Karma's Rework: The FIRST Visual Gameplay Update | League of Legends
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 19 พ.ค. 2022
- For this episode of the Rework Retrospective series, I wanted to go over Karma's because (unless I'm mistaken), it was Riot's first attempt at a full visual gameplay update, and a precursor to all major reworks going forward, despite not many people knowing about it.
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#LoL #Karma #Rework - เกม
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I desperately tried contacting you before this video, to prevent you from making these mistakes. Overal, it's been a great video, as always, but since Karma is my area of expertise, I spotted a few unfortunate missunderstandings (brace yourself):
4:24 - Old Karma did NOT damage the enemies she tethered to, only those who tripped over it.
7:28 - W allowed you to attach to enemies and stay in range of your Q-RE-Q burst. W in general was an important tool to place your shortranged abilities in more optimal positions.
8:25 - A specialist isn't always "better". There is power (and fun) in flexibility. Riot eventually realized as much and is currently making more of them, which is frustrating to see after kneecapping Karma's solo capabilities on so many occasions.
10:00 - "She used to be the only enchanter with no hard CC in her kit". And wouldn't it have been interesting to see them build on that concept, rather than watering her down to do what others already do (better)?
11:05 - Respectfully, I think you are praising mantra W too much. The root only exceeds Morgana's Q after maxing both W and R, but most games end before that. It is also VERY delayed (~0.5s casting, 2.0s tether). The heal is incredibly problematic, since it scales with effective HP. This opens the door to her tank cheese, while making it scale poorly with mage stats. It is very selfish for a support, and for mages can be understood as a lost trade, by giving up your important RQ damage for a self-heal. It's not a well designed ability.
11:32 - Mantra offered more interesting decision making in the past and is currently too dependent on your *build*, rather than the current situation.
13:25 - People simultaneously complained her mantra was too weak, but needed to be kept in check. That was the point. If you mindlessly used it, it was underwhelming. Her kit forced you to constantly be on the watch for and create scenarios in which you could maximize both the offensive and defensive capabilities of your spells. At 5:28 you can see Karma flash in and use RE on herself, instead of saving Ahri with it. That was a clear misplay.
13:35 - Incorrect. The issue with duality mantras (namely RE - shieldbomb) is her PASSIVE, not her base abilities. RiotNeuroCat confirmed that. It is entirely feasible to give her another passive, change mantra CD and re-introduce duality mantras, without touching Q, W & E.
14:15 - "First times." often suck, and Karma wasn't made under the best of circumstances. No dedicated teams, no experience, leaks, a rushed release, etc. So, two things can be true at the same time: 1) Reworks are an essential and positive force for LoL's game health. 2) Karma's rework sucked.
14:25 - With all due respect, but I don't think Riot succeeded in retaining Karma's core experience. However, duality WAS preserved in her rework, and didn't get thrown out the window for another 2 years. This was also when they removed Karma's signature spell (shieldbomb), which she had for 5 years by then.
Be assured that I have a huge amount of respect for your work, which is why I wanted to help out. This video is impressive, since I know that you can't have experienced half of these things first hand, so why I wanted to give you a helping hand, offer my insights as a Karma enthusiast for 9 years. It's a shame we couldn't clear up these few issues before the release of this video. The Karma community already suffers from a lot of misunderstandings regarding her past and current kit.
I appreciate the corrections! Sorry I missed your messages T_T
@@VarsVerum I realize you must get a ton of messages, so it's very understandable. Yet I want to restate my offer; if you ever need insight or infos on Karma, I will do anything to provide it.
THIS! Thank you.
I loved original Karma and there was barely anything as satisfying as landing a Mantra'd Q on botlane as support, hitting both your ADC and enemy support/ADC at the same time, completely turning around the situation. This kind of feeling is something I do tend to miss in today's League-matches.
Old Karma had a lot more depth compared to her rework-version. As stated correctly already she just has become another "burst"-mage. In my eyes she completely lost her gameplay-identity as empowering her abilities with a Mantra doesn't alter her abilities anymore, it just makes them more powerful (more damage, longer CC, more shield).
The Karma-rework is one of the worst reworks Riot has done so far and I hope they realize that at some point and revert the changes with some updates to the current League-standard. Pretty sure that'll never happen with the current course Riot's taking.
..what the hell is this Bel'Veth champion and it's 3459347 dashes again..
