That Hedden knot is basically the overhand knot of friction hitches. It's a real no brainer. Thx for bringing it to my/our attention. So many practical uses. Throwing in the bull hitch at the beginning of the Hedden is just the kind of innovation I've come to expect from you. Great stuff! 👍
Appreciate that Mike. There are so many friction hitches that were here before me, and I have tried to check them all out... and for whatever reason, the Hedden appears to lack the appropriate amount of recognition. Its super useful. My next video will show how to use one in a practical application, and use in conjunction with a JRB Ascender. Thx for your comment and support.
I love this video! I spent hours watching videos that kept telling me to buy expensive brand name hand ascenders, only to watch this and realize they were all a waste of time. I've now tied your version on my climbing rope for my morning climb
Sparky, thanks for the comment. Be aware that the idea of putting a compactly tied Longhorn under any 2 strand friction hitch will turn it into a Hand Ascender. For example, I stuck it under the Agile Hitch also. I recommend trying both the Hedden and the Agile Hitch as a Hand Ascender and pls let me know which one you like best. Cheers
As I am watching my own video for the first time, the Hedden tied in webbing was tied with 4 wraps, not 3. My excuse is that I was too distracted trying to stay in the field of view while self filming that I forgot how to count!!
Was just about to ask this! I spent a few minutes watching back and counting and comparing to the rope version. At least you were consistent, it was tied with 4 wraps before the video started also!
@@HuckFTW i truly do my best but failed to catch that when i played it back for editing... and if ya noticed, it was one continuous take, and so my only edits were captions.
@@jrbtc yeah I’m always impressed you do all your videos in 1 take. Very impressive to stay on track that long and deliver that much information in a smooth, coherent way. Not to mention all the difficulties that come along with making sure the camera sees everything. It’s a sign of mastering your craft, for sure. Well done again, as always.
If you have a sling you can also tie the FB Friction Hitch. It is very similar to the Hedden but has enough variation that enables it to be easily broken after it was loaded.
@saltertonswapmeet ok, i saw this comment earlier, and then it was missing and now it's back. I have no idea what's going on... because now I can't see your more recent comments or my responses to it.
John simply amazing,, you forgot more about these knots than most ppl know, certainly myself!!! Love the VERY INFORMATIVE VIDEOS,, keep up the great work,, your helping a lot of us💪💪💪
Really appreciate that. I often will see knot tying videos where the presenter states that they have never actually used it. That's basically just saying: i have nothing you cant learn from someone more knowledgeable. On the other hand, I am tying and using knots today that you won't see for another year or more. And although there is no perfect time to do a video, when I do, you'll get all i know. Cheers.
Excellent. There's some fun experimentation in determining the optimal tuning for it, with variables including the number of wraps, cord diameter, and the load we are going to apply. Feel free to use the Longhorn under basically any friction hitch, and you can create a self tending rope grab.
I am a rope rescue technician and am looking into ascent/descent devices. I will be using this in a srt configuration this week as I climb with a foot and knee ascender. Another climber I work with just purchased a rope wrench to aid in the time it takes to change over to an 8 for descent...can i descend with this hitch reliably once it's been loaded? Or will it not break once it's been loaded? Ideas? I know there must be a practical way to NOT use a device to accomplish this, but I lack the knowledge to execute. The rope wrench shares the load between the clevis hitch in the middle and the device...
I would not recommend this for SRT climbs in light of superior options here on the channel. I haven't done much with SRT demonstrations here on the channel but will supply two options. 1. A Double Michoacán and a Munter: th-cam.com/video/J8y-xl73sMU/w-d-xo.html 2. The 523 "JRB Ascender Hitch in soft bridge mode" and "single rope rappel on the munter friction hitch" . You can find those videos by a quick TH-cam search and the prefix of jrb
I never recommend rappel with friction supplied by a friction hitch. It's only a backup on rappel. Use a Munter, Figure 8, ATC, Rappel Ring etc. Instead
I have seen this referred to as a Bachman hitch, and I have even seen it claimed that it will hold on wire rope. Have you tried this knot on wire rope or other cordage smaller in diameter than the hitch cord? Did it hold? I would love to know if that works or not. Thanks for the great video.
