit short on disposable youth because Scientific Materialsm/Great Leap Forward/1 Child ( kill your daughters) Policy or some other such genius Red Han Bullshit.
Perhaps paperjacket the .22 bullets with the correct paper can solve the issue. For thos who don't knew what is a paperjacket bullet, find the paper jacket by paul matthews, and you'll have somes answers.
I wonder, who paid (and choose) the rifles? It wasn't the army or the Education Nationale (Secretary of public schools), because then the rifles would have been standardized? It was on the Mairie (city office) duty to buy them? Or teacher had a budget and choose by themselves on a catalog/magazine and it passed on the yearly school budget ? (Yeah, it's not that of a big deal, it's just interesting to know which jurisdiction of my place was in charge of that 😊)
Custom spun solid copper projectiles and swedged/trimmed .22 short or long casing load workup rounds incoming! 😂 I fully support Chap's addiction of potentially making $1-2 per shot ammunition for what was meant to be a very cheap to shoot a short range training /club rifle! 🤣👍
For once I’ll let this one alone 😅I have about 700rnds of the vintage ammo which is probably more than enough for the years I have left as custodian of this little rifle.
As a French citizen, to me, the idea sound okay as long you don't have self loading firearms, and sound a good idea as long as you don't have gun control laws. Since like 1945 and especially the 90's, with no conscription, a'd more gun controls and all, it sounds less necessary : you won't have a firearm before the army, or without being in a firearm club or without a hunt licence, and those 3 instances have teaching, so, no need to learn about firearm before that. But when all houses had guns? Yeah, that sound necessary
@mr.powell8817 with kids, I'm pretty sure they would find a way to bump fire, or that, overall, an incident would happen easier than a manual loading firearm + the goal here is to learn proper sight use/techniques, and safety, you don't nead self loading for that. + when you can shoot faster, you shoot faster. At a young age, dopamine control is finicky, I rather have them take their time to do marksmanship well, that to learn them "how to manage recoil to keep on target as fast and effective as you can". Like, it's not about to know how to do a quick Mozambique or bill drill.
My possibly wrong and controversial opinion is that I think gun control is largely a big reason why NATO countries are so generally unprepared for war now. I think the reason the US far outperforms other nations when it comes to small arms production is that companies can eat up some of the research loss with civilian sales. Also just a general societal interest in the sport probably instills an idea of the military being a viable thing for citizens. It sounds like despite Russia having a level of gun control, their population is at least somewhat familiar with the AK series rifle in school (I think they mandate a certain amount of hours per student or something for "patriotic training"). In my country specifically (Canada) our military has become kind of famous for being plagued with issues. I strongly believe that in the event of an invasion our biggest ability to defend ourselves would be the efforts of hunters and sports shooters (again maybe wrong). I also am amazed how the culture around ownership makes many think it's unobtainable, when really you just have to attend a safety course which is incredibly reasonable. Firearm ownership is also not really controversial here at all, Many just think others will think it is.
@fastestdino2 well, that's why gun ownership is much much easier in Poland and Czech Republic and Finland (and, I suppose, Slovakia). The closer to Russia : more guns and or conscription. But in the western part of Europe : why bother preparing an invasion or occupation? For a full scale war in the east, you rather have your French citizen with good production power stay in the country (to produce high values missiles and others), and just send (kinda Russia nowadays) the unqualified citizens to the front. And with the polarization of France/Spain/Italy societies + things linked to immigrations/minorities, and non Christian religion, I clearly don't want that all kids learn how to use guns 😅 Don't arm people you might have problems with 😅 Meanwhile, in Poland, they don't have such issues, so it's okay for them to have easy gun ownership
Excellent video thank you. The funny part is that Jules Ferry, the french minister that invented the bataillon scolaire, is often view as the epitome of exellence in education by a lot of centrist/left politicials leader today in France. The same who are anti gun and would be argue that bringing guns to school would be totaly irresponsible plus leading to many accidents because the young today are playing fornite... I guess they just don't know about the bataillons scolaire.
Imagine this today in the uk! Gun hysteria is so out of control here, parents frown at pink water pistols, and want to bring their boys up non binary (until they realise boys will be boys). I’m busy subverting my nephew, steering him away from effeminate pass times, and into fishing, shrimping and eventually shooting (he’s on nerf guns atm). Soon to progress onto gel blasters, and learning proper range discipline, safe knife handling, how to make fires etc.
Yeh I’ve been reading about UK police raiding the homes of 100% legal gun owners (no criminal records, fully compliant in regards bureaucratic demands of purchasing & ownership, no incidents that demand bureaucratic response, etc) & simply taking away all the guns even though they met all required storage laws.
Plenty of UK private schools have cadet forces and rifle ranges. I went to one, learning on the mighty No.8 Mk.1, whereas the poor kids these days have to use the terrible Savage L144A1...
