LANDMARK CULT? 3 Reasons I Stopped Volunteering at Landmark Assist Program
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 พ.ค. 2024
- Although I'm a huge fan of the actual Landmark Forum and courses, the Assist program really gives me an off vibe.
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I took their class about 15 years ago, and after the weekend was over and I had a few days to think, I realized how utterly abusive and manipulative it was. Anyone who questions the leader is humiliated and the leader uses group dynamics to break the questioner down until they back off. Our arrogant leader was comparing himself to Ghandi and MLK. I demanded my money back and they refunded it immediately. I'm sure they know to just give the money back and not have someone raise a stink. People, do your research about Landmark Forum and its cult like actions before you get involved. If you need a mental boost for almost nothing, read "The Magic of Thinking Big" by David Schwartz.
You can think that people were humiliated, I don’t I don’t feel humiliated I don’t feel like anyone’s humiliated if I wanna go up front end and share what I’m dealing with with the rest of the room that’s my prerogative so if someone doesn’t want to share anything you don’t have to share anything
I attended the Landmark Forum as part of training for my involvement as a Distributor for a Company out of California. Weirdly, I was coerced into doing it, paying for the training and they did try to recruit me to assist. I felt that the forum was really strange, like they may have been completely mind-fucking people. The only benefit to me, was learning how “not to get mind-fucked” ever and it reminded me of the sick way my dad tried to manipulate me when I was young. It reminds me of NXIUM.
Distributor for what? MLM products? Vemma?
I apologize and except responsibility that you felt coerced into doing it, I get how companies could could fall into that? I don’t agree with it
I’ll ask you to consider why he thought it was weird it is because your company wanted you to do it and that’s not like a common thing that most companies do so it’s very different and you know it’s not like totally normalize to talk about what we’re dealing with deep inside one more thought to like suck it up and get to work and you know put on a smile on these kind of things
I’d also ask you to consider what you did get out of it the distinctions from the syllabus or ideas and concepts that you with every day you don’t have to be reminded that there’s a sea of opinions out there, you can see through the sea of opinions
Landmark is a rackett that keeps finding character flaws in everyone in order to guilt trip everyone to keep comming
i know it's kinda off topic but do anybody know a good website to watch new movies online ?
@@bobbydylan6792 cuevana3, your welcome
Amen - This is the best description!!
Omg yess
@@bobbydylan6792 lol wtf
Me at the Landmark Forum
*Raises Hand*: "Uhh I have a question"
Forum leader: "There will be no questions"
First red flag, should have walked out at that very moment
Sounds like a yikes, fortunately mine was much better at the Forum
A friend got mixed up with them and spent a lot of money on them, plus he became sort of an evangelist for them, trying to get all of his friends involved. We resisted, except one mutual friend did go to the introductory session. He ended up in the private room afterward being pressured to pay for the first set of courses. He left, did not pay. My friend was in for about three months (2008) and then left, never to talk about it again. But during that active period, it was like Scientology had taken over his mind. He just droned on and on about it, always bugging the rest of us.
I have had my experience with cults or "enlightenment" organizations like Landmark. I have had friends that were Moonies or belonged to Scientology. Also did some workshops in an organization called "Summit" which is identical to Landmark.
If there is a hierarchy in an enlightenment organization, then it is dangerous because in a hierarchy, you accept the idea that someone above you knows more than you do. Then they gaslight you. You do not need another person to tell you what is best for you. Trust the intuitive voice within yourself. Just align with your higher self through meditation or positive thoughts. It is about raising your vibration and feeling wonderful. Then the real magic begins!. Pompous, lofty, and manipulative words mean nothing. Their business model gets in the way. Focus instead of aligning with the source within yourself. You are the authority for yourself.
Agreed
True that!
The existence of a hierarchy is no smoking gun. Human beings, as well as every other member of the animal kingdom, has always naturally organized their groups into hierarchies. Someone always emerges as a leader, etc. Can you name a single company that doesn't have one?
Your thoughts on enlightenment sounds cultish. 😂🎉
@@joeldio2 How does believing in the intuitive voice inside yourself and that you are the authority for yourself sound cultish? A cult is quite the opposite. In a cult, you give your intuition and power away to others higher on the power hierarchy. What you think doesn't count in a cult. You only follow orders.
If you say anything against LM they say "You are not being Authentic, You have rackets , whats your act? , "
They do that a lot lol
Lol... you're right. Brings back memories
Just don't make it mean anything lol
Chethan Karanth 😂😂so true !! I did the curriculum for living - the 4 parts - and lived my life - simple -no assisting, just live it .. hats off to those that do, but I have a life and designed it outside of landmark
Hey Bodhi I think that for a lot of people, Landmark replaces their life. ITs good that you actually went and lived after the courses lol, something I see some people miss
I took the first course of Landmark over 20 years ago recommended by a good friend. I took it and walked away thinking this is BS. Landmark is my friend's life. We have pretty much gone our own ways.
Im sad you guys split over landmark, but yea its not for everyone. I think a problem people have at Landmark is they can develop an "Us vs Them" mentality
I have two close friends that have done the program. I would like to think that I am an open minded individual but we all have elements of our personality that could need refreshing. The program helped my friends for what they wanted(I guess). An observation that I have had with my interaction with my friends, since their involvement, is that in one form or another our present conversations have always returned to the vernacular and language of the forum terminology. One friend has remained open minded but remains in only the forum mindset about everything in life. A one size fits all. I find that odd. The other friend straight out tries to sell me on the program and definitely has an us vs them mentality. This was a complete turn off.
@@taddavis5347 I've left a lengthy comment on this video which will answer a lot of your questions about your friends. If there is anything further you want answered feel free to ask.
I assisted for a couple of years at EST, so I will assume that it is similar to Landmark. If people really want to communicate, they need a common acceptance of what words mean; so I find a distinct difference between 'assist' and 'volunteer'. Assist is more focused on those you are assisting, and volunteer is more focused on oneself.
I assisted in order to make a contribution and ended up learning so much more than I ever gave. I learned to be committed to the organization's ideals that I was assisting for. I learned that there is no satisfaction to be found at a job unless I brought it with me. I learned how to call people on the phones; and although I was not 'selling' a product, I learned how to sell. I learned that in order to do a job correctly, one had to do it 100%. For instance, metaphorically, do not just vacuum on top of a rug; lift the rug and vacuum under it too. And mostly, I learned to leave my ego at home and to do what was necessary to get the job done. It is my opinion that everything I learned while assisting at est contributed to me becoming fabulously wealthy and generous.