The amount of effort and critique people are expressing in this gaming community seriously reminds me of the peer-revieeing process of scientific publications and I love it :D
Mate, I want to take a second to appreciate the way you corrected him without being offensive.
I honestly feel Karma's first design was perfect, just at the wrong time. Coordination with allies just wasn't what it is now, and Karma was introduced before support items/runes were a thing, so she was usually locked out of major item spikes when played as support.
Especially the lack of gold for supports impacted her more than most.
YES! As a karma main since shortly before her season 3 rework, I wholeheartedly agree.
God I miss her old kit, I still feel betrayed. Her tether stun was so good.
I used to play it mid. It was surprisingly good at baiting in enemies
I miss my old Karma, the lethal and elegant fans, the powerful damaging shield, and two R that you can charge
I liked the old chains more with the ally enemy choice. It a shame it didn't get kept.
I have been thinking how powerful that would be fighting alongside with the new irelia
Also the passive is the love of mine for this game, that works into her background story so well! There are many brave female fighters in the game already, and her character of mediation and determination was so unique and powerful
Me too me too :) karma is my 2nd favorite champion. Or... was. Due all the nerfs she is not good anymore like she was. + her old disign was really that attract me. Also my fiora, i still think about yhis champ every day. It was my main when i start the game..she also got fcked by riot..:'(
The old karma was so much more unique, anyone remember the hate train you got by simply picking her? Now the remake turned her into an even more generic, non-descript champ that led her to get so much nerfs and Changes on her E.
And it also didn’t help they recycled her whole kit to champs like ivern,
Great to finally see someone acknowledge Karma as the OG VGU xD. A few things im surprised you didn't mention though:
1. Karma's mini rework in 5.10 - that's the update that completely killed her duality and removed damage from RE. As a result of this, Mantra has gradually become cheaper and more spammable over the years, splitting the community between those who enjoyed more thoughtful/impactful Mantras and those who enjoy spammable Mantras.
2. RW dealt bonus damage before it became a bonus root. Was curious to hear your opinion on this because it was the change that disincentivised AP builds in favour of HP stacking and created Tank Karma in top lane.
3. The mini-rework splitting her between 3 different playstyles based on Mantra usage (RQ/AP, RW/HP and RE/Utility items) by reducing her AP dependence and making her more functional as a support.
I feel like I wrote too much already 😅, but thanks for the vid! 😊
And the OG VU was Tryndamere and Kayle :)
Wow! Came here just to say this. She really did shift from mage to tank.
i am usualy BOTLANE advc coz my adc suc
You could never write too much about karma.
theres also the other mini rework in season 10-11 where they removed her utility in favour for increased damage
Her original W only did damage if an enemy got closelined by the tether.
She had a deceptively safe way of poking in lane with her mantra e.
Old Karma required to remain calm and despite being close to death, be able to react with fluidity with mantra+ e and Q.
Karma was the Queen of Shields, and Bamboozling😂
I miss my first main, and being closer to 10 years of her being gone, I still get nostalgic and remember.🖤
She was my first main as well. The single fact you could cast W on wards gave you so many options to be creative with her. After her rework it took me a long time to find a new main, eventually noticing the old urgot for midlane. And then he got reworked as well. I stopped trying to main a champion after that.
@@Nikolai0169 I miss spirit bonding to minions to get back to lane faster 😭
Ugh I miss my main as well. Its kinda sad she got literally deleted from the game. I used to play karma mid. She was really good
I really miss old Karma because she was a design for a League of Legends that never came to be.
She was a support that was perfect for a non-marksman botlane, like Garen or Singed. I remember back in 2012 when I went bot a ton with a friend I roped into League and had a blast leveling up.
She was also busted in 3v3 twisted treeline, both versions of the map.
Edit: Tl;Dr Her first version never took off because almost immediately after she came out, the duo marksman/support bot became the meta and everything else was suboptimal.
Why is it still the meta? The marksmen are easily destroyed by mages on bot. You can take two bruisers as well, or tanks. And just engage on the squishy duo. Idk
Aside from her kit, I really hope they create another aesthetic like her. The lethal fans, Ying-Yang aesthetics, South-Eastern inspired clothing and styling, and sexy-with-class vibes. I guess that's why I really loved Mel from Arcane. She really reminded me of Old Karma, both in design and political role.
