People don't even look at their payload when they are trying to determine the suitability of their trucks to tow. It is a huge uphill battle to get them to even give a passing thought to how any modification might affect that ability.
YES! I live in Northeast Texas. I either see lifted duallys on aftermarket wheels and tires(never towing) or 3/4 tons towing bulldozers and the rear bumper is almost on the ground.
and he did not even get into other regulations that are not even a blip on the radar to most these days. Things like head light height, bumper height, overall width, open tires beyond fenders, market light colors and placement. There are regulations to all of these things in most states. The worst are the jeeps with those red day time running lights that go around the headlights. 100 percent illegal in all states for on road use. It looks like a set of tail lights coming at you at night. What he talks about is why I absolutely do not buy used trucks with any modifications that are not factory. Same goes for motorcycles, boats, cars..... but we are talking trucks here.
Bingo. And this is exactly why most modern half-tons suck, especially the higher trim ones. Payload is garbage. You'll never get anywhere near your max tow capacity because of it. Might as well get a mid-size where those two numbers are much more likely to sync up. If you want to tow anything decent-sized, just get an HD.
@@user-tb7rn1il3q my F-150 payload sticker says 2060lbs. Aint no way I'm loading my truck up with 4-6k, that's just asking for something to bend or break.
I've watched TFL for years and I can honestly say that it is one of the best channels. Not only is it entertaining, it is highly informative. So many people travel unsafe. I get slack from many when going on trips because I pay attention to GVWR, payload, GCWR, my axle ratings, etc... but in the end, the outcome of not paying attention to these highly important metrics is the difference between breaking down, getting stranded or even causing injury to yourself or others. Excellent episode!
Lifted, leveled with giant hooptie wheels and tires is common. Folks will sacrifice everything for the look they want. I asked someone why he modded his truck. He said, “I don’t want my truck to look like an old mans truck.”
@@danielbonner8309 I spent a chunk on lighting upgrades on my truck. Went from standard to LEDs. Good upgrades. Yes, I have my headlights properly adjusted so that nobody bright lights me.
@@MrOiram46 the tire shops love to sell the clown rubber band tires a rim combo. They have a room off the shop area that they throw those bent up rims into a pile. All it takes is a pothole and they are garbage. The guys take them to the scrap yard, then split the cash😝
Another thing people don’t think about is when they put on bigger tires, the speedometer and odometer are off. Unless they do something to correct it, it throws the vehicle speed and actual mileage off. Also, too much lift without compensating will put strain on your front CV joints, affect the driveshaft angles, etc.
Don't forget the gearing. Modifying any part of your vehicle can put stresses on other parts that exceed design specifications. Before I lightly modded my '04 Mach 1 with a tune, cat-back exhaust and suspension bits I looked up and talked to Scott Hoag, the program manager of the 2002 1/2 Bullit and 2003-2004 Mach 1 Mustangs. I ran everything past him before I touched my car. My aftermarket wheels and tires weigh less than OEM and the tires have the exact outside diameter as factory. Even though I'm running a staggered set up the outside diameter of the front and rear tires is identical. My front wheels have the same offset as factory and the front tires are the same size as factory. I didn't mess up the handling or the geometry of the front suspension.
That is relatively minor all things considered. What is much more important when adding a bigger wheel, is the significant increase in stopping distance.
Such a dated comment. Any reputable manufacturer (Bora, Spidertrax) who makes a hubcentric spacer is more than fine. Yeah sure if you are running 3” spacers from Alibaba, that’s one thing. I’ve used 1” Bora on two trucks with over 75,000 miles and never had a single issue or premature wear
Good info guys. As the former owner of a Tacoma it seems that the aficionados of that platform (hello overlanding?) are some of the most obvious offenders for these issues. Doing the math: given the 950 pound payload (which my truck had), over half of that is taken up by a fiberglass shell, the driver and one passenger. After one extended camping trip in an admittedly overloaded condition, I was very ready to move onward and upward in size. My current F250 may be considered "overkill" for someone who doesn't plan on towing heavy bud I'd rather err in this direction than be caught short.
I bought a Tacoma planning to tow 5800#. TRD OR with dealer installed running boards. The first time I rolled onto a scale with that setup, I got a shock. With nothing buy me and a full tank of gas in the truck, set up perfectly with 600# on the hitch, I was 20# under the GVWR. I spent years rolling around with the back seat removed because I needed the extra 80# of payload capacity. A Ranger or Colorado could do better, and the 2024 Tacoma has better payload, but I've had enough of being right on the limits, so when a drunk totalled my Tacoma, I stepped up to a full size.
@@coreyisapushover 20# under the GVWR was with my car on the trailer and nothing but me and gas in the truck. 80# won't break the truck - but it can make a difference when you roll into Love's to weigh in with a Tacoma pulling a compact TLB, several implements, and a box of tools, the Smokey writing up an overloaded hotshot turns around, looks at you sideways, and blocks you in to see your sheet after he's done with the hotshot. He was planning to weigh me himself to give me a warning. He knew I was overweight, but since I was weighing in, at least I was not oblivious to it. But I was 40# under GVWR. So instead of a warning, he shook his head and said that if he wasn't looking at a CAT sheet, he wouldn't believe I could tow it. Anyway, not a problem for me now. I snagged a 3 yr old Powerstroke F-150 with 45k on the odo for less than the 7 year old Tacoma payed out. Now I only worry about overloading the trailer.
@liftedsafari 80# may not. Notice he said by himself he was at GVWR. Ever want a passenger, got forbid 2 since everyone needs these 4 door trucks. Point is these little trucks just aren't really up to task if that’s yer planned normal use. Get a full size with the appropriate ratings.
@@chublez I see where you get the idea, but I don't people to read what I wrote and go waste their money. The point we are making is that the 2nd and 3rd gen have terrible payload capacity and many Taco owners do not realize they are overloaded! But the Taco did the job for me. It had more limitations than I expected, so I was passenger and cargo restricted while towing. A functional perspective, a Ranger or Colorado would have been completely adequate with few limitations. I towed heavy only a few dozen times over the Taco's life. 90% of it's use was grocery runs. So the limitation was that I didn't take my dog with me to the Tractor dealer... The Tacoma was -exactly- the right choice from a financial perspective because it had a lower cost and held value better than a dollar bill over it's ownership period. I have a full size truck now because I got one on the cheap - 2 years old and it cost less than insurance paid out for the Tacoma. If I were buying new, I probably would get a Ranger. I hate to see people wasting money on full size trucks they don't actually need - especially at current prices(!). For many people, it's a terrible financial choice with long term consequences.
The engineers created the truck a certain way in order to optimize its structural longevity and overall performance. I have lifted and/or leveled almost every truck I have owned. The added height combined with a larger wheel and tire looked great but any advantages gained from the lift were eventually lost in unnecessary mechanical component wear and tear, coupled with deviation of the factory steering and handling. IMO, staying stock is the better choice.
Good news is that 95% of people that lift and modify their trucks never take them off-road or tow/haul anything. Worst obstacle they see is a curb or speed bump, but braking can be problematic in a emergency if much larger tires are fitted.
Take your lifted truck and park it 90 degrees to your vehicle your wife, and kids if applicable, rides in and see where the truck will hit the other vehicle. Now decide whether a lifted truck on the road with your loved ones is a great idea.
@bruceleroy1143 subarus work good in the snow....till it gets more than a few inches deep and then you need the truck with the ground clearance to pull you out... I help you guys out all winter.
The only "mods" I've made to my 2002 Silverado 1500HD were adding step rails to assist with climbing in and out of the cab, a 2013 step corner rear bumper to replace the rusted-out bumper, LED fog lamps, and tow mirrors with heating capability. None of these affected the truck at all, but definitely helps with climbing in or out of the cabin or the bed. I was told that I "should" lift my truck to "make it look so much more cooler," and thankfully, I never followed through with the trouble of lifting it. The reliability of the truck is what I wanted, and it's performed quite well when towing/hauling reasonable loads. Never mind the fact that the 6.0L V8 is a gas guzzler with the 4L80E and 3.73 (I think... Got the spec sheet somewhere and my old mind is starting to slip a lil...) gear axle ratio, it's a solid daily driver that's kept giving me performance without question. Needs a bit of work since it was a former Ohio plow truck, but wouldn't trade it in for anything else. Thank you, André, for this VERY informative episode because it keeps me grounded in my decision to NOT lift the truck or put bigger tires on it. 🙂
These are some of the best trucks made. They don't get great gas mileage but they are reliable. Mine is a 04 and has over 400,000 miles on it now with just a transmission replacement.
It also astonishes me how many people add a bunch of weight to their rigs and never touch the brakes. It's often ignored in favor of performance or cosmetic upgrades, but your vehicle still has to slow down and stop effectively, particularly on mountain passes.
You should see the Shelby pickup trucks.... 700+HP and the brakes are untouched Ford F150 brakes..... Seems to me that for $125K, they would put bigger brakes and better calipers and not just some cheap plastic covers over the calipers ...
@@BrandonBaecker no its not how do you figure i dont speed and i dont ride asses in front of me in a freak incident sure but in normal driving conditions drive right and theres no need for you too stomp your brakes i literally do this daily and have had no issues for the last two yrs and i drive up and down I45 south of dallas daily.
@@BrandonBaecker i stated hardly that doesnt consist of NEVER come on if youve had a exhaust brake you know exactly what i mean loaded or unloaded they are amazing thus why i made that comment standard gas engines are not equipped i get that but thats why i said my Cummins and i know they use there 2500 cummins in this video some as well
Spending time on Reddit forums, people really don’t care about towing safety. People laughed at me when I suggested they weigh their rig at a cat scale because I said it looks improperly distributed.
Great topic! So many people won’t give it a second thought. I’ve even heard people say that lifting their truck makes it stronger so it can tow more. Although I know better, I’ve never been able to explain it. Now, I’ll just send them to watch this video!
The single most limiting and defining aspect on a trucks GVWR is its braking power. Larger tires are more leverage and momentum on your brakes to stop the vehicle and you have to be cognizant of how hard you are making your brakes work with how you load your truck. The tires can carry 14000 lbs on a SRW truck, but no truck is rated that high because of its braking limitations. The axles are strong enough to carry more weight, the frame is built to support well over design load, and the truck will let you know if you start to overheat it. Braking is the factor you have no warning and only a weight rating to go by on how effective that system is. If you do any mods, find an empty road and test your brakes, see how they changed. Lockup power, distances and to ensure it doesn’t totally fail under a high load situation.
I deal with a lot of Hot Shotters, it's crazy to me when they arrive in a lifted 3/4 or 1 ton. With big ass tires. I have tried to explain to the drivers several of the points that have brought up in this video. They don't care. Drive away with 7k load max on a goose neck, their ass end sagging like I loaded them with twice the weight. Honestly scares me more that DOT does nothing about it
The big tires kill the braking power from leverage and extra momentum. Most trucks don't have enough braking power to lock them up on dry pavement when you load up to the sticker max with a short stock size tire. Add a taller tire and tow CDL loads like these idiots and you know they are gonna run over a kid some day.
This video stopped me from getting larger tires for my f250 with a slide in truck camper. Thank you. 1-2 inches of extra clearance doesn't sound worth the consequences.
if you get stuck in the middle of nowhere and have to pay thousands of dollars to get a tow and/or youre out of water or freezing to death you might have wished you had the taller tires
@@carlholland3819 true but I've yet to go anywhere that extreme... i would get larger tires if I wasn't already at GVWR fully loaded. Don't really have much wiggle room to play with.
Off-set wheel spacing is really hard on wheel bearings. The load is no longer directed over the bearing and instead there is a prying effect on the bearings over what it was designed for.
The worst is when you can see the brakes inboard of the wheel, unprotected, because of ridiculous wheel offset. I'd swear the guys that do that can't possibly wrench themselves because they clearly don't understand leverage.
If you are towing the lower the ratio of trailer to tow rating the better. If you are above 75% of the rated tow rating you are getting close to the point where you need a bigger truck. Even without vehicle modifications.
