Thanks for the shout-out! You had the pronunciation right on the first go, it sounds like “net-maji”. We gotta get to the bottom of this fuel thing. I hope this isn’t part of why honda spec’d 600 mi oil changes in the first place.
the 450r and x bikes also have a know fuel-in-oil issue. Something about either the injector not closing all the way or too much pressure. Some guys claim to have a fix (other than uber-frequent oil changes). Since the "L" shares the same engine, whatever the cause and solution is is probably the same here.
I've read that too. I've also read that trying different injectors can fix it, as well as revving the bike before shutting it off. LOL. The internet is soooo helpful sometimes. Injectors or $75 each so I don't want to order a bunch to see which ones leak and which ones don't... Thanks for looking into it too.
Thanks for sharing. I have an older KLR 650, so my feed back would be irrelevant to your investigation. However, I'm enjoying your channel and am looking forward to the comments and findings of the other subscribers. Regards from S Africa Clive
No gas smell. 1100 miles. Booster Plug and modded OEM baffle. 3 oil changes this year, it gets spoiled 🤷🏻♂️. I’ll send a sample in next month when I do the next change. Honda GN4 10w30 the first two changes HP4 the last, which is what the test will be on. If there is gas in the test I’ll pull the Booster Plug off till the next oil change and test results.
Ran right out to check my oil. No gas smell, but I have only 50 miles on a fresh change at 585 miles. JD Tuner set to richen the idle to 1/8 throttle only. I'll check again at 1200 miles.
Obviously not the same bikes but my 2012, 2013 and 2015 wr250r's oil always had a STRONG gas smell as soon as you opened up the oil fill/dipstick. I had a fuel controller on them all, those bikes are industructable and i beat them bad, 3000mile oil intervals(always changed at 2000 or less though. My 2015 ktm 500 xcw which is the offroad version that i made street legal which had a stock motor and pipe (no emissions came on it from the factory) also always smelled of fuel when changing the oil. Never had an oil analysis on any of them but no doubt the oil had fuel in it.
Wow. I had no idea. I do remember the first two oil changes I did on this bike. Made a point to smell the oil. Smelled like oil. These past two however I smelled gasoline as soon as I started to drain. Well, whether it's an engine killer or not, I'm still going to beat the bike. LOL. I'll just be a little more empathetic about it.
@@JohnTYoung its weird because none of my 3 or 4 cylinder bikes have ever really had the fuel smell in the oil and i have a sponsor that flash tunes everyone of them for me, maybe it has something to do with the single cylinders, who knows? Either way definitely appreciate you testing and pushing out the oil changes on this bike to see how it goes, I'm feeling like it maybe my next bike for sure.
Hey John, love the videos. I have a 2021 crf450rl with 1800 miles on it now. I didn't notice the smell of gas on the first oil change at 250 miles but have changed the oil 3 times since and it smells like fuel. No oil analysis done yet but the smell is immediately noticable right off of the dipstick. My bike is completely stock, no vortex ecu, no pipe. Not much info out there addressing this issue on this particular model but I figured I'd share my experience with the 450rl with you. Keep us posted if you hear any new info. Thanks!
I will second the part of that skid plate is hard to get on, I watched the video on how to put it on, it went to smooth in the install video, It went so long in the texas heat, I put the original back on and put it back in the plastic bag it came in and I will mess with it later when it is cool. hahha. Thanks for sharing this information with us and I hope you have a blessed week sir. Dale
CRF450L with about 5,000 miles; stock except for Vortex ECU set to base map with standard low, medium, and hight throttle position fuel mixture - no gasoline oder on dip stick. Bike runs great but take about three start attempts when cold (60F ambient temp.); start right up when warmed up.
Are you aware of the choke on our bikes? I always choke mine upon cold starting. It's a little yellow ring that needs to be pulled out. Then start the bike, it will cause the engine to idle at high rpm until warm. I let mine run like that for 20 seconds or so then push it back it and it idles fine afterwards.
Hey John. I just bought a 2019 CRF450L! I love the bike, it's completely stock right now with 300 kilometres on it, I can smell gas in the oil. I thought this was a common problem of engines running rich, but the bike definitely runs lean in it's current configuration. I've got a Vortex ecu, and Yoshimura rs4 ordered, and I cannot wait for these to arrive and install them! Keep up the videos I really enjoy the content!
Hi Levi. Thanks for watching and joining the conversation. It seems it does not matter whether your bike is stock or modded, if you have gas in your oil, you just do. Mine does and at 8500 miles the oil is still mostly free of wear metals. Go Honda!
Just changed my 450l's oil a few hours ago at the 1200 mile interval. The oil smelled very much like gasoline. Ran 10w-40 castrol for the last 600 miles. Today I filled it with motul 300v. I'm running stock tune and exhaust. So, I don't think it's your power commander or tune messing with yours.
Thank you for making this John! I am going through the same process with my 2020 Yamaha WR250F that has less than 100 hours on it. The manual also calls for 600 mile intervals but I do it every ~300 (20hrs). I sent 2 samples to Black Stone, one at 23hrs and the other at 17. Both came back with 5.3% and 2.8% fuel respectively. Copper was at 82 and 78ppm which is high! I am worried but relieved to hear others in the comments similar experiences. You're at like 20,000+ miles and no issues, so I assume this is normal with dirt bikes.
@@JohnTYoung Spoke to a petroleum specialist who also deals with motorcycles. I may have gotten an answer to this fuel dilution thing! Long story short, it's normal. Dirtbikes do not have precise fuel trimming like a modern automobile. So the injector is either on/off and it may dribble a little. Single cylinder motors are also not the easiest to keep running so extra fuel is needed to compensate. A car engine is just more precise and less stressed which is why they last 200,000 + miles. Blackstone is used to dealing with these well tuned, tight tolerance multi-cylinder motors. So from their end, fuel dilution is somewhat of abnormal. On a motorcycle however, it's somewhat normal. As long as you're using good oil and doing maintenance, everything will be fine. At 22,000 miles, you have proven this!
I almost bought the Baja Designs so i can't wait to see the video. I run the Mosko 40. No trouble with is melting or others things! for a couple of videos ago!
I have the italian version of the CRF450L, completely stock with Termignoni exhaust. My oil also smells fuel, after my second oil change, I rode a couple of minutes and it smelled fuel. The bike goes great.
@@JohnTYoung I just called Red Moto the official Honda dealership in Italy. They sell the Honda CRF450L with some small mods like Termignoni exhaust, bigger air intake, a dedicated ECU map and different graphics: it’s called CRF450XR and the stock model has 43 HP. I bought the bike new and now it has 1100 km (680 miles). I explained the problem and a man, that answered my telephone call, said don’t worry. I asked him if it’s normal and if my bike is the only one with this problem and he answered that they ignore the problem: he said the only way to get fuel in the oil is across the piston rings, it’s called blow-by. According to what he said I don’t have to worry because even the CRF450RX (that is the competition model) is absolutely reliable and it has a bigger compression ratio and two piston rings instead of three like the XR (450L). They sold about one hundred of CRF450XR and never got issues. I asked if a too full tank may cause the problem and he answered when the blow-by happen, is caused by a problem in the piston rings. He said the blow-by is rare but a little bit is common in many bikes. I don’t know….I’m changing the oil every 500 km (310 miles) with Bardahl XTC C60 10W40 OFF ROAD + Hiflo HF116 filter. That’s all.
I'm reading about blow-by and I don't think it's the answer for the fuel in the oil....first signal of blow-by is oil in the air filter. I've never found oil in my air filter...
@@massimilianogallistru I have never had fuel in my air filter either. I do know that there are lots of riders reporting fuel in their oil, and so far no one has reported problems from it. SO far....
I have a stock Crf300l rally, and the oil reeks of fuel. To the point where even a friend in my garage showed concern. Just sold my 450l, and the new owner was going to be riding it almost 700 miles. So I changed the oil for him. Same deal, oil reeked of fuel. I usually have around 10 bikes, so it’s hard to remember certain details on each bike. But I’m almost certain the 450l always had a fuel smell while draining its oil. I’ve been pondering this all day. I ride in all temps, and it could possibly be from me leaving the bikes run for 2-3 mins in 30 degree temps when first starting them up? Also do a lot of wide open throttle
@@JohnTYoung I would love to know the root cause, but Honda has to know of this and would address if there concerns. 17k miles is hard to argue with. That’s a lot of riding on one of these! Love to see people pile the miles on em
I will check mine when I get home next week. I have the vortex/yosh configuration with 1700 miles. On a side note, did you notice a large dip in fuel mileage after adding the vortex? I still need to do a few tanks on each map to verify. I am seeing a 15% decrease, but the jury is still deliberating on my throttle wrist factor.
@@JohnTYoung Yeah I know it will increase fuel usage but I think 15% seems a little excessive, especially considering the limited fuel capacity even with the IMS. Just wondering if you had done any in depth analysis of the change in fuel usage.
@@tonywillett6543 Sorry, I have not... yet. I've only put 100 or so miles on the bike with the Vortex installed so I haven't had the time to run it around in highway, hauler, mx, or dual purpose mode yet. But you're right, the drop in MPG is very noticeable and immediate.
@@JohnTYoung I too have only a few hundred miles since installing the vortex. My original post might have suggested I have 1700 miles on the vortex. So I am still in the process of analyzing the mileage drop.
@@tonywillett6543 Ah, gotcha. I was definitely going to start asking you for advice. LOL. WE'll figure all this out at the same time then... when it stops snowing - otherwise my bike is grounded for a bit.
2019 CRF 450 L with a Tacomoto SX1 currently has 8,300 miles on it. I recently made an oil analysis after 900 miles, and it showed 3.4% fuel in the oil.
