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2020 Santa Cruz Tallboy vs. Trek Fuel EX 9.9 Review | New Light Trail Bikes Head to Head
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 7 ส.ค. 2024
- Mike Levy and Mike Kazimer pitted 2 of the best new light trail bikes against each other on our home trails in Squamish.
While both bikes are incredible, there can only be one winner. See more details and a response from the brand that "lost" here: pinkbike.link/tallboyvsfuel
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Just to pile on, thank you for picking a winner. And explaining why, and for making the reasons reasonable and not some nonsense. I also appreciate you not making the never ending reviewer mistake and trying to ride the closest thing to throwing the bike off a cliff and then claiming the bike "punches above it's weight" 50 times. Appropriate trails, appropriate bikes, appropriate riding ... reasonable conclusion. Nice.
I’m not first, I’m not last, but when pinkbike posts, I click fast
Love my EX for the bang for your buck experience it gives.
One of the best reviews and comparison I've ever seen. This how to present a video. Clear on specs and differences, including riding, direct to the point and factual. Super video!!
Kazimer and Levy make THE BEST content. I can watch these guys for hours. Whenever a new video comes out I end up rewatching the old vids as well. Kazimer is the authority when it comes to understanding speed on a trail bike and Levy brings a whole different perspective. The only thing That can make this better is to have even more
Content!
Great video Mikes! I love when a decision is actually made in a head-to-head, and reasons supporting that decision. Cant wait for the next shootout
The TB is a great bike, I have the s build and couldn’t be happier. I demo’d the fuel ex and really liked it as well. For me, the TB was perfect, just feels right!! Both are great bikes, no bad choice.
Love seeing the Mike's ride one of my all time favorite trails in Squamish.
As others have said rear shcok tune on the Trek is key to getting the right mid stroke and ramp up at least it was for me on my older Remedy Fox Float which I had Push'd. The RS Ultimate on my current Remedy was bang on right out of the box. Contemplating swapping out to a Fuel Ex 9.8 but sure wish they had gone 140mm and Float X for 2022...
So, would it be worth tweaking the shock on the FUEL EX, and then do a re-test?
They sure like to push each other buttons but they explain exactly why they do it and how they feel. Great reviews always.
lol i can hear the camera dude breathing😂😂sick vid btw
That was a great segment of your review, was to promote the bike that neither of you chose. Top notch review and vid.
Owned a couple remedys and slash, treks from the factory lack the progressive ramp that other bikes do, abp keeps you super low in stroke and for many people it ends up feeling numb. But if you tune the shock right and add a bunch of volume spacers, they come alive and I'd take it over a dw or Vpp platform anyday since the active braking and simplicity of the linkage is so great. But I get why a lot of people dont like them, just tune em!
Agree with you on this, especially if you're taller and/or a heavier rider - Trek's settings are weak and skewed. Found this with my Fuel EX7, when I added spacers to the stock Fox shock it made a huge difference, because I was bottoming it out with regularity before that. Comparing it after the adjustments with the Tallboy I prefer my Fuel, more comfortable and lively, especially on long days of riding. Same proved true when I upgraded to a Pike and a Deluxe shock, I had to do more spacers in the rear than what Trek specs for the latter.
Chris Pierdominici How much do you weigh and how tall are you? where do you ride trails? Thank you
The alternating camera angles during discussion is quite well done
My conclusion is that Santa Cruz makes bikes for professional reviewers, while Trek makes bikes for everybody else who will gladly trade a bit of performance for forgiveness, comfort and a significantly lower cost. That's not to dog on the Tallboy, it's a great bike. But Trek knows their market.
I think a huge chunk of those suspension complaints with the trek could have been solved with some volume spacers.
you dont need to be a professional reviewer to realize that the VPP is so much better than Trek's suspension system
Trek makes bikes for people that don't know how to use google and buy the first bike their LBC sales person recommends
@@MidWestMTB And yet Google evidently couldn't help you dispute the points I made.
@@plmn93 hahaha I don't really care about your opinion man, I'm sorry
Good video great info 👍
I’ve been riding the older Specialized Epic for several years and it hurts, just tired of being beaten up. Doing a lot of watching reviews of bikes still working my way through them. I’m an older rider and do some racing in the local series for me racing is just going as fast as I can. Definitely looking for a bike that will not beat me up anymore but has some quickness to it so I can stay with my riding buddies. According to the reviews here the Trek might be more comfortable?
