Do you need 12 point sockets
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 30 ก.ค. 2020
- Here I am talking about the need for 12 point sockets.
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Exactly right about why 12 points existed back in the day. Those older coarse tooth ratchets had less flexibility in tight spots. But there were times when you couldn't use a ratchet and were in a tight spot and those 12pt combination or box end wrenches could bail you out.
Exactly. Thank you 👍👍👍
Also can be used on a breaker bar.
I think it’s good to have both to be honest with you because once in awhile you still will run into a 12 point fastener.
12 point=breaker bar socket
As a DIYer, I have NO idea what kind of fastener I'll find. Buying old machines or fixing up stuff around the house is a good way to get new tools because you WILL find that one screw, bolt, nail, or staple that the last guy cursed and left rusted and broken where the foreman's flashlight dont shine LOL. (Like that bathroom with the particle board floor....🤮😡
I dont think I have ever even touched a 12pt, but I HAVE found that 12pt sockets have helped on old or odd sized bolts or screws that are just a bit too big for the smaller size and a bit too small for the next size up. I do get the argument that it might round off a 6pt, but if it isn't coming off with any of the 6pt sockets, then the 12pt probably is a better solution than a bolt extractor!
Thank you for mentioning other trades! Ive worked Diesels, marine, railroad and aviation. Lots of 12point hardware. I think i may have gummed up some hardware years ago woth a 12pt but, i wont admit it and i haven't don so in many years. I do own 6point but they only come out if some other tech left me a nice stripped out bolt.
Yes,certain ones for driveline and engine reasons.I have a few for these reason,one is a 12 point 30mm deepwell impact socket for Toyota axle nuts which VW/Audi uses as well.Bought a Grey Pnuematic impact socket instead of a tool truck brand due to cost,$13.00 and some change vs $53.00 for a Snap On socket.12 point 12mm for Ford driveshaft bolts,1/2 12 point on Jeep 4.0 headbolts,12 point 13mm and 9/16 used on wheelbearing bolts in certain Chrysler products.GM 4L80E transmissions,one 12 point 3/8 headed fastner in it.
I have a lot of fine tooth ratchets , so I don't have to worry about 12 point sockets. I only bring them into play If I need to deal with 12-point fasteners.
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Thank you sir so very much for answering a lot of my questions about sockets. I love your channel!!! 😎
Thank you I appreciate it 👍
Don't forget they fit square head bolts too. Very handy for farm or old equipment
Ya another commenter just mention that for antiques and elevator work. 👍
impact sockets 6 pt. chrome sockets 6 and 12 pt, wrenches i prefer 6 pt but they are harder to find so I have both 6 and 12 pt... Good points, keep the videos coming.
Very nice and sounds like your set for both situations. Thank you 👍👍👍
I was a machinist at Dake Corp. back in the late 70’s. We had some machines with”fairy head bolts”. The bolt head looked like a flower. 12 point sockets worked on these bolt heads.
Very nice. I don't think I've ever seen those. Good to know though
I have both, the only thing i use 12pt is pounding them onto rounded Fasteners. It's much easier to pound on the next size down 12 point than it is 6 points
Hahaha your not wrong 🤣
I have a whole box of cheap crappy garage sale acquisitions for exactly this lol.
Just recently I had purchased a cheap 12 point deep SAE socket set from a brand called Performance Tool for $20.00 the sockets are made in Taiwan they look like good quality.
Hello again Tony
Thank you for another Great Video. As an Aircraft Mechanic I usually do not have a choice in the type of hardware 6 or 12 point. I have to be ready for both. I wish, all I had to be concerned with is 6 point hardware, life might be a little bit easier. Again thank you
Haha I hear that alot with aircraft mechanics. I'm glad you enjoyed. Thank you 👍
@@TonyTheTechnician Hello again Tony
This has nothing to do with the subject. I just received my Tekton catalog. I was disappointed that they didn't offer the anti-slip open end wrenches. Unless you're truly Miss it. I thought you did a review, but I couldn't find it. I appreciate any help. And thank you again for all the great Video's
For Aviation you run into 12pt fasteners constantly. About 50% of the bolts I turn have 12 point heads, or nuts, or both. Additionally we work constantly to combat corrosion and almost everything bigger than a #10 screw (and even many of those) has a strictly followed torque spec, so rounding fasteners is extremely rare. So my personal advice for guys getting into aviation maintenance is spend your Snap-On money on a nice set of 12 point sockets (especially in 1/4 drive) , and get a cheaper set of 6 points for the rare instance you need them. The 12 point will work fine for 99.9% of fasteners requiring sockets.
