I never seem to get tired of this audio! Have watched it a thousand times, each time, I always walk away with something new! Wish internet was available 50 years ago! 😅👍
I used to be against audiobooks, but now I found myself loving them. You spend less time reading and more time thinking. You also get the benefit of not staring down at a page for hours.all you have to do is listen
@@lyucyselkieoizys8411 well, you have to pause to think when reading while audio is less attentive, allowing you to think in between the words. both are good, but in a fast paced world audio can be handy to hear and learn.
I agree. I can't find reasonable time to finish entire books. I would need to sit down and read the text. This takes time away from other activities. When I listen to an audiobook, I'm able to finish books in a matter of days vs weeks. Already I finished 4 books in the month of September and I haven't been able to finish one for a few years now. Not because I'm unable to, but because of the sheer commitment needed. Though there are times I question just how much I actually retain vs traditional literature, for entertainment and for increasing my knowledge of the subject, i think the audiobook is just fine.
@@beayondsense WTF this has to be in every library that exists and online for free in PDFs everywhere... where were you looking? also check out project Gutenberg you big dummy
The world needs Plato now more than ever. People almost expect their government to be corrupt. They've forgotten that government can be a force for good and leaders can be role models. I wish we'd stop the endless debates over the size of our government and focus more on the size of our government's and society's character.
Hi Franklin. Very well put! Great comments on your part. Plato's greatness should be observed and applied even in today's world as you say. There should be an International Plato Day in the world.
The problem there is we dont agree what good character is. So our two thoughts of what a government with optimal character might differ so much that we are still in the same boat trying to navigate the waters of endless debate. Instead why dont we reduce the governments size and allow for all areas to decide how they would like their regions to run?
Keep dreaming. Show me a body of governance that wasn't/isn't corrupt throughout human history and I'll show you the world. This the problem with idealists back then as it is now, they forget reality doesn't work like that. Real life represent! Given the opportunity we're one collapse away from total anarchy. Humans be crazy like that.
Quite possible. I think Tolkien said something to the effect that he didnt intentionally, but it might have been a subconscious influence. He was a linguist but more so Germania and Celtic than classical Greek/ Latin
Thematic Parts - not books! - According to Demond Lee translation, Penguin Edition: Part II: Preliminaries 1:47:37 Part III: Education: The First Stage 2:11:35 Part IV: Guardians and Auxiliaries 3:43:29 Part V: Justice in State and Individual 4:19:22
4:10:27 an interesting thought, Music leads to corruption of morals though thought of as harmless. 4:11:08 That amusement of music, finds its way into anarchy and tyranny. 4:11:39 4:13:09 basic hospitality and honor 4:15:14 those who are often around us this day. 4:18:24 concerning the churches allowing the religious to handle religious matters for the learned though they be learned know not that concerning religion for they have not excellence in such areas. 4:20:14 the beginnings of the virtues 4:21:19 wisdom and knowledge, the difference. 4:23:55 Courage. The wariors of the republic are the ones who are to exemplify it, it doesn’t matter if the citizens have it or not. The warriors are raised and trained from birth throughout their life to obtain such courage. 4:27:45 temperance. Controlling of pleasures and desires “i will be ruled by nothing”. Plato suggests there is both good and bad in mankind but the good is the smaller and the bad is the larger. If the good is over the evil, you are showing temperance. 4:30:07 Complex desires and pains are shown to be in children, women, and servants, and in the free men “so called”of the numerous lower class. 4:30:22 simple and moderate desires that follow reason and are under the guidance of mind and true opinion are to be found only in a few, and those the best born and best educated. 4:30:36 the two are in conflict and the bad desires of the many are held down by the good desires of the few. 4:32:18 3 of 4 discovered now its time for the 4th justice. Which plato says they do not know but they should look for it in their country. “Here there is no path and the wood is dark and perplexing still we must push on.” 4:33:42 start of next book.
Great highlights. Its amazing how many people skip over his denunciation of music/art. We are too amused to even see the negative effects its had on humanity
@@jameseldridge3445 or some of us have, and have tried to stop future generations from listening to that “new music” that “rock and roll” that “techno” that “pop” that “rap” that “hip-hop”. While I disagree that the style in which the music is played is bad, it is the messages within the songs, that has lead us here. Every mention of promoting immortality has lead us here musically, not the keeping of the good but the promoting the bad.