Not that I hate Karma's current design, but they really need to go all out on her design. There's so much they can do with "Ionia's core spiritual leader" and she just ends up looking like a Caribbean festival dancer who lost half of her ceremonial decorations. All of her skin concepts can act as a better lore design for her. Even her concept design and promotional designs look better, but her in-game appearance is so underwhelming. She definitely needs an overhaul in some way. This isn't even delving into her mess of a kit, which really doesn't do her name justice.
Old Karma could work in 2022 (with number adjustments). Back in the day, supports were just poor, so Karma couldn't scale. And she could both protect and attack if her lane partner was in melee range, so she could work well with a melee bot laner, like Yasuo, irelia or maybe samira.
Actually Vars mentioning the change of fonts color in champions spotlights got me intrigued. I am aware of color psychology and thus very curious what’s the reason behind the change. I mean there has to be one, right? What buisness did Riot have in it. I MUST KNOW
Usually it marks a turning point or rebranding haha
It is when they started rebranding lol and its image to a more hextechy look
The new look of summoner rift changes a lot of things
What do you think about her rework in WIld Rift? Her rework in season 3 made wonders, but she was very toxic in toplane as she is ranged, deals heavy damage and heals a lot with an empowered w.
The rework in WR, took that toxic patter and added a more powerful stun, you can stun till two people, and a new ultimate. Her passive is now like Seraphine.
She's definitely in a way better place now. Not as cancerous to fight anymore, but still strong. They did well imo.
the wild rift karma is better
What's the new ultimate?
@@TStizzle19 summons a donut, knocking enemies inside the donut. Basically ranged Diana’s ult.
I saw it and I hate it.
You loose the possibility to use the Mantra at your will and you get forced to use it, when it is up.
That's terrible and ruins her Spirit.
I don't understand why she should get reworked.
The only thing I find strange is her High Base HP.
A thing this video doesn't capture (probably because there is practically no footage of old Karma, if I am not mistaken Vars didn't play league at that time and even if he did chances are he wouldn't see a Karma anyway) is that in my opinion we shouldn't talk about old Karma as a support... she was a short ranged fighter mage that dealt her 100% aoe damage while supporting an ally. She excelled in crammed teamfights because all her damage was aoe and at the same time she was meant to support the frontline. Ideally she would deal damage while having her q heal the tank end her E shield it. Storing 2 charges of Matra also meant that she could always use her aoe E damage and decide what to do with the other.
The secret of her power was that her skills had huge damage differential, meaning that her 280 base damage RE wasn't much but if you add that it was aoe and at the same time a 280 shield, probably then we are talking about a minimum 840 team damage difference with 0 AP and just 2 targets damaged.
It is a shame that people didn't see her as primarily a damage dealer but went "she has a shield and a heal? she MUST be a support"
I don't blame Riot for making her a support because that's where most people thought she belonged(that was a design failure on her first design)
On a sidenote Riot's main comment about this rework is that they removed her fans, which was a big part of her visual identity, and they think that was a mistake. They had to wait until Aatrox's rework to admit that completely changing a champion's playstyle was also a bad thing.
And yet they still keep doing it
Old Karma was far from weak if you utilized her passive correctly.
I love new Karma, but I miss the days of low health Mantra shield + Lich Bane auto instagibbing anyone but the tankiest of champs.
I feel her rework was ahead of her time, because we've seen other champions utilize basically all of her old abilities. Rell's tether between an ally, Ivern/Vex/Kayle's shieldbomb, she had all the tools but this was the time before support items and with that little income, if you weren't snowballing you were making virtually no gold
The fools who would tower dive a karma at 10% HP.
@@evilsforreals4903 don't forget about senna's Q giving both a heal and damage
her R is kinda similar but it's a shield instead
9:15 I hate that they changed that.
It felt so regarding seeing your Mantra CD go down, because you keep AA the enemy Champions. You really felt skillfull doing it.
Now it is just hit your Spells.
This Passiv is the reason, why and how I learned to AA as Support. Because with karma I knew there is a big Reward.
The autoattack cd reduction is the one thing that kept her problematic in proplay and sololanes because she could just endlessly bully melee characters and reduce mantra. It was a great and much needed change that finally made her balanceable
@@romankarol5370 fax
karma top was cancer
Karma top was not cancer, pro players were cancer, I was using Karma top for years before it got seen professionally and it did alright, not good, not bad just alright. The thing that made it cancerous was you have a top lane go full support and win lane against their opponent because of well they could poke and 1vs1. Like Karma top is perfectly balanced as a full mage but unbalanced as full support. Thats the reason it got reworked.