Yes. This!
And here I am three years later, someone introduced this to me today and it's funny how they all thought I was going to spend over $700 on this....I'm not the one. I have enough friends in my life to be empowered and encouraged, and their friendships are actually free. Yep I did think too, Scientology.
The actual program itself is really good, I still recommend Landmark Forum to everyone. I just didnt like the assisting program
Richie Park but at $700? There has to be another way.
At ~750 a person, why the hell do they have volunteers?
Definitely helps their bottom line lol
The purpose of the Assisting program is for people to practice the distinctions they acquired in the experience of the Landmark program. This practice is like any martial arts, where the art of being the source of your own being is realized in an environment of peers who have similar experience. It helps an individual advance his experience of 'Being' in a safe environment whilst at the same time realizing that being of service to others is in fact a service to self and the realization of service being a bigger part of being human beyond looking after one's own needs.
Gerhard Kutt That's correct. You get a chance to apply what you've learned in the course and be actively coached while doing so.
Gerhard Kutt Come on, guys. I didn't ask you to tell me what they tell you.
Based on what you're saying, I'd expect the volunteering to be done outside of Landmark events, after you've learned what you've learned. But it appears that they actually use volunteers in place of paid workers to do required tasks for them. So whether it has secondary benefits or not, you're being fed a line.
I do Vipassana meditation. There are a ton of for-profit meditation retreats that use the same argument to get people to work for them at their retreats: it's called 'karma work.' I get it, but it's not the primary reason people are asked to work for free. The retreats I attend are 100% free room and board, covered by donations of people that previously attended. Servers and managers are volunteers. This makes a lot more sense and is easier to justify as doing to help oneself as well as others.
Gerhard Kutt I still don’t understand why anyone would “assist” for a for profit corporation.
Set up a room for them. Sniffed it out as a cult the moment I met the organisers. Fawning over the lead speaker like a diety. Over the top affection and language, making them out to be perfect physically and emotionally, and literally anything said was truth. (I heard all this literal language in small talk between organisers before the leader arrived while I was working on their setup.) Looked them up when I got home and was not at all surprised to find out many people spotted their cult-like system.
Somethings about it definitely irk me as well
When they told you about Werner his last name was Earnhardt. Werner broke away from Scientology and started Landmark, originally called EST
Interesting. They have some similar philosophies for sure. Again the courses are fantastic, but the Assist program is really weird.
Richie Park I did the Forum and an advanced course and found at least half the content to be people talking about how wonderful the course was for them followed by pitches to buy more Landmark. But the harassing and deceptive phone calls to come down to the Landmark offices and work for free was the final straw.🤢
its Werner Erhardt
ah yes, Wormer Earhard. Thank you for reminding me
Erhart and he was never part of Scientology. Get your facts right. Hubbard was jealous of Werner and sued him or tried to.
Werner was not the founder of Landmark - he created EST and members of EST bought Werner out to create Landmark.
You assisted twice - so you had a point of view - great - sorry you did not get value out of the assisting program that others have. I am no longer part of LM either by the way.
I had a traumatic experience assisting too. They kept saying this is your seminar. I'm like no it's not. I didn't sign up to collect money ect. Every week they kept adding on a new responsibility. I'm like what am I, free slave labor. One asked me to clean the bathroom. I'm like I don't do bathrooms. I'm not the janitor. He's like it's your seminar. I'm like the heck it is. I paid for the seminar, not to be a janitor. All this happened, b/c I went to support a "friend" who was leading a class. She promised me all I had to do was sit in the back. Yeah well that never happened. Then I'm getting "critiqued" on my assisting performance and compared to others. Dude it's alot of cognitive dissonance going on there. As well as gaslighting. Some of the classes themselves are good. But it also attracts narcissists, people that like to control and manipulate others. See the thing with me is. You can't control me with the integrity card. As I could care less, if you think I'm out of "integrity". Then the last seminar I went to, they were teaching us how to invite people. How to get around their No. People who decline your invitation. I'm like hummm, so your teaching us how to manipulate people. What drove me nuts. Is how they interrupt the lesson, for a "commercial break" to get us to invite people. That got on my last nerve. I'm like dude. I get it, but can we get back to the class I paid for. Anyway, I'm ranting. In short, seminar is ok. Assisting is for the birds.
Thanks for your input! Sorry to hear your experience was poor
D W agreed; the forum itself is great... after that; get out and live your life for a year or so, finish off the last 3 parts and design and live the rest of your life the way YOU want to, not the way they want you to !
D W that sounds intense for a seminar, if you paid then you should have been a participant not assisting. Also bathroom cleaning would never be expected where I have assisted, the closest it came was making sure there was enough dunny rolls at the facility when the forum was on.
I never did the Landmark programs and I am very proud to say this but have done a lot of research about them, including speaking to a counselor who had many clients harmed by Landmark and the other who was a social worker who had been deeply involved with them. What I learned is those that get something out of Landmark that's positive only spend a short time (eg just do the forum). People also make the mistake that Landmark must have all the answers to their problems. Also the whole process within Landmark is not noticed by many people until later. As you discovered they are very good at using mind games to keep people in their to spend money and get other people, whole families in there, potentially creating family break ups as well. You are an intelligent individual, take the positives from them and never go back.
I've just left a lengthy comment on this video I think you'll enjoy.
If you havent done it I can't take your story in
Look up the signs of a cult. Special jargon and terms for things that are unique to their group is one sign. Another are classes to take which never seem to end. The first ones are not as expensive. Then they can cost into the thousands. Disciplined practices which promise spiritual growth, personal success, and happiness and friends are others. Be very careful. Landmark is a high pressure cult which springs from Scientology. Good video, thanks for sharing your specific experiences and insights which are right on.
I know people that I didn't see after 10 years... participated for more than a decade and they were doing the same bullshit they were 10 years before, trying to have a "breakthrough in money" for the 27th time. The Curriculum for Living is Excellent. But overall I think everyone should get away for years after their participation. They keep people around via the volunteer program... keep people sharing and recruiting.
I have to agree that's one thing I dislike. They really need to give you space to actually use this stuff in the real world, instead of coming back over and over to have "breakthroughs."
Actually, it springs from Est. Google it. It is like Buddhism on steroids.