I like running my stock size tires. Better mileage, handling and acceleration. I didn't buy my truck to feel beefy or macho 😂 some people their vehicle becomes their personality though
Many do. There's a reason why so many tucks are sold, but almost none are used as trucks. Add to that how people in tucks react to sports cars. While one might think it would be young kids in small cars that wants to race, it is often guys in trucks having something to prove.
i have a 14 ram 3500hd single cab srw that is lifted with 33s and i use it for plowing/salting. it has a payload of 2 ton and up until this year i would put the 2 yd sander on the tailgate leaving a few feet for salt bags. i would have a 9 foot plow on the front, about 30 50lb salt bags and 2 yd of salt/sand. that would put the total added weight anywhere from 5k-6klbs. the truck handled it like it wasnt even there, kinda. if it werent for the truck having a leveling kit anyway. so yea, loaded up like that it did squat a bit. never felt unsafe driving it around though. i dont carry salt bags anymore so now a days im closer to 4-5klbs. been doing this for quite a few years now no problem. i do plan on adding super springs though to reduce squat.
I see a lot of yahoos around here with lifted one ton diesels pulling 5th wheels. The truck is squatted badly, and the front axle of the 5th wheel is off the ground putting much of the trailer weight on the rear axle, the axle that usually doesn't have trailer brakes, or has them also, reducing the stopping power to zero if no rear axle trailer brakes or 50% with. Back 30 years ago, the rating on a truck was based on a stripped single cab work truck, no frills. Add a back seat or an extended cab, penalize weight capacity; add 4x4, penalize more. Add fancy interior, heavy tires, bumpers, step rails. before ya know it, you have NO hauling capacity.
Anecdotally most guys lift trucks and install bigger wheels with more negative offset and bigger tires for the look. That’s great - if you’re in high school cruising the mall - but as said by experts in the video you may be risking safety and liability. Folks who actually use their trucks off-road can make a good argument for more capability but might want to consider a rig factory designed to meet their needs.
I blame the poor education system of not teaching physics properly. If you look at that picture 21:18 they physics would dictate in an emergency breaking scenario the trailer would push down even more on the tongue and therefore Lift the front end off the road removing all ability to steer and control the truck. Driver is just along for the ride at that point.
Issues you skipped.... Worth thinking about. This one affects handling and steering. The leverage ratio changes on the springs on ifs when lift spacers are added. The spring rate will change. Also usually maxes out the camber adjuster at about 2 inches of lift, making alignments difficult. The wheel spacer or offset affects the scrub radius of the wheel and lever ratio on the spring in the ifs components. . Wheel spacer or offset changes this as well as bearing load. The sway bar ratio is also changed this is on just ifs set ups. Now you can see how much this can vastly affect handling, but there are things you can do. I have more, but this is enough to get you thinking.
Of all of my friends with trucks I only knew one to actually haul stuff around. He also had a lifted truck, dude had a ramp cause the bed was so high he couldn’t lift heavy objects into it lmfao. He also had a little step installed by the doors to get into the car. It was so silly. Trucks are for hauling and work… raising the bed makes all of that harder. That’s like purposely modding a sports car to be less aerodynamic or to drive slower. Makes zero sense
30+ years as a tech, several at an ORI retailer, trucks left stock, wheels, tires, suspension always last longer, get better fuel economy, and have less wheel bearing, brake transmission, and steering component wear. It's just the facts.
A good set of all terrain tires will get 99% of truck drivers where they need to go. I have a ranch with pretty rugged terrain and my Ram and F250 tow and go everywhere I need them to go. Zero lift or leveling. Lifted trucks are for show only. If you wanna look cool or do roofing sales then by all means lift that shit.
One of the things that gets me is in the RV industry how clueless they are on towing at the dealerships. The camper we upgraded to two years ago ended up being 250 pounds heavier on the tongue weight than advertised. That seems to be common among the industry. I ended up having to get larger weight distribution bars, and I modified my truck with a class five hitch on an F150 and heavier duty springs. Deals to say, I have Max out the capacity of my truck because of the camper
RV sales know the load ratings are an impediment to sales. It’s more profitable to them to make the a sale than downgrade the trailer specifications to suit the tow vehicle specifications.
I have never understood lifting a truck. They have people with Phds to figure out the best and most efficient way for a truck to be configured. And here comes some mouth breather with some kit to make them higher off the ground. If you want to go off the road to that degree get an ATV.
Its crazy to me that folks think these vehicles are just thrown together. The amount of R&D and engineering involved is insane. To think you can bolt on some silly cheap accessories, cold air intakes, spaces, blocks, huge tires, turbos, straight pipe exhausts, suspension parts, or chips and figure there, i made it better! Lol gotta be sensible in what you’re doing… add beefier but stock parts, or actual possibly needed improvement upgrades like catch cans or any OEM upgrades. Even with things like catch cans you gotta be careful… especially living in colder climates or with watching your maintenance intervals.
It looks like this video has crushed a lot of bro-dozing hearts out there. But don't worry, there will always be those idiots that want to drive a two-story house down the street with 40" tires, and soot blowing out of the tailpipe.
@@302Mustang13 What I find funny is that my 1993 JDM off-road van is typically taller than most of these idiots.... I'm looking down on them, which is hilarious.
It is crazy how much so many truck buyers spend on their trucks to make them look more capable but actually make them less capable. They will argue about performance specs or capabilities between brands while the entire time not considering how much they have cut those very same capabilities. They reduce stability with lift kits raising the center of gravity only to gain minimal additional ground clearance they will rarely if ever need, add constant stress to the engine and transmission by changing the torque dynamics with larger tires, and reduce payload by adding weight all over the place. They may look "bad ass", but they are wimps compared to the same stock truck.
I had an image in my head of the person who would write this crap would look like. I clicked your profile and checked out your tractor video. I Pretty spot on.
I drive a 2022 F350 along with two additional 4x4 vehicles, own and use two construction backhoes, heat my home with firewood I harvest and split, own four welders and five chainsaws. I literally poured 59 yards of concrete last week myself with crew. Not sure what you do on a regular basis, but I'm sure my 13 year old video to sell a lawn tractor says very little about my life, skills, or ability to have a reasonable opinion on the subject of wasting money on trucks for little, if any, return on investment other than mental.
Listen, Budget Eric Weinstein. I drive a 2006 dodge 2500 4x4, with 2 additional 4x4 vehicles (lifted), Own and use 1 tractor, heat my home with firewood that falls on my acreage, I own 1 welder, 7 grinders, 3 chainsaws. 4 Horses, 20 acres. I raise and slaughter livestock my family eats. I didn't pour any concrete lately but I put a roof on. I just lifted a 94 4runner 2" in my garage. replaced the rear axle seals, bearings and tone ring, myself. Your comment about not wasting money on trucks for little while also driving a 2022 is laughable. What happened to your old truck? did you break it from lack of maintenance? Do you even know how to do maintenance on a vehicle?@@polobbie
O.K. So it is established. You and I are not pansies. I can disagree while respecting your position on the matter. My point was that you could not possibly know what I may or may not know about jacking up vehicles a few inches based on my 13 year old lawn tractor video. BTW - I've bought used all my life and like to hold on to vehicles, but finally decided I could afford to splurge once in my life. @@schlomoshekelstein908
What a nice time of the video 😮. Ruined my build. Bought Roush Performance Fox 2.0 kit a couple of weeks ago. ($2,100 + 1K CAD for installation) Keeping factory tire size and 1.75” of lift instead of 2”. And yes, best decision ever !!!!😊
A good friend of mine had 2018 Roush built 5.0L F150. Fox coil overs 34" tires. It was a great truck for most part, except at towing. I have a 2019 Trailboss , stock but 33.5" tires. My friend and I have identical 7700lbs travel trailers, my truck tows it well. The F150 does not.
Andre, valuable information that we all seem to forget. One big one you missed is max towing w/o a WD hitch. There are F-150s that can tow over 10K but the hitch is limited to 5K by Ford. Meaning, if you want to tow 6K trailer, you are required to use a WD hitch. GM and Ram are the same. They really like to hide that fact because it's not easy to market. It would be good to discuss this when you conduct Ike tests as you regularly max the towing.
@@302Mustang13 Yep. The bumpers can handle 5K MAX. The hitch can handle more but only with a WD system. They always hide that info. You'll find out when a rental facility won't rent you an excavator because of your hitch.
This is plainly spelled out in the f150 owners manual. My XLT can tow 11k with a wd hitch, but is limited to 7k with a normal receiver hitch. Mine is a 2023 power boost
@@toskin6395 Sorry, even your Powerboost is limited to 5K not 7K without WD. Look at the chart on page 9 of the Ford F-150 towing supplement. I know, they hide that crap which is wrong...
At some point you just have to admit, you didn't buy your truck to do typical truck things. So why did you buy the full size thats as tall and as long as a school bus? So you dont get laughed at by the "full size truck community" who laugh at owners of the Santa Cruz, Maverick, Ridgeline, Ranger and Dakota. Oddly they carry air in an empty bed just as easily. But you added 24x14 wheels rubberband tires (315/30-24) 2" spacers, rock lights and a 4" lift and the front end is higher than the rear. Now youre laughed at by everyone else not in a "Brodozer"
As an owner of a lifted truck i can tell you that as i have aged gettin in and out is no fun. The ride is not as nice on mud tires and long drives wear you out bc good luck getting a proper alignment from any shop! My next truck will be an older (no def)low milage diesel with factory suspension.
I love the Kevlar brake pads that I got put on my '16 Ram 1500 Quadcab 4wd Ecodiesel. I also got the 3.92 ratio, expecting to put 1"-1.5" larger tires on the truck. I put Bilstein 4600 shocks on the rear with a 2" taller rear spring. Bilstein 5100 shocks set up to lift 2" went on the front. I have added a Ranch Hand bumper on the front. And a camper shell on the back. The worn out front control arms have been replaced with beefier parts from Ready Lift and Mevotech. I use this truck for interstate highway travel in any weather and some mild overland adventures. Our 2018 Ram 2500 Crewcab 4wd with the beastly 6.7L, carries a Hawk model 4wheel popup camper. For now we have Bilstein shocks, upgraded brake pads, PPE transmission oil pan, and the Bank's Monster Ram air horn to avoid the dreaded grid heater bolt failure. We look forward to an AED lift kit in the future, and a gear change for 35" tires. The payload recommendation. Also takes in consideration the likelyhood of more aggressive driving in harsh conditions, after the modifications.
Sad thing is (at least here in NC) people are modifying 3/4 and 1 tons and occasionally using them for “work”. I’ve regularly seen these pulling skid steers etc I really unsafe conditions. 2 years ago a child was killed in a Raleigh Christmas parade when a severely modded truck lost control pulling a trailer. I’m not sure exactly what went wrong but a stock truck would have never done what I saw on the video.
Oh dude tell me about it. I’m in NC too, and I haven’t seen it as bad in any other state than NC, and I’m literally from Texas lol. You see dummies that “Carolina squat” their trucks and still freakin tow with them! Like how dumb do you have to be to do that lol. I remember that accident in Raleigh; and the thing is here they do really trashy mods, not nice mods. Typical southern culture lol.
If you dont know why the incident happend, how do you know a stock truck would never do that ? The problem was Brake failure due to rusted lines. Now you tell me does any person in the rust belt have the same problem on a stock truck . A diesel has enough power to pull 30k plus pounds so parking brakes won't stop anything. He was going at idel speed and couldn't get it to come to a complete stop. Even honked and yelled and people stood by and took no action just watched a truck run them over at 5 mph
Not to forget about that parade in Raleigh nc. Dudes modified truck pulling a parade float brakes failed and killed a person when the truck couldn't stop
@@therealmccoy9031 he may have said that. but that truck was as clean, shiny and chromed out like a disco ball. More likely shoddy work. A truck with the stance/wheels and mods done to it had no business towing.
Having spent 20 years involved in the heavy truck industry with the last 15 directly involved in specifying trucks doing very heavy vocational work, (twin steer tri drive, planetary 45ton rear axles etc etc) can someone explain why the GAWR’s of pickup truck axles can add up to a number greater than the GVWR? How this math works in the little truck world would be an interesting video subject. I honestly don’t know. As far as the “blame the sales person” mantra - I bought a new slide in truck camper. When I fell in love with my chosen camper in the showroom the next question from the sales person was “What truck…?” on delivery the dealership presented me with a document to sign that stated I would install said camper on a truck with sufficient payload and wheelbase to carry the camper with the centre of gravity in an approved location, along with instructions on weighing the truck and camper with respect to calculating safe trailer weights.
I would imagine you still have to meet the GVWR. The GAWR is so you don’t overload an axle and put all of the GVWR on one axle. So if you max one axle out you better run less over the other axle to still be within GVWR.