I miss old Karma, mainly her duality on her skills.
I wish they could change her W to connect to allies and share damage or something, or even heal with the empowerment of her R.
I also miss her shield doing damage with Mantra and her Q healing if hit allies (the post damage could heal allies if they change a little).
But anyways, can't say the old one was better, but I miss her so much, just like Galio, Yorick and Sion (the only ones I miss the old kit). They were fun to me, better than today may I add, never gonna forget them :/
At least old isn't another morgana/lux copy
Old Karma had too many surprises in fact, and if you knew how to play her, those 100% health shields and half hp heals were game changers
Glad to see the Karma video. Was hoping to hear a few more blurbs about the shield bombing, but this video is focused on post-rework so it makes sense that we didn’t dwell too much about the specifics of old Karma’s kit. Overall solid restrospective.
I miss how old Karma would use herself as bait (kind of like AP Shaco does now)
She was so busted vs melee, especially Assassins.
They jump on you at low hp, DFG, Mantra shield, Mantra Q, tether a minion, and you win the fight.
You also were able to Mantra shield minions when your opponent went to last hit them to both poke and mess up their farm.
She was so fun
In wild rift they reworked her.
Now her ult is her passive, and hey new ult is basically a Diana ult
I love these rework videos, because for a player that came into league around when yasuo and riven VS event was up (whatever season that was), I get to learn old champion iterations and how they were designed. off topic gripe, but I wish vars would put the music he used in the description.
omg thank you Vars
I've been waiting since the first champion rework series!
And now it happened!
Your videos just simply legit!
I loved old Karma, just as I Loved old Galio. The janky awkward champions bring me joy. When I started playing in S2, I remember looking through the roster, seeing Karma and thinking, "I need to save IP for her, she looks so fun."
Really looking forward to hearing your POV on Galio =)
Season 2 man.. those were the times.. :')
He talked about Galio in the reworks vid and seems generally positive about it. Personally I disagree because there's literally nothing connecting the two, and only the vaguest similarities in their kit or themes.
I disagree about new Karma being basic support like Lux and Morgana, she clearly stands out as a champion who has sustain damage and utility all at once and her abilities along with mantra clearly seem more unique than some basic Lux things. Also, I was surprised you did not talk about Karma's performance in different levels of play, it is true she has solid pick rate, but she performs better in the higher ranks, especially in pro play. She is somewhat close to Ryze in this regard, that's why she is kinda useless in low elos, meanwhile being one of the most picked/banned champions in the pro play. Unlike Ryze though, her kit is more interesting and she maintains popularity everywhere.
but karma, morg, lux are midlaners, it makes me sad morg and karma so weak in mid due to nerfs.
Amazing vídeo, was waiting for the karma episode since the series started :3
Karma lost not only the duality of her abilities with her VGU, she also lost all that defined her identity lore-wise and visually-wise:
- In the old lore Karma was a Duchess, a politician and the figurehead of the Ionian resistance against the Noxian invasion. Now she's the last incarnation of the Spirit of Ionia, much like LeBlanc is the latest LeBlanc to inherit the title.
- Visually she was really different from all the other female characters in the game when she was released. She wore a black and white full dress that shown little to no skin and also used a pair of fans to channel her abilities. The rework not only removed her fans, which was a big part of her identity, but it also changed her model to a more "visually attractive" character like the rest of the female cast.
Sure, there were people who didn't like her "granny appearence" and there's lots of players that don't care about the lore of the game, but they changed an interesting character into a more boring one both visually and in her gameplay.
Dunno, current Karma is the only champion so far that has a 'spiritual' character to her. All of her being is about peace, meditation, spirituality, and natural balance, and it translates very well with her kit, animations and dialogue. And I do prefer that for her.
Granted, they could have taken over the fans, as no champ even today wields none, but it would somewhat clash with her premise. Though I too would have preferred a newer design that would come closer to a priestess/spirit caller instead of a green dress that tells nothing about the champ.
Otherwise, they could take the idea of an ionian dutchess with fans and release a new champion based on that.
