Please don't mess around with the old paperwork left behind! Get someone in to preserve it - it's far to valuable to let it disintegrate and it's part of the history.
Yeah i think the letters and lines where quite readable so they can at least rewrite it (in digital files). Then tape all the original pieces together and put it in a picture frame, hang it on the wall there.
Very interesting video! As a historian, even those diagram remnants have value. Just a suggestion that ACCHOS should get them out of there and into some type of safe preservation medium. Thanks for sharing this with us!!
I always wondered if this system had some kind of kinetic power stabilization like were used in old theatres all the way back to the beginning of electricity. And its nice to know that the AC/DC stabilizer is still in use today in even modern theatres, tv stations, and transmitter sites. Sometimes you call them flywheel or water wheels. The ones that utilize flywheels can stay in operation for several minutes at full power delivery until a generator can get up to full power. And with a flywheel system, you never have to worry about phase shift in the transfer switch.
Ha, they wouldn't be called "water wheels." That term is reserved for wheels with cups on them that catch falling water to rotationally power something.
Very interesting to see this building this way. I’m from The Netherlands, I always enjoy seeing the typical American building/construction styles, the atmosphere of it. Those block walls, exit signs, steel electrical conduits, etc. It’s a massive building.
The horse power rating of present day equipment is suspect. At the El Capitan in Hollywood, it took a soft start unit of 70 hp rating to start the 50 hp motor without having the soft start unit fail.
Remember, this was from an era when folks were building huge dirigibles the size of large ocean liners to fly in the skies, as well. Absolutely fascinating.
Haha... "I'm not gonna be able to say anything...." * Says things down there. Even if we wouldn't have been able to hear them, you could have still _said_ them.
Quick Question... I was there in fall of 2019, and I saw 1 or 2 Astron 12V DC Power Supplies near the digital relay. Are they working on phasing out the AC-DC motor-generator system, or was that additional power to run the newer relay?
The stack of Astron rectifiers is running the whole left side of the organ, as I remember, which is where the new relays are. I believe the plan is to replace the generator entirely with new rectifiers as the rest of the organ has solid state installed.
@@chrisnagorka5199 It seems like that the tremolo system is a rotating contact that sends out on/off pulses to some sort of electropneumatic mechanisms (Probably some solenoid valves that modulate the pressure?) So I suppose it won't be too difficult replacing it with a solid-state LFO module which consumes less power and has more precise timing control
Love watching your fascinating videos here in France. However, you wouldn't get away with unguarded motor couplings in Europe or the UK, even if they were in locked rooms.
I actually was wondering if showing that open vee-belt flopping around running the tremolo unit brought the OSHA people in there to shutter the place and levy fines on the building's operators forcing them out of existence.
I think had they used Spencer turbine Orgoblo blowers instead of Kinetic it might have been better, I have a 1927 orgoblo with a century motor and a 1929 Kinetic blower with a 3/4 HP motor, the Orgoblo is better built and instead of open but covered oil reservoirs for the bearings it has a closed oil system and a grease cup, it just seems better built and is all steel instead of a funky plywood box! I think Moller switched to using Kinetic because it was cheaper
If the Fanfare and/or Echo blowers were to be (carefully) started up, would the chests still function enough to manually trigger some of the pipes to hear what they sound like? Even if it's just a bunch of ciphers, it would still be really cool to see them do something. Or maybe move a few of the pipes to a functioning chest temporarily? Also I'm curious how the air filtering works. It must be hard to keep everything clean, especially with the blowers pulling air from a dusty basement room. Do they leave anything running 24/7 other than the humidification system?
Nothing would happen if the Echo & Fanfare blowers were started up because the windlines are cut so no wind would get up there at all. The air filtering isn't a big deal, it's just furnace air filters in the doors of the rooms. Air filtering in organs isn't as critical as you'd think because there are so many places the dirt would get trapped before it would make it to the chests. There have been a couple instances of moving pipes down to the main chamber to try a note here or there, but it's a real pain in the neck to do that so it doesn't happen often.
@@cnagorka I also forgot to ask about the tuning keyboards in the chambers. Do you know if they use the same relays as the console, or do they work more independently? Too bad about the wind lines. Hopefully they can be fixed too. I was really impressed to see how the left stage chamber was brought back online since it had everything cut. What's the next chamber that is being reconnected?
How can you have slow air flow if all of the pipe valves are closed? If they were open, the sound in the auditorium would probably be unbearable, especially for long periods of time.
