RV Tank Monitor Panel Gives Bad Fill Level Information - What's Wrong With The Panel -- My RV Works
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My RV Works, Inc., Certified RV Technician, Darren Koepp, has a KIB RV Tank Monitor Panel that is giving the wrong reading about how full the tank is. Darren goes through the process of troubleshooting the system to properly diagnose the problem behind this KIB System's malfunction.
NOTE ABOUT THE METER READINGS: We have since learned that the fluke 325 can only read up to 40K ohms. So we're asking the meter to read something that's out of its scale. That is why the reading was bad.
** KIB Tank Monitor Panel - User Manual & Wiring Info:
www.dutchmen.com/resources/me...
00:00 Intro
01:21 Overview of KIB System
03:35 Overview of Monitor Panel
04:18 Overview of Motherboard Wiring
05:27 Overview of Sensor Probe
09:39 Diagnosing the Issue: Pigtail Test Procedure
11:41 Diagnosing the Issue: Meter Failure
18:00 Demonstration - KIB Panel Sensors In Action
22:28 Diagnosing the Issue: Fresh Tank Sensor
23:53 Diagnosing the Issue: Monitor Panel
24:40 Diagnosing the Issue: Changing the Probe
26:03 Diagnosing the Issue: Conclusion
27:06 Discussion
28:51 Outro
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Topic: RV Tank Panel Monitors and Their Fill Level Readings
System: KIB Tank Monitor Panel
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Film Date: 10/15/2022
Location: Joyce, Washington
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Finally! A repair video on grey, black and holding tank levels that doesn’t tell me I need to clean the doody off the sensors. This is a helpful video!
Huge fan of your videos. Thank you for doing these. Your knowledge and demonstration are incredibly helpful for myself and I'm sure many others! Learning a great deal from you man and I appreciate it.
Super helpful and informative, thanks so much! I just bought my first motor home and am trying to learn every system before I get too far down the road (and many miles from most of my tools). I’m in Oklahoma, but I love that I’m wearing my Swain’s General Store shirt when I discovered your channel this morning.
Thanks Darren I learn so much from your videos
I love your videos!!! They help so much especially for us DIY RVers. please keep making more 👍🏽👍🏽
You Are a Great Teacher!!!! Thanks for ALL your Videos!
Hello from Mississippi! Thanks for another VERY informative video, Darren! A lot of great information!
Great amount of information and hella work to diagnose 😮
Thank you sir…!
Awesome video as always Darren! Thank you!
Hello, I'm watching from Wake Forest, NC. I think your analysis and methods are great I've learned alot and fixed some of my problems. Thanks.
Hey Darren, really great diagnosis. Spot on for my panel that always shows black at 2/3. We are in Lancaster TN. The slide still works great, thank you!
Wow, you really know your stuff! Thanks for the video... lots of work in there. I'm looking forward to your video on the proper use of a multimeter.
Wow, I would not have assumed a bad board would show the tanks being fuller than they are. Great information! I’m thinking I will do some measurements soon.
BTW, I have a 2018 Jayco Alante 29S and the black and main gray tanks both are 3” out.
Great video Darren it explains a lot thanks again
Very interesting video. I like how you went over everything in detail and explain how it works. As a RV Technician at Goodlife Rv in Webster City Iowa, I wish I would have discovered this video a long time ago. Would have saved me a lot of time in the troubleshooting process. I have watch a lot of you videos and am always looking out for more.
Thanks for showing how “simple” the sensors in the tank is, I was thinking it was more complex. Thank you! I’m in Fort Worth TX
10 days at Lake Martin, Alabama. Thanks for all the good information.👏
Great video, great experiment thank you
Your video is very informative and helpful. Lots of valuable information simplified. Thanks very much.
As always, excellent video....the best on TH-cam!! My black water sensor gave it up a long time ago so now once a week I take my flashlight and pier down the hole and voila I can see how full my tank currently is and time to drain the tank. I suppose a measure stick (where its wet) would work as well....
Thanks for doing this vid! I'm working on a 2001 keystone sprinter lemon in hemet cali that is basically lipstick on a pig. been going nuckin futs trying to get good info on troubleshooting this system. your vid is a 1 stop shop for my whole set of issues. you rock!
Great video! Helped me so much in diagnosing!
Great video. Very helpful. Thank you. I am in Lawrenceville Georgia.
Hello, I'm watching from Vineyard, CA (near Sacramento). I think your analysis and methods are great I've learned a lot and fixed a few issues. Thanks.
Great troubleshooting video! Its Saturday night and I love watching this stuff. No wonder why I'm single. NE Florida Lol
You just shed some light on my Tank Sensors.. Thank You (springfield ma)
You probably saved me hundreds of dollars with this video. Thank you so much.