Fuel mixed with oil can be many many thing droping the bike can mix it due to fuel not burnt, bad combustion, bad fuel timing, used cylinder, used piston, bad piston ring seal, spark plug efficacity, malfunctioning injector, electric problems, just the simple fact of stalling.... i know a lot about car mechanics and electronic and i would assume there is not that big of a gap between car and bike so yeah hope this helps you
Maybe this question is currently unanswerable: which do you think would produce more gas in the oil - the Honda (US) ECU, or the Vortex? If I am to believe what I read, the Honda ECU does not produce ignition sparks during overrun/deceleration, whereas the Vortex does. On the other hand the Vortex produces richer mixtures than the Honda. So which has the greater effect - strong mixture plus firing off throttle, or weak mixture plus no spark off throttle?
Ian Surgeon I’ve heard from people who have the stock ECU and from people with a power commander or vortex and so far it doesn’t seem to matter which system anyone is using. I have done three oil analysis and so far all three have come back with significant amounts of gasoline in the oil. Yes to check for a leaky fuel injector
Hi John 100% I have gasoline or petrol as we say in Australia in my CRF450L I just completed a 2200km ride in outback Australia so I didn’t do any oil changes! The oil is clean but the viscosity is very very thin when checked first thing on a cold engine! I will drain oil today and measure the amount to see if there is more volume of oil than what I put in it on last oil change!
Thanks for adding your input. Seems like there are more petrol in oil than not. I’d be worried but so far the oil analysis still says the motor is fine.
One year after the release I can comment on this topic. I own the 450L 19 since three months with around 2500 km on it. It smells like gas. Stock European model with no Air Box lid on it. Oil change every 1000km (600miles) Smooth break in from myself. Regulary drop of the bike happens... Any updates why this is? All the best Paul
Any update on gas in oil ? I Just bought a 2019 crf 450l a couple of weeks ago and after watching your video i check/smelled my oil and it smells like gas , Is that something to worry about?
Hey Roman9432, I'm waiting for the next test samples to come back. As long as you change your oil in that 600 mile, 1000km range you'll be fine. It's when you push it beyond that, that I want to know about.Thanks for watching!
Three years later, so you may not see this. Porsche high performance models had one less oil controlling on the piston. Manual warned you that the engine used 1 qt of oil per 1000 miles. The old air cooled engines even had an oil tank, like a fuel tank. Just a thought.
The Honda doesn't "use" or burn any oil. An extra oil tank would be nice tho. There's a cooler out there that costs $500 and adds a little volume. I just swap it out every 1000 to 1200 miles and keep rolling.
I have a KTM 690 enduro. When I change the oil, I can smell a little fuel. The bike also uses about 3-4 ounces of oil between oil changes. I usually change the oil at about 750 to 1000 miles. I am wondering if the fuel in the oil is the result of the high compression ratio ? And if so, that may be why the frequent oil changes are recommended. As for the oil, I have heard the most 690’s burn a little oil, so I am not too worried about that. My bike is stock except for a Wings slip-on muffler. I also have a Honda Africa Twin that burns zero oil between changes and the oil hardly even changes color at 2000 miles. I vote for the CRF 450 chassis with a rally faring and a CB 500x motor...
MonoLake02 That could be. I am sure Honda takes into consideration the file issue and shortens the change intervals and maybe thickens the oil. I know the analysis always comes back OK on metals in the oil. I say the CBC motor, but I love the 450 unicam motor. I just want 3000 or 6000 mile oil changes. Lol. Too much to ask?
Husky 701, never smells like gas, burns no oil at least in the later dual balance shaft motor, not sure what year yours is but sure you have been on the forums and have a better understanding. Change closer to 3500 after several closer ones near break in but motard so not much dirt riding, other machines for that. Man at those change intervals I'd buy the 450L for sure! Might forever be torn between 690 enduro and 450L. Watching for sweet pandemic deals though on 450L's, best so far is 19 CRF450L ... $8499. Has been my only non red bike since my Yzinger 50 (aka PW50 for the younger guys) and love to get back to fully red garage. Never smell gas on my CRF250RX and never did on my CRF450x but much more often oil changes. My CR250R though, that always smells like gassy oil, just like it should! Lot of interesting thoughts on why here.
The 450l facebook group is full of people saying their oil smells like gas. One guy has a honda dealership working to figure it out, thinks it might be something with the injector, if you join the "Honda CRF450L Owners Club" facebook group and you'll see the posts. LOTS of 450l's with this problem and a lot guys have the attitude of don't worry about it and ride your bike, but gas mixing with the lubrication system is not a good thing. Hopefully Honda can get to the bottom of it.
By the by I looked over a brand new demo 450L last week with only 4 kms on it here in NZ. After recently watching this video and being somewhat curious I removed the dipstick and sure enough it reeked of fuel. I've contemplated getting one of these but have to admit am unsure now with this issue in mind. May have to look at a WR 450F instead...
@@JohnTYoung Did you ever get that second analysis back John? I have an opportunity to buy a 2019 model, new, that's been significantly discounted. Wonder if I should just chance the oil dilution issue, if it arises and manage it accordingly.
Any developments on this problem ? Read a post that thought is was back pressure after turning bike off and letting it sit. Letting idle with petcock off would solve ?.......still leaning towards this as my next bike. Thx for content
Hi John. It's great what you let us watch. I'm Greek but I'm writing from Italy. Have you consider to put a some kind of switch right after the gas tank and keep always off when you don't use your CRF? I'm a doctor not a maccanic so maybe I tell some kind of stupid think anyway.... Thank you for your great work 😊
@@JohnTYoung I was reading about it in the Italian forums ( Italians know about motors😅) Till now the most credible issue is that in cold weather the injection system push more gas in the combustion chamber and some of this goes into the oil....but does not explain the amount of the oil that you find....5% Is more than 50ml it's too large...
I can smell fuel on my Honda CRF 450 rx 2017 oil too. whats the solution here? what happens if i just ignore this and just change the oil on a regular basis.
Hey, I've noticed this problem also. My bikes a 2013 crf 450 r. I bought it used this summer My bike was fine until a month ago. Now my engine oil does stink after a few rides. Even noticed the oil level goin up alot. Might be related to crank seal issue. Tried to diagnose the issue but it seems to be different each time. Gonna end my season here and tear my engine apart. At this point I'm looking at other jumping ship. Hondas always been good to me but I think it's time to something else. Bike has lots of compression, I just installed a fmf slip on exhaust which made things worst. I removed the screen cage inside the airbox. I mostly ride motocross with some trail riding. Change my oil roughly 2-3 hrs run time. Why isn't there a fuel shutoff on the fuelies?
When the pump doesn't run the fuel can't flow... so no shutoff. Since the pump is in the tank, it would also introduce another place to leak. Again, 16,000 miles, oil changes every 1000 miles or so, and the bike runs great. But that's me.
i have a bone stock (power wise) 22 RL with 50xx miles and i have a lot of gas in the oi, so much that i usually change my oil every 2-400 miles. I may have gone to 600 maybe once or twice.
Generally, the oil temp is within 10 degrees of the coolant/water temperature. If your bike has a radiator fan, an oil cooler isn't needed. Adding extra gizmos may also increase the chances of failure when you're out in the middle of nowhere. A small hole in an oil cooler will ruin your day and possibly your engine too.
I have a video of my three-year-old daughter changing the oil on her dirt bike come check it out.... Any oil I've changed out of a gas engine has had at least a faint amount of gasoline smell in the oil. And a backfire happens when ignition fires back through the carburetor, the popping you are talking about is actually called after fire. That is why there's a backfire screen in your air box or else an actually backfire may catch your bike on fire.
First oil change on mine 150 miles, it smells like gas, dropped a sample off at CAT for an analysis, refilled with Amsoil 10-40 and K&N filter, bone stock as of now, 2022 CRF450RL
I had a yamaha wr250r and my oil smelled like fuel as well. Had a power commander and fmf exhaust with the bomb header. Bike was solid and never left me stranded with me riding it hard but not ragged out. Gas in the oil had me curious though
@@JohnTYoung I was looking to get a crf450rl or 300l and was doing some reviews on them and came across your video and the other guy you mentioned. Thankful guys like you do reviews in real world stuff. Appreciate you
I just bought a stock 2020 CRF 450L with only 380kms on it. The owner from the enduro school I take lessons all the time sold his to me. Brand new. He would not sell me a bike that has issues, just saying. And Honda dealers here in Belgium don't have the 450L for sale. Not sure why. Anyway, I have a very distinct gas smell in the oil as well. Still the first oil, not even 1000 kms yet like I said. I'll talk to Bart from the school about it. Curious what he has to say about this. You make cool and very informative videos by the way! Thanks for that. Enjoying them a lot.
Thanks Jurgen. This issue may not be one of bad bike versus good bike. If you change the oil when you should it does not seem to affect the wear indicator metals in the oil. In other words, even though my analysis all come back with fuel in the oil they are always well within limits for particles and whatnot.
@@JohnTYoung Well, I took a sample with me and they assured me the gas smell was not a gas smell. I must admit it smelled a lot more like gas when I used the dip stick straight out of the engine. But in a plastic cup it did not. Yes I sealed it right after taking the sample. The oil was diluted as well, I thought. But that's just the oil for the first 1000 kms. It's thinner. You have to understand that I come from riding big bore bikes (GS's) and never did an oil change myself (on my bikes). There you go, just posting my update... grts!
Has anyone talked to Honda about this? Are they reachable? I bought this bike last month and then I find out I have to buy an ecu to keep it from stalling/flaming-out (which it absolutely does) and now the oil viscosity is compromised because of this issue? Suppose that’s what I get for buying year 1 of a bike. Good work John for trying to get some good data on the issue-I’ll update with my results once I’ve done first oil change. Would be very curious to see if Honda has official response to these issues.