2:18:49 something to keep in mind is that, just because something completely good, creates something good, does not mean it shall remain good, unless that greater good forces it’s creation to remain good. What I’m saying my friends is that, God (being both completely good and completely powerful) chooses not to force His will in all things. Why? My friends, would you not consider a man who dictates everything you can and cannot do a tyrant? Indeed. Then how much greater the tyrant if he were to control everything in your life down to the color of your shoe laces, the sheets on your bed, it’s position in the room and the very food you eat and what time to eat it. Not only would it arouse the anger and the frustration of the individual, but also the individual’s protest. And that is just the individual. Would you then agree that if a tyrant did this on a universal scale, he would be seen as the greatest evil in existence? I would. Than it stands to reason that free choice is not an evil in and of itself, but a good thing. Would you not agree? I would agree. So then, if it is a good thing in and of itself, then we recognize God must be good even though evil exists. For hHe has allowed us the freedom of choice. This is how God can be both all powerful and all good. The author/creator of all things but not the enforcer of all their choices.
I did not ask to be created thus, if god was real, i still owe him nothing. i would complain bitterly and wish to be free of god. My life does not belong to anyone that is not me.
5:20:15 on matters of women. 5:29:32 women should have equal schooling as men. 5:30:40 two types of learning in regards to specific things 5:31:19 what a woman excels at and the superiority of men. Women are generally inferior to men. 5:31:49 many women do many things superior to many men. 5:31:55 a woman has the same pursuits as a man but in all of them a woman is inferior to a man. 5:35:38 funny way its phrased out of context, but at the time it was probably with greater flare. 5:35:48 women do the same job, just less work and easier loads and burdens compared to the men. 5:37:09 guardians share their wives for sex and share the burden of raising the children. No one should know who their own child is and no child should know who their own parent is. 5:38:08 is such a lifestyle possible? Plato basically says ‘lets skip if its possible for now and just assume it is since I’m not feeling too good about this’. 5:38:51 5:39:00 assuming its possible let’s talk about how it will work. 5:39:31 lets talk about the advantages. 5:39:54 Having already picked the men for their positions as leaders of various things such as religious groups, political parties, cities, towns, districts, states, country etc. and warriors/domestic police (rulers and auxiliaries as mentioned in the previous check point), women who will match them will now be picked for them as their partners. They must be similar in nature. The two will do everything together. Eat, sleep, bath, work, etc. then eventually they naturally want to have sex, and seeing as they have no one else to do it with, will do it with each other. 5:40:49 those lacking sexual restraint are doing wrong. Sexual promiscuity is made forbidden aka against the law by those in power. Marriage is to be sacred. 5:41:00 The beginning of the hard decision. “Let the wisdom of the almighty God our heavenly father and our master Jesus Christ guide those in charge. Amen” - Me Benefit of marriage. Breeding the best of animals so that you get the most out of them and the best may prosper and allow others to greater prosper from these things. 5:42:24 the difficult task set before rulers. A considerable dose of Falsehoods and deceit necessary of the rulers. 5:43:15 Breed the best humans, and keep the lesser humans from breeding as much as possible. Dispose/do not raise children that are inferior, raise only the children that are superior. If we are to have the best republic possible. It is to be a secret only the elite will know and they must be cautious how it is handled or else there will be a rebellion from among the people. The rulers are to keep an eye on the population and determine if more people are less people are needed to be born. 5:44:11 the rulers have to take into account wars and diseases and other factors that will likely kill off their population. 5:44:29 invent a gambling pairing system that they can rig to pair the worst together and the best together. So that when the worst are paired together they will assume it is bad luck that they got stuck with their partner. The men who produce admiral traits shall be not only allowed, but encouraged to sleep with whom they want to and have as many kids as possible. 5:45:01 certain men and women (because both shall inherit this position) shall take the babies and give them to care takers. The care takers will take the babies from lesser marriages and babies of good marriages that develop problems and kill/hide them from the public. The mothers shall be given a child but will not know if it is theirs or not. The mothers wont have to worry about tending to their baby as much, that’s what the nurses will do. 5:46:07 warriors are to have an easy time when having children. 5:46:16 when should people have sex and start making babies from it? Women 20 years old. 20 to 40. Men 25 years old. 25 to 55. Both those are the prime. Anyone older or younger is said to have done an unrighteous thing. 5:47:40 if anyone marries outside of this prescribed range they are thought of as having done wrong. Once past that age they can marry whoever they want that’s not in that special range (unless given permission by the rulers) as long as it isn’t that man’s daughter or his granddaughter. Or his mother or his mother’s mother. Women are prohibited from marrying their sons or son’s son or father or father’s father. So on and so forth for both in both directions. If an offspring comes forth from such forbidden unions, kill the baby. 5:48:46 but how will they know who is their son or daughter. Likewise, how will they know who their father or mother is? Basically anyone born within a certain time range will be considered a son or daughter and those having given birth the parents will be considered at that time. Extend that logic to grandparents/children respectively. 5:49:14 Everyone born at that time will consider everyone else born at that time a brother or sister. Because they are “brother and sister” (not likely blood related but its a possibility) they can’t sleep with each other unless an oracle allows it and its randomly generated that way by lots (lottery). 5:50:20 end of book 5 part 1
The extent he speaks of censorship, I genuinely excepted him to have been being sarcastic. How can you expect these guardians to be properly knowledgeable without a well rounded education, of the good and bad?
