big request...Eckhartsladder fixes the battle of Exegol, he can replace the superweapons and the location but the principle must remain the same...Palpatine has an army of superweapons or a single superweapon and a citizens fleet gathered by Lando or Poe ends up stopping it
In fact all the horses were force sensitive clones. They released them from Palpatine's underground stable. That's why tilting the ships wouldn't have worked.
@@OxxotrOxxotro them being force sensitive clones is now legends. In Canon each and every horse was a death star, with special force and spacetime warping glasses so that the entire galaxy can watch with naked eyes when they are fired.
@@charliem6467 did you watch the video? 16,000 ships at the VERY most and that’s already being considerate, only 300 of which could go 1v1 with a venator, that being the various Mon Cal cruisers such as the MC95. Vs 5000 Venators that held 420 fighters each, had pilots and crew that were literally bred for war, and on top of that a couple hundred newer ships such as the ISD and Victory class, and possibly a couple mandator class super star destroyers. Looking at galaxy fleet composition, only the bigger MC models and frigates were capable of carrying fighters, and most ships were just converted civilian freighters and older model ships not to be used in military action. Example: the Pelta class was present, despite already being outdated by the time of the clone wars and even in a 20 to 1 advantage against a Venator would not be able to win.
The battle of exygol was that battle where the 5 year old thinks of everything that's OP, gives it too the bad guys, and then magically the good guys win even when it makes no sense.
@@charliem6467 how is that a dumb take it’s literally true there should have been no way he lost but no fucking Disney thought that’s palps should announce himself to everyone basically fucking himself
??? Well not all of the resistance ships or ships in general would be that old per say tho it is a mishmash of ships from all over. The Republic ships by the time of the new trilogy would be 60 something years old in the timeline.
@@acendantoverlord5737 I think we are looking at each fleet when they had their debut in each movie, so technically the Republic would still have the advantage.
@@pixeltcat I definitely agree the Republic wins but it still doesn’t change the fact that from the resistance’s perspective their fighting 60 something year old ships and while “some” of the Resistance ships are “newer” and a little more advanced. Like Eckhart said MC90’s I think? Are probably a little superior to Venators and resistance star fighters also have shields while Republic Starfighters didn’t, to my knowledge tho I could be wrong? Their “Debut” doesn’t change the fact they are from two different time periods.
Like how did Lando get a bunch of people to come but frickin Luke’s sister ( I know who she is I just forgot how to spell her name) not get a fleet in the last Jedi!?
Republic capital under attack* all reinforcements are contacted and take some time to get there. Exogol: hey so there's this sith fleet. *everyone has joined the battle* Me: that doesn't make sense or the logic is flawed
We don't have definite numbers for the Eternal Fleet. It should be noted though that the Star Forge Battle in KOTOR was also large according to secondary media, with more than 1000 ships on each side.
While I do think the Galaxy fleet is impressive, I think VERY few fleets could take on the full power of the republic’s fleet especially with highly trained clone pilots.
@CT-2307 but that the thing fighters many many if count let say min 1k vent and again there *more thousands most likely more but let say 1k vent alone.. 484 planes which include example 34 arc 170 192 v wings and 192 light inter so let say min of 200 planes just alone that is 200k planes.... give or take... now add real amount fighters not ground ones space 420 planes not included Clone Z-95 Headhunter since not really amount but know alot.. so for now just put 420x1000 is 420k... planes... so image thousands lol yah 16k total ships vs all of them but yes ik there bigships which bit more avd but still vents could hold iy own with planes so in the end Coruscant just out beats the fleet just because pure fighters and vents which all train clones mind you and fully battle war ready.. now them vs 10k star destroyers i would even know but if put my money then they would win also let say 10k vents vss 10k star destoyers is 4.2m figters haha which its my be an x ray but those still meant fight ships like vents so yah my mind go on them also unless includes other fleet enteral empire then unfair both sides.. just pure mass and avd tech
Mon Cals are more tanky than firepower output. And Venators needed several 800m crusiers to be effectivly matched for firepower. Not to mention the Ventaor being a litteral carrier. Non designed for ship to ship. No you mean not optimised for ship to ship. They are allround cruisers in their role. They in legends at least has an absurdly good PD array.
@@OrDuneStudios if anything the one thing the venator was more for broad side fighting and seeing how the clone wars was basically inspired by ww1 frontal assault tactics I think the republic fleet would def had mighty balls of beskar to go face to face with no fear and tho idk if it’s canon but we did see it as a cutscene on the battle of kamino in battlefront 2 recent game the venator had a mini laser on the under belly of the ship ( palpaltine really like big microwave guns ) also In the battle seeing as how they had Finn going full Valhalla moment charging in with horse I’d the clones would also have the minds to board the enemy fleet like they did in the original cartoon adaptation of the clone wars as well also if u remember the battle scene of grievous leading his ships into a asteroid ring the clone ( anakins idea really) to use the at te walkers as gun platforms as well since those walkers have magnified feet and are air tight sealed so I would give to the clones to use everything they have aboard a single venator to fight to the last man FOR THE REPUBLIC!!
@@battledroidcommander234 They are mixture of battleship and a carrier/ ya they were cloned and train since birth to have kill in combat/ they were made to kill jedi
Resistance Officer: "All Deserters will be sho- wait where's the guy who shoots deserters?" The guy who shoots deserters: "I'm not payed enough for this shit, dasvidanya!"
Anyone who's played Empire at War knows how this goes down. Generally a well coordinated attack of starfighters and capital-ships annihilates a disorganised mob of enemy star-ships. It's simply a matter of coordinating and allocating your various assets against the threats they can best deal with. Friendly fighters bog down enemy fighters and capitals, your own ships eliminate their escorts/corvettes (anti-star fighter ships), then your bombers and capitals move in to demolish what's left. Commanded by battle-hardened Jedi and clone officers the Republic fleet would fight like a competent EaW player against an easy level AI.
As someone who’s played the EaW RaW (Republic at War) mod, I can safely say the way I win is just by dropping a super star destroyer on top of their heads and letting it soak the hits while a dozen assorted smaller SDs jump in and shoot everything that’s not them
I think the republic feet would win cause it's an organised military fleet and not a jumbled mess of random ships, also the crew are clones who have been trainer since childhood for their specific duty
@@davidordaz5251 I meant the Venator is more of a carrier than a battleship and having more Starfighters is better than big ships. Real world example WWII US aircraft carriers.
The Exogol battle was a total pathetic shitshow. All those ships and we got less action than we did with the much much smaller fleet at Endor. Was it a budget problem? I've seen better and longer fleet battles from episodes of Orville which had a fraction of the budget. Babylon 5 rendered it's cgi on toasters and had more engaging fights. Its not just Star Wars, nuTrek has been having the same problem.
When the Cartoon has better Space Battles than the high Budget movies... Stargate also Had quite some nice Space Battles, I Always Loved how Dynamic they looked
Also what about the xyston Star destroyers!? They’d been hyping up palpatines fleet for the whole movie, and in the final battle, the star destroyers literally sit there, shoot, and have the ties do all the work while the galaxy fleet rips them apart.
Pretty much. Frankly, all the battles in the Sequels were really underwhelming to me. Particularly when you watch Rogue One's space battle and could see some of the overall tactics being used. The only sequel that you could was TLJ. But they were such DUMB tactics they hurt...
@Ruosong Gao they wanted to do a new ship model for the xyston but they ran out of time to develop a new custom model which takes quite a bit of time to complete
@@bencoomer2000 I'm pretty sure eck did a video on it but (a comparison) but both the republic and empire also made dumb tactical decisions. It's not just a sequel trilogy thing. But it also kinda shows that no matter how powerful a faction is, you always have incompetent leaders who dont always make good decisions. And although I kinda agree that the sequel trilogy didn't have overwhelming space battles. Compared to the ot and pt, the sq was able to do better graphics and cgi which was a plus compared to the more limited trilogies
Just saw the battle of Scariff again. Man is it an amazing fight. The feels when Jynn and Cassian die. The moment Vader comes out being the most scary thing ever, just a couple of simple footsteps and after that a easy fight for Vader with a amazing score. I still see Rogue One as my favourite Star Wars movie, however I have more hope now that the Mandalorian was such a cool series. Also, I just started with the animated series of the Clone Wars and man have I been missing out!
Rogue One was brilliant. I know The Mandalorian is supposed to be it’s own story but I hope we see a massive space battle that gets screen time, maybe at the end of Season 3 we could see a massive battle between Mandalorian’s and the Imperial Remnant above Mandalore. Would be amazing to see.
Yeah, 5 venator-class star destroyers are well thought out and interestingly designed and hundreds of different ships, all unique in their own ways is a discount endgame finale.
I know the Republic wins, you only glossed over the star fighters which would actually be one of the deciding factors. I am going to go with a conservative 1500 Venator SDs there, and just count their fighter complement only not including the fighters of the reinforcement fleet ships of different classes. The Venators have a complement of 420 star fighters of various types. I'm not going to break down the raw numbers by type, but in total with just the 1500 Venators you have 630,000 star fighters. Say you only send out 10% of those as an attack force you still have 63,000 star fighters and those alone would wreak any of the smaller ships of the Galaxy fleet, then the fighters and capitol ships just mop up what's left . That is the one thing they never showed properly about the Venators , their fighter complement is deadly . Even in the 3 ship battle groups you see in Clone Wars that is 1260 star fighters .
did you forget that the resistance probably has hundreds of anti-starfighter ships and their mon calamari cruisers would frick the venator star destroyers anyway
Well how does that work? The republic would have lost almost every battle depicted in the clone wars show if it wasn’t for anakin and the jedi. So take them out of the equation. And the republic is really exposed
Lord Nagant Yeah if he was counting Separatist ships alongside Republic ships, he’d have to include First a Order/Sith Eternal ships with the galaxy fleet to be fair
I think it's also safe to say that most of the exegol ships wouldn't have been fully crewed, whilst the republic ships would have had crews that at had been trained from birth
Who will win a highly trained military with the best personal Vs the people army that was quickly assembled and probably not having any tactical plan. If anything the sith eternal should’ve won but they had the worst ship ever made in Star Wars plus the planet prevents them from flying up? I wanna say the coruscant fleet would win due to their high level of training and how it’s organized. Compared to the gung ho “galaxy fleet”
@@OrDuneStudios the clones to would imploy using the walkers as gun platforms like they did in the cartoon adaptations so i would say the clones boarding the galaxy fleet but like a speed run on steroids
I think it depends on the circumstances. If you combine the basic scenarios of Exegol and Coruscant together (Resistance has surprise attack from above while Republic is defending a planet in-atmosphere/low orbit and both sides get very close very quickly), then most of the Republic's advantages go out the window. Training and discipline can't do you a whole lot of good if you're being shot at from 12 different directions and don't have cover. What the Republic would need to win this is space and time - the ability to break the Resistance fleet into chunks and deal with them one at a time, the ability to rest and resupply, the ability to use terrain (asteroids and the like) to their advantage, the ability to use their fighters at long distance to weaken the enemy, the ability to degrade the Resistance's morale over time until parts of it abandon the fight. In the Exegol/Coruscant scenario, they have none of that - unless the Resistance's morale breaks, the battle comes down to which side is able to score more hits, and that's probably the side with a 3-to-1 or better numbers advantage. (Especially since the Venator is not a substantially better ship than the Resistance's heavier ships - if they could barely scratch it this would be a cakewalk, but the Galaxy Fleet is full of ships that are at least as good as a CIS Munificent frigate.) Think of it this way: A team of well-trained soldiers with guns can definitely take on a zombie horde if they have space, time, cover, high ground and room to move around. But if they soldiers start off in the same room as the zombies and have no way to escape, they are essentially doomed -- they physically cannot score kills fast enough to defeat the enemy before they take significant casualties themselves and lose most of their fighting ability.
