Longsword Sparring - Fiore dei Liberi Would Want You To Fight With All Of It
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 5 ต.ค. 2024
- Filmed during an Exiles Instructors Weekend. This short series of clips covers some high level principles around the importance of approaching longsword sparring with the entire art in mind.
Cheers
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The modern recreation of Medieval Combat based on the Art of Fiore dei Liberi.
Wrestling, Grappling and Striking
Dagger
Sword in one and two hands and halfswording
Spear and Poleaxe
Improvised weapons
All Armoured and Unarmored
#Swords #Fioredeiliberi #HEMA
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I'm glad that you cover half-swording not only being for armor. I've found myself using it more in unarmored sword sparring as often the large modern gloves that we use make a lot of stretto techniques difficult, but turning your point and grabbing your own blade isn't so bad and is something that one can practice on their own.
What I really like about Fiore is that it works really well in limited space. If you're on battlefield formation or a corridor and cannot jump around and circle the opponent sniping at the hands, then the only way is forward, and then you go into grappling naturally. And that's where Fiore's plays really shine. Anyway, that's what I learned when I did fiore for a couple years in my youth.
I agree though I'll say Meyer does have plays in the bind still. Fiore fan myself.
Something we can agree on Sir....the number of times I have spared with someone (including instructors) and they freeze when I close and grab/push them... its always confused me... amused me but confusing. Glad its not just me seeing this.
Definitely not just you. I'm not a skilled longsword fencer as I don't actually study or practice any longsword techniques. What I am is old & out of shape. But I still meet with a shocking amount of success at free play against otherwise superior opponents just by being a half-decent judoka-able to close confidently and feel out a bit of leverage. To be clear there are plenty of capable longsword users who can reliably take me apart, but there are also plenty who have studied, trained and are reasonably skilled who nevertheless cannot handle themselves in a grapple. More importantly they don't have a good sense of how quickly and at what distances a grapple can happen. If they did, they might be fast & sure enough to control distance and use their skill (or my lack of it) to prevent my closing. But after more than ten years visiting clubs and attending events I still find it surprising how many people seem to have a blind spot when it comes to that very important space between fencing and wrestling.
The HEMA I do have a bit of skill with is 16th-17th century Iberian stuff. A set of systems that also put a significant emphasis on grappling (movements of conclusion). The Fiore people I meet often speak of the centrality of grappling and dagger work to the system. If I ever decided to get into longsword I'm pretty sure Fiore is where I'd want to go.
Very interesting, you're definitely right that the wider hema community seems to have a blind spot.
I've come to a similar but differing conclusion in that I found that I _go_ into stretto, while I _have to_ use half-swording, because the "car crash" as you describe it locks out most of the Stretto techniques. Made a video about it recently:
th-cam.com/video/yZJ04Gz8Y2E/w-d-xo.html
And I think Fiore was trying to teach this as well, since as you point out a lot of his plays end up going into half-swording, so I've read it as him going "so long as you push forward you will inevitably end up at this extremely close distance."
Watched your vid at x1.5.
Lots to agree with in it!
I think there are times when you have to half-sword. We must remember that these techniques must work both in and out or armour. For sure there times when Stretto plays are easier, more accessible and with certain criteria more devastating to apply. However half-swording is equally the same. I think there’s a general nervousness about half swording out there - it’s hard to train and apply safely and difficult to place within the overall art. I think this leads people to see halfsword as a nice-to-do rather than an important, necessary part of the overall picture.
I think that the key is training enough with all aspects to appreciate when either (indeed all) principles from the art could and should be applied. Some of this is driven from the art and some is what individuals prefer.
We must also bear in mind that if things get to this range, then the opponent (as in the envisioned medieval opponent) is likely pretty good and so will be very versed in the possibilities too.
Thanks for the vid and the comment!
@@theexiles7919 Yeah I made the video with modern fencers in mind, so the context is a little skewed for this conversation.
Also, the interesting thing (to my mind) about my conclusion was that I did not reach it while fencing in my old Fiore club (where everyone was at the least, familiar with Stretto as it was about half of what we trained time-wise) but in a tournament against someone I had never before fought, but who was extremely insistent on bringing the fight to wrestling distance with such aggression that I couldn't get a hit on him at range, nor could I find a suitable Stretto technique to use on him. Car crash is a term I'm going to use from here on; it's very apt.
@@Sinistralian
Do
More
Vids!
You have good thoughts worth sharing.
Cheers
@@theexiles7919 Thanks, will do!