The 13th Warrior (Norse Expert's Thoughts)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 2 ธ.ค. 2021
- Thoughts on The 13th Warrior (1999) from an Old Norse specialist (note: not a movie critic).
Jackson Crawford, Ph.D.: Sharing real expertise in Norse language and myth with people hungry to learn, free of both ivory tower elitism and the agendas of self-appointed gurus. Visit jacksonwcrawford.com/ (includes bio and linked list of all videos).
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I never understood the hate for 13th Warrior. Honestly it's a favorite of mine. I won't say much about the historicity of the film but it was a great popcorn flick! It doesn't seem like any attempt to make a historical film, just a fun action version of the Beowulf(ish) tale.
BTW, congrats on the Great Courses release! I'll have to pick it up.
I know Crichton himself called it a retelling of Beowulf, and it kind of is, but it still felt more like a retelling of The Magnificent Seven to me, with just the whole Mother thing being a throwaway Beowulf element.
I rather liked the film and I'm not an easy person to please. The climax was so well done that it alone made the movie worth the price of admission.
Beowulf is a MYTH ... and IMO this movie is an attempt to "make it realistic / how it could have happened". So no "real" dragon or magical creatures ...
"... It's made of honey!"
Gets me every time!
14:00 That scene is in the novel too. Buliwyf asks if ibn Fadlan can "draw sounds", and in part Buliwyf is nervous about the written word, associating it with sorcery, but he also later reproduces exactly what ibn Fadlan had written to check if he had been honest, and Buliwyf's ultimate motive is to get ibn Fadlan to write down his story so that Buliwyf will gain lasting fame.
(Yes, I've read the novel at least 4 times. It's really good.)
16.00 The Venus-from-Willendorpf figurine is in the book too. I don't remember how it is in the movie, and archeologically, I have no "sense" that such figurines have been found in Scandinavia.
23:00 I think it makes some sense for the slave woman to follow the religion of the land she has been taken to. She is in the land of a particular set of gods, and so those are the ones that are relevant. Unlike Abrahamics, people who subscribed to Indo-European religions, whether Norse or Slavic, were very rarely dogmatic about it, and not often fanatic.
Also, the 1970s novel's portrayal of the Muslim point-of-view character is certainly interesting.
Eaters of the Dead is NOT Ibn Fadlan's account, and it doesn't matter here. Crawford probably means it's not in the translation of Ibn Fadlan. Eaters of the Dead is a fiction meshing Ibn's account with Beowulf. While I haven't had the chance yet to read the translation of Ibn Fadlan, I seriously doubt such an event took place, if I am wrong, then I am wrong. I'm tracking down a translation as I type this.
In the novel itself, however, I get the impression that Buliwyf was quite aware of writing (even if he didn't know Arabic, he was probably aware of whatever was native, be it runes or whatever, realistically, he would also have been aware of Latin, and possibly early Old High German, even if he didn't understand them either.), and was testing Ibn Fadlan's claim to be able to write.
@@jamesmccrea4871
The first five-or-or chapters are based on ibn Fadlan's writings, I seem to recall Crichton saying. The rest is made up.
When "Beowulf and Grendel," filmed in Iceland, came out, I rented it with great anticipation, and was appalled by the way it deconstructed the story. In order to clean my palate, I had to watch "The 13th Warrior" again. For all its faults, "The 13th Warrior" takes the story, and the hero, seriously.
Was that the version directed by the Icelandic / Canadian, sorry can’t remember his name . Not the version with Angelina Jolie
@@mariapalmer5671 Yes 😉
The character that Ibn Fadlan befriends most is Herger. I think you first hear his name during the cave scenes.
The actor is a Dennis Storhøi, who steals the show to be honest.
The duel with the three shields was an amazing scene thanks to Storhøi.
Herger is definitely my favorite character! Great, fun movie.
I think Sharif was frustrated because the movie he shot was a sprawling David Lean-esque epic. But the studio took the movie away from the director and reshot a bunch of it and make it into an action movie.
I think the reason they were shouting “Odin” in that scene is to see if the voice echos which would mean it’s bouncing off something I.e. land since it was foggy and hard to see, like how Bats use echolocation in the dark. That’s just my theory tho idk
I always thought they were listening for someone to yell back since they were sailing for a known place that had friendly residents.
Yeah "Odin" possibly to keep the idea of Odin in your mind. As the one shouting is supposed to have an Odin like character. It's more apparent in the book.
i agree, Ace...
I agree about the echolocation
As to why shout Odin's name, seems to me Odin's connection with Breath plays into both Wind and Fog
Of course it could easily be that they just picked a "famous" God name, as so many tv shows and movies do
That is what they were doing. This film is extremely historically well researched and done.
