I wish there was a name for books about relationships where the couple isn't going to stay together. I have a fascination for reading about terrible romances, but 9 times out of 10 the couple ends up in a happily ever after that feels horrifying after reading how awful one usually was to the other. I want a toxic romance where someone gets fed up and then punches the other in the face before going on to their own happily ever after, dammit.
While it’s not exactly what you’re describing, you might appreciate Lidiya’s YA Dark Metropolis duology (as Jaclyn Dolamore). The lead couple who were thrown together by chance and terrible circumstances in Book One come to realize in Book Two that their shared trauma isn’t the best foundation for love, and amicably part ways to be with their true loves. Definitely not the usual turn of events. lol
In order to classify as a “romance” book, the couple has to have a happily for now ending. If you want that sort of story, they do exist, but they won’t be marketed as a romance.
For a long time I wanted to try to find fantasy books that focused on aviation. As I read the recommended books, I learned that there is a difference between "contains" and "is about." The book Windhaven by GRRM and Lisa Tuttle comes to mind. It contains flying machines, but only a tiny fraction of the book describes the characters flying, instead if spends almost the entire text talking about the problems of inheriting the flying machines. It contains flying, but really, it could have been a book about any object that can be inherited. As another example, consider The Wind Rises by Studio Ghibli. It is not a fantasy story, but every frame, every scene is about either flying, the love of flying, the dream of flying, engineering flying machines, traveling far away to get ideas, etc. This film is about flying. So after a long time, I finally gave up and decided to write a book myself. I wrote a free web novel, Fire Elementals and Fighter Jets. I expected like six people on planet earth to read it, but now it has 20k views. Maybe at some point in the future I will do revisions and have it professionally edited, or maybe a better writer will make something in this micro-genre that I enjoy reading. Either way, it was never about the money for me.
That's cool! I like that you wrote what you wanted to read. That's probably my main motivation too. My work probably isn't going to take off like yours (20k--wow!), but I think it not being about the money is really important for me as well.
This is the correct attitude to have. I just finished reading someone else's long winded comments in this thread about trying to build a "fan base" to increase profits. Any potential fan base can sense when they've become little more than financial prey and will run away. The people who become successful are those who, like you, do it for love rather than money. Best of luck... Although I suspect you won't need it! ❤
I wish I could write properly jn English. I'd write it. I am French and I think the market is different here, people love fantasy but not like Americans
@@emmaphilo4049 you could cowrite it with a fluent english speaker. So you'd both be creating the story together but they'd make sure it made sense along the way.
A great and terrible beauty almost single handedly sunk my teeth into reading permanently. As a young eclectic wiccan, i saw myself in Gemma sooo much. My jaw dropped hearing someone else talk about it, i must live under a rock lolll
I have a cozy spooky project on tap that’s paranormal investigation meets animal crossing. It’s not quite the same but there is a cozy horror market that tends to feature haunted houses. So, instead of a crime based mystery, the character solves a paranormal one in a cozy setting. I’m working on dark romantasy right now. All the messed up toxicity of dark romance meets the gritty world building of dark fantasy.
I guess there may be more cozy spooky in mystery. Why does mystery get all the fun subgenres!? 😅 I can't write a mystery to save my life and I don't gravitate toward them as a reader either, but mystery people do incorporate a lot of my favorite elements!
I have watched all your videos except for one - which I'm saving for the wonderful vibes when I need a little good video time. Thank you very much for starting this channel! It's really wonderful and your presentation and personality are lovely. I enjoy "spending time with you" and I wish you the most success xx
I thought it was interesting a few years ago when 'NA' (New Adult - i.e. the protagonist is in their early 20s / university years) became a thing. To this day some agents on QueryTracker still represent it. Other places I've seen agents/publishers state vehemently that "NA is NOT a thing -- you either have YA or adult fiction". Having written a romance myself about a girl in her first year of university and very much still coming-of-age and discovering who she is, it never really felt like it belonged to the 'adult' genre to me.
Ugh same. My character is in her early 20s. She isn't super childish, but is still figuring out life. I plan on self publishing because I don't see anyone publishing what I'm going for.
yeah, im kinda annoyed publishing squashed this emerging category so forcefully. really felt like the only reason it didnt take off was bc industry professionals insisted its lot a thing lol
I agree. In my head, what I'm writing fits NA more so than YA or adult, not just because of the content, but when I think about what age I would want to be to read it, it would be late teens- early twenties.
I don't understand why a cozy, non-R-rated book gets put into YA categories and told that the characters need to be aged down or the subject matter needs to be intensified to an R-rating. As a 36 yo I'm sick of reading about 18-19 yo's, even in my adult books. Can't we have cozy gothic fantasies with characters who are all, like, 300?
T Kingfisher does a nice job of writing characters in their thirties with unconventional quirks as romantic leads, if you're looking for recommendations. She's really gone out of her way to avoid the twenty year old conventionally attractive waif + beefcake tropes.
Another great video! :) My favorite genre is ‘80s-style sword & sorcery adventure… Stuff like Willow, Conan, ElfQuest, the early D&D novels like Dragonlance, etc. I’m not sure what the catchy term would be for that genre now…
I wrote a lovely novel - won an award for it. It is the story of a young girl coming of age in England circa 1812 and 1813. She falls in love with a dashing lieutenant, but is not allowed to marry him. Heartbroken, he immigrates to Australia. She has to pick up her life and find a husband. I thought I wrote a romance in the style of Jane Austen. But, no. I wrote "women's fiction," a category I didn't even know existed. Apparently, having characters who behave like people instead of a fevered middle-school Barbie fantasy, who face real significant life challenges, in historically and geographically accurate settings is - I wish I was kidding about this bit of marketing advice - "too intelligent" to be romance. So, I'm dead broke and have a 3-star rating (readers looking for a superficial Regency romance were furious with me) . Now what?
I feel this too. That sounds like the sort of book that works better in trad pub (at least, I assume you self-published this, but you didn't say one way or another), but that can be...a whole other beast.
@@lidiyafoxgloveauthor I had a gf who published trad. It was...not a good experience. Carla did 80% of the work (include arranging all of her own publicity and book tour) and yet only got 20% of the royalty. So now the question is: do I retitle the book, ditch the award and try again? I'm in the editing phase of another book, which I have discovered is not a sci-fi romance, it's "intellectual romance." {sigh} I seem to be incapable of thinking up a good story in any reasonably popular category!
This is coming from a place of care, so please interpret it that way. I am concerned for your seeming lack of respect for romance readers. You marketed your book wrong, and you are mad that the readers who you marketed it to did not like it. Many romance readers do read different genres and may have been open to your book had it been presented correctly. Romance has one hard rule: happily ever after/for now. Readers want the angst but require the happy ending. That's not their fault that your book didn't have that. The type of books someone reads in no way reflects their level of intelligence. Please reconsider how you think about the way your book was received by an audience that was not looking for that book. I think that you absolutely could rebrand and rerelease this book to the appropriate market and have new success with it. Best of luck to you!
@@heymer4274 Gosh - considering the viciousness of the reviews, I thought I was being moderate. BTW, my best GF, whom I adore, is a big romance buff who also reads other genres. My heroine does get her happy ending, just not the one she was expecting (rather like Elizabeth loses Wickham but gains Darcy). Nope. I do NOT think romance readers are dumb, or even emotionally immature. I am quoting directly from an experienced and highly recommended romance publicist (the Barbie fever fantasy is a paraphrase of his advice) but the "too intelligent" is a direct quote. 😯That's why I said, "wish I was kidding." I was shocked by his attitude, TBH. Until getting chewed up by self-publishing, I naively assumed that the vast majority of readers are pretty sharp and wrote accordingly. Thanks for the good wishes and encouragement!🙂
I have always struggled with genre because I am a fantasy writer, but I love exploring relationships, and I love a quiet story where two people explore a complicated situation. I'm in the habit of changing whatever the stories of my heart are to fit the market, but with my current WIP, I've realized that I DON'T HAVE TO. Thank you, Travis Baldree and TJ Klune and others. But it's rough out there, especially if you want to do the traditional path.