Many have "talked" to Honda via their dealer. Not sure who to talk to at the Honda HQ. I'm not worried about the longevity of the motor as long as you are changing your oil every 600 miles, it's when you're trying to push those oil changes that things start to worry me. Thanks for the comments Michael.
Your break-ins should be at the recommended intervals other than maybe the very very first one. You can do that short to get all the machining metals out. The first one, with all the tolerances kinda tight, can be a little off. After that it seems to be about 50-50 on whether your bike's oil will smell bad or not. Mine does and has 17,000 miles on it with no problems.
@@MtnPeakEnduro I've done both before taking a sample, and all have come back with "increased levels". I too, think it may be an injector issue but I just haven't gotten around to checking it out yet. Lazy lazy lazy. Next valve check I promise to do it.
@@JohnTYoung ya I was surprised lol. Yoshi exhaust, no air box lid Vortex ECU on map 5(max hp setting) 1200 miles on the bike 600 on the oil mods have been done since 200 miles
I’m all stock and just got the bike. Has 173 miles on it and checked the dip stick and noticed it smelled like oil and was a bit drippy off the dip stick
I don't know what the compression ratio for the 450L is, but my guess for the gasoline is blow by. Maybe the rings aren't the best or maybe it is designed that way and that is why it has to be serviced every 600 miles. I'm just guessing.
compression ratio is 12:1. All engines experience blow by. It may be normal, but the analyst, who does this for a living, didn't think so. On the other hand I did let the oil change go for longer than recommended. On the third hand....
Only way gas can get into the oil is past the piston rings. Break in: Within the first FEW miles, find a nice hill where you can run higher gears. At MEDIUM RPM, hold FULL throttle for as many seconds as you can. Go back down and do it again, several times. Feel free to briefly close the throttle to suck some oil up past the rings, then back to full throttle. This should seat the rings. Too late, you say? I gave it a gentle break in, like the factory guys say? No problem; the next time you take the top end off, lightly frost the rings with 600 grit emery paper, being very careful to clean off all the grit, and put it back together. Then go out and do what we just said above to seat the rings. The gentle break in is promoted by the lawyers, who do not want you to hurt yourself. You do not need high RPM, but you do need high cylinder pressures to seat the rings, and it has to be done before they glaze. Good luck! Enjoy!
I think that the gas in the oil is normal within reason, there is just no way to keep fuel and oil completely separate inside the engine. I could be small amounts of gas and oil mixing from the oil on the cylinder wall. Oil manufacturers probably account for this and is why oil has additives among other reasons. Test the oil from your cars or trucks, it will probably surprise you how much fuel gets in there.
MOTO MAC That’s a great idea. I don’t know that I would have been as worried about it if the analyst who analyzed my oil had been so worried about it. They made a point to explain how extra high it was. I’m assuming they see engine oil all the time.
I have 300 miles on my brand new bone stock 2024 RL. Started rewatching JTY vids to prepare for my very first service. Seen this vid and- Well according to the police report: I apparently leaped up from my rocking chair cursing Honda ruthlessly as my new iPad flew across the front porch and I ran to the driveway to smell my own dipstick in public and broad daylight. Upon pulling out my dipstick I wiped it on a paper towel and then sniffed the scent of the paper towel and proceeded to fly into a fit of rage. I then produced a zippo lighter from my pocket and briefly touched the zippo to the paper towel at which point the paper towel spontaneously combusted and burst into fucking flames. I then frantically pulled out my wallet and began burning the remaining cash left in it in an effort to prevent myself from ruining my own life any further with it. At that point a well meaning neighbor was heard to yell. “Told ya you shoulda got the Husky sucker”. Neighbor was touch and go in ICU when I woke-up in my cell but has since stabilized and is expected to pull thru so I was released by a sympathetic judge who once owned a Husky and agreed that my neighbor was clearly suicidal. So yes after 300 mixed use miles my oil already has way more than 5% gasoline in it. What size is the stock drain bolt beneath the skid plate gonna be please- I better drain my gas immediately 🤦♀️. And hope you are well JTY- Best Wishes and thank you much for everything you have done for us with these helpful vids.
Right I have just carried out another oil change. Oil change was done at 671 miles. I put in 1250ml 1295ml came out I presume there was 45ml of fuel in it. Stinks of fuel.
This last oil change I sent the old oil out for analysis and also measured (1200ml) that I put in. We'll see when everything comes back. I'm wondering if we need new piston rings from the get go. :/ Thanks for sharing.
sucky part about fuel in oil id it really dirtys the valve stems and cuts air flow after time,id like to see what the guys valve stems look like ,since he is putting in the sdp I think it is stage 2 kit in his 450L
I am no scientist but am on the internet so I am qualified to be an expert. So wouldn't starting your bike when it's cold allow blow bye until everything is up to temperature expanding and sealing properly?
@@JohnTYoung yes, unless you are riding, shut it off to get gas etc. My point is if you check compression on an ice cold motor vs one that is up to temp, there is a small difference. 2 stroke motors are much more exaggerated. (And yes I know the difference between 2 and 4 strokes) I am been wrenching on my bikes for 30 years. This was just a guess. And to the car comparison, you have a few factors, 1) a car motor is not high compression, 2) they carry way more oil so the % of gas will be different. It's just a guess though. Also the argument of adding fuel when throttle is closed would make more sense if is was port injection, this goes through a throttle body. Again just a guess. Great video series btw 👍 I love it
@@OGPokey151 I guess what I meant was, why THIS bike or THESE bikes. My CRF250X's oil never smelled of gas. Of all the bike's I ever owned, only this one seems to have this issue.
@@markcoleman2960 Big guy? I am trying to loose weight, but I'm an easy keeper so its hard... I have heard of it and would love to do it. I may, if I can get some time off, at least start it next year. If I could do it as a 500 mile a day ride I could maybe finish it in a two week vaca.
@@JohnTYoung well I'm and avid dirtbiker and have experience in enduro and hair scramble/gncc but dont currently have anything street legal and I dont plan on tagging my CRF450X anytime soon. I am seriously looking at a CRF450L or getting a 650L and customizing it. Or.....waiting to see if Honda does anything with the 650L in 2021 I've been watching alot...possibly too many TAT videos and I'm definitely getting the itch and would absolutely love to do some serious long distance. But top many guys dont take these things as serious as we do appearently.
Id like to see what amount of fuel is in oil , now that the thermo delete kit is on, compared to with Thermo on L. I no back in the day we were the oil dist for almost all oils, cam 2 was the only oil that would burn fuel out of it on the race cars,,,maybe the new additives, or methanol in the gas is bonding with the oil?id say id try to do a shear test on the oil and see what happens with the oil taken out with fuel in it. if anyone understand me.
According to the analysis that I've had done it's around 5%. A LOT of fuel. As for the how and why I am still trying to figure that out. It would be interesting to have the oil tested for shear etc... But that is beyond the oil analysis capabilities. Having said that, they do not show any increased wear or metal particulates in the oil, meaning it is still doing its job.
@@veiledallegory That would be an interesting collaboration, but I would get way more out of it than he would. Most labs only charge $40 so it's not that expensive.
Hey bud- I used a gallon of Honda 10-30 for first few changes like the manual specs I think- But I see many including you using 10-40 for whatever reason. Need to get a fresh gallon for the murderous red bitch so would it be ok to bump up to Honda 10-40 during summer in NH even with all that 91 octane i definitely always get in the oil and considering I don’t need expensive long lasting oil because I am consistently changing every 400 miles or so. If she blows up I promise I won’t blame you and much thx as always for all these very helpful vids.
Oh man. That sounds like a great question for a Honda Engineer making $200K a year backed by a Honda Lawyer making $1M a year... LOL. I think as long as it's synesthetic everything will be ok.
@@JohnTYoung 🤣Yeah I pretty much get it now I just needed to do my research and finally learn motor oil basics. Hope all is going well John“No ComfyVacations and UmbrellaDrinks“Young. Take it easy brother and thx again for all the great vids.
The Honda manual recommends 10w-30 but says we can use 10w-40. If gas is in the oil and this is a Honda 450L issue, maybe we should be using 10w-40. What's your thought?
I'm already using 10 - 40 so I think it's a great idea! And I don't believe the issue is unique to the CRF450L. I think it is and has been a CRF issue for a while now.
I'm with the other guy that said this is the reason the bike has those service intervals. The oil never wears out in these bikes, it just gets to much gasoline/petrol in it. That's why alot of people say to not waste money on full synthetics and just run a semi, as the fuel contamination will cause you to lose protection quicker than semi versus full synthetic. P.S I ran the v300 and found no wear advantage compared to 5100 etc. Although I did see a big improvement running mobil 1 15w50 in my crf's.
@@JohnTYoung Yeah the wear, I seemed to get about 60-70hrs on a n oem piston in the v300, 5100 etc in the crf250x,, but with the mobil 1 it jumped to 140-200. This was over about 1400 engine hours. That's not an JasoMA oil though and could affect clutch slippage. Perhaps the increased viscosity helps offset the dilution issue.
if you think mobil 1 is good, it lasted 1/3 of the life in my 08x compared to Lucas syn , and that or Kendall semi syn 15/40 xdlll is all I will use, ive learned a lot with 2 different compartment on the 08x.with both oils I get an easy 20 hours out of both oils avg 30 mph or 600 miles ,were I would get about the same with amsoil, mobil 1 I had to drop out at 12 h,gtx 4 h,syn tec, I rode 10 min and dumped it,motor was loud,pinged ,no seal on rings or seemed film strength was low ??you would no on the X when or how long oil lasts by the way clutch would acted on trans side, and on motor side ,coffee filter test would show you the life of motor oil on eng side.in 600 hours on 08x that a lot of oil changes, and motor has never been apart, well now im jinxed,lol
i still have my factory catch can on my bike, it’s a supermoto so it tends to get a lot of wide open throttle, meaning i’m going to have to drain that catch can more often. i always notice the blow by its catching smells strongly of gas, havnt tried to catch and burn it though. it’s been like this when it was stock, but seems like the blow by may have slightly increased since i got the vortex and pipe, which is natural with the extra fueling, timing, and revs.