It will never cease to amaze me that anyone would spend the amount of money it takes to buy a truck and modify it without a plan, but clearly it happens. 🤷♂️ I examined payload and GVWR capacities based on trim levels, and considered tire sizes, gear ratios, and intended accessory weights before I even started hitting dealerships to get my truck ordered.
Funny, people think they look tougher... It's changed almost all of the geometry, brakes, c.g., acceleration, cooling, gearing.... everything. The exact opposite of the image is what you actually get.
This reminds me of the episode of the guy who had the Gladiator built, completely maxed out. The guy was laughing that it weighed 9000 lbs after all the mods were done. That thing is a rolling disaster waiting to happen. Australia has some very tight restrictions on 4x4 vehicles down there. Be considered lucky that none of that has come here…….. yet.
TFL and Andre , great job. Somtimes im pretty hard on you guy's, but this time you nailed it. I'm a 23 year automotive professional. I've done it all OEM, aftermarket, performance, and lifted trucks. The past 10 years have focused on modifications of trucks. I'm very conservative in my builds for the reasons in this video. Being a dealership we also have to deal with the people whom want to claim warranty when they have overloaded their vehicles. It's very difficult to explain to people the possible negative side effects when they modify their trucks. Excellent work with the interviews.
A normal Ford F-150 is 14000lbs vs a Raptor 8200lbs. Lifted suspension + 35s. A Raptor can only tow 500lbs more than my Audi Q7. I also think leveling kits are dumb as the decrease mpg and are harder on front end wear.
@@jacobhaugk5908 I got a zone lift kit at 111k miles and my lower ball joints went out at 145k maybe 150k miles I question if it was the lift kit that led to that regardless, I wouldn’t lift again
@Kylewraps there are so many components out there so it's hard to determine good va bad. But even at stock height I'd always recommend upgrading components for your suspension that are stronger. Only reason my truck has all new stuff at 121k is cause some lower side swiped me
@@jacobhaugk5908 the thing is we have other Silverados one with 290k miles and I think it’s on the original ball joints so I think that answers my question
I've got a copy of a letter from FoMoCo to Ford dealers dated 2004 advising them not to install oversized wheels and tires or lifts on new pickup trucks unless the parts are Ford or Ford Performance and warning that such modifications affect acceleration, braking and handling and can put severe stress in excess of design limits on other parts of the trucks. The letter stated FoMoCo would not warrant claims that could be traced to these modifications.
How many people with lifted trucks have a full sized spare? If you.have 35s or 37s and you use the stock spare, that wheel will be going faster than the other ones and ruin some things in your truck.
Good point, but off road tires, especially 10 or 12 ply equivalent ones are much more puncture resistant than passenger car tires. Anyone can get a flat, but its less likely on a off road truck tire
@VJ-ft2xj I agree 100%. If you factor in my luck, which is those somewhat puncture resistant tires might puncture, you get a full sized spare. I had to throw it in the back of my truck because a 37 inch tire won't fit under my truck. Hopefully I never need it, but better to have it than be stranded.
@@John_Redcorn_ Depends on the difference and distance. 1" taller probably not. If you swapped yer factory 32s for 40s I wouldn't want to drive far on that myself. Personally I carry tire plugs and a AAA card to go with the spare. Most times I can permanently fix the tire in place myself if I find a nail.
Up here in British Columbia, there is an issue with insurance for lifted(modified) trucks that most truck owners here are not aware of. The government run insurance plan, the Insurance Corporation of British Columbia, here requires that anybody with a vehicle that is lifted 4" or more must be registered with I.C.B.C. and this has to be in the policy description. Whether or not that would be grounds for them to deny paying out to cover a crash damaged truck, I don't know. But, if I had a truck lifted here, I would register it as modified. Owners that I have spoken to here that have lifted trucks had no idea about this requirement.
I'm pretty sure i never heard braking mentioned!?!? Definitely keep brakes in mind! Definitely needs upgrades if lifting and adding bigger tires, wheels etc
@@rightwingsafetysquad9872 You do understand that there are trailer brakes, right? If your point were valid, then they aren't needed. What you said would apply to the parking brake only. Lifting the truck guaranteed that the force at the braking point is going to be higher as the inertia is going to be higher. You added weight. That additional weight also has a bit more leverage because your tire is bigger, which means more lever from the outside of the tire to your axle, and you didn't change the lever that the brake can apply as it is still only the rim to the axle. You would be weakening your brakes by percentages. This is similar math to the payload calculation.
Thanks for discussing the liability concerns of modifications! Required minimum insurance levels of 20/40/20 are outdated. Unfortunately there was a concern that requiring adequate insurance levels of 250/500/500 minimum for all vehicles is “racist,” supposedly affecting lower-income urban minority communities more. There are current $750,000 minimum combined single limits for most commercial vehicles. As most vehicle accidents are caused by 4-wheelers, commercial and private-owned limits should be the closer to being the same. There are currently proposals to increase limits for commercial vehicles, but no politicians want to force regular voters to be financially responsible for their vehicles and mods. A $250,000 per person and $500,000 per occurrence personal injury limit and $500,000 property damage limit should be universally adopted, and most individuals able to afford to buy a modern pickup truck should add a $1 Million or $2 Million dollar umbrella liability coverage over that.
I had always assumed this was the case but never had any good rules of thumb so I just stayed away from lifted used vehicles. Thanks for the information.
Awesome video! I bought a new F350 Tremor despite the fact I could've bought a stock 350 and upgraded it for cheaper mostly because of the warranty and liability that comes with buying it factory-installed. I'd rather not have to worry about whether or not the truck and components will hold up to our work and play.
Ive never understood people who are cheap about lifting their trucks/try and cut corners. I recently gave my 02 Suburban a 6" lift with 34s and when I say I redid everything, tried to think of everything that would be an issue and over did everything Im not lying. Lift obviously came with a front diff cradle, front shocks, coil springs, drop spindles, drop brackets for the rear track bar, and drop brackets for the torsion bars. I then went beyond that and ditched the rear shock extenders for actual 6" shocks, got heim jointed 6" sway bar links for the front, adjustable upper control arms, brand new lower control arms, new inner and outter tie rods, kicker bar braces, high angle CV axles, adjustable track bar, adjustable rear control arms, brand spanking new calipers all the way around, slotted and drilled rotors with carbon ceramic pads. I also replaced every bushing I could get too which at that point was basically just the sway bar mounts and torsion bar crossmember. I then opted for 17" wheels on a stock offset and width. Gave it some meaty 34s ala old school style and immediately got it aligned. What I was left with was a fantastic riding rig, that drives straight as an arrow, eats up bumps without bending a $2300 wheel, looks good, stops fast, and I retained all my stock suspension geometry. I got both pinion angles to within 1° of stock. Don't be cheap people, get everything together first dont half ass it. It could mean yours or someones elses life. Also, PSA...REAIM YOUR GODDAMN HEADLIGHTS! lmao
It's good that you're getting this information out. Funny thing is another YT channel has been preaching this information for years. Almost to deaf ears and the shagrin of many listeners. His channel is focused on RV's. Immediately he goes to the information on the trailer and the truck. Pointing out these very same things. Noting additionally that many RV sales and... aftermarket shops do not inform customers about this information. Because they are more interested in selling their products. Slide in campers are huge culprits in this. Because they are very heavy. When load it your gear your passengers and, all the high end bells and whistles of your expensive new truck...your generally well past the load rate of your truck. So it's good your putting this information out. It really is important that consumers know and understand this. That big shiny new high end 100 thousand dollar truck sitting on the lot. Sure looks beautiful but many people are dramatically surprised to learn... it can barely (by its approved rating) haul itself around ! Let alone a load from the lumber lot or the boat and RV the consumers want to haul with it. So yes.. go bigger F450.. GM / DODGE 5500... AND LEAVE IT IN STOCK CONDITION !
In my opinion if you put a big lift in and big dumb tires you no longer have a truck, you have a toy. If you have the $$ to turn a $100,000 truck into a toy well then good for you, my truck all stock not lifted packs a camper tows a 12,000 lb boat pulls my Bobcat gets dirt gets building supplies etc, if I want to race go fast show off I'll buy a Camaro Mustang or Challenger.
Here in Australia we have this issue all the time. I have Ram 2500 3 inch lift and 35@s with a gvm upgraded to 5400. I can legally go to 37s. The truck goes through re- engineering and licensing. Then you have to get a truck license to drive it. All test like braking , roller over and load testing to prove the truck is actually modified correctly and safe.
Theres a Ron Pratt (I think) video of an F250 on it's side. It was lifted with aftermarket suspension work and aftermarket wheels and large tires. It was pulling a 19-20K pound 5th wheel. It showed clearly what not to tow with a lifted truck, let alone a way under rated truck for the trailer. The driver was driving too fast for the area, and blew through a late yellow as someone made a turn to clear. He couldn't stop, and in trying to go around the other, lost control and the trailer just pushed the truck right over. Both truck and trailer were new, so someone sold the dude a pile of BS.
Great video, brought up a lot of good talking points. The government though also has a lot to do with GVWR. They choose those numbers for registration and classification purposes. When I was purchasing a 3/4 ton truck in 2017 most of them were all listed at 10,000lbs. Ford, Chevy, Ram. There is no way that each of them were exactly capable of exactly 10,000lbs. I am sure all of them would pass at 10,000lbs but scientifically I also know that if they were actually tested then their max numbers would all be slightly different. DOT used to cap class 2 trucks at 10K and once you went over that number on the registration then it would now be considered a class 3 truck meaning different qualifications and standards for registration. I am not an expert by any means but if you do what they discuss in this video and account for the added weight and subtract that from your stickered GVWR on your truck then you will probably be within the vehicles means.
Fantastic video, thanks. Next how about you do one on the engineering that goes into headlight design, and how terrible all of the obnoxious aftermarket bulbs are for other drivers on the road. Just because you want bright blue lights for your '06 Altima doesn't mean you should.
Question. So I go to a dealer I see brand new lifted trucks. is the door stickers still valid? Who put those stickers on & who did the lifting for new trucks at dealers?
RAM AAM axle is an 8,300# axle rated by RAM at 6600#.. I think there is plenty of capacity margin. Bigger tires also may rate for more capacity. If your modifying your truck, put your ego in the back seat and slow down a bit..
After years of hauling 20-30k on the farm with 1500s 2500s and 3500s never had an issue. Every truck had bigger tires a few had lifts. Back in the day all us farmers used 1500s to haul anything. Were you going fast? Usually not but sometimes we did. It’s gotten the job done for us for the last 30 years. Ended up putting 3500 springs on one 1500 and then 5500 springs on a 3500. That was on the older rigs though. Still have that 3500 but also bought a new 3500 srw mega cab lifted on 35s with a grill guard and hauled 35k on it a few times already. Works great going highway speeds for the 3 hour trip multiple times a day.
I had 3 lifted trucks. The last one had 22s wrapped in 37s. While I did like it , until I had to tow for the first time. Didn't like it. That same day, I got a flat. Bad thing about that was I had a factory spare. So.....I ended up getting rid of it and got a stock truck and left it completely alone. Now I'm happy.
Great information from AEV this is why I got a 3500 ram diesel. Just a leveling kit and stay well within the capabilities of the truck. Also maintenance and driving habits make a huge difference.
We need to go back to the old days. K truck style bed that is actually functional. Not being able to reach into the bed on new trucks, even compact trucks drives me crazy
Had a 2016 sr5 4x4 double cab tundra with a 2 inch front , 1 inch rear lift with 17 inch rims with 32 1/2 inch tires. It changed the payload by 50 lbs or so. It was at 120 k when I traded it. Only problem was replacing the rear shocks at 110 k. The originals were replaced. It was a cheap spacer lift.
