Really interested in this, I'm considering doing the same but there is so much conflicting information. Can you give us full disclosure, are you being sponsored. I have full confidence that you will be truthful, I just know how hard it is to mention the negatives in that situation.
It is a sponsorship... We dont consider that to be a negative! They are a great company, and we only try to work with the trust worthy ones out there. But going lithium was in our plan since day 1, so if its wasnt with a collaboration, we would have found another way to get there.
@@SailingUma No problem, you'd be mad not to, didn't mean any offence, I've heard so many positive and negative comments about lithium that I have no idea what's what and it will be good to watch some real world results rather than listen to armchair computer warriors in there mums basement. I just wanted to understand where you were coming from.
Glad to hear it. We're excited to get out and test them too. Full disclosure, we never collaborate with companies that come with stipulation. It's one of the reasons it takes us so long to upgrade things sometimes. But many companies want you to say certain things, or title your video certain ways. But we always turn them down. We always choose companies that let us go our own way. It's a good way to weed out cheap from quality. If a product is good, and the company trusts it's own stuff, than they know it and we know it and then you know it. We turn down SOOoO many offers that come with scripts or talking points or other stipulations, but those just feel dishonest to us. Hope that makes sense.
This is by far the most informative sailing channel I’ve found. I was an oilfield mechanic for 25 years and I’m retired now and about to get my first sailboat. I’ll definitely (eventually) be going electric).
As soon as I saw those batteries I thought... COST! We are looking at an older boat to buy and the issue of battery condition has been raised more than once. A small new diesel engine can be had and fitted for 8k, sail drive optional over and above. The boat has been chosen for sailing performance - the engine is for backup only. What surprises me is the consumption of many of the, no so large, motor boats- 1 gallon a mile is common. Deep pockets or a total aversion to sails and the environment (whoops, another can of worms), Regardless, an absolutely fascinating blog and so well presented, and a terrific response from your audience. What an informed bunch they are! It's taken me ages to read a just a small proportion. Lots to digest for the future, but, regrettably, no panacea it seems. Well done!
That's such a HUGE upgrade! I don't know the details of your work with Just Catamarans, but from these videos it looks like just being able to use their tools and workspace is an amazing gift, even if you're paying them to be able to do so. I'm so excited for you guys, it feels like Uma is getting such an enormous upgrade.
I have done a lot of research on lithium. You are the first person I have seen installing lithium in a sailboat who seems to really understand the product ! I await your testing of your systems and the new lithium install. I think you will be very impressed as to how long the lithium last under load. Now you need to show the viewers your solar charging and explain it’s capacity. Great job !
Dan, I hope that between new batteries, new sink, new toilet, plywood plates everywhere, a lot of fiberglass plates being added, UMA will still be able to keep herself afloat. Please watch your waterline carefully. You don't want her to sit too deep in the water, especially in rough seas. That being said, your skill set is just AMAZING!!!!! Love you both.
I have watched all your videos from step 1! You both do such a great job on your channel. I really enjoy your DIY steps and explanations the most. Keep up the great work Dan and Kika, and Thanks for all the great knowledge and entertainment.
Battle Born Batteries have been great for us. With an inboard, when you're out of fuel, you're out. With solar and regen, the electric motor range becomes unlimited, just not all in one long session.
If your really annoyed about EMC interference on your radio. You can switch your wiring of your solar setup for EMC shielded cable. It has a metal mesh around the the wires that keep emc inside the cable. Like the metal mesh in the window of a microwave.
I feel your pain. I was an electrician on a very old, very small submarine in the Navy. You have a good handle on what's going on with batteries and the video was incredibly informative. Good Luck on sea trials!
At 11:48 RE Interference on your radio: Study how to reduce that via using CHOKEs and winding your wires together (vs running them straight) etc... Google: How to reduce radio interference on a boat. Also, now you have more batteries to charge so they may charge quicker but take a lot longer if they charge fully at all. Even 5 hrs of motoring in a storm or emergency like a dismasting etc is not much so I hope you have a great generator and plenty of fuel for it. I know you must as you two are really doing a bang up job at all of this! Great & informative videos as always!
DAN.... You have an email coming your way showing CHOKES and TOROIDS and links to Sources. This is a common problem with ham radio equipment, but easily solved.
Highly impressed by the precision of the install, from the perfect fit of 4 batteries in 1 box, to all 3 boxes fitting in that space!! Nice clean wiring work too! Looking forward to more.
this was a really informative video. growing up with you two is a real treat an i like treats....i knew when i first started following you way back when that you two were exceptionally talented people...with lotsa love from texas...
Watching your videos has gotten me thinking of sailing and learning everything I can to get to a point to do this in my life. Thank you both for making awesome videos!
A bit late now but I have just found you. You have a hell of a lot of current potential in those batteries . Speaking from experience with telco 48V systems, if you work on the terminals again wrap your spanners in insulation tape. If you short the spanner to the steering cable you will need a new wire and spanner, plus flash burns. - Seen it happen.
I started watching your channel in January 2018 largely because I was intrigued with your electric motor conversion, DIY projects and the fact that two college grads could go sailing with almost nothing in the bank. I think it is very fitting that I caught up to "real time" with this video and the full electric conversion to the Lithium Iron Phosphate battery bank. I'm excited to learn their motoring performance as you cruise over on the other side of the pond. Good job Dan! You have definitely inspired this old guy with your energy, enthusiasm, and environmental thinking. Keep up the great work you two and have fun in the UK!