The end battle in that movie is awesome. Bulwyfe's death is a perfect scene. Fadlan's prayer is one of the best I have ever heard. I pray not for victory, but to live these last few moments well. Perfect.
I noticed that in the 13th Warrior, the character with the tattoos (Skeld) was also the most superstitious of them, and I put those two things together in my mind: I think his tattoos were protective spells.
I think he may have been a Scot,though I could be mistaken.
Yet he died early on despite all of the protective measures, if that's what they were. Too bad, I rather liked the character.
A hobby-sailer friend of mine said that the shouting in fog is an old version of "echo-ping". An astute listener can get a rough idea how far away land is by how the echoed sound changes.I guess they could've shouted any name they wanted to but just used Odin because the chief god of the Vikings must always be Odin in pop-culture view.
Well, he is undeniably the chief-god of the Vikings insofar as our medieval sources from the Viking Age itself are concerned. That said, I think Thor is more overused in pop-culture than Odin is.
@@kolsveinnskraevolding I'm not so certain. Everywhere I look I see brosatrus and face-value-vikings going ham over Hail Odin for this and that, hail to Odin for whateveritis, Hail Odin yadda-yadda... Sometimes I wonder if they are even aware that other gods and goddesses have a major role as well....
That's what I thought it was, too! But didn't know any sailors to ask. Thanks!
@@ServantOfOdin Most of those folks are, as you say, face-value OR have yet to do their homework (and lets be honest here, there's a lot of homework to do about all the various gods and such-like, to say nothing of the scandi mythological monsters and critters and things). Thor was likely revered far more than Odin, so to Hamza's point it isn't overdone; Thor was a protector of Midgard and was highly relatable, though I agree that he was not at all the only protector of Midgard and he was most certainly not the only one venerated as a 'matter of course'. Heck, I think Odin veneration is far more overdone these days, and I say that as someone who DOES venerate Odin more than the others.
In Norse Heathen circles, among those who have done their homework, I'm a bit of a nut to venerate Odin so much. He ain't a nice guy. Wise, sure. Capable of compassion, absolutely. But he's also one devious, bloody, murderous, dude. Nasty piece of work. The whole point of the Valkyrie and his dead warriors in Valholdt is to build an army (the greatest army) that he hopes to use to change his fate (his own demise) foretold to him. Shady and with serious ulterior motives. Throwing praise and worship to Odin around willy-nilly isn't, uh, 'wise'. For me, I was in a very bad way and I called, I chose him. He answered. He's gonna come to collect one day, and that's fine. It's only death.
@@SoulSoundMuisc That's alright, everyone has their focus-god depending on their personal preferences, choices or likings. If people are aware of the price they will hve to pay then that is fine.
My favorite thing about that movie is it's awesome for one liners! My friends and I often quote the film when together. Once at a formal gala My friend says while lifting his fork at dinner, "I can not lift this, to which someone replied; grow stronger. 🤣
One liners are the best 😂
Lol so do I. I need friends that get that reference...lol
Hells yeah. Hubby and I used to do that too. If one of us was struggling to pronounce something the other would just nod and say "Ibn".
When you die.can I give that to my daughter?
🤣
@@xroadwalker - Give the man a sword and he makes a knife!
I haven't read the novel in a very long time, but my memory of it includes a prologue that explains the motivations for writing the novel. My (hazy) recollection is that part of Critchton's goal was to create a narrative that hits the beats of Beowulf but develops them in a context where they are not supernatural in nature. Basically, a "how could this be real" scenario. Hence the lost tribe element not being culturally Norse, and the local superstitions causing them to be _interpreted_ as monsters or dragons, when they're really just secretive people.
Yeah and the author also says it started as a bet with a friend that classic like Beowulf could be modernized for current generations. With the historical stuff he said he wrote it all down and put it aside for a while and forgot what was actually from historical sources and what was made up. But decided to just write and finish it anyway. Something like that.
Ehh. In the book, while not supernatural, the lost tribe weren't just secretive people, but a race of relic Neanderthals that survived into the early middle ages, which is a borderline sci-fi element. Probably the most disappointing aspect of the movie is them being turned into just ordinary people.
I never read the book ... but that is precisely how the movie feels like. Obviously there are things which are "cut" and made a lot more heroic, but as a general theme the feeling of realism is at the front line.
13th Warrior is one of the few movies I can watch without losing it at the anachronisms. I enjoy it so much that I wore out two VHS copies
This remains one of my most favorite movies of all time! There exists nothing like it and I never get tired of re-watching it. The cinematography is unparalleled the storyline is original, interesting and refreshing. Who ever was responsible for giving this film a bad review has got to be nothing less than a complete moron! This is clearly without a doubt one of the greatest most epic adventure films that has ever existed! I have seen every decent action/adventure film that exists and this one stands alone and at the top.