Oversized tires really kill braking performance. One of the main limiters to GVWR stickers is the 20 mph to 0 stopping test. A truck has to stop in so many feet and most times the limiting factor is brakes. Most trucks don't have enough brakes to lock them up at max GVWR and you can't even make the ABS kick in on dry pavement when you are loaded at the sticker max. When the truck gets a taller, heavier tire it has more leverage against the brakes, plus more momentum from the extra spinning weight. I went from a 39 pound 31.6 inch tire to a 66 pound 33.1 inch tire and the truck sucked so bad for any real use other than putting around a farm field or mild trails to get firewood. If the brakes were barely adequate before, they were absolutely dangerous now. I had a squat over 400 pounds and a few times when I needed to emergency brake I thought I was gonna bend the pedal because I was stomping so hard and there wasn't even enough braking power to make the ABS kick in on wet pavement when the truck was unloaded. This is a well maintained, low miles 2013, not some old square body. Think about how many brodozers out there who can't stop if a kid runs out in the 20 mph to 0 test. And how many brodozers have a kid sized blind spot from the bumper out to 35 feet in front of the bumper. How about the stupid squatted trucks with their blind spots. I have a small suspension lift with stiffer springs on all 4 corners for towing, hauling, and most importantly snow plowing. The stiffer springs in the front let the front end sit at happy angles in 4WD while pushing snow. 1.5" higher in front and I added a leaf in the back and pulled out my stock lift block at the same time so the back is only up about 0.5" from stock. If I ever get taller tires again the truck will be re-geared and brakes upgraded first. And we should also be able to get inspections and GVM upgrades like they do in Australia - 2 inch lift or less, moderate tire increase if wanted, most vehicles need upgraded brakes, and an engineer has to sign off that it passed maneuverability and braking tests. Silverado 1500s that they import can be upgraded to 2400 pound payload. I couldn't go back to stock tires fast enough. One thing nobody talks about for leveled trucks is it changes the steering in emergency maneuvers. A normal truck with rake and stock springs will nose dive and still understeer. A leveled truck with stiffer springs will not nose dive as much and the front end gets less weight transfer and even less traction. A stiff leveled truck can pretty much keep driving straight and rear end someone where a more stock style truck would have had more traction on the front tires and swerved better.
This is great! I love seeing this issue taken head on and in a professional manner. There are a whole lot of ding dongs out herw lifting their trucks as high as possible as cheap as they possibly can. Same for these big tough looking bumpers.
I had a Nissan lifted 6 inch and learn hard way over weight broke springs and driveshaft I think lifting can cause issues if u looking to tow or carry heavy weight payload I also had one break a driveshaft in half not sure was weight or computer issue so I just keep other stock or just a very little lift of 2-3 inch to be safe then sorry payload is very important to know
Towing fast just because the speed limit might be 80 mph on the road is stupid. If you're a logger, oil field worker or something similar you might need a small to moderate lift. I agree with the more lift the less safe it is tow certain weights but as far as a stock truck with the quality upgraded front bumper i dont think is really a game changer for 3/4 tons and 1 tons. The j2801 (or whatever it is) is somewhat under-rated, for obvious reasons of course. Since I've put the ranch hand bumper on the front oc my dually nobody has tried to cut me off loaded, towing or just driving like they did when I had the factory bumper. And I'm the one that makes others mad when I'm towing because I won't get over 60 mph on an interstate or multi lane highway where the speeds can be posted higher than 55 mph.
This is why a factory lift is the best best ...something like the company R.M.T. ( Rocky Mountain Trucks ) they partner with Ford, chevrolet, jeep and Dodge and it doesn't void your warranty.
i never change the rims / geometry on my work trucks. about the only thing i will do is mess around with the tire size alittle bit from factory. usually just adding a bit of side wall or a bit of contact patch width. eff low profile tires.
I am a farmer with a fleet of more than a dozen pickup trucks, of various sizes and manufacturers, a couple of which have aftermarket suspension upgrades. My 2 cents: It really depends on the application. You really don't reap many benefits from driving a lifted pickup truck on public roads, but then again when you're fighting fires in the forest, or running roughshod over the desert in Afghanistan, you're probably not primarily concerned about aerodynamics or the safety of the other cars on the road. Rims and tires do not effect payload unless the larger tires have a lower load rating. Rims and tires are unsprung weight, meaning the suspension does not bear their weight, and therefore do not effect the ability of the frame or suspension to bear a load. Case in point, some heavy duty pickup truck owners (3/4 ton and larger) are replacing their factory rims and tires with semi-truck rims and tires. You're telling me if that is all I changed, my payload and towing capacity have decreased? Judging by the load rating of semi-truck tires, I seriously doubt it. Suspension lift kits are subject to the quality of the suspension components that were replaced. Some offer higher GCWR, while some reduce overall load capabilities. That is largely subject to the manufacturer. You don't always need to alter the driveline angles either, so again, subject to the manufacturer of the lift kit in question. Do your homework before buying budget lift kits. Aerodynamics, vacuum, and thus fuel economy are a drastically costly expense for the sake of ground clearance. That should be obvious. But depending on the application, such as military vehicles, logging trucks, offroad recovery and emergency vehicles to name a few, GCWR and payload can be be accounted for by designing the vehicle around higher ground clearance. taller suspension, and larger tires. Like Sam said, regulations with respect to road safety and fuel economy are largely the determining factor as to why you can't buy a factory pickup truck on 37's, and it probably makes sense for the safety of other motorists, and the practicality and function of the pickup truck. The potential owner will be far more likely to use their truck the vast majority of the time on-road, often while carrying a payload, or towing a heavy weight. Lowest practical center of gravity, and aerodynamic efficiency are therefore a bigger concern than negotiating obstacles. At the end of the day, you should use the best tool for the job. If you're just driving to work, or towing/carrying the occasional load, lifting your truck probably doesn't make sense. But if you intend on using your truck to go to the farthest reaches of earth, on the harshest terrain, you're probably not going to make it in a factory consumer grade pickup truck designed for highway driving with 9 inches of ground clearance and 2 inches of sidewall on your tires. Just sayin'.
AND .... if you are lifting your truck, get bigger diameter and stronger all-Titanium Alloy axles and alloy transfers cases with aerospace-grade stainless steel fully-cyrogenically-hardened gearing and new Titanium Alloy wheels, new heavier duty springs AND some high-performance Liquid Spring suspensions! I would ALSO weld reinforcing T-rails and i-rails all along the frame to increase tensile/torsion/flexion/compressive strength on major underbody and under-frame parts. Then blueprint the engine block and add ceramic liners and new cryo-hardened pistons, new valves, cryo-hardened camshafts and drive chain components to allow for higher engine temperatures and higher boost pressures. You can then increase payloads and towing abilities! And NO!, what I'm saying it isn't an insane thing to do to your truck but rather it's 30+ years of automotive/aerospace experience and high-technology software systems, CNC machining, 3D printing and specialty welding system capabilities! V
Excellent breakdown. Owning a TRX, my payload is pretty low already from the factory and many performance truck owners just think of HP and torque when deciding to load up or tow. After I added power running boards, a bed tonneau cover, other minor modifications here and there and just carrying my family and other daily items in my truck, I am pretty close to payload max. But I knew this going in and do not plan to haul or load much if anything with this truck.
you missed one big factor I've been pushing for years and you should do a video on this. say you have a basic p245-75R16 and you have a half ton truck then you put an LT245-75R16 load range E on for whatever reason maybe you go offroad and need a tougher sidewall or whatever but your door sticker says 35PSI so you set all your tires to 35PSI. did you know at 35PSI on a half ton truck that the LT load range E tires cannot properly support the weight of that vehicle? the sidewall ends up flexing more than it is supposed to leading to catastrophic tire failure. last time I looked it up if I remember correctly for that size tire you would have to run a minimum of 45 PSI to support the weight of a half ton truck with load range E tires. another instance the weight holding capacity of a tire is ignored regularly, is when people put lower profile tires on heavy duty trucks. i've had to explain to customers before that the tire and wheel choice they have made for their truck will barely hold up the weight of their truck with them in it and cannot handle the weight of passengers or any payload, the tires are maxed out even with a load range E tire. the weight holding ability of a tire is determined by more than just the sidewall stiffness the physical air mass inside the tire also determines it's weight holding ability. for example an LT225-75R16 E tire can be found on ford E150's but an E250 gets LT245-75R16's because the tire with a larger air mass can hold the weight of the heavier E250 van. people mess this up on cars too. I have a chart somewhere from when I worked at Firestone that lists out the LBS holding ability of each size tire at different tire pressures, if you know where to search you may be able to locate this information. you should check it out.
This is a huge issue in Australia. Checks have shown around 40% of people towing caravans are exceeding their vehicle’s Gross Vehicle Mass (GVM; the Australian equivalent of GVWR). With 7 to 10% of a trailer’s mass on the tow ball, it is very easy to exceed. I’m personally grappling with this at the moment. I’ve ordered an F150 XLT for its 4.5t Australian tow capacity and am investigating having to upgrade its GVM before registration because of its poor payload of 769kg (1695lbs). The equivalent Ranger XLT in Australia has a payload of 2160lbs, so on paper it is much more likely to be able to tow its (lower) 3.5t limit.
If you overdo modifications and massively exceed things like GVWR, your insurance can cancel your insurance for having "illegal modifications" on your vehicle.
I am from the Pacific Northwest I see everything lifted new old doesn't matter but their usually just daily drivers and I've been noticing 95% of these modify 4x4 are the newer Tacoma & 4Runner they all look the same with the 4x4 modifications
RVs are usually overloaded over thier GVWR even without towing anything. My class C on a E450 chassis has a GVWR of #14,500 lbs, wet weight loaded is #13,100 lbs. That leaves 1,300 lbs for passengers and supplies. Most RV owners have never weighed their rigs and think they can bring their whole house with them.
Anyone ever try and work out of a jacked up truck? Having to lift heavy things into a bed that comes up to your chest? It sucks. I’ll take my plain Jane stock dodge ram.
People don't even look at their payload when they are trying to determine the suitability of their trucks to tow. It is a huge uphill battle to get them to even give a passing thought to how any modification might affect that ability.
YES! I live in Northeast Texas. I either see lifted duallys on aftermarket wheels and tires(never towing) or 3/4 tons towing bulldozers and the rear bumper is almost on the ground.
and he did not even get into other regulations that are not even a blip on the radar to most these days. Things like head light height, bumper height, overall width, open tires beyond fenders, market light colors and placement. There are regulations to all of these things in most states.
The worst are the jeeps with those red day time running lights that go around the headlights. 100 percent illegal in all states for on road use. It looks like a set of tail lights coming at you at night.
What he talks about is why I absolutely do not buy used trucks with any modifications that are not factory. Same goes for motorcycles, boats, cars..... but we are talking trucks here.
Bingo.
And this is exactly why most modern half-tons suck, especially the higher trim ones. Payload is garbage. You'll never get anywhere near your max tow capacity because of it. Might as well get a mid-size where those two numbers are much more likely to sync up.
If you want to tow anything decent-sized, just get an HD.
@@SliderFury1You can put in 2 or 3 times what the sticker says. The ratings are crazy conservative.
@@user-tb7rn1il3q my F-150 payload sticker says 2060lbs. Aint no way I'm loading my truck up with 4-6k, that's just asking for something to bend or break.
I've watched TFL for years and I can honestly say that it is one of the best channels. Not only is it entertaining, it is highly informative. So many people travel unsafe. I get slack from many when going on trips because I pay attention to GVWR, payload, GCWR, my axle ratings, etc... but in the end, the outcome of not paying attention to these highly important metrics is the difference between breaking down, getting stranded or even causing injury to yourself or others. Excellent episode!
i tow a lot and i do to. screw the people that get mad at us for it! i dont want to end up in a ditch!
I do enjoy how they get into the nitty gritty
Lifted, leveled with giant hooptie wheels and tires is common. Folks will sacrifice everything for the look they want. I asked someone why he modded his truck. He said, “I don’t want my truck to look like an old mans truck.”
Just look how big the tinted headlight/taillight market is.
@@danielbonner8309 I spent a chunk on lighting upgrades on my truck. Went from standard to LEDs. Good upgrades. Yes, I have my headlights properly adjusted so that nobody bright lights me.
Gotta love them rubber band tires on giant rims 💀
@@MrOiram46 the tire shops love to sell the clown rubber band tires a rim combo. They have a room off the shop area that they throw those bent up rims into a pile. All it takes is a pothole and they are garbage.
The guys take them to the scrap yard, then split the cash😝
The old man doesn't like rolling his truck.
Another thing people don’t think about is when they put on bigger tires, the speedometer and odometer are off. Unless they do something to correct it, it throws the vehicle speed and actual mileage off. Also, too much lift without compensating will put strain on your front CV joints, affect the driveshaft angles, etc.
Don't forget the gearing. Modifying any part of your vehicle can put stresses on other parts that exceed design specifications. Before I lightly modded my '04 Mach 1 with a tune, cat-back exhaust and suspension bits I looked up and talked to Scott Hoag, the program manager of the 2002 1/2 Bullit and 2003-2004 Mach 1 Mustangs. I ran everything past him before I touched my car. My aftermarket wheels and tires weigh less than OEM and the tires have the exact outside diameter as factory. Even though I'm running a staggered set up the outside diameter of the front and rear tires is identical. My front wheels have the same offset as factory and the front tires are the same size as factory. I didn't mess up the handling or the geometry of the front suspension.