Chamomile Tea it gets cheaper as you go. The special jargon is to have people be empowered rather than disempowered;
e.g. tell yourself you are a volunteer and it has you be at the effect of it/ be passive in life where as assisting is more empowering/ you are in charge.
I dunno if that’s the best example but that’s how it is with all the ‘jargon’.
I mean u hang out with a group of friends who may religiously be into gaming, partying, or working. It could all be seen as a cult. If u feel u are living a happy life and someone should try things ur way as oppose to how they are doing things and u preach it u could technically be seen as a cult leader. Spirituality is very important in life and if people can find a place to spiritually fit in good for them.
I have friends and family who have done Landmark all with mixed results. One of my friends actually helped out and led at Landmark meetings becoming a Life coach himself and developing his own course which used a lot of Landmark style teachings and techniques. I did his course. and It was amazing. Majority of my friends have had positive experiences, However there is a dark flipside. I have family members who have become so obsessed with landmark is that they cannot function if they haven't been using landmarks teachings. They are so reliant on it for survival. They blame themselves for all their problems and for not following Landmark correctly. Their whole lives have been consumed by landmark. My cousin and his wife lead meetings and assist etc. In all conversations they only speak to you in a Landmark kind of way and are constantly harassing anyone and everyone to do Landmark. Selling it like its some sort of Magic wand that will sort everyone out. It almost feels cult like in many ways. I don't see that it has done anything great for them personally, besides turn them into annoying sales people, a bit like those door to door Jehovah's witnesses with watchtower and awake magazines.
My issues with Landmark is that twice I dated men who were facilitators. After I made it very clear that our dates were about getting to know each other and not going to include or become a sexual experience, they both tried to manipulate me to be and do what they wanted and they did not respect my dating boundaries and tried to guilt me into having sex with them. I would call that preditorial behavior and using there guilt tripping tactics to change my authentic NO to ok well maybe and then making me wrong because I wouldn't just go for it, like THEY WANTED. I felt emotionally and spiritually GANG RAPED. I started hyperventilating and had to go lay down and felt like I was so drained I almost passed out, constantly trying to keep ahead of their constant "Landmarking" me that I now would rather be alone, than try to date again. It's very scarring.
These techniques, like any techniques, can be used for good or bad. Thanks for sharing, and all the best!
That seems to be an overreaction.
That being said, they were definitely trying to manipulate you. Maybe next time start with, " do you work with landmark?"
Were you an attendee at their seminars? How did you meet them?
My friend is training to be a leader and I can overhear their zoom conversations. They are about 3 to 4 hours long. They’re talking a lot, but not really saying anything....like going in circles. Then they are constantly asking him to recruit people for the seminar and he has to promise to get the number of people to attend that he says he can. They then go around the group and make them promise to get the number of people to attend that they say they can. This in some way shows they have “integrity.” I feel like they’re fucking with his head....he doesn’t seem like the fun loving, out going happy person he used to be. He’s kinda like a robot, with no zest for life. Makes me sad...
Do they get anything out of it, how many people they bring in to the classes?
Sounds like a scam.
Its a lil
I assisted in the forum once and they told me to clean the hall and from that point i stopped assisting.
I assisted for a bit in the finance department and found it surprisingly okay. (did budgets, looked at the money side of things, called people for invoices, filled out spreadsheets etc) I was reasonably cautious with the whole experience, and made sure to get a copy of the contract I signed stating the specific amount of time I was meant to assist there. I fully expected to deal with some pushy behaviour from staff telling me to do more Landmark courses and did experience that on three separate occasions. My supervisor was friendly and helpful. But after my 3 months I was outta there, I'd gotten everything out of the experience. Staying any longer would just be plain exploitation at that point. I think the experience a person has assisting at Landmark really heavily depends on what part of the operation they are assisting in. Doing customer calls and sitting in the forum definitely seem to be the worst places to assist, I feel sorry for those Landmark assistants who keep leaving me voicemail messages asking me to come back and do another Forum, and believe me they're still sending me messages and its been years.
Just say stop calling per the USA Telecommunications act. Because you can file suit if your request is denied.
With many modern-day cults, most people only experience the good (or seemingly good) aspects of it initially, and it’s not until you are observed to be sufficiently brainwashed that you are exploited. The problem, for most, is that the brainwashing is so powerful, it’s too late to get out without a LOT of work...for many that are in a high-control group for an extended period of time, they have lost touch with so many former connections, it can feel easier to stay in. Sounds like you never got really “into” it and maintained your ability to stay objective. That’s great! I just called them and told me there’s no way I’m doing any more courses and please don’t call me anymore. That worked for me.
@@Danielle-nz9tn They actually stopped calling me about 8 months ago, think they gave up on me since I never picked up the phone. :) As for the course, its been a couple of years and I still find some of the stuff I learnt there useful. As you said yourself, staying objective when you go into these kinds of things is great. I think as long as people take it with a grain of salt and don't get too involved you can get what you need out of it and leave safely.
I ended a new relationship with someone I began to care for after he invited me to one of these seminars. I clearly saw how invested $$$ he is and his loyalty to this machine.
I would encourage you to explore the actual program for yourself, don't be afraid of it and there are good gems there. I understand the mentaltiy you are describing, some people will take Landmark and become totally attached to the institution as opposed to the lessons and teachings.
@@RichiePark Fuck Landmark.
@@RichiePark Dude stop encouraging people to take a course that's going to psychologically damage them.
Omg TOTALLY AGREE WITH THIS. I was involved with landmark for a few years - left about 14 years ago. I was in the assist program, then became a course supervisor and introduction leader. The initial programs - the landmark Forum and advanced course- gave me some great insights - but then - as you say - I was subtly manipulated into assisting more and more until I found myself with no free time - all my time taken by course supervisor duties or leading or other stuff. My relationships with people not in landmark started to suffer. I eventually left - but it did a number on me for a long time - I felt like I had failed - that took a long time to shake. You are so on the money with the carrot and the stick thing. My advice to anyone considering landmark is - do the first two courses - but - have an exit strategy. Don't get sucked into assisting. It's a real gravity well. Thanks for your video ! Seeing this made me feel less crazy about my time assisting. :)
Mr. Park please look into the B.I.T.E. model. You hit so many marks of what makes a cult in just the first two minutes. Behavior control, thought control, coded language, on and on.
And it's funny how not a single religion acknowledge this about themselves.