@@michaelramon2411 well your forgetting the millions of star fighters the republic has. No matter how superior your fighter is, your gonna get beat by like a 20 to 1 star fighter duel
10/10 stomp for the Republic. The capital of the galaxy would be guaranteed to possess Star Dreadnoughts. Ten freighters wouldn’t have the slightest chance against a fully armed Recusant-class destroyer with a full complement, and it took a thousand Recusants to draw even with a single Mandator-II, let alone one that’s fully supported by entire formations of Venators and Imperators. The Exegol Fleet would only have fighter complements on a fraction of their ships, and they’d be lucky to have more than a squadron. Let’s say 20%, or 3,200 to be exceedingly generous, and give them two squadrons (24) each, to be exceedingly generous again. Less fighter-carriers than the Republic already, at 5,000 Imperators and Venators. Imperators each have a full wing of six squadrons (72). Venators each have 32 squadrons of interceptors (384) and 3 squadrons of heavy fighters (36). Exegol Fleet gets buried in Republic fighters, and whatever’s left has to deal with coordinated fire from FIVE THOUSAND Star Destroyer-class vessels with veteran crews. Backed up by several Star Dreadnoughts lobbing obscene long range volleys with impunity from behind one of the most formidable defensive screens in galactic history. It’s not going to happen.
No, the republic would fall. The republic has like, 1 Imperator or something. If they had a Mandator or any Star Dreadnoughts, then they would've shown it in Revenge of the Sith, but they DIDN'T. Therefore the Mandator is in another part of the galaxy altogether or just doesn't exist. The first order had a Mandator IV, the Resistance killed it. They didn't even have full support of all ships in the galaxy then! Plus the Resistance has a lot of MC cruisers and the support of some of the best pilots in the galaxy. They have the millenium falcon, a ship that has been proven to survive Imperial-IIs, so a much weaker ship like the Venator wouldn't suffice. The Resistance have B wings that can destroy star destroyers. Also, some resistance ships (e.g Corellian Corvette) are designed for anti-fighter combat. 5,000 ships? The resistance have like 1 billion at least, lol.
@@Erolsaurus dude that’s just plot armor if the millennium falcon actually took a couple turbo laser hits it would be done and imperial II’s don’t have anti fighter and small ship weapons anyway, also we don’t see nearly all the shi that were at coruscating in the movie there were allot of ships there that we only saw a little bit of, so just cuz they didn’t show a victory or tector it doesn’t mean those ships weren’t there, we only saw a very small snippet of the battle. did u not hear eck talk about how they don’t show everything on screen and how the republic most likely had a few victory’s, tectors, and imperators. And the ventators also have 100s of advanced fighters and bombers which would prob shred through any of there ships, and around 400 fighters being held in a single venator uno, and seriously you don’t actually think there was ‘1 billion’ ships at all, like seriously there was approximately 16000 ships and most of them civilian ships from a gud portion of the galaxy. And the few hundred or so mc ships of varying quality and model were only a small amount of the mostly barely armed civilian ships, and with the thousands of venators, 100s of frigates, heavy and light cruisers, and a handful of victory’s, tectors and imperators, and not to mention the thousands upon thousands of republic fighters with all of them coordinating together and using tactics, strategy while all being under a command structure aswell would be much more organized than a around 16000 mostly barely armed civilian ships and the few hundred or so mc ships mostly all uncoordinated and just shooting the enemy randomly, I think the republic would win, and yes the exegol fleet would definitely dew a big chunk of damage but not enough before they get shredded.
@@Erolsaurus dude did u read his comment at all? The republic has a bit over a million fighters which can shred the entire exegol fleet I don’t think a ca-90 could have any chance of surfing the swarm of y wings and heavily shielded fighters and interceptors, also no offense but o think u should seriously learn about republic ships
>The capital of the galaxy would be guaranteed to possess Star Dreadnoughts. We don't see any. >The Exegol Fleet would only have fighter complements on a fraction of their ships Not all of their starfighters need to be carried in, miniturisation of hyperdrive technology made hyperspace-capable snubfighters way more common by the time of the Battle Of Exegol.
Lets just say that there were up to 3000 venators in Coruscant, if each of those venators Carried 5 starfighters each then that would amount to 15,000 starfighters. Obviously a single venator isn't gonna have just 5 starfighters each so the Coruscant fleet would win by a landslide
A Venator has a fighter compliment of 420 fighters and bombers. I'm not sure how many of each type. Here is a comment from Ted-71tallica: "I know the Republic wins, you only glossed over the star fighters which would actually be one of the deciding factors. I am going to go with a conservative 1500 Venator SDs there, and just count their fighter complement only not including the fighters of the reinforcement fleet ships of different classes. The Venators have a complement of 420 star fighters of various types. I'm not going to break down the raw numbers by type, but in total with just the 1500 Venators you have 630,000 star fighters. Say you only send out 10% of those as an attack force you still have 63,000 star fighters and those alone would wreak any of the smaller ships of the Galaxy fleet, then the fighters and capitol ships just mop up what's left . That is the one thing they never showed properly about the Venators , their fighter complement is deadly . Even in the 3 ship battle groups you see in Clone Wars that is 1260 star fighters."
Ok so, I’m going to do some maths. Assuming that of the Republic Fleet over Coruscant around 3,000 of the 5,000 ships were Venator-Class Star Destroyers, and that they didn’t have their full carry capacity of 420 ships, but instead are at 75% strength, that works out to 945,000 star fighters. Of course this number could easily fluctuate from over 2.1 million if all the ships were Venators at 100% strength, to a mere 315,000 if the complement of the 3,000 Venators were at 25%, but these are still crazy large numbers. The number of 3,000 isn’t based on any calculations or lore, but instead made with the assumption that they made up the backbone of the Republic Fleet, and in all honesty, would probably have been higher. If there is any lore out there saying what % of the fleet Venators made up, please let me know, because I would like to ensure the greatest amount of accuracy I can get.
I want a star wars game where you sneak into a scrap yard and hijack a to be destroyed lukrehulk battleship and upgrade the ship as a mobile base for your fighters and larger ships
Who would win, Maul's Shadow Collective at full strength or Grand Admiral Thrawn at full strength? Edit: Thrawn at full strength vs the coruscant fleet
Thrawn, maybe. He clearly outclassed or completed with the best of the Republic Generals, but then there are Jedi generals The republic would have a bigger fleet with more fighters and better disciplined soldiers, but lesser technology (to a degree) The Imperial fighters were utter , but the star destroyers and even corvettes can fight better than venators.
@@OutspokenSeeker the only problem is that all of episode 9 is meant to take place within 16 hours and lando getting all the ships within only a few hours, which is a bit unrealistic
@@warrengouldthorpe5091 right? Imagine having to convince all those people who weren’t exactly enthusiastic about fighting the first order to try and hand together in an unorganised pack to attack the biggest collection of manned and armed imperial destroyers seen in decades. It’s an impossible feat.
@@warrengouldthorpe5091 maybe Lando convince everyone to join the battle and overthrow Palpatine since he brought oppression since the clone wars ended and Empire rise to power
The Coruscant fleet makes sense because it is at the height of the Clone Wars and grew over years as a response to the conflict against the Separatists. The fleet at Exegol is stupid because it is randomly assembled in a couple hours from groups who have previously shown no interest in opposing the First Order. Classis Jar Jar Abrams thinking that just making something bigger automatically makes it better, even if it makes no sense.
It might have been forgivable if there was actually a fight between the 2 groups. But there was nothing. Just some star destroyers being star destroyed and a big lightning storm. Huge waste of time and CG
I read or watched somewhere that the Republic had some 2,000 Venators at the battle, given a Venator carries 420 Star Fighters piloted by clones then in theory they would have over 840,000 Star Fighters. Given that these were piloted by experienced and battle hardened clones, then this would give the definite advantage to the Republic Fleet with numbers and experience.
This is why I feel like around 4 million clones would have not been enough, that would mean around 2/3 of the entire clone army would have been crewing ships at fighters at corusant
You didn't talk about morale and training, the Clones have a massive advantage in this regard as they would fight and die for much longer than the Galaxy fleet. Especially bas the Galaxy fleet doesn't have the threat of Palpatine in this match up to instill a sense of do or die.
I think the galaxy would’ve not forget him tho seeing as many grew old would have the fear to push them but these are the goddamn clones bruh FOR THE MF REPUBLIC
Been watching this channel for years now, prolly 4 maybe 5, still click as soon as I can when you come out with a new video. Love your content! Keep being awesome and making amazing content
But according to Rian Johnson, each of those small civilian ships can just hyperspace ram the large republic ships and easily disable them with the collateral damage. 16 thousand civilian hyperspace missiles vs maybe 8 thousand republic capital ships, resistance fleet would easily win through attrition. If this sounds boring, yes, this is precisely why rian single handedly ruined the star wars universe with that one idiotic scene.
Doesnt work the reasonhyperjumping into a star kills you is gravity the same concept behind interdictors then you are stuck at normal speeds inside a star killing you ramming doesnt work unless the object is in hyperspace in whoch case the act of hyperspace collisoon is disasterous but rian johnson misportrayed it as the ships were not in hyperspace
Hyperspace ramming only works if you have enough mass to not vaporize on impact and do no damage. Which a ship any considerable amount smaller than the Raddus, with its 2x ISD mass, two GIGANTIC hyperdrives, and a perfect distance, can't do.
I once did a vs between the Exegol's Resistance fleet vs The New Republic Fleet (counting ships like the MC90s and captured ISDs) And I concluded it would have been a horrible massacre for the Resistance
As I remember from reading Bloodline, the best military technology was being kept back by individual systems. That many systems refused to join the New Republic, fearing they might become another empire and that some system defense fleets were as good or better than the New Republic fleet. That said, they didn't have the numbers individually and the NRF was largely kept parked so as not to threaten any of the independent systems.
anyone remember how in the last Jedi they say that hyperspace tracking was "new" but in rogue one, a rebel corvette jumped to hyperspace and a star destroyer followed suit towards Tatooine, perfectly behind the corvette at the starting of a new hope.
I love how you mentioned the Republic Commando books when talking about the Battle of Coruscant. That is my favorite Star Wars book series! Yes, the whole hidden military is a massive plot point in the later books for anyone who doesn't know. I also agree that the Republic would win. Even if there are less, the clones are seasoned fighting machines who have trained since birth, while the Exegol fleet is just civvies in some small ships with some severely undergunned big star ships. And, there is that mini Death Star beam we see a Venator use for 3 seconds, that could one shot an MC-95, and just evaporate everything smaller.
Yeah I'm sure hundreds of capital ships including Mon Calamari ships, Nebulon Bs and Corellian Corvettes would fail against 5 venator-class star destroyers that are optimised for anti-starfighter weaponry.
@@Erolsaurus you mean more than 1000 venator star destroyer out of prob 1000 other starships controlled by the best officers of the repubkic with a full war of experience and future imperial officer as well as maybe a millions of fighters and boarding ships since these have huge carrying capacity. Also not forget the clones that work there raised from birth to be warriors. Against A bunch of people that use slow ass bombers...
@@jumperwilli7770 Let's not forget that one is just a crowd of people with just a few ships actually designed for war and no coordination or strategy that could help them againts a full war navy with some of the greatest soldiers specifically created and trained for a galaxy wide conflict and having a wide variety of strategies designed by their best tacticians, not counting the jedi generals that are also fighting that can attack the great ships from inside
@@davidkippy101 The Resistances CR90 corvette following the map seemed barely fit but somehow thousands of ships of similar or drastically bigger size have absolutely no issue even though the came all at once
The main thing I loved about the resistance fleet in episode nine was how it reminded me of Mass Effect three. I’m referring to the giant fleet going to earth 🌎 to fight the reapers lol 😆
I ABSOLUTELY loved and enjoyed watching this AWESOME Versus video!!!! REALLY one of my MOST DEFINITE favorites that I have seen SO fraking FAR!!!! Happy New Year, EckhartsLadder!!! Looking forward to your INCREDIBLE content right here in 2021!!!
Imagine waiting 25+ years to create an entire new fleet at Exogol that will enslave the Galaxy and deciding to tell the entire known universe about it one day before it's ready to launch....