I'm so happy to have seen your videos appear on my home page today! I really like your approach to describing the publishing field and writing itself, it makes it all seems so approachable. I've binged a couple of your videos today and ended with this one and I subscribed for more! Can't wait to see what you'll come up with next!
I love your video topics. I love it when a new genre pops up or when something gets a more accurate description. I write neo-surrealism, which is not listed as a book genre yet, but there’s plenty of amazing art.
Thanks for continuing to share your wealth of knowledge. I definitely have a series that will be hard to market because it's not quite either of the genre it's in.
@@miguelthedrawtist Not really. More like "The Mask of Zorro vibes but fantasy". Or "Star Wars but fantasy and with more romance." Or "The Princess Bride but more serious."
I'm writing a paranormal women's fiction novel (MC over 40, widowed or divorced, moves to a new place, and discovers she has magical abilities). But where a lot of these books are snarky and humorous, and the magic is dark, in mine, the magical beings are good. There is humor, but little snark. I like to read books that impart hope and happiness. Sort of, "It's never too late to live a magical life." I don't know what you would call that--maybe "hopeful paranormal women's fiction"? "Women's paranormal light"? I think you're right--having a specific genre does help with marketing. Any time you change things, you're taking a gamble.
In the case of yours, I would probably refer to it as paranormal women's fiction but have the cover be a little lighter (though not totally off genre). SOMETIMES you can luck out with that sort of thing in that people just pick it up because they like the basic genre tropes but then find your tone refreshing.
I wish there was a name for urban fantasy, but where the fantasy elements are openly known and not hidden. Like that movie "Bright". So instead of vampires and gods secretly running corporations, it's commonly known that an ancient dragon is the CEO of some company and he's been in the Fortune rich's people list since before Forbes was a thing, or where magic is licensed, etc. I'm thinking "Overt Urban Fantasy" and "Covert Urban fantasy." Also, I think we need a division between urban fantasy and fantasy as a whole, especially when it comes to self-published stuff: clean vs spicy. It's getting harder and harder to find actual urban fantasy novels that are about action, adventure and fun and not just "daring police woman meets hot fae guy on the mean streets of New York" stuff. I'm honestly thinking of advertising my stuff as "urban fantasy without romance," because I think it is becoming an underserved niche these days.
Yes, this! I find more good fantasy adventures in the Middle School section than in the adult section, exactly because of this. Maybe now that people are free to market as "romantasy", what's left in fantasy will be enjoyable.
I feel like there is definitely a distinct market, in nearly every genre, for: 1. Capital-R romance 2. There is a relationship but it's realistic, not focused on insta-horniness, no extended sex scenes where everyone is the best lover in the universe, etc 3. No romance I rest in 2, you rest in 3, but I think a lot of the most voracious readers out there are often in 1, so they tend to overwhelm many genres. It would be great if we just had a little letter system for it the way we have "m/f", "m/m", "mmf" etc to describe types of relationships in romance.
Yes, I definitely rest in 2. I actually read a lot of Christian romances for this reason, even though I myself am agnostic, because they focus on the characters vs just the romance. So their romance books tend to be in 2 or 3.
I used to read a lot of urban fantasy and most enjoyed the ones where the romance takes like five books to solidify so you really get to see the development of the relationship and it makes sense.
I'm getting reaaally burnt out by 1 and wish there were a lot more of 2, of all kinds of relationships. I wrote a book riffing off the problematic darksides of the "enemies to lovers" trope (turned it into "enemies to ???! to enemies") but I'm so scared to publish it because it's not a romance, it's a realistic relationship book, and I'm not sure I can withstand creative hatred/scathing reviews right now when I've already had it from friends and family for always doing the unexpected.... As for the urban fantasy genre where magic isn't hidden, try "Shadowrun inspired" in the keywords. I know Rachel Aaron has been publishing those sorts of urban fantasy worldbuilding books and succeeding at it. Might take a look?
My preferred genre is a Fantasy setting, adventure plotline and a slow-burn romantic subplot that's not a primary to the overarching story, but without it, the story wouldn't make sense. Unfortunately, most books I come across are either a good fantasy with a weak or non-existent romance, or skew more towards romance and have a generic fantasy- ish plot/setting. Because there are very few books that satisfy this specific itch, I decided to write them myself. But I already feel like it'll be difficult to market (provided I actually manage to finish at least one of my million WIPs 😂).
Lynn Flewelling's Nightrunner books 1&2 were always my fave for this, the world build and plot was great and the true focus of the story but it was also about 2 characters becoming friends/partners who eve~~~~ntually ended up together (but it's m/m romance from the late 90's so ymmv) ❤️
Saaaame. I get so sick when romance takes priority over the plot even though the book is labeled as fantasy. Just like I hate it when romance is hinted at in the blurb but practically non-existent in the story. Like, I just want both without one overshadowing the other while still giving each its own respective area in the spotlight.
yeah, i prefer this type of handling of romance in fantasy books as well but not many do it like that... only one where the romance was minor but i really enjoyed it along the actual plot was uprooted by naomi novik. and that one is a bit of a hard sell to many ppl bc of the age gap...
Very good video! A lot of great insights. I feel like there's spectrum that goes from "acceptable" to "huh?" when it comes to crossing genres. There is a difference between a novel that straddles the line between romantic-fantasy and fantasy-romance, and a novel that's chick lit crossed with hard sci-fi crossed with inspirational fiction. And between those two ends of the spectrum I feel like there is wiggle-room for what is and isn't marketable. Also, I think a lot of readers are kinda getting sick of sub-sub-sub genres. I think a lot of readers just want general "epic fantasy" or "historic romance," and can will forgive if every trope isn't there as long as it's well-written.
I love psychological romance... And I hate cookie cutter shit. I want fcked up dark romance that's not carried by the FMC being an idiot, but someone with agency, who doesn't take crap from ML just bc he had a traumatic past or Smth. I want complicated intriguing relationships that are not just 'oh they love each other' 'oh they are childhood friends' but have depth to it. I want moral dilemma regarding these complicated relationships. Honestly my favorite example of this would be the phantom of the Opera and Christine's relationship. When Christine's father died he talked of an angel of music he would send to her. And then the phantom appears as a substitute for her dad basically. This obsession from her side, him holding that power over her, is just so intriguing to me. And obviously a relationship like that has no future, and is unhealthy, but I like to explore these nieche relationships.
I don’t know if her writing would be your cup of tea, as it were, but I love Larissa Ione’s characters. I’ve read most of her books and she gets better and better at writing these characters who have incredible depth and very dark means that brings them together (or holds them apart). I’ve found that a lot of paranormal romances allow for more complicated romances though the range of quality is huge.