John T. Young i dont fall over often, but the bike is at 12 o clock a lot, not sure how that affects the blow by, i noticed a lot less with amsoil 1040 dirt, i am on my first change of motul 300v 5w40 off-road and see a noticeable amount more in the catch can. the fact that it’s almost all watered down gas is interesting
Yep, I definitely smell gas in the oil during first oil change, at 300mi. Was stock up until a vortex/yoshimura update about 25 miles ago. May just stick with 600 mile changes with conventional oil instead of attempting longer changes (~1000mi) with synthetic in light of this.
@@JohnTYoung It would be interesting to know what percentage of people that did the Blackstone test did not get significant gas in there. I'm beginning to suspect the gas thing is a side effect of the race engine design, hence the 600mi interval. It seems unlikely such a widespread issue would be on accident/unknown given its Honda and not a new engine/injectors. We'll see.
John T. Young thank you for responding, I’m looking hard at getting into the duel sport thing myself after a decade of not riding. You seem to really enjoy the crf450l. It seems pretty solid but at over 10k and then another 2k to make it right, seat, exhaust, ecu, tires, fuel tank , and on and on. and now possibly gas in the oil thing. Would you buy the bike again? Any regrets?
@@jayscott8177 I would absolutely buy the bike again, but now there are left overs and way more deals to be had. I paid full price for my bike when they first came out, but now you can find them for around $9k. And you do NOT have too mod it as much as I have mine. Stock, it's still a great motorcycle. ECU and slip on and this bike is amazing.
That I would say is very possibly the exact explanation. Bullet proof engine still needs the right viscosity oil. So changing frequently cancels out the issue. I’m ok with this. Paid off half of my 10k to the dealer and waiting for delivery. I’ve had a lot of dirt bikes in my life. The best ones were always red. I trust Honda.
Interesting, be great to see if you can work out what's happening . I have a husqvarna 701 at present but have eyed up a 450 do to the lighter weight. Main thing stopping me buying one is the short oil service life, If it could be doubled to 1200 miles with the use of fully synthetic oil I would think this bike may be the way forward. What sort of miles per ltr are you getting? Just wondering if it's anywhere near what a 701 can achieve. Volvo cars use a special oil on some of the diesels models to cope with diesel getting into the oil.
I'm getting about 50 MPG, give or take some throttle. I have been using full synthetic since its 1200 mile oil change and to be honest the metal in the oil has been fine. No unusual wear detected. But the gas in the oil and the lowered viscosity still has me concerned. Still trying to work out why.
@@JohnTYoung so that's 50mpg US gallon rather than UK gallon. So how many miles has your bike done? It's unlikely to be still beding the rings to bore? So fuel is blowing by? If you put fresh oil in and then do a long ride as soon as you stop can you smell fuel in the oil? Or do you think it's entering when stationary?
@@richielee5398 Yes. 50MPG US. Is there a UK gallon? I am not sure whether it's leaking around the rings while riding or dripping out of the fuel injector when sitting. I have the bike all apart and am going to investigate as soon as the holidays are over.
@@JohnTYoung well I've tracked down a low miles crf450 to start my project on, fingers crossed will pick it up over the next few weeks. Have you found out any more about the fuel in the oil problem? I will try and do some testing myself. And yes a UK gallon is 4.6ltrs approximately. Can't wait to get my bike now. Be interesting to see how it compares to my 701. I'm going to build a rally tower assy for it like I've done on my 701. How you getting on with the small screen you mounted up?
@@richielee5398 Gotta love a new project! No more info on the oil. My bike is sitting in the snow now, so not a lot of new miles being put on it. I'm thinking I'll try to do 600 miles worth of starts and shut offs without the actual miles and then send the oil in. See if there's still gas in it. I'm sure there will. My nav tower is the Adventure Spec unit with s cut down Bajaworx screen fabricated to it. So far I really like how it looks and works.
Let’s not make a mountain out of a mole hill, as they say. As an aside, I have never had to warm up a cold engine to change the oil because I always plan my oil changes in the bike or truck after a drive of some sort and there have been times that I’ve let oil drain overnight. BTW, that new skid plate looks slick...
So much for precise fuel injection lol You need to set the rings people don’t get on it for bursts when bike is new I don’t own a new 450l I own a 2003 street legal XR400 love it
Jury is still out on what is causing it. I've got a couple of experiments to run yet. I bought the 450L for the fuel injection, among other things. Love not having to play with the carb every time I go for a long ride.
John T. Young they’re nice bikes I can’t afford one I just bought this stole it 500 original miles with two sets of wheels here’s a video $1500.00 th-cam.com/video/ieOTL5GYOIA/w-d-xo.html
Thanks for the shout-out! You had the pronunciation right on the first go, it sounds like “net-maji”.
We gotta get to the bottom of this fuel thing. I hope this isn’t part of why honda spec’d 600 mi oil changes in the first place.
I wouldn't think it was... but.... you'll notice so far we are the only two with gassy oil.
Haven’t had mine tested. Do you know if it ruins the warranty if I change it myself
@@cliftondugan7738 It does not.
the 450r and x bikes also have a know fuel-in-oil issue. Something about either the injector not closing all the way or too much pressure. Some guys claim to have a fix (other than uber-frequent oil changes). Since the "L" shares the same engine, whatever the cause and solution is is probably the same here.
I've read that too. I've also read that trying different injectors can fix it, as well as revving the bike before shutting it off. LOL. The internet is soooo helpful sometimes. Injectors or $75 each so I don't want to order a bunch to see which ones leak and which ones don't... Thanks for looking into it too.
Thanks for sharing.
I have an older KLR 650, so my feed back would be irrelevant to your investigation.
However, I'm enjoying your channel and am looking forward to the comments and findings of the other subscribers.
Regards from S Africa
Clive
The KLR and DRZ are still the kings. Welcome!
I have an 03 klr650. I love it! Was thinking about trading up for the crf450l but maybe I'll wait to see what the gassy oil verdict is! Hahaha
No gas smell. 1100 miles. Booster Plug and modded OEM baffle. 3 oil changes this year, it gets spoiled 🤷🏻♂️. I’ll send a sample in next month when I do the next change. Honda GN4 10w30 the first two changes HP4 the last, which is what the test will be on. If there is gas in the test I’ll pull the Booster Plug off till the next oil change and test results.
That would be awesome. Thank you for sharing. I would be very interested in your results.
Ran right out to check my oil. No gas smell, but I have only 50 miles on a fresh change at 585 miles. JD Tuner set to richen the idle to 1/8 throttle only. I'll check again at 1200 miles.
Thank you!
Obviously not the same bikes but my 2012, 2013 and 2015 wr250r's oil always had a STRONG gas smell as soon as you opened up the oil fill/dipstick. I had a fuel controller on them all, those bikes are industructable and i beat them bad, 3000mile oil intervals(always changed at 2000 or less though. My 2015 ktm 500 xcw which is the offroad version that i made street legal which had a stock motor and pipe (no emissions came on it from the factory) also always smelled of fuel when changing the oil. Never had an oil analysis on any of them but no doubt the oil had fuel in it.
Wow. I had no idea. I do remember the first two oil changes I did on this bike. Made a point to smell the oil. Smelled like oil. These past two however I smelled gasoline as soon as I started to drain. Well, whether it's an engine killer or not, I'm still going to beat the bike. LOL. I'll just be a little more empathetic about it.
@@JohnTYoung its weird because none of my 3 or 4 cylinder bikes have ever really had the fuel smell in the oil and i have a sponsor that flash tunes everyone of them for me, maybe it has something to do with the single cylinders, who knows? Either way definitely appreciate you testing and pushing out the oil changes on this bike to see how it goes, I'm feeling like it maybe my next bike for sure.
@@r6realtor I was thinking, hoping the same. First time I've ever run into this, and the fact I am not the only one has me scratching my head.
Hey John, love the videos. I have a 2021 crf450rl with 1800 miles on it now. I didn't notice the smell of gas on the first oil change at 250 miles but have changed the oil 3 times since and it smells like fuel. No oil analysis done yet but the smell is immediately noticable right off of the dipstick. My bike is completely stock, no vortex ecu, no pipe. Not much info out there addressing this issue on this particular model but I figured I'd share my experience with the 450rl with you. Keep us posted if you hear any new info. Thanks!
Thanks for sharing that Tom. And you're right, there's not much info out there even tho it's a very commo thing.
I will second the part of that skid plate is hard to get on, I watched the video on how to put it on, it went to smooth in the install video, It went so long in the texas heat, I put the original back on and put it back in the plastic bag it came in and I will mess with it later when it is cool. hahha. Thanks for sharing this information with us and I hope you have a blessed week sir.
Dale
Thanks Dale!
CRF450L with about 5,000 miles; stock except for Vortex ECU set to base map with standard low, medium, and hight throttle position fuel mixture - no gasoline oder on dip stick. Bike runs great but take about three start attempts when cold (60F ambient temp.); start right up when warmed up.
Gas smell is running 50/50 no matter what fuel controller is being used. Thanks for participating!
800 miles, and 200 mile since last oil change. Stinks of fuel.
