I'm nominating this guy for the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame! He's done more for Rock Guitar and the preservation of rock guitar tones than most legendary rock guitar players. This video is two years old! Just goes to show that good information never gets old!
I'm using Mojotone's replica of that cabinet with Greenbacks, because the Marshall 2061CX is not available. The Monotone cab is a full 18" deep and a bit more stable. I agree with you 100%. Amazing!
They both sound fine. You don't notice the change when you have room mics. I'm always amazing at your collection of Marshall cabs. I didn't even know they had a 1972 2x12.
I liked the sv212 cab a bit more out of the two. That surprised me. Had more punch and I felt it would cut better in a band senario. Great job as always. Cheers!
Both sound fantastic! The 1970 cab has more low end, but like other commenters have said, use one for rhythm and the other for cutting lead tones. Great stuff as usual Johan. God bless and rock on 🎸😎👍
I actually felt like I could hear the cabinet more in the bigger setup. The studio vintage cab certainly brought out more 1-2k, which is actually a plus as well. I just wish it was possible to stuff the cab like you did and get that mid clarity without losing the low end. Someone ought to try polyfill AND porting the baffle in their sv212. I bet that would have the clarity but sound like a monster too.
great video Johan! to be honest I really liked both. their differences only highlight the need for cabinet options when recording. I have seen several people do a tour of their home studio, and they've got a half dozen or more heads going to just one option for cabinet. that has always seemed a little constrained to me. get a few good heads and a similar number of cabs and mix and match. not only will you get a nice variety of tones I believe it would be way more fun!
I actually preferred the SV212. The 4x12 probably does huge Townshend power chords better, but the SV212 had more detail, a more pronounced midrange and less extraneous bass. In a shred context I would certainly prefer it.
Not a huge difference, but you're right: The 1972 cab has a more full sound, and a vintage tone that matches the SV20H well. Marshall should check this video. Obviously nothing wrong with the stock V-Type speakers. I love that Comet guitar, and thanks for this interesting demo!
Dear Johann. I want to buy a matching 2x12 cabinet for my Marshall DSL20C & my DSL40C. My choices are the MX212 or OR2x12? Which would you recommend??? Thank you.
BOTH sound great! The old 1 is bigger, so there IS going to be MORE resonance @ some frequencies! The new cab is tighter sounding, a tad brighter & focused. The older 1 is a little more relaxed with a bit more low mid punch! But both totally WORK with this amp! Joh, DID you rec these with the backs on or OFF? Cheers!
Hi Johan. Great work, as always from you. Short question, similiar issue: How to sound big with open Cabs? Small Cabs are often open back. I have one which sounds great in the room but its difficult to mic near the front. Whats your experience? I tried to double mic a old mesa 1x12 wide (67cm!) openback with a C90. One audix i5 aimed at the cone and a sm57 for cone edge, both on axis and direct to the grill cloth. The sound is only mediocre and not that full like i hear in the room. The more I increase distance to the speaker, the sound gets a bit more clear but thin. I dont want to mic the room or the back of the cab because of practical reasons. I should switch to a closed cab? No other option? Thx for help, Master of the Cabs Johan !
Have you tried the celestion g12evh speakers? I replaced the v type with these speakers and it was a huge improvement. I don't think I've heard you play these speakers on the channel.
I haven't watched the video yet so perhaps its mentioned but I would think the center brace post from the front to the back of the cab in the SV212 would make it brighter and tighter..? I sold my SV20 and SV212 for financial reasons but I really miss both. I am thinking of building a replacement replica tilt front Cab that is a bit wider so bigger heads can fit on it. So will watch this video with interest. I really liked the V-Type speakers in my one.
On my bose head set it was like a .05 difference. I would stay with thr sv212. Just wanna see a video with 2 green backs 2 creamback. And i mix of 1 green and 1 cream.
Rippin lick at 1:50, and as much as I love800's the SV 20 and JJ2525 would create a dream machine. The SV 20 really shines with this cab. These larger 212 cabs will easily convert to a 410 (Model 1965 AB). Pair the quad of G10L-35's with the SV20 and it will scream Vintage Plexi w/the 810.