That is relatively minor all things considered. What is much more important when adding a bigger wheel, is the significant increase in stopping distance.
this was awesome. Next, do a video on how stupid it is to install wheel spacers.
I second this
And spacer lifts!
@@jollyrogueoffroadshhhhh not too much on that. Andre did that to his previous blue f150😂
Such a dated comment. Any reputable manufacturer (Bora, Spidertrax) who makes a hubcentric spacer is more than fine.
Yeah sure if you are running 3” spacers from Alibaba, that’s one thing.
I’ve used 1” Bora on two trucks with over 75,000 miles and never had a single issue or premature wear
@@23bbrandon same, I've had hub centric spacers for 7 years. Zero issues. Or for reference, about 110k miles (truck has 324k)
I love these technical explanations of truck engineering and capabilities. Interesting and informative. Thanks.
Good info guys. As the former owner of a Tacoma it seems that the aficionados of that platform (hello overlanding?) are some of the most obvious offenders for these issues. Doing the math: given the 950 pound payload (which my truck had), over half of that is taken up by a fiberglass shell, the driver and one passenger. After one extended camping trip in an admittedly overloaded condition, I was very ready to move onward and upward in size. My current F250 may be considered "overkill" for someone who doesn't plan on towing heavy bud I'd rather err in this direction than be caught short.
I bought a Tacoma planning to tow 5800#. TRD OR with dealer installed running boards.
The first time I rolled onto a scale with that setup, I got a shock. With nothing buy me and a full tank of gas in the truck, set up perfectly with 600# on the hitch, I was 20# under the GVWR. I spent years rolling around with the back seat removed because I needed the extra 80# of payload capacity.
A Ranger or Colorado could do better, and the 2024 Tacoma has better payload, but I've had enough of being right on the limits, so when a drunk totalled my Tacoma, I stepped up to a full size.
@@that.schamp It's good to be cautious but come on... an extra 80 pounds is not going to break the truck.
@@coreyisapushover 20# under the GVWR was with my car on the trailer and nothing but me and gas in the truck.
80# won't break the truck - but it can make a difference when you roll into Love's to weigh in with a Tacoma pulling a compact TLB, several implements, and a box of tools, the Smokey writing up an overloaded hotshot turns around, looks at you sideways, and blocks you in to see your sheet after he's done with the hotshot.
He was planning to weigh me himself to give me a warning. He knew I was overweight, but since I was weighing in, at least I was not oblivious to it. But I was 40# under GVWR. So instead of a warning, he shook his head and said that if he wasn't looking at a CAT sheet, he wouldn't believe I could tow it.
Anyway, not a problem for me now. I snagged a 3 yr old Powerstroke F-150 with 45k on the odo for less than the 7 year old Tacoma payed out. Now I only worry about overloading the trailer.
@liftedsafari 80# may not. Notice he said by himself he was at GVWR. Ever want a passenger, got forbid 2 since everyone needs these 4 door trucks. Point is these little trucks just aren't really up to task if that’s yer planned normal use. Get a full size with the appropriate ratings.
@@chublez I see where you get the idea, but I don't people to read what I wrote and go waste their money.
The point we are making is that the 2nd and 3rd gen have terrible payload capacity and many Taco owners do not realize they are overloaded!
But the Taco did the job for me. It had more limitations than I expected, so I was passenger and cargo restricted while towing. A functional perspective, a Ranger or Colorado would have been completely adequate with few limitations.
I towed heavy only a few dozen times over the Taco's life. 90% of it's use was grocery runs. So the limitation was that I didn't take my dog with me to the Tractor dealer...
The Tacoma was -exactly- the right choice from a financial perspective because it had a lower cost and held value better than a dollar bill over it's ownership period.
I have a full size truck now because I got one on the cheap - 2 years old and it cost less than insurance paid out for the Tacoma. If I were buying new, I probably would get a Ranger.
I hate to see people wasting money on full size trucks they don't actually need - especially at current prices(!). For many people, it's a terrible financial choice with long term consequences.
The engineers created the truck a certain way in order to optimize its structural longevity and overall performance. I have lifted and/or leveled almost every truck I have owned. The added height combined with a larger wheel and tire looked great but any advantages gained from the lift were eventually lost in unnecessary mechanical component wear and tear, coupled with deviation of the factory steering and handling. IMO, staying stock is the better choice.
In away to hit the specs at the lowest cost possible
Quality aftermarket components in most cases are superior to factory parts.
Everything I replaced while lifting my truck is built better than factory.
@@youtubecantsaveallthesnowf8601 As long as people use a proper lift kit from BDS and not Rough Country's Chinese crap.
My current truck I have not lifted or modified and it’s lasted me the longest without any reliability problems.
Good news is that 95% of people that lift and modify their trucks never take them off-road or tow/haul anything. Worst obstacle they see is a curb or speed bump, but braking can be problematic in a emergency if much larger tires are fitted.
And they actually buy them in 2wd. Funny watching these guys in a little bit of snow. My Subaru looks way more manly in a snowstorm.
Take your lifted truck and park it 90 degrees to your vehicle your wife, and kids if applicable, rides in and see where the truck will hit the other vehicle. Now decide whether a lifted truck on the road with your loved ones is a great idea.
@bruceleroy1143 subarus work good in the snow....till it gets more than a few inches deep and then you need the truck with the ground clearance to pull you out...
I help you guys out all winter.
I live in Texas. I see people towing stuff with those trucks all the time.
95%?
The only "mods" I've made to my 2002 Silverado 1500HD were adding step rails to assist with climbing in and out of the cab, a 2013 step corner rear bumper to replace the rusted-out bumper, LED fog lamps, and tow mirrors with heating capability. None of these affected the truck at all, but definitely helps with climbing in or out of the cabin or the bed. I was told that I "should" lift my truck to "make it look so much more cooler," and thankfully, I never followed through with the trouble of lifting it. The reliability of the truck is what I wanted, and it's performed quite well when towing/hauling reasonable loads. Never mind the fact that the 6.0L V8 is a gas guzzler with the 4L80E and 3.73 (I think... Got the spec sheet somewhere and my old mind is starting to slip a lil...) gear axle ratio, it's a solid daily driver that's kept giving me performance without question. Needs a bit of work since it was a former Ohio plow truck, but wouldn't trade it in for anything else. Thank you, André, for this VERY informative episode because it keeps me grounded in my decision to NOT lift the truck or put bigger tires on it. 🙂
These are some of the best trucks made. They don't get great gas mileage but they are reliable.
Mine is a 04 and has over 400,000 miles on it now with just a transmission replacement.
It also astonishes me how many people add a bunch of weight to their rigs and never touch the brakes. It's often ignored in favor of performance or cosmetic upgrades, but your vehicle still has to slow down and stop effectively, particularly on mountain passes.
You should see the Shelby pickup trucks.... 700+HP and the brakes are untouched Ford F150 brakes..... Seems to me that for $125K, they would put bigger brakes and better calipers and not just some cheap plastic covers over the calipers ...
I hardly use my brakes i use my exhaust brake to stop on my cummins
@@HVTMuddvain in traffic? Or if someone pulls in front of you, or slams on their brakes? This comment is silly.
@@BrandonBaecker no its not how do you figure i dont speed and i dont ride asses in front of me in a freak incident sure but in normal driving conditions drive right and theres no need for you too stomp your brakes i literally do this daily and have had no issues for the last two yrs and i drive up and down I45 south of dallas daily.
@@BrandonBaecker i stated hardly that doesnt consist of NEVER come on if youve had a exhaust brake you know exactly what i mean loaded or unloaded they are amazing thus why i made that comment standard gas engines are not equipped i get that but thats why i said my Cummins and i know they use there 2500 cummins in this video some as well
I put 4 inch lift and 37" tires on a Ram 2500...sweet!
University of Nebraska Lincoln conducts guardrail rollover testing... look into lifted trucks results vs guardrails... it's eye opening.
And look into head on collisions as well. Lift kits and big tires kill people.
😮
Spending time on Reddit forums, people really don’t care about towing safety. People laughed at me when I suggested they weigh their rig at a cat scale because I said it looks improperly distributed.
Great topic! So many people won’t give it a second thought. I’ve even heard people say that lifting their truck makes it stronger so it can tow more. Although I know better, I’ve never been able to explain it. Now, I’ll just send them to watch this video!
The single most limiting and defining aspect on a trucks GVWR is its braking power. Larger tires are more leverage and momentum on your brakes to stop the vehicle and you have to be cognizant of how hard you are making your brakes work with how you load your truck. The tires can carry 14000 lbs on a SRW truck, but no truck is rated that high because of its braking limitations. The axles are strong enough to carry more weight, the frame is built to support well over design load, and the truck will let you know if you start to overheat it. Braking is the factor you have no warning and only a weight rating to go by on how effective that system is. If you do any mods, find an empty road and test your brakes, see how they changed. Lockup power, distances and to ensure it doesn’t totally fail under a high load situation.
I deal with a lot of Hot Shotters, it's crazy to me when they arrive in a lifted 3/4 or 1 ton. With big ass tires. I have tried to explain to the drivers several of the points that have brought up in this video. They don't care.
Drive away with 7k load max on a goose neck, their ass end sagging like I loaded them with twice the weight. Honestly scares me more that DOT does nothing about it
The big tires kill the braking power from leverage and extra momentum. Most trucks don't have enough braking power to lock them up on dry pavement when you load up to the sticker max with a short stock size tire. Add a taller tire and tow CDL loads like these idiots and you know they are gonna run over a kid some day.
We don't get this either.
Great video. I've always thought that the 1/2 ton trucks were the hardest working vehicle in America. Poor things doing 8 lug work.
people dont use their trucks for work anymore, theyre basically cadillacs with a short bed
@@carlholland3819 we use our trucks for the ranch/ farm.
Gameplan: buy larger truck than needed just to have bandwidth for performance downgrades. More money, less capability
This video stopped me from getting larger tires for my f250 with a slide in truck camper. Thank you. 1-2 inches of extra clearance doesn't sound worth the consequences.
if you get stuck in the middle of nowhere and have to pay thousands of dollars to get a tow and/or youre out of water or freezing to death you might have wished you had the taller tires
@@carlholland3819 true but I've yet to go anywhere that extreme... i would get larger tires if I wasn't already at GVWR fully loaded. Don't really have much wiggle room to play with.
Off-set wheel spacing is really hard on wheel bearings.
The load is no longer directed over the bearing and instead there is a prying effect on the bearings over what it was designed for.
The worst is when you can see the brakes inboard of the wheel, unprotected, because of ridiculous wheel offset. I'd swear the guys that do that can't possibly wrench themselves because they clearly don't understand leverage.
If you are towing the lower the ratio of trailer to tow rating the better. If you are above 75% of the rated tow rating you are getting close to the point where you need a bigger truck. Even without vehicle modifications.
I like running my stock size tires. Better mileage, handling and acceleration. I didn't buy my truck to feel beefy or macho 😂 some people their vehicle becomes their personality though
Different strokes for different folks. People install aftermarket parts to replace weak factory parts for what intended use of the truck.
good for you
@@victormadrigal3515 thanks
@@victormadrigal3515 thanks 😊
Many do. There's a reason why so many tucks are sold, but almost none are used as trucks.
Add to that how people in tucks react to sports cars. While one might think it would be young kids in small cars that wants to race, it is often guys in trucks having something to prove.
i have a 14 ram 3500hd single cab srw that is lifted with 33s and i use it for plowing/salting. it has a payload of 2 ton and up until this year i would put the 2 yd sander on the tailgate leaving a few feet for salt bags. i would have a 9 foot plow on the front, about 30 50lb salt bags and 2 yd of salt/sand. that would put the total added weight anywhere from 5k-6klbs. the truck handled it like it wasnt even there, kinda. if it werent for the truck having a leveling kit anyway. so yea, loaded up like that it did squat a bit. never felt unsafe driving it around though. i dont carry salt bags anymore so now a days im closer to 4-5klbs. been doing this for quite a few years now no problem. i do plan on adding super springs though to reduce squat.