Vars only discusses gameplay
Great video as always, though I do wish you'd have at least said something about Karma's Wild Rift update. It's not as sweeping as the first VGU, but the alterations making her into a Battlemage Enchanter were definitely something interesting, and I personally did have fun playing her. It felt like playing a sorta ranged Jhin or a more versatile Annie, where you had to time your attacks and learn to space them out for the best results. Still, though, it's a solid vid.
As someone who has mained her since season 2, I can understand there are things that are better now and other things that just aren't. When ricklessabandon removed the shield bomb and the Developers refused to cater to nothing but backline AOE shield support Mantra E, that's when players just got really upset. It's one thing to remove the fans, the dress, the duality, the passive, the clothesline tether, and the heavenly weave healing, it really came at the expense of no gameplay identity, a conflicting gameplay identity, a boring kit, a unoriginal kit and a kit that exists on other champions and even item actives. They did away with duality for Mantra? What is so amazing about Mantra? There is no charge system on Mantra and the functionality is basically a empowered version of her basic abilities, which exists on other champion kits. Duality and originality was taken away for the current proplay problem and extremely lackluster kit. Karma should be doing more and have a definitive purpose and she should have more unique elements in her kit and a gameplay identity. Sitting in the backline and pressing Mantra E or shooting out a Mantra Q from the backline, is not riveting gameplay or solves her problems. She needs a gameplay update to completely reimagine Mantra W and W, give her a actual fun passive, and remove AOE shields in favor of shield bomb again or find a more unique way to use her shield that doesn't exist in the game. Karma's entire kit exists on item actives mostly.
Original reworked karma kept the damage on defiance (mantra shield) it was nerfed compared to soul shiled mantra version, but it still did damage back in the day.
Old Karma was my first main; I was so upset they changed her.
kassadins ult cooldown being 7 seconds at 3:20 brought a tear to my eye. Everyone talks about damage creep I hear nothing about cdr creep. I personally don't enjoy ults always being up (for the most part) cuz it removes the consequences of not having it.
Been loving this series so far. I'm so excited for the Taric one! :D
She used to be able to heal her entire team to full with one empowered Q. It was glorious. Mantra decisions felt more impactful, and making proper use of Mantras was extremely rewarding. I used to love her. Now I rarely play her at all.
That last section talking about the legacy of Riot's reworks really made me realise how much they sacrificed singular identities in favour of generically good kits. Sion and Poppy went from completely unique champions with jank everywhere to pretty generic tanks with very slight specialities.
I really miss those wild older kits where champions were completely singular in their aims or builds and you really had to learn each champion to play against them. Those kits weren't always totally healthy for the game but needing to have a defined gameplan against each champ was a hell of a lot more rewarding than how it is now where the aim is pretty much always to kill your lane opponent if your match up is favourable or not die and farm if it's not favourable. The neutral game now is largely uniform no matter what you're playing into and that couldn't be said of some of those wacky old school kits.
The old design also led to both Sion and Poppy being unplayable garbage.
Sion singular? A point and click stun, a shield that can be recasted to deal damage and a E and a R that are stat buffs.
He was incredibly generic, the only reason he is sometimes missed is because the disappearance of Sion AP.
Old ad Sion is way less singular than the new Sion. Thinking otherwise is just nostalgia talking and not an objective comparison of their kits.
I think that what you mentioned about laning phases' goal being uniform is a bad thing. But it does make it much easier to play for new players without having to understand the 160 champ kits of league.
@@omarmosaad3553 Very true but personally I found learning all the kits one of the most fun things about League. I got absolutely abused the first time I was against a decent Lee Sin and learning that kit and beating Lee players in the future was really rewarding, but each to their own
The main thing I miss about old Karma was her walk animation. Like her fabulous sashay when going anywhere. Iconic.
I really miss popping a gigantic mantra shield and murdering an enemy dive with the AOE, or how the laser tether did damage to enemies that it crossed. There were some fun plays to be had there. I know she's in a better place, but her old kit had a uniqueness to it that was fun to use, even if it was a bit janky. And with today's itemization, and acceptance of mages into the support role, her old kit wouldn't be terrible. People regularly build tank karma as it is.
karma's empowered E used to do damage even after her big rework but riot removed it later , i think she had her E damage for few seasons until riot removed it
Oh my old Karma. I miss playing you in top lane and 1v1 everyone
i don't know how VARS hasn't hit the 1 mil already. high quality, entertaining AF content, and don't get me started of the representation, non can replicate the VARS representation. keep on going brother. love the content
I for sure thought you were gonna go over wild rift Karma. That iteration of her is pretty good in my opinion. Gives her some interesting interaction and feel good moments with her wild rift ult.
