ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 8 พ.ค. 2017
- Click here for Stepper Motors: www.omc-stepperonline.com//?t...
Click here for Servo Motors: www.teknic.com/products/clear...
Click here for CNC Control: www.centroidcnc.com/centroid_...
Click here for Machines: www.precisionmatthews.com/ - วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
![ทททททททท #27 [หลุยส์ เค โตมายังไง ณ สระบุรี]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/CaKoYw_Xmtg/mqdefault.jpg)
A great video regarding steppers.
One small factor to consider is the inductance of both motors, generally, the higher amperage motors generally have a lower inductance. You will find that 36VDC isn't a great test for this for either motor. If you ran both motors at a voltage rated to the respective motors amperage/inductance you would have had a more accurate comparison. The reason your 3A motor is stalling at higher RPM is because the impedence drops as the RPM goes up requiring more voltage to achieve the same result as per V=IR.
A really easy way to find out what voltage you SHOULD use is to use the equation: 32*SQRT(inductance)
This will give you a minimum voltage input to your driver that suits your stepper.
We're looking at doing a video on this shortly as there is some mystery behind stepper motor selection for your CNC and the results users are getting.
Keep up the great work! awesome content :)
who cares you know...
Franco, Thank you for the great video. You mentioned Clearpath servos earlier...
I got completely fed up with steppers, hybrid steppers, smooth stepper controllers, gecko amplifiers and inexpensive BOB's. I had many problems with them and chased faults and failures for over two years. Finally, I converted my very large router with the least expensive Clearpath NEMA23 servos and the Integra 7766. The machine has been trouble free for two years with the
new setup.
Thanks for your comment. I totally get where you are coming from. The Hicon Integra is (IMO) the best motion controller you can get for Mach4. It is the only one I've found that seems to do everything correctly - but it is expensive. Like you, I was a bit disappointed with the issues SmoothStepper was presenting. That being said, there is an exciting new motion control package from Centroid geared for the DiY market. Google "Centroid Acorn" and check it out. I'm in the process of "kicking the tires" on their Acorn board and matching CNC12 Mill software. So far, I'm impressed with what I'm seeing. Stay tuned for some videos...
much more accurate ?
I'm contemplating adding a sewing machine brushless motor 3/4-1 hp as a spindle with an encoder to add threading capability to my diy lathe. Thanks for this video it helped me make up my mind as the price for the stepper is comparable to the sewing machine servo.
I'm putting a used ground THK ballscrew with 2mm lead and a closed loop stepper to my lathe's x-axis, the error doubles in diameter and the more critical dimensions are usually the diameters so I'm giving it the best shot within my budget. The closed loop steppers are now going for about 100€ for the drive and motor in Europe.
Very good information on open loop and closed loop steppers. Hope the closed loop Stepper are going to give more precise finish.
thanks Franco for info.
You are welcome.
Sir servo motor necessary for sculpture design engraving best hybrid lead shine servo motor closed loop or other brands servo motor
Hello, is it necessary to use the RS 232 cable for the safety of the CNC machine to work with the Mach3 program or is it only used to show the values? Please help and thank you very much
Nice video! Where did you buy the drivers?
A real advantage is the hybrid servo controller is 20-70V AC or 30-100V DC. Running these directly off a transformer (AC obviously) is cheap and simple! :)
Are you still liking these? I looked at the Clearpath servos, but for my small DIY CNC, I'm seriously considering these as a way to get the positive benefits of a servo system but at a lower cost.
Hi. I had the same thought as you and I intended to buy Clearpath Servos - until I added up the cost. The closed loop steppers seem to offer the same level of performance at a fraction of the cost. I'm sure there is some advantage to going with the Clearpath Servos but for my purposes (small CNC mill), the closed loop steppers are more than adequate.
Cool gemacht Danke
Curious where'd you end up with your microsteps? (mine came out of box set at 6400). I assume there is trade off between resolution and holding torque, but I don't remember where I saw the way to calculate the optimal value
lol, just saw the whitepaper link later in thread.
Cool. You can also go to 18:00 in this video: th-cam.com/video/5D7px0r0pUE/w-d-xo.html
Very helpful, thanks!
Hi! I have driver HBS860H and nema 23. Switch 7 and 8 on driver must be on or off?
Where did you the closed loop motor/driver?
What combo did you select for the PM mill?
You peaked my interest for my G0704 conversion
Hi. Purchased via eBay from Fasttobuy: www.fasttobuy.com/
X and Y Axis:
Flange: Nema23
Model: HBS860H+57HBS30
Power Supply: 36Volt
Z Axis:
Flange: Nema34
Model: HBS860H+86HBS120
Power Supply: 60Volt
Documentation is 100% Chinese so download Google Translate to your phone and use the camera function to read the wiring diagrams and instructions. The 1600 oz-in motor may be a bit of over kill for the Z-axis and you probably can get away with something smaller. I think the 425 oz-in motors are going to work well for X and Y.
