Modern F Hole Vs. Vintage Oval Hole Mandolin Comparison
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Thank you. I was assigned as a violist but I identify as a mandolinist. Finally figured out why oval appeals to me when so many more experienced players encouraged me to seriously consider f-hole.
Bowed instruments have better sustain than plucked. The oval has better sustain.
Violas are the poorest projecting of the violin family. So I get that there's a trade off between sustain and projection, but I don't think that worries me bc I'm already used to that from playing viola.
I'm not in the vintage gibson price range. I'm looking for my first step up from a walmart bargain deal I started on bc I wasn't sure I wanted to do this. But 2 years in I 💜💜💜 playing mandolin, and I think the oval hole is the mandolin for converted viola players. :)
Just now read this, Did you ever pick an upgrade?
Excellent comparison video. F-hole sounded brighter & sharper, while the A was warmer, with deeper bass. I have owned many vintage Gibson A style and love that sound. Even had a '13 F-4 for a bit. My favorite was a '24 A1 Snakehead, blackface. That one stole my heart, for sure. Thanks again for doing this comparison.
The round hole one has a fuller and more bass sound .
It was a helpful comparison, thanks! Now I know I definitely wants an oval hole mandolin. You said it might not hold up to that classic bluegrass chop, and that's a relief, because it seems that everything I play on my f hole mandolin ends up sounding a bit bluegrassy! No disrespect towards bluegrass, but I play Swedish folk music and for that I prefer the fuller, bassier sound.
I agree, I have that very 24' snakehead mandolin (mine's black) and that fuller sound is nicer for folk music.That was a good tip on the picks, my mando does'nt care for anything thicker than a 1.21. I play swedish music too, also old timey and mazurka tunes.Great stuff
I play pretty much modern music- far from the bluegrass and country styles. Do you think an oval hole would better suit me? I dislike the almost whiney sound of the higher strings on my f hole Mando.
@@rocker99908 Then maybe you need a lower tuned instrument, like a mandola (which is a fifth lower than a mandolin) or an octave mandolin (an octave lower than a mandolin).
I think you’re right. F holes are great in a band, and hard to beat because they cut right through the mix. That’s why you can put a good one right up against a banjo and still hear it. But for solo, folkie type stuff I really prefer the mellower sound of the oval hole. That being said, I once had the privilege of playing an old Gibson A-style oval hole mandolin and it was something else entirely. They are incredible instruments and sound amazing in and of themselves so it’s really hard to do direct comparisons as they are all unique.
The roundhole has has an interesting guitar-esque punch when you hit the low strings.
Thank you so much for this. I've been looking to get a new/old mandolin as my 1930's Kalamazoo is cracking in it's 4th place. I love the sound of the old Gibsons but had never thought about getting an oval hole mando until I saw this video. Now that is what I will be looking for! Thank you!
I'm getting a mandoline for my birthday, your video are a great help, appreciate your videos, your a great teacher
oval hole more delicate, f hole more focused and direct
The best sounding mandolins I have found for a couple hundred bucks are the WW1 design flat rat hole..sent to the troups ... a round hole and a thin flat body, but they sound amazing..this cool old guy makes them in Missouri..I have 4 now..really bright tone and made here
The F style mandolin sounds like it's being played on a tiny pocket transistor radio speaker. The Gibson has a full sound.
Very well executed demo. Especially the scales, even very high up; I only miss a few slow chords.
Your demo is very useful for evaluation of the instruments, contrary to most others, that just hammer away, trying to demonstrate their own prowess and not that of the instrument.
Thank You.
And now start filling the piggy bank, for a Gibson A oval hole, before Loar ;-)
Very nice job making this comparison -- many wonder about this difference and you've given a good general demonstration on the different tonal characteristics of oval versus f-hole mandolins. Of course two different mandolins might give a slightly different comparative picture -- but I believe that the overall effect will be similar. Oval-hole mandolins have sustain, "roundness", favor bass tones, and often give a sweet sound and with good sustain. OTOH, F-hole produce a sharper, brighter, typically more staccato sound with faster sound die off (less sustain) and often a more penetrating sound which is why bluegrass player like them for chopping? I wonder who the four morons who down thumbed this video are?
That Ellis is the most beautiful instrument ever made. Who cares how it sounds? ;-)
I honestly think that old Gibson is the best looking instrument
If playing with an acoustic miced group w/vocals, guitar, mando and string bass than I'd go with the f hole. The oval hole would go better with a solo vocalist as the sound is much more full. They both sound great, though.