The best part of pre rework Karma, was nobody knew what she actually did due to her being the most unplayed champion in the game.
That lead to so many moments where the enemy just flat out had no clue what to do against you. Also the incredible bait moments you could do with a 1k heal and 1k shield when an assassin tried to dive you was hilarious.
The shield bombs were the best 🥺
I live for the apology that she was not included in the empowered abilities vid
Rework Karma's mantra link was %missing HP heal over time at first.
I played her adc because of that & passive you coul duel any adc without going under 33% HP that was unsain.
My favorite hybrid support. I even remember when the book for spell vamp was still available then add spirit visage she's really OP.
This video makes me confused about all of Riot decisions for her rework. Her issue was a powerful duality only with ult, leading to basic abilities being too weak for balance, and a non natural passive ? Interchange stuff !
Passive : Current one (not prockingon autos). Make it a lesser cooldown reducing if she procks damage too fast not to make all her AOE skills too op with it (like fisrt prock is 1 sec, all subsequents ones on the same skill go down to 0.5 sec).
Q : Heal + Damage on basic ability. Keep it a low number to forcer her to prock both dmg and heal at the same time to be really effective and not just spamming heal safely. Move the scaling missing health dmg and heal on Mantra for clutch plays and executions.
W : Make the tether both slow ennemies and speed up allies, regardless of who you link to. AP scaling on movespeed modifier. Keep mantra the same.
E : Shield + Damage on basic ability. Simply make both more powerful on Mantra (underwelming but easy and instinctive to use).
R : Well you just read it.
All of these would have kept her duality theme, made her more consistant on basic abilities, and kept a necessary careful use of her Mantra, while pushing a more risk/reward gameplay by forcing her to go in and inflict damage to prock her passive, solidifying her as a battlemage while remaining very utility focused.
I wish that they brought back some of the old tether: lower the healing by like 50%, but allow tethering to allies and heal any allies that pass through the tether.
10:40 “maybe fantasized on a sunday, BUT NOT TRIFLED VITH!”
I hope Poppy Rework Retrospective is coming up. I love playing her and if I had played before she was reworked I don't know if I would be as fond of the champ.
Thanks for the content as always.
I think old Karma was amazing, only that her Q was like old Darius Q, was undodgable, so there was no counterplay and therefore it was overall weak as an ability. And her E was just a shield, back then I used to compare her shield with Janna's shield, Morgana's shield and so on and she was underwhelming
I love Karma as she is. But i desparately miss old Karma. She was way more fun to play. She had her niche, and I really liked that about her. And i remember them changing her just before a meta in which she would have been amazing. I was so disappointed. I would kill to play her again.
I miss the old karma 😭 thanks for this. Blast from the past
People may not know this but when Karma vs got rework her mantra e did do damage as well but removed it from her kit after while.
4:25 the tether only did damage if an enemy touched it. If you tethered to an enemy champion they would only get the slow
I'm surprised you didn't mention that for a while "new" Karma's RE still damaged nearby enemies.
There are happy little mistakes and then we have karma rework
As a karma main, it was fun learning about her old iteration. It makes me appreciate playing with her Traditional skin more
Watching clips of old league feels the same way when watching clips of sports from the 80's.
Her old W, buffing an ally or for 5 seconds tethering an enemy and continously slowing, that's a very cool ability and I'd have wanted to be able to play with it.
Her old E, doing damage around an ally, it sounds impactful but also similar to current Renata E.
Her old E remained after the official rework until season 6, it's quite different than Renata's E. The shield would "radiate" from your target and either shield/ damage from their location. Thing is the damage's super inconsistent + ratio scaled back due to the "two in one" aspect (back then there was no heal/shield item buff). So it's basically a mediocre shield with a tiny haste with even a lower damage output and way way too high CD (if you don't accidentally shield the minions instead).
Tbh I wish that there would be a Meele Bruser Mage Hybrid with parts of old karmas kit. That would be awesome.
techincally parts of her old kit exists in other champs....... that "shield bomb"? Oh look Ivern has it........
a spell that sheild allies and damages enemy unit, look no further than renata's misiles,
the tether link that slows enemies and add more MS to urself and allies? jayce weapon ranged form has it, it just doesn't "link" to enemy or allies.
