What's most ironic is that one of the two blades that killed him was his own. I bet he was humiliated when he saw his lightsaber used as some off hand weapon
Isn´t it a bit weird that even when Dooku despises so much the use of two lightsabers and saberstaffs nearly all of his apprentices use them? Except for Qui-Gon they all do, at least the ones I know of: Grievous, Ventress, Savage Opress... Are they trying to piss him off or something?
Savage used dual blades as a way to show respect for his heritage, the Zhaboka is a traditional Zabrak weapon which possesses dual blades. Ventress was originally trained in single bladed combat, but she wields two blades as a tribute to Ky Narec, so she may strike at the Jedi with both their blades, tear them apart with the rage of both a master and apprentice who were abandoned by the Order. Dooku encouraged each student to customize their form, Grievous' path to his was quad blade wielding, allowing him to utilize the unnatural levels of speed, power and precision his cybernetics afforded him, combining them into a style that overwhelmed with sheer number of attacks and intimidated with the unfamiliar bladework. The overwhelming assault ended battles swiftly, further fortifying the fear tactics Dooku always taught him to use. In his own way, Grievous was applying and honoring his instructor.
Interesting. I'm still not completely sold on the whole not really using their master's style (except for maybe Ventress up to a certain extent) but I guess their physical attributes also come into play, and except for Ventress and Qui-Gonn, the rest were too bulky for fancy swordplay...
Anton Corriente That depends more on flexibility and precision, Force Speed can be used to compensate for natural movement speed, for example, Darth Bane was bulky, but could outpace the much lighter Darth Zannah. In addition, Grievous (in the Clone Wars micro series) could move even faster than Jedi Masters from the High Council specializing in lightsaber combat (Ki-Adi-Mundi and Shaak Ti). My guess is that, while Dooku heavily favored one handed Makashi, so long as the students customized whichever approach to best fit their needs and was diligent, he would prize their dedication to a single approach over his distaste for the methods and continue to instruct them on their path , since he had a lot of knowledge on every style (so as to best deconstruct them and best tailor his Makashi approach to neutralize them).
It is unusual, but it also has a lot of symbolism. Dooku's best student was Qui-Gon Jinn, while Ventress, Komari Vosa, and Grevious were never as complete or dedicated as Jinn was. Jinn was only one of two apprentices that Dooku was confirmed to have trained as a Jedi, and was his greatest student. However, he also shared some similarities with the other three: a maverick streak. Jar'kai is rare, and this difference from more common methods gave it's practitioners an advantage over people who barely encountered it, similar to the Saber-staff. KaiserAfini was right that Opress' weapon was closely related to Zabraki traditional weapons, and carried some cultural significance. While General Grievous was a cyborg, and using only one weapon with his standard strength would several restrict his combative speed and waste his cybernetic strength. He needed both to be able to contend with master Jedi swordsman, and Jedi Counsil masters. Also, the Intergalactic Banking Clan created Grievous' mechanical body with no input from Dooku. So they designed his combat options according to their perceptions of how to kill Jedi: with mechanical strength and speed used with four arms to overwhelm them, similar to using continuous and beyond overwhelming barrages of blaster-fire from every possible angle to kill Jedi. It would be wasteful to not make use of what he had, so Grievous made use of everything he had, just like being ready to cut and run if he was defeated. Ventures also learned the basics of Jar-kai before becoming Dooku's apprentice. And he gave her a new set of lightsabers when she joined his cause. This was a skill she was unwilling to drop, so instead of waste time beating it out of her, Dooku decided to work with what he had and trained her to use them in Mavashi-Style Jar-kai. Komari Vosa likely adapted Jar-kai because she was following one of the tenants of master-level Makashi: develop unique moves and options to avoid predictability. duel-blades as standard weapons was rare, and pairing them with makashi was even rarer. This difference made her stand as unique, although it contradicted Dooku's private preferences. Qui-GOn was Dooku's best student, and the only one who ever became a successful master in his own right. Unlike the other four, Qui-Gon took Dooku's lessons deeper to heart, becoming a "maverick who was different for the sake of being different."(Jensaari, Qui-Gon Jinn vs. Ven Zallow)This was truly for his philosophy, political views, and fighting-style (heavily revising a personalized Ataru that was superior to the classical variant in very way). Instead of using specific weapons to reflect this maverick streak, he used the standard lightsaber and applied it to different elements of his skills and perspectives. Qui-Gon followed Dooku's teachings closest to heart, and he was the Count's greatest legacy and greatest pride. It was Jinn's death and the Council's refusal to investigate it further that influenced him to take a leave of absence form the Order, and was manipulated by Darth Sidious into making Dooku his apprentice. Ventures, Grievous, Vosa, and Opress followed different roads, and were all failures or tools that were used a discarded. They all used some various of Jar-kai, while Qui-Gon used the conventional and practical.
I read that Mace Windu had actually once employed Jar'Kai with his Vaapad style. It kinda sucks that we never got to see a live combat Vaapad variant of Jar'Kai.