One specific instance where it becomes a problem on my aircraft (UH-60s) is on the rotor brake heat shield fasteners. They are made of a fairly soft alloy, and torqued really high for their size. (115 inch pounds with a 5/16 socket) so they tend to round out pretty easily. Often a 6 point socket will remove the heat shield nut where a 12 point could not.
Perfect and correct answer. Great points that your non-mechanically inclined never think about. I get SF tired of the "more contact points" argument for 12 points being used on 6 pt standard bolts. Nonsense. You said it right - surface area is the key! They do index easier.
An excellent example - look at degrees of rotation to get rounding (apex of point on fastener centered on socket's flat). 30 deg vs 60 deg
Well, the argument used to be that a 12point socket gives you two positions to place your socket on a 6 point fastener in a tight spot. . . .That probably was a valid argument back in the old days when Ratchets only had 36 teeth with much higher arch swings....but in today's world where ratchets commonly have 80 to 90 teeth, that argument no longer holds weight.
That's exactly what I said in the video
Yeah, I work mainly on my Harleys but also on a couple older vehicles. The HD does have mostly 6 pt stuff but there are exceptions. The brake caliper(s) for example are mounted with 12 pt 10 mm bolts. You simply can't get them off to change pads without that socket. So, yeah, fairly common to run into the need for 12 pt.
Indeed. Thanks for sharing 👍
Yes Tony, i need and want 12 points, i have them all complete sets, than again i m a tool junkie, i use all my tools cause i get calls to fix a wide variety of things and yes i grew up on 12 points that you pointed out some history, realy good video Tony! 👍👍👍👍👍
Thank you and that's awesome to hear. Thanks for sharing. Glad you enjoyed as well. 👍👍👍
I have a bunch of 12 points in SAE and metric for both 1/4 and 3/8 drive. Granted there are skips mostly due to buying piece sets that came with a bunch of stuff included. That's how I started off with my first sets of tools that came in blow molded cases.
I prefer 6 point and won't ever use a 12 point on a 6 point bolt unless I'm missing that size in 6 point. But that never seems to be the case so far. I agree that you will run into a situation where you will need to have 12 sockets, so it's always good to have a reserve.
Thank you and I agree also. And ya I think that's what my first socket set was that came in a blow molded case. I think my first one was a Stanley set from about 15 years ago
@@TonyTheTechnician Like the sayin' goes "it's better to have it and not need it, than not have it and need it".
Finally, someone is asking the right questions! Also, i just finished a bottle of that Four Roses! Tasty stuff.
Hey!!! Very nice. Glad you enjoy it as well. I want to try some of the others they offer as well 👍
All my crome sockets are 12 point and I've never had any issues.
6 and 12pt have their place.
That being said I'll change out 12pt to 6pt if i can on my junk.
Definitely putting 12pt onca 6pt is a good way to round out the faster.
That's smart if that works best for you. And yes indeed 👍
you have it backwards,,, 12 point is not a safe to use than a 6 point.. a 6 point will engage the bolt/nut flats... the 12 point mostly the tips/ edges of the bolts.. over 20 years exp. on classic italian cars.. i might know something
@@randellgribben9772 i said putting a 12pt on a 6pt faster is a good way to round off said faster. Been working on outdoor power equipment and heavy equipment for 17 years. And i don't claim to know it all.
@@ifitsnotbrokenfixit1193 sorry miss read...
Not true. A 12 point socket on a 12 point fastener actually covers more surface are then a 6 point. Look at actual images of a 6 point contact locations. It's just past the points. It's not the flats that are making contact under torque. But yes it's always best to use 6 point on a 6 point fastener. Just like you shouldn't use 6 point on a 12 point fastener.
Most cheap sets will have 12 point shallow with 6 point deep. Pittsburgh sets are the same. From experience, 6 points with heat is the way to go in the salt belt. Of all the frozen bolts that I put penetrants on, I have not seen anything "penetrate" the rusted threaded section. I'd rather spend some $ on torch+miniductor than spending the weekend working on rounded bolt/nut in an unaccessible area. Of course unless it is an actual 12 point bolt like head bolt, drive shaft, etc.