Most people here say the Coruscant fleet would win simply because they don't like the Rise of Skywalker, and provide bad reasons for this fleet winning. The Coruscant fleet has a tactical advantage. The Exegol fleet has a technological advantage (I mean Venators aren't really durable, a MC cruiser could probably take a venators down just by itself without suffering too much damage), a huge number advantage, and if we take this into account (which these videos usually don't), a "pilot" advantage. I mean, clones are bred to be warriors, to be the bests, but they are never depicted as really good pilots. They usually don't survive for long when they fly in TCW and Revenge of the Sith. The Exegol fleet, on the other hand, counts war veterans like Wedge and Lando, Poe who is supposed to be the best pilot of his time, smuggler and bounty hunters that probably fly in less conventional and more effective ways than the clones. Let's face it: the Exegol fleet, after being basically destroyed by Palpatine, still managed to destroy the Sith Eternal fleet. This was helped by the really obvious weak points and stupid design choices but the Sith Eternal are probably among the best ships ever produced in the Star Wars Galaxy, regarding weaponry and overall technology. Also, a theory about coordination: many ships at Exegol are the same model. It's done to reuse the same assets many times, but in universe it could be explained by most of these ships coming frome the same fleets. If that's true, each individual fleet that compose the Exegol fleet probably has its own admiral, chain of command and stuff. What I mean is that it's impossible to coordinate the entire fleet but the fleet itself is probably made of many fleets that have their own level of coordination. I'm not saying the Coruscant defense fleet would lose, I'm saying the answer wouldn't be that obvious and the battle wouldn't be that easy.
Also legends has examples of fleet of smugglers and criminals taking on a fleet of Vong capital ships that are more complicated to take down compared to the Republic ships even unorganised the numbers are still in the Resistance's favour. I would say 7 or 8 times the Resistance fleet would win out of 10.
I would say no, in reality going up against 10,000 xytons which can't move really, no shields / can be blown up with a few shot at their big canon causing ship to blow up/ ( it because if bad writing and plot that they won) if xyton had shields and could move very freely, they have a way better command structure. The reason no is taking the resistance seriously is because it's mostly do to plot that win battles not out of actually tactics or skill Like the clones or even rebels. I mean tlj pretty raddus should been destroyed by a swarm of tie fighters, but didnt. If were talking about combat skills and even in terms of flying the clones beat them hands down/ po while a great pilot isnt going ( they aren't stormtrooper or first order trooper/ they were made to kill jedi) No matter good a ship is or advance it is, if its sitting in a dock without any defenses it going to get blown up. In 16 hours lando is some how able to convince everyone in galaxy to launch a attsck in 16 hours when in tlj when Leia called out for help when first order wasn't no where near that size no one came. These movie have to many problem that I can't take half crap seriously.
The Republic Fleet has some inobvious but, I think, decisive advantages here. One is that it has a unified command structure with a clear chain of command. This is crucial in a large battle where a large number of assets have to be employed in a coordinated way. The lack of an established command structure or clear chain of command may turn the Galaxy Fleet's numbers into a liability here. Even basic communication would be a nightmare with thousands of people all talking at once and no one in charge. The Republic fleet also has a clear fleet structure and doctrine. They have a relatively small number of ship types with each one having a clear role in the fleet. Their ships are designed to work with each other and fit into a coherent doctrine. They can swap crews and pilots around freely between ships of the same type. If an ARC=170 crews gets their fighter shot out from underneath them, you can just stick then in another ARC-170 and they'll be good to go. The maintenance crews will be familiar with the ship and able to do the necessary work quickly and efficiently. Parts. munitions and even the crews themselves are standardized and can be swapped freely between ships of the same type. This logistical advantage could well be *the* decisive factor. I don't know much this transfers to Star wars spaceships but modern high performance military aircraft are complicated and maintenance intensive. Things quickly start breaking under the stress of combat. Fuel and munitions are used up at a rapid rate. Crews tire and need to be rotated out and replaced. It requires an enormous, coordinated logistical and maintenance effort just to keep ships in the fight. Ships in the Galaxy Fleet would start dropping out quickly as systems start breaking down under the stress with no compatible spare parts available since there is such a variety of different ships and so many of them have various ad hoc modifications.
Didn't we learn why having a single control ship for your entire fleet a bad idea during the Clone Wars? Anyway, I'm never better on a fleet that is unable to fly straight up without ATC holding their hand.
considering post war unsc has a super carrier that can fire multiple times over and can vaporize 5 km long ships like theyre nothing, i think the UNSC wins pretty easily with that ship and its hundreds of other 1-2 km long ships while the rebel alliance only had a few dozen capital ships
@@snekkie117 You think the Rebels can win against a galaxy-spanning Empire with a few dozen capital ships? That’s like bringing down the entirety of the modern US Army, Navy, Air Force, and Marine Corps with a single 9mm pistol. I’m all for an underdog story, but that’s simply not possible. There are many engagements throughout the Galactic Civil War that had dozens of Rebel capital ships present. You think that the Rebels have a 100% survival rate against a superior force? According to your numbers, the loss of the Profundity and its escort at Scarif would have virtually sealed the Rebellion’s fate. Let’s also not forget the fact that before the war even started, individual Rebel cells centered around one planet or system had a few capital ships. So...you think that a grand total of 5-10 cells came together and fought off the entire Empire? I’m sorry but you, good sir, appear to have a terrible grasp of the Rebels’ size and scope. The UNSC has exactly ONE supercarrier. It can’t singlehandedly carry the entire UEG Navy on its back. “Supercarrier that can fire multiple times over.” What does that have to do with anything? Virtually every weapon ever can fire multiple times over. Big deal. If you’re referring specifically to the MAC guns, I counter with this: the Infinity is a whale. It won’t be pulling off 360° noscopes against every Rebel target in range. “...vaporize 5km ships like they’re nothing.” When did Infinity ever vaporize a 5km ship? The most powerful weapons on the Infinity are the MAC guns, and they just punch right through without vaporizing anything. That’s the biggest drawback of having projectile weapons instead of directed-energy weapons (with the possible exception of the massive recoil). The UNSC had like a grand total of a few thousand ships, and that’s being generous, considering the absolute massacre that was the Covenant War. Most of them would not be the ginormous battleships that you daydream about. The Rebel Alliance on the other hand has an indeterminate number of warships (certainly more than the dozens you claim), some of which are small and some of which are large, but they all use energy weapons and possess shielding technology, which are two MAJOR advantages when discussing a war with the UNSC, whose ships are notoriously weak against any form of energy weapon and lack shielding of any kind (with the rare exception like Infinity). The Rebels also make extensive use of fighters, and although the X-wings and Y-wings are far smaller than their UNSC counterparts, that’s actually a good thing: they’re smaller targets, lighter, and faster. They are ALSO equipped with shielding and energy weapons. Edit: I edited this comment so much because my phone kept glitching out and cropping my reply
@@patrickspeegle9558 Ok let’s look at hard numbers here. In Legends, the Rebellion had a few hundred capital ships at its height during the Galactic Civil War. However, capital ships in the source book not only included MC80 classes, but smaller and less powerful capital ships the rebellion had such as the Lower MC classes, and things like the liberator carrier. This is still quite a lot, but let’s look at UNSC numbers 2000 estimated capital ships Post-War as of 2559 before the Guardian event. But this is not the main problem the Rebellion has. Star Wars combat differs so much from Halo Naval combat because A. Star Wars doesn’t follow the rules of physics B. All Star Wars space battles take place within visual range. This is because most Turbolasers were manned by human gunners, and the fact that Turbolasers only had an effective range of within visual range. Outside of that engagement range, Turbolasers and Ion Cannons are known to dissipate harmlessly in space. Now take the UNSC’s 2000 capital ships, all of which have at least a singular MAC gun and several of which have NOVA Nukes, which are powerful enough to destroy a planet. (See the book Halo: Envoy for Grey team destroying an entire Elite world with a single NOVA nuke) MAC guns alone would absolutely rip a rebellion fleet to shreds, as the range at which they engage is beyond visual range. They can engage from an infinite distance if they so choose, because MAC cannons fire 300 Ton tungsten uranium depleted rounds, that do not lose momentum because they follow the laws of physics. The rebellion fleet would not even know they are being engaged in a battle before their fleet starts to be destroyed. On the topic of energy shielding and laser weapons, most UNSC ships also had energy shielding, but their shielding protected them against projectiles AND energy directed weapons. In Star Wars, looking at the source books, most ships only had strong Ray shields which only deflected Energy based weapons. As seen in Empire strikes back, a slow moving asteroid was able to break and completely destroy an ISD’s particle shield. Imagine what a MAC traveling at 40% the speed of light could do. I love Star Wars much more than Halo, but this is no contest. The UNSC takes this. Eckarts even did a video on the UNSC vs the Death Star and the UNSC won easily.
@Nicholas Wong In Legends, the Rebellion had a few hundred capital ships at its height during the Galactic Civil War: Where do you get this? I looked and looked and looked, but I couldn't find any single reference to the size of the Rebel navy in Legends to dispute your claim. However, from the canon Star Wars wiki page for the Alliance Fleet: "After the Battle of Yavin, the Rebellion took advantage of its momentum and launched the Mid Rim Offensive, which included thousands of warships and hundreds of battle groups." Furthermore, from the canon page for Mid Rim Offensive: "It [the Mid Rim Offensive] was one of the largest operations the Alliance had ever launched against the Empire, with thousands of ships and hundreds of battle groups participating." (I included the second quote to disprove your inevitable claim that the first quote included Imperial ship counts as well as Rebel ship counts.) We don't know the distribution of ships, but we do know the following: at the Battle of Endor alone, there were "at least 8" Home One-type Star Cruisers and "at least 5" Liberty-type Star Cruisers, as well as at least 14 of those smaller capital ships you mentioned, and a total of at least 15 MC-type Star Cruisers. The Rebel Fleet is evidently far larger than you give it credit for. 2000 estimated capital ships Post-War as of 2559 before the Guardian event: That's gotta be a joke. I've seen lots of estimates that say 2000-3000 ships BEFORE the war. Literally nobody honestly believes that the UNSC (which had a mere 900 planets, most of which were very lightly populated) possessed more than 5,000 ships before the war. Considering how much of a bloody massacre the Covenant War was, it would be generous to assume that they even have 1,000 afterwards. 