I see a lot of yahoos around here with lifted one ton diesels pulling 5th wheels. The truck is squatted badly, and the front axle of the 5th wheel is off the ground putting much of the trailer weight on the rear axle, the axle that usually doesn't have trailer brakes, or has them also, reducing the stopping power to zero if no rear axle trailer brakes or 50% with. Back 30 years ago, the rating on a truck was based on a stripped single cab work truck, no frills. Add a back seat or an extended cab, penalize weight capacity; add 4x4, penalize more. Add fancy interior, heavy tires, bumpers, step rails. before ya know it, you have NO hauling capacity.
Anecdotally most guys lift trucks and install bigger wheels with more negative offset and bigger tires for the look. That’s great - if you’re in high school cruising the mall - but as said by experts in the video you may be risking safety and liability. Folks who actually use their trucks off-road can make a good argument for more capability but might want to consider a rig factory designed to meet their needs.
I blame the poor education system of not teaching physics properly. If you look at that picture 21:18 they physics would dictate in an emergency breaking scenario the trailer would push down even more on the tongue and therefore Lift the front end off the road removing all ability to steer and control the truck. Driver is just along for the ride at that point.
Issues you skipped.... Worth thinking about. This one affects handling and steering.
The leverage ratio changes on the springs on ifs when lift spacers are added. The spring rate will change. Also usually maxes out the camber adjuster at about 2 inches of lift, making alignments difficult. The wheel spacer or offset affects the scrub radius of the wheel and lever ratio on the spring in the ifs components. . Wheel spacer or offset changes this as well as bearing load. The sway bar ratio is also changed this is on just ifs set ups. Now you can see how much this can vastly affect handling, but there are things you can do.
I have more, but this is enough to get you thinking.
Of all of my friends with trucks I only knew one to actually haul stuff around. He also had a lifted truck, dude had a ramp cause the bed was so high he couldn’t lift heavy objects into it lmfao. He also had a little step installed by the doors to get into the car. It was so silly.
Trucks are for hauling and work… raising the bed makes all of that harder. That’s like purposely modding a sports car to be less aerodynamic or to drive slower. Makes zero sense
30+ years as a tech, several at an ORI retailer, trucks left stock, wheels, tires, suspension always last longer, get better fuel economy, and have less wheel bearing, brake transmission, and steering component wear. It's just the facts.
A good set of all terrain tires will get 99% of truck drivers where they need to go. I have a ranch with pretty rugged terrain and my Ram and F250 tow and go everywhere I need them to go. Zero lift or leveling. Lifted trucks are for show only. If you wanna look cool or do roofing sales then by all means lift that shit.
One of the things that gets me is in the RV industry how clueless they are on towing at the dealerships. The camper we upgraded to two years ago ended up being 250 pounds heavier on the tongue weight than advertised. That seems to be common among the industry. I ended up having to get larger weight distribution bars, and I modified my truck with a class five hitch on an F150 and heavier duty springs. Deals to say, I have Max out the capacity of my truck because of the camper
Yep, in our experience - your trailer is almost ALWAYS heavier than we originally estimated.
RV sales know the load ratings are an impediment to sales. It’s more profitable to them to make the a sale than downgrade the trailer specifications to suit the tow vehicle specifications.
I have never understood lifting a truck. They have people with Phds to figure out the best and most efficient way for a truck to be configured. And here comes some mouth breather with some kit to make them higher off the ground. If you want to go off the road to that degree get an ATV.
Its crazy to me that folks think these vehicles are just thrown together. The amount of R&D and engineering involved is insane. To think you can bolt on some silly cheap accessories, cold air intakes, spaces, blocks, huge tires, turbos, straight pipe exhausts, suspension parts, or chips and figure there, i made it better! Lol gotta be sensible in what you’re doing… add beefier but stock parts, or actual possibly needed improvement upgrades like catch cans or any OEM upgrades. Even with things like catch cans you gotta be careful… especially living in colder climates or with watching your maintenance intervals.
I've got to say that this was quite the informative video. Thank you guys
Our pleasure!
It looks like this video has crushed a lot of bro-dozing hearts out there. But don't worry, there will always be those idiots that want to drive a two-story house down the street with 40" tires, and soot blowing out of the tailpipe.
😂 exactly. The hey also complain about gas prices the most
What I find funny is they do it just because it looks cool. I wouldn't buy any modified truck that was lifted. Many are done poorly.
@@302Mustang13 What I find funny is that my 1993 JDM off-road van is typically taller than most of these idiots.... I'm looking down on them, which is hilarious.
I laugh when I pass them in the ditch in the winter in my unmodified F450.
@@ckm-mkccap 🧢
It is crazy how much so many truck buyers spend on their trucks to make them look more capable but actually make them less capable. They will argue about performance specs or capabilities between brands while the entire time not considering how much they have cut those very same capabilities. They reduce stability with lift kits raising the center of gravity only to gain minimal additional ground clearance they will rarely if ever need, add constant stress to the engine and transmission by changing the torque dynamics with larger tires, and reduce payload by adding weight all over the place. They may look "bad ass", but they are wimps compared to the same stock truck.
I had an image in my head of the person who would write this crap would look like. I clicked your profile and checked out your tractor video. I Pretty spot on.
I drive a 2022 F350 along with two additional 4x4 vehicles, own and use two construction backhoes, heat my home with firewood I harvest and split, own four welders and five chainsaws. I literally poured 59 yards of concrete last week myself with crew. Not sure what you do on a regular basis, but I'm sure my 13 year old video to sell a lawn tractor says very little about my life, skills, or ability to have a reasonable opinion on the subject of wasting money on trucks for little, if any, return on investment other than mental.
Listen, Budget Eric Weinstein. I drive a 2006 dodge 2500 4x4, with 2 additional 4x4 vehicles (lifted), Own and use 1 tractor, heat my home with firewood that falls on my acreage, I own 1 welder, 7 grinders, 3 chainsaws. 4 Horses, 20 acres. I raise and slaughter livestock my family eats. I didn't pour any concrete lately but I put a roof on. I just lifted a 94 4runner 2" in my garage. replaced the rear axle seals, bearings and tone ring, myself. Your comment about not wasting money on trucks for little while also driving a 2022 is laughable. What happened to your old truck? did you break it from lack of maintenance? Do you even know how to do maintenance on a vehicle?@@polobbie
O.K. So it is established. You and I are not pansies. I can disagree while respecting your position on the matter. My point was that you could not possibly know what I may or may not know about jacking up vehicles a few inches based on my 13 year old lawn tractor video. BTW - I've bought used all my life and like to hold on to vehicles, but finally decided I could afford to splurge once in my life. @@schlomoshekelstein908
What a nice time of the video 😮. Ruined my build. Bought Roush Performance Fox 2.0 kit a couple of weeks ago. ($2,100 + 1K CAD for installation) Keeping factory tire size and 1.75” of lift instead of 2”. And yes, best decision ever !!!!😊
A good friend of mine had 2018 Roush built 5.0L F150. Fox coil overs 34" tires. It was a great truck for most part, except at towing. I have a 2019 Trailboss , stock but 33.5" tires. My friend and I have identical 7700lbs travel trailers, my truck tows it well. The F150 does not.
Andre, valuable information that we all seem to forget. One big one you missed is max towing w/o a WD hitch. There are F-150s that can tow over 10K but the hitch is limited to 5K by Ford. Meaning, if you want to tow 6K trailer, you are required to use a WD hitch. GM and Ram are the same. They really like to hide that fact because it's not easy to market. It would be good to discuss this when you conduct Ike tests as you regularly max the towing.
Why would they offer a factory hitch that only tows 5,000 lbs? From what I understand, most half tons can 5,000 lbs from the bumper.😮
@@302Mustang13 Yep. The bumpers can handle 5K MAX. The hitch can handle more but only with a WD system. They always hide that info. You'll find out when a rental facility won't rent you an excavator because of your hitch.
This is plainly spelled out in the f150 owners manual. My XLT can tow 11k with a wd hitch, but is limited to 7k with a normal receiver hitch. Mine is a 2023 power boost
@@toskin6395 Sorry, even your Powerboost is limited to 5K not 7K without WD. Look at the chart on page 9 of the Ford F-150 towing supplement. I know, they hide that crap which is wrong...
This is indeed very important. Thank you.
Thank you! TFL is known for great reviews, but THIS is quality reporting and knowledge transfer. Love these videos!
At some point you just have to admit, you didn't buy your truck to do typical truck things. So why did you buy the full size thats as tall and as long as a school bus? So you dont get laughed at by the "full size truck community" who laugh at owners of the Santa Cruz, Maverick, Ridgeline, Ranger and Dakota. Oddly they carry air in an empty bed just as easily. But you added 24x14 wheels rubberband tires (315/30-24) 2" spacers, rock lights and a 4" lift and the front end is higher than the rear. Now youre laughed at by everyone else not in a "Brodozer"
As an owner of a lifted truck i can tell you that as i have aged gettin in and out is no fun. The ride is not as nice on mud tires and long drives wear you out bc good luck getting a proper alignment from any shop! My next truck will be an older (no def)low milage diesel with factory suspension.
I love the Kevlar brake pads that I got put on my '16 Ram 1500 Quadcab 4wd Ecodiesel. I also got the 3.92 ratio, expecting to put 1"-1.5" larger tires on the truck. I put Bilstein 4600 shocks on the rear with a 2" taller rear spring. Bilstein 5100 shocks set up to lift 2" went on the front. I have added a Ranch Hand bumper on the front. And a camper shell on the back. The worn out front control arms have been replaced with beefier parts from Ready Lift and Mevotech.
I use this truck for interstate highway travel in any weather and some mild overland adventures.
Our 2018 Ram 2500 Crewcab 4wd with the beastly 6.7L, carries a Hawk model 4wheel popup camper. For now we have Bilstein shocks, upgraded brake pads, PPE transmission oil pan, and the Bank's Monster Ram air horn to avoid the dreaded grid heater bolt failure. We look forward to an AED lift kit in the future, and a gear change for 35" tires.
The payload recommendation. Also takes in consideration the likelyhood of more aggressive driving in harsh conditions, after the modifications.
Sad thing is (at least here in NC) people are modifying 3/4 and 1 tons and occasionally using them for “work”. I’ve regularly seen these pulling skid steers etc I really unsafe conditions. 2 years ago a child was killed in a Raleigh Christmas parade when a severely modded truck lost control pulling a trailer. I’m not sure exactly what went wrong but a stock truck would have never done what I saw on the video.
Oh dude tell me about it. I’m in NC too, and I haven’t seen it as bad in any other state than NC, and I’m literally from Texas lol. You see dummies that “Carolina squat” their trucks and still freakin tow with them! Like how dumb do you have to be to do that lol. I remember that accident in Raleigh; and the thing is here they do really trashy mods, not nice mods. Typical southern culture lol.
They said it was brake failure. Definitely a modified truck could be easy to point fingers, but any mechanical part can fail. New or old
If you dont know why the incident happend, how do you know a stock truck would never do that ? The problem was Brake failure due to rusted lines. Now you tell me does any person in the rust belt have the same problem on a stock truck . A diesel has enough power to pull 30k plus pounds so parking brakes won't stop anything. He was going at idel speed and couldn't get it to come to a complete stop. Even honked and yelled and people stood by and took no action just watched a truck run them over at 5 mph
Not to forget about that parade in Raleigh nc. Dudes modified truck pulling a parade float brakes failed and killed a person when the truck couldn't stop
@@therealmccoy9031 he may have said that. but that truck was as clean, shiny and chromed out like a disco ball. More likely shoddy work. A truck with the stance/wheels and mods done to it had no business towing.
Outstanding presentation. Every truck I’ve ever lifted was overall compromised by the lift, with the exception of the 1” lift on my LC200.
Having spent 20 years involved in the heavy truck industry with the last 15 directly involved in specifying trucks doing very heavy vocational work, (twin steer tri drive, planetary 45ton rear axles etc etc) can someone explain why the GAWR’s of pickup truck axles can add up to a number greater than the GVWR?
How this math works in the little truck world would be an interesting video subject. I honestly don’t know.
As far as the “blame the sales person” mantra - I bought a new slide in truck camper. When I fell in love with my chosen camper in the showroom the next question from the sales person was “What truck…?” on delivery the dealership presented me with a document to sign that stated I would install said camper on a truck with sufficient payload and wheelbase to carry the camper with the centre of gravity in an approved location, along with instructions on weighing the truck and camper with respect to calculating safe trailer weights.
I would imagine you still have to meet the GVWR. The GAWR is so you don’t overload an axle and put all of the GVWR on one axle. So if you max one axle out you better run less over the other axle to still be within GVWR.