Thanks for sharing. I recently went to a forum and I struggled with the manipulation and guilt tactics they used. I worked in sales and I felt like I was getting sold at many points
OMG, sooooo glad I found your video. I love that you're not BASHING Landmark completely & that's why I watched the whole thing. I used to def be one of the people who was certain it was a cult. It took me 3 times to finally complete all 3 days & believe I did benefit. My only mistake was probably signing up for the assist program. Which actually all i did was turn my namecard into the basket of people who wanted more info. they KEPT calling me, finally talked to someoene who CLEARLY was reading from a script & then i was supposed to go to the introduction first.
I didn't go to introduction, a lot of family issues have been dealing with recently. & now they won't stop txting and calling me from different numbers today someone new left a VM saying he really wants to "empower me" and requested me to call back tonight bc if they're not able to have me assisnt on the team it's going to cause literally an incredible breakdown LOL & he's really comitted to suport me in whatever i'm dealing with so that i can BE MY WORD & assist FULL time as i said i would"
this is way too much for me.i don't even want to do the advanced forum now but they already charged me $700....and i don't think i can get that back FML
If your money was paid by credit card you can ask your credit card company to reverse the charge. You should have 90 days to do this. Your credit card company should be ok doing this if you claim harassment by the merchant. You might also want to read the lengthy comment I've left about this video.
Yep, I took what I got out of their program but the Assisting Program is a joke. They can't justify their "tuition" costs against the free labor for their programs. I'm finally rebuilding my life after going "deep" into their "enterprise" and not looking back at all!!
My friend who got evangelical with landmark, stopped displaying empathy for others, I guess because he felt none for himself. It made him seem less human, like a robot.
And he would disregard his girlfriends feelings because they hadn't done the program, and harangue them to spend all their money on courses to make HIS life better.
This cult creates some fucked up ideas in people. It's sad.
FYI, the whole thing is mind control.
I can see some of that for sure
Yep!
Am sure that's what even teachers in school did with us early as kids....mind control but we did flourish with grades and went up to success.
The purpose of assisting is to assist. They are precise about language in clarifying the intention around being there. That can be considered helpful or whatever interpretation you want to come up with. The value of this assistance is to those you are assisting and there can be a lot of good things about that including benefits to the assistants too. You area adding so much story and meaning to the interactions. Having a clear commitment and intention in being there ("what do you want to get out of assisting?") - which they asked you about and you rejected - could make it a more worthwhile experience. The program is very carefully designed and deserving of a more rigorous effort. Or not. Your call of course.
Great video! Just got out of the Forum. It had some good info, but it was like 50% advertising for itself.
I discovered in one evening that Landmark coaching "cult" was not for me. Firstly, the "friend" who invited me told me that it was suppose to be a one on one coaching session (lied). It ended up being a meeting with a speaker and several other people telling us we would never accomplish our goals without them, over and over again. "if you haven't made your dreams come true by now, you will never be able to without Landmark," They pressured us to sign up for the first phase and kept talking for hours until we signed up. I was told that no one would be able to leave the 1st 12 hour orientation unless they allowed you, not too eat or piss and that the doors would be locked. I was really turned off by the pressure they put on us and other signs that told me...no!
my mom was in EST in the 80's. this is basically exactly what she described with being pressured into working for free. sad to learn they're still at it, hope you are doing better now.
Brilliantly put. It always bugged me that they wouldn’t just advertise or promote their seminars. You know, like how they do it in the real world.
It is interesting indeed
Glad you made it out! I used to work at cafe Gratitide and they always tried to get me to sign up. Landmark is tied to Scientology. All your friends that say it changed their life are deep in the vicious cycle of a financial emotional cult. Much strength... cutie.
Actually, Landmark has no relationship with Scientology. There are some similar concepts, the most obvious of which is by unpacking the baggage of your past, you are free to create a powerful, productive future. I was in involved with Landmark Education for about 3 years. There are great things about it, some not so great. I stopped assisting and attending programs and seminars because I felt that I had gotten the value I was seeking when I started there. Nobody tried to convince me to stay, or play any "mind games" on me to keep me participating.
Experiences are personal. Not everyone is going to walk away with a warm and fuzzy experience. But let's keep it honest and not spread untruths like they are part of Scientology, because that just is not the case.
That said, do I regret spending 3 years and a LOT of money doing their Curriculum for Living and other workshops? No. I use so many of the contents of their "toolkit" in my job everyday (I am a Recruiter). It has helped me open up and connect with people. It has eliminated my judgement of people and given me compassion. It has given me the tools to figure out what isn't serving me in what I want out of life and how to make changes and corrections that DO serve me.
The fact that you can get results from LGAT techniques doesn't change the fact that they are a type of destructive cult
Thanks for your input! What's LGAT tho?
Richie Park Large Group Awareness Training. They use Neuro-linguistic programming, psychological and physical manipulation to keep people in the cult. Yes it’s a cult. Everything described indicate it’s a cult yet you say it isn’t a cult. That is the true definition of a cult.
I can say honestly that in my experience they are in no way destructive. And as the dude in the video says, human beings run it, they aren’t perfect.
However it’s absolutely unacceptable to sexually harass someone.. that is made very clear from the beginning
Sounds like you've struck the truth of the matter. Sounds like the techniques can be helpful for people with issues, but then they turn around and use those same techniques to control and manipulate the people they're claiming to want to help.
Hey mate; greetings from Australia 🇦🇺 I did the forum and the 3 following parts - (curriculum for living) - FIA - Advanced - SELP over 20 years ago... all were good; but I agree with you; assisting is not my thing at all.. I paid all my tuition and played “full out” as they say; even enrolled plenty of friends and family in the forum and the majority of them got significant benefit ... I personally think there should be some form of remuneration for services to the assistants ... after watching “going clear” I see some similarities in LE ... I’m very glad I did landmark and still recommend it; but as you say - horses for courses - it’s not for everyone
If words have no meaning, why does it matter if you call it volunteering?
That is Landmark double speak. They are the biggest hypocrates on the face of the earth.
I was introduced to Landmark by my friend and paid $750 for 3 days session. However, after the very first day, I felt very uncomfortable that it seemed everyone had to step up and say something personal and emotional in front of 100 strangers. It felt so wired to me if I don't say anything. I escaped to watch movies on the 2nd day and 3rd day to relax myself, as I didn't want to go back to that Landmark forum to experience anxiety . They called me and left me voicemail, but I didn't go back.