Army/navy/air cadet & school based combined cadet forces(CCF) in UK all do rifle training, it may have changed since 2000 when I was an air cadet range officer but then all cadets were expected to do at least 1 live firing range each year I actually signed one cadets training record as whist technically competent lacked the discipline to be trusted with live ammunition, that meant the entire group with him at annual camp had their range practice scheduled to the last day of camp by which time he'd been sent home due to his inadequate discipline
Are you sure its 6 flobert only? I've seen some french advertisements from the era stating it also shoots 6mm/22 "longue et extra longue". Dont know if those were rechambered for the civilian market or if the offial school versions were always 22 flobert. Do know military cadets had 22 short and long versions. There are stories about cadets defending their school with 22's against the germans. Look it up, info is online.
@@thebotrchapi once had a carbine take down version of this as a teen. Only owned it, never used it nor had ammo because of the law here in the Netherlands. Sold it to a guy who almost blew his nostrills of with a 22L blank and a airgun pellet. He claimed smokeless had swaged the chamber out but i think some frenchmen rechambered(drilled...) it to 22 magnum. Ive been told French poachers prefer 22 magnum for deer because of sound, availability and less severe penalties.
@@thebotrchaphaha you must be french😂 A lot is possible in france. I know guys who buy whatever ammo they want in some French shops. As long as they speak French and have cash the seller is willing to help foreign customers🤫
Very cool video! I love milsurps trainers! I have an old St. Etienne made "Populaire" in 9mm rimfire. It's the civilian version of the "Scolaire" or military cadet training model. It's very interesting. I picked up the barrel, receiver and stock at a gun show (I'm in the U.S.) for 30 bucks and the bolt assembly for 100 online.
Horrible "accuracy" compared to a contemporary evereryday airrifle. I even have a round ball BB rifle, co2 powered, that will shoot groupes of less than 25mm at 20m. (With crude open sights, I might add. Rifle beeing Umarex Cowboy lever action rifle.) Interesting video though!
Blasphemy, weird British lathe in the land of Schaublin and Oerlikon!😀 In my youth (80s) we also had guns at school, BB guns for practice than 98K clone and SKS clone.
@@thebotrchap Nothing is cheap these days and CH is expensive land. I understand you completly. I have chosen nice lathe and nice milling machine over better grade car, but that is me. Having nice collection of rifles and pistols (for me) is also something worth of admire, but i can not afford bouth. One or two works for now. Your lathe is fine, i was just joking.
It’s not so much the conkers that were the problem, more the err creative ways we had of hastily drilling the hole for the string. I still have the scars from stabbing myself with skewers, compasses or drill bits 😅 🩸
Here in the US some highschools and many college's still have a rifle or skeet club. I think more schools should teach gun saftey and how to properly respect firearms.
My grandfather did rifle training for the Boy Scouts until the late 70s. I had a good time but I guess we aren’t supposed to know about firearms anymore.
@Who-ry8of Well, we're still here!
Nothing unusual for a child of the 70's-80's
Cheers
Yeah but if they were really effective you wouldn't have the same president.
What is that supposed to mean? Speak plainly, friend.
@@Vaasref
2015 I was on my highschool rifle team, USA new England
I am from the UK and my senior school (1975-1979) had a cadet unit (CCF) based in it. We had an armoury and on the top floor we had a couple of class rooms with folding walls so we could shoot up to 30m. We had .22 lr converted Lee Enfield's and some regular .22lr bolt action rifles. I actually think it was a great idea and promoted discipline and responsibility.
I went to Maidstone Grammar School in the UK during the 90s, which was rare for State-funded schools in having a CCF (Combined Cadet Force). The school had it's own armoury in the mock-Tudor gatehouse, and a dedicated 25m range for .22 shooting - we used the Lee-Enfield 'Rifle No.8' for the purpose. Full-bore shooting (with either the old .303 Lee-Enfield 'Rifle No.4', or the then-new 5.56mm L98 'Cadet GP Rifle') took place off-site, often down at the MoD ranges at Hythe on the Kent coast. Happy, happy days! :-)
When i was in the cadets we had no 9 ( no4 single shot .22lr SMLE conversions) I'm not sure if they drilled the barrel to put in a .22lr or new but very thick then the mag was inserted with a steel block and we had some old NATO converted SMLEs with an optic and the .22 was lighter. We had some nice martini .22s as a cadet died and his father donated some in the 70s but by this time we had modern light .22lr rifles we also had SA80 old spec deactivation as drill rifles, we had a couple of straight pull SA80 cadet rifles but you would just use that for your first couple of shots of 5.56 then we would just use standard issue SA80A2 rifles with optics on semi and sometimes full also the LSW and carbine versions.
We also had some hi-powers and Glock 17s as it was an indoor rifle range used by the military rated to 7.62 NATO but they had a US M16A2 that everyone preferred, a FAL an AKM and an MP5 I think for weapon familiarisation 1 MOD DMR AR10 style in 7.62 NATO. No belt feds but an old converted 7.62 NATO bren and a no4 SMLE in .303 with some very old ammo, I think it was privately owned same with a 8mm Mauser maybe from WW2 but we never got to shoot it as the ammo was for private use.
I was ACF (i.e. not school associated) in the late 60’s. We had No 8 and Martini rifles for the 22 range at our base and No 4 rifles and Bren guns for when we went to full bore ranges.