I love this tech talk. I was supposed to be an aviation electronics technician in the Navy (ended up being an aviation machinist mate), so I was taught how all of this stuff works. It sounds really complicated, but once you understand the terminology it's really not. Bravo Zulu, your doing a great job, and it's fascinating to watch you guys build an old boat into a modern vessel. FAIR WINDS AND FOLLOWING SEAS!
You guys were a huge inspiration for me going electric on my build and I'm happy to see ya get some real range extending lithium. I started with lithium but I wasn't as smart as you and went with used NMC Lithium Ion and it's a freaking handful. 218 batteries and each needs balancing, monitoring and cooling. Lifepo4 is so much simpler. And less explosive.
Love the upgrade to Uma!!! This will help you out in so many ways besides your electric motor. Delos also added Lithium battery banks without people knocking them on the cost. Uma do your thing and enjoy. Again, Just Catamarans are the bomb for their continued support of Uma and crew. ps...you could use heat shrink on that cable above the batteries to eliminate grounding out if applicable.
Absolutely love the tech chat!!! And the things you guys create... Dan, you are the man building stuff, very talented and quite inspirational!! Keep up with the good work guys! Heaps of love!
I hate to be one of those guys on the TH-cam but I work with battery strings pretty much every day. Get a torque wrench for all those battery connections. Torque them to spec so you do not get a repeat of what happened the last time a connector came loose. I would suggest taking the jacket off an old wire an putting it over the steering cables and taping it in place. Had a coworker installing a string of batteries with non insulated tools, one light touch of a socket wrench to ground later he had to go to the hospital with 3rd degree burns on 3 fingers. Even a double wrap of vinyl tape is better than no coating on the tools. I would make the trays more of a basket to allow for air circulation and possibly put boots over the exposed posts, hate to see the steering cable part, short two terminals and start a fire. You guys are doing good work, keep it up and stay safe.
Love the neat installation you've done in your wiring the batteries and control units. I know for certain you have already taken the time to document everything! Good job! This comes from a retired broadcast radio & TV engineer.
Next month I start my restoration on a Cabo Rico 38’. I don’t have an electric motor but after watching this I’m considering adding Lithium batteries to my solar installation. Excellent vid. Thank you
Bro, you are a magician. I love DIY modification and considering how well you over engineer everything, the next owner of Uma is going to be incredibly lucky for all your hard work. Well done!
Finally.....this is the step I've been waiting for.....now things can once again get exciting while moving forward! I am especially excited 'cause you are following the same path I have been wanting to go (except for the motor) but I haven't been able to afford to at present....so I'm kind of living thru you for now....thank you both!!
I am in awe about all the things you guys are doing (DIY) and how well you do them. Impeccable planning, perfect execution and simply good ideas and solutions for the problems you encounter. The DIY aspect and your way of documenting it is definitely one of the things that distinguishes your channel from others. Looking forward to many more videos (I am not done with catching up with all of your videos ... ;-)
Congrats Uma! Those new Battleborn batteries look sweet...and did you say you were going from 15 min to 5 hours of motoring time? Wow! Thank you for the details...The DIY is a big part of your shows appeal...Cheers!
You two are incredible. Is there anything you can’t do; don’t answer that and burst my bubble. For those of us, me, I hold you both in the highest esteem. Godspeed...
I can't wait to see how these batteries perform under actual conditions. What an awesome upgrade! Now you can enjoy the peace and quiet, whether your sailing or motoring. Love your channel. Love you guys. Stay safe.
Could've left the stinky part out, but I'm feeling your pain, you're a brave young man. Dan gotta let you know, the work you just did was amazing, I'm going to call you" Aqua Ninja"!!!!!
HEY ! THAT IS MY BATTERY! Awesome! That being said I only have one. That battery bank is worth more than your boat 2x over lol. Im glad someone is going to be testing something close to my theoretical setup for a all electric boat. If this works out for you guys Im dropping my money on this configuration and remove the diesel.
Insulating your spanners here reduces the risk of accidental shorts!! You have no idea how big a spark that would make! Plus Lithium really doesn’t like short circuits.... Great to see you going Li with new shore power charger and inverter too. Going to make such a difference!! How did you retain them all to the hull in the end?
I have a ten gal. tank, at five knots this is over thirty hours of endurance. The amount you spent on batteries alone over the last three years buys a lot of fuel. I do have lithium batteries and an induction stove top but for propulsion I am keeping the engine. Your installation of the batteries and components looks first rate.
Yeah, we always say that if you have a working diesel, keep it. But for us, we got such a good deal on the boat because it didn't have a working motor. Our original set up cost less than $1k including the solar. We spent another $1k on replacing batteries (our mistake). Still less than even a refurbished diesel. If you want top of the line electric with Lithium bank, it cost about as much as a new diesel motor ($10-20k). The only issue is you're stuck with a 30-50nm range per charge. For us, it's not an issue, since we can sail pretty much everywhere anyway.
That is really cool. I want to put lithium batteries on our Southerly boat (4 kilowatt hours) but was told it wasn’t the best option. Not convinced by the knockers so I’m watching closely. I was designing a 39ft Bristol Channel Cutter, but cut the corner and bought a 16 year old boat instead. But in that design I had planned a hybrid drive with a smaller diesel aft under the rear cockpit floor with its output shaft pointing fwd into a v drive box and with a 6 or 8kw motor mounted on the fwd end of the v drive. My expectation was to be able to electric power for half an hour to get out of berths and off anchorages to sail, regeneratively recharge under sail or solar, while saying that any diesel used would be biodiesel as far as possible. Well now I am fully conventional so have to find a way back to the original plan. Great to see your work and I love your interior.