The genre I wish had a name would be a dark crime thriller with heavy romance plot. Similar to NBC's Hannibal or even Killing Eve. It has too much of a "procedural/crime (serial killer)" element to be called a romance, but at the same time, the major developing arc across the series is a romance, so therefore, it has too much "romance" for the average crime thriller reader. I really wish there was a genre for this! 🥴
Because I like to make life difficult for myself, my books sort of drift in between genres...magical realism, fantasy, cosy fantasy...my current wip is a 'magical women's fiction with a portal fantasy element' -- none of these quite grasp it but come close-ish which is nightmarish for marketing purposes. My ideal label would be 'real-world-where-faeries-exist-alongside-humans-which-isn't-universally-acknowledged-but-also-not-unusual' -- or perhaps something a bit less wordy :) I read a lot of Charles de Lint and Guy Gavriel Kay (The Fionavar Tapestry! *swoon*) in my early twenties and that's been a huge influence. Alas, it makes it really hard to sum things up in a catchy phrase. I often which I wrote in a clearly defined genre. I'm looking forward to the follow-up videos on this! Thanks so much for talking about it -- marketing is that actual bane of my life :)
This topic is so apt as my first ever indie book was "A Dark Victorian Gaslamp Fantasy" which involved mythical monsters, Victorian underworld crime, and an unconventional romance. It's the book of my heart but my agent had the most difficult time pitching it, so I eventually went the indie route with it. I think I filed it under steampunk because gaslamp was but a blip on the radar at the time. Like your book, it has light automatons but no airships. Steampunk is also a very difficult genre to sell as it's so niche. Now, having switched genre to contemporary romantic comedy, I'm still struggling to place my books in terms of heat (I'm smack in the middle of the heat rating. Too steamy to be clean, not steamy enough to be spicy. I write door ajar romances). I'll look forward to your future videos about marketing as I obviously need help 😅& for something to click!
Yeah, steampunk is definitely very niche still and probably not something many authors pay the bills with, but it is at least known enough to sell to those who do enjoy it. That sounds really good though! One of my favorite YA was Dearly Departed which had such a weird mix of steampunk & Victorian with zombies, romance, and humor. I'm also moving toward that weird middle ground with heat. My Hidden Lands books usually have a sex scene or two but when I really care about and develop the characters I'm not going to suddenly have my guys be gods of the bedroom and describing the size of their junk, it's more about the emotional connection. I don't really want to leave it out entirely though, especially with my race of doll people, I spent more time as a teenager than I should wondering if Jack and Sally had a sex life 🤣 ...so I wanted to explain the mechanics there
re: 3:09, the name being important to how the genre is shaped, IS SO ACCURATE. I also write slice of life fantasy; it has violence, and sex, and a few dark elements, but it also has a lot of moments where I'm doing things that would be considered "self-indulgent" in an action fantasy novel. It's *so hard* to tell people about what I'm writing. I had a web serial up and I got incredibly discouraged about trying to market it, so I was just like--why am I doing this to myself, where I post chapters that nobody is going to read? So yeah, I took it down. I'm still working on it, but I'm not sure what to do with it. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ It's frustrating. lol
Get this! Took down my web serial for the same reason, too dark, too off-brand of current genre trends, no one is going to read this but...seem to be compelled to write it anyway...
I want #philosofantasy to be a thing. Think the philosophical depth of Sophie's World but less "im going to literally give you a history of philosophy course," and more using fantasy setting and gods and spirits and magical beings to explore not just societal dynamics, but metaphysical, epistemological, and theological concepts as well.
So relatable, I think we all have at last one of those hard to market passion project books, 1930s retrofuturism adventure story with a heavy dose of romance, anyone?
A sub genre I really wish could get a name are Romances that don't have a happy ending... maybe that just doesn't sound appealing, but I always find myself wanting to write stories where the relationship ends up as more like a learning experience. Maybe even a cautionary tale of what *not* to do. I guess maybe I'm thinking of a tragic romance? But it seems like the word "romance" instantly means that there HAS to be a happily ever after... and while I get the appeal in that, there's GOT to be an audience that is fine with romances that don't end with HEAs...
Usually if you see a book referred to as "a love story", something bad is gonna go down... But you're right that it is not very clear when you're trying to find a book.
I feel ya. The romance genre never really interested me much largely because I’ve always heard that it HAS to be a happy ending. Which sounds so boring to me. I’d rather have the suspense of not always knowing how a story is going to end, not knowing whether or not they’re going to end up together. I wouldn’t consider my WIP to be a romance, but it does have a couple romantic relationships, sort-of love triangles, that lie at the core of the story. But none of these relationships end up working out well for the first-person narrator.
My first book definitely fell into this category. Post-Apocalyptic Action-Adventure with a romance subplot and not a HEA for the main couple, because Trauma lol. I need to get a proper cover for it, but the book itself doesn't fit into all of the best selling in that genre. I'm ok with it. It was a story I wanted to tell. I'm writing a more genre-specific less odd-ball book next.
@@lidiyafoxgloveauthor 😅Ok sorry, I think asking every genre was to much. (I do have a lot to learn :) Let's say that I would like more videos on the genres that you know... if it inspire you. (I am french and my english is limited so it can sound strange sometimes) I really enjoy your videos and your channel. thank you very much. You gave me the spark I needed to have more hope and to hold on to my writing. 💌I will just watch all your videos anyway. And I will read your books.
I'm a horror writer and I'm totally fine that it's not exactly on the market for most folk. I’m writing a novel now that kinda has some romance but it mainly serves as a build up to the plot. It's not unheard of a horror story having a romantic plot either but it starts off very formal, a bad event happens on their date which leads the male character getting wounded. Then he kills the person trying to kidnap my FMC, this will sort of be a dilemma for her as well, they're both very catholic and this sort of makes her question his morality. I have a future idea regarding her own morality as well where she does something similar and she questions herself. Was inspired a lot by Cormac McCarthy’s work, Robert W. Chambers, and Christopher Buehlman who wrote Between Two Fires (which I highly recommend reading to anyone who hasn't). Hopefully I can finish this book soon but I see myself working on this for the next few years. Do I think this will be the next best selling horror novel? Would dare to dream but I'd say hardly. I prob screwed up some talking points when it comes to the FMC questioning the males morality but keep in mind they're both god fearing people. It won't just be her questioning his morality, he does do that I figured I should just mention that at least.
I do love reading Romantasy, but I find the world building so generic with the same old "there are Fae and/or dragons and/or elves" set in mediaval England adjacent settings. What I am writing is basically Epic Romantasy, where there's the romance, but also the world building is completely different to what constitutes a generic fanasty world. The closest comparison I have is I'm trying to write something with a world as bizarre as the Stormlight Archive but with smut. But I hate this comparison as my world is nothing like the Stormlight Archive, but my world, in my opinion, is weird and has a unique magic system which I haven't really based on anything other than what I think is wacky and cool. So yeah, I want to create Epic Romantasy
I've heard this term before!! Elisabeth Wheatley describes her books as epic romantasy and she also has some pretty good recommendations for it too if you were interested She also has a yt channel and talks a lot about how her world building is inspired by different periods of history because she's also a history nerd ☺
Creature fantasy is my favorite genre-that's-not-an-Amazon-listing. Though I've noticed that when listing the equivalent of BISAC codes in other countries, some do have a listing for it, like in France. It also gets called xenofiction, animal fiction, animal fantasy, and a few other names. For a little bit, the Dragons & Mythical Creatures category was useful for finding books like this. Lately, though, Amazon tosses any book that uses the keyword "dragon" into that category automatically, so it's not just creature fantasy anymore. I'd define it as a subgenre that has a non-human protagonist. Usually, they're sapient (The Black Gryphon by Mercedes Lackey), but the fan crossover also includes the kids who love sentient protagonists, too, like Raptor Red by Robert T. Bakker. (These are 100% a group of fans who will skewer a fantasy author in reviews for not knowing the difference between sentient, like a bug flying by your window or a squirrel in your yard, and sapient, like able to speak, plan, and imagine.) I think a lot about how Grimdark became a distinct category because of the hard work done in creating Grimdark Magazine, then pulling in all of the authors writing similar books to write stories for it, until it became a term we all know. Give me a little money and free time, and I suspect I'd get a Creature Fantasy Magazine going to give those fans something to rally around. Examples: Wings of Fire, Gryphon in Light and the other Valdemar gryphon-protagonist novels by Mercedes Lackey, Guardian Herds, Lord of the Changing Wind by Rachel Neumeier, Ursula Vernon and T. Kingfisher's furrier novels, Cradle of Sea & Sky by Bernie Anes Paz, Raptor Red by Robert T. Bakker, Warrior Cats/FoxCraft/Redwall YA books, Song of the Summer King by Jess E. Owen/Jessica Kara, Dire by John Bailey, Tooth & Claw by Jo Walton, and a lot more.