@@charlesphillips4575 I was similar but it was a mixed ATC/ATF but since it was a reasonably sized base as a storage depot and hospital that was old it had its own indoor fullbore range. It looked like everything was stuck in the 50s even though it was the 2010s, the only thing that made it look modern where some computers for flight simulators and the armys combat simulator (shooting game) oh and it was about half girls, and that was litraly the first time I had seen any female classmates wearing a skirt as most of the time it was a parade uniform.
At first it was pretty fun as we got to take days off school for flying lessons and we all preferred the older training aircraft.
Went shooting pretty often and went to camps then slowly just like the whole British military funding for everything was cut so when half of the time it became parade marching practise so most left.
The no. 9 rifles you realy had to slam the bolt forward or the firing pin would not hit the Jim properly.
Whenever we first went to try and get the shooting badge they would bring out the martini rifles but they had a story behind them and both had a plaque on the stock.
Realy nice and light .22 martinis with target sights and adjustable stocks, a cadet in the 70s died during work experience in highschool when he was helping to lay bricks and the wall fell and killed him, he liked shooting so his family purchased the rifles and donated them to the cadets but it's nice to see that I'm sure even today they are being used, the replacement .22s for the 8/9 felt quite cheap but very light as allnof the 9s they had where in realy bad condition.
We still got shooting teams, but trying to get a magazine for the anschuz was out of the question
I teach highschool in US. Ive been trying to start a rifle and skeet club for years. Much enthusiasm. Much resistance.
Must be unfortunate when people stop listening after you say “school shooting” regardless of what actually follows it.
What state are you in?
@ denile apparently.
we have diversity now though
Hopefully things will change for the better. Your students are lucky to have a teacher who'd like to give them such an opportunity.
At boarding school in Yorkshire we had 22lr Anschutz single-shot target rifles for the rifle club, and manually-operated SA80s for the CCF.
That's a loooooong barrel for a cartridge without any appreciable amount powder. I wonder how much velocity the bullets lose due to friction. Edit, never trust anything gun related that says it's "self cleaning".
Re “self cleaning” yes indeed 😅
I unfortunately to not have access to an original manual but I wouldn’t be surprised if the bore was to be lightly oiled at regular intervals when shooting as you sometimes see recommended in period manuals for when using gallery loads in full bore rifles.
Great history and geeky detail's. Love your posts Chappie
The French are surprisingly clever but do like to try out daft ideas
I’ve worked for several US companies that were that way.
@@davewatson309 see the OCC-105-F1 anti-tank shell for a clever design that also happens to be completely bonkers 🇫🇷🥖
Thank you for addressing this (today) very little-known topic.
I also own a "La Préférée" but have never shot it for lack of appropriate ammo.
Shooting was part of the official curriculum in France until 1939.
To put this in perspective, there were practically no gun laws in France until that date too, and shooting and gun ownership _and also apparently carry_ were very popular.
The Flobert cartridge was also used for living-room shooting at the time - and no, I'm not making this up.
My pleasure.
Being overtly or covertly armed was common throughout most of Europe at the time as evidenced by the huge amount of pocket pistols in 25acp and 32acp from that time that are still around today.
Also used for carnival shooting games
Back when i was an army cadet at the age of 14 (4th Royal Corps of Transport) in my home city of Liverpool, we trained with .303 Enfileds and the L1A1 7.62mm SLR rifles for drill/parade and range shooting. Also had the thrill and pleasure of firing the .303 Bren and the 9mm Sterling SMG. Then when i served in the Royal Air Force at the age of 18 until discharged on medical grounds i again trained and used the L1A1 SLR then the piece of crap 5.56mm SA80 when they fazed out the SLR.
1871 France was in fact more pro-gun than the US today.
Also no "mass shootings" back then except for the school championship.
No mass medication back then, either.
C’mon bruh. 🤨 If you actually want to promote gun rights, you can’t be spouting nonsense. The first semi-auto pistol wasn’t invented until 1891, and the concept didn’t see commercial success until the Borchardt C93.
The problems in the USA (which I agree are vastly overblown by the media) are clearly a confluence of technology, America’s particular laws, and America’s particular “CoMe AnD tAkE iT” reactionary gun movement. There’s always going to be homicidal maniacs it’s true, but the idea that there’s nothing we could even try changing to limit the damage… that’s just absurd. We can do better.
@@falseprofit9801 I personally think USA's biggest problems with guns are due to easy access of worlds biggest black market, lack of common sense education, stupid laws as you mentioned, loss of morality in society and in families and mental health issues.
There was a school shooting in Scotland where the pupils shot a teacher back in the black powder days.
Muslims were only in the colonies at that time
When I was in university I was an Officer Cadet in the RCAF. Our mess was at McGill University and we used the McGill indoor rifle range. We used No.4 rifles that were chambered in .22. The ammunition was made in the same year I was born - 1944. The guns were taken away from us after the FLQ raided an armory in Montreal and walked off with a bunch of FNs. If the FNs were ever recovered I never heard about it.
The who raided an armory?
@@data_abort The FLQ - Front de Liberation de Quebec. A terrorist group active in Quebec in the 60s.