Good comparison 👍
Demoed Tallboy today at AMBC Fall Festival @ Baker Creek .You guys nailed your review it was efficient and capable. Buying one soon! 😉
Have the new fuel ex since a week; love it! Prefer the looks and the possibility of setting it up as 150/130with the fox36. The remedy 29 is back (and updated).
After 6 seasons on a 650b and 29er Remedy, I am amazed by the new Fuel ex. There may be better bikes out there, but this one is more than good enough for me.
how does it ride with a 150mm fork?
SLACKER!!! 👨🏾🏫 Word of the day🔤
Hi, congrats f all your videos guys! I’m f Peru and I’m looking f the best all around bike, including flat terrain in the city (uphill and downhill) . Please let me know which is the best basic option (aluminium) between the trek fuel ex, remedy or Santa Cruz tall boy, Hightower or 5010, which I know use the 27.5 wheels. Thank you so much and hope you all can shoot a video someday in Peru, welcome anytime ! 🤙
You can adjust the mino link on the Fuel to make it slacker so curious if you ran it on the low or high as that will change how it feels quite a bit. I have the 2021 fuel ex 8 XT and run it in the high position and its been great.
Andrew B. this bike is actually amazing how it rides hey, I got the FEX 7 2021 solid bike and very comfortable to ride, havent touch the mino link yet I kept it at low since I got it, it climbs fire road with ease and just plow everything on its path on down hill. Didnt regret getting this bike... Its actually do it all bike!
I’ll still take my Fuel. I race XC and I’m smashing all of my PRs from when I was on a hardtail. Climbs like a beast. Fork is gold when a MRP ramp control cartridge and remote lockout are added. Shreds hard. Mullet brakes with 4 piston rear and 2 piston front
which fox fork do you have that you put the mrp on?
Muchas gracias!
Less oil in the shock so it's more consistent? How TF do you reckon?
Tallboy vs Occam? The 2020 Occam also ticks a lot of boxes...
Need more of these videos! would be good to see a yeti SB150 vs Specialised Enduro??
Wonder how the Aluminum Tallboy stacks up? Not many people can afford a 3K frame or 8K build. If I felt the only thing I'd lose was a pound or so, I'd buy an aluminum Tallboy pretty soon.
That's what I did, happy so far.
Just ordered a XL CC Tallboy 4 frame. I have a 140mm FOX 44mm offset fork. I can reduce to 130mm myself just wondered if running it as is would be ok?
Liked the trek better when demoing but the fuel also rides way better with the mino link in high position, and these guys had it in low. Feels very similar to tall boy when in high position imo. The lack of dropper post on the more affordable tallboy versions was the biggest thing for me. Both amazing bikes!
How does the Fuel stack up against the new Trance 29? I am pretty loyal to my shop, and those are my options.
This was very helpful for my decision on my next purchase. Please keep doing these reviews/ shoot-outs!
Funny because I remember when the knock block came out, Trek staff made comments about the SWOT box and how it compromised downtube stiffness
Top review ,and exactly what I expected.
Any future long review for the new nukeproof reactor 290 RS.
Yep, one just arrived in for testing last week.
Awesome, thank you 👍
Wish you would mention things like bike / frame warranty too.. but good compare otherwise. Happy riding to ya'
thanks!
Can you review the Marin Mountvision Vs the Marin Wolfridge
Great review, and we all know SC leaves some wiggle room in there for a longer fork. I have the Ibis Ripley LS because SC didn't offer a bike w/ more than 110 less than 140 at the time, and I run that 140/120, so I feel confident that SC would allow a 140 on that bike!
Josh K A friend of mine run his tallboy with a 170mm Fox 36 fork. He paired it with a Fox X2 coil rear shock. Damn does he float over the trails
@@GTChucker86 I'm not sure how that would work....his front end must be really high and probably makes it slow on anything but downhill....and I'm pretty sure that is outside what Santa Cruz deems acceptable and probably wouldn't warranty the frame if something failed. On top of that, putting an X2 wouldn't improve the suspension very much because you're not actually increasing the travel.
Josh K Dont know with him but he seems to like it so far.
Edit: My mistake his bike isnt a Tallboy at all, its a Megatower. Whoops
Plz review the new Kona process 134
Geometry and the linkage are more important to how a bike feels and performs than pure length of travel.