The oval hole has a more ample and open sound and also lower.
Wow, that Gibson really rings out!
I like the f-hole one better, it sounds more violin like, the O-hole would be better paired with an octave mandolin as it sounds more guitar like.
0:02 happy new year..........
Gibson sounds a lot mellower and I wonder if it's capable of standing out in a band setting
Thanks for the video. The only fair comparison is the same model guitar one with f hole the other oval. The oval is richer but would the one sound better with an oval not f hole. Anyone do that direct kind of test. Thanks again.
Just wondering if you may have purchased that Gibson from Music Folk in St. Louis ?
Thank you, you have confirmed that I need to buy an Oval to have w/ my F hole. Shouldn't it be F holes? 😁
Thank u sir im from india
I really have wanted an oval or round hole Gibson for years......but I'm Still using my 90s Alvarez A100......laminated top so it never improves....just like my playing...lol....
does anyone know the name of tune that was played at the end?
Oval 199% 😍
How many times did you accidentally say “a-hole” mandolin? I would have a lot. :)
I call mine an A-hole, all the time, and i have no issue with it.
Round hole for me.
Not just any oval holed mandolin, that's a 24' snakehead. arguably the best sounding of the old gibson A models.
and that F hole is not any F hole mando. Ellis mandolins mandolins are world class and start in the $6000 range new
Best sounding? In what sense? Or according to whom? I am asking a sincere question. Did anyone collectively grade or rate their sound?
These Gibsons are so inconsistent it's crazy to think you can really generalize between different eras
The Gibson has a much more mellow and richer tone.
which is wonderful playing alone or with just one more instrument, but when you get into an ensemble situation the clarity and cut of the F hole mandolin is much better in the mix.
@@davevann1730 Stole my Thunder Dave.... exactly what I was gonna add.....
Gibson!
You gets these two in a bluegrass band with a driving banjo and you'll see fast why most bluegrass mandolinist want the F hole variety....
The Gibson has a larger sound. The Gibson also appears to be very good no matter the genre you're playing. At least with my ears and the speakers I'm hearing it through.
The Gibson was way better for me. Maybe in 80 years the Ellis will sound as good.
I like both sounds.
I have two mandolins, a Kentucky 505 f-hole and an Eastman 404 oval hole. I switch back and forth depending on what tune I'm playing.
That's what I was thinking I like both depending on song. I just have a bowel back and I like it, I am just starting with the mandolin...
Although they both sound good, the old timer has a distinguished sound and more bass to it than the other. When it got to about the 5:08 mark it seemed like the old man started calling the other, a young whipper snapper! Youngin got sent to bed, but had dinner!😉👍🤣
Hi! Thanks for the video, very interesting to compare these two...
By the way, does anybody know a good modern alternative to Gibson A style mandolins?
1924 Snakehead, Loar era. Does it have a Virzi in it. I would expect any 96 year old Gibson is going to sound very different than one only ten years old. They both sound very nice. I'll take the Gibson, please.
I was thinking while watching that it wouldn't have sounded as good as it does today when it was new. It's got so much aging and drying and other wonderful things that time does to wood happening,. The newer F hole one sounds great, but it's not really a fair comparison just because a 10 year old 20 thousand dollar mandolin won't sound anywhere near as good as it will 100 years from now.
@@KevinWale modern makers strive to acheive that aged sound iwithout waiting around for it, and some come do it, maybe thats why they cost 6,000 like that ellis
Long time oval hole admirer and player here. Nothing like the Gibson A series from the early 19 teens to '24/'25 snake heads. Nothing like that deeper sound off the low register..
Great sounds regardless of the f/hole. Intesting to me is how the sound of the strings change when you play an open string compared to fretted strings. We spend hours finding the right pick(s) style of mandolin, but nothing about balancing the sound of the strings. Look at instruments made in Europe and other places that use a zero fret which takes this balance into account. Classical bowl backed mandolins - zero frets mostly. I talked with a local luthier about a zero fret in making me a mandolin and he had zero knowledge of it. Pun intended. It simplifies the whole nut installation process and makes fretting the 1st fret so much easier with less pressure. Sorry for running on with this subject.
