Where were you when I bought rope for tree felling 5 years ago? I've been fighting my rope and it's been fighting back. It might have been winning. And I suddenly, as you explained what's wrong with "pretty" coils, remembered "flemishing" lines on deck or fire hoses on the ground-laying either out in a natural figure eight. Brilliant, but not "Bristol fashion." Subscribed and thank you. DOUGout
Always knew about coiling into figure 8s, but never thought about doing lines on the winch that way. You just made my coming sailing season great and its only January. Thanks
Now it all makes sense. I've spent years doing it the wrong way and introducing "hockles" ? known locally here as caffle. Great informative video. Thanks for taking the time to make the video and share this knowledge with us all.
Awesome video! It's amazing the things you stumble upon on TH-cam that you never knew you needed to know (wonderful times we're living in). I now also understand why those neatly coiled ropes you by in the store have to be fully extended to get the kinks out before you can use them :)
Nice video. I have always tucked the end of the line through one more time after making the gasket, locking it. This ensures that it doesn't get untangled when someone is really digging through the line locker and churning-up the stored lines. Also, once it has been passed through the loop the line can be hung up from it as well without doing that other type of lock. Standardization is good. I like to use a clove hitch around whatever I'm tying the tail too. It's faster to untie, or slide up or down if that becomes necessary to make all the lines in a row look alike and neat.
I learned to coil using laid rope which needs the twist as it tightens the lay when it uncoils, now I need to unlearn that for the braided ropes... Thanks!
Leaving the content aside the video is very well done. Include the content and it is fantastic. At least for me the tying element is the very nice show and tell example of kinking before the pulley. I'm not a sailor but doing some rigging this summer. None of my lines are organized and neat when stored but they will be. Great video. Thank you.
I was actually taught to put the twist in! This really is an excellent video. There is normally only one best way to coil ropes and this video seems to be it.
I wish this was taught more widely. "Neatly" coiled ropes cause all sorts of issues when they're put back out into working length. Some might think that adding an alternating twist to the added coil or reversing the direction of the accumulated coils in your other hand makes this problem go away - it doesn't. Those techniques do simplify making the rope coil, but the problem of twist and kinks still occurs when you pull the line out. Think of a spool of monofilament fishing line: if you pull it off the end of the spool and the spool remains fixed, you'll get a twisted, kinked mess in no time. But if you pull it off so the spool spins (e.g. like it comes off a winch), then there is no kinking. This is universal to all coils (and extension cords, for that matter, too.) One of my pet peeves are musicians and lighting riggers that demand these neat coils in their electrical cords. Perfectly neat coils, always fighting twists and kinks, though they never admit it.
Hi Kyle, at (7:46) it was identified to start from the "working end". If it was started at the other end ( standing end); would it not more easily help to automatically remove any twists or kinks ?
You can get the best of both worlds by adding a little twist on one loop, and adding reverse twist the next loop. One loop goes outside the starting point, and the next goes inside. The mnemonic is "Over worked and under paid".
This is too good. Parts were even downright ribhurting funny. I don't get why coiling lines correctly is not made a required part of any ASA 101, or even 103 and 104 sailing class. This is so basic, and fundamental, and critical! It simply has to be learned right, or else trouble will brew.
That "no twist coil" is called a flake, it's the way you lay a hoisted halyard on the deck of a boat big enough to have space to do that. To deal with a kinked coil and you have room, just toss it like you were tossing a line to another boat, the kinks will spread out enough not to be a bother. Sometimes that room is the water, oh well. When making the coil I like to start with the shackle near my hand rather than at the bottom of the loop, then I swirl the coil while making the wrap, seems to take half the time. Then you make the lock on the bottom half of the coil so that shackle still hangs straight down. Either way the line "fill run hockle". Good job, don't mind my two cents. I think I'll start calling a fair running line a hockled line from now on, sounds Scottish.
Interesting. I'm on safety boat duty this week so I will see how my way (roll the top part of the coil with the thumb and fingers) compares with yours.