I kinda wish you had an honorable mention of Karma in wild rift.
I wanna hear your thoughts on her.
Her empowered abilities there are like Rengar's, every 4th is empowered, and she has an ultimate ability
Interesting, what does her WR ult do?
I seem to remember she was designed to support melee carries, when that concept was discarded she was just a half baked everything and she wasnt any good before either :/
If u are going “Hold on, Karma had a rework?” You are not alone
That skillshot heal, like OG Ezreal. Good old times.
Old Karma was my go-to for everything but jungle. Id probably still be onetricking her to this day if the rework hadnt removed everything I liked about her old kit. There used to be a reason to hold onto your mantras for those big shield AoE bursts off your front line, for your well-placed 1k healing to your whole team in a pinch. Hell, her W used to be a slow/speed zone, it was a complete deadzone for the enemy back then. Now though, her gameplay feels much more one dimensional, just keeping shields on your whole team while mantraing every second Q. She lost all of her big moments in favor of a consistent boring one.
What do you think about wild rift karma? The pc ult become her passive where after casting three abilities the next one will be empowered versioj and her ult is replaced by donut shaped cc that drag enemy to the center like orianna ult. She is one of the best support now in wild rify
that sounds pretty neat actually. DId she lose anything of her old kit in exchange for this or did they just move stuff arround?
@@datzfatz2368 she lost her 5 man shield , now a ring forms around the shielded ally and whoever enters that ring first gets shielded as well.
@@datzfatz2368 she lost her heal
She seems like the perfect fit between the simple early champion design and the overcomplicated ones of now.
I think it's worth talking about what they did with her in Wild Rift as well. They made her empowering abilities be her passive and gave her a new ult where she pulls everyone into a donut aoe on top of a fair bit of damage. I've always preferred playing Karma mid so I found that version of her pretty fun to combo with
Karma is still a fav of mine but the things things they took out of her kit annoy me, the shields losing the damage to enemies when you empowered it, being able to tether minions. I was such a menace Mid lane and even more in Bot. Shes still decent I just miss all those other damaging opetions she used to have
I remember spending the 3150 IP on Karma right before her VGU so I'd get the traditional skin. And then it was made available I chests.
"The Karma we know and..." wait, people know Karma?
"Karma can't have good numbers if her abilities have both ally and enemy interactions"
Meanwhile Senna...
Can we talk about that nautilus at 12:52
Karma received some changes in her kit for Wild Rift:
-Her passive activates every 3 abilities casted. (Like Sona.)
-Her empowered E creates a ring around the chosen ally, first ally that enters the ring gets the exact same shield as the chosen ally. (The entire team no longer gets a shield.)
-Her W tether up to 2 targets. (If both are within cast range.)
-Her empowered W will create a tether between 2 targets if the second target wasn’t within cast range but near first target. (Failure to break the tether between them will root both targets.)
-Removed healing on empowered W.
-Her R is an AoE (1s delay) explosion that deals Magic Damage with AP scaling (60%), slows enemies hit by it (35% for 1s), knocks any enemy caught in it’s outer ring towards its center.
Does this qualify as a Rework?
Was the Soraka visual updated and then gameplay update before or after Karma's VGU? I'd love to know if you're interested in covering that.
It was so long ago that I totally forgot what old Karma abilities was, lol.
5:00 Nah she still had the Shield Damage with mantra, after her rework.
But sadly she lost it.
I love how every champ looks different in the old vods.. except udyr, he looks identical lmao
It would be great if they would make a game mode where we can use old-school champions. Of course it would be "balanced" so anyone can enjoy the game mode.
Maybe let people play VS Bots with the old Champs and numbers, but new Items... would be fun to mess around with.
Too much work
I quite liked old karma a lot. I really played her less once she got rework though. I feel like the only real issue I had with her was how her old w work? I find it kinda underwhelming? But going tank karma with empowered q that heals base on missing health was kinda godlike and I really miss how her RE used to deal damage :/
i love her use of fans to fight, similar to irelia, given both are from ionia. now her powers are basic...energy blast.