That old mandolin has had a lot more time to mellow. They are both very different instruments ... and probably different in materials and construction techniques. It is had to attribute the obvious differences in tone to the differences in sound holes. A better comparison would be between a F-Hole A Style Mandolin and an Oval Hole A Style Mandolin of the same manufacturer and the same materials, finishes and Age of course. Thanks for the demo. I must admit that, to my ears, I like the sound of the Gibson.
I would use "f-hole" for strumming and the second-one for soloing, in terms of studio work.
I personally feel the opposite. f-hole has more clear/defined tone for each note while oval hole has fuller sound when playing chords. However, I think it's very situational i.e. genre of music
Also, each instrument sound different, so..
To what extent is the sound differences between the instruments positively due to the hole differences? I'm a guitar player and most acoustic guitars have round holes but the differences in their voices can be as great or greater than the differences between these two mandos.
What about the italian style mandolin ?
Do you mean the bowl mandolins?
@@Christian-my4dp i guess. i have one of those, that look like a small lute. its round or egg shaped at the back.
They are called potato bugs. Kinda inconvenient shape, on the other hand a flat backed instrument is somewhat muted by the back being muffled. And the bowl of the potato bug acts as a parabola, and focuses the sound out of the front.
Excellent video. I slightly but consistently preferred the sound of the oval hole, except when fingering chop chords. Then the preference for one over the other was extreme. So as a bluegrass picker on a Weber Fern f hole, I can remain content! I think the many, many decades of mellowing tone maybe gave the oval hole its advantage for many picking styles, not so much just the hole shape.
The old one has more low, I prefer that one.
Older instruments often open up over time and produce a warmer tone.
I'm an oval hole kinda guy myself. I appreciate the open, fuller sound of that lower register. An F-4 style is my dream mando. But I'm a lefty so affordable options are limited.
My ears are probably not that good but the f hole sounded more open to me and less nasal tone.
I like them both. Looks like I have to open the wallet a little wider.
The difference I hear is f-hole is sharper. The o-hole is more sustained. The o-hole has a more guitar sound.
I have both kind of mandolins and can say that oval hole mandolin has more powerful sound, stronger bass, and generally attacky, louder.
F-hole mandolin has softer and more bluesy sound.
It depends which kind of music to play, which kind of wood it made. Pattern of braces construction inside, even how much of glue is used, how many paint layers are applied on.
The same as everything, mandolin is in the ears and eyes of the beholder.
I appreciate the differences in sound but have to question how influential the holes are in this brief study of two very different instruments.
Thanks for that video! It was really informative. I went to your class at FH. Enjoy your teaching
Nobody can chop it up or play a stringed instrument better than Spuds MacKenzie!
th-cam.com/video/h0GJer4Qbx8/w-d-xo.html
I find myself accompanying more folk guitarists these days and was looking to replace my A style F hole with an oval. But I recently found an Eastman 815V (F style, F hole, hand rubbed varnish) that has the best sustain I've ever heard coming from an F hole while still having a very sharp and loud chop. It's really changed my thinking about mandolin tone and I've received a lot of compliments on the sound. I also use the heavy Dunlops.
Both of those instruments are sweet, but that Gibson is just to die for. Very nice!
Thank you for this!! I had myself convinced I wanted an oval hole mandolin and everyone thought I was being picky, but I was right!!
Thanks for this. I was wondering what the difference between f and oval mandos was, in my neck of the woods there are not a lot of music stores that stock either. Sounds to me like when I upgrade it will be time to go for an oval hole.
Nicely done. Being a guitar picker, I got no dog in this fight. But the old Mando has something the other does not. Both sound gorgeous. Are there any innovative Mando makers? A sound hole on the side of the upper bout on my new guitar has changed my guitar playing. Innovative Mando - Any?
Bowl back mandolins sound best IMO
I'd rather play the f hole styled because it looks so much better
oval has more woody sound,and more projection. great info,thanks for sharing !!
Great job, man. Thank you
ස්තූතියි .🌹❤🇱🇰👍
Wow the 1924 Gibson is wonderful.
The Gibson sounds more rooted in its predecesor insturment, the lute.
Love the sound of that Gibson
Yeah, Baron, I think mine is an A-hole, for sure.
It definitely sounds different from the F-hole.
Anyway, I am starting to like it, a lot more, now that I have learned to mute the g-string. (I also wrapped the bottom of all strings with leather strips.)
Really cool
Is the f hole maple and the gibson mahogany?
Happy new year! I’d prefer the old one!