People might think "So what? So the rope has twist in it?" Well I have personally seen a wire rope with so much twist in it, the wire rope was flinging red hot hunks of steel off the flange of the drum it was paying out of! Maybe a drastic case made more serious by the circumstances, namely is was a wire rope on a crane 28 mm in diameter but it's still illustrative of what's going on and the forces your rigging can exert on itself. You can get a view into this on a more expanded field by searching for wire rope manufacturers web sites. All these companies do is research on different types of rope. Natural, synthetic, steel. Even though a yachtsman will never use one inch or thicker cable or rope whatever you want to call it, you will get a better understanding of what's going on with your stuff.
Good video and i rarely see shipmates doing it like this. Two questions: is there a technique to ensure the working end not fall through the loops causing a knot during storage or handling? You call out this is for Braided Lines - would this technique be for non braided lines?
Hi Rudy, Occasionally, we've seen crew leave the working end (especially with a shackle on the end) longer than the length of the coils. This keeps it outside, and on one side of the coil. The only downside is potential for that end to tangle with other lines. Braided lines are symmetrically woven, and will begin to kink when twist is introduced (in either direction), thus the need for figure eight coils. Twisted line (3-strand), is able to absorb the twist introduced with coiling a line, so figure eight coiling is not needed. Exceptions to this would be: 1. If the line is old, and sun hardened (will not twist), 2. If the line is made with fibers that are not supple (or are resin coated for durability). Hope this clears things up. Thanks for watching! -APS
Hi Rudy, These technics are specifically for braided line. Three strand does not generally require as meticulous coiling, as it will twist in either direction (unless it is old and stiff).
Hi I object to your use of the terms “ properly “ and “improperly “. Both techniques have their place . The type of rope and what it’s line will be use for are governing factors. Figure 8 coils are the way to go when setting up for a vertical pull. Try using that on a heaving line ,vertically or horizontally and it will be birds nest mess. Coiling styles that work in lines with cores,multi strand lines, and bidirectional lines , don’t always translate to three strand. There is still a lot 3 strand in use, of varying size from your small stuff to ,the biggest I’ve coiled recently 10” emergency hawsers( 1000’ Flemish coil in a fore peak set for a vertical pull). There are even two strand left handed lines ( coiled counter clockwise).The thing about all coils is that the bites mustn’t cross each other , as happened to varying degrees with both of your vertical demonstrations . Rope is one of man’s oldest and most profound inventions. From the grass and hide ropes of the ancients to carbon fiber of big money sail racing of today, rope is ever evolving. Each piece of line has it’s idiosyncrasies for use and stowage,hence my objection. My bonafides... sailing large and small boats since I was 8, merchant seaman since ‘81 and currently 20years a union deck- hand on seagoing tugs.
Thanks for your comment. Your point is a good one. This video is for braided line (we put this in the title, but I could have emphasized this in the video...). You are correct, twisted line (3-strand) does not require figure 8 coiling. In terms of the figure 8's needing to be one on top of the other to prevent entanglement, this is generally avoided by keeping the uncoiling line a fair distance away from the first turn or block (or just throwing it into the cockpit or down the companion way).
Well I was coiling boat line just like I used to roll up equipment cabling and ran across an argument from a mariner that is not going to work for keeping rope stored for quick deployment. Came a point that for mass audio cable storage we ended up using cord reels.
Where were you when I bought rope for tree felling 5 years ago? I've been fighting my rope and it's been fighting back. It might have been winning. And I suddenly, as you explained what's wrong with "pretty" coils, remembered "flemishing" lines on deck or fire hoses on the ground-laying either out in a natural figure eight.
Brilliant, but not "Bristol fashion."
Subscribed and thank you.
DOUGout
Always knew about coiling into figure 8s, but never thought about doing lines on the winch that way. You just made my coming sailing season great and its only January. Thanks
Now it all makes sense. I've spent years doing it the wrong way and introducing "hockles" ? known locally here as caffle. Great informative video. Thanks for taking the time to make the video and share this knowledge with us all.