If I were going open loop, then I'g use much larger motors for X and Y but in the closed loop system it seems like you can get away with smaller motors.
peaked? lol idiot it's, "piqued."
Hi Franco, I really appreciate the video. I am putting an Electronic Lead Screw on my midi-lathe (G0768) and was thinking about using the closed loop so that I can feed the output to an Arduio to make a DRO; does that make sense?
Hi Bruce. There's no rules here so anything can make sense if it works for you. Are you trying to get CNC control or do you simply want to have DRO's?
Hi Franco, I am doing a conversion to an ELS based upon Oleg A. on chipmaker.ru . He has everything set-up around an Arduino and con do all of the standard things such as tapers, threading, and regular turning. The project is in Russian but I've worked through it with google translate. Here is the link www.chipmaker.ru/topic/118083/
Did you install these on your PM-25MV mill yet? If, how do they perform? Thanks!
Hi. I haven't actually installed them on the mill just yet. I'll be sure to post a video once I do. Thanks.
Awesome, thanks!
on the hybride motor whats the cable with the computer connection for?? does it go to the encoder or the computer??? or the controller?>
I believe you are talking about the programming connection. You can plug into a serial port on a PC and configure the drive using software. I have a video on that process.
Hi! Please can you help me to know do the HB308SN need software ? Thank you
What control board and computer software do you use for this?
James Laine Hi. I started out with Mach3. I used parallel ports and Smoothstepper boards. Then, I moved to Mach4 and Hicon Integra boards. Finally, I switched over to the Centroid Acorn system. The software is great and the motion control board they bundle it with works really well.
sir Is nema 23 is closed or open lopped stepper motor ??? can you pls provide me nema 23 closed loop motor .
I have closed loop because I figured If I wanted higher resolution later I can just upgrade. I don't think closed loop will g down in price for a while. Where did you get yours?
consciouscool eBay. The seller is fasttobuy.
I have a stepper driver that shuts off my other stepper driver when I plug it in bad stepper driver?
That or the power supply is only powerful enough to run one of the steppers and it's driver at a time. Or the second driver has been misswired (Power polarity switched for example), which will either kill the power supply or more likely force it's current protection mode to kick in, disabling power to all connected devices.
Can this servo driver be used on the stepper motor you have there? Are these motors the same but one had an encoder? I have a lot of stepper motors with encoders and I'm looking for a way to do closed loop. Thanks.
Hi. Usually, the motor and the driver are a matched pair. I suppose you could try to mix and match motors and drivers but I'm not sure how well that will work. I think it's best to buy the motor and the driver at the same time as a package deal.
I noticed that some stepper drivers are closed loop that have feedback connections build in like CL57T; do you know what the difference is between using a blind stepper controller and connecting the encoder wires to a MCU like an arduino board to handle feedback versus connecting encoder directly to a close-loop driver like this? Unclear to me if there is any advantages between the two.
Until you spend a few thousand dollars, you won't get a MCU that has the horsepower to do true closed loop. Arduino in nowhere close to being able to accomplish this. Your best bet is to use closed loop motors that feed the encoder output to the driver. This usually works pretty good.
Can I just take the input from the encoder directly to the microcontroller like teensy 4 , just to keep the track of current position and then all correct the upcomming commands based on current position. Teensy is 3.3v . Will I be able to keep count?
Man mine are way louder then yours and I have mine bolted on to a welded steel frame with rubber between the motor an the frame. did you notice a sound difference with the closed loop? what do you think silence is worth?
Hi. I think the closed loop motors are quieter than the open loop. Partly because I can increase the micro steps without fear of loosing steps. I've converted all of my stuff over to closed loop motors.
Just ordered this motor and driver off ebay,
Did you use DC power to run this? If so which pin is for positive and which is for ground,
or should i just get a AC power supply?
Cheers
Hi Blake. I used DC power supplies. I don't think polarity really matters on these drives. They can accept AC or DC power. Personally, I'd recommend purchasing the motor/drive/power supply as a single bundle from the sellers. That way, you can have more confidence that what you are getting is properly matched.
thanks!
very helpful
@ Franco, do you think you can foresee any issues going forward with the Closed-Loop setup with the next project?
BTW that was scientific enough in my book! :-)
Hi. Not at this point. As far as I can tell, the closed loop stepper system is superior to a standard open loop stepper in every way (except for cost). Thanks!
hi thats two phase motor right?
did you plug it directly to 220v single phase or do you have 220v double phase outlets? thx
Hi. I live in USA. 110v 60 cycle power. I used a switching power supply.