I never realized the Grimdark genre was thanks to a magazine! That is actually a pretty smart way to define and name a category. Makes me wish I had time to run a cozy-goth anthology. And goodness are Amazon categories frustrating...
I wish there was a genre where people deal with facts that are non-fictional and that are officially confirmed in our world, but sound utterly incredible and go against the grain. Example of this is Michael Heiser's The Facade. The name for the genre might be "guerilla geek journey." Another genre I would like to exist is one where the dashing young hero of story one reappears in the sequel as an authority that's utterly out of depth, and possibly corrupt, as a result of all-too human weaknesses like self-complacency and conformism. leading to outdated assumptions and Gell-Mann-amnesia effect. This kind of genre is hinted at in e.g. Isaac Asimov's novels, the Greek mythology, and in the Old Testament. This genre could be described as "revolving doors."
@@hughtrevor-flopper3214 a series that sort of falls into that second category is Legends of the First Empire by Michael J. Sullivan (first book is Age of Myth) - I've only read the first book so far but have heard that the format of the series means that a fair amount of time passes between books. It's about a fantasy society of humans developing after they discover their Gods are in fact not deities, but very long lived beings that have oppressed them for centuries and prevented their society from progressing. They basically go from a more primitive hunter-gatherer type of society to making all kinds of inventions and improvements. I can't say for certain there is specifically a character that goes through that arc but it sounds like its a possibility as the story spans a fair amount of time following some of the same characters through it. There is also something like that character arc happening in Mistborn: The Final Empire by Brandon Sanderson with one of the characters.
There's something in the grey area between magical realism and fantasy that I wish had a name. Like the Raven Cycle books are just categorised as fantasy most of the time but I don't know how to find more fantasy like it because it has way more in common with magical realism in terms of overall vibe
Interesting! I have been wondering what the book I want to write falls into but it might be slice of life fantasy: where it is in a fantasy/science fantasy world but the challenges the characters face are more internal than external.
I wonder if there’s a genre for characters who have to cope with living in a world where the bad guy won? How do they survive? No “let’s try again, a new hero has approached!” Just… “well, fuck. Now what? Well, cope, survive, I guess.” Thoughts?
I like the idea of having a sort of "Vantage Point" genre where you have a story where different characters are experiencing the same event but in their minds, they're interpreting it in a different way. A group of people stuck in a traffic jam would have a bunch of different experiences. One might be on the run from the police. Another might be late for a wedding. Another is about to die in an ambulance. Etc. Each one could be treated like it's own little genre piece, but together, they're a bigger picture. I don't know if that kind of genre or sub-genre exists.
Super relate to what you said about both the good parts and limitations of the names of subgenres, particularly cozy fantasy! My main book series has been labeled "cozy fantasy" by others, so I market it that way now--but they're all about characters healing from trauma, so there's actually a lot of stuff in there that's potentially stressful or upsetting. Sometimes I worry people might get the wrong idea (even with the trigger warning list at the front) and be upset/disappointed. I've been told it still counts as cozy because the hard stuff is handled a certain way (gently, like getting a hug), but still. It's very weird trying to figure out what "counts" or doesn't for the genre. Like you said, different readers have different expectations! 😅 It's tough.
i wish character studies had more sexy label. cause i feel like the books that are just studying human condition are considered boring. maybe that's just me though.
I need bromance as a genre. My first book was about two actors who realize how much they care for each other when they're forced to live out fan fiction tropes. Then I realized I had no language to market it. Not really Fantasy, not a romance, big flop
I do love a good bromance. I suspect this is the sort of thing that works better, saleswise, piggybacking on a more common trope and/or that readers who like bromances just end up reading cute m/m stories instead, but...it's a big plus for me when a book has a bromance.
Is the book that inspired Cozy Fantasy, not even technically Cozy Fantasy? Because T’andri the Tiefling does have a traumatic past that comes up in Legends & Lattes
I think a lot of what is cozy fantasy DOES have some un-cozy moments, truthfully. Because...well, while western storytelling can be a bit over-focused on conflict, it really IS hard to float an entire genre on nothing being stressful to anyone ever.
@@lidiyafoxgloveauthor I think I have read some fantasy novels that were kind of hangout books, like a hangout show or a hangout movie, your enjoyment of the thing depends on whether or not you particularly like the characters you’re getting to know. Tam Lin, by Pamela Dean, or stuff like Howl’s Moving Castle. A lot of stuff happening around a young woman coming of age and then, all of a sudden at the end there’s a crisis
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I wish there was a name for books about relationships where the couple isn't going to stay together. I have a fascination for reading about terrible romances, but 9 times out of 10 the couple ends up in a happily ever after that feels horrifying after reading how awful one usually was to the other. I want a toxic romance where someone gets fed up and then punches the other in the face before going on to their own happily ever after, dammit.
While it’s not exactly what you’re describing, you might appreciate Lidiya’s YA Dark Metropolis duology (as Jaclyn Dolamore). The lead couple who were thrown together by chance and terrible circumstances in Book One come to realize in Book Two that their shared trauma isn’t the best foundation for love, and amicably part ways to be with their true loves. Definitely not the usual turn of events. lol
Those books are called "Nicholas Sparks books" LOL
@@Hetzer You're right, not exactly what I meant, but I gotta admit, that sounds like a good story too, I might check that out.
I’m working on something like this so it’s cool to hear there might be at least some people who get it.
In order to classify as a “romance” book, the couple has to have a happily for now ending. If you want that sort of story, they do exist, but they won’t be marketed as a romance.
For a long time I wanted to try to find fantasy books that focused on aviation. As I read the recommended books, I learned that there is a difference between "contains" and "is about." The book Windhaven by GRRM and Lisa Tuttle comes to mind. It contains flying machines, but only a tiny fraction of the book describes the characters flying, instead if spends almost the entire text talking about the problems of inheriting the flying machines. It contains flying, but really, it could have been a book about any object that can be inherited.
As another example, consider The Wind Rises by Studio Ghibli. It is not a fantasy story, but every frame, every scene is about either flying, the love of flying, the dream of flying, engineering flying machines, traveling far away to get ideas, etc. This film is about flying.
So after a long time, I finally gave up and decided to write a book myself. I wrote a free web novel, Fire Elementals and Fighter Jets. I expected like six people on planet earth to read it, but now it has 20k views. Maybe at some point in the future I will do revisions and have it professionally edited, or maybe a better writer will make something in this micro-genre that I enjoy reading. Either way, it was never about the money for me.
That's cool! I like that you wrote what you wanted to read. That's probably my main motivation too. My work probably isn't going to take off like yours (20k--wow!), but I think it not being about the money is really important for me as well.