Compare the US to China. One has total freedom while the other not so much. Two totally different cultures due to this fact and two totally different outcomes. Now compare kids who are made "knowledgable" about guns, drugs, and sex to kids who don't even know what the concept those things are. Freedom is an illusion that's why they always advocated for boundaries especially for minds that are easily impressionable and manipulated
I’ll have to double check, but from what I understood, the censorship was to keep them focused on what was important and profitable. Censoring all that was unnecessary. Does a child in middle school need know every atrocity being committed? I think you would agree with me they do not. As it would not be conducive to their learning. Rather, the news of Every Atrocity should be made known to the historians around the world for they are the keepers of the news. The news of every atrocity should be sifted through by the keepers of the news to see which ones in their wisdom should be declared in the best interests of the people to be made known to them. The adults then will sift through what was spoken and weigh if it should be brought before the children and for what reasons. You would also agree with me, that every atrocity’s information should be recorded and available (be it library or online) so that the learned may add to their learning and the curious may find it should they so wish. Yet you would also agree with me, that a local baker only has so much time in the day to bake bread and prepare for the customers, tend to them with excellence, prepare for the next day, spend time with their loved ones, then sleep to repeat it again. If that baker devotes the time that is necessary to dwell on the matters of every atrocity committed on any and every person on the earth, their performance would surely falter. If not their performance, some other aspect of their life. So then friend, if we conclude this on only one matter, all atrocities, what can we conclude then on the matter of all things? I believe you would agree with me, that all things cannot be observed by those within such a time consuming role. So then, what shall we do? Shall we force the weight of the world upon every man, or shall we censor it for his own well being. Not so much censorship that a man can never know mind you, but that it shall not be hoisted upon his shoulders. So then, let the sifters sift for the betterment of the people but also let the information be available should they be curious enough to grow. On matters that are dangerous to a child, would we not put them out of reach unless they were deemed capable and mature enough to wield such things? So then, on that which would be dangerous we can agree that the mature, wise, self controlled and or trained should handle such things. On certain things a higher level of maturity and so forth are necessary, and to other things a lessor amount of such things. To be honest, I don’t remember what the censorship was about or how it was being handled. I just wanted to sound wise with such sayings. Though the wisdom I gave is generally applicable to censorship i do not recall if it was the wisdom necessary to assist you in your dilemma.
@@stevelucky7579with censorship comes choices of what to keep and what to throw away. How can a citizen be well learned when throughout all of their life, they ignore certain facts and think that humankind is perfect ? Plus, you forget that Satan spawns are not innocent and will do the worst thing to others just for the sake of it. And historians are making a choice of what informations to keep. They will have their points of view just like we all do.
Silly Socrates oppose the idea of Justice is the interest of the strong, but his description of the just state show that his justice is the interest of the strongest
This is why the Republic works only as a metaphor for the soul. Because such a government proves Thrasymachus right. Because like all states the legitimacy of the Philosopher Kings is rooted in the Philosopher Kings and Auxiliaries possessing a monopoly on the legitimate use of violence. And like all Governments their actions would be based on what the Philosopher Kings and the Auxiliaries believe is in the best interest of the Republic and as the Government of the Republic they are the Republic. Thus justice is reduced to the interest of the strong.
