A deep dive into the intercom/telephone system (yes, the organ has one) and all the remote keyboards used in the building and maintenance of the organ.
I've wanted a closer look at that stuff for years! Nobody's ever said anything about it other than it's an intercom that wasn't used anymore. I always enjoy the fine electrical details that most people gloss over.
They must have had an Elks convention in the hall at some point. Tiler, Leading K and Loyal K all refer to officers in an Elks Lodge. The Tiler is the person who sits outside the door to the lodge room and ensures only members can enter. Leading K and Loyal K are the Leading and Loyal Knights, who are, along with the Exalted Ruler, the three principal officers of an Elks Lodge. It would not surprise me if a Grand Lodge session had been held in the hall at some point after the organ was built.
You beat me to it! Thought it was something masonic aligned, didn't know if it was one of the American rites, quite different from Masonry over here in the UK.
Try to keep straight a Dictaphone and a Dictograph. The intercom system would've been a stand-alone system that included the locations he talked about. The buttons on the lighting board were descriptive locations and the remote units seemed to list the 'function' of the location. There would be an indicator as to which station was 'calling in' so that switch or 'key' could be operated to answer. Some of those systems had a light that would illuminate when the 'handset' was returned on hook to indicate that the 'key' needed to be returned to the idle location. The "telephone system" would've simply been a "hoot-n-hollar" system where it worked like a conference bridge. Any phone that was picked up would simply be able to talk to any other phone without having any switching equipment. This would've been used during maintenance anywhere. The 'telephone board' was just a termination location for the cables that went to each area. The old phone systems used 3 wires, Tip, Ring, and Ground common. The tip and ring wires (name from the jack used on an operator's cord board) carried the 'battery voltage' to the phones for them to operate. The ground wire wasn't really used, hence why it probably didn't have a name on the bus bars. The screws on the bus bars were a means to parallel the battery voltage to all the phones.
Yes I kept saying Dictaphone because Dictograph doesn't make sense as I keep thinking it's something visual! But then again a "phonograph" isn't visual. And- good info on the organ phone system, it makes a lot more sense now.
Organs are so complex. It amazes me how they built such things in the first place, but how people like you can figure stuff out like this years later just blows me away. Very interesting. Impressive instrument and brilliantly done coverage of these components.
BTW, Dictograph also made some interesting eavesdropping and spying equipment for law enforcement back in the day that used the same technology. There was also a mobile unit for rich people sitting in the back of their limousine to talk to their chauffeur in the front of the car.
That is so cool, I always wondered about what that was above the console! I love these behind the scenes videos, thank you so much for taking the time to make these. It's my dream to visit someday and hear this amazing organ in person. I know it's not necessarily organ related, but I'd love to see more tours of the backstage and Westinghouse lighting controls.
Thank you, Chris. The mechanics and workings of the M-L are what fascinate me so much about it, and your videos have made me even more fascinated with it. I can't visit as often as I'd like but I can enjoy these incredible 1920s tinker-toys from the comfort of my home thanks to you.
I worked on very old school telephone systems. The room phones were common talk That is all the phones were in Pharrell when any room phone was taken off the hook a buzzer in the office (At the organ) That would only use two of those three connections.
Fascinating. Every video shows more of just how monstrously complicated this organ is. It must have been one of the most complex machines built at that time on the planet. The old stage lighting panels alone must have been a hell of a thing to set up. No wonder things were left to rot when they failed...no one knew how to fix it, or there was no one left who cared. Are there any schematics, plans or master blueprints of how everything was supposed to be hooked up? BTW, I was surprised you didn't mention the 5-manual portable console.
Aha! I was only talking about portable keyboards, not entire consoles! Seriously there are quite a few blueprints left about the organ electrical hookup and I'm sure all the electrical blueprints are still in the building, there are literally rooms full of blueprints (not having to do with the organ, unfortunately).