I'd be interested in your thoughts on Kirk Douglas's The Vikings (1958). I've heard it was a labor of love, that he wanted to be as accurate as they'd allow him.
Who can forget when Buliwyf sat down at the end to die, a True King?
"They think they're bears". The worst monsters are other people.
Regarding the Venus figurines from the stone age:
Most are from 26,000-21,000 years ago, when Scandinavia was covered by glaciers. (Except for western Jutland, but it was still a frozen tundra) The yungest is 11,000 years old.
No figurines of that kind has been found in Scandinavia. The oldest figurines from Denmark are made from amber and are depicting animals like bear, boar, bison, etc.
Oh, and there's no connection to Neanderthals making/having/using figurines.
As a dane i remember when this came out in the cinema, i was there opening night, they had hired professional fantasy larpers to fight before the movie... the accuracy is horrid, but its a fantasy movie and i still love it,
As someone who has always liked that movie (it’s in my top ten), this video made me happy.
I think It makes sense for Ibn Fadlan to call Valhalla a Paradise, since he doesn't have any other conception of an afterlife. Interesting that Ibn Fadlan recites Genesis instead of the Fathiha or something, but I guess it echoes Beowulf and makes more sense to a Western audience.
I hadn't realised the film was referencing Beowulf there, it always made more sense to mea that he would have recited from Surah al Imran about the battle of Badr.
I agree. Interpreting "paradise" as how a Muslim would hear "vallholl" makes perfect sense to me.
I can definitely say that this movie is in my top 5 favorite movies in general. Since it’s release, I have watched it 100 times if not more Lol. I love your videos and listening to your knowledge. Thank you for your time in reviewing this film.
Love this movie, still watch it today. Thanks for the info.
I've loved this movie for a long time, and always felt that while being full of fantasy and artistic liberty, it does have a few really nice accurate or accurate-adjacent details in it. It's nice to have those feelings validated by Dr. Crawford
This remains one of my most favorite movies of all time! There exists nothing like it and I never get tired of re-watching it. The cinematography is unparalleled the storyline is original, interesting and refreshing. Who ever was responsible for giving this film a bad review has got to be nothing less than a complete moron! This is clearly without a doubt one of the greatest most epic adventure films that has ever existed! I have seen every decent action/adventure film that exists and this one stands alone and at the top.
One of my Favorite movies and I was today years old when Dr Crawford informed me it was Beowulf. I can totally understand not wanting to wade into the swamp that is pop culture vikings. They are very fetishized right now i agree, but as someone trying to break into historical reenactment, experts like you are needed now more than ever to help sort the fact from the fiction... or the accurate fiction from the drivel!
It does help to study proper history and it can be hard to without raiding college libraries it seems.
I've always studied what I could find so my gains are more in gear and phases of cultural development but yeah man.
You'd think Hollywood would just invest in some mailed and quit making leather crap.
But they don't quit most of their nasty bad habits. Good luck out there.
Looking into HEMA myself, been training in it since I was a kid basically, took years to even hear about it online.
I was thinking about this movie recently. I think I will have to rewatch it now. Appreciate the insight on the movie, and hoping for more spontaneous reviews on media.
Thank you Jackson for sharing your thoughts and expertise to all us Norse Nerds.
From the yellow leaf covered sidewalks of a Sacramento suburb, I'm wishing you all the best.
I'm a birder and work with birds in a zoo. Incorrect bird calls drives me nuts. I'm there with you.
The bird song problem reminds me of my reading of the _The Mists of Avalon_ by Marion Zimmer Bradley. The plants mentioned in the book were all American. I actually found it quite disturbing to have King Arthur and choke-cherries in the same location.
Ironically Alan Wilson has discussions and details some of the Arthurian legends did involve the Americas. But otherwise I agree.
There's times I try to research old European dishes but very little survived the colonial boom, tomatoes and potatoes everywhere.
As a horticulturist, had that same problem with Sean Connery’s ‘Medicine Man’ - hard to concentrate on the dialog when every tropical plant in every scene is “screaming it’s name” at me. 😆
@@OlWolf1011 If you want more such pain, try _Greenfingers._ A British comedy with Helen Mirren playing a gardening expert. Pointing at plants and calling them by the name in the script rather than their real names. How wonderful to have a plant flowering as a major plot point. If only they had used the actual plant.
I do not know much about bird sounds, but when I saw the 13th Warrior, I noticed Western red cedars in one of the forest scenes, a tree species from the Pacific Northwest that is not native to Scandinavia. Sometimes knowing too much spoils the fun a bit ;-)
I vote for more fireside chats and readings of sagas/stories. They make me feel like a drengr listening to a skald in the king's hall the night before we leave to go raid the English.
@@Catonius Go away, troll.