Just bought a Tallboy, can't wait to hit the AZ trails
Holy shit when did your videos get so good
How does it descend compared to sb130
Where was this filmed? I'm so used to seeing Sedona. What trail is this?
I need a new version if this video with the new Tallboy vs the new Top Fuel!
In the market for a new light trail bike and can’t decide between the two!
Am I the only person who has recognized that they made a second fault @2:03. The former version has had (officially) 130mm Travel in the back too, not 120mm. A German MTB mag measured 143mm of travel in the back.
Where do i get that pinkbike jersey that Kazimer’s wearing?
The Fuel EX 9.8 comes with carbon bars and carbon wheels for around $5500. How much was the Tallboy you tested with carbon bars and wheels?
"So who's gonna pick trek?" Lmao
Probably about 80% really? They are simply sold in more places, heaps cheaper than the santa cruz, faster warranty etc...
As an older rider probably me. Comfort is more important than it was 25 years ago and also since I broke a few vertebra. Speed means nothing to me, never has. The truth is bikes today are awesome.
Me, because as they mention the Fuel is more forgiving. Crashes suck. I'm not racing anybody. The Fuel is still a lot of fun, widely available (with service), and cheaper when comparably equipped. The older you get, the more you realize that some things matter more to your own ownership experience than what a couple of professional riders nitpick. As they said, both are great bikes.
Me
All day baby!!!!
Why does it look like the rear axle spacer is missing in the video? Is it just me?
Im in the market for a new bike im debating between the tallboy and trek fuel ex 8, i see the fuel ex has better components on the drive traing for the same price and im talking about the alloy edition on both bikes if it was you what would you choose based on your professional experience, please advise
The SC is poor value and they have had problems with their alloy frames being soft and bending.
I'm curious to ask: With regard to the Tallboy and other SC bikes, what's your opinion on the linkage design in terms of reliability? Thanks
VPP is simply the best linkage system.
its easy to clean, have a greaser to lubrification whithout dismount the linkage, and the bearings are easy to find.
Thank you for actually having an opinion!
Question guys, would you take the Tallboy over something like say, gg trail pistols even a smash?
I didnt completely catch what was said about the shimano xt brakes? Did you guys have a different recommendation? I have sram guide r's. The front is pretty good but the rear seems to need a bleed every now and then but its always almost hitting my middle finger before it engages hard. Do you recommend getting the higher spec'ed shimano's?
Our full review of the new Shimano XT brakes is here: www.pinkbike.com/news/review-shimanos-all-new-xt-4-piston-brake.html
Shimano for life. It may take you a bit of time to get used to but once you do your love them
Don’t listen to these guys😂 Shimano XTs are great and stop why better than any sram brake. If you’re looking for an upgrade go full XT
Lol they really skipped over it fast hey? I have had issues with my rear shimano Xt8000s and its like shimano pay the dealers to say theres nothing wrong with them, then you search the forums and find thousands complaining about changing bite points.....
i got the 2019 9.9 replaced the fork putted in an Öhlins 160 in front..and that made it super awesome..now..the 2020 Trek have done the kinda same...can i get an amen :DD
lol it probably climbs like a pig now smh
Nice vídeo...
Would you pick either of them over the new Ibis Ripley ?
You hush your turnip hole!... JK..I would personally take the Ibis or Yeti SB 130 or Evil Offering though a little bit different rigs. Don't get me wrong i'd take either bike and be happy, but that's if i'm dropping my own coin. So there is my unsolicited shitty .02 worth.
I had the choice and picked the fuel ex. No regrets so far.
waiting for mine to arrive
I got to stick with the Trek Fuel EX
Bought one today. 👍🏽👍🏽👍🏽
Me, too, am a Trek fan.
👏👏
Iove it. Call it like it is
ive been waiting for a trail samosa.. soft tacos are so last year :)))
what's funny is I own a fuel and have been trying to explain to my friends that I feel like I cant climb as comfortably on my fuel but could never explain what I feel. You guys managed to put what I have been trying to say into words hahah. I do love my fuel but I do notice that it seems substantially different to climb with vs other bikes that I have demoed
Neat review lads 👍
Did you guys reach out to Shimano about the 'doesn't do anything' free stroke adjuster? Wonder what their say on the matter is, been following PB for awhile now and this thing keeps getting repeated. Is there any basis to it or is it just PB?