Great video, Chris. I, too, was fascinated by the Dictograph system at the top of the ML. I bought one on eBay (like the one on top of the organ) and some smaller units. I was hoping to get them working, and use it to call from the recording studio in my house up to the kitchen (maybe to ask my wife to bring down snacks ;) ). I haven't gotten it going yet, for a number of reasons. But, I have found out a lot about it. I'm guessing that the plugs you see in the chambers and down by the combination action are not part of the Dictograph system, although they could be. The internal workings are very primitive. BTW, the slots above the switches aren't for lightbulbs. They're for a mechanical indicator with a solenoid (which might be seized in the units you have). Again, this system if VERY primitive. There are no tubes. It's purely a carbon mic and a horn type speaker (or headphone). From what I can tell, they were all battery powered, too (they used a combination of 6 volt batteries, and 4.5 volt batteries). I haven't gotten too far in trying to get mine running, but I fear the carbon element on the microphone and the membrane that drives it might be shot (this might be the case for all the remaining units out there). I don't know the condition of the element in the speaker. Installing a system like this took a LOT of wiring, though, and cables with a lot of wire pairs. It looks like you've discovered some of the junctions. This was really high-tech stuff when it first came out. It would be great if you got that system going again. I've been meaning to take that microphone apart, but I'm sort of afraid to do it. There's supposed to be a bunch of loose carbon pellets in there. If the membrane has disintegrated and ruptured, they might already be missing. I do wonder if they ever used that Dictograph system at Boardwalk Hall very much. I imagine the systems worked okay in office settings, but might have been difficult in an arena with a lot of ambient noise. I did scour the internet for information on this equipment, though, and found some interesting documents in some very off-the-beaten-track locations, including a detailed schematic of a system. I also found a .pdf of a comprehensive catalog of everything they make. If you PM me with your email, I'd be happy to send you the whole folder of documents (it's easily emailed in a couple of emails).
Well that's why I put this out there, I knew someone out there must have experience with these units as people who like the organ stuff like vintage electro-mechanical anything! There is one video on YT of someone who has a slightly later system in operation.
Can't happen, they're just carbon microphones, switches and a battery. The only thing you could do is to gut the boxes and put bluetooth enabled transceivers in each one.
@@cnagorka I'd do one better. Most likely the speaker driver is attached to what is behind the hole (likely a small horn) and the carbon mic most likely comes apart. So it would be easily possible to put a small mic behind the front of the original mic and attach a speaker to the horn. One could use something like a raspberry pi in the case to provide the function of the switches and the mic and speaker and it can be connected to others via WI-FI. However, the box is then no longer 100% original and with other better ways of communication there would be no real point in doing that.
Comment about the "canceler" at 7:00 -- It would appear that the master station was not supposed to cancel upon returning the earpiece to the hook. The earpiece was an optional feature that, I think, could be returned to the hook during a conversation (and not cancel the connection). Just my guess. Hey... open the box and see for yourself. Inquiring minds want to know.
As an old theater tech, I'd love a tour of the lighting and dimmer systems you showed. Looks like a 5 scene preset. But was it for AC or DC lighting units? Some old theaters (Like the Civic Opera House in Chicago have, or had mixed AC and DC systems as the DC was easier to dim with either rheostats, saturable reactors, which were transformers wound with two windings one of which got DC current to it and one the dimmer load. Later Thytron tubes were used. Maybe you could help the Convertion Hall's master electrician give a tour of the backstage dimmers, rigging lighting instruments etc and how it has changed over time? Thanks.
Hi: I'm not up on that kind of thing, I'm just a lowly organ tech ;) Seriously I don't know that anyone there now is going to know much about the old lighting system, but I'll pass it along to the folks up there next visit.
Could it be possible that last weird rank was meant to be provide master or reference pitches? It would make sense to be deliberately isolated if that helps the pipes from drifting out of tune, and the rest of the instrument could be tuned to match those specific pipes.
If that was the case they wouldn't use these strange looking flute pipes, which look like Harmonic Flutes without the holes in the center- they would use Principal/Diapason pipes as those have always been used for reference stops.
Looking at how some of those keyboards were cobbled together from salvaged material, do you think they were part of the original Midmer Losh installation? They just don't seem to be of the same quality as the rest of the instrument construction. If the Midmer Losh company had installed them, I'd kind of expect that they'd all be similar, and not made out of used hardware. Or, is it possible that organ maintenance people jury rigged them in there because they really needed them? Maybe originally, the ML folks thought that their telephone system would be all that was needed.