500-700 would be my bet, and my bet would be that most of them are fairly small too. Star Wars doesn't follow the rules of physics: It seems to me that not following the rules of physics should be an advantage, because the enemy can't anticipate what you'll do. All Star Wars space battles take place within visual range: The ones that we see in the movies, sure. But let's be honest: the reason for that is because nobody would be interested if they were just shooting off into the distance. There were extreme long-range engagements in the Clone Wars TV show (usually 10-30 kilometers). Still visual range for the most part, but extremely long visual range. A couple years ago, I estimated that the TLJ incident occurred at a range of around 65-80 km, IIRC. In the novels (which are canon), engagements frequently take place at far longer ranges. I think most Star Wars fanboys usually agree that typical effective ranges is typically a few hundred to a few thousand kilometers with various weapons. (In the Battle of Endor, we saw explosions dotting the surface of ships ranging from one end of the battle zone to another, which is a distance of about 200 kilometers IIRC.) Now take the UNSC's 2000 capital ships: Again, no. All of which have at least a single MAC gun: the MAC gun's usefulness is hugely overstated. It can't be aimed independently of its owning ship, which means the entire ship must maneuver to fire. It also places limits on how many ships a single UNSC ship can engage with at once, while the Rebel ships could engage as many ships as they have turrets. Several of which have NOVA nukes: Now I *know* you're not being serious. The NOVA bomb is known to have been produced in low numbers, and as far as I know, it was only detonated once or twice, one of which was accidental. If many UNSC ships carry it, they would definitely use it more. MAC guns alone would absolutely rip a Rebellion fleet to shreds: Excuse me if I doubt your claim. MAC guns have extremely long recharge times (unless they vastly decrease the muzzle velocity, which makes them massively less dangerous), and at long ranges, targets can either shoot down the MAC rounds or avoid them. At a range of 1,000 kilometers, it would take 33 seconds for a standard ship-mounted MAC gun to cross the distance. Any Star Wars ship (except perhaps the Executor) could *certainly* avoid the attacks or shoot them down at such range. Obviously, this mostly negates the range advantage, because they CAN'T engage at infinite distance. Besides, the standard MAC gun has an *ideal* yield of about 63 kilotons, and Star Wars frequently exhibits firepower far in excess of that. (The existence of the Death Star should more or less indicate the state of things; the Death Star blasts apart an entire planet at over 1% of the speed of light.) fire 300 ton tungsten uranium depleted rounds: actually it's 600 tons do not lose momentum because they follow the laws of physics: No shit. The rebellion fleet would not even know they are being engaged in a battle before their fleet starts to be destroyed: There's a technology sci-fi ships tend to have that I don't believe you're familiar with. This technology is called a sensor system. Perhaps you've heard of it? They can detect ships and objects in space at great ranges, so...your idea of a UNSC victory before the Rebels even know they're being attacked is somewhat misguided, to say the least. On the topic of energy shielding and laser weapons, most UNSC ships also had energy shielding: You're just making stuff up now. Energy shields for the UNSC are a very recent development, only made possible because they reverse-engineered Kig-Yar personal shields. From Halopedia.org: "Humans have used energy shield technology for a relatively brief amount of time...Near the end of the Human-Covenant War, ONI scientists successfully reverse-engineered the technology used in Kig-yar point defense gauntlets, leading to the technology's incorporation into the Mark V MJOLNIR Powered Assault Armor and all later iterations of the series...One of the UNSC's most recent breakthroughs in energy shield development came with the creation of the YSS-1000 Sabre orbital fighter, which is the first human spacecraft known to use energy shields...Some warships also received shields post-war, with at least the UNSC Infinity, its embarked frigates, and the Autumn-class heavy cruiser possessing energy shielding." Notice that the article said "*some*", not "most." Other than the Autumn-class heavy cruisers, Infinity, and its Strident-class frigate complement, literally no UNSC capital ship EVER has been confirmed to possess energy shields. but their shielding protected them against projectiles AND energy directed weapons: For the few ships that actually do use energy shields, perhaps, but for the ones that we know don't use shields (most of the fleet), big deal. As seen in Empire strikes back, a slow moving asteroid was able to break and completely destroy an ISD's particle shield: You're clearly unfamiliar with the timetable of the movie. The Imperial fleet was in the asteroid field searching for the Millennium Falcon for many hours, perhaps even days. We know this because many bounty hunters from across the galaxy were able to travel to the asteroid field. They couldn't all have arrived within a few minutes, unless hyperdrive is like 100 billion times faster than the speed of light. So that slow moving asteroid didn't "completely destroy an ISD's particle shield." It might not have even finished it off! The shields have been withstanding a "steady rain" of multi-megaton impacts for hours or days, according to the TESB novelization. That's nothing to sneeze at. Hell, the ISD's shields might have been overloaded earlier and it was taking these impacts on its armor. There were quite a few feats in some of the newer Star Wars source materials that indicate extremely tough armor on ISDs. Imagine what a MAC traveling at 40% the speed of light could do: I've noticed a trend on EckhartsLadder's versus videos: all the people that proclaim Halo's superiority over everything really don't know the technical aspects of their own lore. You just gave me about a thousand perfect examples with your comment, and this is the most serious one. You claim that MACs travel at 40% of the speed of light? Laughable. The super-MACs (equipped on Infinity and orbital defense platforms) fire rounds that travel at 4% (that's four, not forty) of the speed of light. It's still very fast, but anyone familiar with physics could tell you that the true energy yield of a MAC round would then be 100 times smaller than you think it would be. The ONLY ship in the entire UNSC Navy that's even equipped with these massively powerful MACS is the Infinity. The rest of the MACs have yields in the low kilotons (63 kilotons for the standard MACs). I love Star Wars much more than Halo, but this is no contest. The UNSC takes this. Eckarts even did a video on the UNSC vs the Death Star and the UNSC won easily: What is it with Halo fanboys and taking Eck's word as the bloody gospel? He is a man, and he's not even scientifically literate. He deals with tactics, not physics. He compares the capabilities of various sci-fi ships subjectively, not objectively. Yes, I saw that video you're talking about. I had been involved in many, many comment threads on that video about this very issue. People that think Halo would win are either super Halo fanboys or just not scientifically literate. They don't understand the forces and energies involved in many of Star Wars's exhibited feats. As a final remark, I would like to point out that in TESB, a Star Destroyer's point-defense guns were casually vaporizing asteroids. I myself calculated a lower limit for the energy involved (using a very conservative estimate for the size of the asteroid) and I arrived at 7 kilotons. (Some estimates easily range up to 60 kilotons or even higher.) 7 kilotons (30 million megajoules) of directed energy would be absolutely devastating to ANY UNSC ship. The actual turbolasers are far more powerful than the point-defense guns, and the dual heavy turbolasers are far more powerful still.
@@patrickspeegle9558 star destroyers dont have point defense guns, also those numbers are entirely unrealistic because if they were theyd vaporize most small capital ships even with shields up instantly (upwards to 300 meter long ships even) also the UNSC would just win due to being able to fire from such a long distance
Venators had that large number of point defence lasers as well, which would be really effective against the resistance fleet made up of mostly smaller ships.
Easy, it's the republic. Anakin is in it, he has a better connection with him and the clones. Even Obi Wan and other Jedi were there, so he'd likely choose them
I’m glad he brought back the Vs series, this is what actually brought me to his channel in the first place. I also have a few ideas for some match ups 1. First Order (as of TFA) vs. The Republic (during the clone wars) 2. Covenant (Halo) vs. The Republic (Clone Wars) 3. Rebel alliance (original trilogy) vs the UNSC (Halo) I have always wanted to know who would win in these match ups
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Drop a like for more fleet battles in 2021, and let me know any versus videos you would like to see!
big request...Eckhartsladder fixes the battle of Exegol, he can replace the superweapons and the location but the principle must remain the same...Palpatine has an army of superweapons or a single superweapon and a citizens fleet gathered by Lando or Poe ends up stopping it
Do great with galactic versus video keep it up
Reven vs vader
Separatists vs first order in all out war
One Xenomorph vs Princess Leia and Crew of the Tantive 4
UNSC vs Rebel Alliance in all out war.
Skilled pilots who grew from birth doing this vs a ragtag party who thought the raid boss would be easy.
Your not wrong.
@João Piza Youre'ren't*
@DU Lee você não está
So...(sigh).... Pros and Noobs?....
@@GenericProtagonist118 Can 16,000 Silvers beat 3,000 Grand Masters?
The Chad Clones vs the Virgin New Republic
The Chad Republic vs The Virgin Misfits
The chad Admiral Yularen vs the virgin resistance admirals.
@@toby1061 admiral holdo has nothing on Yularen 😉
I am incredibly biased against pretty much *anything* from Disney Canon, so I prefer the clones.
The Chad Prequel Trilogy vs the Virgin Sequel Trilogy.
I think the Resistance Fleet at Exegol could win but only if they have Horses.
I definitely agree if they just deployed horses and men on the top of each venator they would win no problem
They could win with finn and his 'just a feeling', no ships required.
The resistance fleet has Rey. She'll just use 2 lightsabers and destroy them all!
In fact all the horses were force sensitive clones. They released them from Palpatine's underground stable. That's why tilting the ships wouldn't have worked.
@@OxxotrOxxotro them being force sensitive clones is now legends. In Canon each and every horse was a death star, with special force and spacetime warping glasses so that the entire galaxy can watch with naked eyes when they are fired.
AKA....The Republic vs " Just people"
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahanahahahahahahaha 😂😂😂
LMFAO
For the republic!
You mean literally almost millions of ships many of which had weapons?
@@charliem6467 did you watch the video? 16,000 ships at the VERY most and that’s already being considerate, only 300 of which could go 1v1 with a venator, that being the various Mon Cal cruisers such as the MC95. Vs 5000 Venators that held 420 fighters each, had pilots and crew that were literally bred for war, and on top of that a couple hundred newer ships such as the ISD and Victory class, and possibly a couple mandator class super star destroyers.
Looking at galaxy fleet composition, only the bigger MC models and frigates were capable of carrying fighters, and most ships were just converted civilian freighters and older model ships not to be used in military action. Example: the Pelta class was present, despite already being outdated by the time of the clone wars and even in a 20 to 1 advantage against a Venator would not be able to win.
The battle of exygol was that battle where the 5 year old thinks of everything that's OP, gives it too the bad guys, and then magically the good guys win even when it makes no sense.
Lmfao. That is a dumb take.
Exactly lmfao
well unshielded, and no high ground, not to mention fancy super Lazer heavy guns don't shoot up, its kinda reasonable
But they have horses
@@charliem6467 how is that a dumb take it’s literally true there should have been no way he lost but no fucking Disney thought that’s palps should announce himself to everyone basically fucking himself
Republic Fleet all the way. Their ships are less than five years old and have crews of trained clones compared to decades old ships and random people.
??? Well not all of the resistance ships or ships in general would be that old per say tho it is a mishmash of ships from all over. The Republic ships by the time of the new trilogy would be 60 something years old in the timeline.
@@acendantoverlord5737 I think we are looking at each fleet when they had their debut in each movie, so technically the Republic would still have the advantage.
@@acendantoverlord5737 Technology advances slow in star wars, so I don't think there's much of a tech gap between the fleets
@@pixeltcat I definitely agree the Republic wins but it still doesn’t change the fact that from the resistance’s perspective their fighting 60 something year old ships and while “some” of the Resistance ships are “newer” and a little more advanced. Like Eckhart said MC90’s I think? Are probably a little superior to Venators and resistance star fighters also have shields while Republic Starfighters didn’t, to my knowledge tho I could be wrong? Their “Debut” doesn’t change the fact they are from two different time periods.
@@acendantoverlord5737 The Mon Cala ships are actually MC 95s, and Republic fighters did have shields, otherwise you make a valid point.
Disney literally threw a bunch of ships at us and said, “look at all the ships!” While they all just looked like dots on a canvas...
It is so sad to see “fans” treat such an amazing scene like this.
I wish they added more ships from all eras of Star Wars for the Galaxy Fleet
@@hell2gophone true
@@hell2gophone they likely didn’t have the assets and they were pressed for time
@@charliem6467 I'm sorry hitting ctrl c isn't amazing or creative
The Audience: Where did they come from? Who are they? How are they composed? Is the resistence dead or not?
Disney: *STOP ASKING QUESTIONS!*
Like how did Lando get a bunch of people to come but frickin Luke’s sister ( I know who she is I just forgot how to spell her name) not get a fleet in the last Jedi!?
Republic capital under attack* all reinforcements are contacted and take some time to get there.
Exogol: hey so there's this sith fleet. *everyone has joined the battle*
Me: that doesn't make sense or the logic is flawed
@@frog6375 The way Luke, Palpatine, Chewbacca Leia, Han and Ackbar were treated by the writers was almost criminal.
@@kyleabrezzi Lol. We got this POWERFUL fleet made up of cutting edge, world-ending Destroyers but... They can't go up.
Let's not forget the giant plot hole from last jedi where Leia calls for help and no one comes.
I am rooting for the Republic Fleet at Coruscant
Me too because I despise the sequel trilogy
same, also cause the republic is cooler
I kinda think it would be a draw/tie
im rooting for the republic because you are taking apart its roots which will kill it
@@battledroidcommander234 roger roger
Republic fleet: venators! Star fighters! Jedi! Some new star destroyers!
Galaxy fleet: Ships! More ships! Tons of ships! Too many ships!
So you are literally whining about how Galaxy fleet has more ships?
@@a_balloon the galaxy fleet will win
The galaxy fleet will wiln all the way
@@Alverymartin.banshee Not really, since "it's just people" and half of them probably never served an army
@@Alverymartin.banshee everybody gangsta until plot armor don't work on good guys
"Two of the largest fleets..."
**The Eternal Fleet has entered the chat**
[Zildrog laugh in the background]
*Galactic Alliance Fleet from the Battle of Yuzhantar has entered the chat*
*the Empire has entered the chat*
We don't have definite numbers for the Eternal Fleet. It should be noted though that the Star Forge Battle in KOTOR was also large according to secondary media, with more than 1000 ships on each side.
*The Galactic Alliance Fleet from the blockade of Corellia has entered the chat*
While I do think the Galaxy fleet is impressive, I think VERY few fleets could take on the full power of the republic’s fleet especially with highly trained clone pilots.