It gets more interesting after the first part, which sounds like a guy bragging about how clever he is without really being that clever. The rest is interesting, but more scary than wise. I can definitely see where the fascists were strongly inspired by this work, all this stuff about censorship and state control of the shaping of their youth into proper, virtuous soldiers, the suborning of the individual to the needs of the State, etc, the strict and detailed control of art and literature to make sure it all contributes to those same ends, etc. More disturbing than brilliant to me.
It's even more interesting to see in the context of Plato's other works. This essential comes to be a thought experiment that even the Narrator doesn't seem to like the conclusion of.
@Shawn Bishop Become an Orthodox Christian, Philosophy was used in a Christian way and shows how the early greek philosophers had errors that Christ perfected. Join this discord if you want to ask questions about Christian philosophy etc. God Bless You! discord.gg/orthodoxchristian
@@Luke-ig1td But as for these enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them, bring them here and slaughter them before me. - Luke 19:27 And they entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and with all their soul, but that whoever would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, should be put to death, whether young or old, man or woman -2 Chronicles 15:12-13 Yeah. It totally says that. That's only two of many many many examples
@@Luke-ig1td you can use the "out of context" nonsense all you want. Your book demands you kill me. So stop trying to justify such a sick and monstrous book, and if you do, you might want to actually read it
I'm so glad they got Plato to record this himself
Lol, that's how I view Bob Neufeld aswell.
Ikr? He sound remarkably good to be over a thousand years old
And he speaks English
Jokes
It is truly a blessing
I never seem to get tired of this audio! Have watched it a thousand times, each time, I always walk away with something new!
Wish internet was available 50 years ago! 😅👍
I used to be against audiobooks, but now I found myself loving them. You spend less time reading and more time thinking. You also get the benefit of not staring down at a page for hours.all you have to do is listen
reading and thinking go together... How one can read, and DON'T THINK?
@@lyucyselkieoizys8411 well, you have to pause to think when reading while audio is less attentive, allowing you to think in between the words.
both are good, but in a fast paced world audio can be handy to hear and learn.
I agree. I can't find reasonable time to finish entire books. I would need to sit down and read the text. This takes time away from other activities. When I listen to an audiobook, I'm able to finish books in a matter of days vs weeks. Already I finished 4 books in the month of September and I haven't been able to finish one for a few years now. Not because I'm unable to, but because of the sheer commitment needed. Though there are times I question just how much I actually retain vs traditional literature, for entertainment and for increasing my knowledge of the subject, i think the audiobook is just fine.
🤫
"Against" as in "Dislike?"
Nice to finally read this, seven years after I claimed to read it, and bullshitted my way through a class discussion, in University…
Haha!
And you were following a time-honoured academic tradition ... !
yOUtube and audiobooks is amazing...I always wanted to read this book and I have it here. Feeling accomplished...thanks for sharing.
Me too! Been looking for this since 2013 :-D
I think you're confused about the definition of the word "read"
@@beayondsense WTF this has to be in every library that exists and online for free in PDFs everywhere... where were you looking?
also check out project Gutenberg you big dummy
Technology is cool
Also, they have like 3 different versions in barnes and noble, as of a month ago. I'm using this to compare to the allan bloom translation
The world needs Plato now more than ever. People almost expect their government to be corrupt. They've forgotten that government can be a force for good and leaders can be role models. I wish we'd stop the endless debates over the size of our government and focus more on the size of our government's and society's character.
Hi Franklin. Very well put! Great comments on your part. Plato's greatness should be observed and applied even in today's world as you say. There should be an International Plato Day in the world.
That statement reflects even more on current day issues, we need this and it should be applied.
The problem there is we dont agree what good character is. So our two thoughts of what a government with optimal character might differ so much that we are still in the same boat trying to navigate the waters of endless debate. Instead why dont we reduce the governments size and allow for all areas to decide how they would like their regions to run?