Here in Australia when I was going to high school in the 70’s & early 80’s school cadets still existed in govt high schools, but over time teachers with military or militia experiance became too thin on the ground, with the compulsory self defence militia (they were not allowed to be deployed abroad outside of Australia territories) ending around 63 or something. Although they still exist in the poncy private schools
My late mother -rip- knew a woman from French Algeria who was trained with one of these in school.
In the small town I live in pubs have tubes built into a wall leading to target. . 22lr These where in response to dreadfull marksmanship after the bore war. Devizes in Wiltshire had 7 pubs but I am not sure how many are left, the lamb pub has a team that competes against other pubs. People walking into a pub in Britain with a gun would be shocking In big city's but hear its quite normal. I believe Birmingham has a bell target league for airguns and this used to be very popular, if you hit the bull it rang a bell
Must have been a rather uneventful conflict to get the name Bore War. 😂
This training rifle is classified exactly in the same category as ball trap Shotguns with 10 cartridges capacity, army sniper .50 Rifles,…
Our french laws SUCKS !
Ben oui que veux-tu, 6mm Bosquette Delamortquitue c’est hyper dangereux 💀 😅
Change them.
Euros love to complain but keep voting for the same party year after year
@@M8Military Biggest part of the population are boomers, no matter how young people vote, they will not be heard.
Stop trying to analyse laws from a country that you don't even know.
My father was in ROTC in high school and they used to shoot .22 rifles in the basement.
That's amazing. Here in Chile i went to a Swiss school and we had a 10m air rifle range, and even that was considered an oddity. I think they do archery now.
Swiss here. Interesting to hear, that Swiss schools were even exporting our gun culture...
I grew up in France, entering elementary school in the fall of 1963. We had a really traditionalist, old-fashioned teacher who insisted on teaching us the Geography of France and the colonies, even though the colonial empire was already gone for good. She also taught us many subjects that were actual life skills in her "leçons de choses", which were similar in orientation to what my kids in Israel had to endure in the first decade of this Century under the title of "Sciences". I was riveted! She talked about absolutely everything, including how firearms work. I confess I liked her class on trains and locomotives a lot better because of the cool illustrations! As a pre-teen, I did shoot every possible Flobert toy at the fun fair, including a few really cool semi-autos and a Margolin pistol that might have been in .22 short, because this was the only way that my Dad could transmit, at great expense, a little bit of that side of his wisdom, but really, it was too easy!
To the point: I have now reached a ripe old age, and I had never heard about this French school firearms instruction thing! So a big thank you M'sieur BOTR, for making me incrementally less ignorant!
I had a similar such rifle about ten years ago. 6mm Bosquet was still in an ammunition supplier’s stock. Possibly NOS? I did exactly the same as yours as one might expect. Quickly succumbed to a shooting colleagues desire to buy it for his young son’s use and he found it fine for the task. He did track down a rare box of 6mm long which chambers and fired five rounds of that one day at 50metres and it did fine.
I suspect the official choice of 6mm Bosquet was to see off foreign .22 short and support French ammunition manufacturers and also to limit the range at which naughty boys could misuse the school rifles. Thank you for the video and the old advertisements.
Mine is definitely made only for standard short 6mm. The rifling starts about 5-6mm in from the breech face.
Lí hollow
@@thebotrchapOff topic but... I kind of need your help.
I was on an auction site bidding on a PPK blank firer for reenactment, due to armagnac accidentally bought a French drill rifle
I know NOTHING about French military procurement. I'd like to repair the bolt and replace the handle that's come off and work out what bayonet it would néed.
Reciever is marked MAS, it's a metal reciever and bolt, wood stock, with rubber parts for bolt handle and some other bits. No Moving parts at all. Has a bayonet lug.
Would you be able to help?
@ I don’t know about helping with bits but I’d like to see some pics for sure and I can ask around for info on French forums 👍 Get in touch on botr.contact@gmail.com
Thank you for sharing ! I actually have one of these in my collection and I knew little of it before watching your content.
Excellent videos. I like your content on FFL (Legionnaires) firearms. Keep it up.
What a sweet thing! I used to collect smallbore training rifles, loosely WW2 and earlier, most were .22rf LR but ISTR a .22short. I had a "German rifle" which had a visually similar bolt and action to this one: goodness knows its origin and history!
I wouldn’t be surprised if the Germans had a corresponding scheme and rifles
it was propably a KKW (Klein-Kalieber-Wehrsport - small-caliber-army-sport)
I use to fire those 6 mm rimfire rounds out of a .22 revolver and they were very dirty and rapidly fouled the gun.I never took one apart to know if they had a powder change in them but from a revolver they would go a bit further into wood than a Gecado 27 .177 air rifle i had at the time and I would think that the air rifle was about 625 FPS at the muzzle.
Would not be so expensive to get a smith to drill the barrel and put in a .22 liner, may increase the value of the rifle or just buy one in .22lr
Get a 6mm short nailgun blank lowest power, open up the crimp half assed and glue a 6mm lead ball on (if you don't want to uncrimp it then glue some 6mm plastic dowl then a ball.