Well I assisted, assisted for long but now I stopped as it demands one to perform at his/her highest potential( isn't that why we joined it in first place).
Very confusing at first but what powerful outcomes I got out of it🤯.
During assisting they told me to be in integrity meaning delivering your word to the highest standard. Along with that dropping and negative thoughts. It all seemed wishy washy at first and a bit pushy too but it like opened a new realm for me.
Sounds weird but assisting there showed me
✓how much power your word holds if you intent you actions in pure integrity.
✓That your thoughts affect an outcome in your surrounding (when they ask volunteers to step out of the room and clear the space i.e. go out and clear any negatives ideas that might be monkey popping in your brain as it has created a metaphysical hinderance in the reality)
✓impeccability creates a clutter free thought space to focus on your goals.
Though landmark was a self improvement kinda forum but if done with intent it opens up the metaphysical realm where you can actually see how this world is not mere a physically limited space.
It's been 5 years now I've not assisted but I continue my journey with teaching and mixing it with other teaching like alan watts, joe dispenza, gregg braden, bruce lipton etc
Landmark is repurposed Scientology. Look at the history, the language, the structure, the intent, and its effects on people's psyche.
Yes a lot of people have alluded to this, apparently its sstarted by the same people
I can't believe some people doubt this company has culty traits. The way they break you to form you is completely abusive. Victim blaming, shaming and all the ways they can to make you feel vulnerable so then you buy into whatever they tell you.
Hi richie did you object to them only giving money off the landmark program to do the advanced progam when your actually in landmark. ?
I bet the lady that let you go at the end was also part of the game. Once they could tell that you weren’t brainwashable, or were going to cause more problems based on you being able to think for yourself, she steps in and makes you feel like she was the only real person, even though she too was part of the whole thing
It really couldve, Im not too certain
There's a lot of drive to become to become 'the same' Everyone is an individual which makes the world actually a great place to live. Landmark is definitely not the solution for everyone, and I don't like how it is stressed for everyone to think the same. Great job realizing your worth! My ex is still in it, and she doesn't even realize her outside life crumbling, as she is slowly blocking everyone out for this program. That is definitely not cool nor is it safe. Unfortunately there are SOME good things that come out of it l, mixed with like 80% persuasive tactics. Welcome back to the free world!
gemgirl00 well put. Unfortunately thats not Landmarks fault, and dont think its what they mean to teach. Its weird how people use everything as a us vs them mentality. Wishing the best for your ex as well
@Soul Equaliser They don't call the graduates Land Martians for nothing.
Read my lengthy comment I left on this video, it will explain a lot of what has happened to her.
No swearing? I remember the leaders always swear. Thanks for sharing, i have had a wonderful experience with est, landmark since 1973. Let it ruminate, your experience expands over time. I got tremendous value out of assist program. Having something at stake for assisting works. It may seem unrelated, but it really works. Your opinions & perceptions may be what's in your way from achieving what's possible in your life. The assist was great for me, i personally got a lot out of it. Thank you for sharing your experience.
I am someone who assists regularly. I enjoy assisting, and any experiences I have had that weren't to my liking over the many years of assisting I have dealt with. What I can say to you Richie and to anyone who is in a similar place, is it's best to develop a context for what assisting is. There is a training called the Introduction to Assisting, a 3-hour training in one evening, that would be helpful to getting the big picture of what the Assisting Program really is.
A lot of times, people come right out of the Landmark Forum or the Advanced Course and are so excited by what they discovered in those courses they jump right into assisting, but never get trained on what the assisting program is for, and don't know what they don't know about assisting, so they are surprised when stuff comes up while they are assisting.
No one ever has to assist. However, without the people who assist, new people being introduced to the Landmark Forum would have much less of an opportunity to see the results of participating in the Landmark Forum. For many people, except for the person who invited them, the first time they get to interact with a graduate of the Forum is with someone who is assisting. So new people, the people who assist are the embodiment of what's possible out of participating in the Landmark Forum!
Out of the training I've gotten from assisting, among many other things, I've build my music performance and teaching business, I learned how to interact effectively with both adults and with young children and was able to develop a whole new stream of income teaching music to children.
That's a great perspective Kenti, thanks for sharing!
So, it is a cult.
It makes sense that if you don’t fully comprehend precisely what you’re agreeing to, it has a little choice but to show up as a breakdown.
I used to hate assisting as well, until I agreed to do the I LP. We knew precisely what we were signing up for! Assisting three days a week, in a BUSINESS SUIT.
Also, assisting in the WORLD. Leaving every room cleaner than when we entered it.
THAT was bananas!
I found myself cleaning the filthyest bathroom on Venice Beach one day in California. I mean it was a complete nightmare, but when I left it completely transformed, I wondered where the heck were the people who are PAID to do this?
I also felt INCREDIBLE! Like I had some sort of superpower!
I spent my entire life waiting for someone in charge to make a real difference in this life.
In that moment, I realized out of all the thousands of people on the beach, perhaps I’m the “make a difference guy“ that the world is waiting for.
For the first time in my life, I made myself “accountable“ for how life occurs on Earth. At least for “my” part.
That course was phenomenal. However it was a double edged sword. On the one hand, it made it possible for me to get my art into my first group show. On the other hand, I had an assisting agreement the day of the show. I had three choices. Number one, slime out of assisting by breaking my agreement. Number two, find another assistant to replace me. Or three, replace myself at my very first group exhibition.
By this time, I was so empty and meaningless that I decided to do something crazy. I enrolled an artist friend to “represent” my work, while I kept my assisting agreement, just to see what it’s like to be my word. It turned out to be the first time, that I occurred as some sort of big shot in the art world. Too important to show up at his own opening. 😝
I’ve been rollin’ like that ever since.
I had a retrospective for a month in an LA museum in 2011, and didn’t show up until the final day to give a lecture, because I now live in Florida.
Again, they treated me like some sort of celebrity because I “WASN’T” there.
Today, I get my LIFE out of assisting other artists.
And not only do I have assistants, but my assistants have stellar assistants.
Before Landmark, I also thought assisting simply meant volunteering, and perhaps it did. But since we’re making it all up, they distinguished assisting as something much more dynamic and empowering!