@@daveash7464 We're still about 50/50 on gas smell or not. Thanks for letting us know!
Are you aware of the choke on our bikes? I always choke mine upon cold starting. It's a little yellow ring that needs to be pulled out. Then start the bike, it will cause the engine to idle at high rpm until warm. I let mine run like that for 20 seconds or so then push it back it and it idles fine afterwards.
Hey John. I just bought a 2019 CRF450L! I love the bike, it's completely stock right now with 300 kilometres on it, I can smell gas in the oil. I thought this was a common problem of engines running rich, but the bike definitely runs lean in it's current configuration. I've got a Vortex ecu, and Yoshimura rs4 ordered, and I cannot wait for these to arrive and install them! Keep up the videos I really enjoy the content!
Hi Levi. Thanks for watching and joining the conversation. It seems it does not matter whether your bike is stock or modded, if you have gas in your oil, you just do. Mine does and at 8500 miles the oil is still mostly free of wear metals. Go Honda!
Just changed my 450l's oil a few hours ago at the 1200 mile interval. The oil smelled very much like gasoline. Ran 10w-40 castrol for the last 600 miles. Today I filled it with motul 300v. I'm running stock tune and exhaust. So, I don't think it's your power commander or tune messing with yours.
No, it's remained a non-issue issue no matter what changes I've done to my bike.
Thank you for making this John! I am going through the same process with my 2020 Yamaha WR250F that has less than 100 hours on it. The manual also calls for 600 mile intervals but I do it every ~300 (20hrs). I sent 2 samples to Black Stone, one at 23hrs and the other at 17. Both came back with 5.3% and 2.8% fuel respectively. Copper was at 82 and 78ppm which is high! I am worried but relieved to hear others in the comments similar experiences. You're at like 20,000+ miles and no issues, so I assume this is normal with dirt bikes.
I am at 22,000 miles and so far so good.
@@JohnTYoung Spoke to a petroleum specialist who also deals with motorcycles. I may have gotten an answer to this fuel dilution thing! Long story short, it's normal. Dirtbikes do not have precise fuel trimming like a modern automobile. So the injector is either on/off and it may dribble a little. Single cylinder motors are also not the easiest to keep running so extra fuel is needed to compensate. A car engine is just more precise and less stressed which is why they last 200,000 + miles.
Blackstone is used to dealing with these well tuned, tight tolerance multi-cylinder motors. So from their end, fuel dilution is somewhat of abnormal. On a motorcycle however, it's somewhat normal. As long as you're using good oil and doing maintenance, everything will be fine. At 22,000 miles, you have proven this!
I almost bought the Baja Designs so i can't wait to see the video. I run the Mosko 40. No trouble with is melting or others things! for a couple of videos ago!
I'm trying to add as much night time riding as I can so I'm still working on it. You're going to want one when you see the video though.
2019 CRF450L Completely stock. 1st oil change was at 60 miles. Current mileage is 220, definite presence of gas in the oil.
22,000’miles of gasy oil changes later…
I have the italian version of the CRF450L, completely stock with Termignoni exhaust. My oil also smells fuel, after my second oil change, I rode a couple of minutes and it smelled fuel. The bike goes great.
See what your dealer says about it and let us all know.
@@JohnTYoung I just called Red Moto the official Honda dealership in Italy. They sell the Honda CRF450L with some small mods like Termignoni exhaust, bigger air intake, a dedicated ECU map and different graphics: it’s called CRF450XR and the stock model has 43 HP. I bought the bike new and now it has 1100 km (680 miles). I explained the problem and a man, that answered my telephone call, said don’t worry. I asked him if it’s normal and if my bike is the only one with this problem and he answered that they ignore the problem: he said the only way to get fuel in the oil is across the piston rings, it’s called blow-by. According to what he said I don’t have to worry because even the CRF450RX (that is the competition model) is absolutely reliable and it has a bigger compression ratio and two piston rings instead of three like the XR (450L). They sold about one hundred of CRF450XR and never got issues. I asked if a too full tank may cause the problem and he answered when the blow-by happen, is caused by a problem in the piston rings. He said the blow-by is rare but a little bit is common in many bikes. I don’t know….I’m changing the oil every 500 km (310 miles) with Bardahl XTC C60 10W40 OFF ROAD + Hiflo HF116 filter. That’s all.
I'm reading about blow-by and I don't think it's the answer for the fuel in the oil....first signal of blow-by is oil in the air filter. I've never found oil in my air filter...
@@massimilianogallistru I have never had fuel in my air filter either. I do know that there are lots of riders reporting fuel in their oil, and so far no one has reported problems from it. SO far....
I have a stock Crf300l rally, and the oil reeks of fuel. To the point where even a friend in my garage showed concern.
Just sold my 450l, and the new owner was going to be riding it almost 700 miles. So I changed the oil for him. Same deal, oil reeked of fuel. I usually have around 10 bikes, so it’s hard to remember certain details on each bike. But I’m almost certain the 450l always had a fuel smell while draining its oil.
I’ve been pondering this all day. I ride in all temps, and it could possibly be from me leaving the bikes run for 2-3 mins in 30 degree temps when first starting them up? Also do a lot of wide open throttle
That's a common theme, but after 17,000 miles with smelly oil and no problems... I guess Honda knows what they're doing?
@@JohnTYoung I would love to know the root cause, but Honda has to know of this and would address if there concerns.
17k miles is hard to argue with. That’s a lot of riding on one of these! Love to see people pile the miles on em
I will check mine when I get home next week. I have the vortex/yosh configuration with 1700 miles. On a side note, did you notice a large dip in fuel mileage after adding the vortex? I still need to do a few tanks on each map to verify. I am seeing a 15% decrease, but the jury is still deliberating on my throttle wrist factor.
Yes, the Vortex will lower your MPG but that's the price of not running sooooooo lean. Thanks for checking.
@@JohnTYoung Yeah I know it will increase fuel usage but I think 15% seems a little excessive, especially considering the limited fuel capacity even with the IMS. Just wondering if you had done any in depth analysis of the change in fuel usage.
@@tonywillett6543 Sorry, I have not... yet. I've only put 100 or so miles on the bike with the Vortex installed so I haven't had the time to run it around in highway, hauler, mx, or dual purpose mode yet. But you're right, the drop in MPG is very noticeable and immediate.
@@JohnTYoung I too have only a few hundred miles since installing the vortex. My original post might have suggested I have 1700 miles on the vortex. So I am still in the process of analyzing the mileage drop.
@@tonywillett6543 Ah, gotcha. I was definitely going to start asking you for advice. LOL. WE'll figure all this out at the same time then... when it stops snowing - otherwise my bike is grounded for a bit.
2019 CRF 450 L with a Tacomoto SX1 currently has 8,300 miles on it. I recently made an oil analysis after 900 miles, and it showed 3.4% fuel in the oil.
Thumpers, right.
Fuel mixed with oil can be many many thing droping the bike can mix it due to fuel not burnt, bad combustion, bad fuel timing, used cylinder, used piston, bad piston ring seal, spark plug efficacity, malfunctioning injector, electric problems, just the simple fact of stalling.... i know a lot about car mechanics and electronic and i would assume there is not that big of a gap between car and bike so yeah hope this helps you
The issues should be about the same, I would think too. Now to try to isolate what's going on. Thanks for the info!
Interesting stuff! Love to hear if you figure out anything more on the fuel in oil issue👍
I'll keep you posted. Thanks!
You figure it out?
Maybe this question is currently unanswerable: which do you think would produce more gas in the oil - the Honda (US) ECU, or the Vortex? If I am to believe what I read, the Honda ECU does not produce ignition sparks during overrun/deceleration, whereas the Vortex does. On the other hand the Vortex produces richer mixtures than the Honda. So which has the greater effect - strong mixture plus firing off throttle, or weak mixture plus no spark off throttle?
Ian Surgeon I’ve heard from people who have the stock ECU and from people with a power commander or vortex and so far it doesn’t seem to matter which system anyone is using. I have done three oil analysis and so far all three have come back with significant amounts of gasoline in the oil. Yes to check for a leaky fuel injector
Hi John
100% I have gasoline or petrol as we say in Australia in my CRF450L I just completed a 2200km ride in outback Australia so I didn’t do any oil changes! The oil is clean but the viscosity is very very thin when checked first thing on a cold engine! I will drain oil today and measure the amount to see if there is more volume of oil than what I put in it on last oil change!
Thanks for adding your input. Seems like there are more petrol in oil than not. I’d be worried but so far the oil analysis still says the motor is fine.
John T. Young Does anyone have a answer or a repair for the issue?
@@jamieberlingeri4986 Not that I'm aware of, or I would have done it. So if you find out let me know Jamie.
John, What did you find out about the oil that was sent out after the vortex ecu was installed?
Same as with the Power Commander. Lots of fuel in the oil, but still no wear indicators like excess metals.
@@JohnTYoung John, Thanks for keeping us posted.
100 miles on mine and oil smells like fuel. Only 25 miles on it with vortex.
Glad yours is doing fine after all this time.
Ya. So far so good. Ya
One year after the release I can comment on this topic.
I own the 450L 19 since three months with around 2500 km on it.
It smells like gas.
Stock European model with no Air Box lid on it.
Oil change every 1000km (600miles)
Smooth break in from myself.
Regulary drop of the bike happens...
Any updates why this is?
All the best
Paul
Hi Paul, Still not 100% why this should be though I've heard lots and lots of theories.
Any update on gas in oil ? I Just bought a 2019 crf 450l a couple of weeks ago and after watching your video i check/smelled my oil and it smells like gas , Is that something to worry about?
Hey Roman9432, I'm waiting for the next test samples to come back. As long as you change your oil in that 600 mile, 1000km range you'll be fine. It's when you push it beyond that, that I want to know about.Thanks for watching!