6:38 Are you sure that Lulu existed back then? I remember that the VGU for Karma came before Lulu.
as a top laner all I know was sometimes Karma randomly hurt and she would tether to me. This was a nice fun way to actually learn what she does. I had no idea she had a 20 second empowerment ult! like heimer but spammable
Karma was greatly underestimated before, I was a Karma OG main back then. That baiting to low life and then Ult + Shield is devastating. Hahaha
Sad facts as a Fiora main, Fiora is the only champion that received a full VGU that has no champion spotlight, rework teaser, new recall animation, new emotes 1,2,3,4, new voice lines
I think Tryndamere was the 1. got the fury system and visual in 2011 if im correct.
12:53 I'm curious as to what made that naut decide to just troll.
What would you think about making a video about the mid scope changes that for the recent champions
Karma's abilities differ in Wild Rift. Her Mantra is now her passive and her ult is now an area CC like Ori's ult. I would like to hear your thoughts about ability differences in LOL PC and WR
Karma was my first official support I main back in the day. So when she got her rework I got her classic skin for free lol
I am s happy to own this Skin to, because I bought her just 1 patch before the Rework xD
I remember old Karma. If old Karma showed up in your game it was either going to be the easiest/hardest 4v6 ever or she was a one trick who was going to solo carry the game.
Old Karma W looks fun tbh... I wish they kept it. Reminds me of IO from DOTA. Tbh... changing her passive and Q is fine. But I feel like they could keep W and E then update it.
Karma was the first in a long line of champions that I mained getting changed to the point where I didn't want to play them anymore sadly.
It's nice to see a content creator acknowledge and correct mistakes.
You keep saying that removing the harm/help duality removed her personal identity but usually mention it in the same breath as Lulu.
To me it seems they solidified both characters' identities which had a lot of overlap.
I remember playing the old karma on top lane. You would take magic pen and ap runes , try to go as low as possible on a level 1 trade and actually one shot your opponent with her old Q . That shit was so cheesy
Just want to point out that old karma had mantra charges so you could use your ult twice
At first I was very happy with her rework but after 1 week i was already missing the old one because she was fun to play and had more dmg output.... and I feel like she lost a lot of her identity...
-a lot of people (back in the day) were really sad that she had no more fans which was a fun and sick weapon to have.
-I still feel that OG Karma had way more dmg output possibilities (Q W E+R), now if you don't Q+R in fight you're mostly a Shieldbot.... It was really cool when they kept the dmg on her E at first but when it comes to choice they prefered to give her the speedboost and remove the dmg ...
-her new W is a very cool ability to survive and can even surprise the enemies and the root is fine but I still feel like her old W was better.... we had way more choice with it and I still think it did more dmg than now..
-The fact they acknowledge that Karma had a really small but dedicated fanbase and that rework was made mostly to bump her popularity and make her a more viable mid pick without losing her og fanbase was very cool of them but in the end I feel (idk if others did too) but she was viable at first as a mid pick but with all the little nerfs here and there and removing of dps output in her kit just pushed her back to support once again and now she feels "low average" as a mid pick because she will be outdps really fast once it comes to long games.... If you pick her mid you may start as a carry but once midgame comes you just go back to being a supp because she gets out dmg really easily and you just have to become once again a shieldbot...
I know nostalgia can alternate the view and judgement on things but everytime I pick her I just feel sad and wish everytime that we could have old karma back or atleast something closer to that... and I don't think that's a good view to have when a champ is reworked. Out of all the reworks I only have those feelings toward Karma, so I don't really think that it is a bad take from me.
(Sorry if some sentences doesn't really make sens, english isn't my first language :D)
I always expected them to rerework Karma. If they did some day, this might even bring me back to playing LoL more regularly. I feel like the old Karma would perfectly fit into modern LoL with just some little adjustments while the new Karma just plays like 30 other Champs and is pretty boring to play or watch in my opinion
Technically speaking isn's soraka the fist VGU ? They changed her q which would smack all enemies within her range with a falling star and her E would restore mana to allies ?
I really want a video about her Wild Rift rework. Giving her emp skills.....is good...I like....
I remember when she could use her shield on minions
That's was amazing to take down towers
As someone who mained Karma in S1, I knew her kit and play style was a little off. She needed some changes to give her an identity of being either a healing battle mage or a bursting shield support. She was doing both and that wasn’t a good thing. We wanted some changes to give her a direction, not a full on re-design.
They took away the fans and changed her completely, I was so upset that my champion got deleted. I stopped playing her afterwards because she just wasn’t the same anymore.