Landmark is about the money, getting your money, and then the money of your friends and family. I completed landmarks entire curriculum for living (under pressure from family who had already done the same). It was a huge waste of time and money that I regret
Thank you for making this video. Keep pressing on, no matter the opposition you get from anyone there.
Thank you, my goal is to uncover the truth
You're describing the exact experience I had - with the EST Training in 1979, and then "assisting" at the EST center afterward. I even took some courses afterward too, til I got so fed up with them constantly haranguing me to "share the training" (bring in new recruits) to the training. Landmark Forum is the same EST Training, only tweaked slightly, packaged differently, but it is essentially the very same training. I was too young when I took the training to get full benefit from it -
I was 18 years old, one of the youngest participants. It was a difficult experience for me, very confronting for a very shy teenager. The trainer humiliated me in front of hundreds of people, forcing me up on stage. Yeah, yeah, that's "victim talk" - LOL - but it really was that way, they heavily pressured you to stay in the room and do as they said. I was not given the option to decline the trainer's instructions to come up on stage and make a fool of myself. Perhaps had I been older, I could have derived more benefit from it, because I grew out of my self consciousness and shyness in later years.
Thanks for sharing! I hear about the similarities of EST and landmark all the time
@@RichiePark I just wanted to say thank you for putting this video out there I knew I wasn't crazy I just went to one of these landmark things in Quincy Mass I only live a town over it was quiet a scary cult failing walking in anyways I did not enjoy it and I will not give money to anything like that but thank you Ritchie Park from being so honest
Your word is important. When you give your word to something you stand behind it. Yes it’s important to know what your goal is by assisting. I know I have been more developed by putting something at stake by assisting. The training involved is huge. They are straight up. It’s those that don’t commit or make excuses that have you feel a guilt trip. I’ve never been forced. I have been help accountable for my word. You occurred as closed minded and kinda bitter. They ask about you to get to know you as a person.
You offered a really balanced view of the program, Richie! Your shout-out to Jesus made me laugh, too. I assisted for a few years. They are so defensive about anyone calling it "volunteering" because of the legal implications. It is illegal in the USA for a for-profit organization like Landmark (LM) to accept volunteers. All workers have to be paid at least minimum wage for their time. Even if a volunteer tries to waive their right to that pay, they legally cannot. So they don't let anyone call it volunteering. Officially, assisting is a "training program."
They tell you that you're getting trained by answering their phones, being a door greeter, resetting the room during breaks (chairs/chalboard/water stations/sound system), handing out documents, recruiting and registering new customers, even providing interpreting service for foreign language participants. Even seminar leaders are not paid. Yeah, it's not work, it's "TRAINING". Well, I learn things at my job all the time too, but that doesn't mean I don't deserve compensation - particularly for a highly specialized skill like Spanish/English interpreting, which I spent a lot of my own time and money to learn. The standard rate is $60/hour in my area and I see no reason to do it for free simply to benefit a multi-national For-Profit organization. It comes down to self-worth and their favorite word "integrity".
I enjoyed the community, met some really interesting people of many backgrounds, made some great friends over the years, but I just wasn't getting much value from assisting after a while. I didn't like that they took credit for everything good that ever happened in my life. The last straw was when I supported a weekend course that was understaffed and the production manager scolded me numerous times, for example, once when I took a 10-min bathroom break. "What were you doing in there!" I said, "That's none of your business! My EMPLOYER doesn't even talk to me like that and I'm here doing YOU a FAVOR. Maybe your attitude is why no one wanted to be on your team this weekend." (There are petty tyrants everywhere, and LM is not immune to them.)
I took the weekend course and i really liked it...after it was over. They followed me through 3 moves before they stopped calling me. Don't ask me to bring my friends in. My roommate worked for them and there were weird makeup rules and wardrobe restrictions and she used to get there at 7am and not get home till well after midnight.
Mercedes Mendez what kind of makeup rules and wardrobe restrictions?
Read my comment on this video and I think you'll understand what happened to her.
My girl has been all in, and unfortunately the time I've been around, it's been very very very time consuming!!! She tries to assure me it's almost over, but I hear her all the time calling herself an introduction specialist!! She sets appointments, calls, meetings, and everything first, then it feels like I have to accommodate and walk around her and Landmark's agenda!!
Landmark caused my friends dad to have a psychotic break. Thank god for Rick Ross and his cult institute information. Quite literally saved my friends dads life
So dad didn't go to God's people for rescue, but another fallible man? Like trying to go somewhere in a cart and the horse is behind not in front.
Just get on a saddle directly on the horse and ride it.
@@HTSS8 wtf are you talking about 🤣
Great "share". I participated at LM for many years. I did the young persons Forum, was on Staff, quit college to do the ILP...
I wish I would have gotten what you did much sooner. There are a lot of psychological games that are played there. It does more psychological damage than it does good. Yes, fundamentally what is being promoted (what you are enrolled into) is good and is something to live your life by, but I think most educated people who read philosophy and have values get the same thing.
Many practices put you in a loop, as you expressed. "If you want this, then that." "You are your word, so then you must do X." It's a hard one because you experience something amazing, but then things get clouded. It's like having a good trip, but if you do too much, you won't come back. As far as the "Assisting Program" - you kept saying "assist"- it's a deeper dive into what they call "transforming the world". You drink the cool aid, then you become the cool aid.
Yea, they would call this Karma in Buddhism, action that leads to another action, an enclosed loop from which you cannot escape.
Read my lengthy comment about this video, it will explain a lot of the ways they trapped you and why.
Thank you for sharing :) Great feedback.
I was asked to go many years ago. At first i was like this isnt to bad. I called my mom after which is what happens to a lot of people. You want to share your experience. Anyways called my mom and she said dont go back, sounds like a cult. She was right. They wouldnt leave me alone. They harrassed me for two weeks strait trying to get money to pay for their classes. I finally told my friend who was kind of higher up that they need to stop calling me or i am getting a military lawyer involved. My husband was in the navy than. They did back off. I still got a few phone calls a month trying to get me. And yes their language is a form of brainwashing. This guy says they dont hold you against your will. Explain their weekend retreat type things where you cant leavr, you take a break when they say and you cant get up to go to the bathroom. It does seem landmark has changed their language from 2001. These people take your money. You get nothing. It is similar yo Scientology
It's a lot better now, but I understand where youre coming from and heard similar stories
This happened to me too! I made the mistake of getting super high on high grade California cannabis so I could really enjoy the graduation celebration of my really good friend. As soon as I pulled into the underground parking lot in Culver City and saw all of the strategically placed greeters I was like wtf? So weird. I still proceeded to enter the ceremony. it was some definite light weight scientology techniques built on top of good ol' cult fundamentals. Did they do the glasses thing where the lady put on every ones glasses at the same time? she scratched the dude in front of me's glasses. I know it was all bad from that moment.