'God forbid I mention beard styles...' is a golden nugget of off-the-cuff comedy, I'm inclined to add.
One of my favorite action movies. Thanks for your insight.
I laughed at his comment about North American bird sounds in the movie. I'm like that with horses in movies and shows. Every time I see a large Friesian or Quarter Horse running through the ancient Arabian Desert, my eyes roll into the back of my head.
Did you watch 13th Warrior? What did you think?
Ahmed Ibn Fadlan was mocked for his small horse, but supposedly historically his horse should have been way larger than theirs. Lol
@@xinic5 The Rus actors are all riding large draft breeds. I could see a Percheron and a Clydesdale in that scene. In reality, they would be riding shorter (13-14 hands,) stockier medium size ponies that would be shorter than the Arabian horse (14-15h) Antonio Banderas was riding. But short horses with large men on them don't look cinematically appealing,so I'm okay with them using the larger drafts in the movie.
The Norse ponies, like Fjords, were under the Wendol. Someone in the Rus area should have been on something more like Akhals or Tekes. Draft breeds that are tall are almost all nineteenth century. The big horses of the day were the descendants of the Persian Nisaeans in the Near East. If anyone should have been on those , it was the fellows from Baghdad.
The 13th warrior was the gateway for a lot of people into North culture. Watched it when it was released and loved it. Still do!
Maybe the most Sahara dry critique of a movie ever and I LOVE it :) Oh please do more! He even put in something about the birds he can hear, such an awesome detail I never thought about, nor would I as I hardly even know what sounds which birds make lol.
You're a champ, Dr. Crawford!
As someone with a lot of tattoos I've noticed that people whiteout any (especially from a culture that isn't used to them) will often refer to people with two or three small to medium visible tattoos as ''heavily tattooed''. The term heavily tattooed is subjective. I believe the modern idea of Vikings being covered in tattoos comes from the contemporary western idea of being heavily tattooed Vs an account from over 1000 years ago from someone not accustomed to it.
This holds a special place in my heart. I remember seeing it in theaters and being blown away. I know a lot of it isn't accurate with the garb and such but, this movie was the catalyst for delving into Scandinavian and Viking Age stuff. Then I became a Norse Polytheist a few years later. So 13th Warrior helped me find my Path.
This remains one of my most favorite movies of all time! There exists nothing like it and I never get tired of re-watching it. The cinematography is unparalleled the storyline is original, interesting and refreshing. Who ever was responsible for giving this film a bad review has got to be nothing less than a complete moron! This is clearly without a doubt one of the greatest most epic adventure films that has ever existed! I have seen every decent action/adventure film that exists and this one stands alone and at the top.
The 13th Warrior was what got me interested in Norse history! When I was like, 9, we watched it while camping out on my aunts screened in porch. Next morning we woke up and all this fog had rolled in off the lake and we Freaked. Out. Like Norse monsters were gonna come out of a South Carolina swamp... Never forgot it and it's still one of my favorite movies. The book is very good too!
My man ...the background is absolutely amazing behind you...listening to your critique is as Amazing
I liked that movie as a child; I'll watch it again ;)
I appreciate your willingness to analyze more pop culture stuff even if it's not your favorite thing to do.
As bad as Annihilation was, the first Mortal Kombat is a classic, though.
I agree. If you leave commenting on what's in the cultural zeitgeist to the uniformed you are a bonding the the battlefield of ideas to the uninformed. You shouldn't feel compelled to react to everything, but pure silence probably isn't great either. I love here where you didn't just rail against what's wrong, but took time to highlight what was done well or showed healthy respect for the sources. Having input like that, or how a few tweaks might improve an interpretation are both enriching and uplifting. I hope experts like you keep being tapped to improve and elevate the art of creatives/producers.
One of my favorite movies - and pretty much the direct reason I focused on studying the Viking period as an undergrad Medieval Studies major.
The helmets and armours make me scream internally but I really love this movie.
Id really like a whole series on various "viking" movies.
Considering that they range from long outlawed gladiator helmet to the fancy plate of a Renaissance noble, yeah, the first time I watched it my brain hurt until the story sucked me in.
I love this movie so much, the book too. Always appreciate Dr Crawford's takes though, just makes that part of history so much more colorful and awesome:)
Apparently McTiernan & Crichton had a lot of creative differences, and could not agree on a final edit.
Hopefully one day we will get a director's cut.
I'm part Finnish (dad's first language) and this has been one of my favorite movies since it came out and I am literally so desperate to hear Tom's story I so hope he is willing to share with us 🖤
This is one of my favorite movies. It’s enough off of reality I’ve never had any realism issues with it and am thus able to enjoy a good yarn for its own sake.
I was enchanted by the film. I was amazed by the language learning scene. All the Norse seemed Norse enough.