This is the correct attitude to have. I just finished reading someone else's long winded comments in this thread about trying to build a "fan base" to increase profits. Any potential fan base can sense when they've become little more than financial prey and will run away. The people who become successful are those who, like you, do it for love rather than money. Best of luck... Although I suspect you won't need it! ❤
Would love a cozy goth genre!
Haha I have a book idea for this, which needs to wait until I'm done with my current WIP.
I wish I could write properly jn English. I'd write it.
I am French and I think the market is different here, people love fantasy but not like Americans
I'm thinking about what genre my life would fall into. IDK, but cozy would definitely be part of it.
@@emmaphilo4049 you could cowrite it with a fluent english speaker. So you'd both be creating the story together but they'd make sure it made sense along the way.
A great and terrible beauty almost single handedly sunk my teeth into reading permanently. As a young eclectic wiccan, i saw myself in Gemma sooo much. My jaw dropped hearing someone else talk about it, i must live under a rock lolll
I have a cozy spooky project on tap that’s paranormal investigation meets animal crossing. It’s not quite the same but there is a cozy horror market that tends to feature haunted houses. So, instead of a crime based mystery, the character solves a paranormal one in a cozy setting.
I’m working on dark romantasy right now. All the messed up toxicity of dark romance meets the gritty world building of dark fantasy.
I guess there may be more cozy spooky in mystery. Why does mystery get all the fun subgenres!? 😅 I can't write a mystery to save my life and I don't gravitate toward them as a reader either, but mystery people do incorporate a lot of my favorite elements!
I have watched all your videos except for one - which I'm saving for the wonderful vibes when I need a little good video time. Thank you very much for starting this channel! It's really wonderful and your presentation and personality are lovely. I enjoy "spending time with you" and I wish you the most success xx
I thought it was interesting a few years ago when 'NA' (New Adult - i.e. the protagonist is in their early 20s / university years) became a thing. To this day some agents on QueryTracker still represent it. Other places I've seen agents/publishers state vehemently that "NA is NOT a thing -- you either have YA or adult fiction". Having written a romance myself about a girl in her first year of university and very much still coming-of-age and discovering who she is, it never really felt like it belonged to the 'adult' genre to me.
Ugh same. My character is in her early 20s. She isn't super childish, but is still figuring out life. I plan on self publishing because I don't see anyone publishing what I'm going for.
yeah, im kinda annoyed publishing squashed this emerging category so forcefully. really felt like the only reason it didnt take off was bc industry professionals insisted its lot a thing lol
I agree. In my head, what I'm writing fits NA more so than YA or adult, not just because of the content, but when I think about what age I would want to be to read it, it would be late teens- early twenties.
I don't understand why a cozy, non-R-rated book gets put into YA categories and told that the characters need to be aged down or the subject matter needs to be intensified to an R-rating. As a 36 yo I'm sick of reading about 18-19 yo's, even in my adult books. Can't we have cozy gothic fantasies with characters who are all, like, 300?
I would be down for this! I basically want someone to write a somewhat (but not entirely) more serious version of What We Do in the Shadows
💯
T Kingfisher does a nice job of writing characters in their thirties with unconventional quirks as romantic leads, if you're looking for recommendations. She's really gone out of her way to avoid the twenty year old conventionally attractive waif + beefcake tropes.
@@BrookhousianNightmare Second this! Highly recommend Paladin's Grace.
Would recommend Paladin of Souls for adult charaters. Also a Civil Campaign. Both by Louis Bojold McMaster.
Another great video! :)
My favorite genre is ‘80s-style sword & sorcery adventure… Stuff like Willow, Conan, ElfQuest, the early D&D novels like Dragonlance, etc. I’m not sure what the catchy term would be for that genre now…
Pretty sure its still called "sword-and-sorcery", though the darker, more mature stories in that vein tend be labeled "Grimdark" nowadays
I write Sword & Sorcery and interact with a community of authors who still write Sword & Sorcery too.
We call it Sword & Sorcery. Simple.
I wrote a lovely novel - won an award for it. It is the story of a young girl coming of age in England circa 1812 and 1813. She falls in love with a dashing lieutenant, but is not allowed to marry him. Heartbroken, he immigrates to Australia. She has to pick up her life and find a husband. I thought I wrote a romance in the style of Jane Austen. But, no. I wrote "women's fiction," a category I didn't even know existed. Apparently, having characters who behave like people instead of a fevered middle-school Barbie fantasy, who face real significant life challenges, in historically and geographically accurate settings is - I wish I was kidding about this bit of marketing advice - "too intelligent" to be romance. So, I'm dead broke and have a 3-star rating (readers looking for a superficial Regency romance were furious with me) . Now what?
I feel this too. That sounds like the sort of book that works better in trad pub (at least, I assume you self-published this, but you didn't say one way or another), but that can be...a whole other beast.
@@lidiyafoxgloveauthor I had a gf who published trad. It was...not a good experience. Carla did 80% of the work (include arranging all of her own publicity and book tour) and yet only got 20% of the royalty. So now the question is: do I retitle the book, ditch the award and try again? I'm in the editing phase of another book, which I have discovered is not a sci-fi romance, it's "intellectual romance." {sigh} I seem to be incapable of thinking up a good story in any reasonably popular category!
This is coming from a place of care, so please interpret it that way. I am concerned for your seeming lack of respect for romance readers. You marketed your book wrong, and you are mad that the readers who you marketed it to did not like it. Many romance readers do read different genres and may have been open to your book had it been presented correctly. Romance has one hard rule: happily ever after/for now. Readers want the angst but require the happy ending. That's not their fault that your book didn't have that. The type of books someone reads in no way reflects their level of intelligence. Please reconsider how you think about the way your book was received by an audience that was not looking for that book. I think that you absolutely could rebrand and rerelease this book to the appropriate market and have new success with it. Best of luck to you!
@@heymer4274 Gosh - considering the viciousness of the reviews, I thought I was being moderate. BTW, my best GF, whom I adore, is a big romance buff who also reads other genres. My heroine does get her happy ending, just not the one she was expecting (rather like Elizabeth loses Wickham but gains Darcy). Nope. I do NOT think romance readers are dumb, or even emotionally immature. I am quoting directly from an experienced and highly recommended romance publicist (the Barbie fever fantasy is a paraphrase of his advice) but the "too intelligent" is a direct quote. 😯That's why I said, "wish I was kidding." I was shocked by his attitude, TBH. Until getting chewed up by self-publishing, I naively assumed that the vast majority of readers are pretty sharp and wrote accordingly. Thanks for the good wishes and encouragement!🙂
😢What’s your book? I’ll read it
I have always struggled with genre because I am a fantasy writer, but I love exploring relationships, and I love a quiet story where two people explore a complicated situation. I'm in the habit of changing whatever the stories of my heart are to fit the market, but with my current WIP, I've realized that I DON'T HAVE TO. Thank you, Travis Baldree and TJ Klune and others. But it's rough out there, especially if you want to do the traditional path.
I'm so happy to have seen your videos appear on my home page today! I really like your approach to describing the publishing field and writing itself, it makes it all seems so approachable. I've binged a couple of your videos today and ended with this one and I subscribed for more! Can't wait to see what you'll come up with next!
I absolutely love that you don’t talk over a repetitive soundtrack. Appreciate your content and straightforward delivery.
I love your video topics. I love it when a new genre pops up or when something gets a more accurate description. I write neo-surrealism, which is not listed as a book genre yet, but there’s plenty of amazing art.
I also really like cozy goofy gothic spooky. totally my genre
I'm writing a book like this now.
Good! Let's make it a thing!!
Now I want to write one....
Thanks for continuing to share your wealth of knowledge. I definitely have a series that will be hard to market because it's not quite either of the genre it's in.