But it was so cute to see the dinghy double as tugboat! Oh well, on to new inventions. Again, mesmerized by your engineering skills. Looking forward to future steps.
Funny, not too long ago you had Captain Brian from Delis sail with you. The batteries and accompanying equipment are all the same make. I get the feeling he played a major influence in what and how. He is BRILLIANT with that stuff. You did REALLY WELL in installation and EXPLANATION. 😉
We actually didn't even know he had similar batteries until after we installed ours. It's funny, when sailors get together, the last thing we talk about is sailing.
I'm sooooo looking forward to the initial test AND 6 months - a year stress testing! I know it's a very expensive conversion but I'm hopeful that prices will drop in the next 5 years when I plan on outfitting for my retirement/escape. In the mean time I'm watching, learning and dreaming. Good luck! 😎
Dan...great stuff as always. As far as the noise interference on your VHF, it may behoove you to put some snap-on Ferrite core RF chokes on those cables. They are fairly reasonable and do wonders in a super quick fashion.Also a wise choice to move your cables to the other side if not to much of an inconvenience. However, I'd try the Ferrites before doing the extra work Other tips and tricks are to keep you cables as separate as possible so they're not bleeding over into each other. I'm sure if you ask our good friend Google about reducing marine electronic noise, he/she will have a lot of suggestions! I'm excited to see if your math works out as I have my own theories about your numbers. PEACE OUT! Ü
water maker for sure if your crossing the pond, also in conjunction with your solar look into the small wind mill generator that mounts on top of the mast.
When you get to making the covers, add some computer fans on the covers to get some forced air cooling for the batteries. Remember its not only the cells but the BMS board components that need to be kept cool for best life and maximum capacity.
Did I miss where y’all won the lotto? $20k in electrical upgrades and all the other stuff you have done. Wow! I am very glad you have been able to do this.
Haha. I WISH we had $20K. All these upgrades have cost a lot less than you may think. We've been working hard to collaborate with some great companies that have helped us out a ton!
Great explanation and very exciting development for you. I have just installed a complete Victron solution in a Sprinter Van I am converting into a small RV. Once I get the hang of managing the Lithium Batts I hope to do the same in my boat. Unfortunately I don't have an electric drive yet but it sure is on my list of wants. Congrats on getting it done and can't wait to hear the results of the testing.
Nice job and very good explanation. You should let some free spece between each battery because they got hot, and you need a good air circulation to prevent overheating. The wood boxes shuld have some holes also.
I am assuming you are building a shield to protect the batteries from an inadvertent grounding in case your steering cables break. I love your work. Thanks Kevin
I am installing an electric drive in my Tartan 34 and am using the LIFEPO4 100 ah prismatics in a 16s configuration . My biggest issue is wiring the BMS, so the choice you made to have the BMS integrated into the battery saved you some headaches. Looking forward to hearing about your experiences with the new system. I have been following you from the start. Great work!
Yes, that's one of the main reasons we went with these over others. The integration of the BMS and electronics makes installing them easier than normal lead acid.
Dan, first of all, thanks for not treating you audience like numpties. Super impressed at what speed & with the fearlesness you tick off these jobs, I've wired up a few boats myselve. Really happy you were able to afford the batteries & hope you'll be able to confirm your estimations . You didn't mention it, but I'm curious about any regen you might be able to get from the motor, scrub off some power when you are at hullspeed. If you could get hold of a used heavy code-1 on a furler you might be able to generate the power more easilty to run a watermaker and induction stove. I doubt the two solar pannels are going to cut it.
interestingly enough you look like the guy in the operation game................ he must have been Canadian eahh! Great video! all of them! hurricane in Haiti vid was awesome!
Reading the Battleborn manual, they advised using a torque wrench on the battery terminals or risk a fire. Also, they say you can discharge 100%, not 30%.
I can't imagine doing the refit without doing new wiring...good decision. Awww, but then you didn't solder the connectors on. I guess the crimper looks pretty good. Showing the discharge curves is how I explain the difference between Li and lead batts. Also shows the advantage pretty clearly. How do you 'throttle' the motor?
On boats it isn't common practice to solder anything. In fact I don't think I've ever seen it or heard of it being done. Not sure why, but crimping seems to be the standard.
Even just the benefit of not allowing moisture into the connection between the lug and wire would seem worth it to me. The worst corrosion is the corrosion you can't see. I also don't see a lot of dielectric grease used on terminal connections, which I would also think would help. Even just 'tinning' the bare ends of wires before using mechanical connectors like crimps or wire nuts will greatly reduce the rate of corrosion.
I'll sum up the crimp vs solder argument, for whose who want to go down that particular rathole: In my experience (about 45 years of it) soldered connections exposed to salt-air/salt-water conditions corrode. Always. It may take a few years, depending on exposure. They may go intermittent (which is often worse than complete failure). Consider carefully where you wan to use soldered connections. If it's super-important or hard to get to/had to inspect, you may want to apply more initial effort. Yes, a PROPER, well done crimp will be gas-tight and last much longer -- but takes the right tools and practice. Common heatshrink on a soldered connection has it's pluses and minuses and is, at best, only a minor improvement. Tight-fitting, adhesive-filled heatshrink is much better -- best if the heatshrink is clear, so you can inspect for corrosion later.
Running large copper wire 4/0 usually for 15kw+ car audio systems we solder, crimp, then tape off the contact point... Dip in liquid electrical tape, and once that is cured... Heat shrink.