I have tried to love the V type speakers but I just can't bond with them . I replaced the V type in my DSL with a creamback 65 and I am much happier and for my extension cabs nothing does it for my like like G12H30s whether they be 55Hz or 75Hz . I even love the G12H30 anniversary which many don't like . People call it too mid scooped but I don't hear that. Has plenty of mids to my ear even if it does not have the mids of the heritage versions of the H30.
Maybe some acoustic foam on the bottom panel would be worth a try Johan. imho would soften the lowest frequencies curve down but at least extend 'em , probably improving the middle gamma. Cheers mate keep it rocking!
I have the SV20H half stack and love it. also a genzbenz with 2 x 12 celestion vintage 30/16 ohm. you would love the glorious sound. your friend in tone, Norman Mozley
Awesome tone with your Krystin there Johan, you gave the SV and the cabs some proper spanking proven by the shaking cam 😄 I actually like the SV cab much more, sounds fuller and punchier, even if maybe not so traditional. Boxiness is probably quite subjective. The 1972 seems somehow more scooped or lacking in the midrange IMO.
from my alert I thought this was going to be 'Is the Studio Vintage too small? to which I was thinking, well it not when first buying one for the home, especially if you've only owned small combo's, but then you get used to it in the space, you think 'actually could of got a 4x12 cab without triggering divorce'! on the other hand, you could put a SC20 stack next to it, tons of tonal possibilities 😀
I think that both are fine. I'm not sure how old your SV212 is but I find that speakers are a lot like acoustic guitars and they sound better with age. I have cabinets that look like something out of an apocalypse movie that sounds better than anything new.
Awesome vid Johan! SV212 is super cool looking and sounding but at $1200 in the US right now it might be the most overpriced piece of music gear in the country.
Hello Johan, as I was suspecting I think the "culprit" of the thinner and boxy sound is due to the cabinet of the Sv212, in fact with the 1972 Cab the V type speakrs sound just right, classic british bite with fullness added; as a paradox the very last link in the signal chain is the most sensitive to the final sound( just like a post rec eq indeed)! Cheers!
hey how are you my friend I know it may be a little bit irrelevant for the topic today but I have to ask you a question what do you think about the celestion redbacks for bass guitar
I notice a difference in the mids. The smaller cab has more upper mids, the bigger has more lower mids. A little e.q. adjustment can remedy that. Or an e.q. pedal in the effects loop.
I have a SC212 cab that I actually prefer for home recording as I think the bass remains tighter than with either of my 4x12s, especially at home volumes. The 4x12s sound better to me overall but they're close enough that the size and tightness of the SC212 are a fair trade-off. I feel like the narrow 212 cabs are a nice pairing with the lower-wattage 5/20w heads.
Johan, have you done any testing with EQ pedals in front of an amp to get a reissue greenback to sound closer to the old ones? I would love to hear a Boss GE-7 or a Wampler equator parametric EQ in a test like that. Both great pedals which I have, but I don't have a vintage Celestion myself. Just curious if that would be effective.
The 1972 sounds bigger. However I've definitely heard big-sounding 2x12s that had a smaller footprint than that. The SV212 does sound a bit lean. I imagine that whether it was a problem or not would depend upon the specific mix. I've had great results with a small-body 4x12 in the past, but I didn't have a larger one to a/b it with. Also, in the smaller cabinet, I can hear some of that trebly edge in the V-type speakers, where the 1972 sounds bigger. I'm convinced that the 1972 is better, but I'm not entirely convinced that its size is the only reason.
Hi there! May I ask something bit off-topic but related to Marshall? :) Does DSL20CR combo, which you reviewed bit ago, make hissing noise when it is idle (or guitar sound fading out (gain/volume are low)). Bought this model as a my first tube amp and now can't make a decision should I return it or is it completely normal for tube sound and I am just simply not accustomed yet. Searching on the web gave controversial opinions - some say the it should be almost dead silent and they already returned couple of DSL20CR and some say it is inherent sound of almost all tube amps. Thanks!