The axles aren't the weak Point is how. Pretty simple really.
It will never cease to amaze me that anyone would spend the amount of money it takes to buy a truck and modify it without a plan, but clearly it happens. 🤷♂️ I examined payload and GVWR capacities based on trim levels, and considered tire sizes, gear ratios, and intended accessory weights before I even started hitting dealerships to get my truck ordered.
I did the same thing, I'm surprised many don't.
people are mindless consumers. if they had a brain they wouldnt buy the truck in the first place, unless they work construction or farming
@@carlholland3819 …or needed a tow vehicle, or a variety of other reasons it’s not for anyone else to judge.
Funny, people think they look tougher...
It's changed almost all of the geometry, brakes, c.g., acceleration, cooling, gearing.... everything. The exact opposite of the image is what you actually get.
This reminds me of the episode of the guy who had the Gladiator built, completely maxed out. The guy was laughing that it weighed 9000 lbs after all the mods were done. That thing is a rolling disaster waiting to happen.
Australia has some very tight restrictions on 4x4 vehicles down there. Be considered lucky that none of that has come here…….. yet.
wish the regs would come. safety first
@@Enchanted3DPrints they already have. thats why my 94 toyota truck weighed 2000lbs and the new tacoma weights 4000
we dont want trucks to be too light, then they would get better gas mileage
TFL and Andre , great job. Somtimes im pretty hard on you guy's, but this time you nailed it.
I'm a 23 year automotive professional. I've done it all OEM, aftermarket, performance, and lifted trucks. The past 10 years have focused on modifications of trucks. I'm very conservative in my builds for the reasons in this video. Being a dealership we also have to deal with the people whom want to claim warranty when they have overloaded their vehicles.
It's very difficult to explain to people the possible negative side effects when they modify their trucks.
Excellent work with the interviews.
A normal Ford F-150 is 14000lbs vs a Raptor 8200lbs. Lifted suspension + 35s. A Raptor can only tow 500lbs more than my Audi Q7. I also think leveling kits are dumb as the decrease mpg and are harder on front end wear.
Trucks were engineered to function stock soon as you change height or tire width it stresses the chassis.
You mean stresses the suspension
@Kylewraps that's why you get upgraded suspension components. I.e kryponite
@@jacobhaugk5908 I got a zone lift kit at 111k miles and my lower ball joints went out at 145k maybe 150k miles I question if it was the lift kit that led to that regardless, I wouldn’t lift again
@Kylewraps there are so many components out there so it's hard to determine good va bad. But even at stock height I'd always recommend upgrading components for your suspension that are stronger. Only reason my truck has all new stuff at 121k is cause some lower side swiped me
@@jacobhaugk5908 the thing is we have other Silverados one with 290k miles and I think it’s on the original ball joints so I think that answers my question
I've got a copy of a letter from FoMoCo to Ford dealers dated 2004 advising them not to install oversized wheels and tires or lifts on new pickup trucks unless the parts are Ford or Ford Performance and warning that such modifications affect acceleration, braking and handling and can put severe stress in excess of design limits on other parts of the trucks. The letter stated FoMoCo would not warrant claims that could be traced to these modifications.
How many people with lifted trucks have a full sized spare? If you.have 35s or 37s and you use the stock spare, that wheel will be going faster than the other ones and ruin some things in your truck.
Good point, but off road tires, especially 10 or 12 ply equivalent ones are much more puncture resistant than passenger car tires. Anyone can get a flat, but its less likely on a off road truck tire
@VJ-ft2xj I agree 100%. If you factor in my luck, which is those somewhat puncture resistant tires might puncture, you get a full sized spare. I had to throw it in the back of my truck because a 37 inch tire won't fit under my truck. Hopefully I never need it, but better to have it than be stranded.
Its not going to ruin anything in the short distance you drive it to get home or shop. Your diffs arent locked during normal driving
@@John_Redcorn_ Depends on the difference and distance. 1" taller probably not. If you swapped yer factory 32s for 40s I wouldn't want to drive far on that myself. Personally I carry tire plugs and a AAA card to go with the spare. Most times I can permanently fix the tire in place myself if I find a nail.
Up here in British Columbia, there is an issue with insurance for lifted(modified) trucks that most truck owners here are not aware of. The government run insurance plan, the Insurance Corporation of British Columbia, here requires that anybody with a vehicle that is lifted 4" or more must be registered with I.C.B.C. and this has to be in the policy description. Whether or not that would be grounds for them to deny paying out to cover a crash damaged truck, I don't know. But, if I had a truck lifted here, I would register it as modified. Owners that I have spoken to here that have lifted trucks had no idea about this requirement.
This should be required educational material for ANYONE in vehicle sales, RV/Camper sales, and off road parts sales.
I'm pretty sure i never heard braking mentioned!?!? Definitely keep brakes in mind! Definitely needs upgrades if lifting and adding bigger tires, wheels etc
Probably not. Any vehicle's brakes are already designed to handle its max CVWR with a healthy margin of safety.
@@rightwingsafetysquad9872 👍 lol, I bet you do 7500 mile oil changes too!
@@rightwingsafetysquad9872 You do understand that there are trailer brakes, right? If your point were valid, then they aren't needed. What you said would apply to the parking brake only. Lifting the truck guaranteed that the force at the braking point is going to be higher as the inertia is going to be higher. You added weight. That additional weight also has a bit more leverage because your tire is bigger, which means more lever from the outside of the tire to your axle, and you didn't change the lever that the brake can apply as it is still only the rim to the axle. You would be weakening your brakes by percentages. This is similar math to the payload calculation.
Once you lower the GVWR based on your modifications, then the braking should be covered. You refuse to tow as much so that your brakes actually work.
@@ronaldking1054 thank you
Thanks for discussing the liability concerns of modifications! Required minimum insurance levels of 20/40/20 are outdated. Unfortunately there was a concern that requiring adequate insurance levels of 250/500/500 minimum for all vehicles is “racist,” supposedly affecting lower-income urban minority communities more. There are current $750,000 minimum combined single limits for most commercial vehicles. As most vehicle accidents are caused by 4-wheelers, commercial and private-owned limits should be the closer to being the same. There are currently proposals to increase limits for commercial vehicles, but no politicians want to force regular voters to be financially responsible for their vehicles and mods. A $250,000 per person and $500,000 per occurrence personal injury limit and $500,000 property damage limit should be universally adopted, and most individuals able to afford to buy a modern pickup truck should add a $1 Million or $2 Million dollar umbrella liability coverage over that.
I learned so much on this episode.
Thank you & more power!
Watching from the Philippines...😊
I had always assumed this was the case but never had any good rules of thumb so I just stayed away from lifted used vehicles. Thanks for the information.
Lifting trucks decimates resale value
Awesome video! I bought a new F350 Tremor despite the fact I could've bought a stock 350 and upgraded it for cheaper mostly because of the warranty and liability that comes with buying it factory-installed. I'd rather not have to worry about whether or not the truck and components will hold up to our work and play.
Great point!
Agree 100. Keep it factory stock. If you need more capability get a truck factory designed to do it.
Ive never understood people who are cheap about lifting their trucks/try and cut corners. I recently gave my 02 Suburban a 6" lift with 34s and when I say I redid everything, tried to think of everything that would be an issue and over did everything Im not lying.
Lift obviously came with a front diff cradle, front shocks, coil springs, drop spindles, drop brackets for the rear track bar, and drop brackets for the torsion bars. I then went beyond that and ditched the rear shock extenders for actual 6" shocks, got heim jointed 6" sway bar links for the front, adjustable upper control arms, brand new lower control arms, new inner and outter tie rods, kicker bar braces, high angle CV axles, adjustable track bar, adjustable rear control arms, brand spanking new calipers all the way around, slotted and drilled rotors with carbon ceramic pads. I also replaced every bushing I could get too which at that point was basically just the sway bar mounts and torsion bar crossmember. I then opted for 17" wheels on a stock offset and width. Gave it some meaty 34s ala old school style and immediately got it aligned.
What I was left with was a fantastic riding rig, that drives straight as an arrow, eats up bumps without bending a $2300 wheel, looks good, stops fast, and I retained all my stock suspension geometry. I got both pinion angles to within 1° of stock. Don't be cheap people, get everything together first dont half ass it. It could mean yours or someones elses life.
Also, PSA...REAIM YOUR GODDAMN HEADLIGHTS! lmao
It's good that you're getting this information out. Funny thing is another YT channel has been preaching this information for years. Almost to deaf ears and the shagrin of many listeners.
His channel is focused on RV's. Immediately he goes to the information on the trailer and the truck. Pointing out these very same things. Noting additionally that many RV sales and... aftermarket shops do not inform customers about this information. Because they are more interested in selling their products. Slide in campers are huge culprits in this. Because they are very heavy. When load it your gear your passengers and, all the high end bells and whistles of your expensive new truck...your generally well past the load rate of your truck. So it's good your putting this information out. It really is important that consumers know and understand this. That big shiny new high end 100 thousand dollar truck sitting on the lot. Sure looks beautiful but many people are dramatically surprised to learn... it can barely (by its approved rating) haul itself around ! Let alone a load from the lumber lot or the boat and RV the consumers want to haul with it. So yes.. go bigger F450.. GM / DODGE 5500... AND LEAVE IT IN STOCK CONDITION !
In my opinion if you put a big lift in and big dumb tires you no longer have a truck, you have a toy. If you have the $$ to turn a $100,000 truck into a toy well then good for you, my truck all stock not lifted packs a camper tows a 12,000 lb boat pulls my Bobcat gets dirt gets building supplies etc, if I want to race go fast show off I'll buy a Camaro Mustang or Challenger.
Here in Australia we have this issue all the time. I have Ram 2500 3 inch lift and 35@s with a gvm upgraded to 5400. I can legally go to 37s. The truck goes through re- engineering and licensing. Then you have to get a truck license to drive it. All test like braking , roller over and load testing to prove the truck is actually modified correctly and safe.
its a fine balance, letting stupid people risk our safety, or letting the govt have more control over us
Theres a Ron Pratt (I think) video of an F250 on it's side. It was lifted with aftermarket suspension work and aftermarket wheels and large tires. It was pulling a 19-20K pound 5th wheel. It showed clearly what not to tow with a lifted truck, let alone a way under rated truck for the trailer. The driver was driving too fast for the area, and blew through a late yellow as someone made a turn to clear. He couldn't stop, and in trying to go around the other, lost control and the trailer just pushed the truck right over. Both truck and trailer were new, so someone sold the dude a pile of BS.
Great video, brought up a lot of good talking points. The government though also has a lot to do with GVWR. They choose those numbers for registration and classification purposes. When I was purchasing a 3/4 ton truck in 2017 most of them were all listed at 10,000lbs. Ford, Chevy, Ram. There is no way that each of them were exactly capable of exactly 10,000lbs. I am sure all of them would pass at 10,000lbs but scientifically I also know that if they were actually tested then their max numbers would all be slightly different. DOT used to cap class 2 trucks at 10K and once you went over that number on the registration then it would now be considered a class 3 truck meaning different qualifications and standards for registration. I am not an expert by any means but if you do what they discuss in this video and account for the added weight and subtract that from your stickered GVWR on your truck then you will probably be within the vehicles means.
Thank you for the feedback.
they probably all have the same numbers because theyre all built on the same assembly line in china
and these larger tires and suspension lifts also raise the center of gravity which reduces the stability of the truck
Awesome Video and Interviews👍🏼 definitely a good reminder for truck owners, it’s for your own good vibes…safe trucking
Adding GIANT tires robs Hp.
Changing the front bumper affects the SRS ( AIRBAG ) system response.
Fantastic video, thanks. Next how about you do one on the engineering that goes into headlight design, and how terrible all of the obnoxious aftermarket bulbs are for other drivers on the road. Just because you want bright blue lights for your '06 Altima doesn't mean you should.
Question. So I go to a dealer I see brand new lifted trucks. is the door stickers still valid? Who put those stickers on & who did the lifting for new trucks at dealers?
No they aren't valid for the truck you are looking at. Stickers are from factory for the truck without the after factory modifications.
He did not mention it directly in the lever size increase decreases the brake force in proportion to the increase.
Thanks Andre for covering this! This type of information is needed from more sources so everyone can be safer.
Great conversation to be having. It is smart of you to think of these things and share the information with us. Keep up the good work.
RAM AAM axle is an 8,300# axle rated by RAM at 6600#.. I think there is plenty of capacity margin. Bigger tires also may rate for more capacity. If your modifying your truck, put your ego in the back seat and slow down a bit..