@@melee401 agreed. However in our applications we try to keep Heat at a minimum by overcompensating everything as far as wiring. With some amplifiers that draw a thousand to 7000 amps of current at only 15 volts... We need multiple runs of 4/0 cable to each amplifier...6000strand.... For example my last large build that went into a car show had a CT sounds 7K, the amplifier produces 8300 Watts RMS, Dynamic burst power somewhere around 15kW RMS. ( at .33 ohms with 15. 1 volts...) It had six runs to it.... Multiple batteries and a 320 amp, 20 volt capable alternator, it would play for several minutes before this charging the batteries far enough to need to run for about a half an hour LOL
Hooray! Battle Born Batteries made in the State of Nevada. Being originally from Nevada that makes me happy. You can take the kid out of Nevada but you can't take Nevada out of the kid.
Hello, great videos. I may be stating the obvious but...I noticed when you were tightening that last positive lead (and you were wearing gloves because of a slight short between your cable and hand) you came close to touching the cable with the wrench. Whenever I have had to put the positive lead on last (usually it's best to follow the old rule "negative off first and on last") I wrapped my wrench or any metal tool with electrical tape. Any slip without it and the results are like a Canada Day evening celebration! I speak from experience :( Your attention to detail and overall skills are a real pleasure to watch. Thanks
Consider this. You have a joint, eg a wire to a battery terminal, with 0.1 ohms of contact resistance. If you draw 50 Amps through it, it produces P= I^2.R of heat: 50x50x0.1 = 250 W Toasty-warm.
We just installed 2 lithium batteries (battle born) on our Beneteau 36 and they are such a huge upgrade! We have no solar or wind power and a pretty power thirsty boat, and they last way longer then our 3 lead acid batteries before. The only thing is we had to install a very small non lithium starting battery because the battery management system on the battle borns didn’t like the surge that the engine starter motor sent out. Cheers guys!
I used to be I to cb radio when I was younger, we used something called an isolation transformer to eliminate any electrical interference. Small thing, big difference. I'd also tune my antennae to my set using an SWR meter. It was incredible the difference this made, my cheap setup way outperformed everything else around. This a long time ago but I'd think the principles are still the same and if was in a small boat in a big ocean all the time it'd be something I'd look into! Find an old Ham Radio enthusiast in the area, those guys used to be able to build a radio set with a cereal box and set of guitar strings and some chewing gum.
Thanks for the details on your batt bank - I kept trying to pause the video and deduce what you ended up saying! Can you also sometime go into a wiring diagram? I'm trying to learn as much as I can and am wondering about your terminal blocks and other wiring choices. Thanks for what you do!
Hey guys, This video is excellent, informative, entertaining and rather inspirational for all of us sailboat owners. I was wondering why you didn't put some insulation around the grounded cables during "surgery" as well as your gloves, (as a preventative measure). But definitely, you guys rock. Thank you for sharing your thoughts and technical information. The education is priceless.
9:27 ahahaha that was hilarious! 11:51 im no pro at RF, but my understanding is such devices are supposed to be shielded enough on their own. If the proximity changed doesn't work, look into possible issues with the reception set-up. Also things like changing the orientation of the charger may work, as well as placing an RF shield between the devices.
![Sailboat Galley Renovation (DIY Corian Countertop) - Sailing Uma [Step 136]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/az1P4fXE90E/mqdefault.jpg)
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![Electric Motor and Copper Bottom UPDATE - Sailing Uma [Step 137]](/img/n.gif)
Really interested in this, I'm considering doing the same but there is so much conflicting information. Can you give us full disclosure, are you being sponsored. I have full confidence that you will be truthful, I just know how hard it is to mention the negatives in that situation.
It is a sponsorship... We dont consider that to be a negative! They are a great company, and we only try to work with the trust worthy ones out there. But going lithium was in our plan since day 1, so if its wasnt with a collaboration, we would have found another way to get there.
@@SailingUma No problem, you'd be mad not to, didn't mean any offence, I've heard so many positive and negative comments about lithium that I have no idea what's what and it will be good to watch some real world results rather than listen to armchair computer warriors in there mums basement. I just wanted to understand where you were coming from.
Glad to hear it. We're excited to get out and test them too. Full disclosure, we never collaborate with companies that come with stipulation. It's one of the reasons it takes us so long to upgrade things sometimes. But many companies want you to say certain things, or title your video certain ways. But we always turn them down. We always choose companies that let us go our own way. It's a good way to weed out cheap from quality. If a product is good, and the company trusts it's own stuff, than they know it and we know it and then you know it. We turn down SOOoO many offers that come with scripts or talking points or other stipulations, but those just feel dishonest to us. Hope that makes sense.
@@SailingUma perfect sense, must be hard sometimes, good luck with it all.
relions are better. ive got em in mine
Nerding out on this electrical upgrade. Panduit raceways...yes, yes, yes! R.E.S.P.E.C.T. for your skills, knowledge and execution.👍
Couldn't have said it better myself. So impressed with these guys!
This is by far the most informative sailing channel I’ve found. I was an oilfield mechanic for 25 years and I’m retired now and about to get my first sailboat. I’ll definitely (eventually) be going electric).
As soon as I saw those batteries I thought... COST! We are looking at an older boat to buy and the issue of battery condition has been raised more than once. A small new diesel engine can be had and fitted for 8k, sail drive optional over and above. The boat has been chosen for sailing performance - the engine is for backup only. What surprises me is the consumption of many of the, no so large, motor boats- 1 gallon a mile is common. Deep pockets or a total aversion to sails and the environment (whoops, another can of worms),
Regardless, an absolutely fascinating blog and so well presented, and a terrific response from your audience. What an informed bunch they are! It's taken me ages to read a just a small proportion. Lots to digest for the future, but, regrettably, no panacea it seems.