Anyone own the studio 2x12 cab and can explain if it compares to a 4x12 angled cab? Meaning, does it have that looser rounded low end bump that angled cabs tend to have over straight cabs?
Both cabs sound really good but as you said, the Studio Vintage cab sounds narrowly focused by comparison and more punchy. It's sort of similar to comparing a 1960A to a 1960B cab.
Definitely a different midrange. More full with the older cab. Is that more lower mids I hear with the older cab? Or is it just middle mids and I hear more upper mids with the newer cab? You tell me Johan. lol
Bigger sounds best. I think it's always better to keep the cabinet resonance below the frequency range of the guitar / amp. Less interference. When the cab resonance is within the range of the guitar sound, you get that "bcardboard box" sound. Guess It will not be as noticable with open back cabs.
Maybe the new is a little bit more silent than the old but if you want something for home use it's fine and I think it's good for live shows I played three live with a box valvetronix so this sure is much better
Definitely the bigger cab improve the tone a lot is way more plexi sounding and better balanced with more low end,I would say it recover some of the smoothness of the vintage amp
I'm so glad you make so many cabinet videos, I think it's like 60% of the sound and gets so overlooked
Glad to hear it!
I'm nominating this guy for the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame! He's done more for Rock Guitar and the preservation of rock guitar tones than most legendary rock guitar players.
This video is two years old! Just goes to show that good information never gets old!
Both sound great - use the 1972 for rhythm tones, and the SV212 for lead tones!
With my SV20 head I use the 2061cx with greenbacks . It has diagonal mounted speakers, and sounds phenomenal ! 🎸🔊😊
Yeah I like that cab too
Yeah I was thinking how that one would compare, too.
someone else recommended that same combination to me a while back, just couldn't find that cab at the time.
I use the same cab (2061CX) with a V-type and a Creamback 65 - sound huge!
I'm using Mojotone's replica of that cabinet with Greenbacks, because the Marshall 2061CX is not available. The Monotone cab is a full 18" deep and a bit more stable. I agree with you 100%. Amazing!
They both sound fine. You don't notice the change when you have room mics. I'm always amazing at your collection of Marshall cabs. I didn't even know they had a 1972 2x12.
Thanks man!
do a search for Marshall 197x catalog. Is interesting to say the least
I liked the sv212 cab a bit more out of the two. That surprised me. Had more punch and I felt it would cut better in a band senario. Great job as always.
Cheers!
i would say Scenario. italian word
Both sound fantastic! The 1970 cab has more low end, but like other commenters have said, use one for rhythm and the other for cutting lead tones. Great stuff as usual Johan. God bless and rock on 🎸😎👍
Wow that guitar sounds absolutely fantastic! Its bright & punchy and sounds alot like like AC/DC!
Thanks! Glad you notice! This guitar just screams Malcolm! I love it
@@JohanSegeborn glad that you're enjoying it! 🎸
Either of those cabs + the Nordin + Johan nail THE tone for me. Perfect.
Agreed, it all sounds good
I actually felt like I could hear the cabinet more in the bigger setup. The studio vintage cab certainly brought out more 1-2k, which is actually a plus as well. I just wish it was possible to stuff the cab like you did and get that mid clarity without losing the low end. Someone ought to try polyfill AND porting the baffle in their sv212. I bet that would have the clarity but sound like a monster too.
great video Johan! to be honest I really liked both. their differences only highlight the need for cabinet options when recording. I have seen several people do a tour of their home studio, and they've got a half dozen or more heads going to just one option for cabinet. that has always seemed a little constrained to me. get a few good heads and a similar number of cabs and mix and match. not only will you get a nice variety of tones I believe it would be way more fun!
Thanks! Yeah I even have more cabs than amps
I actually preferred the SV212. The 4x12 probably does huge Townshend power chords better, but the SV212 had more detail, a more pronounced midrange and less extraneous bass. In a shred context I would certainly prefer it.
Perhaps some of the difference comes down to the slant shape vs straight shape, which you explored in an older video on 4x12 cabs?