I use a huge mechanics set of US made Craftsman with some premium brands mixed in there to fill the holes. Both in a shop and at home used extensively I've never rounded a fastener with a 12 point. Perhaps if I had a set made at the end of the tooling life that may be different, but I've been alright. I have still found several 6 points in the common sizes and added them to the same rails so they are an option for anything I may suspect now. That took a few years of pawn shop bin digging to add.
I have both 12 and 6 point impact sets, cheap and also expensive- same story.
Gonna add that all have the equivalent of "Flank Drive" so they don't put pressure on the corners like really cheap sockets do.
Hey buddy good video, I agree. You should do a test to see each can take before slipping/rounding off. It'd make a good video!
Thank you!!!
I had been in the heavy diesel trade for 10 years before I bought 6 point sockets. The caterpillar set I was given as an apprentice only had 12 point. It was only after I moved to working on underground machines I bought 6 point as corrosion is a big issues.
Oh nice and ya I bet. I didn't even think about that. Great point. 👍
Why I have not got sk ratcheting wrenches is the 6 point. 7/16 and 9/16 are both used on beam clamps and the 7/16 is a square fastener so 6point is no bueno. But if it's an impact or anything higher torque then I grab 6 point for that.
i sometimes slightly tap a 12 point on a rounded fastener acts as a quick extractor
Stripping a fastener with a 12 pt was usually when using a ratchet with a lot of leverage and ending up a bit askew. On an impact, it seems like it should be less problematic.
I did a beak job on my 04 civic I used a 12 point socket and it striped the bolt pretty bad. I had to buy a special socket to remove striped bolts and it was a real pain in the butt. Now I try to use only 6 points.
If you come across 12 point bolts or square fasteners then yes. If not I'd say 6 point is way too go
Agreed 👍
What if both 6pt and 12pt sets cost the same price, which one would you get???
Man I never wanna be the guy to say I've never rounded a bolt with a 12pt because guess what it's about to happen now LOL!
Lmao 🤣 right 😅
I actually bought a Wiha 10 mm to 24 mm 12 point half inch socket set with extensions.... because I didn't have any 12 point ....a guy should have some.... ( example 👉head studs... main studs...alot of nicer aftermarket fasteners)...six point is great but sometimes you need to get in there with a 12-point.... nice set too....
Kobalt had a good set with quite a few 12 point sockets and it won't break thre bank...
7:10... funny you said that...... I actually just now got done taking my flywheel to torque converter bolts out and I started with an 18 mm 12-point and ended up having to use a DeWalt six point(chrome)to get them out....lol
Haha exactly it happens and sometimes you just have to use chrome or whatever you have to get that job done. Completely agree with you. Thank you for sharing your thoughts. 👍👍👍
Tony - great video! Knew most of the content - but, refresher is always good. If you have time - could you advise me on a recommendation for a good weekend warrior hydraulic jack and creeper for a car & small SUV ? Any brands, model #s, whatever would be much appreciated. Take good care....
A bottle jack style or floor jack?
Ya unfortunately all I have used for floor Jack's in the last 5-10 years are the Carlyle and the Pittsburgh 3 ton and truthfully they have both done very very well for me. Now I won't even get started on creepers. I think every single one I get is comfortable but never rolls how I want it to and I get so aggravated lol. Most the time I decide to lay on the ground. Sorry I couldn't be of more help.
TonyTheTechnician ok, thanks!
The Pittsburgh / Daytona 3 ton low profile... can't beat the price and last FOREVER... Gearwrench or Traxion creeper 🏁
@@boosted2.4_sky Agree. I own the Daytona 3 tone low profile heavy duty and it's held up really good. I've heard the Pittsburgh 3 ton is a great choice as well.
I buy Four Roses small batch by the case. Its good stuff
Very nice!!! I want to start trying some of the others they make. This was my first time with four roses. Pretty dang good
i work for dodge and everyone in the shop has a 12pt 1/2in 7/8 for the chrome capped lug nuts idk exactly why but they just don't get stuck as much as 6 pt and you feel like a nascar put crew guy bc of how you can get the socket on the nuts so easy lmao
I recently bought some new 6-pt socket sets that were a pretty good deal with the ratchet included. But I kept my old Craftsman 12-pts sets I had and then gave away my old 6-pts to my nephew.
I have also thrown away a couple 12 pt sockets that eventually wore down over time and weren't effective anymore.
Nice and ya I have done that as well. After some time those 12p do wear down. Great point
12 pt works on square nuts. Probably won't run into it at home unless you work on vintage machinery, antiques or heavy industrial items.