I have run Shimano brakes for years (although recently switched to Magura after the same moving-bite-point frustrations) and can definitely confirm that the free stroke adjuster doesn't seem to do jack.
th-cam.com/video/D0uSTtDWbI8/w-d-xo.html
Nice
Fuel ex with the low mino link and the reverse angle spaces is as slack as you need
Guys, overall good job guys! you did a better review than people twice your age. Largely due to the fact you are not afraid to really compare one bike to the other one. Having said that, let me give you one spot where you drop the ball and can do better next time. 1)at 6:27 you said: "of course we always have to say nether bike is bad", stop right there, that erases your whole review. You are telling the audience that you will never really tell us the real story because 'someone' is not letting you. (not to lose some sponsorship maybe). Even if that is true, its a stupid thing to say, you lose your audience right there. So, don't do that anymore, tell us what you found out honestly and end it there.
More of these videos, please!
is the fuel EX a cross country bike or a enduro bike
What do you think about the fuel ex compared to the hightower?
Yea Levy! Nice review
Bikes just seem to be getting bigger. Kinda like cars. There was a time when an Accord was a compact and a Civic a sub compact but the market drove them to offer more room until the point when each model essentially changed class, this seems to be whats happening with mtbsIt doesn't seem that long ago when a typical bike had a 32mm stanchion and now a 34 is treated like light duty where you gotta go up if you want REAL rides. I sometimes wonder if this chase towards gravity oriented trail bikes is more marketing than realistic and practical rides for the vast majority of mountain bikers.
Indeed, with these modern barges cornering has become a lost art.
@@digbysirchickentf2315 True. Its ironic because there was a time when the big mtb publications would call the bikes with steeper head angles the more hardcore single track bikes typical of both East coast and PNW brands where as the big bike companies at the time were more fire road oriented California style with what were considered conservative slacker angles.
With geometry there is no "best" but better for certain types of trail and riding.There is always a trade off. I wonder if bikes are swaying a bit too far towards the big drop, high speed stuff that gets lots of hype because its visually exciting to watch vs more realistic trail riding that many people actually ride.
schlooonginator I agree to some degree. I’ve been riding since 1993. I started riding on the East Coast and now live in the West. I personally wouldn’t want to go back to head angles steeper than 68 degrees, even for East Coast XC and woods riding. Going up to 32mm stanchions was a noticeable difference, as was going to a thru axle and ditching the quick release. Another noticeable difference was going to 34mm stanchions and 1.5 tapered headsets, which happened simultaneously on the bike that I recently bought. Can’t believe we rode the stuff we used to ride with such flexy, imprecise front ends. As far as travel is concerned, natural trails have not changed, and the most I’ve seen be useful without lugging extra bulk has been between 120-130mm-exactly where trail bikes seem to have settled.
Well mostly true. I had that attitude too. But I have to admit that the 32 mm fork on my Fuel is floppy as hell, so much so that my front rotor gets uneven buildup and starts to pulse. These new geometries seem to require stouter components. But that's OK, I'm having a hell of a lot more fun than I used to on my old XC bikes and I'm crashing a lot less.
Yeah🤘🤘👍👍
Kind of putting a lot of thought into travel numbers, geometry, and suspension design lately... On the Trek, there's a very unusual 55mm stroke for a 130mm travel bike. For example, the 55mm stroke is commonly found on the Ibis Ripmo which now has 147mm of travel and it's also found on the Fezarri La Sal Peak which has 150mm of rear-wheel travel. ( This should be a significant topic when reviewing a bike moving forward as it's a big factor to how a bike truly moves through it's linkage design. )
As a rider, it's tough to find this out without having ridden many different bikes. At the same time, it's a great example of how a review of a bike's linkage, stroke, and sag might better suite a rider's expectations. What is the BB height at standard Sag? What is the BB height at 50% sag? Those two measurements might better help a rider understand how the bike behaves when climbing steep trails or how the bike changes geometry in very technical terrain. Essentially, what is the actual climbing seattube/headdtube angles vs a balanced descending / flat-ground geometry table? We're missing that information in terms of what the industry shows us on the charts. It's possibly one of the most troubling aspect of actually riding a bike as each linkage design can drastically alter it's riding characteristics based on changing terrain.