Great test, I definitely prefer the 1972 in this case.
But it would be interesting to compare these to a 1961 cab. 🙂
Both sound great. Kinda subtle like speakers. Bravo
Not a huge difference, but you're right: The 1972 cab has a more full sound, and a vintage tone that matches the SV20H well. Marshall should check this video.
Obviously nothing wrong with the stock V-Type speakers.
I love that Comet guitar, and thanks for this interesting demo!
Thanks Bengt! Glad you like the guitar!
I used a Marshall 1936 for many years, nice. Norman
Your "hi" is legendary
Thanks my friend! :-)
Wow it is a huge difference, I am going to make a larger one. Could you please give me the dimensions of the big cab. Just length x width x depth.
Dear Johann. I want to buy a matching 2x12 cabinet for my Marshall DSL20C & my DSL40C. My choices are the MX212 or OR2x12? Which would you recommend??? Thank you.
Great rhythm sound! Really gnarly. I think I like the smaller cab best. Smaller sound definitely, but nice and direct too.
BOTH sound great! The old 1 is bigger, so there IS going to be MORE resonance @ some frequencies! The new cab is tighter sounding, a tad brighter & focused. The older 1 is a little more relaxed with a bit more low mid punch! But both totally WORK with this amp!
Joh, DID you rec these with the backs on or OFF? Cheers!
Hi Johan. Great work, as always from you. Short question, similiar issue: How to sound big with open Cabs? Small Cabs are often open back. I have one which sounds great in the room but its difficult to mic near the front. Whats your experience? I tried to double mic a old mesa 1x12 wide (67cm!) openback with a C90. One audix i5 aimed at the cone and a sm57 for cone edge, both on axis and direct to the grill cloth. The sound is only mediocre and not that full like i hear in the room. The more I increase distance to the speaker, the sound gets a bit more clear but thin. I dont want to mic the room or the back of the cab because of practical reasons. I should switch to a closed cab? No other option? Thx for help, Master of the Cabs Johan !
Johan: Do you (or any followers) know the baffle thickness and rear panel thickness on that 1972 cab? Thx!
Have you tried the celestion g12evh speakers? I replaced the v type with these speakers and it was a huge improvement. I don't think I've heard you play these speakers on the channel.
The larger cab sounds better. Would be interesting to cycle other pairs through these cabs to see if this is always the case.
Would be interesting hear the sv20 20 with 2 larger 2x12 and see how it sound
Enjoying these SV20 videos 👍I thought the new one had some nice tight punch , but would grab that older cab in a heartbeat..
I haven't watched the video yet so perhaps its mentioned but I would think the center brace post from the front to the back of the cab in the SV212 would make it brighter and tighter..?
I sold my SV20 and SV212 for financial reasons but I really miss both. I am thinking of building a replacement replica tilt front Cab that is a bit wider so bigger heads can fit on it. So will watch this video with interest. I really liked the V-Type speakers in my one.
I really like the V-type Celestions. It’s such a versatile speaker.
those speakers sound awesome in both cabs
Thanks Andy!
On my bose head set it was like a .05 difference. I would stay with thr sv212.
Just wanna see a video with 2 green backs 2 creamback. And i mix of 1 green and 1 cream.
Rippin lick at 1:50, and as much as I love800's the SV 20 and JJ2525 would create a dream machine. The SV 20 really shines with this cab. These larger 212 cabs will easily convert to a 410 (Model 1965 AB). Pair the quad of G10L-35's with the SV20 and it will scream Vintage Plexi w/the 810.
V-Type sounds exceptional with short scale twin humbucker guitars, adding some useful brightness. Totally good loudspeaker.
This guitar is actually 25”
I have tried to love the V type speakers but I just can't bond with them . I replaced the V type in my DSL with a creamback 65 and I am much happier and for my extension cabs nothing does it for my like like G12H30s whether they be 55Hz or 75Hz . I even love the G12H30 anniversary which many don't like . People call it too mid scooped but I don't hear that. Has plenty of mids to my ear even if it does not have the mids of the heritage versions of the H30.