Thx for your comment and support. I am very familiar with the Bachmann friction hitch and am 100% certain that this is not the Bachmann. The Bachmann integrates a carabiner inside the friction hitch, allowing it to move VERY freely when unloaded but very difficult to break under load. It can be tied with webbing or cordage onto a rope of larger diameter. Unlike most friction hitches which work best with a cord approximately 75% of the rope diameter, Bachmann is typically better even smaller, like 50-60% of the rope diameter. As per your question about wire rope, I have never tried anything like that. I have a small length here in my lab and i just tied a Hedden using 4mm Nylon cord onto a Wire cable of 6mm and not surprisingly, it seems to hold. However, my guess is that wire rope would chew thru the cord very quickly. If you meant using wire cable on wire rope, then my guess is that the cable simply won't bend enough to form a Hedden but if you use a thick bodied carabiner which has a diameter greater than the wire rope, well, i suppose a Bachmann might hold. I don't have the materials to test it and would not recommend it for any kind of life safety application.
Thank you jrb, always bringing great concepts to make rope travel more efficient, ergonomic, and specialized. I was interested in the webbing being used.
Thank you sincerely. That's a Sterling 11/16" sling that I got at RockNArbor. Also, I have done quite a bit of climbing on friction hitches constructed out of web slings, particularly the Bachman. It's a criminally smooth hitch, however, in wet conditions, i found it more prone to creep than cordage. When in doubt, add a wrap. Here's the link... and use the JRB10 coupon code for 10% off all your purchases: www.rocknarbor.com/product/sterling-11-16-inch-sling/
This is the first time I’ve ever seen the Hedden knot! I was taught at the alpine club that klemheist tied “upside down” is weaker and dangerous. Yes, my background is climbing. Happy to be wrong and wold love to see some tests, doEd anyone know of any slipping/breaking tests? I’m gonna bounce around on Hedden knots next time I get the chance.
I never heard that but would agree if it doesn't have enough wraps. But with 3 wraps, it's better described as a one directional Prussik. I like it as a backup. But on a non mechanical climb, i prefer my 523 JRB Ascender in soft bridge mode as my primary connection.
John first off , Thanks for all your work. I used the Running JRB Hitch exclusively this past hunting season , it is now my go to system . I would like to incorporate the Hedden Ascender knot tied with webbing , quick question. What length webbing loop would you recommend ?
As I described the "Ascender ", it was built with a length of cord because incorporated both a Hedden and a Longhorn Hitch. I have not attempted one with webbing. I am not saying it can't be done, but you would need to use a length, not a loop of webbing. My sewn loops (runners) are all 60cm or 24in. That's what's used in the video. An 18in would likely be ideal and compact.
It can't be broken under load. So if you don't have something under your feet, you risk getting stuck there. See my video on Self Rescue After Loss of Footing. I showed it on a Distel, but it's the same situation with a Hedden.
Hi Steve. We could use potentially any friction hitch to ascend a rope. There are some painful (to watch) videos of climbing on two Prusiks. But for us, we are simply adding tools to our toolbox so that we can use them in conjunction to accomplish greater things. One of the next videos will use all of a Hedden, JRBAH and a Longhorn in one assembly and I want y'all to have all of those in your toolbox. And no, i wouldn't recommend using this in place of JRBAH for our primary point of connection.
Hi John, I posted another comment in your hedden test video, we can transform this hitch to be workable under load , two ways I found at least I couldn't test them yet but I'm sure it is possible 👍
Appreciate your comment and passion. Experimenting with these hitches is fun! I have also devised variations of this and other hitches to improve performance, but have chosen not to publish them if I am not happy with their performance. With Hedden, and variations which route the bulk of the load to the TOP of the helix, the most difficult test to pass is this: execute an SRT climb on a single hitch, and demonstrate the ability to break the hitch under load in order to transition into rappel. Be aware that the hitch can be in a different state after experiencing the cyclic loading of a 25ft climb than it is without the climb. In summary, I prefer Hedden as a backup not a primary point of connection. Because in an emergency scenario, we can always get our Hedden broken using the techniques demonstrated in the video: Self Rescue After Loss of Footing m
1. I am assuming this is a general question, not related to this video specifically. 2. For anyone reading this who is unfamiliar with the acronym, EDK stands for European Death Knot, a poor name for the Flat Overhand Bend. My opinion on the Flat Overhand Bend is that I don't recommend it for applications where the two strands are being pulled in opposite directions, which is typical with a Bend. However, if we are joining two lengths of cord at a point where they bend over another object like a carabiner, and we want to get it nice and tight, I am okay with the use of this bend. I do use it, and I typically back it up with a 2nd double Overhand.