They're definitely from the original installation, but from materials which were probably salvage back then. Those little turn-jacks for setting stops are the same as used in the setterboards for the five manual console.
Amazing, i guess the Organ was important as being the worlds biggest ? Does the organ play fully? I have heard stories that it has from new never played with all ranks working?
General question; When you upgrade wiring, is it policy to remove the old wiring, or is it considered "historical" and left? There must be miles of it. And are the cables lead covered over cloth wraped wire as I have seen in some organs?
It depends- if a chest is removed entirely for service the old cable isn't put back, but if a chest can be restored in place and connected to the solid state on the other end, the old cable can stay. The organ cables are double cotton covered and enameled, there's no lead anywhere in the wiring.
How does the organ get tuned nowadays without the remote manuals? I would think it would be hard even with modern technology like phones to make calls to tune it correctly.
@@cnagorka I'm surprised they didn't take it out when they remodeled. Must be a fortune in copper buss bars in there. But it should be preserved for historical purposes. Maybe relocated to somewhere the public could see it?
![Mirrr x BUS5 - กี่เหตุผล (1000REASONS) [Live Session]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/6Ta00hFr2qU/mqdefault.jpg)
I've wanted a closer look at that stuff for years! Nobody's ever said anything about it other than it's an intercom that wasn't used anymore. I always enjoy the fine electrical details that most people gloss over.
Good- I wasn't 100% sure people would care for that part.
Man, i want the Chris tour of the organ. This is the level of detail i crave. Haha
They must have had an Elks convention in the hall at some point. Tiler, Leading K and Loyal K all refer to officers in an Elks Lodge. The Tiler is the person who sits outside the door to the lodge room and ensures only members can enter. Leading K and Loyal K are the Leading and Loyal Knights, who are, along with the Exalted Ruler, the three principal officers of an Elks Lodge. It would not surprise me if a Grand Lodge session had been held in the hall at some point after the organ was built.
Aha! Very good- this is the kind of info I love in the comments section
You beat me to it! Thought it was something masonic aligned, didn't know if it was one of the American rites, quite different from Masonry over here in the UK.
chris is giving us the only portal to seeing inside this instrument, the only guy doing it on the internet too!
Try to keep straight a Dictaphone and a Dictograph.
The intercom system would've been a stand-alone system that included the locations he talked about. The buttons on the lighting board were descriptive locations and the remote units seemed to list the 'function' of the location. There would be an indicator as to which station was 'calling in' so that switch or 'key' could be operated to answer. Some of those systems had a light that would illuminate when the 'handset' was returned on hook to indicate that the 'key' needed to be returned to the idle location.
The "telephone system" would've simply been a "hoot-n-hollar" system where it worked like a conference bridge. Any phone that was picked up would simply be able to talk to any other phone without having any switching equipment. This would've been used during maintenance anywhere. The 'telephone board' was just a termination location for the cables that went to each area. The old phone systems used 3 wires, Tip, Ring, and Ground common. The tip and ring wires (name from the jack used on an operator's cord board) carried the 'battery voltage' to the phones for them to operate. The ground wire wasn't really used, hence why it probably didn't have a name on the bus bars. The screws on the bus bars were a means to parallel the battery voltage to all the phones.
Yes I kept saying Dictaphone because Dictograph doesn't make sense as I keep thinking it's something visual! But then again a "phonograph" isn't visual. And- good info on the organ phone system, it makes a lot more sense now.
Organs are so complex. It amazes me how they built such things in the first place, but how people like you can figure stuff out like this years later just blows me away. Very interesting. Impressive instrument and brilliantly done coverage of these components.
BTW, Dictograph also made some interesting eavesdropping and spying equipment for law enforcement back in the day that used the same technology. There was also a mobile unit for rich people sitting in the back of their limousine to talk to their chauffeur in the front of the car.
Yeah I saw that, limousine versions, how awesome was that!
That is so cool, I always wondered about what that was above the console! I love these behind the scenes videos, thank you so much for taking the time to make these. It's my dream to visit someday and hear this amazing organ in person. I know it's not necessarily organ related, but I'd love to see more tours of the backstage and Westinghouse lighting controls.
That control panel is pretty intimidating, thinking about the ferocious amount of current it controlled back in the day.