Maybe some acoustic foam on the bottom panel would be worth a try Johan. imho would soften the lowest frequencies curve down but at least extend 'em , probably improving the middle gamma. Cheers mate keep it rocking!
I have the SV20H half stack and love it. also a genzbenz with 2 x 12 celestion vintage 30/16 ohm. you would love the glorious sound. your friend in tone, Norman Mozley
Awesome tone with your Krystin there Johan, you gave the SV and the cabs some proper spanking proven by the shaking cam 😄 I actually like the SV cab much more, sounds fuller and punchier, even if maybe not so traditional. Boxiness is probably quite subjective. The 1972 seems somehow more scooped or lacking in the midrange IMO.
Thanks Alan! :-)
from my alert I thought this was going to be 'Is the Studio Vintage too small? to which I was thinking, well it not when first buying one for the home, especially if you've only owned small combo's, but then you get used to it in the space, you think 'actually could of got a 4x12 cab without triggering divorce'! on the other hand, you could put a SC20 stack next to it, tons of tonal possibilities 😀
I wonder how much the difference in sound is due to the internal volume of the cabs vs the quality/age of the wood used.
That guitar is starting to grow on me
Yeah, I love it too!
I think that both are fine. I'm not sure how old your SV212 is but I find that speakers are a lot like acoustic guitars and they sound better with age. I have cabinets that look like something out of an apocalypse movie that sounds better than anything new.
Both sound great indeed and the larger cab gives a bit more bottom end. I kinda missed that creamy top end from the Greenbacks though
Awesome vid Johan! SV212 is super cool looking and sounding but at $1200 in the US right now it might be the most overpriced piece of music gear in the country.
I can see why you say 'boxy', but sometimes I like boxy!
Nice video as always
Great video. Thanks and cheers. 👍
Hello Johan, as I was suspecting I think the "culprit" of the thinner and boxy sound is due to the cabinet of the Sv212, in fact with the 1972 Cab the V type speakrs sound just right, classic british bite with fullness added; as a paradox the very last link in the signal chain is the most sensitive to the final sound( just like a post rec eq indeed)! Cheers!
I think I like the small cab a little better. That B chord rips on both though! Wow!
Both sound great. The1970 is a little fuller just because it's a bigger box. So I call this a tie! Cheers Johan!
Not too small to sound big but it definitely sounds smaller than the 1972 cab. I was surprised by how much of a difference could be heard.
Thanks
hey how are you my friend I know it may be a little bit irrelevant for the topic today but I have to ask you a question what do you think about the celestion redbacks for bass guitar
I notice a difference in the mids. The smaller cab has more upper mids, the bigger has more lower mids. A little e.q. adjustment can remedy that. Or an e.q. pedal in the effects loop.
Wonderful video
I have a SC212 cab that I actually prefer for home recording as I think the bass remains tighter than with either of my 4x12s, especially at home volumes. The 4x12s sound better to me overall but they're close enough that the size and tightness of the SC212 are a fair trade-off. I feel like the narrow 212 cabs are a nice pairing with the lower-wattage 5/20w heads.
definitely more body with the 1972 but the SV also sounds great. What do you think of the V type speakers Johan?
They’re good speakers. They’re bright and need to be miked with dark mics or with adapted mic positions
I liked the smaller cab, tight low end response
Johan, have you done any testing with EQ pedals in front of an amp to get a reissue greenback to sound closer to the old ones? I would love to hear a Boss GE-7 or a Wampler equator parametric EQ in a test like that. Both great pedals which I have, but I don't have a vintage Celestion myself. Just curious if that would be effective.
Hi! I haven’t tried EQ pedals but EQ matching works beautifully th-cam.com/video/4rWKZKJi0OU/w-d-xo.html
@@JohanSegeborn omg I totally forgot about that! Thanks!
Nice video!
In my honest opinion, the best 2x12 Marshall cabinet is the 2061CX but this 1972 sounds fantastic as well.
I agree. I have the 2061cx and it's excellent
I have a 2061CX loaded with G12H 55Hz Celestions...amazing...