Hey John thanks again for this and your other videos. They have been very informative and you teach it so well. This is where I learned the Hedden so wanted to share this here. I’m still learning what works best and for the rope and hitch cord I happen to be using (1/2 static with 7mm both stiff) I have been most comfortable using Hedden with 3 wraps. What I have recently found is that instead of bringing ends through loop at bottom I give an extra wrap and bring loop through the bottom wrap and then I put my ends through. Doing so it definitely grabs quicker and better and seems to release better as well. With good rope and cord this may be too much but for what I have this has so far worked really well. I don’t have much cord to work with yet so haven’t had the opportunity to do much more than a simple hitch but look forward to doing so soon. Thanks again, you’re shared knowledge has been much appreciated.
Jeff, that sounds remarkably similar to something I have been using. I even posted a photo of it on some forums recently to try to assess if it's a named knot. Do me a favor pls: take a photo of it and send it to me. If you're in my JRB Tree Climbing Facebook group, you can post it there. Otherwise, leave me a comment on my website and I will reply by email.
That Hedden knot is basically the overhand knot of friction hitches. It's a real no brainer. Thx for bringing it to my/our attention. So many practical uses. Throwing in the bull hitch at the beginning of the Hedden is just the kind of innovation I've come to expect from you. Great stuff! 👍
Appreciate that Mike. There are so many friction hitches that were here before me, and I have tried to check them all out... and for whatever reason, the Hedden appears to lack the appropriate amount of recognition. Its super useful. My next video will show how to use one in a practical application, and use in conjunction with a JRB Ascender. Thx for your comment and support.
Hedden. I can remember that one. Easy to do. Good ! Adrian; UK/England
I love this video! I spent hours watching videos that kept telling me to buy expensive brand name hand ascenders, only to watch this and realize they were all a waste of time. I've now tied your version on my climbing rope for my morning climb
Sparky, thanks for the comment. Be aware that the idea of putting a compactly tied Longhorn under any 2 strand friction hitch will turn it into a Hand Ascender. For example, I stuck it under the Agile Hitch also. I recommend trying both the Hedden and the Agile Hitch as a Hand Ascender and pls let me know which one you like best. Cheers
th-cam.com/video/FU1iG9Im7Gc/w-d-xo.html
Link to Agile Hitch
As I am watching my own video for the first time, the Hedden tied in webbing was tied with 4 wraps, not 3. My excuse is that I was too distracted trying to stay in the field of view while self filming that I forgot how to count!!
Was just about to ask this! I spent a few minutes watching back and counting and comparing to the rope version. At least you were consistent, it was tied with 4 wraps before the video started also!
@@HuckFTW i truly do my best but failed to catch that when i played it back for editing... and if ya noticed, it was one continuous take, and so my only edits were captions.
@@jrbtc yeah I’m always impressed you do all your videos in 1 take. Very impressive to stay on track that long and deliver that much information in a smooth, coherent way. Not to mention all the difficulties that come along with making sure the camera sees everything. It’s a sign of mastering your craft, for sure. Well done again, as always.
No worries you’re meticulous in everything you do. That and using cordage vs metal is what brings me to the channel.
If you have a sling you can also tie the FB Friction Hitch. It is very similar to the Hedden but has enough variation that enables it to be easily broken after it was loaded.
@saltertonswapmeet ok, i saw this comment earlier, and then it was missing and now it's back. I have no idea what's going on... because now I can't see your more recent comments or my responses to it.
Is there a vid about using a Heddon to attach a tree stick ?