“Action-adventure with a big romance element” is what I want to write and I wish there was a nice one-word term for that.
"Romantic Thriller"??
@@miguelthedrawtist Not really. More like "The Mask of Zorro vibes but fantasy". Or "Star Wars but fantasy and with more romance." Or "The Princess Bride but more serious."
@@Afterflowers-v4k Well there you go. Just say "it's a grown-up version of Princess Bride" and you have your comp.
@@rumrunner8019 Definitely not a bad idea! Though it would sure still be helpful to have nice short hash-taggable term.
@@rumrunner8019Princess Bride isn’t grown-up!?
I'm writing a paranormal women's fiction novel (MC over 40, widowed or divorced, moves to a new place, and discovers she has magical abilities). But where a lot of these books are snarky and humorous, and the magic is dark, in mine, the magical beings are good. There is humor, but little snark. I like to read books that impart hope and happiness. Sort of, "It's never too late to live a magical life." I don't know what you would call that--maybe "hopeful paranormal women's fiction"? "Women's paranormal light"? I think you're right--having a specific genre does help with marketing. Any time you change things, you're taking a gamble.
In the case of yours, I would probably refer to it as paranormal women's fiction but have the cover be a little lighter (though not totally off genre). SOMETIMES you can luck out with that sort of thing in that people just pick it up because they like the basic genre tropes but then find your tone refreshing.
I wish there was a name for urban fantasy, but where the fantasy elements are openly known and not hidden. Like that movie "Bright". So instead of vampires and gods secretly running corporations, it's commonly known that an ancient dragon is the CEO of some company and he's been in the Fortune rich's people list since before Forbes was a thing, or where magic is licensed, etc. I'm thinking "Overt Urban Fantasy" and "Covert Urban fantasy."
Also, I think we need a division between urban fantasy and fantasy as a whole, especially when it comes to self-published stuff: clean vs spicy. It's getting harder and harder to find actual urban fantasy novels that are about action, adventure and fun and not just "daring police woman meets hot fae guy on the mean streets of New York" stuff. I'm honestly thinking of advertising my stuff as "urban fantasy without romance," because I think it is becoming an underserved niche these days.
Yes, this! I find more good fantasy adventures in the Middle School section than in the adult section, exactly because of this. Maybe now that people are free to market as "romantasy", what's left in fantasy will be enjoyable.
I feel like there is definitely a distinct market, in nearly every genre, for:
1. Capital-R romance
2. There is a relationship but it's realistic, not focused on insta-horniness, no extended sex scenes where everyone is the best lover in the universe, etc
3. No romance
I rest in 2, you rest in 3, but I think a lot of the most voracious readers out there are often in 1, so they tend to overwhelm many genres.
It would be great if we just had a little letter system for it the way we have "m/f", "m/m", "mmf" etc to describe types of relationships in romance.
Yes, I definitely rest in 2. I actually read a lot of Christian romances for this reason, even though I myself am agnostic, because they focus on the characters vs just the romance. So their romance books tend to be in 2 or 3.
I used to read a lot of urban fantasy and most enjoyed the ones where the romance takes like five books to solidify so you really get to see the development of the relationship and it makes sense.
I'm getting reaaally burnt out by 1 and wish there were a lot more of 2, of all kinds of relationships. I wrote a book riffing off the problematic darksides of the "enemies to lovers" trope (turned it into "enemies to ???! to enemies") but I'm so scared to publish it because it's not a romance, it's a realistic relationship book, and I'm not sure I can withstand creative hatred/scathing reviews right now when I've already had it from friends and family for always doing the unexpected....
As for the urban fantasy genre where magic isn't hidden, try "Shadowrun inspired" in the keywords. I know Rachel Aaron has been publishing those sorts of urban fantasy worldbuilding books and succeeding at it. Might take a look?
My preferred genre is a Fantasy setting, adventure plotline and a slow-burn romantic subplot that's not a primary to the overarching story, but without it, the story wouldn't make sense. Unfortunately, most books I come across are either a good fantasy with a weak or non-existent romance, or skew more towards romance and have a generic fantasy- ish plot/setting.
Because there are very few books that satisfy this specific itch, I decided to write them myself. But I already feel like it'll be difficult to market (provided I actually manage to finish at least one of my million WIPs 😂).
Same. I hate it when romance is the sole focus of the story and the worldbuilding doenst make that much sense. I try to write my own fantasy book
Lynn Flewelling's Nightrunner books 1&2 were always my fave for this, the world build and plot was great and the true focus of the story but it was also about 2 characters becoming friends/partners who eve~~~~ntually ended up together (but it's m/m romance from the late 90's so ymmv) ❤️
Saaaame. I get so sick when romance takes priority over the plot even though the book is labeled as fantasy. Just like I hate it when romance is hinted at in the blurb but practically non-existent in the story. Like, I just want both without one overshadowing the other while still giving each its own respective area in the spotlight.
yeah, i prefer this type of handling of romance in fantasy books as well but not many do it like that... only one where the romance was minor but i really enjoyed it along the actual plot was uprooted by naomi novik. and that one is a bit of a hard sell to many ppl bc of the age gap...
This is my favorite type of book to read! I think a good representation of this that is more in the sci Fi space is Lee & Miller's Liaden universe.
Loved this video. I've been watching more and more of your uploads. Your laid back, chill converstation style is great.
I really love scifi romance, and I've started calling is Sci-fromance. Hoping it catches on
Very good video! A lot of great insights.
I feel like there's spectrum that goes from "acceptable" to "huh?" when it comes to crossing genres. There is a difference between a novel that straddles the line between romantic-fantasy and fantasy-romance, and a novel that's chick lit crossed with hard sci-fi crossed with inspirational fiction. And between those two ends of the spectrum I feel like there is wiggle-room for what is and isn't marketable.
Also, I think a lot of readers are kinda getting sick of sub-sub-sub genres. I think a lot of readers just want general "epic fantasy" or "historic romance," and can will forgive if every trope isn't there as long as it's well-written.
Omg! I just realized I read your books! They are so good! 😊
Oh wow! I'm glad you enjoyed them!
I love psychological romance... And I hate cookie cutter shit. I want fcked up dark romance that's not carried by the FMC being an idiot, but someone with agency, who doesn't take crap from ML just bc he had a traumatic past or Smth. I want complicated intriguing relationships that are not just 'oh they love each other' 'oh they are childhood friends' but have depth to it. I want moral dilemma regarding these complicated relationships. Honestly my favorite example of this would be the phantom of the Opera and Christine's relationship. When Christine's father died he talked of an angel of music he would send to her. And then the phantom appears as a substitute for her dad basically. This obsession from her side, him holding that power over her, is just so intriguing to me. And obviously a relationship like that has no future, and is unhealthy, but I like to explore these nieche relationships.
I don’t know if her writing would be your cup of tea, as it were, but I love Larissa Ione’s characters. I’ve read most of her books and she gets better and better at writing these characters who have incredible depth and very dark means that brings them together (or holds them apart). I’ve found that a lot of paranormal romances allow for more complicated romances though the range of quality is huge.
The genre I wish had a name would be a dark crime thriller with heavy romance plot. Similar to NBC's Hannibal or even Killing Eve. It has too much of a "procedural/crime (serial killer)" element to be called a romance, but at the same time, the major developing arc across the series is a romance, so therefore, it has too much "romance" for the average crime thriller reader. I really wish there was a genre for this! 🥴
Sounds like Nora Roberts/J.D. Robb's In Death series?
Call it "Thrillmance"
Anything for more Hannibal and killing eve vibes. And put it in a fantasy setting for me.