The 1972 sounds bigger. However I've definitely heard big-sounding 2x12s that had a smaller footprint than that. The SV212 does sound a bit lean. I imagine that whether it was a problem or not would depend upon the specific mix. I've had great results with a small-body 4x12 in the past, but I didn't have a larger one to a/b it with. Also, in the smaller cabinet, I can hear some of that trebly edge in the V-type speakers, where the 1972 sounds bigger. I'm convinced that the 1972 is better, but I'm not entirely convinced that its size is the only reason.
Would love to see the studio vintage cab w/ EVH speakers (broken in)👍🇨🇦🎸🙏🏻
Hi there! May I ask something bit off-topic but related to Marshall? :)
Does DSL20CR combo, which you reviewed bit ago, make hissing noise when it is idle (or guitar sound fading out (gain/volume are low)). Bought this model as a my first tube amp and now can't make a decision should I return it or is it completely normal for tube sound and I am just simply not accustomed yet. Searching on the web gave controversial opinions - some say the it should be almost dead silent and they already returned couple of DSL20CR and some say it is inherent sound of almost all tube amps. Thanks!
Its the amp. I went through 5 of those trying to find one without all the white noise. Just get the dsl100hr Great at low volume and whisper quiet
@@andrewquimby2499 I see. I guess 100W will be overkill for me
Maybe the 1972 cabinet sounded too big? I thought it spread out the energy into too many frequencies. I liked where the smaller cabinet sat.
liking the v types
Anyone own the studio 2x12 cab and can explain if it compares to a 4x12 angled cab?
Meaning, does it have that looser rounded low end bump that angled cabs tend to have over straight cabs?
Definitely like the big cab better, but the narrower one would work for leads. Maybe A/B a set would work as a good concert combo.
Both cabs sound really good but as you said, the Studio Vintage cab sounds narrowly focused by comparison and more punchy. It's sort of similar to comparing a 1960A to a 1960B cab.
2:42 Man that vertical cab roars. The palm muted string sounds like an angry dog. I prefer it over the 4x12 can in this case
This video confirms that I really don't like oversized cabs for 212 or 412.
Real similar !
Did u leave the backs off?
The backs were on!
Definitely a different midrange. More full with the older cab. Is that more lower mids I hear with the older cab? Or is it just middle mids and I hear more upper mids with the newer cab? You tell me Johan. lol
Hi! I think the older cab has less of 400-500Hz
@@JohanSegeborn Cool thanks!
Bigger sounds best. I think it's always better to keep the cabinet resonance below the frequency range of the guitar / amp. Less interference. When the cab resonance is within the range of the guitar sound, you get that "bcardboard box" sound. Guess It will not be as noticable with open back cabs.
Yeah I prefer to run the SV212 open back. It was closed here though
The 1972 cab had more depth and roundness to the tone, a bigger cab and a bigger more focused sound. Thanks Johan.
Maybe the new is a little bit more silent than the old but if you want something for home use it's fine and I think it's good for live shows I played three live with a box valvetronix so this sure is much better
Im using 2 (212's) spaced apart !!!.👉🤘🤘👈
Definitely the bigger cab improve the tone a lot is way more plexi sounding and better balanced with more low end,I would say it recover some of the smoothness of the vintage amp
Благодарю Вас! Очень интересный обзор и сравнение. 1972 2x12 звучит заметно лучше, жирнее, наполненнее!
Suprisingly, I prefer the new cab here..at least with the V types.
The new cab is punchier with these speakers
the larger cab wins hands down
Howlin' for you!
o7o7o
i liked a little bit more the vintage cab, but generally speaking i don't like the v types
Sv is a little fizzy, I prefer the 1972 with more body, but less defined…
Thanks for your video johan…
I prefer the SV
Sv 2x 12 sounds better. Tighter, cleaner.
Don't do this with the Studio Classic 2x12or you'll be hearing from my lawyers.
Yea the small one is too punchy and can't 'breathe' properly because of it. The poor thing is hyperventilating