Ya I haven't seen square in a very long time!!!
@@TonyTheTechnician Yea the hanging blocks we use to grip the rails in an elevator shaft to suspend the the car so we can take slack off the cables are all square drive. You can imagine how much pressure is on them. Not sure what the science behind them still being square drive is since everything else is 6pt SAE on most elevators
If you ever happen to find yourself working on a jet engine. Gonna want those 12 point sockets. Jet engines love 12 point bolts
Those are 12 pt spline fasteners requiring spline sockets.
You will never remove a starter from a any HD application, or like you stated U joint‘s Definitely need a set of 3/8” and 1/2” drive sockets. I recommend Metric.
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12pt is easier to hammer on a stripped fastener to get it out as well.
It's true 😂👍
Im here because a Quinn 12 point 21 piece socket/wrench set at HF popped up in My Coupons today for $9.99 (Starbucks money)
I can't disagree at all. On aircraft even on 6 point fasteners with ratchetless ratchets there are situations that you may not get on it with a 6 point socket. If you CAN get on it, a six point is better. Frustration early in my career using my 6 points lead to my 12 point 1st habit. I keep some 6 points for rough fasteners or for really overtorqued ones. They have their place for sure. On show piece type stuff they are the only option. Scuffing the plating on fasteners looks pretty bad, 12 points can do that.
Very true and good way to go about it. Thank you for sharing your thoughts and process 👍
Needing a 12 point socket and not having it is worse than buying it and not needing it.
Exactly 👍
Yes Tony, you need 12 points, every body needs 12 points, but thats comming from a tool junkie like me🔧🔧🔧🔧🔧
Haha I agree. I always come across 12 points. Drive shafts, flex plates, head bolts, hub nuts and much more.
i use 6 points to break free high tq. fasteners.. 12 point for light duty fasteners...or not rusted in..* always use anti seize on exhaust bolts ans suspension bolts... i have rarely ever seen a 12 point bolt or not.. a few but only on con rod bolts... can you even buy 12 point ( head ) bolts...? my advice after working 20 years on Italian cars.. to break free any bolt go 6 point,, you are less likely to round off the head of the bolt... more surface area on the scocket/ combo wrench to the bolt.. 12 point scockets/ combo wrenchs.. only half the gripping area om the bolt... the 6 point will engage the flats of the bolts mush better.. the 12 pints will engage the tips/ edges ot the fastener..
I have both....lots of arp fasteners on my mustang
I know how you feel lol 👍👍👍
Up here in the north with everything is rusted 6 point the way to go. I don't get why so many places sell 12 points in all the diy kits.
Ya rusted fasteners in general are a pain. But 12 point would be worse in that case for sure 👍
a lot of diesel engines have 12 point bolts
Four roses 🌹 good stuff!
Indeed!!! 👍
Just go with spline drives and call it a day. LOL.😂 Naw jk Great advice in this video.
Haha be careful what you say your going to stir the pot with someone who hates spline drive 😂👍
Thank you
I HATE SPLINE DRIVE! HOW DARE YOU WANT ME TO USE THEM!
Just kidding, I dont really have any problem or experience using either one, but I think I'd prefer the 12pt since it ISNT the one the Chinese use for "universal" sockets LOL
@@woodworkerroyer8497 😂😂😂👍
Yep, you can do that too
please update this video,, with a collection of 12 point bolts... that you can show..i will be waiting,, auto 12 loint bolts and nuts... not aircraft..i.e. jet engines
Ya I can show you plenty. Ie drive shafts, bellhousings, torque converters, headers, intake manifolds and much more
@@TonyTheTechnician 12 point allen type on german cv axles... header ? some special ones with lock system on them.. but over all a very , very small portion of bolts/ nut are 12 points. i have been working on classic italian cars for over 20 years.. i also work on the same customers honda's, toyota's ( no bmw;s ) and some ford and chevys.. and almost never come across at12 oint bolt or nut all that often
Back the blue! Just saw the flag! ⚫🔵⚫
Always 👍👍👍🇺🇸
This thread just gave me a great idea for my new US General box. The base color is blue, so with a bit of white and red paint, I should be able to make a nice flag on the front.
It SOUNDS like a good idea, but we'll see.
💪🏻😈👍🏻🍹 🍻
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Just get a GatorGrip
Get that comment out of here 😂😂😂
I can only think of 3 triple square sockets which are a nessessity