I find it interesting that there are different versions of Jar-Kai... The Shien variant used by Ahsoka. The Makashi variant used by Ventress. And of course the Juyo variant used by Darth Maul and Palpatine in The Clone Wars. As well as the Ataru variant briefly used by Anakin in Episode 2. Can basically any style translate into some kind of Jar-Kai variant?
Saying Ahsoka only used Shien-based Jar'Kai is kind of reductive. Her style was more of an Ataru/Shien mix Jar'kai, and in TCW Season 7 and Rebels, she pretty much shifted into only Ataru-based , if not Niman-based.
Yes, but there are definite trade offs to using Jar'Kai depending on the form you're using. That's why its generally associated with forms 4 and 6. Because those forms are most adaptable to Jar'Kai.
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I’d like to hear that answer from an Eskrima or Kali master. Most certainly Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) employs two blades but sometimes one blade is dagger sized while the other is Machete sized. FMA can also employ single blade with an active empty hand very effectively. We don’t really have good descriptions or instruction manuals of the fictional blade wielding martial are of Jar’Kai but from the little I know of FMA it is very complex and would not leave an accomplished combatant severely disadvantaged if he were to lose a blade.
@@Johncalonso I'm a practitioner not a Master but yes.. in FMA.. we have Solo Baston (one stick), Doble Baston (two sticks) and Espada y Daga (Sword with Dagger/Knife)
Also pay attention to how the use of the free hand is described in Niman, actively striking and grabbing, often with the force, in a way that is actively being integrated with the flow of combat, that's textbook FMA.
Will you cover the other known strange combat styles? Teras Kasi? (perhaps implemented into Ataru and Vapaad) Form Zero? Sokan? Mounted Lightsaber Combat? Telekinetic Lightsaber Combat? Trákata? Dun-Möch? (And Reverse Dun-Möch) And most importantly *Trispzest*? Which could be the next logical step after discussing Jar'Kai. I do hope so! :)
Dun moch is not a lightsaber form it's more like a show off to a lesser adversary to intimidate them with other either superior lightsaber skills , show boating of more impressive force ability's or just the physical intimidation
Neither is Jar'kai. Jar'kai is the blanket term fr all dual-wielding styles. One can dual-wield Ataru, Niman, Juyo (making some sacrifices), Makashi (making some sacrifices), Shiii-Cho, and maybe Soresu.
So in a short answer, yeah. :D Well you focused on Dun-Möch not being directly a saber style, while you forgot to notice Teras Kasi... Teras Kasi is mostly unarmed melee fightning, mostly not used during lightsaber combat, except when physical strikes are implemented into swordplay (Ataru, Vapaad). Where as Dun-Möch is just psychological taunting, yet invented to be during lightsaber combat!!
Or a much better question: Instead of just attacking with the mainhand and defending with the offhand... What would happen if a "battle master" with two sabers designated one lightsaber style for each lightsaber? Like using the mainhand saber like a Juyo main backbone, and using the offhand saber as a Makashi supplement? What if he could effortlessly switch between styles for both hands during a duel or a battle? What styles would an Ataru centric person and a Niman type choose? How would Pong Krell, Sora Bulq, or Kao Cen Darach's styles change due to this new idea?
So basically... Form I was created from various sword based martial arts that predated the emergence of lightsabers. Form II was likewise based upon ancient fencing schools but adapted to take into account the unique properties of a lightsaber's blade. Form III evolved from basic Form I blast deflection training and refined into the ultimate art of passive defence. Form IV (as you theorised) is one of the Forms derived from the ancient Niman/Jar'Kai in which mobility and use of the entire body as a weapon compensates for the lack of strength to effectively block a more powerful opponent. Form V evolved from Form III but was more aggressive in a bid to avoid prolonging a conflict without sacrificing defence. Form VI also derived from ancient Niman/Jar'Kai except that unlike Form IV's focus on aggressive mobility and reliability on constant momentum to drive power into its attacks, Form VI blended elements of all previous styles essentially completing the circle of combat that began with Form I and the ancient dual blade Niman/Jar'Kai styles. Form VII I view as a Sith martial art adopted and later adapted by the Jedi Order during and after the Great Hyperspace War in 5,000 BBY.
Hope so, maybe he will expand on telekinetic lightsaber combat or deconstruct Faalo's cadences, those are really cool topics that are not often analyzed.
The way I tell Jar'Kai and Niman's dual-wielding portion apart is like this: For Niman, you have a full-length blade in your main hand, and a shorter blade in your off-hand. For Jar'Kai, you have a full-length blade in EACH hand.
this channel is a hidden gem of Star Wars lore; my apologies for taking so long to find you….couldn’t ever vocalize or in-vision the lore behind dual-wielding lightsabers & i got exactly what i wanted…much better than making a reddit post. THANK YOU 🙏🏿🖤
(Ive said this so many times now) But this is another excellent breakdown of lightsaber martial arts. A wide variety of history and sourcing allowing one to give an objective breakdown, but still able to add their own additional pieces of insight. The only thing I disagree with is that Exar Kun=Grevious due to the logistics of their physiology and weaponry. But that's a pretty minor problem. A shame their was no mention of Darth Krayt though.