Three years later, so you may not see this. Porsche high performance models had one less oil controlling on the piston. Manual warned you that the engine used 1 qt of oil per 1000 miles. The old air cooled engines even had an oil tank, like a fuel tank. Just a thought.
The Honda doesn't "use" or burn any oil. An extra oil tank would be nice tho. There's a cooler out there that costs $500 and adds a little volume. I just swap it out every 1000 to 1200 miles and keep rolling.
I have a KTM 690 enduro. When I change the oil, I can smell a little fuel. The bike also uses about 3-4 ounces of oil between oil changes. I usually change the oil at about 750 to 1000 miles. I am wondering if the fuel in the oil is the result of the high compression ratio ? And if so, that may be why the frequent oil changes are recommended. As for the oil, I have heard the most 690’s burn a little oil, so I am not too worried about that. My bike is stock except for a Wings slip-on muffler. I also have a Honda Africa Twin that burns zero oil between changes and the oil hardly even changes color at 2000 miles. I vote for the CRF 450 chassis with a rally faring and a CB 500x motor...
MonoLake02 That could be. I am sure Honda takes into consideration the file issue and shortens the change intervals and maybe thickens the oil. I know the analysis always comes back OK on metals in the oil. I say the CBC motor, but I love the 450 unicam motor. I just want 3000 or 6000 mile oil changes. Lol. Too much to ask?
Husky 701, never smells like gas, burns no oil at least in the later dual balance shaft motor, not sure what year yours is but sure you have been on the forums and have a better understanding. Change closer to 3500 after several closer ones near break in but motard so not much dirt riding, other machines for that. Man at those change intervals I'd buy the 450L for sure! Might forever be torn between 690 enduro and 450L. Watching for sweet pandemic deals though on 450L's, best so far is 19 CRF450L ... $8499. Has been my only non red bike since my Yzinger 50 (aka PW50 for the younger guys) and love to get back to fully red garage. Never smell gas on my CRF250RX and never did on my CRF450x but much more often oil changes. My CR250R though, that always smells like gassy oil, just like it should! Lot of interesting thoughts on why here.
The 450l facebook group is full of people saying their oil smells like gas. One guy has a honda dealership working to figure it out, thinks it might be something with the injector, if you join the "Honda CRF450L Owners Club" facebook group and you'll see the posts. LOTS of 450l's with this problem and a lot guys have the attitude of don't worry about it and ride your bike, but gas mixing with the lubrication system is not a good thing. Hopefully Honda can get to the bottom of it.
Thanks for the update InternetAnimal. Already a member and I do watch the posts. Last oil analysis I got said my oil was greater than 5% fuel. Yikes!
Hard break in will help seat the rings and valves.
i'd love to see hear how careful the break in was from people with a gas smell in the oil.
I was semi careful. Avoided redline and lugging mostly. Mostly.
@@JohnTYoung its well known that lugging the engine is the single worst thing you can do during break in... hopefully your engine is ok :)
Checking in from the hard break-in, 100-mile first change, JD Tuner, stock exhaust, no gas smell, club. No idea if that’s why, or not.
@@mitchwinder1204 Thanks!
Yup hard breaking for me
By the by I looked over a brand new demo 450L last week with only 4 kms on it here in NZ. After recently watching this video and being somewhat curious I removed the dipstick and sure enough it reeked of fuel. I've contemplated getting one of these but have to admit am unsure now with this issue in mind. May have to look at a WR 450F instead...
I hear ya... I also have 13000 miles on mine with 0 issues.
@@JohnTYoung Did you ever get that second analysis back John? I have an opportunity to buy a 2019 model, new, that's been significantly discounted. Wonder if I should just chance the oil dilution issue, if it arises and manage it accordingly.
@@spynles7947 I've done 4 or 5 now and they all say the same thing - fuel in the oil but no wear indicator metals.
Any developments on this problem ? Read a post that thought is was back pressure after turning bike off and letting it sit. Letting idle with petcock off would solve ?.......still leaning towards this as my next bike. Thx for content
Hi John. It's great what you let us watch. I'm Greek but I'm writing from Italy.
Have you consider to put a some kind of switch right after the gas tank and keep always off when you don't use your CRF?
I'm a doctor not a maccanic so maybe I tell some kind of stupid think anyway....
Thank you for your great work 😊
Anyway I have just ordered oil and filter and I will change the oil after the first 800km as soon as possible.
I will let you know John
With no power to the fuel pump or injectors, the fuel shouldn't go anywhere. Thanks for watching!
@@JohnTYoung I was reading about it in the Italian forums ( Italians know about motors😅)
Till now the most credible issue is that in cold weather the injection system push more gas in the combustion chamber and some of this goes into the oil....but does not explain the amount of the oil that you find....5% Is more than 50ml it's too large...
@@Spiros.2S Yes it is.
I can smell fuel on my Honda CRF 450 rx 2017 oil too. whats the solution here? what happens if i just ignore this and just change the oil on a regular basis.
None that I know of, though so far it has not caused a problem in my bike.
Hey, I've noticed this problem also. My bikes a 2013 crf 450 r. I bought it used this summer
My bike was fine until a month ago. Now my engine oil does stink after a few rides. Even noticed the oil level goin up alot. Might be related to crank seal issue. Tried to diagnose the issue but it seems to be different each time. Gonna end my season here and tear my engine apart. At this point I'm looking at other jumping ship. Hondas always been good to me but I think it's time to something else. Bike has lots of compression, I just installed a fmf slip on exhaust which made things worst. I removed the screen cage inside the airbox. I mostly ride motocross with some trail riding. Change my oil roughly 2-3 hrs run time.
Why isn't there a fuel shutoff on the fuelies?
When the pump doesn't run the fuel can't flow... so no shutoff. Since the pump is in the tank, it would also introduce another place to leak. Again, 16,000 miles, oil changes every 1000 miles or so, and the bike runs great. But that's me.
Yes mine smells like gas. Only about 300 miles or so on this oil n filter. Bone stock 2019 450L. Only 4k on the odometer
Oil analysis is only $40 or so. Thanks for sharing!
i have a bone stock (power wise) 22 RL with 50xx miles and i have a lot of gas in the oi, so much that i usually change my oil every 2-400 miles. I may have gone to 600 maybe once or twice.
That sounds like a great idea. I still run about 1000 miles between changes with no issues so far.
How do you feel about oil coolers for cooling and increasing capacity? These seem a bit pricey but this isnt a cheap lifestyle.
Ya, $400 is not cheap, and I may give one a try at some point. Right now I have yet to overheat even when it was 110 outside so.....
Generally, the oil temp is within 10 degrees of the coolant/water temperature. If your bike has a radiator fan, an oil cooler isn't needed. Adding extra gizmos may also increase the chances of failure when you're out in the middle of nowhere. A small hole in an oil cooler will ruin your day and possibly your engine too.
I have a video of my three-year-old daughter changing the oil on her dirt bike come check it out.... Any oil I've changed out of a gas engine has had at least a faint amount of gasoline smell in the oil. And a backfire happens when ignition fires back through the carburetor, the popping you are talking about is actually called after fire. That is why there's a backfire screen in your air box or else an actually backfire may catch your bike on fire.
You are very correct on all four accounts.
Only a couple of hundred miles on my 2020 CRF450L, I got it used with full Yoshimura and Vortex, just changes the oil and it stank of gasoline
Mine's been doing that for 13,000 miles now....
First oil change on mine 150 miles, it smells like gas, dropped a sample off at CAT for an analysis, refilled with Amsoil 10-40 and K&N filter, bone stock as of now, 2022 CRF450RL
Amsoil makes some good stuff. Let me know what the analysis says.
I had a yamaha wr250r and my oil smelled like fuel as well. Had a power commander and fmf exhaust with the bomb header. Bike was solid and never left me stranded with me riding it hard but not ragged out. Gas in the oil had me curious though
In any other vehicle I'd be worried, but it seems a common thing in some motos.
@@JohnTYoung I was looking to get a crf450rl or 300l and was doing some reviews on them and came across your video and the other guy you mentioned. Thankful guys like you do reviews in real world stuff. Appreciate you
@@mixedbreed8196 thanks!
I just bought a stock 2020 CRF 450L with only 380kms on it. The owner from the enduro school I take lessons all the time sold his to me. Brand new. He would not sell me a bike that has issues, just saying. And Honda dealers here in Belgium don't have the 450L for sale. Not sure why. Anyway, I have a very distinct gas smell in the oil as well. Still the first oil, not even 1000 kms yet like I said. I'll talk to Bart from the school about it. Curious what he has to say about this. You make cool and very informative videos by the way! Thanks for that. Enjoying them a lot.
Thanks Jurgen. This issue may not be one of bad bike versus good bike. If you change the oil when you should it does not seem to affect the wear indicator metals in the oil. In other words, even though my analysis all come back with fuel in the oil they are always well within limits for particles and whatnot.
@@JohnTYoung that puts my mind at ease. But I'll let you know what they have to say about it over here. Thx!
@@jurgenvandenhouwe3670 Perfect! I would love to know what they say. Thank you.
@@JohnTYoung Well, I took a sample with me and they assured me the gas smell was not a gas smell. I must admit it smelled a lot more like gas when I used the dip stick straight out of the engine. But in a plastic cup it did not. Yes I sealed it right after taking the sample. The oil was diluted as well, I thought. But that's just the oil for the first 1000 kms. It's thinner. You have to understand that I come from riding big bore bikes (GS's) and never did an oil change myself (on my bikes). There you go, just posting my update... grts!
@@jurgenvandenhouwe3670 That's interesting. Thanks for sharing your experience with us.