Well done!
That's such a HUGE upgrade! I don't know the details of your work with Just Catamarans, but from these videos it looks like just being able to use their tools and workspace is an amazing gift, even if you're paying them to be able to do so. I'm so excited for you guys, it feels like Uma is getting such an enormous upgrade.
We enjoyed your discussion about Lithium batteries,...very informative, and thank you for sharing. Safe travels.
So glad you guys got the batteries. Excited to see your tests!
I have done a lot of research on lithium. You are the first person I have seen installing lithium in a sailboat who seems to really understand the product ! I await your testing of your systems and the new lithium install. I think you will be very impressed as to how long the lithium last under load. Now you need to show the viewers your solar charging and explain it’s capacity. Great job !
Dan, I hope that between new batteries, new sink, new toilet, plywood plates everywhere, a lot of fiberglass plates being added, UMA will still be able to keep herself afloat.
Please watch your waterline carefully. You don't want her to sit too deep in the water, especially in rough seas.
That being said, your skill set is just AMAZING!!!!!
Love you both.
Not much changed in the weight. She's actually sitting higher on the water than before and she's better balanced.
OK. Glad to hear that :)
I have watched all your videos from step 1! You both do such a great job on your channel. I really enjoy your DIY steps and explanations the most. Keep up the great work Dan and Kika, and Thanks for all the great knowledge and entertainment.
Battle Born Batteries have been great for us. With an inboard, when you're out of fuel, you're out. With solar and regen, the electric motor range becomes unlimited, just not all in one long session.
Electric motor has to be the future of all vessels. Nice, that you are one of the first.
I could watch these renovation videos all day, love the build projects more than the sailing sometimes!
If your really annoyed about EMC interference on your radio. You can switch your wiring of your solar setup for EMC shielded cable. It has a metal mesh around the the wires that keep emc inside the cable. Like the metal mesh in the window of a microwave.
If you do this don't forget to ground the mesh.
I feel your pain. I was an electrician on a very old, very small submarine in the Navy. You have a good handle on what's going on with batteries and the video was incredibly informative. Good Luck on sea trials!
At 11:48 RE Interference on your radio: Study how to reduce that via using CHOKEs and winding your wires together (vs running them straight) etc... Google: How to reduce radio interference on a boat. Also, now you have more batteries to charge so they may charge quicker but take a lot longer if they charge fully at all. Even 5 hrs of motoring in a storm or emergency like a dismasting etc is not much so I hope you have a great generator and plenty of fuel for it. I know you must as you two are really doing a bang up job at all of this! Great & informative videos as always!
DAN.... You have an email coming your way showing CHOKES and TOROIDS and links to Sources. This is a common problem with ham radio equipment, but easily solved.
Highly impressed by the precision of the install, from the perfect fit of 4 batteries in 1 box, to all 3 boxes fitting in that space!! Nice clean wiring work too! Looking forward to more.
this was a really informative video. growing up with you two is a real treat an i like treats....i knew when i first started following you way back when that you two were exceptionally talented people...with lotsa love from texas...
Watching your videos has gotten me thinking of sailing and learning everything I can to get to a point to do this in my life. Thank you both for making awesome videos!
You’re an artist with boat works.
This episode is why you guys are my favorite youtube channel. I don’t just want a travelog. Dan is great at explaining the why of your decisions.
A bit late now but I have just found you.
You have a hell of a lot of current potential in those batteries . Speaking from experience with telco 48V systems, if you work on the terminals again wrap your spanners in insulation tape. If you short the spanner to the steering cable you will need a new wire and spanner, plus flash burns. - Seen it happen.
I started watching your channel in January 2018 largely because I was intrigued with your electric motor conversion, DIY projects and the fact that two college grads could go sailing with almost nothing in the bank. I think it is very fitting that I caught up to "real time" with this video and the full electric conversion to the Lithium Iron Phosphate battery bank. I'm excited to learn their motoring performance as you cruise over on the other side of the pond. Good job Dan! You have definitely inspired this old guy with your energy, enthusiasm, and environmental thinking. Keep up the great work you two and have fun in the UK!
I love this tech talk. I was supposed to be an aviation electronics technician in the Navy (ended up being an aviation machinist mate), so I was taught how all of this stuff works. It sounds really complicated, but once you understand the terminology it's really not. Bravo Zulu, your doing a great job, and it's fascinating to watch you guys build an old boat into a modern vessel. FAIR WINDS AND FOLLOWING SEAS!
You guys were a huge inspiration for me going electric on my build and I'm happy to see ya get some real range extending lithium. I started with lithium but I wasn't as smart as you and went with used NMC Lithium Ion and it's a freaking handful. 218 batteries and each needs balancing, monitoring and cooling. Lifepo4 is so much simpler. And less explosive.
Just as complicated, but out of sight. Each of those batteries has a balancing and monitoring system inside!
Love the upgrade to Uma!!! This will help you out in so many ways besides your electric motor. Delos also added Lithium battery banks without people knocking them on the cost. Uma do your thing and enjoy. Again, Just Catamarans are the bomb for their continued support of Uma and crew. ps...you could use heat shrink on that cable above the batteries to eliminate grounding out if applicable.