@@DandyDon1 There are special valves which are like DE magnets with no magnet coil which stay open during the very low pressure operation. When the blower turns on for real the valves close and the system becomes sealed. Therefore there is actually air flow all the time. And also the DC motors were replaced many years ago, I don't know exactly when but at least 30 years ago.
do you guys run 3 phase or phase converters? Absolutely fascinating stuff man :) that relay video was a trip! the 12v electrician in me was giggling haha
A building like that would have 3 phase power unlike a residential workshop where the homeowner wants to run some woodworking machines but they take 3 phase power and residential neighbors don't normally have 3 phase available.
I really don't know- everything has been replaced with AC motors, from the original DC motors which had around 500 horsepower. The new ones have at least double the horsepower rating due to the difference between the way DC and AC motors operate. You might find it on the official Boardwalk Hall organ Facebook page.
What do they supposedly need a generator for if it's already electric on the input side? Is that generator set supposed to be for 3-phase conversion because that's what the blower motors need, or...? But then... since you showed us speed controls and said "VFDs" (variable-frequency drives) earlier, is that because those motors are 3-phase ones, as opposed to that really big motor back on the palette? But then in that case (I learned that VFDs can serve as phase converters too), why would they need a rotary converter too?
The unit on the left side of that pair looks like an ESCO DC generator. Presumably a motor-generator set was the best way to obtain the required amount of DC power when this was built.
@@IcthioVelocipede: Why not just use AC motors? Or if they insisted on DC motors for whatever reason, then why not just use a high-power rectifier circuit (seems like there must've been some high-power way to rectify AC even back then)? Oh, what time period are we talking about here? And if they don't need it now then why is it still running?
@@HelloKittyFanMan. I don't think the DC supply is for large motors (or not any more). Probably for controls and smaller electromechanical devices where variable speed etc was hard to do back then with AC? I think they said this was an 80 year old organ so we're talking 1940's technology. There weren't solid state rectifiers back then that were good for high power, and the other option was mercury arc rectifiers. Those would do the job but are big and expensive--overkill for this really.
@@IcthioVelocipede: Something was for big DC motors at one point, because we can see that one extra-big motor sitting down there on that pallet. That's why I have the question of why it would've been important to use DC motors at that point, at least in the blowers, where I can't imagine why you'd need adjustable speeds. Just turning the thing on and let'er rip! Don't the wind chests and slats do all the adjusting from there? And then, even if there are other things now that would need DC, I wonder why the org. keeps using this gen-set instead of just going to solid-state, especially since they do have that VFD down there, which I think is because the new blower motors are not just any old AC but 3-phase. So those VFDs will be the kind that can make 3-phase power. If they still have DC stuff to run, why not just throw in a solid-state high-power rectifier next to the VFDs, which would probably take a lot less electricity than that gen motor?
You know, I forgot all about it and nobody until now has mentioned it! It would be on the left as I made the right turn at about 1:40 in the video. I'll have to add that to the list for the next time I go up there, along with the (currently unused) Echo and Fanfare blowers.
@@cnagorka Ok i will watch them, i only saw blower in the one where you gone in the basement where swell blower and the 3 big ones were. In which videos do you show other blowers?
Someone please tell that the equipment shown in this video is not in this condition. OSHA regulations are written in blood and one wrong move around these machines and there will be plenty to see.
This is the way these machines have been operating since 1929 and to the best of my knowledge nobody has ever been hurt there in almost 100 years. They've always been treated with the respect they deserve.
@cnagorka I'm a retired tradesman, and every year for 19 years, I had to go through a safety program. If I walked into one of those rooms, I would freeze and back out. At this point, I'm really at a loss for words with your reasoning.
@cnagorka Here is a story you can fact check and may open somebody's eyes. In Canton, Ohio, there is a company Coon Construction. They kind of bent the rules now and then. There was a worker three stories up in a manlift. No training or fall protection program or equipment. He fell from the lift and died. The end result is that the owner Coon was a guest of the federal prison system for three years. The money that building must generate and they maintain equipment in this manner, unbelievable.
@@HelloKittyFanMan. I think it is a open constuction so air blows through the insides of the motor. Like the old Swedish motors. In 1950 the sealed motor came and sealed are the only motor type here. These motors looks a lot newer than 1950
What we, collectively accomplished in this country during the 20th century is incredible. This organ and its surroundings are prime examples.
Please don't mess around with the old paperwork left behind! Get someone in to preserve it - it's far to valuable to let it disintegrate and it's part of the history.