I saw a lathe being turned by the motor by putting it in the chuck of coarse the lathe was free. how big the stepper translates to lathe speed.
Thank you i i took a few things away from this. Good video, regardless of how "scientific" you were. :p it got the point across well.
Sir which software ur used to control this dtives
Look here: www.dropbox.com/sh/a3g4dw71q4taxsd/AAARblbK4GKL5zXj8Yzfr8VHa?dl=0
you said the motor is 200 ppr as most are, but the lowest setting is 400 ppr, how did you set that up ?
Hi. The motor may be a 1.8° stepper but the drive may not allow full stepping. It's been a while since I made this video, and the memory is fading!
It's warm ! It's hot ! But I can keep my hand on it. :-)
And the sound recording quality is amazing.
Hei Franco nice and informative video you made, now, about the stepper + driver that you show in the open loop i plan to buy from ebay for an extended frame of a 6040 cnc router . The kits that they advertise is pairs of Nema 23 stepper motor 435oz-in 4.2 A + DM542A driver(which their specifications requires stepper motor up to 4 A for safety). The seller says that the 4.2A stepper is just fine because its a peak value. Do you recommend this pair or shall i choose the DM542A + Nema 23 425oz-in 3A for the safety of driver ?
Thank you in advance .
I would take the suggestion of the seller. Use what they recommend. They are correct in what they are telling you regarding the current of the motors.
@@FrancoCNC Thank you for response, i finally got the DM542A+Nema23 4,2A motor. Can you please help me with the dip switch configuration for it ?
Thank you
@@MrIonutz2008 sure. What would you like to know?
@@FrancoCNC I would like to know the dip switch arrangement for the 4.2A peak stepper motor. I've tried some combinations but it gets stall. it seems i can't find the setting for dynamic current and for microstep resolution.
Thank you.
@@MrIonutz2008 ok. I have a manual here that I can look at. SW1=off, SW2=off and SW3=off will give you 4.2amps(peak current)
SW4=off will use 50% current when the motor is stopped. This is usually best to reduce heat buildup.
SW5, SW6, SW7 and SW8 are used to set the pulses per revolution. Remember, as you increase pulses per revolution, the motion will become smoother but you will lose torque.
what is the maximum speed? whether more than 100 inches a minute is possible in closed loop?
th-cam.com/video/YZR5c3Q2S2M/w-d-xo.html
Just starting research on building my own cnc. I believe this is the same thing as using a Clearpath motor. Poking around on Ebay, I found this same thing with the servo electronics integrated into the motor much like Clearpath except not as compact, but at 40% of the price. The website is www.jmc-motor.com. It is a Chinese company, and I have no affiliation with it. The price was $90 without the power supply and you don't need the blue electronics box. So it is marginally more expensive than a stepper, but I believe it will be much better.
First, let me say that I am very new to this world and have little understanding of electronics BUT I am learning. I am looking for a more basic controller. My original intention was to purchase a TB6600 driver, a Nema 17 stepper motor and some kind of stand alone controller that will remotely turn a variable vacuum capacitor being used in a tuning network for a mag loop antenna. All I need to control is the speed (fast for coarse and slow for fine tuning), direction and possibly some way to create (virtual) end stops to avoid damaging the cap (replacement value of $200@) and stressing the motor. Can anyone point me in the right direction? Thanks.
Hi. What an interesting project! First thought is you may be in line for using an Arduino. Check these out:
www.brainy-bits.com/stepper-motor-rotary-encoder-p1/
www.dailymotion.com/video/x6ge2ri
You may need to add some additional code for end stop switches.
I just had another idea. You may be able to use a servo from an RC car:
th-cam.com/video/tVJ7FhRlhLI/w-d-xo.html
You can get really powerful RC car servos that run on anything between 6V to upwards of 12V. They have plenty of torque and there are all sorts of linkages available (for cheap) that you could adapt for your application. Truth be told - you could probably use an RC car transmitter and receiver to control your device. All the adjustments for trimming and setting end stops are all built in ready to go.
@@FrancoCNC Thank you. I'm looking into it now. Great idea! I'll let you know how it works out.
is your 542 set at 1/2 amps
I was wondering the same thing. At 1:43 it does look like it's on 1/2 amps. Switch 4 is on the off position.
Nice
If we have the possibility to put a closed loop on a stepper. why would you ever buy a servo ? isn't it the same at that point, just that the stepper is cheaper "or" ?