After years of hauling 20-30k on the farm with 1500s 2500s and 3500s never had an issue. Every truck had bigger tires a few had lifts. Back in the day all us farmers used 1500s to haul anything. Were you going fast? Usually not but sometimes we did. It’s gotten the job done for us for the last 30 years. Ended up putting 3500 springs on one 1500 and then 5500 springs on a 3500. That was on the older rigs though. Still have that 3500 but also bought a new 3500 srw mega cab lifted on 35s with a grill guard and hauled 35k on it a few times already. Works great going highway speeds for the 3 hour trip multiple times a day.
Exactly, some of us actually know what we're doing.
My grandpa was hauling hay and a goose neck cattle trailer with his 1500. You use what you have. 1500's can do a lot more than people think
@@diyi75😂
Wow, Andre great job. This was a very insightful video. Thank you for putting this together.
Thank you for watching.
I had 3 lifted trucks. The last one had 22s wrapped in 37s. While I did like it , until I had to tow for the first time. Didn't like it. That same day, I got a flat. Bad thing about that was I had a factory spare. So.....I ended up getting rid of it and got a stock truck and left it completely alone. Now I'm happy.
Thank you for the feedback!
Great information from AEV this is why I got a 3500 ram diesel. Just a leveling kit and stay well within the capabilities of the truck. Also maintenance and driving habits make a huge difference.
Agree completely, leveling kit and that’s it
We need to go back to the old days. K truck style bed that is actually functional. Not being able to reach into the bed on new trucks, even compact trucks drives me crazy
ya it must be hard for your average truck owner whos 5'5" to access the bed
Had a 2016 sr5 4x4 double cab tundra with a 2 inch front , 1 inch rear lift with 17 inch rims with 32 1/2 inch tires. It changed the payload by 50 lbs or so. It was at 120 k when I traded it. Only problem was replacing the rear shocks at 110 k. The originals were replaced. It was a cheap spacer lift.
Oversized tires really kill braking performance. One of the main limiters to GVWR stickers is the 20 mph to 0 stopping test. A truck has to stop in so many feet and most times the limiting factor is brakes. Most trucks don't have enough brakes to lock them up at max GVWR and you can't even make the ABS kick in on dry pavement when you are loaded at the sticker max. When the truck gets a taller, heavier tire it has more leverage against the brakes, plus more momentum from the extra spinning weight.
I went from a 39 pound 31.6 inch tire to a 66 pound 33.1 inch tire and the truck sucked so bad for any real use other than putting around a farm field or mild trails to get firewood. If the brakes were barely adequate before, they were absolutely dangerous now. I had a squat over 400 pounds and a few times when I needed to emergency brake I thought I was gonna bend the pedal because I was stomping so hard and there wasn't even enough braking power to make the ABS kick in on wet pavement when the truck was unloaded. This is a well maintained, low miles 2013, not some old square body.
Think about how many brodozers out there who can't stop if a kid runs out in the 20 mph to 0 test. And how many brodozers have a kid sized blind spot from the bumper out to 35 feet in front of the bumper. How about the stupid squatted trucks with their blind spots.
I have a small suspension lift with stiffer springs on all 4 corners for towing, hauling, and most importantly snow plowing. The stiffer springs in the front let the front end sit at happy angles in 4WD while pushing snow. 1.5" higher in front and I added a leaf in the back and pulled out my stock lift block at the same time so the back is only up about 0.5" from stock.
If I ever get taller tires again the truck will be re-geared and brakes upgraded first. And we should also be able to get inspections and GVM upgrades like they do in Australia - 2 inch lift or less, moderate tire increase if wanted, most vehicles need upgraded brakes, and an engineer has to sign off that it passed maneuverability and braking tests. Silverado 1500s that they import can be upgraded to 2400 pound payload.
I couldn't go back to stock tires fast enough. One thing nobody talks about for leveled trucks is it changes the steering in emergency maneuvers. A normal truck with rake and stock springs will nose dive and still understeer. A leveled truck with stiffer springs will not nose dive as much and the front end gets less weight transfer and even less traction. A stiff leveled truck can pretty much keep driving straight and rear end someone where a more stock style truck would have had more traction on the front tires and swerved better.
Thank you for the feedback.
See an awful lot of them broke down on the side of the road. Tie rod busted or control arm ball joint failed
Lifting a truck is the silliest waste of time ever.
This is great! I love seeing this issue taken head on and in a professional manner. There are a whole lot of ding dongs out herw lifting their trucks as high as possible as cheap as they possibly can. Same for these big tough looking bumpers.
Thank you for watching.
people are stupid and want to show off. you going to tell them not to wear rainbow shirts too?
@@carlholland3819 rainbow shirts don't cause excessive wear on factory driveline and suspension components.
I had a Nissan lifted 6 inch and learn hard way over weight broke springs and driveshaft I think lifting can cause issues if u looking to tow or carry heavy weight payload I also had one break a driveshaft in half not sure was weight or computer issue so I just keep other stock or just a very little lift of 2-3 inch to be safe then sorry payload is very important to know
Towing fast just because the speed limit might be 80 mph on the road is stupid. If you're a logger, oil field worker or something similar you might need a small to moderate lift. I agree with the more lift the less safe it is tow certain weights but as far as a stock truck with the quality upgraded front bumper i dont think is really a game changer for 3/4 tons and 1 tons. The j2801 (or whatever it is) is somewhat under-rated, for obvious reasons of course. Since I've put the ranch hand bumper on the front oc my dually nobody has tried to cut me off loaded, towing or just driving like they did when I had the factory bumper. And I'm the one that makes others mad when I'm towing because I won't get over 60 mph on an interstate or multi lane highway where the speeds can be posted higher than 55 mph.
This is why a factory lift is the best best ...something like the company R.M.T. ( Rocky Mountain Trucks ) they partner with Ford, chevrolet, jeep and Dodge and it doesn't void your warranty.
i never change the rims / geometry on my work trucks. about the only thing i will do is mess around with the tire size alittle bit from factory. usually just adding a bit of side wall or a bit of contact patch width. eff low profile tires.
I am a farmer with a fleet of more than a dozen pickup trucks, of various sizes and manufacturers, a couple of which have aftermarket suspension upgrades. My 2 cents:
It really depends on the application. You really don't reap many benefits from driving a lifted pickup truck on public roads, but then again when you're fighting fires in the forest, or running roughshod over the desert in Afghanistan, you're probably not primarily concerned about aerodynamics or the safety of the other cars on the road.
Rims and tires do not effect payload unless the larger tires have a lower load rating. Rims and tires are unsprung weight, meaning the suspension does not bear their weight, and therefore do not effect the ability of the frame or suspension to bear a load. Case in point, some heavy duty pickup truck owners (3/4 ton and larger) are replacing their factory rims and tires with semi-truck rims and tires. You're telling me if that is all I changed, my payload and towing capacity have decreased? Judging by the load rating of semi-truck tires, I seriously doubt it.
Suspension lift kits are subject to the quality of the suspension components that were replaced. Some offer higher GCWR, while some reduce overall load capabilities. That is largely subject to the manufacturer. You don't always need to alter the driveline angles either, so again, subject to the manufacturer of the lift kit in question. Do your homework before buying budget lift kits.
Aerodynamics, vacuum, and thus fuel economy are a drastically costly expense for the sake of ground clearance. That should be obvious. But depending on the application, such as military vehicles, logging trucks, offroad recovery and emergency vehicles to name a few, GCWR and payload can be be accounted for by designing the vehicle around higher ground clearance. taller suspension, and larger tires.
Like Sam said, regulations with respect to road safety and fuel economy are largely the determining factor as to why you can't buy a factory pickup truck on 37's, and it probably makes sense for the safety of other motorists, and the practicality and function of the pickup truck. The potential owner will be far more likely to use their truck the vast majority of the time on-road, often while carrying a payload, or towing a heavy weight. Lowest practical center of gravity, and aerodynamic efficiency are therefore a bigger concern than negotiating obstacles.
At the end of the day, you should use the best tool for the job. If you're just driving to work, or towing/carrying the occasional load, lifting your truck probably doesn't make sense. But if you intend on using your truck to go to the farthest reaches of earth, on the harshest terrain, you're probably not going to make it in a factory consumer grade pickup truck designed for highway driving with 9 inches of ground clearance and 2 inches of sidewall on your tires. Just sayin'.
AND .... if you are lifting your truck, get bigger diameter and stronger all-Titanium Alloy axles and alloy transfers cases with aerospace-grade stainless steel fully-cyrogenically-hardened gearing and new Titanium Alloy wheels, new heavier duty springs AND some high-performance Liquid Spring suspensions! I would ALSO weld reinforcing T-rails and i-rails all along the frame to increase tensile/torsion/flexion/compressive strength on major underbody and under-frame parts.
Then blueprint the engine block and add ceramic liners and new cryo-hardened pistons, new valves, cryo-hardened camshafts and drive chain components to allow for higher engine temperatures and higher boost pressures.
You can then increase payloads and towing abilities!
And NO!, what I'm saying it isn't an insane thing to do to your truck but rather it's 30+ years of automotive/aerospace experience and high-technology software systems, CNC machining, 3D printing and specialty welding system capabilities!
V
Excellent breakdown. Owning a TRX, my payload is pretty low already from the factory and many performance truck owners just think of HP and torque when deciding to load up or tow. After I added power running boards, a bed tonneau cover, other minor modifications here and there and just carrying my family and other daily items in my truck, I am pretty close to payload max. But I knew this going in and do not plan to haul or load much if anything with this truck.
Wow at 24 minutes in the driver of the truck camper combo cuts off a semi... I bet the semi driver really loved that
you missed one big factor I've been pushing for years and you should do a video on this. say you have a basic p245-75R16 and you have a half ton truck then you put an LT245-75R16 load range E on for whatever reason maybe you go offroad and need a tougher sidewall or whatever but your door sticker says 35PSI so you set all your tires to 35PSI. did you know at 35PSI on a half ton truck that the LT load range E tires cannot properly support the weight of that vehicle? the sidewall ends up flexing more than it is supposed to leading to catastrophic tire failure. last time I looked it up if I remember correctly for that size tire you would have to run a minimum of 45 PSI to support the weight of a half ton truck with load range E tires. another instance the weight holding capacity of a tire is ignored regularly, is when people put lower profile tires on heavy duty trucks. i've had to explain to customers before that the tire and wheel choice they have made for their truck will barely hold up the weight of their truck with them in it and cannot handle the weight of passengers or any payload, the tires are maxed out even with a load range E tire. the weight holding ability of a tire is determined by more than just the sidewall stiffness the physical air mass inside the tire also determines it's weight holding ability. for example an LT225-75R16 E tire can be found on ford E150's but an E250 gets LT245-75R16's because the tire with a larger air mass can hold the weight of the heavier E250 van. people mess this up on cars too. I have a chart somewhere from when I worked at Firestone that lists out the LBS holding ability of each size tire at different tire pressures, if you know where to search you may be able to locate this information. you should check it out.
This is a huge issue in Australia. Checks have shown around 40% of people towing caravans are exceeding their vehicle’s Gross Vehicle Mass (GVM; the Australian equivalent of GVWR). With 7 to 10% of a trailer’s mass on the tow ball, it is very easy to exceed. I’m personally grappling with this at the moment. I’ve ordered an F150 XLT for its 4.5t Australian tow capacity and am investigating having to upgrade its GVM before registration because of its poor payload of 769kg (1695lbs). The equivalent Ranger XLT in Australia has a payload of 2160lbs, so on paper it is much more likely to be able to tow its (lower) 3.5t limit.
If you overdo modifications and massively exceed things like GVWR, your insurance can cancel your insurance for having "illegal modifications" on your vehicle.
I am from the Pacific Northwest I see everything lifted new old doesn't matter but their usually just daily drivers and I've been noticing 95% of these modify 4x4 are the newer Tacoma & 4Runner they all look the same with the 4x4 modifications
RVs are usually overloaded over thier GVWR even without towing anything. My class C on a E450 chassis has a GVWR of #14,500 lbs, wet weight loaded is #13,100 lbs. That leaves 1,300 lbs for passengers and supplies. Most RV owners have never weighed their rigs and think they can bring their whole house with them.
Anyone ever try and work out of a jacked up truck? Having to lift heavy things into a bed that comes up to your chest? It sucks. I’ll take my plain Jane stock dodge ram.