2024 crf450rl didnt notice the smell until 3rd oil change.
The piston rings are nice and broken in now....
Has anyone talked to Honda about this? Are they reachable? I bought this bike last month and then I find out I have to buy an ecu to keep it from stalling/flaming-out (which it absolutely does) and now the oil viscosity is compromised because of this issue? Suppose that’s what I get for buying year 1 of a bike. Good work John for trying to get some good data on the issue-I’ll update with my results once I’ve done first oil change. Would be very curious to see if Honda has official response to these issues.
Many have "talked" to Honda via their dealer. Not sure who to talk to at the Honda HQ. I'm not worried about the longevity of the motor as long as you are changing your oil every 600 miles, it's when you're trying to push those oil changes that things start to worry me. Thanks for the comments Michael.
I have a 2022 crf450x did the brake in at 35 miles has 224 miles now checked the oil smelled like exhaust is that normal
Your break-ins should be at the recommended intervals other than maybe the very very first one. You can do that short to get all the machining metals out. The first one, with all the tolerances kinda tight, can be a little off. After that it seems to be about 50-50 on whether your bike's oil will smell bad or not. Mine does and has 17,000 miles on it with no problems.
Just checked mine (bone stock 850 miles, ~300 miles on this batch of oil), Definitely has gas in the oil.
3 yes and 3 no. Now I'm really scratching my head. Thanks for checking and letting us know.
@@MtnPeakEnduro For $40 you can have it analyzed.. Mine always has a high percentage of gas in the oil. Still working out why.
@@MtnPeakEnduro I've done both before taking a sample, and all have come back with "increased levels". I too, think it may be an injector issue but I just haven't gotten around to checking it out yet. Lazy lazy lazy. Next valve check I promise to do it.
@@MtnPeakEnduro If I was betting money, this is where I'd place my bet for how gas is reaching the oil.
No gas smell in my oil that I can tell. 1100 miles on the bike 500 on the current oil. Got Yoshi, Vortex & Twin Air since 200 miles.
You should send your oil in for analysis. I'd be super interested in what it said.
@@JohnTYoung got my results back finally. Less than 0.5% gas in my oil
@@motocookie7545 Nice! I'll have the next one back in a few days.
@@JohnTYoung ya I was surprised lol. Yoshi exhaust, no air box lid Vortex ECU on map 5(max hp setting) 1200 miles on the bike 600 on the oil mods have been done since 200 miles
I’m all stock and just got the bike. Has 173 miles on it and checked the dip stick and noticed it smelled like oil and was a bit drippy off the dip stick
It may have 10W 30 in it so it seems thinner. Maybe? The only way to know for sure is to have it analyzed.
I don't know what the compression ratio for the 450L is, but my guess for the gasoline is blow by. Maybe the rings aren't the best or maybe it is designed that way and that is why it has to be serviced every 600 miles. I'm just guessing.
compression ratio is 12:1. All engines experience blow by. It may be normal, but the analyst, who does this for a living, didn't think so. On the other hand I did let the oil change go for longer than recommended. On the third hand....
No smell of gas. 2022 CRF450RL, Athena Get ECU, standard exhaust. 10,000km. Thailand.
Nice!
Only way gas can get into the oil is past the piston rings. Break in: Within the first FEW miles, find a nice hill where you can run higher gears. At MEDIUM RPM, hold FULL throttle for as many seconds as you can. Go back down and do it again, several times. Feel free to briefly close the throttle to suck some oil up past the rings, then back to full throttle. This should seat the rings. Too late, you say? I gave it a gentle break in, like the factory guys say? No problem; the next time you take the top end off, lightly frost the rings with 600 grit emery paper, being very careful to clean off all the grit, and put it back together. Then go out and do what we just said above to seat the rings. The gentle break in is promoted by the lawyers, who do not want you to hurt yourself. You do not need high RPM, but you do need high cylinder pressures to seat the rings, and it has to be done before they glaze. Good luck! Enjoy!
Thanks for the advise Joseph.
@@MtnPeakEnduro, is there any way to clean the injectors? Maybe Chevron Techron?
Bingo
I think that the gas in the oil is normal within reason, there is just no way to keep fuel and oil completely separate inside the engine. I could be small amounts of gas and oil mixing from the oil on the cylinder wall. Oil manufacturers probably account for this and is why oil has additives among other reasons. Test the oil from your cars or trucks, it will probably surprise you how much fuel gets in there.
MOTO MAC That’s a great idea. I don’t know that I would have been as worried about it if the analyst who analyzed my oil had been so worried about it. They made a point to explain how extra high it was. I’m assuming they see engine oil all the time.
I'm one of the 3. 🤙🏽
You ROCK!
I have 300 miles on my brand new bone stock 2024 RL.
Started rewatching JTY vids to prepare for my very first service.
Seen this vid and-
Well according to the police report:
I apparently leaped up from my rocking chair cursing Honda ruthlessly as my new iPad flew across the front porch and I ran to the driveway to smell my own dipstick in public and broad daylight.
Upon pulling out my dipstick I wiped it on a paper towel and then sniffed the scent of the paper towel and proceeded to fly into a fit of rage.
I then produced a zippo lighter from my pocket and briefly touched the zippo to the paper towel at which point the paper towel spontaneously combusted and burst into fucking flames.
I then frantically pulled out my wallet and began burning the remaining cash left in it in an effort to prevent myself from ruining my own life any further with it.
At that point a well meaning neighbor was heard to yell.
“Told ya you shoulda got the Husky sucker”.
Neighbor was touch and go in ICU when I woke-up in my cell but has since stabilized and is expected to pull thru so I was released by a sympathetic judge who once owned a Husky and agreed that my neighbor was clearly suicidal.
So yes after 300 mixed use miles my oil already has way more than 5% gasoline in it.
What size is the stock drain bolt beneath the skid plate gonna be please-
I better drain my gas immediately 🤦♀️.
And hope you are well JTY-
Best Wishes and thank you much for everything you have done for us with these helpful vids.
So so sorry for causing drama. If it helps, I have 22,000 miles of running this oil/gas mix and so far so good.
ive got a full yoshi exhaust, vortex computer and after 100 miles my oil is overfilled and feels like straight gas
Are you still breaking the bike in, or does it have 1000 miles or more on it?
Right I have just carried out another oil change. Oil change was done at 671 miles. I put in 1250ml 1295ml came out I presume there was 45ml of fuel in it. Stinks of fuel.
This last oil change I sent the old oil out for analysis and also measured (1200ml) that I put in. We'll see when everything comes back. I'm wondering if we need new piston rings from the get go. :/ Thanks for sharing.
sucky part about fuel in oil id it really dirtys the valve stems and cuts air flow after time,id like to see what the guys valve stems look like ,since he is putting in the sdp I think it is stage 2 kit in his 450L
I'll stick a camera down there and check them out.
Shout out from a retired Houston firefighter, I wanted to ask you if you ever solved the problem regarding gas in the oil of the CRF 450 L?
No, I haven't. I just change the oil every 600 or 1000 miles. It seems to be pretty prevalent.
I am no scientist but am on the internet so I am qualified to be an expert. So wouldn't starting your bike when it's cold allow blow bye until everything is up to temperature expanding and sealing properly?
Everyone’s bike is cold when they first start it. Cars too.
@@JohnTYoung yes, unless you are riding, shut it off to get gas etc. My point is if you check compression on an ice cold motor vs one that is up to temp, there is a small difference. 2 stroke motors are much more exaggerated. (And yes I know the difference between 2 and 4 strokes) I am been wrenching on my bikes for 30 years. This was just a guess. And to the car comparison, you have a few factors, 1) a car motor is not high compression, 2) they carry way more oil so the % of gas will be different. It's just a guess though. Also the argument of adding fuel when throttle is closed would make more sense if is was port injection, this goes through a throttle body. Again just a guess.
Great video series btw 👍 I love it
@@OGPokey151 I guess what I meant was, why THIS bike or THESE bikes. My CRF250X's oil never smelled of gas. Of all the bike's I ever owned, only this one seems to have this issue.
@@JohnTYoung not sure, it was just a guess. I'll check mine to see if it smells like gas.
@@OGPokey151 If it does, for $40 you can send it off to have it analysed. See if it's just a gas in the fuel issue or if there's any extra wear.
That was an awful lot of huffing and puffing there old guy...
Good video brother
I'm blaming it in the mic...
Young hah....uhuh
So big guy....ever heard of the trans American trail? AKA. ..TAT
@@markcoleman2960 Big guy? I am trying to loose weight, but I'm an easy keeper so its hard... I have heard of it and would love to do it. I may, if I can get some time off, at least start it next year. If I could do it as a 500 mile a day ride I could maybe finish it in a two week vaca.
@@JohnTYoung well I'm and avid dirtbiker and have experience in enduro and hair scramble/gncc but dont currently have anything street legal and I dont plan on tagging my CRF450X anytime soon. I am seriously looking at a CRF450L or getting a 650L and customizing it. Or.....waiting to see if Honda does anything with the 650L in 2021 I've been watching alot...possibly too many TAT videos and I'm definitely getting the itch and would absolutely love to do some serious long distance. But top many guys dont take these things as serious as we do appearently.
Id like to see what amount of fuel is in oil , now that the thermo delete kit is on, compared to with Thermo on L. I no back in the day we were the oil dist for almost all oils, cam 2 was the only oil that would burn fuel out of it on the race cars,,,maybe the new additives, or methanol in the gas is bonding with the oil?id say id try to do a shear test on the oil and see what happens with the oil taken out with fuel in it. if anyone understand me.