Pretty sure it would handle the most powerful long 6mm /.22lr nailgun blank just fine but may have to use a rod to extract it
I honestly don't see the problem. In the US this training would be similar, to our current Junior Reserved Officer Training Corps. Sound like the French version was more intensive but exercise is never bad and firearms training at an early age makes for safer kids.
Looks like the bolt design lets you accelerate the bolt rearwards quite a bit before actually starting the extraction, which probably helps the ejection.
It does. The bolt can travel freely over the distance it takes to deploy the feed tray. In actual fact it’s not really deployed, rather the feed tray stays put as the bolt is retracted, held in place by a lug on the extractor shaft. Once that distance is traveled by the bolt it hits the resistance of the extractor spring and needs a firm shove to work it.
All this brings to mind the School Cadets here in Australia who I used to envy as a kid when I saw them on the public transport with their Enfield No1Mk3* rifles (in .22LR, but I didn't know it at the time). I did a bit of research and apparently the concept arose about 1851, and just after the turn of the century, the School Cadets were being equipped with cute little mini-Martinis made by BSA and Greener in .310 or 297/230 Morris calibres, with the internal mechanism redesigned by Auguste Francotte to permit removal from the receiver as a single unit. An interesting side-note for Martini-Henry collectors !
When I went to Hatfield Polytechnic in the late 1970s Wednesday afternoon was club time. I used to go shooting at the DE Haviland indoor range. I always remember the Martini Henry action rifle, and the Webley "service" revolver in 22 short. There was also a Russian target pistol, that had to be repaired. After it once went bang and shot a small piece of it's self backwards when fired.
Oh, my dad went to Hatfield Poly in the early 70's!
It’s a good thing my partner and I are able to be together while doing our own things cus I’m never not watching a new video of The Chaps esoterica.
I´ve got one, similar as in the video but in 22LR. I´cant find much information about these though. Where it was made or date manufactured. There´s a serial nr but no factory id.
Fascinating. Having spent twenty five years running a school target rifle club in the UK as well as working with Cadets at the school, we taught on the good old No.8 .22LR rifle for many years, until, sadly it was finaly withdrawn and replaced by the reprehensibly poor Savage model. (What a terrible rifle that is!!) The better option always being anything from our range of Anschutz and Walther target rifles! Eventually, moving onto the full bore target rifles; both cadet version and civvi rifles.
The history of school shooting clubs is fascinating and it was so interesting to discover this French 'version' compared to how we did things in Britain across the years.
Thank you for a great demo. 👍🏻
I suppose that your nice selection of little machine tools could be put to use to make your own bullet molds for particularly exotic ammunition.
I had a shooting club in my highschool - as an extra part of our Civil Defense classes back in... let me think... around 1990, right where the communism fell in Poland. We shot .22 LR "Short Battle Sport Rifle". Great fun, especially since the shooting range was in a corridor next to the vegetable storage for school kitchen and sometimes someone snuck an onion behind the target. Soft billet made those onions explode quite impressively :)
I think school gun/rifle classes are a good idea - to teach people what guns are, how to handle them safely, demystify guns and even make them a bit boring and mundane.
Those were some funky rifles
Chap, there is a way to shoot .22Short or .22 Long in this rifle and still both maintain bore centricity and avoiding case rupture: wrap a layer of Sellotape around the cartridge case. Same applies to firing .22LR in .22Magnum chambers.
This reminds me of the time i was spotting for a friend shooting in a small bore metallic silhouette competition. At 100 yards, through the spotting scope, you could actually see the bullet flying, just before it hit the target.
In former Yugoslavia both boys and girls had so called "pre military training" in schools where they used to have basic military education including rifle firing from air rifles to M48(yugo mauser). But after that only boys had 1 year of military service.
Fascinating bit of history.
With the low cost of PCP or just pump air rifles
The UK used a strange .31 cadet cartridge for sometime, I feel the value of air rifles is great even for military and the cost of .177 pellets or even round lead balls (powder coating for safety and gloves in with extractors or nonlead) electric recoil and dry fire systems then .22lr subsonic and service cartridges.
I would avoid spring air rifles as to fire them accurately you have 2 recoil impulses and to shoot them well you have to let the piston recoil forward as in hold and cheek it lightly in way that lets it travel then the minimal back recoil so it's like a nano AA gun so could give bad habits.
Inexpensive PCP and projectile weapons are a dangerous combination:^)
@jmjones7897 it's ok you just have round it out with opiates and benzos, pretty sure some groups use PCP in battle lol
@luked2767 I stick with the traditional, combat tested favorites.
Coffee, smokes, pharmaceutical grade amphetamines and the occasional shot of liquor.
Bonus is it helps keep you semi- regular whilst shitting in a small hole.
Old School solutions for present day problems.
Cheers!
@luked2767 Any Stool, bottle or ashtray in a Bar Fight, right?
Hooah
@@jmjones7897 I worked in a family hotel with 48 rooms with a bar/club and to check in you had to go to the bar that was 24/7. Worst injuries were from "glassing" as in smashing a glass into someone's face so used thick plastic that little looked like glass on the weekends and most big brands have a version with plastic bottles for beer and girly drinks.