Thank you, Chris. The mechanics and workings of the M-L are what fascinate me so much about it, and your videos have made me even more fascinated with it. I can't visit as often as I'd like but I can enjoy these incredible 1920s tinker-toys from the comfort of my home thanks to you.
20:00 activating each mixture rank separately is a fabulous idea, especially to organ tuners who are weary of fiddling around with mutes.
I worked on very old school telephone systems. The room phones were common talk That is all the phones were in Pharrell when any room phone was taken off the hook a buzzer in the office (At the organ) That would only use two of those three connections.
The cut-up on those 13 Spire Flute pipes is insane!! Pressure is what? 25" or 35"?
I'm not sure, probably 20".
I would love to restore that system, perhaps with some solid state electronics.
Interesting, now all of this can be done with wireless midi keyboards (granted everything was digified).
Fascinating. Every video shows more of just how monstrously complicated this organ is. It must have been one of the most complex machines built at that time on the planet. The old stage lighting panels alone must have been a hell of a thing to set up. No wonder things were left to rot when they failed...no one knew how to fix it, or there was no one left who cared. Are there any schematics, plans or master blueprints of how everything was supposed to be hooked up?
BTW, I was surprised you didn't mention the 5-manual portable console.
Aha! I was only talking about portable keyboards, not entire consoles! Seriously there are quite a few blueprints left about the organ electrical hookup and I'm sure all the electrical blueprints are still in the building, there are literally rooms full of blueprints (not having to do with the organ, unfortunately).
The amount of engineering that went into this masterpiece...
Great video, Chris. I, too, was fascinated by the Dictograph system at the top of the ML. I bought one on eBay (like the one on top of the organ) and some smaller units. I was hoping to get them working, and use it to call from the recording studio in my house up to the kitchen (maybe to ask my wife to bring down snacks ;) ). I haven't gotten it going yet, for a number of reasons. But, I have found out a lot about it. I'm guessing that the plugs you see in the chambers and down by the combination action are not part of the Dictograph system, although they could be. The internal workings are very primitive. BTW, the slots above the switches aren't for lightbulbs. They're for a mechanical indicator with a solenoid (which might be seized in the units you have). Again, this system if VERY primitive. There are no tubes. It's purely a carbon mic and a horn type speaker (or headphone). From what I can tell, they were all battery powered, too (they used a combination of 6 volt batteries, and 4.5 volt batteries). I haven't gotten too far in trying to get mine running, but I fear the carbon element on the microphone and the membrane that drives it might be shot (this might be the case for all the remaining units out there). I don't know the condition of the element in the speaker. Installing a system like this took a LOT of wiring, though, and cables with a lot of wire pairs. It looks like you've discovered some of the junctions. This was really high-tech stuff when it first came out.
It would be great if you got that system going again. I've been meaning to take that microphone apart, but I'm sort of afraid to do it. There's supposed to be a bunch of loose carbon pellets in there. If the membrane has disintegrated and ruptured, they might already be missing.
I do wonder if they ever used that Dictograph system at Boardwalk Hall very much. I imagine the systems worked okay in office settings, but might have been difficult in an arena with a lot of ambient noise.
I did scour the internet for information on this equipment, though, and found some interesting documents in some very off-the-beaten-track locations, including a detailed schematic of a system. I also found a .pdf of a comprehensive catalog of everything they make. If you PM me with your email, I'd be happy to send you the whole folder of documents (it's easily emailed in a couple of emails).
Well that's why I put this out there, I knew someone out there must have experience with these units as people who like the organ stuff like vintage electro-mechanical anything! There is one video on YT of someone who has a slightly later system in operation.
Lee, if the carbon mic is shot, a carbon mic from a telephone handset might work as a suitable replacement.
Wouldn't it be cool if the intercom boxes could be modernized to where they connect wirelessly.
Can't happen, they're just carbon microphones, switches and a battery. The only thing you could do is to gut the boxes and put bluetooth enabled transceivers in each one.
@@cnagorka
I'd do one better.
Most likely the speaker driver is attached to what is behind the hole (likely a small horn) and the carbon mic most likely comes apart.
So it would be easily possible to put a small mic behind the front of the original mic and attach a speaker to the horn.
One could use something like a raspberry pi in the case to provide the function of the switches and the mic and speaker and it can be connected to others via WI-FI.