Such incredible useful information. (Southeastern Louisiana)
You earned a fan and a future reference in time of need as well. When I saw that oscilloscope on the bench it just rattled off my inner electronics life. As far as I am concerned when I see someone with an oscilloscope, I know you are certified to speak electronics.
Thank you Sir! CW tech syracuse NY
Thanks Darin from Winnipeg Manitoba Canada
Love the videos! When I taught in Athens Texas I recommended Klein CL800
Thankyou for that video I'm in East Texas
Thanks for the video. I've been having that problem many years after buying my trailer brand new. Yes, I tried the dish detergent stuff and it seemed to help for awhile then the problems came back but only in the grey tank. More years went by and then the problem came up in the fresh water tank then on our last trip it showed up in the black tank.
Ironically, after I park the trailer for several months, the problem seems to go away then appears sporadically with no rhyme or reason. I guess I'll try and replace that panel next.
Thanks for that very informative video. Great help. From the Chilean Patagonia
Darren, Love it when a man gets out all his toys to sort it out. Check out the $20 Harbor Freight meter. Works better than my Fluke. Go figure.
I just posted the same think. My Fluke is not that great. way overpriced.
Thank you!
Great video. I like the simple explanation, it makes sense. Tarpon Springs, Florida.
This was great you have saved me a lot of money on many things with my rv
From Hattiesburg Ms
Thank you Tommy
Very informational, thank you.
Thank You 🙏
Thank you from Chico, Ca.
Nice information. Stockton, California
Toledo Ohio, thanks for the info 🙂
great course thanks for indepth testing and analysis . from ontario canada
Nice job !
Albuquerque New Mexico good vidio your the best teacher
Thanks for the info on why my fluke was reading off.
We don’t see enough meter use from content providers, as it’s our window into the electrical world. As an ex sparkie, now EIC designer, I was impressed by your meter competence.
Thanks for the comment, we are putting together a meter best practices series. It's something we're working on as we get time. But there has been a lot of request on meter best practices. So stay tuned for that one LOL
Super informative! My 2 year old class C has fresh water tank under the bed. You can fill it full and it reads empty. The control board is good. I’ve new probes and was debating replacing very soon, I just find it very unusual after two years your fresh water tank reads empty. I see more related to grey and black tanks than anything.
Great Video with very detailed info on sensors. I am curious if Airstreams use a similar process? Anyway, thanks for the awesome instruction. Take care. Dave.
After finally stopping my procrastination of getting underneath my 5th wheel, remove the underbelly cover under the black and grey1 tanks I finally got the 1/3 sensor replaced last night. I felt accomplished finally getting off my ars and getting it done! Yay for me! Right? WRONG!
I had the GoPro going for my channel doing the job. Got the sensor replaced as I commentary the procedure, went back with the camera, excited to show my accomplishment for my video, pressed the "grey1 tank" button and found... IT STILL BEING 1/3! Well, my evening of video creation came to a screeching halt! So I thought a bad sensor is at fault... NOPE! Showed the same thing.
This morning, as I googled "CHANGED MY TANK SENSOR BUT STILL MAKES ME LOOK STUPID" and finally found this video!
Thank you sir for this amazing information!
I'm brand spanking new to your channel and am now a subscriber for future stupidity I may encounter.
Hi, thank you for your channel I really like the way you explain things. I am trying to learn to do my own repairs on my RV, but I run into the problem of not knowing how to access various areas. It looks like I would have to practically tear the RV apart and rebuild it to get to certain things. Could you make videos showing how to get to various areas?
Great info video however all sorts of different problems with in tank sensors-I went to a seelevel II system on both of my motorhomes and never have had a problem! added benefit is the percentage readings are more accurate indication!
Great video. I’m one of those that always thinks it’s the sensors.
Great stuff, and another awesome educational video. Our trailer is 11 years old, and the black sensors are still accurate because we wand flush it every trip. The gray started to stick on 1/3rd full when empty, so I changed them out to the Horst sensors. The 1/3rd sensor had black crud stuck to it. At that time, I discovered the sensor wires were incorrectly connected from the factory. The full and 2/3rd wires were reversed. You never know what you'll find. Keep up the great work. It helps more than you know.
Awesome instructional video....I really appreciate the in depth details. Looks pretty easy the way you presented it. Can you go into more detail as far as the white sensor and where that is connected to on the panel? Thanks again for this video...my tanks are not reading correctly, and I will definitely use this video to help me troubleshoot.
Well done video. Thanks from Victoria, BC Canada.
Our pleasure!