Awesome video! It's amazing the things you stumble upon on TH-cam that you never knew you needed to know (wonderful times we're living in). I now also understand why those neatly coiled ropes you by in the store have to be fully extended to get the kinks out before you can use them :)
Nice video. I have always tucked the end of the line through one more time after making the gasket, locking it. This ensures that it doesn't get untangled when someone is really digging through the line locker and churning-up the stored lines. Also, once it has been passed through the loop the line can be hung up from it as well without doing that other type of lock. Standardization is good. I like to use a clove hitch around whatever I'm tying the tail too. It's faster to untie, or slide up or down if that becomes necessary to make all the lines in a row look alike and neat.
I learned to coil using laid rope which needs the twist as it tightens the lay when it uncoils, now I need to unlearn that for the braided ropes... Thanks!
Thank you! I wasn't aware of this method. Looping the lines on my boat will never be the same again!
Leaving the content aside the video is very well done. Include the content and it is fantastic. At least for me the tying element is the very nice show and tell example of kinking before the pulley. I'm not a sailor but doing some rigging this summer. None of my lines are organized and neat when stored but they will be. Great video. Thank you.
Great videos. The best I have seen on the subject
That was impeccably well done. Very easy to see and understand exactly how it is done. Very Very well taught INDEED. Thanks!
I was actually taught to put the twist in! This really is an excellent video. There is normally only one best way to coil ropes and this video seems to be it.
I wish this was taught more widely. "Neatly" coiled ropes cause all sorts of issues when they're put back out into working length. Some might think that adding an alternating twist to the added coil or reversing the direction of the accumulated coils in your other hand makes this problem go away - it doesn't. Those techniques do simplify making the rope coil, but the problem of twist and kinks still occurs when you pull the line out. Think of a spool of monofilament fishing line: if you pull it off the end of the spool and the spool remains fixed, you'll get a twisted, kinked mess in no time. But if you pull it off so the spool spins (e.g. like it comes off a winch), then there is no kinking. This is universal to all coils (and extension cords, for that matter, too.) One of my pet peeves are musicians and lighting riggers that demand these neat coils in their electrical cords. Perfectly neat coils, always fighting twists and kinks, though they never admit it.
Hey! I liked my perfectly neat coils :) ❤️
58 yrs old and learn this man, what you can learn on youtube.
Hi Kyle, at (7:46) it was identified to start from the "working end". If it was started at the other end ( standing end); would it not more easily help to automatically remove any twists or kinks ?
You can get the best of both worlds by adding a little twist on one loop, and adding reverse twist the next loop. One loop goes outside the starting point, and the next goes inside. The mnemonic is "Over worked and under paid".
Be warey of letting one end of that 'rescue coil' go thru and get pulled out the wrong side, because you will get a chain of overhand knots!
This is too good. Parts were even downright ribhurting funny. I don't get why coiling lines correctly is not made a required part of any ASA 101, or even 103 and 104 sailing class. This is so basic, and fundamental, and critical! It simply has to be learned right, or else trouble will brew.
One of best video about this subject... Great job 👍👍👍
Hockling, not hockeling. Great video. So quit making perfect loops with that garden hose!
That "no twist coil" is called a flake, it's the way you lay a hoisted halyard on the deck of a boat big enough to have space to do that.
To deal with a kinked coil and you have room, just toss it like you were tossing a line to another boat, the kinks will spread out enough not to be a bother. Sometimes that room is the water, oh well.
When making the coil I like to start with the shackle near my hand rather than at the bottom of the loop, then I swirl the coil while making the wrap, seems to take half the time. Then you make the lock on the bottom half of the coil so that shackle still hangs straight down. Either way the line "fill run hockle".
Good job, don't mind my two cents. I think I'll start calling a fair running line a hockled line from now on, sounds Scottish.
Very nice! Well taught. I learned a lot.
Absolutely great lesson.
Interesting. I'm on safety boat duty this week so I will see how my way (roll the top part of the coil with the thumb and fingers) compares with yours.
Thanks for watching Charles. Let us know how it works for you!
People might think "So what? So the rope has twist in it?"
Well I have personally seen a wire rope with so much twist in it, the wire rope was flinging red hot hunks of steel off the flange of the drum it was paying out of! Maybe a drastic case made more serious by the circumstances, namely is was a wire rope on a crane 28 mm in diameter but it's still illustrative of what's going on and the forces your rigging can exert on itself. You can get a view into this on a more expanded field by searching for wire rope manufacturers web sites. All these companies do is research on different types of rope. Natural, synthetic, steel. Even though a yachtsman will never use one inch or thicker cable or rope whatever you want to call it, you will get a better understanding of what's going on with your stuff.