According to the analysis that I've had done it's around 5%. A LOT of fuel. As for the how and why I am still trying to figure that out. It would be interesting to have the oil tested for shear etc... But that is beyond the oil analysis capabilities. Having said that, they do not show any increased wear or metal particulates in the oil, meaning it is still doing its job.
John T. Young why not get with the TH-cam page Project Farm and have him test your used oil?
@@veiledallegory That would be an interesting collaboration, but I would get way more out of it than he would. Most labs only charge $40 so it's not that expensive.
Hey bud- I used a gallon of Honda 10-30 for first few changes like the manual specs I think-
But I see many including you using 10-40 for whatever reason.
Need to get a fresh gallon for the murderous red bitch so would it be ok to bump up to Honda 10-40 during summer in NH even with all that 91 octane i definitely always get in the oil and considering I don’t need expensive long lasting oil because I am consistently changing every 400 miles or so.
If she blows up I promise I won’t blame you and much thx as always for all these very helpful vids.
Oh man. That sounds like a great question for a Honda Engineer making $200K a year backed by a Honda Lawyer making $1M a year... LOL. I think as long as it's synesthetic everything will be ok.
@@JohnTYoung 🤣Yeah I pretty much get it now I just needed to do my research and finally learn motor oil basics.
Hope all is going well John“No ComfyVacations and UmbrellaDrinks“Young.
Take it easy brother and thx again for all the great vids.
The Honda manual recommends 10w-30 but says we can use 10w-40. If gas is in the oil and this is a Honda 450L issue, maybe we should be using 10w-40. What's your thought?
I'm already using 10 - 40 so I think it's a great idea! And I don't believe the issue is unique to the CRF450L. I think it is and has been a CRF issue for a while now.
Did you ever have glittery oil?
From metal flakes, yes.
Just went out to the garage. I smell nothing. All stock.
You're the best!
just saw this issue with a bone stock one the other day
Yes. I know NetMaji has said he had it too.
I'm with the other guy that said this is the reason the bike has those service intervals. The oil never wears out in these bikes, it just gets to much gasoline/petrol in it. That's why alot of people say to not waste money on full synthetics and just run a semi, as the fuel contamination will cause you to lose protection quicker than semi versus full synthetic. P.S I ran the v300 and found no wear advantage compared to 5100 etc. Although I did see a big improvement running mobil 1 15w50 in my crf's.
What, other than the cost savings, was the improvement? Wear? MPG?
@@JohnTYoung Yeah the wear, I seemed to get about 60-70hrs on a n oem piston in the v300, 5100 etc in the crf250x,, but with the mobil 1 it jumped to 140-200. This was over about 1400 engine hours. That's not an JasoMA oil though and could affect clutch slippage. Perhaps the increased viscosity helps offset the dilution issue.
@@Superdisco199 Ah. Ya. Engine and clutch share oil now. Not sure I like that, but there it is.
if you think mobil 1 is good, it lasted 1/3 of the life in my 08x compared to Lucas syn , and that or Kendall semi syn 15/40 xdlll is all I will use, ive learned a lot with 2 different compartment on the 08x.with both oils I get an easy 20 hours out of both oils avg 30 mph or 600 miles ,were I would get about the same with amsoil, mobil 1 I had to drop out at 12 h,gtx 4 h,syn tec, I rode 10 min and dumped it,motor was loud,pinged ,no seal on rings or seemed film strength was low ??you would no on the X when or how long oil lasts by the way clutch would acted on trans side, and on motor side ,coffee filter test would show you the life of motor oil on eng side.in 600 hours on 08x that a lot of oil changes, and motor has never been apart, well now im jinxed,lol
i still have my factory catch can on my bike, it’s a supermoto so it tends to get a lot of wide open throttle, meaning i’m going to have to drain that catch can more often. i always notice the blow by its catching smells strongly of gas, havnt tried to catch and burn it though. it’s been like this when it was stock, but seems like the blow by may have slightly increased since i got the vortex and pipe, which is natural with the extra fueling, timing, and revs.
Mine had a little oil in it before I replaced it with a drain hose. But I tip over a lot. Thanks for joining the conversation!
John T. Young i dont fall over often, but the bike is at 12 o clock a lot, not sure how that affects the blow by, i noticed a lot less with amsoil 1040 dirt, i am on my first change of motul 300v 5w40 off-road and see a noticeable amount more in the catch can. the fact that it’s almost all watered down gas is interesting
Not crf450L related, but my crf250r has very strong gas smell in the oil.
Not "L" related but Honda related. Thanks for commenting and adding to the discussion.
Yep, I definitely smell gas in the oil during first oil change, at 300mi. Was stock up until a vortex/yoshimura update about 25 miles ago. May just stick with 600 mile changes with conventional oil instead of attempting longer changes (~1000mi) with synthetic in light of this.
I'm still working on figuring out if it's a leaky fuel injector or... what. Thanks for watching and adding to the discussion.
@@JohnTYoung It would be interesting to know what percentage of people that did the Blackstone test did not get significant gas in there. I'm beginning to suspect the gas thing is a side effect of the race engine design, hence the 600mi interval. It seems unlikely such a widespread issue would be on accident/unknown given its Honda and not a new engine/injectors. We'll see.
Also, could stalling increase gas in the oil? I was definitely stalling the sh*t out of it before the vortex/yoshimura upgrade.
@@jose-tube It could, but there are still people who don't stall, have stock bikes, and have gas in their oil.
I wonder if Honda knows this is part of what you get with this engine design and that’s why they recommend 600 mile oil changes, 🤔
I wonder that too. So far no one at Honda is talking.
John T. Young thank you for responding, I’m looking hard at getting into the duel sport thing myself after a decade of not riding. You seem to really enjoy the crf450l. It seems pretty solid but at over 10k and then another 2k to make it right, seat, exhaust, ecu, tires, fuel tank , and on and on. and now possibly gas in the oil thing. Would you buy the bike again? Any regrets?
@@jayscott8177 I would absolutely buy the bike again, but now there are left overs and way more deals to be had. I paid full price for my bike when they first came out, but now you can find them for around $9k. And you do NOT have too mod it as much as I have mine. Stock, it's still a great motorcycle. ECU and slip on and this bike is amazing.
That I would say is very possibly the exact explanation. Bullet proof engine still needs the right viscosity oil. So changing frequently cancels out the issue. I’m ok with this. Paid off half of my 10k to the dealer and waiting for delivery. I’ve had a lot of dirt bikes in my life. The best ones were always red. I trust Honda.
Interesting, be great to see if you can work out what's happening . I have a husqvarna 701 at present but have eyed up a 450 do to the lighter weight. Main thing stopping me buying one is the short oil service life, If it could be doubled to 1200 miles with the use of fully synthetic oil I would think this bike may be the way forward. What sort of miles per ltr are you getting? Just wondering if it's anywhere near what a 701 can achieve. Volvo cars use a special oil on some of the diesels models to cope with diesel getting into the oil.
I'm getting about 50 MPG, give or take some throttle. I have been using full synthetic since its 1200 mile oil change and to be honest the metal in the oil has been fine. No unusual wear detected. But the gas in the oil and the lowered viscosity still has me concerned. Still trying to work out why.
@@JohnTYoung so that's 50mpg US gallon rather than UK gallon.
So how many miles has your bike done? It's unlikely to be still beding the rings to bore? So fuel is blowing by?
If you put fresh oil in and then do a long ride as soon as you stop can you smell fuel in the oil? Or do you think it's entering when stationary?
@@richielee5398 Yes. 50MPG US. Is there a UK gallon? I am not sure whether it's leaking around the rings while riding or dripping out of the fuel injector when sitting. I have the bike all apart and am going to investigate as soon as the holidays are over.
@@JohnTYoung well I've tracked down a low miles crf450 to start my project on, fingers crossed will pick it up over the next few weeks.
Have you found out any more about the fuel in the oil problem? I will try and do some testing myself.
And yes a UK gallon is 4.6ltrs approximately.
Can't wait to get my bike now. Be interesting to see how it compares to my 701.
I'm going to build a rally tower assy for it like I've done on my 701. How you getting on with the small screen you mounted up?
@@richielee5398 Gotta love a new project! No more info on the oil. My bike is sitting in the snow now, so not a lot of new miles being put on it. I'm thinking I'll try to do 600 miles worth of starts and shut offs without the actual miles and then send the oil in. See if there's still gas in it. I'm sure there will. My nav tower is the Adventure Spec unit with s cut down Bajaworx screen fabricated to it. So far I really like how it looks and works.
I’m #1 of the 3 haha
You're the best.
You're the best.
Let’s not make a mountain out of a mole hill, as they say.
As an aside, I have never had to warm up a cold engine to change the oil because I always plan my oil changes in the bike or truck after a drive of some sort and there have been times that I’ve let oil drain overnight.
BTW, that new skid plate looks slick...
I need to go find a log to sliiiiiiide over to see just how slick it is. Thanks for the advice.
So much for precise fuel injection lol
You need to set the rings people don’t get on it for bursts when bike is new
I don’t own a new 450l I own a 2003 street legal XR400 love it
Jury is still out on what is causing it. I've got a couple of experiments to run yet. I bought the 450L for the fuel injection, among other things. Love not having to play with the carb every time I go for a long ride.
John T. Young they’re nice bikes I can’t afford one I just bought this stole it 500 original miles with two sets of wheels here’s a video $1500.00
th-cam.com/video/ieOTL5GYOIA/w-d-xo.html
Killer deal!
John T. Young yeah I could not low ball her after she pulled out the receipt for the wheels and gave me the stock wheels which are going back on soon
It's a Honda thing,change oil after every ride.
But it's not every Honda. We have lots of people doing oil analysis' that are clean. So....
Paacuala. Lopez
300 miles smells like gas
Thanks for participating.