I took Landmark Forum years ago when it was only $500 and for whatever reason I didn’t get it. Maybe because I was older they only ask me to assist a few times and I always said no.
I did the forum and keep getting calls about my interest in volunteering even though I never talked to anyone about that
For some reason I never got calls, but I keep hearing that people do
Yes, I agree - went twice and a great program - but this was in the 90s it’s the same tactic to get me to “volunteer “ ultimately it’s a business and they need staff to feed that machine - that’s the disconnect and why I took what I got from it. Still recommend the program if you are wanting to handle your inner game
I know business owners who have their staff do the forum ... their results are remarkable. I’ve done assist programme on and off over a period of years and loved the interaction. Pick and choose what you want to assist in and how often ...
Yea the actual programs are amazing
Landmark is forbidden in France as a cult. They create real ZOMBIES by removing their brainfunctions. Dangerous bulshit of moneygrabbers
Your honesty is the most authentic thing you can do bro
Thank you!
Oh if anyone decides to sign up for Landmark, make sure to actually focus on reading the contract, because they will have other (students, assistants) sitting next to you encouraging you to sign up and talk your ear off and inadvertently get your attention off reading the contract. Also, they are not mental health professionals (not back then, though not sure about now but i doubt it)
Did they ever stop calling? I'm guessing no lol I moved to a new state and I still get messages about assisting
Really appreciate this video. Thank you
It's a cult bro
Landmark is definitely not a cult, but there are just things with the assist I did not vibe well with.
Pretty much.
Lol then change the videos title . Wtf
It sure is a cult. As soon as he mentioned that they police the words you say and use manipulation to guilt and guide you, that is all culty activity.
I do Hypnotherapy and I'm pretty good at getting one's brain to change from a limiting belief to a positive one. One of the things we use is NLP which is ways of using language to influence the positive result we want. One of the tactics in my tool box is to use a Pace or two (something verifiably true) to get their minds already agreeing with what I'm saying, adding in an action statement, then adding in 'and that means' the result we want, concluding with an emotional solution to bond to. For example:
Smoking is poisonous (Pace) and we all know of people who have died of Cancer from smoking (Pace) but if you were to quit smoking now (Action Statement), that would mean you would live a happier and healthier life (emotional solution).
That kind of framework works very well in helping people move away from smoking, especially while in trance and you're more suggestible. Cults do this very thing too. Except that they have more nefarious goals.
You don't have the success you want in life yet (pace) and you feel that you could get so much more if you just had the tools to do it (pace), so if you give us $700 (action statement), that means we can give you the tools to become great! (emotional solution).
Very simple tool to use. Adding pacing (truths) to the actions you want them to do and offering an emotional solution just makes them want to follow you all the more. Sales people, politicians, religions/cults do this all the time too. It works EXTREMELY WELL.
Thanks for your videos. I DID landmark forum,advanced and SELP.Although They forced me to become Coach for SELP, I only motivated groups to train 4 more people in their life to become Leaders. Inspite of pressures from LM I never forced my Groups into Enrolling more Bakras (victim's)into forum.Thatswhy I was singled as non performer but loved by my group members who have acknowledged huge impact of my training for them.I am retired now and will never recommend Assisting or coaching for the course; that too without remuneration. PRADIP BANGALI, Pune
Just got spiritually abused out of 1200$ after a landmark session. Pitted my wife against me, questioned my morality for having hesitation for wanting to commit, proceeded to ask what childhood trauma I had when I was 3 that was preventing me from committing. wife apologized to me after we had time to reflect, as she praised my wife’s behavior as morally good for wanting to commit. I could see my wife was getting anxious and agitated with my resistance for wanting to commit on the scene, so to hold the peace I agreed to sign up. Strange thing man… strange strange thing.
Said I felt pressured, the staff stated “do you hear yourself right now? You know you’re hurting everyone here saying you are being pressured right now” proceeded to say “what happened when you were three years old that is holding you back in life right now? What trauma when you were three is holding you back?” Literally the first time I’ve talked to this lady, all the red tail signs of spiritual abuse. Freaking weird bro
Nice... man I totally knew that it will go that way. I've just finished the Advanced Course and already smelled something bad. They way how they were forcing us to continue and bring more people and feel bad about yourselff if we don't totally threw me off. There are some golden nuggets for sure in their programs (for that money should be), but manipulation and brain washing that I've seen almost scared me. For mentally weaker people especially in life crises or something, this could be downhill with no return ticket.
Totally agree with you
Did you do any pencil straightening?
24/7
Lost two of my best friends to this "solution." One now works full-time for the business. Destroyed many, many friendships. "No water allowed" in the West 33rd Street auditorium is mind control from the very first minute. Smelled the BS and I walked out after twenty minutes...
No water allowed sounds so fishy lol.. luckily I had water
Read my lengthy comment on this video. It will answer a lot of your questions about what happened to your friend.
This was so awesome to listen to. Thank you for sharing your thoughts! 😉
I'm glad you were able to get some value out of it!
Just was gonna sign up soon for the assist program. Thankyou for this.
For the insight ❤️
Landmark uses volunteers as slaves in my personal experience
Interesting
I thought it was completely illegal to volunteer for a for-profit organization. Are they a non-profit?
Im not sure about that, might be why they use the word assist?
Great video and speaking the truth, I don't mind Landmark to get personal growth and change and learn from it and see my worths and values, but I need to understand I see my worths and values not comes from them, but God, I was viewing my life and prespective of things of life. They can only do much and they can't keep you there forever! Love most what Berry mentions, but he was very powerful in his sayings, but can be pushing and multipating as well, he says to us all! Don't judge and even you judge me I don't care! And other expressions shame on you he said! He is a ol;d men! Love when he talked about INtegregity great! I saw it was important and other stuff! But I won't continue it for the advance inforum and invite people, only they want to see for themselves or not! That's it
Rich this was sooo beneficial! When you first started talking I was worried hahaha but it was a very real, very rational, very hilarious review.
Thanks! Glad you enjoyed the video!