Well, I think it's important to debate wether a government is too big for its people to carry. It's too big.🤷
Keep dreaming. Show me a body of governance that wasn't/isn't corrupt throughout human history and I'll show you the world. This the problem with idealists back then as it is now, they forget reality doesn't work like that. Real life represent! Given the opportunity we're one collapse away from total anarchy. Humans be crazy like that.
Oh. My. God. I read this in University, I love that I can go through it this way now!
we need wisdom more now than ever
First time checking out Plato. Let’s get it
Such a beautiful book I love it. It is a shame the irony of Socrates' death; poisoned by the government for his beliefs.
Yes, you’re so right.
Very good very useful until last night at 3 AM when my laptop turned on by itself for no reason and began playing this at max volume
Platos spirit did it because he thought you should listen some more
_Are u practicing your Plato lessons_
*Duolingo wants to know your location*
1:18:32 Book II
2:31:15 Book III
3:57:53 Book IV
5:13:29 Book V
Thanks man
Thank you fam. This will make it easier
thanks!
You champ
Thank you most epic of doods.
Thanks for uploading such as classic for learning and enjoyment for the public.
Thanks for sharing this! Truly invaluable💖
3:05:09 part three of book 2 ends and book three begins.
Amazing verse
Thanks for providing this.
Wait.. was this written like last week because it's pretty up-to-date right. It must be true that mankind is under a spell.
At about 1:25:00. Why do I get the feeling that the allegory of the Ring presented here may have inspired Mr Tolkien?
I had the same thought.
Quite possible. I think Tolkien said something to the effect that he didnt intentionally, but it might have been a subconscious influence. He was a linguist but more so Germania and Celtic than classical Greek/ Latin
I thought the ring in Tolkien’s work was suppose to be a metaphor for aesthetic desires and animalistic drives, I never actually read it though.
Yes, Tolkien drew direct inspiration from the allegory of the ring.
Crud if this was made in modern times it would be called “Plato’s Comment Section”
I recognize the voice actor from Notes from the Underground.
Very enjoyable after several decades from my first and physical reading.
Damn I love this channel!
Good read
18:14 Justice is useful when money is useless
Nice narration
Pls do more
1:25:00 Frodo finds the Ring on his own. Did Tolkien get some inspiration from this?
Yes, he drew direct inspiration from this allegory.
Thematic Parts - not books! - According to Demond Lee translation, Penguin Edition:
Part II: Preliminaries 1:47:37
Part III: Education: The First Stage 2:11:35
Part IV: Guardians and Auxiliaries 3:43:29
Part V: Justice in State and Individual 4:19:22
Thanks
4:10:27 an interesting thought, Music leads to corruption of morals though thought of as harmless. 4:11:08
That amusement of music, finds its way into anarchy and tyranny. 4:11:39
4:13:09 basic hospitality and honor
4:15:14 those who are often around us this day.
4:18:24 concerning the churches allowing the religious to handle religious matters for the learned though they be learned know not that concerning religion for they have not excellence in such areas.
4:20:14 the beginnings of the virtues
4:21:19 wisdom and knowledge, the difference.
4:23:55 Courage. The wariors of the republic are the ones who are to exemplify it, it doesn’t matter if the citizens have it or not. The warriors are raised and trained from birth throughout their life to obtain such courage.
4:27:45 temperance. Controlling of pleasures and desires “i will be ruled by nothing”. Plato suggests there is both good and bad in mankind but the good is the smaller and the bad is the larger. If the good is over the evil, you are showing temperance.
4:30:07 Complex desires and pains are shown to be in children, women, and servants, and in the free men “so called”of the numerous lower class.
4:30:22 simple and moderate desires that follow reason and are under the guidance of mind and true opinion are to be found only in a few, and those the best born and best educated.
4:30:36 the two are in conflict and the bad desires of the many are held down by the good desires of the few.
4:32:18 3 of 4 discovered now its time for the 4th justice. Which plato says they do not know but they should look for it in their country. “Here there is no path and the wood is dark and perplexing still we must push on.”
4:33:42 start of next book.
Great highlights. Its amazing how many people skip over his denunciation of music/art. We are too amused to even see the negative effects its had on humanity
@@jameseldridge3445 or some of us have, and have tried to stop future generations from listening to that “new music” that “rock and roll” that “techno” that “pop” that “rap” that “hip-hop”. While I disagree that the style in which the music is played is bad, it is the messages within the songs, that has lead us here. Every mention of promoting immortality has lead us here musically, not the keeping of the good but the promoting the bad.