I'd love to hear your take on the Norse content of Hellblade: Senua's Sacrifice.
I like your very realistic, relaxed approach to reviewing the movie and its inspirations. Great and informative
When I got a notification, for this particular video, I got pretty excited! This was one of my more favorite movies, growing up (I was about 10 or 11, at the time). Very much appreciate your take on it, especially coming from someone who studies in these fields.
Thank you! I've been reluctant to even with the 13th Warrior. Now I'm going to give it a shot based on your review. I appreciate you taking the time to do this video!
14:15 - You were discussing a point in the film, around the 21:26 mark, where the expedition was approaching the shore of Scandinavia. The Vikings were shouting Odin into the mist, and you said you didn't know why. Seems to me that they were listening to the echoes, trying to determine how close to shore they were without running aground. That is why, when an echo was detected, the archer started firing arrows ahead of the ship. They were listening to determine if the arrow dropped into the sea, or struck something solid. Sort of a 10th century collision alarm, I suppose.
I watched the Viking funeral video and it was great. All I can say is I'm an avid follower of your channel and I've seen almost all of your videos. I genuinely enjoy your pragmatic perception and opinions about everything you talk about. Please keep up the great work Mr. Crawford. There are those of us that greatly appreciate your generous distribution of knowledge.
My big gripe with the story: Fadlan must have been near Saratov on the Volga when he met up with Bullwyf's party. From there it is 1000 miles (straight line) to Riga on horseback. It is 1000 miles more to get to Norway (to find 400' cliffs dropping into the sea). What was the travel time? King Hrothgar couldn't find a closer ally while his people were being eaten?
It’s a bit of a stretch yeah. But if they average 20 miles a day it’s less than 2 months journey, which I’m sure everyone in the time was used to looong delays in most every aspect of life.
@@Panzer_the_Merganser Yup. In a time before fodoora, uber and amazon, things apparently didn't come nearly instantly, and people were used to that. ^,^
Remember, in the story, Buliwyf is the son of Hrothgar's friend. So, he might be more willing to help him than a neighboring king who might see Hrothgar as a rival.
Love the film, love the book. Omar Sharif was disappointed that the film was not a financial success. He quit through frustration with the movie business.
Do not fortell me wife or I will get no supper when I get home tonight, lol. Always remembered that one.
Love this movie.......based on real ppl and events. You are one of the few who can correctly critique it. Thank you. 🤗
Sad that there where no 14th warrior but glad the first one got twelve sequels 🥲
Love all your input. Ty for your time. Skal
In the book the explanation for the boy waiting at the ship makes more sense: it's because there is mist, so the boy is giving everyone on land a chance see him and the ship so that they are not mistaken for invaders as they might be if they suddenly appear out of the mist.
"I'm not Riff Tracks"
Now you've done it, I demand a riff tracks of this now damn you!
Always a pleasure
The crossing of those two worlds jarred me a bit . My brain started lagging trying to imagine Jackson Crawford doing a riff tracks .
I quit looking for anything other than 2ish hours of entertainment in movies ages ago- but I am a bit of a historical costuming nerd so it was either take things with the proverbial grain of salt or have conniptions about darts, princess seams, and corsetery styles in everything :-) ... forgot to add this- Not enough coffee but I really liked 13th Warrior- I actually saw it with an Arabic friend who did Viking reenactment :-)
Stay amazing Jackson. When I recently saw this, about the only thing I was amused by it was that they at least had human looking vikings as opposed to the Gucci Modern ones in Vikings and The Last Kingdom.
Love this type of content! Thanks dr Crawford!
I actually picked up the "Norns as weavers" idea from a Choose Your Own Adventure book I read as a kid.
I think I read that one in Danish translation. I might even still have it.
The title is The Trumpet of Terror by Deborah Lerme Goodman. Had to find it after this video jogged my memory on it.
I always really enjoyed this film, so I was disappointed when I learned that it wasn't received well when it came out. It's a nice surprise to see an actual scholar have some positive things to say about it. It makes me feel less crazy for liking it lol.
Thanks Jackson. I hope you make more forays into the pandemonium that is popculture haha.
This remains one of my most favorite movies of all time! There exists nothing like it and I never get tired of re-watching it. The cinematography is unparalleled the storyline is original, interesting and refreshing. Who ever was responsible for giving this film a bad review has got to be nothing less than a complete moron! This is clearly without a doubt one of the greatest most epic adventure films that has ever existed! I have seen every decent action/adventure film that exists and this one stands alone and at the top.
You may not like to give your opinion on these things; but I think it is good that you shared it. We know that YOU know what you’re talking about. This helps those learning, to not pick up bad information.
When I was in art school, I was amazed at how many people thought Marvel Thor was THE Thor from mythology. I couldn’t believe it.