@bobray1010 no, i don't like the Hedden for that application because it's very hard to break it under tension. Use a Longhorn Agile or JRB Ascender
John simply amazing,, you forgot more about these knots than most ppl know, certainly myself!!! Love the VERY INFORMATIVE VIDEOS,, keep up the great work,, your helping a lot of us💪💪💪
Really appreciate that. I often will see knot tying videos where the presenter states that they have never actually used it. That's basically just saying: i have nothing you cant learn from someone more knowledgeable. On the other hand, I am tying and using knots today that you won't see for another year or more. And although there is no perfect time to do a video, when I do, you'll get all i know. Cheers.
@@jrbtc YOU KNOW YOUR STUFF,, CANT BEAT A MAN @ HIS OWN GAME,, HAPPY 2023
A server nice knot to learn, new to me.
And, a very nice improvisation with the Bull Hitch
Excellent. There's some fun experimentation in determining the optimal tuning for it, with variables including the number of wraps, cord diameter, and the load we are going to apply. Feel free to use the Longhorn under basically any friction hitch, and you can create a self tending rope grab.
Nice engineering!
Thanks for all the knowledge John. I hope you had a good New-years.
U2 brother. Appreciate the support.
I am a rope rescue technician and am looking into ascent/descent devices. I will be using this in a srt configuration this week as I climb with a foot and knee ascender. Another climber I work with just purchased a rope wrench to aid in the time it takes to change over to an 8 for descent...can i descend with this hitch reliably once it's been loaded? Or will it not break once it's been loaded? Ideas? I know there must be a practical way to NOT use a device to accomplish this, but I lack the knowledge to execute. The rope wrench shares the load between the clevis hitch in the middle and the device...
I would not recommend this for SRT climbs in light of superior options here on the channel. I haven't done much with SRT demonstrations here on the channel but will supply two options.
1. A Double Michoacán and a Munter: th-cam.com/video/J8y-xl73sMU/w-d-xo.html
2. The 523 "JRB Ascender Hitch in soft bridge mode" and "single rope rappel on the munter friction hitch" . You can find those videos by a quick TH-cam search and the prefix of jrb
I never recommend rappel with friction supplied by a friction hitch. It's only a backup on rappel. Use a Munter, Figure 8, ATC, Rappel Ring etc. Instead
Awesome John.
Thx Paul!
I have seen this referred to as a Bachman hitch, and I have even seen it claimed that it will hold on wire rope. Have you tried this knot on wire rope or other cordage smaller in diameter than the hitch cord? Did it hold? I would love to know if that works or not.
Thanks for the great video.
Thx for your comment and support. I am very familiar with the Bachmann friction hitch and am 100% certain that this is not the Bachmann. The Bachmann integrates a carabiner inside the friction hitch, allowing it to move VERY freely when unloaded but very difficult to break under load. It can be tied with webbing or cordage onto a rope of larger diameter. Unlike most friction hitches which work best with a cord approximately 75% of the rope diameter, Bachmann is typically better even smaller, like 50-60% of the rope diameter. As per your question about wire rope, I have never tried anything like that. I have a small length here in my lab and i just tied a Hedden using 4mm Nylon cord onto a Wire cable of 6mm and not surprisingly, it seems to hold. However, my guess is that wire rope would chew thru the cord very quickly. If you meant using wire cable on wire rope, then my guess is that the cable simply won't bend enough to form a Hedden but if you use a thick bodied carabiner which has a diameter greater than the wire rope, well, i suppose a Bachmann might hold. I don't have the materials to test it and would not recommend it for any kind of life safety application.
Thank you jrb, always bringing great concepts to make rope travel more efficient, ergonomic, and specialized. I was interested in the webbing being used.
Thank you sincerely. That's a Sterling 11/16" sling that I got at RockNArbor. Also, I have done quite a bit of climbing on friction hitches constructed out of web slings, particularly the Bachman. It's a criminally smooth hitch, however, in wet conditions, i found it more prone to creep than cordage. When in doubt, add a wrap. Here's the link... and use the JRB10 coupon code for 10% off all your purchases:
www.rocknarbor.com/product/sterling-11-16-inch-sling/
This is the first time I’ve ever seen the Hedden knot! I was taught at the alpine club that klemheist tied “upside down” is weaker and dangerous. Yes, my background is climbing. Happy to be wrong and wold love to see some tests, doEd anyone know of any slipping/breaking tests? I’m gonna bounce around on Hedden knots next time I get the chance.