Also women using using stiletto heels.... Plastic ashtrays as we had a buzzer we let people smoke well at least I did also I opened a dining room so they could sniff. I could drink on shift and got alot of tips and lines lol. I would always check rooms as you would often find valuables people forgot like money, drugs and sometimes guns ranging from awful zip guns and blank firers converted with a copper .177 BB on the end to some nice WW1 - 2 era stuff. Comblock, Turkish and sometimes new European but with USA markings.
Hotel did a deal with the gov for asylum seekers but after 3 days and sexual harassment from men from certain nations we told the government we would not be accepting any males and only accept females after interview and demanded a much higher price (they where already paying 3x the rate and after it was about 5x) so we mostly just accepted hot girls with no kids from places like ukraine, East Asia and the middle east if no Hijab.
Had some cheap small rooms and some nice suites, as we had a monthly rate we had quite a few onlyfans girls from different nations and I would get a call to do some "work" for cash
Had to sell the place when my father died last year as it was not making much profit.
It was the last family owned hotel in my city , last 24/7 bar, no privately owned B+Bs or freehold pubs/bars just some air b+B the rest are all owned by big company's.
I miss it.
An interesting little rifle, and given the fouling in the bore you discovered, it shot pretty well. Can you imagine letting kids nowadays loose with one of those (or even twenty lol) in the school playground shooting range? It don't bear thinking about!
I am german, and read , Deutsches Waffenjournal ' since 1982. Years ago a reader of those magazin send a photo with a question: This soldier seems very young, what kind of unit could this be? The answer was, it could be a member of a , Schülerkompagnie' ( pupils company), which existed in Imperial Germany at some schools with 6mm Flobert rifles.
In canada we had shooting ranges in schools for quite a while, some were still used up until the 80s, i genuinely think an after school shooting program would still have plenty to offer to kids for teaching discipline and a hobby that doesnt involve a computer. Not to mention spreading firearm safety and knowledge. Sadly, polotics got in the way, and it will likely never come back. Hopefully cadet programs will be able to fulfill that role.
I think it could come back honestly. School districts in general are far too concerned with one parent complaining.
Chronograph figures would be interesting.
Unfortunately I think the age and inconsistency of the ammo would lead to ballpark readings at best.
These are similar to our US school rifles, just way older looking. My school uses .22 for their rifles, and they're a lot more compact, but stilp single shot bolt.
There was a kind of punch and die that was used to upset the bullet to fit the bullet to loose bores. Something like that could be used to modify CB caps to your gun, perhaps.
We have a mini Lebel in 22lr or so I think since that is what we shoot without issues. It has more simple bolt face and conventional extractor. Says AF on receiver and No. 3 on the barrel and a serial #. Nearly a 3/4 scale version of the Lebel rifle except the rear stock is longer. Rear sight has no provision for windage adjustment. To remove the bolt there is a screw in the side of the receiver you take out. The action and cocking piece are identical to the actual battle rifle. Weighs in at about 4.75 lbs.
For a moment I thought you left the anti theft tag on your shirt... But I'm ill, so not thinking properly 😅
I lost the drift of your logic. What I know about guns I could write on a postage stamp and still have space for the new testament. So I gathered that this rifle is chambered for .22 ammunition yet, you can't use ordinary .22 ammunition as it'll "smear lead" down the bore. So what's the difference between the bore of this rifle, when compared to a normal .22 rifle?
As I explained, it’s not chambered for 22 (nominal 5.6mm), it is chambered for 6mm. A 22 bullet will rattle its way down the bore. I can fit a 22LR cartridge in the muzzle all the way down to the rim. Modern “6mm” Flobert ammo is actually sized to 22LR bore size.
@@thebotrchap Ah. So it's like a metric equivalent but not quite the same? Rather like using a 13mm spanner on a half inch nut. Not exact but almost the same.
@ Originally no equivalence whatsoever. But modern 6mm Flobert has been downsized to .22 dimensions, most probably for convenience and convention since most of the true 6mm Bosquette rifles have been replaced by 22 equivalents. A few current manufacturers are honest and state it is 5.5mm.
Western Canada high school in Calgary Alberta had a pellet gun range in the basement…
Very interesting thanks!
Thank you too 😜
learning to defend yourself and your country is a good thing, especially if you learn how to protect yourself from a tyrannical government.
Very cool that you are using a Swiss Army blanket! :-)
The 1 plate isn't necessarily a rack number, British cadet lee Enfield (.22LR) are permitted up to 3 blemishes in the rifling indicated by a similar plate, considered ok for training & an allowance for grouping being made for each blemish, marksman qualifying test would be shot with one of the un-number rifles i.e with an undamaged barrel which given thier age & cadet users were becoming harder to find
Save the brass cartridges. You can reload rimfires very easily. There is a guy that sells kits here in the states for about 75 usd. I believe it's called sharpshooter 22 rimfire reloader. He's here in colorado. Great guy to do business with. He's a very small business and is always backed up so bear with the wait times. Anyhow...you will need to get a custom bullet mold from lee which my understanding is that it is easy to do and doesn't cost much.