A great example is the 2020 Giant Reign. It has a 60mm stroke rear shock w/ 146mm of Maestro travel. It's super playful and loves to hop around. It loves flat ground and going downhill! Give it some tough-technical terrain to climb and guess what? It gives up it's line. Maestro sort of acts like the bottom bracket is hanging in free-air. It creates a near perfect rear axle path, but it leaves the bottom bracket exposed to creating significantly altered geometry changes. Again, respectfully, it's absolutely amazing on flat terrain and descents; it's incredibly awesome to be honest! But again, when the bike climbs tough-technical terrain the seattube angle shifts to being significantly slacker and the headtube angle also becomes increasingly slacker. It's probably close to a 63.5 headtube angle from stock 65 degrees and the seattube angle starts out at 76.8 but probably gets closer to 75 degrees. So, in the real-world of tough climbs, it's a totally different bike. It's essentially cresting from an Enduro bike to a downhill sled; something the rider is constantly deciphering in steep technical climbs... In the case of Maestro, the climbing switch helps to preserve the geometry, which is absolutely needed on very tough technical climbs.
Long story short, the Santa Cruz is probably a near perfectly balanced bike with it's BB height, linkage design, and real-world headtube/seattube angles. The axle path may not be perfect, but the balance of the bottom bracket in relationship to real-world moving seattube and headtube angles is possibly near perfect: or extremely intuitive in it's manners. From a rider's standpoint, who's looking at this video but has never ridden the Fuel EX, I'd assume the Trek seems disproportionate right from the start with it's 55mm stroke and 140mm travel fork ( seemingly drastically different sag starting points). Frankly, most bikes with a 55mm stroke seem to be paired with a near 160mm fork.
This is something that would be great to address both as reviews go but also as far as how a bike company lists their bike's geometry charts too. From a rider's standpoint, the Santa Cruz Tallboy easily goes to show that a properly balanced 42.5mm stroke rear shock can easily outperform a 55mm stroke shock. Pretty sure Santa Cruz has a great thing going with it's real-world geometry chart! They've had a great thing going for quite some time too. Got to appreciate that as a rider, right? It's intuitive. It's productive. It's eventually predictable. Those are great values to have as a rider.
Anyway, just my thoughts here as it seems like geometry numbers are better than ever. But, there's still quite a bit of un-balanced geometry on modern bikes when it comes to real-world geometry numbers. I think we need to know how the geometry moves in the real-world: both as riders and as owners. As far as the industry goes, let's help each other out with that kind of information please. And thank you!
Compare 2021 Tallboy to 2021 Trance X 2 please!
I love my Tallboy 18!🤘
same here!
My 2019 tallboy got stolen last week😭
Ironically got a fuel ex 9.8 2 days ago though
@@canadianbacon5474 ☹️
@@canadianbacon5474 how you like your Trek?
I just purchased a Tallboy, I just wish had your skill to feel the true capabilities the can offer.
Which size of Maxxis tires are on trek on this video??
they are Bontrager Xr4 team issue
@@LeadMunitions hi, the question was about the Maxxis on this video. I own the Fuel EX 9.8 and came with the Bontrager XR4, I see on video the are Minion. How wide are this Minion 2.3.2.4 or 2.6??
maybe you can review the slash vs highball next
I ride the Trek Fuel 9.9 M/L as it is a perfect fit. I am between sizes on Specialized, Niner, & Santa Cruz
Have the Fuel EX 9.8XT in a M/L size and love this bike, it fits my anatomy well.
And Ripley vs Tallboy?
Gransport1965 1000 likes
Thank you so much for doing this review ! I could not agree with you all more about bikes being similar in geo but ride / feel completely different .If geo was all there was to making a bike then they would all ride the same ( which they don't obviously ).There are more choices when looking for a MTB then a motorcycle which can be good or bad depending on how you look at it . I tend to think having plenty of choices for any type of riding style is a good thing , not only for the consumer but the bike companies as well ..
The reason I didn’t buy a Fuel EX was the super active unsupportive suspension. Super comfy sitting and spinning, but blew through travel on small drops and had nothing to push against when I wanted to. I feel like you guys had similar thoughts, so I’m glad I wasn’t imagining it. Ended up with a new Ripley and couldn’t be happier
Interesting because I dont feel that way at all about my Remedy and every reviewer comments on how poppy and well supported it is. Just spent a day at coast gravity and its so easy to get airborn on the Remedy and doesnt bottom out easily...Must be the shock tune and leverage ratio on the new Fuel is just to linear??