Most clamp style meters have an upper range on resistance of less then 100kohm. They are used mostly for testing electrical circuits that are voltage. Your resistance can be determined by first measuring your voltage and then the current flow then using Ohm's Law to calculate the resistance. I do however, believe that your video is of great assistance to a person that wants to repair or trouble shoot their RV especially when the wait time and cost at an RV repair facility is so very high.
If you read the specs on your meters it will tell you the range that it accommodates. Fluke ammeters typically do 10K or maybe 60K. Klein makes a cheap ammeter that does it all (60Mohm for a CL600 for example.)
Read your manuals! I had 2 journeymen spend all day tracing a fire alarm EOL resistor. When they found it they claimed that the resistor was bad - nope! Fluke clap-ons go to about 10K and it was a 45K resistor.
Great explanation
Alain
Winnipeg Manitoba Canada
Atoka Tennessee, great job
do you have any videos on the ones that stick to the tank? this is probably one of the best info videos i have seen.
Sad those Fluke meters didn't work. I have the same situation that my Fluke meter is giving me incorrect Ohm Results and my Cheap Harbor freight gives me correct results. I know because i have 20 new parts that all test ok with the Cheap Harbor Freight but give me an OL with the Fluke. I don't think I'll ever buy another Fluke. Your videos are great and super helpful. Your an Excellent teacher. Thanks.
Good video. The real problem with the greatest majority of wrong readings is dirt in the tank making a connection even when there is no water at the sensor. I've been RVing over 40 years and have not found a reasonable method to clean the tanks including the sensors. Yes there can be component failure but inaccurate tank readings due to residue in the tank causes the display board to report wrong information.
thank you, in my experience the vast majority of monitor failure is NOT the actual monitor like you said..Just a bad design from the get go.
Thank you so much for this video. They should call you Henry David since you are so Thoreau
The fluke 325 can only measure up to 40,000 ohms resistance. You said you were looking for 188k. It’s out of range, hence the OL displayed.
Excellent observation. I looked up the specs and confirmed that you are absolutely correct. Thank you so much for pointing us out. It helps Solve the Riddle.
Cheers ,
Darren
I have one of these panels for a van build. I haven't installed it yet, but thanks to your thorough evaluation I'm going to get out my Ohm meter and see if my panel works properly. It would be interesting to know what percentage of them are defective. Could be something as simple as a diode. Only an experienced AV engineer could be this thorough. Thanks.
I worked on the 787
in East Texas, doing RV holding tank hydro-jetting and repairs.
This monitor technology used in RVs was adopted from industrial tank monitor systems developed in the early 20th century because it was cheap, not because it was technically appropriate. The industrial tank systems were normally for single-fluid types that were often solvents in their own right, including water, which reduced the potential for, and frequency of, fouling. Expecting them to work accurately most of the time in waste tanks in RV's was, from the beginning, just a demonstration of the lack of engineering knowledge that is involved in the RV industry as the limits of the technology were clearly not grasped--or they just installed them anyway because they were cheap and (occasionally) better than nothing. There are appropriate non-contact technologies available.
A Simpson 260 always gave me the right readings over all digital meters the digital meters always left me chasing false readings.
Follow up question
Best way to clean a stock sensor in all tanks ?
Hi neighbor, I live in Port Townsend, WA
Thanks again for this video....bought 2 brand new panels and put them through your test and just like your video..both fresh water indicators read wrong. Looks like this very common. Looking to find another brand. See level looks like a great option as the sensors do not go on the inside of the tank. Thoughts anyone?
Darin, our 2003 Newmar Dutch Star has s 5 light system. E, 1/4, 1/2, 3/4, Full. On the tanks they only have two white wires. Each in a foil tape about 2"x 6" and they are at about the same height on the tanks. They come out of a little board (1"x1")on each tank that has 3 wires , black, blue and red. That little board appears to be attached to the tanks by foam tape. How does this work. I'm wanting to update this system to one that shows % (0-100%). Thanks for posting I've got that little red ac/dc amp clamp. It was cheap, did DC and works well. Glad to see you also liked it.
Another great video. The freshwater lead was producing values different from the gray and black. Could it be the calibration of that current reading is not tolerant of the variation those leads produce? I.e. if 4 to 6 was the rang for 1/3 fulll. On the fresh blue lead you got say 3.7. That then fell into the 2/3 calibration.
HI i'm samuel and i'm from St Vincent in the caribbean thanks for the info don't own an rv yet but very interested
This was one of the most complete videos I've ever seen on TH-cam. Thank you. I know about each piece in the system but I've never seen it put together and explained the way you did it. GREAT JOB!!
Thank you Darren, very informative. Marcelo here, watching from Austin Texas
Wuold you recommend any other monitor that is more reliable?
thx from calgary ab
That's the exact same panel I have in my Coachmen Apex Nano travel trailer. I like how the brown wire is for the black tank. Brown = 💩
Ha!