Music is used by organisations such as the Tavistock Institute to control people's minds and attitudes (they created The Beatles, for example).
@murrayfrost part 2 ends in 2:31:10
2:18:49 something to keep in mind is that, just because something completely good, creates something good, does not mean it shall remain good, unless that greater good forces it’s creation to remain good.
What I’m saying my friends is that,
God (being both completely good and completely powerful) chooses not to force His will in all things.
Why?
My friends, would you not consider a man who dictates everything you can and cannot do a tyrant?
Indeed.
Then how much greater the tyrant if he were to control everything in your life down to the color of your shoe laces, the sheets on your bed, it’s position in the room and the very food you eat and what time to eat it. Not only would it arouse the anger and the frustration of the individual, but also the individual’s protest. And that is just the individual.
Would you then agree that if a tyrant did this on a universal scale, he would be seen as the greatest evil in existence?
I would.
Than it stands to reason that free choice is not an evil in and of itself, but a good thing. Would you not agree?
I would agree.
So then, if it is a good thing in and of itself, then we recognize God must be good even though evil exists. For hHe has allowed us the freedom of choice. This is how God can be both all powerful and all good. The author/creator of all things but not the enforcer of all their choices.
I did not ask to be created thus, if god was real, i still owe him nothing. i would complain bitterly and wish to be free of god. My life does not belong to anyone that is not me.
@@ludlowaloysius why are you here?
4:33:41 checkpoint
@@ludlowaloysius It's cute that you think that. You'll discover otherwise.
You want a man of justice in all relationships relating to trust
Any downvoters care to justify themselves?
🤣They can not
They know only what others teach them closed eyes all of their life’s this seems logical.
Yes. The narrator is a freaking joke... the fake trans Atlantic theatre voice is just ridiculously vaudevillian
They are not lovers of wisdom, therefore unfit to rule
Honestly? probably trying to increase the likelihood of another video making it to the top search result.
and the subtitles?
I cant find book 3. Please help!
Book 2 Part one 1:18:32
Book 2 Part two 1:59:11
Book 3 3:05:08
I think today's rulers were convinced by Thrasymachus's argument. They define justice as "just us"
5:20:15 on matters of women.
5:29:32 women should have equal schooling as men.
5:30:40 two types of learning in regards to specific things
5:31:19 what a woman excels at and the superiority of men. Women are generally inferior to men.
5:31:49 many women do many things superior to many men.
5:31:55 a woman has the same pursuits as a man but in all of them a woman is inferior to a man.
5:35:38 funny way its phrased out of context, but at the time it was probably with greater flare.
5:35:48 women do the same job, just less work and easier loads and burdens compared to the men.
5:37:09 guardians share their wives for sex and share the burden of raising the children. No one should know who their own child is and no child should know who their own parent is.
5:38:08 is such a lifestyle possible? Plato basically says ‘lets skip if its possible for now and just assume it is since I’m not feeling too good about this’. 5:38:51
5:39:00 assuming its possible let’s talk about how it will work.
5:39:31 lets talk about the advantages.
5:39:54 Having already picked the men for their positions as leaders of various things such as religious groups, political parties, cities, towns, districts, states, country etc. and warriors/domestic police (rulers and auxiliaries as mentioned in the previous check point), women who will match them will now be picked for them as their partners. They must be similar in nature. The two will do everything together. Eat, sleep, bath, work, etc. then eventually they naturally want to have sex, and seeing as they have no one else to do it with, will do it with each other.
5:40:49 those lacking sexual restraint are doing wrong. Sexual promiscuity is made forbidden aka against the law by those in power. Marriage is to be sacred.
5:41:00 The beginning of the hard decision. “Let the wisdom of the almighty God our heavenly father and our master Jesus Christ guide those in charge. Amen” - Me
Benefit of marriage. Breeding the best of animals so that you get the most out of them and the best may prosper and allow others to greater prosper from these things.
5:42:24 the difficult task set before rulers. A considerable dose of Falsehoods and deceit necessary of the rulers.
5:43:15 Breed the best humans, and keep the lesser humans from breeding as much as possible. Dispose/do not raise children that are inferior, raise only the children that are superior.