I’m sure it’s possible but it’s really not worth the effort considering how much I plan to use it. I have around 700 vintage rounds for it which will probably last me for period in which I’ll be its custodian.
@thebotrchap ... Ah ha...
MYFORD machine in the background? Or?
Yessir
@@thebotrchap What a lucky guy.
@@thebotrchap And as far as i may understand you are a near friend with him.nice
@ Sorry, who are you referring to?
@@thebotrchapas you published about finnish brutality I though you had some close relationships with him . I wan't bother you no more and I thank you for your answers.
No more child solders... Agreed.
But somehow the Chinese have missed the memo.
I spent my 17th Birthday at the St. Louis MEPS Station for the express and fully legal purpose of enlistment in the United States Army.
I believe 16 year olds were eligible for enlistment in British Service in this time period ( 1980's) w/ certain restrictions/ separate course of training and service( ie no foriegn deployment) as minors.
Any fit, mentally competent and reasonably mature 16-17 year old young Man is not a child, but a Military Aged Male.
My old man turned 18 leading indigenous in the Northern Highlands
Do believe that would be more the Norks and Russians.( sending anyone BUT ethnic Russian kids. Apparently running short of Buryats and such so call up your boy Lil Kim) that are big on indoctrnating and employing minors in combat.
Chicoms are a bit short on disposable youth because Scientific Materialsm/Great Leap Forward/1 Child ( kill your daughters) Policy or some other such genius Red Han Bullshit.
If they had that, i would not have dodged French class.
Perhaps paperjacket the .22 bullets with the correct paper can solve the issue. For thos who don't knew what is a paperjacket bullet, find the paper jacket by paul matthews, and you'll have somes answers.
Combien de Bosch est-ce que vous avez tirée ?
That's a beautiful rifle.
I wonder, who paid (and choose) the rifles?
It wasn't the army or the Education Nationale (Secretary of public schools), because then the rifles would have been standardized?
It was on the Mairie (city office) duty to buy them?
Or teacher had a budget and choose by themselves on a catalog/magazine and it passed on the yearly school budget ?
(Yeah, it's not that of a big deal, it's just interesting to know which jurisdiction of my place was in charge of that 😊)
I am guessing schools could choose out of a catalog but that it was ultimately the commune « mairie » that decided on the budget
@@thebotrchap okay thanks, that's what sound the more logical, even in the 2024 educational system (3 to 12 yo kids being on the city budget)
Custom spun solid copper projectiles and swedged/trimmed .22 short or long casing load workup rounds incoming! 😂 I fully support Chap's addiction of potentially making $1-2 per shot ammunition for what was meant to be a very cheap to shoot a short range training /club rifle! 🤣👍
For once I’ll let this one alone 😅I have about 700rnds of the vintage ammo which is probably more than enough for the years I have left as custodian of this little rifle.
As a French citizen, to me, the idea sound okay as long you don't have self loading firearms, and sound a good idea as long as you don't have gun control laws.
Since like 1945 and especially the 90's, with no conscription, a'd more gun controls and all, it sounds less necessary : you won't have a firearm before the army, or without being in a firearm club or without a hunt licence, and those 3 instances have teaching, so, no need to learn about firearm before that.
But when all houses had guns? Yeah, that sound necessary
Why no self loaders?
@mr.powell8817 with kids, I'm pretty sure they would find a way to bump fire, or that, overall, an incident would happen easier than a manual loading firearm
+ the goal here is to learn proper sight use/techniques, and safety, you don't nead self loading for that.
+ when you can shoot faster, you shoot faster. At a young age, dopamine control is finicky, I rather have them take their time to do marksmanship well, that to learn them "how to manage recoil to keep on target as fast and effective as you can".
Like, it's not about to know how to do a quick Mozambique or bill drill.
My possibly wrong and controversial opinion is that I think gun control is largely a big reason why NATO countries are so generally unprepared for war now. I think the reason the US far outperforms other nations when it comes to small arms production is that companies can eat up some of the research loss with civilian sales. Also just a general societal interest in the sport probably instills an idea of the military being a viable thing for citizens. It sounds like despite Russia having a level of gun control, their population is at least somewhat familiar with the AK series rifle in school (I think they mandate a certain amount of hours per student or something for "patriotic training").
In my country specifically (Canada) our military has become kind of famous for being plagued with issues. I strongly believe that in the event of an invasion our biggest ability to defend ourselves would be the efforts of hunters and sports shooters (again maybe wrong). I also am amazed how the culture around ownership makes many think it's unobtainable, when really you just have to attend a safety course which is incredibly reasonable. Firearm ownership is also not really controversial here at all, Many just think others will think it is.
@fastestdino2 well, that's why gun ownership is much much easier in Poland and Czech Republic and Finland (and, I suppose, Slovakia).
The closer to Russia : more guns and or conscription.
But in the western part of Europe : why bother preparing an invasion or occupation?
For a full scale war in the east, you rather have your French citizen with good production power stay in the country (to produce high values missiles and others), and just send (kinda Russia nowadays) the unqualified citizens to the front.