I'm very pleased to hear that this is one of your favorite "Viking" movies, because I felt the same way. I had read ibn Fadlan's account before I saw it and it was a real pleasure to recognize elements of that story. I also really liked the way the movie treated what could have been a fantasy premise in a science-fictional way, proposing a rational if somewhat weird and horrifying explanation. It fit well with how seriously the movie took the difficulty of languager acquisition.
I loved hearing your thoughts on this. Ive loved that movie as a bit of a guilty pleasure. I appreciate that you expressed the relevance of context in how this movie portrays its influences. It's tough to separate what I want something to be, like viking history, and what it really is. But you've shown me that the reality can be just as engaging and often more interesting than the fetishized version in popular culture. Great job Dr.Jackson.
Loved this! Thanks for your views.
I had this film on vhs as a kid I loved it as an adventure film. After reading Beowulf I realised it was a reworking and that made me like it more...compared to some more recent try’s it’s pretty good.
Watching The 13th Warrior in around 2003 got me interested in Viking culture and eventually led me to you, so spotting this video on your channel felt like a strange coincidence. My personal interest journey crossed your creative output, but in examining this intersection I discovered my own footprints from decades ago. I'm pretty relieved to hear you don't hate this film, for its various faults and foibles. As you said, it's a product of its time and couldn't be made again now.
This will probably piss people off, but what got me interested in vikings was a combination of this movie, reading Beowulf and my English teacher going on and on about Vikings. I think she had a "big Viking of a man" fetish the way she described them...lol
Which was also weird because being a 6'4 or 6'5 bearded teenager, she had me stand up to demonstrate just how short Ahmed Ibn Fadlan might have felt around the Vikings...
Very entertaining. I am glad I found your channel.
What makes Michael Crichton novels so compelling is that at the very beginning he references a real document, often crisscrossing history and science, and then interweaves that reference into his story.
Easily one of my favorite movies. One of my favorite parts of the movie that you didn't mention, was when Ibn Fadlan and his guide were first trying to communicate at the encampment, started with Arabic (which at this point is portrayed as modern English) and then switched to Greek, to which the "three shields" man replies in Latin. And that always seemed like it made half-sense to me; Persians would have been well acquainted with Greek, as it was the language of the Roman Empire at the time. But Latin was only widely understood in northern Europe among educated people. Alfred (the English king) lamented the loss of Latin in his time specifically due to the burning of monasteries by Danish raiders. So it seems very unlikely to me that some swede in a camp would know Latin. The "anachronistic" armor actually seems much more likely, because the physical remnants of Rome were still lying around, and who knows where all these vikings raided? I do not like the horses though. They are way way too big.
"The anachronistic armor" is largely from much later periods though, ie. Buliwyf wearing something that looks like XV-XVI cent plate armor.
@@davidweihe6052 Thats a different guy. Youre correct though, theres also some ancient armor as well. Its all really just a random mix of what they though "looks cool", I mean one of the dudes is literally wearing a XVI cent morion helmet heh
Thing is Romans stopped being a thing like that centuries earlier, the Gothic period saw the most adaptation of armor styles between tribal and Roman with joining and leaving with the gear.
As in Roman gear was effectively modern military gear to most warriors.
Five centuries later, a bronze chest plate can still work but you aren't talking a relic from the Huns and Hebrew rebels. I'm not an expert on Roman gear, and yes some would have disparities, but a better idea may be Grendel and Beowulf.
Also generally you add to armor. Plates still go over maille, or are made in a complimentary way. You'd be immensely lucky to randomly find armor and have it fit you well unless you happen to be extremely average.
Even Roman segments were mass produced then customized to fit a recruit. No doubt you can have armor made to your liking or get it second hand but to preserve armor from the 200s-300s or even 500s and then keep it nice into the 900s it's basically an heirloom that wasn't crash tested heavily.
This remains one of my most favorite movies of all time! There exists nothing like it and I never get tired of re-watching it. The cinematography is unparalleled the storyline is original, interesting and refreshing. Who ever was responsible for giving this film a bad review has got to be nothing less than a complete moron! This is clearly without a doubt one of the greatest most epic adventure films that has ever existed! I have seen every decent action/adventure film that exists and this one stands alone and at the top.
Dr Crawford that was highly enjoyable! I have been reading Viking Age literature since 1973 ( starting as a young teenager with Henry Treece's novels) and quickly went on to reading any scholarly text I could find, as well as beginning to teach myself Modern Icelandic in 1976.
I wish I had attempted to enter academia in this subject back then but that didn't happen so it is just been a hobby over these years. I certainly know a bit about the subject and I also think the 13th warrior is my favourite Viking movie.