I had the same problem with my 2016 Fuel EX7, which I attributed two factors - the crappy Fox shock and Trek's annoying proclivity for suspension settings for lighter riders. Fixed the issues with bottoming out the shock by adding more air and spacers, and ultimately dumped it for a Monarch RT3 that is light years better.
Are you on Rupert in Squamish I love that trail
Picking a winner is cool, but important to remember that (IMO) both bikes are “top level”. You not comparing a slug with a greyhound. More like first and second place in an Olympic event.
Please show the Kona 134 some love, looks great on paper. No one is really taking about it...
You are right on all the bike's out now are pretty killer!!!
We did a First Ride on it not too long ago: www.pinkbike.com/news/first-ride-the-2020-kona-process-134-cr-gets-a-full-carbon-frame-and-29-wheels.html
Apparently having a Fox 36 and a 4-piston XT is not a good thing now...
That effing Re:Active shock is the worst. Replace it before you bring any Trek home with such crappy shock.
I upgraded almost everything on my 17 FEX and it still didn't feel awesome. I scrapped the ReAktiv for a DPX2 and holy crap is the bike amazing!
@@jcarls44 told ya. That Reaktiv is a piss poor marketing snake oil... 😂
Im on my marlin 5, like what are you even talking about!
I hope the latest Fuel Ex won't have issues like the two 2014 Fuel EX bike I had or even newer had.
my 2014 I am bending hanger regularly without impacts, my latest ride was short, about 40 min with urban mtb, but even lighter riding I bend it.
and bearings misaligned in the back of the rocker link, I hope this is solved, but I don't know why they went for single shear pivots on Fuel EX but went for Dual Shear pivots on the Top Fuel.
But hanger issue probably won't be and issue at least not for me I think on the newer bikes they look much stiffer.
Did it collect gravel at the ABP? the 2014 model did, the flex probably caused a 3mm rock to get stuck, it was an unpleasant scraping sound.
I see the BB area, down tube, whole rear linkage is beefier.
But I am not fan of the cable routing, So far the best cable routing I've seen is on Nicolai bikes, external and no zipties needed.
mate the 2021 Fuel ex. are now totally different machine from 2014.
@@Baksan_Dog1988 I know. but not tried one, so can't speak for specific model, size on current models but if anyone has experience with it pls share. but I won't go for Trek anyway.
@@mtbboy1993 Its not even comparable
Wonder how these stack up against the Specialized Stumpjumper?
Well its a win for Santa Cruz!
Easy on the coffee
Why not tallboy vs top fuel, and fuel ex vs hightower? More similar suspension settings.
jonadad gorrostieta and less similar geometry. :)
Coz Top Fuel compares with Blur
I'm a simple man. I see Pinkbike, I click
Tallboy is around 25% more expensive than the Fuel EX... 😞
RENE La Rue yeah all Santa Cruz prices are extortionate
But then again it is 25% more bike.
Luckily it’s also at least 25 per cent better🗿
Rene H. La Rue its cuz santa cruz is a premium brand
Bike Radar did a review where they found the cost of the parts was way less than what SC was charging
I sold my Norco Optic 2020. PB's trail bike of the year for 2020. I got tired of the pedal bobbing. It cant climb roots and rocks all that well. Bike is too slack for its range. Makes you want to hit those enduro tracks but then you feel your teeth rattle inside your skull. Plus it's heavy for a carbon bike. I baught the 2021 fuel ex8 and i'm pleasantly surprised. I like it more overall than the Optic. My advice is go for what will make your riding more enjoyable for your local trails and for your riding style. Its all so subjective. They are all good bikes but your personnal preferences are unique. Dont fall for the most voted up , prettier and cooler bike. Your friends will think you're cool but your rides will leave you with wanting better.
Just get the slash and call it a day 🤙🏼
SC all the way!
wait hold up. did you guys really just say an in-line shock is gonna stay more consistent than a piggyback shock? literally the whole reason of piggyback shocks is to keep the shock cooler over long descents, increasing consistency. i'm gonna assume you just misspoke because that could be very misleading for people without tons of knowledge on bikes