I have a 1922 A2 and it sounds like your Snakehead. The next question, even though we know that individual mandolins of the same ilk have their own voice is, do not truss rod paddle heads sound all that much different than truss rodded Gibson Snakeheads from the 20's?
The Gibson sounds if it has a loose top brace.
I would guess the Gibson is worth more.
Gibson singt....super. Grüße aus Köln
So, at least tell us where has this old mandolin was stored al these years, or who was using it? Somehow it survived without falling apart. Very interesting how it got into your hands.
Cool. Like The Gibson best
I like the Oval hole better
A thought-provoking comparison. Perhaps you could borrow a pair of new mandolins of the same brand and model, one F and one A, to give a closer apples-to-apples comparison. Still, you provide wonderful videos and I'm glad to be one of your contributors. Keep up the good work and stay safe and healthy!
This is a really great comparison. It’s nice to hear the two side by side playing the same piece so you can really understand the difference.
Now I’m thinking most of what I’m playing would be better suited for the oval hole, which I’ve never really considered.
Thanks for doing this.
Thank you, this is really cool. I also have a 1921 A2 and a modern F hole A model Morris mandolin. I think the comparisons are pretty similar. I really like the Morris because it has a radius fretboard so for me, it seems easier to play. Once again, thanks.
Ooooh, that oval hole one sounds so sweet and warm! I bought an f-hole, but as far as I can remember back, it is not easy to buy a decent oval hole for a decent price in Europe.* Or any mandolin, but f-holes tend to be kinda available.
*I didn't want to deal with customs to order from the US...
I don't own a mando (yet!) but the difference seems to be the same as for guitars. F-hole guitars were made not for the tone but to be louder so they could be heard in jazz bands, like the banjo it replaced. So it makes sense that the oval hole has a sound more like a flat topped guitar. I think when the time comes I will go for oval holed.
I was able to listen and tell the change in instrument without looking up. I think the O one sounds more like my guitar, I like the different character of the F . The O was a more deadened sound, although it did have a rounder warm tone. I think it would very much depend on the style of music. For fiddle and bluegrass I think the F , and for ballads and laments the O . This does show the reason for having one of each , thanks ! My Question is does the F shaped mandolin differ in sound to the A shaped one ?
I have an F-hole, having an oval hole A-style built by Elloree Guitars, can't wait to hear how it sounds and compares....seeing this gives me hope, loved the sound of that old Gibson!
Very helpful video! I love the old Gibson sound for more of a folksy, early ‘70s Elton (Davey Johnstone) sound.
Oval holes always sound great at first but F holes have a lot of complexity in tones that can be extracted with good technique. Oval holes might be said to be a bit limited in tonal variety.
One important thing to consider is the top bracing. Do you know how their are braced ? X or A braces ? I think Ellis goes for the A brace pattern, and I think Gibson used both in that era.
i have a flat handmaded mandolin and although the sound is good i think the wood is thicker than a normal mandolin and its doesnt sound loud enough compared to other mandolins. Is there any possibility to change the sound of the mandolin?
they both sound nice but i think the f-hole sounds ringy and bright
The other difference between the two : 1.The Ellis is a longer scale. 2.The Bracing. Fun Show! Thanks again!
In my opinion the oval hole sounds better for solo playing, and the f hole sounds better if it were played in a group with other instruments.
imo f hole is better for chords, but the round hole is better for melody. would have been even better with a cooker grill...
the vintage reminds me of the Brazilian mandolin that followed the influence of the Portuguese viola
Granted, the older wood is gonna have a warmer tone anyway.
Thank you so much for taking the time for us to hear these two sounds sode by side. Appreciated
I was wondering if I wanted to make a request for how to play a song how would I go about that?
They played out about the way I thought they would.
Thanks for the video!
What's the tune at 4:19 ?
It is "Shove That Pigs Foot Farther In The Fire"
@@earlelfrink Thank you!
That is the strongest voiced oval hole Gibson A that I have heard both for amplitude and tone. Good one!
Those Loar era A's were special. I have owned a bunch of teens vintage A's, then came into a '24 A1 black face, snakehead. It was amazing. I also owned a 1913 F4 at the time, so many comparisons happened. Loved them both, but continually gravitated to the '24 Loar era A1. It may well be the sweetest mandolin I've ever owned.
I think they both sound great, i would be proud to own either one 👍.
Those are both nice, i would be happy to own either one 👍🇺🇸.
Thanks. Very helpful and informative.