However, the box is then no longer 100% original and with other better ways of communication there would be no real point in doing that.
Thank you
Comment about the "canceler" at 7:00 -- It would appear that the master station was not supposed to cancel upon returning the earpiece to the hook. The earpiece was an optional feature that, I think, could be returned to the hook during a conversation (and not cancel the connection). Just my guess. Hey... open the box and see for yourself. Inquiring minds want to know.
As an old theater tech, I'd love a tour of the lighting and dimmer systems you showed. Looks like a 5 scene preset. But was it for AC or DC lighting units? Some old theaters (Like the Civic Opera House in Chicago have, or had mixed AC and DC systems as the DC was easier to dim with either rheostats, saturable reactors, which were transformers wound with two windings one of which got DC current to it and one the dimmer load. Later Thytron tubes were used. Maybe you could help the Convertion Hall's master electrician give a tour of the backstage dimmers, rigging lighting instruments etc and how it has changed over time? Thanks.
Hi: I'm not up on that kind of thing, I'm just a lowly organ tech ;) Seriously I don't know that anyone there now is going to know much about the old lighting system, but I'll pass it along to the folks up there next visit.
That is really neat! Thank you for sharing this!
I really enjoy your videos. What do you do for tuning keyboards in modern times? Wifi MIDI to the new console?
Most of the time they can use iPads in the organ chamber operating the organ through Wi-Fi, it doesn't need to go to the console.
😊 Thank you I wonder how they did that 😮 !!
Thank you very much! I thought you would finally show us enclosed choir division after restroration... 😀
It isn't finished as the big reeds still aren't installed,
Could it be possible that last weird rank was meant to be provide master or reference pitches? It would make sense to be deliberately isolated if that helps the pipes from drifting out of tune, and the rest of the instrument could be tuned to match those specific pipes.
If that was the case they wouldn't use these strange looking flute pipes, which look like Harmonic Flutes without the holes in the center- they would use Principal/Diapason pipes as those have always been used for reference stops.
Looking at how some of those keyboards were cobbled together from salvaged material, do you think they were part of the original Midmer Losh installation? They just don't seem to be of the same quality as the rest of the instrument construction. If the Midmer Losh company had installed them, I'd kind of expect that they'd all be similar, and not made out of used hardware. Or, is it possible that organ maintenance people jury rigged them in there because they really needed them? Maybe originally, the ML folks thought that their telephone system would be all that was needed.
They're definitely from the original installation, but from materials which were probably salvage back then. Those little turn-jacks for setting stops are the same as used in the setterboards for the five manual console.
Can we get a locker room area or backstage area tour?
Amazing, i guess the Organ was important as being the worlds biggest ? Does the organ play fully? I have heard stories that it has from new never played with all ranks working?
The organ is about 60% playable. As far as I know it all played at one time even though it wasn't "finished" as far as the senator wanted.
General question; When you upgrade wiring, is it policy to remove the old wiring, or is it considered "historical" and left? There must be miles of it. And are the cables lead covered over cloth wraped wire as I have seen in some organs?
It depends- if a chest is removed entirely for service the old cable isn't put back, but if a chest can be restored in place and connected to the solid state on the other end, the old cable can stay. The organ cables are double cotton covered and enameled, there's no lead anywhere in the wiring.
Are you going to make a video showing the choir division?
I will after it's finished. It's still missing the big reeds.
@@cnagorka I also would like the blower for the choir division to be included in the video. I am wondering how that section of the organ gets winded.
How does the organ get tuned nowadays without the remote manuals? I would think it would be hard even with modern technology like phones to make calls to tune it correctly.
More and more they can use the iPads through the solid state system. Otherwise it's just done at the console.
Do the solid state keyboards still support Second Touch?
Not yet and I don't know if they'll ever hook that back up since it was such a failure when it was new.
Do the original lighting controls do anything currently?
Nope, long disconnected and replaced with solid state controls in the back of the room.
@@cnagorka I'm surprised they didn't take it out when they remodeled. Must be a fortune in copper buss bars in there. But it should be preserved for historical purposes. Maybe relocated to somewhere the public could see it?
Does this organ have any MIDI input?
Yes, through the Opus II system.