And with the polarization of France/Spain/Italy societies + things linked to immigrations/minorities, and non Christian religion, I clearly don't want that all kids learn how to use guns 😅
Don't arm people you might have problems with 😅
Meanwhile, in Poland, they don't have such issues, so it's okay for them to have easy gun ownership
Ah! French CCF!
I wonder what the velocity is
We can find out :)
Excellent video thank you. The funny part is that Jules Ferry, the french minister that invented the bataillon scolaire, is often view as the epitome of exellence in education by a lot of centrist/left politicials leader today in France. The same who are anti gun and would be argue that bringing guns to school would be totaly irresponsible plus leading to many accidents because the young today are playing fornite... I guess they just don't know about the bataillons scolaire.
Imagine this today in the uk! Gun hysteria is so out of control here, parents frown at pink water pistols, and want to bring their boys up non binary (until they realise boys will be boys). I’m busy subverting my nephew, steering him away from effeminate pass times, and into fishing, shrimping and eventually shooting (he’s on nerf guns atm). Soon to progress onto gel blasters, and learning proper range discipline, safe knife handling, how to make fires etc.
Yeh I’ve been reading about UK police raiding the homes of 100% legal gun owners (no criminal records, fully compliant in regards bureaucratic demands of purchasing & ownership, no incidents that demand bureaucratic response, etc) & simply taking away all the guns even though they met all required storage laws.
They certainly have been raiding legal gun owners.
Coz it’s easier than raiding unlawful gun possessers ……….🤔
Plenty of UK private schools have cadet forces and rifle ranges. I went to one, learning on the mighty No.8 Mk.1, whereas the poor kids these days have to use the terrible Savage L144A1...
Army/navy/air cadet & school based combined cadet forces(CCF) in UK all do rifle training, it may have changed since 2000 when I was an air cadet range officer but then all cadets were expected to do at least 1 live firing range each year I actually signed one cadets training record as whist technically competent lacked the discipline to be trusted with live ammunition, that meant the entire group with him at annual camp had their range practice scheduled to the last day of camp by which time he'd been sent home due to his inadequate discipline
The title should be French rifles school.
Are you sure its 6 flobert only? I've seen some french advertisements from the era stating it also shoots 6mm/22 "longue et extra longue".
Dont know if those were rechambered for the civilian market or if the offial school versions were always 22 flobert.
Do know military cadets had 22 short and long versions. There are stories about cadets defending their school with 22's against the germans. Look it up, info is online.
For mine yes I’m sure, rifling starts 5-6mm into the bore. A Long or XL case would be sitting in the rifling.
@@thebotrchapi once had a carbine take down version of this as a teen.
Only owned it, never used it nor had ammo because of the law here in the Netherlands.
Sold it to a guy who almost blew his nostrills of with a 22L blank and a airgun pellet.
He claimed smokeless had swaged the chamber out but i think some frenchmen rechambered(drilled...) it to 22 magnum. Ive been told French poachers prefer 22 magnum for deer because of sound, availability and less severe penalties.
@ With French hunters (often synonymous with poachers) anything is possible 😝
@@thebotrchaphaha you must be french😂 A lot is possible in france. I know guys who buy whatever ammo they want in some French shops. As long as they speak French and have cash the seller is willing to help foreign customers🤫
Velocity: Yes.
More like, some
Just a bit
it's a thing
C'est un teeeeemps, que les moins de cents aaaaaaans ne peuvent pas connaaaaitre
Very cool video! I love milsurps trainers! I have an old St. Etienne made "Populaire" in 9mm rimfire. It's the civilian version of the "Scolaire" or military cadet training model. It's very interesting. I picked up the barrel, receiver and stock at a gun show (I'm in the U.S.) for 30 bucks and the bolt assembly for 100 online.
Horrible "accuracy" compared to a contemporary evereryday airrifle. I even have a round ball BB rifle, co2 powered, that will shoot groupes of less than 25mm at 20m. (With crude open sights, I might add. Rifle beeing Umarex Cowboy lever action rifle.) Interesting video though!
Blasphemy, weird British lathe in the land of Schaublin and Oerlikon!😀
In my youth (80s) we also had guns at school, BB guns for practice than 98K clone and SKS clone.
I can’t afford the small fortune it costs for the tiniest Schaublin accessories.
@@thebotrchap Nothing is cheap these days and CH is expensive land. I understand you completly. I have chosen nice lathe and nice milling machine over better grade car, but that is me.
Having nice collection of rifles and pistols (for me) is also something worth of admire, but i can not afford bouth. One or two works for now.
Your lathe is fine, i was just joking.
@@sinisatrlin840I have no interest in cars other than reasonable comfort to get me from A➡️B. More money for hobbies that way 😊
Ah yes: I did so enjoy bayonet training in grade school.
schools here dont let the kids have conkers😅😅
It’s not so much the conkers that were the problem, more the err creative ways we had of hastily drilling the hole for the string. I still have the scars from stabbing myself with skewers, compasses or drill bits 😅 🩸
pourquoi on n'a pas eu droit a des FAMAS scolaires dans les années 80... je suis dégouté... 😭
Y’en avait bien en 22LR et à plomb 😇