Yeah i think the letters and lines where quite readable so they can at least rewrite it (in digital files). Then tape all the original pieces together and put it in a picture frame, hang it on the wall there.
"too"
I'm a Electrician in the Northeast. Lot of old churches still have these old systems
Very interesting video! As a historian, even those diagram remnants have value. Just a suggestion that ACCHOS should get them out of there and into some type of safe preservation medium. Thanks for sharing this with us!!
ضضضضضضضضضضضضضضضضضضضضضضضضضضضضضضضضضضضضضضضضضضضضضضضضضضضضضضضضضضضضضضضضضضضضضضضضضضضضضضضضضضضضضضضضضضضضضضضضضضضضضضضضضضضضضضضضضضضضضضضضضضضضض
I always wondered if this system had some kind of kinetic power stabilization like were used in old theatres all the way back to the beginning of electricity. And its nice to know that the AC/DC stabilizer is still in use today in even modern theatres, tv stations, and transmitter sites. Sometimes you call them flywheel or water wheels. The ones that utilize flywheels can stay in operation for several minutes at full power delivery until a generator can get up to full power. And with a flywheel system, you never have to worry about phase shift in the transfer switch.
Ha, they wouldn't be called "water wheels." That term is reserved for wheels with cups on them that catch falling water to rotationally power something.
Thanks, nice tour!
Oh wow, that tremolo system's kind of interesting! I'd love to see more details of it.
Very interesting to see this building this way. I’m from The Netherlands, I always enjoy seeing the typical American building/construction styles, the atmosphere of it. Those block walls, exit signs, steel electrical conduits, etc. It’s a massive building.
How do they differ in the Netherlands?
I love these videos. Keep making them and I’ll keep watching. 👍🏼
Not sure when the next trip up there is going to be, but I certainly have more videos planned.
I'll bet those are the guys who are practicing even if we _don't_ look back there.
I hope you keep posting videos I’m very interested in this
today it's TWENTY-TWENTY and I love your videos !!! Thanks alot !!
Be looking for more blockbusters this year!
I like how you pronounced 2020, instead of some goon who might say "two thousand twenty," ha!
@cnagorka Are you going to do a video on the organ's humidification system anytime soon?
Interesting how much electrical stuff they made out of wood in those days.
Where is the 'nooks and crannies' video?
The horse power rating of present day equipment is suspect. At the El Capitan in Hollywood, it took a soft start unit of 70 hp rating to start the 50 hp motor without having the soft start unit fail.
My mind is blown! (Pardon the pun)
I don’t even know where to begin to try and put words to the size, scope and complexity of this thing.
HAHA, nice pun!
Remember, this was from an era when folks were building huge dirigibles the size of large ocean liners to fly in the skies, as well. Absolutely fascinating.
The Swell-High Pressure blower is being dismantled for a complete restoration.
Haha... "I'm not gonna be able to say anything...."
* Says things down there.
Even if we wouldn't have been able to hear them, you could have still _said_ them.
Quick Question... I was there in fall of 2019, and I saw 1 or 2 Astron 12V DC Power Supplies near the digital relay. Are they working on phasing out the AC-DC motor-generator system, or was that additional power to run the newer relay?
The stack of Astron rectifiers is running the whole left side of the organ, as I remember, which is where the new relays are. I believe the plan is to replace the generator entirely with new rectifiers as the rest of the organ has solid state installed.
@@chrisnagorka5199 It seems like that the tremolo system is a rotating contact that sends out on/off pulses to some sort of electropneumatic mechanisms (Probably some solenoid valves that modulate the pressure?) So I suppose it won't be too difficult replacing it with a solid-state LFO module which consumes less power and has more precise timing control
@@JBF-GST-Tanda The Opus II system will end up replacing the old mechanical system. But the dump valve system will be kept downstream.
I know big organs with a lot of pressure.. and you can't hear them barely ?
What is the very old looking motor that's seen on a wooden skid briefly @1:46-1:48?
I'm not certain but that's probably one of the original DC motors from the 1920s, given its open frame design.
Probably one of the originals, the motors in use look much newer and more modern
@@chrisnagorka5199: What happened to your account that you posted this video with?
Love watching your fascinating videos here in France. However, you wouldn't get away with unguarded motor couplings in Europe or the UK, even if they were in locked rooms.
I actually was wondering if showing that open vee-belt flopping around running the tremolo unit brought the OSHA people in there to shutter the place and levy fines on the building's operators forcing them out of existence.
Would a modern blower, designed today, be a lot quieter?