So you mean darker romantic suspense or darker romantic suspence with less romance? I think I see your problem.
Because I like to make life difficult for myself, my books sort of drift in between genres...magical realism, fantasy, cosy fantasy...my current wip is a 'magical women's fiction with a portal fantasy element' -- none of these quite grasp it but come close-ish which is nightmarish for marketing purposes. My ideal label would be 'real-world-where-faeries-exist-alongside-humans-which-isn't-universally-acknowledged-but-also-not-unusual' -- or perhaps something a bit less wordy :) I read a lot of Charles de Lint and Guy Gavriel Kay (The Fionavar Tapestry! *swoon*) in my early twenties and that's been a huge influence. Alas, it makes it really hard to sum things up in a catchy phrase. I often which I wrote in a clearly defined genre. I'm looking forward to the follow-up videos on this! Thanks so much for talking about it -- marketing is that actual bane of my life :)
I also read a lot of de Lint and I often wonder where that vibe went in the market...
@@lidiyafoxgloveauthor i would very much like for it to come back, please.
Holy crap this is EXACTLY what I needed!
This topic is so apt as my first ever indie book was "A Dark Victorian Gaslamp Fantasy" which involved mythical monsters, Victorian underworld crime, and an unconventional romance. It's the book of my heart but my agent had the most difficult time pitching it, so I eventually went the indie route with it. I think I filed it under steampunk because gaslamp was but a blip on the radar at the time. Like your book, it has light automatons but no airships. Steampunk is also a very difficult genre to sell as it's so niche. Now, having switched genre to contemporary romantic comedy, I'm still struggling to place my books in terms of heat (I'm smack in the middle of the heat rating. Too steamy to be clean, not steamy enough to be spicy. I write door ajar romances). I'll look forward to your future videos about marketing as I obviously need help 😅& for something to click!
Yeah, steampunk is definitely very niche still and probably not something many authors pay the bills with, but it is at least known enough to sell to those who do enjoy it. That sounds really good though! One of my favorite YA was Dearly Departed which had such a weird mix of steampunk & Victorian with zombies, romance, and humor. I'm also moving toward that weird middle ground with heat. My Hidden Lands books usually have a sex scene or two but when I really care about and develop the characters I'm not going to suddenly have my guys be gods of the bedroom and describing the size of their junk, it's more about the emotional connection. I don't really want to leave it out entirely though, especially with my race of doll people, I spent more time as a teenager than I should wondering if Jack and Sally had a sex life 🤣 ...so I wanted to explain the mechanics there
@@lidiyafoxgloveauthor new video request: how to write spicy scenes! 🤣
re: 3:09, the name being important to how the genre is shaped, IS SO ACCURATE. I also write slice of life fantasy; it has violence, and sex, and a few dark elements, but it also has a lot of moments where I'm doing things that would be considered "self-indulgent" in an action fantasy novel. It's *so hard* to tell people about what I'm writing. I had a web serial up and I got incredibly discouraged about trying to market it, so I was just like--why am I doing this to myself, where I post chapters that nobody is going to read? So yeah, I took it down. I'm still working on it, but I'm not sure what to do with it. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ It's frustrating. lol
I feel every bit of this...
Get this! Took down my web serial for the same reason, too dark, too off-brand of current genre trends, no one is going to read this but...seem to be compelled to write it anyway...
I want #philosofantasy to be a thing. Think the philosophical depth of Sophie's World but less "im going to literally give you a history of philosophy course," and more using fantasy setting and gods and spirits and magical beings to explore not just societal dynamics, but metaphysical, epistemological, and theological concepts as well.
So relatable, I think we all have at last one of those hard to market passion project books, 1930s retrofuturism adventure story with a heavy dose of romance, anyone?
Omg would totally read that! 😮
A sub genre I really wish could get a name are Romances that don't have a happy ending... maybe that just doesn't sound appealing, but I always find myself wanting to write stories where the relationship ends up as more like a learning experience. Maybe even a cautionary tale of what *not* to do.
I guess maybe I'm thinking of a tragic romance? But it seems like the word "romance" instantly means that there HAS to be a happily ever after... and while I get the appeal in that, there's GOT to be an audience that is fine with romances that don't end with HEAs...
Usually if you see a book referred to as "a love story", something bad is gonna go down... But you're right that it is not very clear when you're trying to find a book.
I feel ya. The romance genre never really interested me much largely because I’ve always heard that it HAS to be a happy ending. Which sounds so boring to me. I’d rather have the suspense of not always knowing how a story is going to end, not knowing whether or not they’re going to end up together.
I wouldn’t consider my WIP to be a romance, but it does have a couple romantic relationships, sort-of love triangles, that lie at the core of the story. But none of these relationships end up working out well for the first-person narrator.
There seem to be a lot of us in this comment section with this conundrum 😮
My first book definitely fell into this category. Post-Apocalyptic Action-Adventure with a romance subplot and not a HEA for the main couple, because Trauma lol. I need to get a proper cover for it, but the book itself doesn't fit into all of the best selling in that genre. I'm ok with it. It was a story I wanted to tell. I'm writing a more genre-specific less odd-ball book next.
I would like videos that describe in details every genre. :) thank you
There are way too many genres! And many I don't know enough about.
@@lidiyafoxgloveauthor 😅Ok sorry, I think asking every genre was to much. (I do have a lot to learn :) Let's say that I would like more videos on the genres that you know... if it inspire you. (I am french and my english is limited so it can sound strange sometimes) I really enjoy your videos and your channel. thank you very much. You gave me the spark I needed to have more hope and to hold on to my writing. 💌I will just watch all your videos anyway. And I will read your books.
I'm a horror writer and I'm totally fine that it's not exactly on the market for most folk. I’m writing a novel now that kinda has some romance but it mainly serves as a build up to the plot. It's not unheard of a horror story having a romantic plot either but it starts off very formal, a bad event happens on their date which leads the male character getting wounded. Then he kills the person trying to kidnap my FMC, this will sort of be a dilemma for her as well, they're both very catholic and this sort of makes her question his morality. I have a future idea regarding her own morality as well where she does something similar and she questions herself. Was inspired a lot by Cormac McCarthy’s work, Robert W. Chambers, and Christopher Buehlman who wrote Between Two Fires (which I highly recommend reading to anyone who hasn't). Hopefully I can finish this book soon but I see myself working on this for the next few years. Do I think this will be the next best selling horror novel? Would dare to dream but I'd say hardly.
I prob screwed up some talking points when it comes to the FMC questioning the males morality but keep in mind they're both god fearing people. It won't just be her questioning his morality, he does do that I figured I should just mention that at least.
I would love to know more about all the categories (genres? subgenres?) that exist, if possible (at least the ones you explored).
I do love reading Romantasy, but I find the world building so generic with the same old "there are Fae and/or dragons and/or elves" set in mediaval England adjacent settings. What I am writing is basically Epic Romantasy, where there's the romance, but also the world building is completely different to what constitutes a generic fanasty world. The closest comparison I have is I'm trying to write something with a world as bizarre as the Stormlight Archive but with smut. But I hate this comparison as my world is nothing like the Stormlight Archive, but my world, in my opinion, is weird and has a unique magic system which I haven't really based on anything other than what I think is wacky and cool. So yeah, I want to create Epic Romantasy
Yeah, a lot of romantasy doesn't get into the world building much. That's one reason I don't love a lot of it, even though in theory I should.