You hit on many of the best take aways, funny enough my favourite that has always stuck with me is when the Ibn Fadlan character is huddling near the bow in a huge sea, miserable, and the Vikings are having a great time and a big laugh. That really resonated with me, I spent many years surfing and I know what it feels like to be in such harmony with big waves that it's just exhilarating fun. Another favourite thing from the movie is that part you mention when he starts to understand the Norse and they portray his hearing a mix of English and Norse.
I have never been that great with my Icelandic mainly because I've never been there and been immersed but since Covid lockdowns I have discovered all sorts of great resources where I can listen constantly each day. Lately I find myself hearing rapid Icelandic and I have that same experience where suddenly it just sounds like English to me and with a start I realise that it's not English.
As a side note it also suprises me that I don't have much trouble with Gordon's excerpts or reading my Islenzk Fornrit versions of Brennu Njal and Egil saga Skallagrímssonar.
Just one last idea, when I first saw the film I was thrown by the hodgepodge of armour and weapons especially by the gladiatorial helmet but later, thinking about it, I realised that if this was set in the time of Beowulf then there could've been armour around hundreds of years old, perhaps from families who had been Late Roman auxiliaries?
Anyway well done and please make more like this. I already get a great deal from your scholarly videos, many thanks
Great comment. Thank you for your insight. Could you please forward some of those resources you deem valuable for learning modern Icelandic? It is difficult to find imo. Thank you.
"It's all bad and unrealistic"
There ya go, a universal review.😂
Glad to see you tackle 13th Warrior. It is one of our favorites, my wife and I. We don't take it too seriously but has some great lines. The funeral prayer is a favorite. It was somewhat different in Crichtons book so the lines were modified for the book to sound better.
One of our desert island movies, I was glad to see such a positive take. I know it’s not totally authentic to the time period but in many ways it feels authentic or genuine. The characters come across as more real people than many other Viking movies and tv shows full of very stereotyped pop culture characters. We’ve watched it many times and love it each time. My husband chooses it frequently when it’s his turn to pick for movie nights. I’m so glad to see that it’s still loved by so many.
You really shouldn't listen to people telling you what to do with your channel. You've enjoyed some serious success by just putting out all the excellent knowledge and understanding you have for what is actually quite an obscure subject. Maybe people are slow to click on videos like the actual translations - but that doesn't mean they're not valued or wanted. For myself, I'm not likely to watch a video of about 15 - 30 minutes because it's fairly short - I can watch it during lunch. But the longer ones - I save those for when I've got a pile of sewing to do. Listening to you talk about something for an hour while stiching something is really blissful!
And given how your subs have expanded - all without any pop culture stuff in here - should show you you're totally the right track. Your videos are pure gold: original, stylish, erudite and fascinating - plus beautifully framed and filmed, by a very handsome man with a gorgeous speaking voice. I will never stop being thrilled by the way you sign off your videos, tipping your hat like a 19th century gentleman! But the info you provide! It's so difficult to find anything of this quality anywhere else! You of all people don't NEED to plug into the pop culture zeitgeist!
If you do want to leaven the scholarly stuff with something lighter, something like your old ranch porch series would be nice. I realise - with great sympathy - that you may not have a ranch porch any more - but that kind of thing was really nice.
That said, I'm vaguely more likely to watch The Thirteenth Warrior now than I was ;p I heard it was quite bad (I can't remember, but I probably did read Omar Sharif;s opinion of it), but you made it sound watchable.
One thought that did occur though, was, maybe talk about how you feel about the inaccuracies. I've always been struck by Tolkien's suggestion (possibly influenced by the Brothers Grimm) that stories are influenced by the needs of the society which tells them, and to understand them we need to look at the differences instead of the similarities. Looking at Thor and Loki in the MCU vs. how they appear in the Eddas with that in mind could be quite interesting. And how the 'south' has seen Odin since the 19th century is very much how the MCU seemed to present him, although the 'kindly old grandpa' image was always shown as being superficial, even from the first Thor film. Odin is a reformed monster by the time he casts out Thor in the first film - having him played by the same actor who was Hannibal Lecter was very cool...
Anyway, Jackson, just basically wanted to say how much I love your channel exactly the way it is and how much I don't want you to change it unless you really want to. And in this video, you really didn't seem happy. Please be happy. Please always do you.
I love this movie, so glad your talking about it.
I am glad you have decided to start doing this. It's okay to let your hair down a bit, Dr. Crawford.
From now on, I shall only watch these kinds of movies AFTER I have listened to Dr. Crawford's personal, historical and academic take on them. Thanks!
Jackson keep making great educational material .. I love the videos brother , as a 2nd generation danish , Swedish American they are extremely enlightening.