@CT-2307 but that the thing fighters many many if count let say min 1k vent and again there *more thousands most likely more but let say 1k vent alone.. 484 planes which include example 34 arc 170 192 v wings and 192 light inter so let say min of 200 planes just alone that is 200k planes.... give or take... now add real amount fighters not ground ones space 420 planes not included Clone Z-95 Headhunter
since not really amount but know alot.. so for now just put 420x1000 is 420k... planes... so image thousands
lol yah 16k total ships vs all of them but yes ik there bigships which bit more avd but still vents could hold iy own with planes so in the end Coruscant just out beats the fleet just because pure fighters and vents which all train clones mind you and fully battle war ready.. now them vs 10k star destroyers i would even know but if put my money then they would win also let say 10k vents vss 10k star destoyers is 4.2m figters haha which its my be an x ray but those still meant fight ships like vents so yah my mind go on them also unless includes other fleet enteral empire then unfair both sides.. just pure mass and avd tech
Mon Cals are more tanky than firepower output. And Venators needed several 800m crusiers to be effectivly matched for firepower. Not to mention the Ventaor being a litteral carrier.
Non designed for ship to ship. No you mean not optimised for ship to ship. They are allround cruisers in their role. They in legends at least has an absurdly good PD array.
@@OrDuneStudios if anything the one thing the venator was more for broad side fighting and seeing how the clone wars was basically inspired by ww1 frontal assault tactics I think the republic fleet would def had mighty balls of beskar to go face to face with no fear and tho idk if it’s canon but we did see it as a cutscene on the battle of kamino in battlefront 2 recent game the venator had a mini laser on the under belly of the ship ( palpaltine really like big microwave guns ) also In the battle seeing as how they had Finn going full Valhalla moment charging in with horse I’d the clones would also have the minds to board the enemy fleet like they did in the original cartoon adaptation of the clone wars as well also if u remember the battle scene of grievous leading his ships into a asteroid ring the clone ( anakins idea really) to use the at te walkers as gun platforms as well since those walkers have magnified feet and are air tight sealed so I would give to the clones to use everything they have aboard a single venator to fight to the last man FOR THE REPUBLIC!!
as i said in literally every reply venators are cargo carriers and clones are jango fett rip off
@@battledroidcommander234
They are mixture of battleship and a carrier/ ya they were cloned and train since birth to have kill in combat/ they were made to kill jedi
With the the exegol fleet being mostly civilians they would most likely flee or get tired of the fighting and go home
Resistance Officer: "All Deserters will be sho- wait where's the guy who shoots deserters?"
The guy who shoots deserters: "I'm not payed enough for this shit, dasvidanya!"
Anyone who's played Empire at War knows how this goes down. Generally a well coordinated attack of starfighters and capital-ships annihilates a disorganised mob of enemy star-ships. It's simply a matter of coordinating and allocating your various assets against the threats they can best deal with. Friendly fighters bog down enemy fighters and capitals, your own ships eliminate their escorts/corvettes (anti-star fighter ships), then your bombers and capitals move in to demolish what's left. Commanded by battle-hardened Jedi and clone officers the Republic fleet would fight like a competent EaW player against an easy level AI.
Ah EAW... *fun times,* if only you used more than one cpu core... I’m upgrading my cpu for you... UwU...jk for the uwu.
I play the game guys
As someone who’s played the EaW RaW (Republic at War) mod, I can safely say the way I win is just by dropping a super star destroyer on top of their heads and letting it soak the hits while a dozen assorted smaller SDs jump in and shoot everything that’s not them
I agree but counter argument: a group of nebulon B OP as fuck
Even with fewer ships, with enough discipline and communication the republic could win
I think the republic feet would win cause it's an organised military fleet and not a jumbled mess of random ships, also the crew are clones who have been trainer since childhood for their specific duty
The Amount Of Venators with this many star fighters. Sheesh!
venators are cargo carriers and clones are jango fett rip off
@@battledroidcommander234 Then why did the droid army lost?
plot armor
@@battledroidcommander234 roger roger
Do we need to compare this? The Republic fleet gets the edge.
Always of course
@@davidordaz5251 I meant the Venator is more of a carrier than a battleship and having more Starfighters is better than big ships. Real world example WWII US aircraft carriers.
It's fun! I really missed eck's vs series. It's why I first subbed to him
@@paulsteinhauser434 you have a point having more starfighters gives you more of a advantage
@@moosiemoose1337 I don't have a problem with that. I forgot 7-9 and wrote my own story....that is actually a story.
The Exogol battle was a total pathetic shitshow. All those ships and we got less action than we did with the much much smaller fleet at Endor. Was it a budget problem? I've seen better and longer fleet battles from episodes of Orville which had a fraction of the budget. Babylon 5 rendered it's cgi on toasters and had more engaging fights. Its not just Star Wars, nuTrek has been having the same problem.
When the Cartoon has better Space Battles than the high Budget movies... Stargate also Had quite some nice Space Battles, I Always Loved how Dynamic they looked
Also what about the xyston Star destroyers!? They’d been hyping up palpatines fleet for the whole movie, and in the final battle, the star destroyers literally sit there, shoot, and have the ties do all the work while the galaxy fleet rips them apart.
Pretty much. Frankly, all the battles in the Sequels were really underwhelming to me. Particularly when you watch Rogue One's space battle and could see some of the overall tactics being used.
The only sequel that you could was TLJ. But they were such DUMB tactics they hurt...
@Ruosong Gao they wanted to do a new ship model for the xyston but they ran out of time to develop a new custom model which takes quite a bit of time to complete
@@bencoomer2000 I'm pretty sure eck did a video on it but (a comparison) but both the republic and empire also made dumb tactical decisions. It's not just a sequel trilogy thing. But it also kinda shows that no matter how powerful a faction is, you always have incompetent leaders who dont always make good decisions. And although I kinda agree that the sequel trilogy didn't have overwhelming space battles. Compared to the ot and pt, the sq was able to do better graphics and cgi which was a plus compared to the more limited trilogies
There were 16 thousand ships "created" for the battle of exegol :D
There's not even one memorable though.
Well there was the pelta class
It was already in rebels
@Evan Scammell That's how CGI works
@Evan Scammell they were in a time crunch. also who tf cares
Just saw the battle of Scariff again. Man is it an amazing fight. The feels when Jynn and Cassian die. The moment Vader comes out being the most scary thing ever, just a couple of simple footsteps and after that a easy fight for Vader with a amazing score. I still see Rogue One as my favourite Star Wars movie, however I have more hope now that the Mandalorian was such a cool series. Also, I just started with the animated series of the Clone Wars and man have I been missing out!
The "I am one with the Force, and the Force is with me" scene turned any sense of the battle's grit into cheese.
The only thing that was scarier than Vader was the dark troopers with their score
Rogue One was brilliant. I know The Mandalorian is supposed to be it’s own story but I hope we see a massive space battle that gets screen time, maybe at the end of Season 3 we could see a massive battle between Mandalorian’s and the Imperial Remnant above Mandalore. Would be amazing to see.
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Well thought out and interestingly designed navy vs Discount Avengers Endgame Finale
Yeah, 5 venator-class star destroyers are well thought out and interestingly designed and hundreds of different ships, all unique in their own ways is a discount endgame finale.
@@Erolsaurus i think he refered the galaxy fleet as endgame discount finale
It's wild how formulaic that ending was. I'd be surprised if these are not written by some AI in some hidden backroom.
The Exegol fleet totally isn’t composed of ships designed for previous eras before hand or anything
@@Erolsaurus yeah well at least the venator was something new when it first went on screen and not hand me downs from actually good star wars
Hmmmmmm. Venator vs. freighters. Y-wings vs. MG-100s
The only damage the freighter can do is throw its supplies at the venator
*_This is where the fun begins..._*
Hello there
@@davidvasquez08 GENERAL KENOBI!
@@kelvinli9491 Obi-wan Kenobi-wan
@@kelvinli9491 you are a bold one...
@@DecarsOFD Your move...
I know the Republic wins, you only glossed over the star fighters which would actually be one of the deciding factors. I am going to go with a conservative 1500 Venator SDs there, and just count their fighter complement only not including the fighters of the reinforcement fleet ships of different classes. The Venators have a complement of 420 star fighters of various types. I'm not going to break down the raw numbers by type, but in total with just the 1500 Venators you have 630,000 star fighters. Say you only send out 10% of those as an attack force you still have 63,000 star fighters and those alone would wreak any of the smaller ships of the Galaxy fleet, then the fighters and capitol ships just mop up what's left . That is the one thing they never showed properly about the Venators , their fighter complement is deadly . Even in the 3 ship battle groups you see in Clone Wars that is 1260 star fighters .
Yea he apparently completely forgot that
630k most of which carried missiles and anti ship munitions.
No flak defence is going to stoo that.
Clones pilots playing the immigrant song while having a field day fighting civilians , man
venator is cargo carrier and clones are jango fett rip off
did you forget that the resistance probably has hundreds of anti-starfighter ships and their mon calamari cruisers would frick the venator star destroyers anyway
Add Jedi. It won’t matter the Resistance gets wiped
Well how does that work? The republic would have lost almost every battle depicted in the clone wars show if it wasn’t for anakin and the jedi. So take them out of the equation. And the republic is really exposed
finally i found someone who thinks republic would lose
@@charliem6467 > the republic is really exposed
what does that mean?
@@comradekenobi6908 they are at a serious disadvantage and lack serious strat.
@@charliem6467 Stop trying to defend the Resistance would clearly lose Jedi or no Jedi.
Literally the dozens of Lucrehulk battleships at the battle of courasant: "Am I A joke to you?"
he was only counting republic warships, if he included sepi warships the fight would of been over twice as fast
Lord Nagant
Yeah if he was counting Separatist ships alongside Republic ships, he’d have to include First a Order/Sith Eternal ships with the galaxy fleet to be fair
yes
@@SamSalsa411 So? They were unshielded imperial ones with large super lasers that they can't use yet. They would die in a storm of vulture droids.
@@wilberdebeer4696 you'd just see thousands of buzz droids sawing off the lasers
I think it's also safe to say that most of the exegol ships wouldn't have been fully crewed, whilst the republic ships would have had crews that at had been trained from birth
Who will win a highly trained military with the best personal Vs the people army that was quickly assembled and probably not having any tactical plan. If anything the sith eternal should’ve won but they had the worst ship ever made in Star Wars plus the planet prevents them from flying up?
I wanna say the coruscant fleet would win due to their high level of training and how it’s organized. Compared to the gung ho “galaxy fleet”
Highly trained military with robust command and control methods
Meanwhile with the G fleet: Lerrrrrrooooyoy Mmmmm Jenkins
@@OrDuneStudios the clones to would imploy using the walkers as gun platforms like they did in the cartoon adaptations so i would say the clones boarding the galaxy fleet but like a speed run on steroids
I think it depends on the circumstances. If you combine the basic scenarios of Exegol and Coruscant together (Resistance has surprise attack from above while Republic is defending a planet in-atmosphere/low orbit and both sides get very close very quickly), then most of the Republic's advantages go out the window. Training and discipline can't do you a whole lot of good if you're being shot at from 12 different directions and don't have cover. What the Republic would need to win this is space and time - the ability to break the Resistance fleet into chunks and deal with them one at a time, the ability to rest and resupply, the ability to use terrain (asteroids and the like) to their advantage, the ability to use their fighters at long distance to weaken the enemy, the ability to degrade the Resistance's morale over time until parts of it abandon the fight. In the Exegol/Coruscant scenario, they have none of that - unless the Resistance's morale breaks, the battle comes down to which side is able to score more hits, and that's probably the side with a 3-to-1 or better numbers advantage. (Especially since the Venator is not a substantially better ship than the Resistance's heavier ships - if they could barely scratch it this would be a cakewalk, but the Galaxy Fleet is full of ships that are at least as good as a CIS Munificent frigate.)
Think of it this way: A team of well-trained soldiers with guns can definitely take on a zombie horde if they have space, time, cover, high ground and room to move around. But if they soldiers start off in the same room as the zombies and have no way to escape, they are essentially doomed -- they physically cannot score kills fast enough to defeat the enemy before they take significant casualties themselves and lose most of their fighting ability.