Love the video. My kbi panel shows each tank full when a tank button is pressed. Tanks are empty. Bad wire from battery plus, minus or battery motherboard?
Sweetwater, TX
Fluke meters are fine. OL is "Out of Limit". Your specific meter(s) have range scaling, check each meters spec.s
I would expect those that did not provide a reading can either not read that high of a resistance or not on right setting to measure that high. Please let us know if you checked for that. OL on all my meter just means the resistance is higher than it can measure. Might be open might just be a very high resistance.
This. The 345 is only good to 40kohms. He said the sheet says 188kohms, hence the OL reading.
We have since learned that the fluke 325 can only read up to 40K ohms. So we're asking the meter to read something that's out of its scale.
Yay. glad to know the issue with the meters! You do a fantastic job.
The reason the 325 didn't give you enough value is because of the internal resistance of the meter not being able to push enough current.
VERY interesting Darren. We happen to have an old KIB where only half of it is functioning. I can get readings on the Battery, Fresh, and Black tanks, but absolutely *nothing* - not even an empty light for the Gray and Galley tanks. I figure it must be the KIB unit and not my sensors. Is there a way to test it if/when I pull the unit off the wall?
most people don't have mutable meters I wonder why the fluke Meter not sure if that's the correct name or spelling lol didn't read correctly great video as always
Ok Darrin I'm troubled with your Fluke readings. I am getting ready to start RV repair classes this January. And I was able to find a new, without the box FC-376 for less than half the price. Did I make a mistake? I used Fluke meters where I worked before retirement, but they were not clamp meters. I deliberately jumped on this meter when I saw it on Ebay because I knew how good and how expensive they normally are. Great video BTW, I'm learning a great deal from you. Thank you for that.
We have since learned that the fluke 325 can only read up to 40K ohms. So we're asking the meter to read something that's out of its scale.
What do you recommend forholding tank additives? I saw one of your videos recommending Pine Sol and Calgon bath beads. I can't find that video. What was the mixture; etc..
Just wondering how the control board issue might apply to the IN-Command system, or where the control board would be as I have one gray tank that reads 2/3 even when empty.
Colorado
👍👍
Technology!!!! They should have kept it simple and used the float and level indicator gauge just like the Oil tank sight gauge.
This video was tremendous, but I’m struggling a bit with the conclusion. I’ve never seen a camper that shows accurate black tank reading even brand new, so what do you replace? Is there a better one?
Does that sensor block have some kind of semiconductor in it? That could cause screwy readings. In order to read resistance the meter has to put a voltage across the probes. The more expensive meters may use less voltage (normally a good thing), but not enough to activate the P-N boundary of the semiconductor.
We have since learned that the fluke 325 can only read up to 40K ohms. So we're asking the meter to read something that's out of its scale.
@@MyRVWorks Wow, not a good meter for electronics work. I have resistors over 1M ohm. There are so many not well known differences between electronics and power distribution that create gotchas.
@@MyRVWorks thank you for clarifying, I was left hanging there for a bit as I have been wanting to by a 325 for a while. So if you get an OL you better check with another meter. Does fluke make a clamp -on that can read that resistance?
@@mrfixit454 the 393 and the 902 will do 60kohms and the T6-1000 will do 100k.
You can get the 393-FC new on eBay from Japan for about 495USD. Most other places are $650 to 1,000. And here in Canada I'm seeing them over 1500 in Canadian Rupees 😂
wow just came across your channel for first time. I love you breaking things down to a level of understanding. excellent job. from pennsyvania
I’m in Kamloops BC. I lost my holding tank on the way up to the lake. When the tank fell out it disconnected from the wires. I think I can figure this out now
great information. check the sensor wire first. thanks again Don from vacaville CA
My panel is one of all in one panels, that has the battery sensor, the clean/grey/black sensors, also the same large panel has the my gasoline (toy hauler gas tank) sensor, generator starter/primer and most of my trailer switches (lights, water pump, water heater etc), will I have to replace the whole large panel?
Love the video. One question I have what happens if you put the sensors in the water in a different order? Also what or how is the motherboard knowing what sensor to use? Electricity is my weak point and think of it as water in a pipe. Forgot to add BC, Eastern Fraser Valley
Regardless of the order the sensors are put in the water, the value on the meter will be the same with respect to the sensor and therefore the monitor panel will react to that voltage value. So for that video, I could have put One sensor in at a time and taken the others out but the meter reading would be consistent with that color wire probe.
@@MyRVWorks Thanks for your reply. So the panel looks at cumulative resistance to determine what level light to luminate? And again thanks for the video's for our education and entertainment.