Maybe, but in the scale of this room, even that much noise makes no difference.
I think had they used Spencer turbine Orgoblo blowers instead of Kinetic it might have been better, I have a 1927 orgoblo with a century motor and a 1929 Kinetic blower with a 3/4 HP motor, the Orgoblo is better built and instead of open but covered oil reservoirs for the bearings it has a closed oil system and a grease cup, it just seems better built and is all steel instead of a funky plywood box!
I think Moller switched to using Kinetic because it was cheaper
As opposed to a "modern blower designed back then still"?
If the Fanfare and/or Echo blowers were to be (carefully) started up, would the chests still function enough to manually trigger some of the pipes to hear what they sound like? Even if it's just a bunch of ciphers, it would still be really cool to see them do something. Or maybe move a few of the pipes to a functioning chest temporarily?
Also I'm curious how the air filtering works. It must be hard to keep everything clean, especially with the blowers pulling air from a dusty basement room. Do they leave anything running 24/7 other than the humidification system?
Nothing would happen if the Echo & Fanfare blowers were started up because the windlines are cut so no wind would get up there at all. The air filtering isn't a big deal, it's just furnace air filters in the doors of the rooms. Air filtering in organs isn't as critical as you'd think because there are so many places the dirt would get trapped before it would make it to the chests. There have been a couple instances of moving pipes down to the main chamber to try a note here or there, but it's a real pain in the neck to do that so it doesn't happen often.
@@cnagorka I also forgot to ask about the tuning keyboards in the chambers. Do you know if they use the same relays as the console, or do they work more independently? Too bad about the wind lines. Hopefully they can be fixed too. I was really impressed to see how the left stage chamber was brought back online since it had everything cut. What's the next chamber that is being reconnected?
@@cnagorka: Pschh, what would the supposed point of cutting the lines have been?
But that's an AC 3-phase motor. The original DC motor is apparently sitting outside the door? I think the DC motors are much more fun to watch/hear.
How can you have slow air flow if all of the pipe valves are closed? If they were open, the sound in the auditorium would probably be unbearable, especially for long periods of time.
@@DandyDon1 There are special valves which are like DE magnets with no magnet coil which stay open during the very low pressure operation. When the blower turns on for real the valves close and the system becomes sealed. Therefore there is actually air flow all the time. And also the DC motors were replaced many years ago, I don't know exactly when but at least 30 years ago.
Why, what would make the supposed difference?
hmm you'd deserve way more subs for your interesting work🤔
Thanks- be looking for more vids coming up in late May (with any luck)
do you guys run 3 phase or phase converters? Absolutely fascinating stuff man :) that relay video was a trip! the 12v electrician in me was giggling haha
A building like that would have 3 phase power unlike a residential workshop where the homeowner wants to run some woodworking machines but they take 3 phase power and residential neighbors don't normally have 3 phase available.
He mentioned a VFD at some point
@@amessman That will be to vary the frequency, as opposed to converting phases.
Even if they're running a phase converter, that's still running 3-phase... on the 3-phase side.
@@HobbyOrganist: Maybe this one doesn't... maybe that's what this thing is for.
Here it is 1:45
Wow, I hope you guys would put those 8-decade-oldish lists in some kind of safe-keeping area instead of just walking on them.
UNLOCKED!
What is the total HP/KW of the blowers?
I really don't know- everything has been replaced with AC motors, from the original DC motors which had around 500 horsepower. The new ones have at least double the horsepower rating due to the difference between the way DC and AC motors operate. You might find it on the official Boardwalk Hall organ Facebook page.
@@chrisnagorka5199 Wow, that is mind-blowing; I would like to see (& hear) it for myself one day, Thanks for the info.
What do they supposedly need a generator for if it's already electric on the input side? Is that generator set supposed to be for 3-phase conversion because that's what the blower motors need, or...? But then... since you showed us speed controls and said "VFDs" (variable-frequency drives) earlier, is that because those motors are 3-phase ones, as opposed to that really big motor back on the palette? But then in that case (I learned that VFDs can serve as phase converters too), why would they need a rotary converter too?
The unit on the left side of that pair looks like an ESCO DC generator. Presumably a motor-generator set was the best way to obtain the required amount of DC power when this was built.
@@IcthioVelocipede: Why not just use AC motors? Or if they insisted on DC motors for whatever reason, then why not just use a high-power rectifier circuit (seems like there must've been some high-power way to rectify AC even back then)? Oh, what time period are we talking about here? And if they don't need it now then why is it still running?