I never heard that but would agree if it doesn't have enough wraps. But with 3 wraps, it's better described as a one directional Prussik. I like it as a backup. But on a non mechanical climb, i prefer my 523 JRB Ascender in soft bridge mode as my primary connection.
Great video
John first off , Thanks for all your work.
I used the Running JRB Hitch exclusively this past hunting season , it is now my go to system . I would like to incorporate the Hedden Ascender knot tied with webbing , quick question. What length webbing loop would you recommend ?
As I described the "Ascender ", it was built with a length of cord because incorporated both a Hedden and a Longhorn Hitch. I have not attempted one with webbing. I am not saying it can't be done, but you would need to use a length, not a loop of webbing. My sewn loops (runners) are all 60cm or 24in. That's what's used in the video. An 18in would likely be ideal and compact.
Cant i go back down tree with the hedden knot
It can't be broken under load. So if you don't have something under your feet, you risk getting stuck there. See my video on Self Rescue After Loss of Footing. I showed it on a Distel, but it's the same situation with a Hedden.
Is this a possible JRB Ascender hitch variant?
Hi Steve. We could use potentially any friction hitch to ascend a rope. There are some painful (to watch) videos of climbing on two Prusiks. But for us, we are simply adding tools to our toolbox so that we can use them in conjunction to accomplish greater things. One of the next videos will use all of a Hedden, JRBAH and a Longhorn in one assembly and I want y'all to have all of those in your toolbox. And no, i wouldn't recommend using this in place of JRBAH for our primary point of connection.
Hi John, I posted another comment in your hedden test video, we can transform this hitch to be workable under load , two ways I found at least
I couldn't test them yet but I'm sure it is possible 👍
Appreciate your comment and passion. Experimenting with these hitches is fun! I have also devised variations of this and other hitches to improve performance, but have chosen not to publish them if I am not happy with their performance. With Hedden, and variations which route the bulk of the load to the TOP of the helix, the most difficult test to pass is this: execute an SRT climb on a single hitch, and demonstrate the ability to break the hitch under load in order to transition into rappel. Be aware that the hitch can be in a different state after experiencing the cyclic loading of a 25ft climb than it is without the climb. In summary, I prefer Hedden as a backup not a primary point of connection. Because in an emergency scenario, we can always get our Hedden broken using the techniques demonstrated in the video: Self Rescue After Loss of Footing m
Thanks for sharing. 👍
Thx. Happy to share.
First time viewing and found it interesting. I know the prusik and clemhist for tarps, but nothing for climbing
There are many... but check out the Playlist for the JRB Ascender Hitch. It's complex to tie but does things that I didn't think were possible.
Nice assender
Would you use a EDK instead of hunters bend?
1. I am assuming this is a general question, not related to this video specifically. 2. For anyone reading this who is unfamiliar with the acronym, EDK stands for European Death Knot, a poor name for the Flat Overhand Bend. My opinion on the Flat Overhand Bend is that I don't recommend it for applications where the two strands are being pulled in opposite directions, which is typical with a Bend. However, if we are joining two lengths of cord at a point where they bend over another object like a carabiner, and we want to get it nice and tight, I am okay with the use of this bend. I do use it, and I typically back it up with a 2nd double Overhand.
Hey John thanks again for this and your other videos. They have been very informative and you teach it so well. This is where I learned the Hedden so wanted to share this here. I’m still learning what works best and for the rope and hitch cord I happen to be using (1/2 static with 7mm both stiff) I have been most comfortable using Hedden with 3 wraps. What I have recently found is that instead of bringing ends through loop at bottom I give an extra wrap and bring loop through the bottom wrap and then I put my ends through. Doing so it definitely grabs quicker and better and seems to release better as well. With good rope and cord this may be too much but for what I have this has so far worked really well. I don’t have much cord to work with yet so haven’t had the opportunity to do much more than a simple hitch but look forward to doing so soon. Thanks again, you’re shared knowledge has been much appreciated.
Jeff, that sounds remarkably similar to something I have been using. I even posted a photo of it on some forums recently to try to assess if it's a named knot. Do me a favor pls: take a photo of it and send it to me. If you're in my JRB Tree Climbing Facebook group, you can post it there. Otherwise, leave me a comment on my website and I will reply by email.
👍👍👍👍👍👍