Absolutely love the tech chat!!! And the things you guys create... Dan, you are the man building stuff, very talented and quite inspirational!! Keep up with the good work guys! Heaps of love!
I hate to be one of those guys on the TH-cam but I work with battery strings pretty much every day.
Get a torque wrench for all those battery connections. Torque them to spec so you do not get a repeat of what happened the last time a connector came loose.
I would suggest taking the jacket off an old wire an putting it over the steering cables and taping it in place. Had a coworker installing a string of batteries with non insulated tools, one light touch of a socket wrench to ground later he had to go to the hospital with 3rd degree burns on 3 fingers. Even a double wrap of vinyl tape is better than no coating on the tools.
I would make the trays more of a basket to allow for air circulation and possibly put boots over the exposed posts, hate to see the steering cable part, short two terminals and start a fire.
You guys are doing good work, keep it up and stay safe.
Love the neat installation you've done in your wiring the batteries and control units. I know for certain you have already taken the time to document everything! Good job! This comes from a retired broadcast radio & TV engineer.
Next month I start my restoration on a Cabo Rico 38’. I don’t have an electric motor but after watching this I’m considering adding Lithium batteries to my solar installation. Excellent vid. Thank you
Reno woo hoo!!!
Bro, you are a magician. I love DIY modification and considering how well you over engineer everything, the next owner of Uma is going to be incredibly lucky for all your hard work. Well done!
Dan..
That was The Best description I have Ever heard or seen on batteries.
Thanks
Finally.....this is the step I've been waiting for.....now things can once again get exciting while moving forward! I am especially excited 'cause you are following the same path I have been wanting to go (except for the motor) but I haven't been able to afford to at present....so I'm kind of living thru you for now....thank you both!!
I am in awe about all the things you guys are doing (DIY) and how well you do them. Impeccable planning, perfect execution and simply good ideas and solutions for the problems you encounter. The DIY aspect and your way of documenting it is definitely one of the things that distinguishes your channel from others.
Looking forward to many more videos (I am not done with catching up with all of your videos ... ;-)
Congrats Uma! Those new Battleborn batteries look sweet...and did you say you were going from 15 min to 5 hours of motoring time? Wow! Thank you for the details...The DIY is a big part of your shows appeal...Cheers!
You two are incredible. Is there anything you can’t do; don’t answer that and burst my bubble. For those of us, me, I hold you both in the highest esteem. Godspeed...
I can't wait to see how these batteries perform under actual conditions. What an awesome upgrade! Now you can enjoy the peace and quiet, whether your sailing or motoring.
Love your channel. Love you guys. Stay safe.
Your video proves: Get informed before changing, then execute! Great post! Thanks, and good luck!
That upgrade costs almost more than your boat is worth. Nice to have the money to do it. Hope you do your usual cost revealing. Love you guys.
$12,000! Ouch
Could've left the stinky part out, but I'm feeling your pain, you're a brave young man. Dan gotta let you know, the work you just did was amazing, I'm going to call you" Aqua Ninja"!!!!!
HEY ! THAT IS MY BATTERY! Awesome! That being said I only have one. That battery bank is worth more than your boat 2x over lol. Im glad someone is going to be testing something close to my theoretical setup for a all electric boat. If this works out for you guys Im dropping my money on this configuration and remove the diesel.
Okay I think I got all that thank you for your service!
Insulating your spanners here reduces the risk of accidental shorts!! You have no idea how big a spark that would make! Plus Lithium really doesn’t like short circuits.... Great to see you going Li with new shore power charger and inverter too. Going to make such a difference!! How did you retain them all to the hull in the end?
I have a ten gal. tank, at five knots this is over thirty hours of endurance. The amount you spent on batteries alone over the last three years buys a lot of fuel. I do have lithium batteries and an induction stove top but for propulsion I am keeping the engine. Your installation of the batteries and components looks first rate.
Yeah, we always say that if you have a working diesel, keep it. But for us, we got such a good deal on the boat because it didn't have a working motor. Our original set up cost less than $1k including the solar. We spent another $1k on replacing batteries (our mistake). Still less than even a refurbished diesel. If you want top of the line electric with Lithium bank, it cost about as much as a new diesel motor ($10-20k). The only issue is you're stuck with a 30-50nm range per charge. For us, it's not an issue, since we can sail pretty much everywhere anyway.
That is really cool. I want to put lithium batteries on our Southerly boat (4 kilowatt hours) but was told it wasn’t the best option. Not convinced by the knockers so I’m watching closely. I was designing a 39ft Bristol Channel Cutter, but cut the corner and bought a 16 year old boat instead. But in that design I had planned a hybrid drive with a smaller diesel aft under the rear cockpit floor with its output shaft pointing fwd into a v drive box and with a 6 or 8kw motor mounted on the fwd end of the v drive. My expectation was to be able to electric power for half an hour to get out of berths and off anchorages to sail, regeneratively recharge under sail or solar, while saying that any diesel used would be biodiesel as far as possible. Well now I am fully conventional so have to find a way back to the original plan. Great to see your work and I love your interior.
But it was so cute to see the dinghy double as tugboat! Oh well, on to new inventions. Again, mesmerized by your engineering skills. Looking forward to future steps.
Funny, not too long ago you had Captain Brian from Delis sail with you. The batteries and accompanying equipment are all the same make. I get the feeling he played a major influence in what and how. He is BRILLIANT with that stuff. You did REALLY WELL in installation and EXPLANATION. 😉
We actually didn't even know he had similar batteries until after we installed ours. It's funny, when sailors get together, the last thing we talk about is sailing.