@@HelloKittyFanMan. I don't think the DC supply is for large motors (or not any more). Probably for controls and smaller electromechanical devices where variable speed etc was hard to do back then with AC? I think they said this was an 80 year old organ so we're talking 1940's technology. There weren't solid state rectifiers back then that were good for high power, and the other option was mercury arc rectifiers. Those would do the job but are big and expensive--overkill for this really.
@@IcthioVelocipede: Something was for big DC motors at one point, because we can see that one extra-big motor sitting down there on that pallet. That's why I have the question of why it would've been important to use DC motors at that point, at least in the blowers, where I can't imagine why you'd need adjustable speeds. Just turning the thing on and let'er rip! Don't the wind chests and slats do all the adjusting from there?
And then, even if there are other things now that would need DC, I wonder why the org. keeps using this gen-set instead of just going to solid-state, especially since they do have that VFD down there, which I think is because the new blower motors are not just any old AC but 3-phase. So those VFDs will be the kind that can make 3-phase power. If they still have DC stuff to run, why not just throw in a solid-state high-power rectifier next to the VFDs, which would probably take a lot less electricity than that gen motor?
@@HelloKittyFanMan. Limited $$$, more than likely,
Wheres the "Swell Low" blower room?
You know, I forgot all about it and nobody until now has mentioned it! It would be on the left as I made the right turn at about 1:40 in the video. I'll have to add that to the list for the next time I go up there, along with the (currently unused) Echo and Fanfare blowers.
When is the organ suppose to be a 100% functional again?
When Atlantic City actually gets money again, it's a shit hole right now, and COVID probably ground it to a hault.
supposED
So it is 4 blowers for that organ? 3 in that room and the other one that was running?
No: Swell High, Swell Low, Choir, Echo, Fanfare, Great High, Great Low, and 100" compressor- eight blowers.
@@cnagorka Oh would be nice if you made a video where you show all of the blowers. Are they all in the basement?
@@theodorranebo2909 I pretty much have shown all the blowers in different videos, just not the new Choir one.
@@cnagorka Ok i will watch them, i only saw blower in the one where you gone in the basement where swell blower and the 3 big ones were. In which videos do you show other blowers?
@@theodorranebo2909 Here's Echo and low pressure swell: th-cam.com/play/PL_B1FT6xX7nFSiMU_rTzScx8EUAppzTEP.html
Someone please tell that the equipment shown in this video is not in this condition. OSHA regulations are written in blood and one wrong move around these machines and there will be plenty to see.
This is the way these machines have been operating since 1929 and to the best of my knowledge nobody has ever been hurt there in almost 100 years. They've always been treated with the respect they deserve.
@cnagorka I'm a retired tradesman, and every year for 19 years, I had to go through a safety program. If I walked into one of those rooms, I would freeze and back out. At this point, I'm really at a loss for words with your reasoning.
@@Mike44460I just make the videos, it isn't my workplace.
@cnagorka Here is a story you can fact check and may open somebody's eyes. In Canton, Ohio, there is a company Coon Construction. They kind of bent the rules now and then. There was a worker three stories up in a manlift. No training or fall protection program or equipment. He fell from the lift and died. The end result is that the owner Coon was a guest of the federal prison system for three years. The money that building must generate and they maintain equipment in this manner, unbelievable.
Dang I wanna know how many amps it pulls while running lol
As opposed to how many amps it pulls while... OFF? Ha!
@@HelloKittyFanMan.as opposed to while spooling slowly for humidity.
@@b43xoit: That's still running.
I like subbasements ...there soo cementy..
* concrete
And yet, so much to be salvaged.
These motors looks really strange, not like the motors here in Sweden
What's the supposed "difference," according to you?
@@HelloKittyFanMan. They have fans in front of them and heatsinks om the motor body
@@theodorranebo2909: Interesting. So why can those with the same operating specs but which lack the cooling equipment survive?
@@HelloKittyFanMan. I think it is a open constuction so air blows through the insides of the motor. Like the old Swedish motors. In 1950 the sealed motor came and sealed are the only motor type here. These motors looks a lot newer than 1950
But wait, @@theodorranebo2909. Don the ones with fans have air blowing through them too?
"Where the swell blower used to be... before it was relocated."
Well, of course before it was relocated... that's already built into the "used to be."
Des ist Kompresser Anlage von ne Kirchen Orgel war.
Very similar, but on a much grander scale.
Guess what: it's easier to say "TWENTY-nineteen," just like you said 1919 as "NINETEEN-nineteen." Try it today!