I'm glad you chose to critique this movie. My father's people were from Norway, came to America to be farmers and join the military. When I watched this movie, the big names producing it, the research, etc, we all thought it might be a glimpse back in time to things that may have happened, not necessarily the story line itself but their response to this ancient evil that's plaguing this old king. The banding together from different Norse countries to get the job done. Their attitude of death in battle. Their attitude of preparing for advancement from the enemy, as well as the most likely way to band together to defeat them for the sake of the people living there.
For all it’s faults this movie instantly captured my imagination as a kid i have the sharpest memory of thinking “ there’s something important here “ and it sparked my desire to learn more and started my journey towards learning more about actual old Norse culture and history- and thus here I am today watching your channel with much admiration and gratitude for all your shared knowledge and insight. Thanks for all you do!
I very much appreciate and enjoy your videos . As one converted to Norse Paganism I always learn so much
I enjoy your rambling videos, your learning gives great insight with preaching.
Professor Crawford, I am almost done with your Norse Mythology course on Wondrium. I just started the next-to-last episode, on Hel, Valhol, and the afterlife. It's excellent! Well done, sir! You do an excellent job of trying to explain what we can understand and what we can't, especially about things like the Drengr code. Thank you so much for your hard work. // I too like the 13th Warrior, but I'm just a literary studies and film analysis guy, so I like it for different reasons.
I have a great story bout 13th Warrior/Eaters of the Dead. My friend who was getting a history degree found it on my shelf and borrowed it. He later used it to write a college paper on it comparing it to Beowulf and how it was more accurate of an account, and got a high grade on it. After he told me I opened the book and read the page with the publishing information and laughed when I found out it was fictional. He got a laugh out of it too. Neither of us knew, and we just shook our heads.
The biggest and most annoying flaw about the book in my opinion was writing it as though it was a a historical source. It just seems completely unnecessary and I think confuses people who read it.
It's kinda funny. I honestly never payed much attention to what the vikings in The 13th Warrior were saying in the untranslated sections.
What stuck with me instead were the scenes in which they talked Latin.
When I first watched this movie I was still in school and learned Latin. Through all those years I could never imagine anyone actually talking like that, because 99% of what got to hear was my classmates and me having to awkwardly read passages from text-books.
But when they started talking to each other in Latin in this movie, it suddenly felt a little more alive.
Can't wait for your commentary on Wagner's Ring 😉
I freaking LOVE this movie. The atmosphere is fantastic. The soundtrack is fantastic. The story is fantastic. I was really surprised when I found out how lowly this movie was rated at the time. Highly underrated, literally!
If you want to do more Norse Expert's Thoughts videos, might I suggest not limiting yourself to films set during the "Viking-era." For example the horror film "The Ritual" takes place in modern day Norway/Sweden, but prominently features runes and a monster derived from old Norse folklore. "Troll Hunter" might also be interesting...
Mortal combat annihilation; we already knew how bad movies could be! 😂😂😂 Bravo, sir!
Very well done, well thought out video on the 13th warrior, you have true insight on the subject Jackson.
From MY research, the issues that Omar Sharif had with the movie stemmed from the interactions and pettiness of both the writer and the Director. This comes from a video Interview I saw with the actor Vladimir Kulich. He said that there were numerous reshoots and "Don't tell HIM I did this or that..." back and forth between them. On top of that there were parts of the storyline that COULD have been developed but were not, probably due to budget overages. As Mr. Kulich stated, the movie COULD have launched Dennis Storhoi's career, but release problems were prevalent as well. The Director stated that he wanted to release a "Director's Cut" but since he has since passed, it seems like that that won't happen even though there is a strong 'cult following' now. Too bad.
I wish someone would release both a good extended cut of the movie, and an English BlueRay version.
The 13th warrior is the only Northman movie that I like---forget about that 'fetishist' Netflix stuff.
Michael Crichton wrote, after the movie came out, that he had written the paper for a pompous English comp professor using ibn Fadlan's account as a stepping off point and putting so many faux references into the paper that he should have been called on the carpet. He said he showed the moron didn't even see anything resembling Beowulf in the paper and breathlessly accepted it and he earned an A. He was in college at the time and he said it gave him a jaundiced eye of medical research reports and admitted he had poisoned his own well as it were. He didn't realease Eaters of the Dead until an college pal reminded him of it.
That's very different from what Crichton says about the novel's creation, in the foreword or afterword.
@@peterknutsen3070 depending on the edition you get.
Good info.....I'll check it out, thanks!
When I saw this video release I decided to watch the movie before the video. I know it's rare that you review movies or the like, so that just made me even more curious. It was very good, something about the atmosphere and portrayal of events just made it feel much more genuine than many norse-inspired things I've seen.
Didn't enjoy the movie but loved the novel, (read it 25 years ago.) Always wondered about it's veracity so glad I found this vid. Subscribed!