I'm sooooo looking forward to the initial test AND 6 months - a year stress testing! I know it's a very expensive conversion but I'm hopeful that prices will drop in the next 5 years when I plan on outfitting for my retirement/escape. In the mean time I'm watching, learning and dreaming. Good luck! 😎
I love all of this lithium and solar stuff, thanks for sharing!
Great video. I appreciate your attention to detail and the thoughtful, deliberate moves you make to have your boat anti-fragile.
Dan.. I have so much respect for you.
That’s an amazing difference in batteries! Thanks for sharing the specs!
Dan...great stuff as always. As far as the noise interference on your VHF, it may behoove you to put some snap-on Ferrite core RF chokes on those cables. They are fairly reasonable and do wonders in a super quick fashion.Also a wise choice to move your cables to the other side if not to much of an inconvenience. However, I'd try the Ferrites before doing the extra work Other tips and tricks are to keep you cables as separate as possible so they're not bleeding over into each other. I'm sure if you ask our good friend Google about reducing marine electronic noise, he/she will have a lot of suggestions! I'm excited to see if your math works out as I have my own theories about your numbers. PEACE OUT! Ü
Nice work Dan.
I love hard working, intelligent young men with a mission.
Thank you for the explanation on the batteries! There are some battle born lithium batteries in my near future, this is helpful.
Thanks for taking the time to explain the details of your lithium battery conversion. It is so helpful for any of us looking to upgrade.
Well, one thing to say...if you ever, or whenever you sell Uma, I’m in 👍
water maker for sure if your crossing the pond, also in conjunction with your solar look into the small wind mill generator that mounts on top of the mast.
When you get to making the covers, add some computer fans on the covers to get some forced air cooling for the batteries. Remember its not only the cells but the BMS board components that need to be kept cool for best life and maximum capacity.
I was about to comment that this box restricts cooling.
i love this channel is seriously inspiring me and my girl to just take the plunge and buy a boat
great news wishing the best
Thanks for sharing the great project!! You channel is the most informative sailing channel!!
For the future, negative cable to the battery is first off and last on to prevent the shorting issue you described. Cheers!
Did I miss where y’all won the lotto? $20k in electrical upgrades and all the other stuff you have done. Wow! I am very glad you have been able to do this.
Haha. I WISH we had $20K. All these upgrades have cost a lot less than you may think. We've been working hard to collaborate with some great companies that have helped us out a ton!
Welcome to uk guys.... shame the weather didn't hold out for you. But at least you don't mind getting wet , feel free to go wild
Great explanation and very exciting development for you. I have just installed a complete Victron solution in a Sprinter Van I am converting into a small RV. Once I get the hang of managing the Lithium Batts I hope to do the same in my boat. Unfortunately I don't have an electric drive yet but it sure is on my list of wants. Congrats on getting it done and can't wait to hear the results of the testing.
Nice job and very good explanation. You should let some free spece between each battery because they got hot, and you need a good air circulation to prevent overheating. The wood boxes shuld have some holes also.
I am assuming you are building a shield to protect the batteries from an inadvertent grounding in case your steering cables break. I love your work. Thanks Kevin
Nice clean work, clear explanations, and a lovely new setup! Can’t wait to see how it works in the real world!
I am installing an electric drive in my Tartan 34 and am using the LIFEPO4 100 ah prismatics in a 16s configuration . My biggest issue is wiring the BMS, so the choice you made to have the BMS integrated into the battery saved you some headaches.
Looking forward to hearing about your experiences with the new system.
I have been following you from the start. Great work!
Yes, that's one of the main reasons we went with these over others. The integration of the BMS and electronics makes installing them easier than normal lead acid.
Dan, first of all, thanks for not treating you audience like numpties. Super impressed at what speed & with the fearlesness you tick off these jobs, I've wired up a few boats myselve. Really happy you were able to afford the batteries & hope you'll be able to confirm your estimations . You didn't mention it, but I'm curious about any regen you might be able to get from the motor, scrub off some power when you are at hullspeed. If you could get hold of a used heavy code-1 on a furler you might be able to generate the power more easilty to run a watermaker and induction stove. I doubt the two solar pannels are going to cut it.
We'll be doing a whole video on that soon enough. Stay tuned.
Thanks for tech details about Lithium bats
Hard work pays off!
you have no idea the smile that crept across my face when you said " we can motor 5 hours now instead of 15 minutes "
That is totally amazing. The improvement is spectacular.
about five times more
I love the techie parts so don't skimp on them ;-) Good to see you got LifePO great batteries for this application!
Beautiful work
Excellent explanation!
Very Good Tech Info ! Awesome As Always For Those Who Need To Upgrade Watch Again Till You Got It !
interestingly enough you look like the guy in the operation game................ he must have been Canadian eahh! Great video! all of them! hurricane in Haiti vid was awesome!
This was fabulous !! Can’t wait to see some of the test results. I would have no clue on how to set this up. B.R.A.V.O. !!!!
Super excited about this upgrade! Can’t wait to see the results of your tests.
Good stuff!
That's one battery slinging Barbie you got there😎
It is great you replaced the wiring, that will be a life saving task.
Reading the Battleborn manual, they advised using a torque wrench on the battery terminals or risk a fire. Also, they say you can discharge 100%, not 30%.
I can't imagine doing the refit without doing new wiring...good decision. Awww, but then you didn't solder the connectors on. I guess the crimper looks pretty good. Showing the discharge curves is how I explain the difference between Li and lead batts. Also shows the advantage pretty clearly. How do you 'throttle' the motor?