I don’t sail at this time. But this info is good to know even for most other boats that have “lines” to be managed. Thanks for posting this video.
Good video and i rarely see shipmates doing it like this. Two questions: is there a technique to ensure the working end not fall through the loops causing a knot during storage or handling? You call out this is for Braided Lines - would this technique be for non braided lines?
Hi Rudy,
Occasionally, we've seen crew leave the working end (especially with a shackle on the end) longer than the length of the coils. This keeps it outside, and on one side of the coil. The only downside is potential for that end to tangle with other lines.
Braided lines are symmetrically woven, and will begin to kink when twist is introduced (in either direction), thus the need for figure eight coils. Twisted line (3-strand), is able to absorb the twist introduced with coiling a line, so figure eight coiling is not needed. Exceptions to this would be: 1. If the line is old, and sun hardened (will not twist), 2. If the line is made with fibers that are not supple (or are resin coated for durability).
Hope this clears things up. Thanks for watching!
-APS
Hi Rudy, These technics are specifically for braided line. Three strand does not generally require as meticulous coiling, as it will twist in either direction (unless it is old and stiff).
Marvellous thank you so much.Subscribed.
Hi I object to your use of the terms “ properly “ and “improperly “. Both techniques have their place . The type of rope and what it’s line will be use for are governing factors. Figure 8 coils are the way to go when setting up for a vertical pull. Try using that on a heaving line ,vertically or horizontally and it will be birds nest mess. Coiling styles that work in lines with cores,multi strand lines, and bidirectional lines , don’t always translate to three strand. There is still a lot 3 strand in use, of varying size from your small stuff to ,the biggest I’ve coiled recently 10” emergency hawsers( 1000’ Flemish coil in a fore peak set for a vertical pull). There are even two strand left handed lines ( coiled counter clockwise).The thing about all coils is that the bites mustn’t cross each other , as happened to varying degrees with both of your vertical demonstrations .
Rope is one of man’s oldest and most profound inventions. From the grass and hide ropes of the ancients to carbon fiber of big money sail racing of today, rope is ever evolving. Each piece of line has it’s idiosyncrasies for use and stowage,hence my objection.
My bonafides... sailing large and small boats since I was 8, merchant seaman since ‘81 and currently 20years a union deck- hand on seagoing tugs.
Thanks for your comment. Your point is a good one. This video is for braided line (we put this in the title, but I could have emphasized this in the video...). You are correct, twisted line (3-strand) does not require figure 8 coiling. In terms of the figure 8's needing to be one on top of the other to prevent entanglement, this is generally avoided by keeping the uncoiling line a fair distance away from the first turn or block (or just throwing it into the cockpit or down the companion way).
Wrap your electrical cords this way too... (especially long ones like on a vacuum cleaner)... no kinks...
Why do most knot videos show the actions from the viewer’s perspective an not the tier’s?
Great video, thanks for sharing.
ThnkU ThnkU ThnkU. Great to know
Great advice thank you 🙏
Great video ,thanks
Thx u unknot a puzzle that haunted me for yrs
Excellent, thanks.
sailors can learn alot watching how AV stagehands handle their much more expensive cable
Well I was coiling boat line just like I used to roll up equipment cabling and ran across an argument from a mariner that is not going to work for keeping rope stored for quick deployment. Came a point that for mass audio cable storage we ended up using cord reels.
Wow!!! Thank u!
That’s a great video
Sending this to my musician friends (>_
Oh, for audio cables and the like?
Thank you
Thanks
Phase cancellation.
I've been doing it the wrong way for over 50 years....
Thank you Jesus! :-)
Now you know why it's necessary to fix your "bigboatitus" issue when nearing 50 feet folks! just "Knot" worth the effort!
We have been flaking our lines for years so as not to introduce any twist whatsoever.
‘Buntline hitch”
Funny to see him twist the line counter clockwise.