So I guess you just dont like the Star destroyer in General huh, since its basically the same ship from the OT with a big gun at the bottom
@@michaelramon2411 well your forgetting the millions of star fighters the republic has. No matter how superior your fighter is, your gonna get beat by like a 20 to 1 star fighter duel
10/10 stomp for the Republic.
The capital of the galaxy would be guaranteed to possess Star Dreadnoughts.
Ten freighters wouldn’t have the slightest chance against a fully armed Recusant-class destroyer with a full complement, and it took a thousand Recusants to draw even with a single Mandator-II, let alone one that’s fully supported by entire formations of Venators and Imperators.
The Exegol Fleet would only have fighter complements on a fraction of their ships, and they’d be lucky to have more than a squadron. Let’s say 20%, or 3,200 to be exceedingly generous, and give them two squadrons (24) each, to be exceedingly generous again.
Less fighter-carriers than the Republic already, at 5,000 Imperators and Venators.
Imperators each have a full wing of six squadrons (72). Venators each have 32 squadrons of interceptors (384) and 3 squadrons of heavy fighters (36).
Exegol Fleet gets buried in Republic fighters, and whatever’s left has to deal with coordinated fire from FIVE THOUSAND Star Destroyer-class vessels with veteran crews. Backed up by several Star Dreadnoughts lobbing obscene long range volleys with impunity from behind one of the most formidable defensive screens in galactic history. It’s not going to happen.
No, the republic would fall.
The republic has like, 1 Imperator or something.
If they had a Mandator or any Star Dreadnoughts, then they would've shown it in Revenge of the Sith, but they DIDN'T. Therefore the Mandator is in another part of the galaxy altogether or just doesn't exist.
The first order had a Mandator IV, the Resistance killed it. They didn't even have full support of all ships in the galaxy then!
Plus the Resistance has a lot of MC cruisers and the support of some of the best pilots in the galaxy. They have the millenium falcon, a ship that has been proven to survive Imperial-IIs, so a much weaker ship like the Venator wouldn't suffice.
The Resistance have B wings that can destroy star destroyers.
Also, some resistance ships (e.g Corellian Corvette) are designed for anti-fighter combat.
5,000 ships? The resistance have like 1 billion at least, lol.
@@Erolsaurus dude that’s just plot armor if the millennium falcon actually took a couple turbo laser hits it would be done and imperial II’s don’t have anti fighter and small ship weapons anyway, also we don’t see nearly all the shi that were at coruscating in the movie there were allot of ships there that we only saw a little bit of, so just cuz they didn’t show a victory or tector it doesn’t mean those ships weren’t there, we only saw a very small snippet of the battle. did u not hear eck talk about how they don’t show everything on screen and how the republic most likely had a few victory’s, tectors, and imperators.
And the ventators also have 100s of advanced fighters and bombers which would prob shred through any of there ships, and around 400 fighters being held in a single venator uno,
and seriously you don’t actually think there was ‘1 billion’ ships at all, like seriously there was approximately 16000 ships and most of them civilian ships from a gud portion of the galaxy.
And the few hundred or so mc ships of varying quality and model were only a small amount of the mostly barely armed civilian ships, and with the thousands of venators, 100s of frigates, heavy and light cruisers, and a handful of victory’s, tectors and imperators, and not to mention the thousands upon thousands of republic fighters with all of them coordinating together and using tactics, strategy while all being under a command structure aswell would be much more organized than a around 16000 mostly barely armed civilian ships and the few hundred or so mc ships mostly all uncoordinated and just shooting the enemy randomly, I think the republic would win, and yes the exegol fleet would definitely dew a big chunk of damage but not enough before they get shredded.
@@Erolsaurus dude did u read his comment at all? The republic has a bit over a million fighters which can shred the entire exegol fleet I don’t think a ca-90 could have any chance of surfing the swarm of y wings and heavily shielded fighters and interceptors, also no offense but o think u should seriously learn about republic ships
>The capital of the galaxy would be guaranteed to possess Star Dreadnoughts.
We don't see any.
>The Exegol Fleet would only have fighter complements on a fraction of their ships
Not all of their starfighters need to be carried in, miniturisation of hyperdrive technology made hyperspace-capable snubfighters way more common by the time of the Battle Of Exegol.
The battle of exegol makes absolutely zero sense. Just like the entirety of the sequel trilogy.
Yup
star wars makes no sense, also you're not funny
@@Erolsaurus Idk man, don’t think he was trynna be funny,
@@craacksteeve1640 Everyone know that haters are pretentious babies.
@@TheRezro And the Sequels defenders (the few that are) even more because they know they're wrong but can't admit it.
Lets just say that there were up to 3000 venators in Coruscant, if each of those venators Carried 5 starfighters each then that would amount to 15,000 starfighters.
Obviously a single venator isn't gonna have just 5 starfighters each so the Coruscant fleet would win by a landslide
A Venator has a fighter compliment of 420 fighters and bombers. I'm not sure how many of each type.
Here is a comment from Ted-71tallica:
"I know the Republic wins, you only glossed over the star fighters which would actually be one of the deciding factors. I am going to go with a conservative 1500 Venator SDs there, and just count their fighter complement only not including the fighters of the reinforcement fleet ships of different classes. The Venators have a complement of 420 star fighters of various types. I'm not going to break down the raw numbers by type, but in total with just the 1500 Venators you have 630,000 star fighters. Say you only send out 10% of those as an attack force you still have 63,000 star fighters and those alone would wreak any of the smaller ships of the Galaxy fleet, then the fighters and capitol ships just mop up what's left . That is the one thing they never showed properly about the Venators , their fighter complement is deadly . Even in the 3 ship battle groups you see in Clone Wars that is 1260 star fighters."
Republic is weak but not *that* weak to lose with "people forces"
Hello there
General... Send the separatist leaders to the mustafar system.
@@Konke450 It will be done my lord
wdym "weak" its the galaxy's equivalent of USA
I would have loved it if the galaxy fleet included a few dozen Lucrehulk class Battleships!!! Ughhh that would be sooooooo cool!!!
Coruscant was the Planet Palpatine ruled and Exegol was the Planet Palpatine was resurrected
Ok
Ok so, I’m going to do some maths. Assuming that of the Republic Fleet over Coruscant around 3,000 of the 5,000 ships were Venator-Class Star Destroyers, and that they didn’t have their full carry capacity of 420 ships, but instead are at 75% strength, that works out to 945,000 star fighters. Of course this number could easily fluctuate from over 2.1 million if all the ships were Venators at 100% strength, to a mere 315,000 if the complement of the 3,000 Venators were at 25%, but these are still crazy large numbers. The number of 3,000 isn’t based on any calculations or lore, but instead made with the assumption that they made up the backbone of the Republic Fleet, and in all honesty, would probably have been higher. If there is any lore out there saying what % of the fleet Venators made up, please let me know, because I would like to ensure the greatest amount of accuracy I can get.
Man I really think that the separatist armies and navies are seriously underrated.
Agree
me too
Yes I agree, but for the republic
I want a star wars game where you sneak into a scrap yard and hijack a to be destroyed lukrehulk battleship and upgrade the ship as a mobile base for your fighters and larger ships
I'd like to see Resurgent vs Allegiance, although you've probably already done it
Resurgent wins :/
@CSO Class Supercarrier Halo The Fall Of Reach i agree, if we are working off of the numbers given (1000 turbolasers or whatever + kyber crystal tech)
@CSO Class Supercarrier Halo The Fall Of Reach I agree
Who would win, Maul's Shadow Collective at full strength or Grand Admiral Thrawn at full strength?
Edit: Thrawn at full strength vs the coruscant fleet
Thrawn easily. The Shadow Collective had like two Gozantis at most. Thrawn had a fleet of Star Destroyers.
It’s not even a contest. Thrawn being insanely smart plus the size of the fleet it would be a slaughter
how about mauls shadow collective vs jabba the huts empire
@@griffindenomme706 actually yeah that would be better
Thrawn, maybe.
He clearly outclassed or completed with the best of the Republic Generals, but then there are Jedi generals
The republic would have a bigger fleet with more fighters and better disciplined soldiers, but lesser technology (to a degree)
The Imperial fighters were utter , but the star destroyers and even corvettes can fight better than venators.
Disney and Marvel Comics should make Comics of how Lando gathered everyone in the Galaxy to join in the Battle on Exegol
How exactly did he get what looked like half of the ships in the core in what I will assume is a few days?
@@OutspokenSeeker lol they had like two days. You probably couldn't gather people from two space stations in that time
@@OutspokenSeeker the only problem is that all of episode 9 is meant to take place within 16 hours and lando getting all the ships within only a few hours, which is a bit unrealistic
@@warrengouldthorpe5091 right? Imagine having to convince all those people who weren’t exactly enthusiastic about fighting the first order to try and hand together in an unorganised pack to attack the biggest collection of manned and armed imperial destroyers seen in decades. It’s an impossible feat.
@@warrengouldthorpe5091 maybe Lando convince everyone to join the battle and overthrow Palpatine since he brought oppression since the clone wars ended and Empire rise to power
The comments just keep roasting the “Just People” fleet, it’s glorious!
A vs on the first day of 2021? Great year so far!!
It’s nice to see that they keep putting the ghost in the movies
(9:30) Count Eckhart: “Noble, but ineffective”
The Coruscant fleet makes sense because it is at the height of the Clone Wars and grew over years as a response to the conflict against the Separatists.
The fleet at Exegol is stupid because it is randomly assembled in a couple hours from groups who have previously shown no interest in opposing the First Order.
Classis Jar Jar Abrams thinking that just making something bigger automatically makes it better, even if it makes no sense.
It might have been forgivable if there was actually a fight between the 2 groups. But there was nothing. Just some star destroyers being star destroyed and a big lightning storm. Huge waste of time and CG
Love the use of Republic Commando game footage when discussing Karen Travis!
_Oh, this is going to be easy..._
This is where the fun begins.
I read or watched somewhere that the Republic had some 2,000 Venators at the battle, given a Venator carries 420 Star Fighters piloted by clones then in theory they would have over 840,000 Star Fighters. Given that these were piloted by experienced and battle hardened clones, then this would give the definite advantage to the Republic Fleet with numbers and experience.
This is why I feel like around 4 million clones would have not been enough, that would mean around 2/3 of the entire clone army would have been crewing ships at fighters at corusant
The Exegol battle was Star Wars doing its own area 51 raid.
You didn't talk about morale and training, the Clones have a massive advantage in this regard as they would fight and die for much longer than the Galaxy fleet. Especially bas the Galaxy fleet doesn't have the threat of Palpatine in this match up to instill a sense of do or die.
I think the galaxy would’ve not forget him tho seeing as many grew old would have the fear to push them but these are the goddamn clones bruh FOR THE MF REPUBLIC
The galaxy fleet would retreat once enough of there ships get destroyed
Reminds me of the battle above the ark where the more well trained elite crews were able to beat the larger brute fleet
then its an even fight all ships fire at will, burn their mongrel hinds
Oh boy, versus videos ... I can NEVER get enough of those. Awesome work Eck.
Been watching this channel for years now, prolly 4 maybe 5, still click as soon as I can when you come out with a new video. Love your content! Keep being awesome and making amazing content
The better title for this is: Dark Souls Boss vs Scrub Newbies
But according to Rian Johnson, each of those small civilian ships can just hyperspace ram the large republic ships and easily disable them with the collateral damage. 16 thousand civilian hyperspace missiles vs maybe 8 thousand republic capital ships, resistance fleet would easily win through attrition. If this sounds boring, yes, this is precisely why rian single handedly ruined the star wars universe with that one idiotic scene.
Doesnt work the reasonhyperjumping into a star kills you is gravity the same concept behind interdictors then you are stuck at normal speeds inside a star killing you ramming doesnt work unless the object is in hyperspace in whoch case the act of hyperspace collisoon is disasterous but rian johnson misportrayed it as the ships were not in hyperspace
Hyperspace ramming only works if you have enough mass to not vaporize on impact and do no damage. Which a ship any considerable amount smaller than the Raddus, with its 2x ISD mass, two GIGANTIC hyperdrives, and a perfect distance, can't do.