Hi. Steppers and servos are two totally different motor technologies. Steppers (with or without an encoder attached ) are really good at holding a fixed position. But, the smaller your microsteps become, the less torque you have while moving. Additionally, as you increase RPM on a stepper, they lose torque. Servos, on the other hand, don't have any of the limitations of steppers and they are more energy efficient. The only place a stepper beats a servo (other than price) is the ability to hold a fixed position. Steppers "lock in" like a mechanical break. All that being said, there are some awesome closed loop stepper systems that work GREAT for DIY CNC applications. But, you will never see a stepper on a "real" industrial grade CNC machine. They will always have servos.
Motor Nice 😊👌👍
Finally which one is better i think closed loop stepper moter better am i correct
You are correct. Closed loop steppers are the best.
@@FrancoCNC which stepper is consume more power
@@siddusiddu7198 Open loop steppers use more power. Closed loop steppers allow you to use a smaller motor.
You have set 2000 pulse/rev on both motor, but that is too much for the regular stepper, thats why it gets stalled. Never go over 800 on a regular stepper (I know there is even 256000, thats total nonsense).
At 1/10 microsteps (2000ppr) you can get about the 14% of the nominal torque of the motor.
www.micromo.com/media/wysiwyg/Technical-library/Stepper/6_Microstepping%20WP.pdf
If it was 425 oz-in, it becomes about 60 oz-in motor, its very weak and unstable, of course its easy to get it stalled.
Closed loop motors are much better for higher revolution and higher microsteps, your video just proved that exactly.
The rule is simple, regular stepper is fine at low rpm and low microstep, otherwise you need closed loop servo for double price.
Agree. This video is all wrong and has little real analysis between open V closed loop.
does closed loop mean you can microstep and not lose so much torque?
I see a HiCon there!
Yes sir. I picked up an Integra-Hobby Motion Controller 4-Axis125KHz based on your recommendation. So far, it looks like a really nice board with a clean plug-in. Thanks for the tip!
Franco working great on the lathe. Really tempted to upgrade that machine a little so it has full feedback, I'm just running gecko servo drives still but the threading is awesome with a good spindle encoder!
Hey - speaking of spindle encoders - I need a tutorial on how to do a one on my upcoming mill project. I've had good success with a single index pulse but I'd like to try a proper encoder, just for kicks. What are your thoughts?
Franco I mean, you went all out on the controller, why not on the spindle. I used a 1000 slot (I think) from automation direct. It is an A, B, & Z encoder. I can look up the one I used for to you if needed. The one I picked was partially because it took only minor adapting to fit the stock Hardinge spindle encoder mount. For a lathe it's essential. On the mill, not sure if you really need it. It will make the coordinated moves for tapping very nice though! My Robodrill has a proper encode like this but that is because of the need for it to be an axis to operate the tool changer. And that brought its own issues for counts per rev vs counts per degree!
That's the one. In fact, here is the description from my order "TRDA-2E1000VD Koyo encoder, incremental (quadrature), light duty, 1000 pulses / revolution, 0.25 inch shaft, 1.5 inch body, 5VDC, line driver, IP50, 2-meter cable."
How do you connect a closed loop stepper driver system, so stepper motor to driver and then driver to computer. Please make a video :)
HI Mert - check out the other videos on my channel. I think you'll find them useful.
Franco could you send me a link if you have a video in which you explain it?
th-cam.com/video/P86keX-EL-w/w-d-xo.html
Would be nice to see max rpm before it skip steps
It's rubbish that if a motor is too hot to touch then it's running too hot. If it isn't running hot then you're potentially wasting useful torque. To hot to touch is around 50/60 deg C. A stepper should easily cope with 90/100 C Hybrids can run cooler as they don't need to energise the coils if there's nothing trying to pull it out of position, as soon as something does try then it energises to correct it. A standard stepper has to remain fully energised to act effectively like a brake.
This seems like an economical choice. www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/nema23-closed-loop-stepper-motor-system-hybrid-servo-kit/hybrid-servo-drive-kl-5080h/
Thoughts?
It depends on the torque requirement. I think the price is directly related to the amount of torque.
Motors Getting too HOT???
LOL you're Feeding them w 36Volts!!!
Most of those motor were Engineered for 5V windings,
maybe 12 but NOT 36V So why are you feeding them w 36V???
BC that's what came with a CHINESE Vendor pkg.???
Well they are into SELLING stuff, but they are NOT Engineers!! and they are NOT applying the OHMS law in determining the proper POWER supply.
hmmm.maybe that's why my motors are getting hot? Well it's mainly the Z axis...can't touch it for more than 5 seconds after an hour of working.
@@keithskillz90210 specially the Z axis.
Change the voltage to 12 V MAX 15