If we are to have the best republic possible. It is to be a secret only the elite will know and they must be cautious how it is handled or else there will be a rebellion from among the people. The rulers are to keep an eye on the population and determine if more people are less people are needed to be born.
5:44:11 the rulers have to take into account wars and diseases and other factors that will likely kill off their population.
5:44:29 invent a gambling pairing system that they can rig to pair the worst together and the best together. So that when the worst are paired together they will assume it is bad luck that they got stuck with their partner. The men who produce admiral traits shall be not only allowed, but encouraged to sleep with whom they want to and have as many kids as possible.
5:45:01 certain men and women (because both shall inherit this position) shall take the babies and give them to care takers. The care takers will take the babies from lesser marriages and babies of good marriages that develop problems and kill/hide them from the public. The mothers shall be given a child but will not know if it is theirs or not. The mothers wont have to worry about tending to their baby as much, that’s what the nurses will do.
5:46:07 warriors are to have an easy time when having children.
5:46:16 when should people have sex and start making babies from it?
Women 20 years old. 20 to 40.
Men 25 years old. 25 to 55.
Both those are the prime.
Anyone older or younger is said to have done an unrighteous thing.
5:47:40 if anyone marries outside of this prescribed range they are thought of as having done wrong. Once past that age they can marry whoever they want that’s not in that special range (unless given permission by the rulers) as long as it isn’t that man’s daughter or his granddaughter. Or his mother or his mother’s mother. Women are prohibited from marrying their sons or son’s son or father or father’s father. So on and so forth for both in both directions. If an offspring comes forth from such forbidden unions, kill the baby.
5:48:46 but how will they know who is their son or daughter. Likewise, how will they know who their father or mother is? Basically anyone born within a certain time range will be considered a son or daughter and those having given birth the parents will be considered at that time. Extend that logic to grandparents/children respectively.
5:49:14 Everyone born at that time will consider everyone else born at that time a brother or sister. Because they are “brother and sister” (not likely blood related but its a possibility) they can’t sleep with each other unless an oracle allows it and its randomly generated that way by lots (lottery).
5:50:20 end of book 5 part 1
Great highlights man
22:18 so i wont forget where i stopped.
Cant unsee Fortnite and film Immortals elements mixed in this picture.I'm 54 yrs old...
5:13:20 personal bookmark
Im a random commenter hear to remind you of your book mark :)
3:57:50 Book 4 Part 1
Book 2: 1:18:40
Book 3 2:31:07
The extent he speaks of censorship, I genuinely excepted him to have been being sarcastic. How can you expect these guardians to be properly knowledgeable without a well rounded education, of the good and bad?
Compare the US to China. One has total freedom while the other not so much. Two totally different cultures due to this fact and two totally different outcomes. Now compare kids who are made "knowledgable" about guns, drugs, and sex to kids who don't even know what the concept those things are. Freedom is an illusion that's why they always advocated for boundaries especially for minds that are easily impressionable and manipulated
I’ll have to double check, but from what I understood, the censorship was to keep them focused on what was important and profitable.
Censoring all that was unnecessary.
Does a child in middle school need know every atrocity being committed?
I think you would agree with me they do not. As it would not be conducive to their learning. Rather, the news of Every Atrocity should be made known to the historians around the world for they are the keepers of the news. The news of every atrocity should be sifted through by the keepers of the news to see which ones in their wisdom should be declared in the best interests of the people to be made known to them. The adults then will sift through what was spoken and weigh if it should be brought before the children and for what reasons.
You would also agree with me, that every atrocity’s information should be recorded and available (be it library or online) so that the learned may add to their learning and the curious may find it should they so wish.
Yet you would also agree with me, that a local baker only has so much time in the day to bake bread and prepare for the customers, tend to them with excellence, prepare for the next day, spend time with their loved ones, then sleep to repeat it again.
If that baker devotes the time that is necessary to dwell on the matters of every atrocity committed on any and every person on the earth, their performance would surely falter. If not their performance, some other aspect of their life.
So then friend, if we conclude this on only one matter, all atrocities, what can we conclude then on the matter of all things?
I believe you would agree with me, that all things cannot be observed by those within such a time consuming role. So then, what shall we do?