So there is something we normal people called physic
I'm watching every second cause I've been waiting for you bringing back this beautiful stuff again!!!!😁😁
I love how Karen Traviss is a minimalist in how many clones in the galaxy and then she just starts pulling thousands of ship out her ass.
Spaarti clones and hidden KDY contacts. It's heavily explored in the books.
I once did a vs between the Exegol's Resistance fleet vs The New Republic Fleet (counting ships like the MC90s and captured ISDs)
And I concluded it would have been a horrible massacre for the Resistance
6:51 Wait so the CIS snatches grievous instead of the chancellor? That’s nice
As I remember from reading Bloodline, the best military technology was being kept back by individual systems. That many systems refused to join the New Republic, fearing they might become another empire and that some system defense fleets were as good or better than the New Republic fleet. That said, they didn't have the numbers individually and the NRF was largely kept parked so as not to threaten any of the independent systems.
These unorganized, inexperienced and untrained civilians would be massacred by GAR
Yeah but u gotta remember that inside the republic capital ships there are lots of small clone ships
8:33 "Looks like, Palt kept his remaining warmachime down the back of a sofow for a rainy day"
I've enjoyed rewatching the versus videos this channel has posted over the years. Quite the nostalgia trip for me
This video has made me so nostalgic for these videos.
Bruh Space Trafalgar cannot be compared to Space Bullshit!
anyone remember how in the last Jedi they say that hyperspace tracking was "new" but in rogue one, a rebel corvette jumped to hyperspace and a star destroyer followed suit towards Tatooine, perfectly behind the corvette at the starting of a new hope.
I am so glad that these are back!
I love how you mentioned the Republic Commando books when talking about the Battle of Coruscant. That is my favorite Star Wars book series! Yes, the whole hidden military is a massive plot point in the later books for anyone who doesn't know.
I also agree that the Republic would win. Even if there are less, the clones are seasoned fighting machines who have trained since birth, while the Exegol fleet is just civvies in some small ships with some severely undergunned big star ships. And, there is that mini Death Star beam we see a Venator use for 3 seconds, that could one shot an MC-95, and just evaporate everything smaller.
A good versus episode would be the Fleet of Particular Justice versus the First order fleet in TLJ
The Covenant will wipe those heretics from the face of the Galaxy!
Marauder-Class Corvette vs Raider-Class Corvette
Kom'rk-Class Fighter vs CF9 Crossfire Starfighter
The Republic would most likely win since they have lots of experience with dealing with large fleets, and also since the clones were made for war
The Resistance would lose, because they're "Just People."
Yeah I'm sure hundreds of capital ships including Mon Calamari ships, Nebulon Bs and Corellian Corvettes would fail against 5 venator-class star destroyers that are optimised for anti-starfighter weaponry.
@@Erolsaurus you mean more than 1000 venator star destroyer out of prob 1000 other starships controlled by the best officers of the repubkic with a full war of experience and future imperial officer as well as maybe a millions of fighters and boarding ships since these have huge carrying capacity. Also not forget the clones that work there raised from birth to be warriors.
Against
A bunch of people that use slow ass bombers...
@@jumperwilli7770 Let's not forget that one is just a crowd of people with just a few ships actually designed for war and no coordination or strategy that could help them againts a full war navy with some of the greatest soldiers specifically created and trained for a galaxy wide conflict and having a wide variety of strategies designed by their best tacticians, not counting the jedi generals that are also fighting that can attack the great ships from inside
I like to know how they got all the Galaxy fleet through to Exegol.
They had the signal from Luke's x-wing
@@davidkippy101 The Resistances CR90 corvette following the map seemed barely fit but somehow thousands of ships of similar or drastically bigger size have absolutely no issue even though the came all at once
@@masonkiefer1222 they have enough firepower to destroy the red space tumor
Straying from the EU storyline was a huge mistake
The main thing I loved about the resistance fleet in episode nine was how it reminded me of Mass Effect three. I’m referring to the giant fleet going to earth 🌎 to fight the reapers lol 😆
I'm not sure that's a compliment to Star Wars. The thing you most like about itis that it's like something good? Harsh.
@@cioplasmmajic8327 dude that was an AWESOME scene in ME3. 😎
@@cioplasmmajic8327 and sure ep 9 was flawed but it wasn’t 100 % bad.
@@cioplasmmajic8327 I still prefer Lucas’s script though
@@Steel-101hmmmmmm Lucas's script.... Only thing I didn't like about it was Darth Talon being Darth Mauls's apprentice.....
Interesting speculative battle
30 minutes of screen time showing the gathering of the Galaxy fleet would have been great
According to The Last Jedi almost all of the resistance fleet would of ran out of fuel long before getting to Exogal. 😂
Always enjoy your technical analysis! You're the best. Thanks for 2020 and looking forward to more of your expose in 2021! Have an awesome year!
I ABSOLUTELY loved and enjoyed watching this AWESOME Versus video!!!!
REALLY one of my MOST DEFINITE favorites that I have seen SO fraking FAR!!!!
Happy New Year, EckhartsLadder!!! Looking forward to your INCREDIBLE content right here in 2021!!!
Imagine all fleets and factions ever coming together against another galaxy. Imagine such a fleet. What do you think that fleet would be called?
The Ultra Mega AlphaChad Galactic Fleet
@@ImTheReverse yeah that sounds about right.
The Uber Mega Giga Alpha Chad Galactic Union Fleet
@@OR56 yEA-
@@Ganonsmork I know. It's amazing isn't it.
Loving the older style content
The video I didn't know I needed, but I did
Imagine waiting 25+ years to create an entire new fleet at Exogol that will enslave the Galaxy and deciding to tell the entire known universe about it one day before it's ready to launch....
Most people here say the Coruscant fleet would win simply because they don't like the Rise of Skywalker, and provide bad reasons for this fleet winning.
The Coruscant fleet has a tactical advantage. The Exegol fleet has a technological advantage (I mean Venators aren't really durable, a MC cruiser could probably take a venators down just by itself without suffering too much damage), a huge number advantage, and if we take this into account (which these videos usually don't), a "pilot" advantage. I mean, clones are bred to be warriors, to be the bests, but they are never depicted as really good pilots. They usually don't survive for long when they fly in TCW and Revenge of the Sith. The Exegol fleet, on the other hand, counts war veterans like Wedge and Lando, Poe who is supposed to be the best pilot of his time, smuggler and bounty hunters that probably fly in less conventional and more effective ways than the clones. Let's face it: the Exegol fleet, after being basically destroyed by Palpatine, still managed to destroy the Sith Eternal fleet. This was helped by the really obvious weak points and stupid design choices but the Sith Eternal are probably among the best ships ever produced in the Star Wars Galaxy, regarding weaponry and overall technology.
Also, a theory about coordination: many ships at Exegol are the same model. It's done to reuse the same assets many times, but in universe it could be explained by most of these ships coming frome the same fleets. If that's true, each individual fleet that compose the Exegol fleet probably has its own admiral, chain of command and stuff. What I mean is that it's impossible to coordinate the entire fleet but the fleet itself is probably made of many fleets that have their own level of coordination.
I'm not saying the Coruscant defense fleet would lose, I'm saying the answer wouldn't be that obvious and the battle wouldn't be that easy.
Also legends has examples of fleet of smugglers and criminals taking on a fleet of Vong capital ships that are more complicated to take down compared to the Republic ships even unorganised the numbers are still in the Resistance's favour. I would say 7 or 8 times the Resistance fleet would win out of 10.
I would say no, in reality going up against 10,000 xytons which can't move really, no shields / can be blown up with a few shot at their big canon causing ship to blow up/ ( it because if bad writing and plot that they won) if xyton had shields and could move very freely, they have a way better command structure.
The reason no is taking the resistance seriously is because it's mostly do to plot that win battles not out of actually tactics or skill Like the clones or even rebels. I mean tlj pretty raddus should been destroyed by a swarm of tie fighters, but didnt.
If were talking about combat skills and even in terms of flying the clones beat them hands down/ po while a great pilot isnt going ( they aren't stormtrooper or first order trooper/ they were made to kill jedi)
No matter good a ship is or advance it is, if its sitting in a dock without any defenses it going to get blown up. In 16 hours lando is some how able to convince everyone in galaxy to launch a attsck in 16 hours when in tlj when Leia called out for help when first order wasn't no where near that size no one came.
These movie have to many problem that I can't take half crap seriously.
I love the venator no matter what, hands down probably my FAVORITE ships in all of star wars
Same
Just what i needed! Thank you!
The Republic Fleet has some inobvious but, I think, decisive advantages here. One is that it has a unified command structure with a clear chain of command. This is crucial in a large battle where a large number of assets have to be employed in a coordinated way. The lack of an established command structure or clear chain of command may turn the Galaxy Fleet's numbers into a liability here. Even basic communication would be a nightmare with thousands of people all talking at once and no one in charge. The Republic fleet also has a clear fleet structure and doctrine. They have a relatively small number of ship types with each one having a clear role in the fleet. Their ships are designed to work with each other and fit into a coherent doctrine. They can swap crews and pilots around freely between ships of the same type. If an ARC=170 crews gets their fighter shot out from underneath them, you can just stick then in another ARC-170 and they'll be good to go. The maintenance crews will be familiar with the ship and able to do the necessary work quickly and efficiently. Parts. munitions and even the crews themselves are standardized and can be swapped freely between ships of the same type. This logistical advantage could well be *the* decisive factor. I don't know much this transfers to Star wars spaceships but modern high performance military aircraft are complicated and maintenance intensive. Things quickly start breaking under the stress of combat. Fuel and munitions are used up at a rapid rate. Crews tire and need to be rotated out and replaced. It requires an enormous, coordinated logistical and maintenance effort just to keep ships in the fight. Ships in the Galaxy Fleet would start dropping out quickly as systems start breaking down under the stress with no compatible spare parts available since there is such a variety of different ships and so many of them have various ad hoc modifications.
You should do a battle comparison of the Operation Return vs Endor Fleet.
Yuuzhan Vong vs eternal empire.
So you didnt take the eternal fleet at all :v
This was a different type of vid but i like it
The vids that span generations are always interesting
Thnx for the fun
JJ: I got an Idea, let's put all the ships in.
The whole thing is unreal even for Star Wars.
Didn't we learn why having a single control ship for your entire fleet a bad idea during the Clone Wars? Anyway, I'm never better on a fleet that is unable to fly straight up without ATC holding their hand.
I see the postwar UNSC vs The Rebel Alliance at the time of Endor in all out war to be an interesting matchup.
considering post war unsc has a super carrier that can fire multiple times over and can vaporize 5 km long ships like theyre nothing, i think the UNSC wins pretty easily with that ship and its hundreds of other 1-2 km long ships while the rebel alliance only had a few dozen capital ships
@@snekkie117 You think the Rebels can win against a galaxy-spanning Empire with a few dozen capital ships? That’s like bringing down the entirety of the modern US Army, Navy, Air Force, and Marine Corps with a single 9mm pistol. I’m all for an underdog story, but that’s simply not possible.
There are many engagements throughout the Galactic Civil War that had dozens of Rebel capital ships present. You think that the Rebels have a 100% survival rate against a superior force? According to your numbers, the loss of the Profundity and its escort at Scarif would have virtually sealed the Rebellion’s fate. Let’s also not forget the fact that before the war even started, individual Rebel cells centered around one planet or system had a few capital ships. So...you think that a grand total of 5-10 cells came together and fought off the entire Empire? I’m sorry but you, good sir, appear to have a terrible grasp of the Rebels’ size and scope.
The UNSC has exactly ONE supercarrier. It can’t singlehandedly carry the entire UEG Navy on its back.
“Supercarrier that can fire multiple times over.” What does that have to do with anything? Virtually every weapon ever can fire multiple times over. Big deal. If you’re referring specifically to the MAC guns, I counter with this: the Infinity is a whale. It won’t be pulling off 360° noscopes against every Rebel target in range.
“...vaporize 5km ships like they’re nothing.” When did Infinity ever vaporize a 5km ship? The most powerful weapons on the Infinity are the MAC guns, and they just punch right through without vaporizing anything. That’s the biggest drawback of having projectile weapons instead of directed-energy weapons (with the possible exception of the massive recoil). The UNSC had like a grand total of a few thousand ships, and that’s being generous, considering the absolute massacre that was the Covenant War. Most of them would not be the ginormous battleships that you daydream about.