I get that they forbid the term "volunteer" bc only non-profit organizations can have free workers, that's a legal thing..hence the stress on insisting that it's "assisting"
Oooh gotcha
Bro Landmark is one big psychological tactic.
There are definitely aspects of it that are
I was an Introduction Leader and Course Supervisor L3 for almost a decade. I kept the good I learned from that place and I’m also glad I left a long time ago. I would never recommend this course to anyone after being away from it for about 4 years.
Have they contacted you since you’ve stopped assisting?
Yes they do from time to time
I went through the whole program. Sponsered by a friend. A few people in the beginning course said it reminded them of EST. There were only 10 people left before the end. Some things made sense. But it seemed I got lost in how they phrased things. This lady Rita Glass was the only one that talked somewhat straightforward . .We did the bunnyhop dance, I guess to break up the monotomy. I still wonder if I was the only one confused.
When did you take the course?
this sounds like the same program I was in, I feel the same exact way as you 100%. The program I went to was called Altru Center in NYC.
The reason why they ask you what you want to get is an exchange of value. Volunteering is under the meaning giving value giving back. Assist is to exchange value and experience. Also the reason why they have assist program to lower the cost of ovehead and keep the prices low. If they had to pay for marketing and everyone who works there then the course would easily cost 3k to 5k.
Connection is rapport build relatability. And genuine caring for each other.
I went into assist program to learn how to create a follow up system and how to make phones call with hugh clientele.
Moreover, they stop calling if you say stop calling under the USA communication act if you live in the States.
Thanks for sharing your perspective. They actually haven't called me in a while
You are honest. Thats all l can say.
I don't like the limitation of being an individual. Individuality isn't a bad thing.
Yea there's definitely a fine balance that needs to be achieved. Not sure if the Assist program gets there. The actual courses do though.
Hey Richie! Thanks for posting your review. I agree with you. I loved the program and really got a lot out of it. I never assisted but I found when speaking to people at Landmark they spoke with Landmark terms and I didn't feel like I was being talked to as a person to get to know another person.
I also didn't love the "pressure" to join the next step. My finances were not great at the time of taking the first forum. I put the first course on my credit card which was already a bad financial step, in my opinion. By the time the end of the first course came I was talked into joining the second course. I put it on my credit card but it was declined. lol That was my sign that perhaps I should deal with my finances first before getting into the next course.
The calls after were annoying for me too. But then I moved and got a new phone! Yahoo!
I've surprisingly hung out with a lot of groups that have been accused of being a "cult". I've just always taken away what works for me and not let the rest take over my life. :P
So did you go in with a purpose and something you wanted to achieve but did not know how, or did you do LM just to see what would happen - i.e. out of curiosity?
Also, if you already have the context of definition of LM being a cult, then that is what you will find. You believe and the world will create that reality for you.
That's a great approach
@NarrowPath I've left a lengthy comment on this video I think you'll enjoy.
It's (PROGRAM)MING beloved. They took a lot of thier stuff from Eastern Philosophies, Religion and Spirituality.
For sure I agree with that
Not only that, but they teach us how to design our OWN programs, with them or without them!
Thank you for sharing. What shows up for me is that you did not get the communication of powerful choice. There is something missing. Consider that your sharing is a wrong or right conversation rather than working or not working. The program is designed in such a way to have you deal with yourself. You can also see this type of racket showing up in many areas your life. I get your communication. Hope you are doing well and getting value in many ways.
Yeah currently assisting and trying to get out of it. As soon as I say no to anything or dont reply to calls it becomes my "ACT". Not impressed as it takes away from some of the things I was able to get and apply in real life.
I don't like how they make you feel like you're not getting it if you don't bring guest.
Yea, its just that they're very sold on the whole process
I haven't done assisting, but I've been to introduction session yesterday and I felt vibe you're describing and I didn't like it. Everything was about the Landmark as it it was the only thing on earth that could make you happy I felt pushed to registration as this was my only opportunity to achieve what I wanted in my life. I think I'm still gonna do the course just to see it but this was a bit weird. Thanks for this video!
Another add on is: I rather have my free will and choice God has given me? My church and ministry doesn't demand nothing out of me or my time and money? They have warned me about landmark and becareful as my family and some mention the same? Look my church is 2 hours only on Sunday, one day a week I am life growing and changing this lAndmarrk is great but demand s more from you and your time and I struggle alot as well! BUt I can't say we don't have meaning out ofg life, how can you learn and grows and God knows what mistakes and failures we been through and loves us inspite what we say and done
I'm with you..
But in a way , it's totally worth it.
I really didnt explore long enough to see the other side
So, Landmark is a cult (yes, they are, and have been since Erhard started est in the 70s), yet you believe the goatherders' God created man and woman with original sin, then destroyed most of them for sinning, then impregnated a woman with himself as her child so that he could be born and kill himself as a sacrifice to himself in order to save men and women from himself for the sin he gave them in the first place.
100%
So how much money did they take from you?
I did the forum 21 years ago because someone recommended I do it - not because I really wanted to. I didn't really have any breakthroughs but I did assist as I thought I could get some office-admin skills to throw on a resume as I had none at the time. Sounds stupid in hindsight but that was the reason. Anyway, I think I assisted once. Can't recall what I even did - maybe laid out name tags on a table. I was a bit weirded out by these people using the jargon behind the scenes. I decided I didn't really want anymore to do with it and told them so and I do recall someone calling me and try to guilt-trip me saying I'd committed blah, blah, blah and I was letting other down. Then there was a message to call some woman back and that it was urgent or serious. Needless to say I never did. Glad I simply walked away from it.
When you went to assist, you should of just told them " I am creating the possibility of interacting with other assistants here who will shed their fixed way of being and accept that I am here to simply give back to the Landmark community". That might shift their way of being and relating to you. IT would actually be transforming. LOL, but true. I, myself did Landmark 1 and 2, many years ago. Then when I was asked to assist i said " this is not an 'automatic no"- so don't let your meaning making mind make more meaning of this, it just means no, i am NOT assisting". And a side note here - I personally found that their are a number of Landmark leaders (one was my x boyfriend) who once away from their Landmark trance and away from heir Landmark homies, are still living in their scary stories, and rackets. I did enjoy Landmark Education 1 and 2, and it was money well spent. But that was enough of that stuff. Back to life.....more abundantly.
God Bless you. I think you meant to say - That's my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. Have a great holiday.