Shall we force the weight of the world upon every man, or shall we censor it for his own well being. Not so much censorship that a man can never know mind you, but that it shall not be hoisted upon his shoulders.
So then, let the sifters sift for the betterment of the people but also let the information be available should they be curious enough to grow.
On matters that are dangerous to a child, would we not put them out of reach unless they were deemed capable and mature enough to wield such things?
So then, on that which would be dangerous we can agree that the mature, wise, self controlled and or trained should handle such things. On certain things a higher level of maturity and so forth are necessary, and to other things a lessor amount of such things.
To be honest, I don’t remember what the censorship was about or how it was being handled. I just wanted to sound wise with such sayings. Though the wisdom I gave is generally applicable to censorship i do not recall if it was the wisdom necessary to assist you in your dilemma.
@@stevelucky7579with censorship comes choices of what to keep and what to throw away.
How can a citizen be well learned when throughout all of their life, they ignore certain facts and think that humankind is perfect ?
Plus, you forget that Satan spawns are not innocent and will do the worst thing to others just for the sake of it.
And historians are making a choice of what informations to keep. They will have their points of view just like we all do.
3:00:00 bookmark
1:59:27 just a place holder
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Personal Bookmark - @45:50
Where can I read an online copy of this?
Project gutenberg
25:17 Thrasymachus' intervention
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Part 4 anyone?
44:04 end of part one
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Book 2 part 2
Bookmark - 3:02:35
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@@willlenardson3093glad u finish it
3:54:20 bookmark
book 5?
Silly Socrates oppose the idea of Justice is the interest of the strong, but his description of the just state show that his justice is the interest of the strongest
This is why the Republic works only as a metaphor for the soul. Because such a government proves Thrasymachus right. Because like all states the legitimacy of the Philosopher Kings is rooted in the Philosopher Kings and Auxiliaries possessing a monopoly on the legitimate use of violence. And like all Governments their actions would be based on what the Philosopher Kings and the Auxiliaries believe is in the best interest of the Republic and as the Government of the Republic they are the Republic. Thus justice is reduced to the interest of the strong.
BOOK 5 PART 2: 5:50:25
Book 3 - 2:31:00
It gets more interesting after the first part, which sounds like a guy bragging about how clever he is without really being that clever. The rest is interesting, but more scary than wise. I can definitely see where the fascists were strongly inspired by this work, all this stuff about censorship and state control of the shaping of their youth into proper, virtuous soldiers, the suborning of the individual to the needs of the State, etc, the strict and detailed control of art and literature to make sure it all contributes to those same ends, etc. More disturbing than brilliant to me.
It's even more interesting to see in the context of Plato's other works. This essential comes to be a thought experiment that even the Narrator doesn't seem to like the conclusion of.
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Is that narrated by Ciarán Hinds?
I was wondering the same thing! Must be
Book I part 2 44:21
44:10 book 1 part 2 begins
Did you continue?
th-cam.com/video/0uHLZR3lLRo/w-d-xo.htmlsi=oVwpUfvCbLxv2Pif
Up is the best audio version by far
2:59:00 nederst side 57
2:54:01 66
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audiobooks are ok
1:13:45
Really poor audio book, the Republic read by the jre is much much better.
Bad accent.don't like it
The bible is the one book of life I follow but this worldly teaching is to hard for me to diejest now
Well. I certainly hope you don't follow most of the bibles commandments. Be a shame if you had to kill me for being a non-believer
@@amphilochusofmallus5070 Bible never says that lol. Dont take random verses out of context
@Shawn Bishop Become an Orthodox Christian, Philosophy was used in a Christian way and shows how the early greek philosophers had errors that Christ perfected. Join this discord if you want to ask questions about Christian philosophy etc. God Bless You! discord.gg/orthodoxchristian
@@Luke-ig1td But as for these enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them, bring them here and slaughter them before me. - Luke 19:27
And they entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and with all their soul, but that whoever would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, should be put to death, whether young or old, man or woman
-2 Chronicles 15:12-13
Yeah. It totally says that. That's only two of many many many examples
@@Luke-ig1td you can use the "out of context" nonsense all you want. Your book demands you kill me. So stop trying to justify such a sick and monstrous book, and if you do, you might want to actually read it
Thanks
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I am a friendly commenter hear to remind you of your book mark.
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Justice is an art of theft!
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