The Rebel Alliance on the other hand has an indeterminate number of warships (certainly more than the dozens you claim), some of which are small and some of which are large, but they all use energy weapons and possess shielding technology, which are two MAJOR advantages when discussing a war with the UNSC, whose ships are notoriously weak against any form of energy weapon and lack shielding of any kind (with the rare exception like Infinity). The Rebels also make extensive use of fighters, and although the X-wings and Y-wings are far smaller than their UNSC counterparts, that’s actually a good thing: they’re smaller targets, lighter, and faster. They are ALSO equipped with shielding and energy weapons.
Edit: I edited this comment so much because my phone kept glitching out and cropping my reply
@@patrickspeegle9558 Ok let’s look at hard numbers here.
In Legends, the Rebellion had a few hundred capital ships at its height during the Galactic Civil War. However, capital ships in the source book not only included MC80 classes, but smaller and less powerful capital ships the rebellion had such as the Lower MC classes, and things like the liberator carrier. This is still quite a lot, but let’s look at UNSC numbers
2000 estimated capital ships Post-War as of 2559 before the Guardian event.
But this is not the main problem the Rebellion has. Star Wars combat differs so much from Halo Naval combat because
A. Star Wars doesn’t follow the rules of physics
B. All Star Wars space battles take place within visual range. This is because most Turbolasers were manned by human gunners, and the fact that Turbolasers only had an effective range of within visual range. Outside of that engagement range, Turbolasers and Ion Cannons are known to dissipate harmlessly in space.
Now take the UNSC’s 2000 capital ships, all of which have at least a singular MAC gun and several of which have NOVA Nukes, which are powerful enough to destroy a planet. (See the book Halo: Envoy for Grey team destroying an entire Elite world with a single NOVA nuke)
MAC guns alone would absolutely rip a rebellion fleet to shreds, as the range at which they engage is beyond visual range. They can engage from an infinite distance if they so choose, because MAC cannons fire 300 Ton tungsten uranium depleted rounds, that do not lose momentum because they follow the laws of physics. The rebellion fleet would not even know they are being engaged in a battle before their fleet starts to be destroyed.
On the topic of energy shielding and laser weapons, most UNSC ships also had energy shielding, but their shielding protected them against projectiles AND energy directed weapons. In Star Wars, looking at the source books, most ships only had strong Ray shields which only deflected Energy based weapons. As seen in Empire strikes back, a slow moving asteroid was able to break and completely destroy an ISD’s particle shield. Imagine what a MAC traveling at 40% the speed of light could do.
I love Star Wars much more than Halo, but this is no contest. The UNSC takes this. Eckarts even did a video on the UNSC vs the Death Star and the UNSC won easily.
@Nicholas Wong In Legends, the Rebellion had a few hundred capital ships at its height during the Galactic Civil War: Where do you get this? I looked and looked and looked, but I couldn't find any single reference to the size of the Rebel navy in Legends to dispute your claim. However, from the canon Star Wars wiki page for the Alliance Fleet: "After the Battle of Yavin, the Rebellion took advantage of its momentum and launched the Mid Rim Offensive, which included thousands of warships and hundreds of battle groups." Furthermore, from the canon page for Mid Rim Offensive: "It [the Mid Rim Offensive] was one of the largest operations the Alliance had ever launched against the Empire, with thousands of ships and hundreds of battle groups participating." (I included the second quote to disprove your inevitable claim that the first quote included Imperial ship counts as well as Rebel ship counts.) We don't know the distribution of ships, but we do know the following: at the Battle of Endor alone, there were "at least 8" Home One-type Star Cruisers and "at least 5" Liberty-type Star Cruisers, as well as at least 14 of those smaller capital ships you mentioned, and a total of at least 15 MC-type Star Cruisers. The Rebel Fleet is evidently far larger than you give it credit for.
2000 estimated capital ships Post-War as of 2559 before the Guardian event: That's gotta be a joke. I've seen lots of estimates that say 2000-3000 ships BEFORE the war. Literally nobody honestly believes that the UNSC (which had a mere 900 planets, most of which were very lightly populated) possessed more than 5,000 ships before the war. Considering how much of a bloody massacre the Covenant War was, it would be generous to assume that they even have 1,000 afterwards. 500-700 would be my bet, and my bet would be that most of them are fairly small too.
Star Wars doesn't follow the rules of physics: It seems to me that not following the rules of physics should be an advantage, because the enemy can't anticipate what you'll do.
All Star Wars space battles take place within visual range: The ones that we see in the movies, sure. But let's be honest: the reason for that is because nobody would be interested if they were just shooting off into the distance. There were extreme long-range engagements in the Clone Wars TV show (usually 10-30 kilometers). Still visual range for the most part, but extremely long visual range. A couple years ago, I estimated that the TLJ incident occurred at a range of around 65-80 km, IIRC. In the novels (which are canon), engagements frequently take place at far longer ranges. I think most Star Wars fanboys usually agree that typical effective ranges is typically a few hundred to a few thousand kilometers with various weapons. (In the Battle of Endor, we saw explosions dotting the surface of ships ranging from one end of the battle zone to another, which is a distance of about 200 kilometers IIRC.)
Now take the UNSC's 2000 capital ships: Again, no.
All of which have at least a single MAC gun: the MAC gun's usefulness is hugely overstated. It can't be aimed independently of its owning ship, which means the entire ship must maneuver to fire. It also places limits on how many ships a single UNSC ship can engage with at once, while the Rebel ships could engage as many ships as they have turrets.
Several of which have NOVA nukes: Now I *know* you're not being serious. The NOVA bomb is known to have been produced in low numbers, and as far as I know, it was only detonated once or twice, one of which was accidental. If many UNSC ships carry it, they would definitely use it more.
MAC guns alone would absolutely rip a Rebellion fleet to shreds: Excuse me if I doubt your claim. MAC guns have extremely long recharge times (unless they vastly decrease the muzzle velocity, which makes them massively less dangerous), and at long ranges, targets can either shoot down the MAC rounds or avoid them. At a range of 1,000 kilometers, it would take 33 seconds for a standard ship-mounted MAC gun to cross the distance. Any Star Wars ship (except perhaps the Executor) could *certainly* avoid the attacks or shoot them down at such range. Obviously, this mostly negates the range advantage, because they CAN'T engage at infinite distance. Besides, the standard MAC gun has an *ideal* yield of about 63 kilotons, and Star Wars frequently exhibits firepower far in excess of that. (The existence of the Death Star should more or less indicate the state of things; the Death Star blasts apart an entire planet at over 1% of the speed of light.)
fire 300 ton tungsten uranium depleted rounds: actually it's 600 tons
do not lose momentum because they follow the laws of physics: No shit.
The rebellion fleet would not even know they are being engaged in a battle before their fleet starts to be destroyed: There's a technology sci-fi ships tend to have that I don't believe you're familiar with. This technology is called a sensor system. Perhaps you've heard of it? They can detect ships and objects in space at great ranges, so...your idea of a UNSC victory before the Rebels even know they're being attacked is somewhat misguided, to say the least.
On the topic of energy shielding and laser weapons, most UNSC ships also had energy shielding: You're just making stuff up now. Energy shields for the UNSC are a very recent development, only made possible because they reverse-engineered Kig-Yar personal shields. From Halopedia.org: "Humans have used energy shield technology for a relatively brief amount of time...Near the end of the Human-Covenant War, ONI scientists successfully reverse-engineered the technology used in Kig-yar point defense gauntlets, leading to the technology's incorporation into the Mark V MJOLNIR Powered Assault Armor and all later iterations of the series...One of the UNSC's most recent breakthroughs in energy shield development came with the creation of the YSS-1000 Sabre orbital fighter, which is the first human spacecraft known to use energy shields...Some warships also received shields post-war, with at least the UNSC Infinity, its embarked frigates, and the Autumn-class heavy cruiser possessing energy shielding." Notice that the article said "*some*", not "most." Other than the Autumn-class heavy cruisers, Infinity, and its Strident-class frigate complement, literally no UNSC capital ship EVER has been confirmed to possess energy shields.
but their shielding protected them against projectiles AND energy directed weapons: For the few ships that actually do use energy shields, perhaps, but for the ones that we know don't use shields (most of the fleet), big deal.
As seen in Empire strikes back, a slow moving asteroid was able to break and completely destroy an ISD's particle shield: You're clearly unfamiliar with the timetable of the movie. The Imperial fleet was in the asteroid field searching for the Millennium Falcon for many hours, perhaps even days. We know this because many bounty hunters from across the galaxy were able to travel to the asteroid field. They couldn't all have arrived within a few minutes, unless hyperdrive is like 100 billion times faster than the speed of light. So that slow moving asteroid didn't "completely destroy an ISD's particle shield." It might not have even finished it off! The shields have been withstanding a "steady rain" of multi-megaton impacts for hours or days, according to the TESB novelization. That's nothing to sneeze at. Hell, the ISD's shields might have been overloaded earlier and it was taking these impacts on its armor. There were quite a few feats in some of the newer Star Wars source materials that indicate extremely tough armor on ISDs.
Imagine what a MAC traveling at 40% the speed of light could do: I've noticed a trend on EckhartsLadder's versus videos: all the people that proclaim Halo's superiority over everything really don't know the technical aspects of their own lore. You just gave me about a thousand perfect examples with your comment, and this is the most serious one. You claim that MACs travel at 40% of the speed of light? Laughable. The super-MACs (equipped on Infinity and orbital defense platforms) fire rounds that travel at 4% (that's four, not forty) of the speed of light. It's still very fast, but anyone familiar with physics could tell you that the true energy yield of a MAC round would then be 100 times smaller than you think it would be. The ONLY ship in the entire UNSC Navy that's even equipped with these massively powerful MACS is the Infinity. The rest of the MACs have yields in the low kilotons (63 kilotons for the standard MACs).
I love Star Wars much more than Halo, but this is no contest. The UNSC takes this. Eckarts even did a video on the UNSC vs the Death Star and the UNSC won easily: What is it with Halo fanboys and taking Eck's word as the bloody gospel? He is a man, and he's not even scientifically literate. He deals with tactics, not physics. He compares the capabilities of various sci-fi ships subjectively, not objectively. Yes, I saw that video you're talking about. I had been involved in many, many comment threads on that video about this very issue. People that think Halo would win are either super Halo fanboys or just not scientifically literate. They don't understand the forces and energies involved in many of Star Wars's exhibited feats.
As a final remark, I would like to point out that in TESB, a Star Destroyer's point-defense guns were casually vaporizing asteroids. I myself calculated a lower limit for the energy involved (using a very conservative estimate for the size of the asteroid) and I arrived at 7 kilotons. (Some estimates easily range up to 60 kilotons or even higher.) 7 kilotons (30 million megajoules) of directed energy would be absolutely devastating to ANY UNSC ship. The actual turbolasers are far more powerful than the point-defense guns, and the dual heavy turbolasers are far more powerful still.
@@patrickspeegle9558 star destroyers dont have point defense guns, also those numbers are entirely unrealistic because if they were theyd vaporize most small capital ships even with shields up instantly (upwards to 300 meter long ships even) also the UNSC would just win due to being able to fire from such a long distance
Great video man!
Venators had that large number of point defence lasers as well, which would be really effective against the resistance fleet made up of mostly smaller ships.
Question who’s side is r2 on he’s in both battles.
Easy, it's the republic. Anakin is in it, he has a better connection with him and the clones. Even Obi Wan and other Jedi were there, so he'd likely choose them
The Coruscant fleet has more ships than what the number of clones to operate them are.
IVE BEEN LOOKING FORWARD TO THIS
I’m glad he brought back the Vs series, this is what actually brought me to his channel in the first place. I also have a few ideas for some match ups
1. First Order (as of TFA) vs. The Republic (during the clone wars)
2. Covenant (Halo) vs. The Republic (Clone Wars)
3. Rebel alliance (original trilogy) vs the UNSC (Halo)
I have always wanted to know who would win in these match ups