I've heard this term before!! Elisabeth Wheatley describes her books as epic romantasy and she also has some pretty good recommendations for it too if you were interested
She also has a yt channel and talks a lot about how her world building is inspired by different periods of history because she's also a history nerd
☺
Creature fantasy is my favorite genre-that's-not-an-Amazon-listing. Though I've noticed that when listing the equivalent of BISAC codes in other countries, some do have a listing for it, like in France. It also gets called xenofiction, animal fiction, animal fantasy, and a few other names. For a little bit, the Dragons & Mythical Creatures category was useful for finding books like this. Lately, though, Amazon tosses any book that uses the keyword "dragon" into that category automatically, so it's not just creature fantasy anymore.
I'd define it as a subgenre that has a non-human protagonist. Usually, they're sapient (The Black Gryphon by Mercedes Lackey), but the fan crossover also includes the kids who love sentient protagonists, too, like Raptor Red by Robert T. Bakker. (These are 100% a group of fans who will skewer a fantasy author in reviews for not knowing the difference between sentient, like a bug flying by your window or a squirrel in your yard, and sapient, like able to speak, plan, and imagine.)
I think a lot about how Grimdark became a distinct category because of the hard work done in creating Grimdark Magazine, then pulling in all of the authors writing similar books to write stories for it, until it became a term we all know. Give me a little money and free time, and I suspect I'd get a Creature Fantasy Magazine going to give those fans something to rally around.
Examples: Wings of Fire, Gryphon in Light and the other Valdemar gryphon-protagonist novels by Mercedes Lackey, Guardian Herds, Lord of the Changing Wind by Rachel Neumeier, Ursula Vernon and T. Kingfisher's furrier novels, Cradle of Sea & Sky by Bernie Anes Paz, Raptor Red by Robert T. Bakker, Warrior Cats/FoxCraft/Redwall YA books, Song of the Summer King by Jess E. Owen/Jessica Kara, Dire by John Bailey, Tooth & Claw by Jo Walton, and a lot more.
I never realized the Grimdark genre was thanks to a magazine! That is actually a pretty smart way to define and name a category. Makes me wish I had time to run a cozy-goth anthology.
And goodness are Amazon categories frustrating...
I wish there was a genre where people deal with facts that are non-fictional and that are officially confirmed in our world, but sound utterly incredible and go against the grain. Example of this is Michael Heiser's The Facade. The name for the genre might be "guerilla geek journey."
Another genre I would like to exist is one where the dashing young hero of story one reappears in the sequel as an authority that's utterly out of depth, and possibly corrupt, as a result of all-too human weaknesses like self-complacency and conformism. leading to outdated assumptions and Gell-Mann-amnesia effect. This kind of genre is hinted at in e.g. Isaac Asimov's novels, the Greek mythology, and in the Old Testament. This genre could be described as "revolving doors."
Of course, for me it would be even better to have these two genres combined into one.
@@hughtrevor-flopper3214 a series that sort of falls into that second category is Legends of the First Empire by Michael J. Sullivan (first book is Age of Myth) - I've only read the first book so far but have heard that the format of the series means that a fair amount of time passes between books. It's about a fantasy society of humans developing after they discover their Gods are in fact not deities, but very long lived beings that have oppressed them for centuries and prevented their society from progressing. They basically go from a more primitive hunter-gatherer type of society to making all kinds of inventions and improvements. I can't say for certain there is specifically a character that goes through that arc but it sounds like its a possibility as the story spans a fair amount of time following some of the same characters through it.
There is also something like that character arc happening in Mistborn: The Final Empire by Brandon Sanderson with one of the characters.
Lidiya, I want to read one of your books but had a hard time choosing when browsing - which would you say is the most “slice of life/cozy”?
Either Doll Girl Meets Dead Guy, which is set in my main fantasy world, or Between the Sea and Sky (YA, published as Jaclyn Dolamore).
There's something in the grey area between magical realism and fantasy that I wish had a name. Like the Raven Cycle books are just categorised as fantasy most of the time but I don't know how to find more fantasy like it because it has way more in common with magical realism in terms of overall vibe
Interesting! I have been wondering what the book I want to write falls into but it might be slice of life fantasy: where it is in a fantasy/science fantasy world but the challenges the characters face are more internal than external.
I wonder if there’s a genre for characters who have to cope with living in a world where the bad guy won? How do they survive? No “let’s try again, a new hero has approached!” Just… “well, fuck. Now what? Well, cope, survive, I guess.”
Thoughts?
That could fall under dystopian, since that genre deals with the world after some sort of collapse or catastrophe, which could be a range of events.
I like the idea of having a sort of "Vantage Point" genre where you have a story where different characters are experiencing the same event but in their minds, they're interpreting it in a different way. A group of people stuck in a traffic jam would have a bunch of different experiences. One might be on the run from the police. Another might be late for a wedding. Another is about to die in an ambulance. Etc. Each one could be treated like it's own little genre piece, but together, they're a bigger picture. I don't know if that kind of genre or sub-genre exists.
Rashomon
Super relate to what you said about both the good parts and limitations of the names of subgenres, particularly cozy fantasy! My main book series has been labeled "cozy fantasy" by others, so I market it that way now--but they're all about characters healing from trauma, so there's actually a lot of stuff in there that's potentially stressful or upsetting. Sometimes I worry people might get the wrong idea (even with the trigger warning list at the front) and be upset/disappointed. I've been told it still counts as cozy because the hard stuff is handled a certain way (gently, like getting a hug), but still. It's very weird trying to figure out what "counts" or doesn't for the genre. Like you said, different readers have different expectations! 😅 It's tough.
Yeah, I've been telling people mine are more meant to be comfort reads than 100% cozy.
@@lidiyafoxgloveauthor That's a good distinction! I'll have to remember that one 👀
I'm writing a Resident Evil-like Zombie book that has a romance in it lol....idk what genre what would even be XD
i think i'd call that genre domestic fantasy, maybe as a little nod to domestic thrillers that were huge a few years ago
I finally understand what slice-of-life is 😅
i wish character studies had more sexy label. cause i feel like the books that are just studying human condition are considered boring. maybe that's just me though.
Historical Romantasy?
I need bromance as a genre. My first book was about two actors who realize how much they care for each other when they're forced to live out fan fiction tropes. Then I realized I had no language to market it. Not really Fantasy, not a romance, big flop
I do love a good bromance. I suspect this is the sort of thing that works better, saleswise, piggybacking on a more common trope and/or that readers who like bromances just end up reading cute m/m stories instead, but...it's a big plus for me when a book has a bromance.
Diane Callahan tried to name a new genre - Curio Fiction.
Is the book that inspired Cozy Fantasy, not even technically Cozy Fantasy? Because T’andri the Tiefling does have a traumatic past that comes up in Legends & Lattes
I think a lot of what is cozy fantasy DOES have some un-cozy moments, truthfully. Because...well, while western storytelling can be a bit over-focused on conflict, it really IS hard to float an entire genre on nothing being stressful to anyone ever.
@@lidiyafoxgloveauthor I think I have read some fantasy novels that were kind of hangout books, like a hangout show or a hangout movie, your enjoyment of the thing depends on whether or not you particularly like the characters you’re getting to know. Tam Lin, by Pamela Dean, or stuff like Howl’s Moving Castle. A lot of stuff happening around a young woman coming of age and then, all of a sudden at the end there’s a crisis
What about a quasi romance within a crime novel? What would that be called...because it's entitled "A Friend for Eve."
Who can I sell "Conspiracy Theory/SciFi/Romance/Action/Thriller" to?
Like, 12 people?
Worth it!
There is something to be said for the micro-genre!
"Burton-core", "black/pink", "pink punk"
Oof oof oof so many people with disdain for the genre they are trying to write in the comments section this time.
I hope your cats are up to no good in the background of ALL of your future videos.
That is QUITE likely, haha