On boats it isn't common practice to solder anything. In fact I don't think I've ever seen it or heard of it being done. Not sure why, but crimping seems to be the standard.
Even just the benefit of not allowing moisture into the connection between the lug and wire would seem worth it to me. The worst corrosion is the corrosion you can't see. I also don't see a lot of dielectric grease used on terminal connections, which I would also think would help. Even just 'tinning' the bare ends of wires before using mechanical connectors like crimps or wire nuts will greatly reduce the rate of corrosion.
I'll sum up the crimp vs solder argument, for whose who want to go down that particular rathole:
In my experience (about 45 years of it) soldered connections exposed to salt-air/salt-water conditions corrode. Always. It may take a few years, depending on exposure. They may go intermittent (which is often worse than complete failure). Consider carefully where you wan to use soldered connections. If it's super-important or hard to get to/had to inspect, you may want to apply more initial effort.
Yes, a PROPER, well done crimp will be gas-tight and last much longer -- but takes the right tools and practice.
Common heatshrink on a soldered connection has it's pluses and minuses and is, at best, only a minor improvement. Tight-fitting, adhesive-filled heatshrink is much better -- best if the heatshrink is clear, so you can inspect for corrosion later.
Running large copper wire 4/0 usually for 15kw+ car audio systems we solder, crimp, then tape off the contact point... Dip in liquid electrical tape, and once that is cured... Heat shrink.
@@melee401 agreed. However in our applications we try to keep Heat at a minimum by overcompensating everything as far as wiring. With some amplifiers that draw a thousand to 7000 amps of current at only 15 volts... We need multiple runs of 4/0 cable to each amplifier...6000strand.... For example my last large build that went into a car show had a CT sounds 7K, the amplifier produces 8300 Watts RMS, Dynamic burst power somewhere around 15kW RMS. ( at .33 ohms with 15. 1 volts...) It had six runs to it.... Multiple batteries and a 320 amp, 20 volt capable alternator, it would play for several minutes before this charging the batteries far enough to need to run for about a half an hour LOL
Hooray! Battle Born Batteries made in the State of Nevada. Being originally from Nevada that makes me happy. You can take the kid out of Nevada but you can't take Nevada out of the kid.
Such great equipment your installing! Enjoy
Hello, great videos. I may be stating the obvious but...I noticed when you were tightening that last positive lead (and you were wearing gloves because of a slight short between your cable and hand) you came close to touching the cable with the wrench. Whenever I have had to put the positive lead on last (usually it's best to follow the old rule "negative off first and on last") I wrapped my wrench or any metal tool with electrical tape. Any slip without it and the results are like a Canada Day evening celebration! I speak from experience :( Your attention to detail and overall skills are a real pleasure to watch. Thanks
With solar its the opposite when connecting to the inverter. Always positive on last and off first.
Interesting battery choice.
Consider this. You have a joint, eg a wire to a battery terminal, with 0.1 ohms of contact resistance. If you draw 50 Amps through it, it produces P= I^2.R of heat: 50x50x0.1 = 250 W
Toasty-warm.
Also, 50 Amps is what a little arc-welder produces.
We just installed 2 lithium batteries (battle born) on our Beneteau 36 and they are such a huge upgrade! We have no solar or wind power and a pretty power thirsty boat, and they last way longer then our 3 lead acid batteries before. The only thing is we had to install a very small non lithium starting battery because the battery management system on the battle borns didn’t like the surge that the engine starter motor sent out. Cheers guys!
The HVAC Kid did you have to change any wiring with your new batteries?
Cindy Mobley Nope, we were able to keep all of the wiring and the battery charger from the old batteries
Yes, I was wondering why they didn't get a BMS and small 12v battery for it, that seems to be a standard setup these days.
really love your creative editing and camera positioning. Not just this video but others too!!
I used to be I to cb radio when I was younger, we used something called an isolation transformer to eliminate any electrical interference. Small thing, big difference. I'd also tune my antennae to my set using an SWR meter. It was incredible the difference this made, my cheap setup way outperformed everything else around. This a long time ago but I'd think the principles are still the same and if was in a small boat in a big ocean all the time it'd be something I'd look into! Find an old Ham Radio enthusiast in the area, those guys used to be able to build a radio set with a cereal box and set of guitar strings and some chewing gum.
Thanks for the details on your batt bank - I kept trying to pause the video and deduce what you ended up saying! Can you also sometime go into a wiring diagram? I'm trying to learn as much as I can and am wondering about your terminal blocks and other wiring choices. Thanks for what you do!
Hey guys,
This video is excellent, informative, entertaining and rather inspirational for all of us sailboat owners.
I was wondering why you didn't put some insulation around the grounded cables during "surgery" as well as your gloves, (as a preventative measure).
But definitely, you guys rock. Thank you for sharing your thoughts and technical information. The education is priceless.
9:27 ahahaha that was hilarious!
11:51 im no pro at RF, but my understanding is such devices are supposed to be shielded enough on their own. If the proximity changed doesn't work, look into possible issues with the reception set-up. Also things like changing the orientation of the charger may work, as well as placing an RF shield between the devices.
We also got. New bud. Ours was from the stone age. I'm sure the new icom will perform much better.
I'm sure it will, you guys do very well at things you try! Its just fun to pretend like I'm helping :D
For all I know you did this weeks ago lol
Love following you. FYI You may have been told already that you should connect the POS First and then NEG.
Definitely one of the reasons i folo Uma. The tech details are appreciated. Fair winds :)