Rob George Krayt only really used it 50% of the time and I suppose there is more swordsmen and swordswoman who have better Dipictions of Jar'Kai in the starwars EU mythos. But I would expect him to be mentioned more...
Jar’kai could be applied masterfully to Forms 1 3 4 5 6 and 7. However a way to use it with Makashi is to use force telekinesis to use 1 or more blades while using 1 hand to grip the lightsaber and the off hand to use force attacks. The off handed blades would break your opponents center while the duelist attacking with speed and precision targets the vulnerable spots. This form 2 jar’kai variant allows the practitioner not to become enslaved to technique or easily overpowered both weaknesses of Makashi.
This is my favorite technique as I can be adaptable to every situation. Also like Starkiller clone, I would utilize both ataru and Niman forms in conjunction to the Jar' Kai technique.
@danielcooke3800 that is understandable as the original one used one lightsaber in the first one before Galen Marek was cloned in The Force Unleashed II. Personally, I like Niman with the Jar'kai technique even when the Starkiller clone didn't change his style to include a double-bladed lightsaber form. (Another thing I would like to do myself)
Connor, one of the main reasons that actual dual blade practitioners use a shorter blade for their "off" hand is that the shorter blade allows both blades to maneuver more easily without getting in each others way. If you should doubt check some films on TH-cam of HEMA dual blade practitioners. Great video, I have seen your earlier presentation of the forms, this is far more complete. Thank-you, Dante.
Great analysis, dude! Jar'Kai happens to be pretty much my favorite fighting style, next to Makashi. Another weakness to the style, according to Darth Maul in _Lockdown,_ was its predictability. Given that Sidious had taught him Jar'Kai, as well as Darth Plagueis calling Maul a _master_ of it, it would all make sense. Once it's been drilled into you time and time again, you'll know what to expect.
The two main modernized jedi lightsaber teachings of Jar'Kai are (if implemented) in Ataru and Niman. The latter being the much more frequent. What is the difference between these two? Both in long explanations and in a short answer! If supposedly only seeing people using Ataru and Niman variants, how can you recognize them? My guess is perhaps: Ataru : being more kinetic and acrobatic Niman : revolving around tricky attacks and strange erratic movements
Short Answer: Ataru is speed, attack-attack-attack with flips, spins, punches and kicks. Niman is moderation between a relaxed lightsaber technique and force powers. Long Answer: While Ataru and Niman both have a dedicated dual wielding (Jar'Kai) implement, the two styles are completely different. Ataru is an offensive, fast-paced and acrobatic style that makes use of the fighter's entire body as a weapon, not just the lightsaber. An Ataru duelist will use fast and wide saber strikes along with jumps, flips and spins to fight around an opponent, attacking from all angles, while allowing the Force to flow through them to give them superhuman speed, strength and reflexes. Also, Ataru specialist tend to be good unarmed combatants, since Ataru is about using the whole body as a weapon, and they will incorporate punches, kicks and grabs into their fighting. Niman was all about taking the first five lightsaber styles and putting them into one style. Giving the duelist the advantage of having all the former styles strengths and tactics while having none of the obvious weaknesses. But, because trying to master all lightsaber forms at one time is overly difficult and time consuming, taking ten years just to be considered a proper specialist with the form, Niman employs much more relaxed blade skill. So an average Niman duelist would be only moderately skilled in the first five lightsaber styles, a jack of all trades, but master of none. However, to make up for relaxed blade skill, Niman users train to use Force abilities while in combat (which is considered difficult) to make up the difference, using pushes and pulls to manipulate the environment and their opponents.
Ah man yet again a person on the internet missed the point!!!!!!!! He was asking for the description of how JAR'KAI would look different in the two forms!
If she was good with 1 blade Anakin wouldn't have seen the need of giving her a second blade. Her blast deflection was spotty as demonstrated by Aura sing.
I wonder how well a Djem So/Soresu variant would work? Maybe train one at a time, form 5 in the main hand and form 3 in the off hand, before putting them together.
Great video!!! Only a little longer until this stupid copyright strike is over! I can't wait to see your re uploaded videos and your new videos that will come out after the strike ends.
Two standard length Lightsabers or one lightsaber and one shoto? Which would you choose? Both weapon sets have their uses (the shorter shoto would be great in confined spaces but having two the same length looks cool). Is it specified if the Royale Macheteros used the longsword and short sword method of dual blade fencing? Or did they use same length swords? I only ask because I wondered where the Jedi Order got the idea for using the shoto in the off-hand.
One question, to anyone with an answer: how widespread was Jar'Kai practiced as a martial art? I only ask because I'm currently reading the Starfighters of Adumar book from the X-Wing series. It had this excerpt where these two characters were dueling with two blastswords, one longer than the other. Since Adumar had been colonized ten thousand years prior, I wondered if said colonists picked up the style, maybe from the Jedi?
Also I wonder, is there an origin of the *technique* of *saberstaff* fighting? Just like how Jar'Kai is the technique of using two sabers? I know the zabrak Zhaboka staff was the basis for the adaptation, but clearly it requires it's separate technique, just like the difference between a metal sword and a lightsaber, where the latter requires teachings in Shii-Cho. Later the sith created the first saberstaff, then the jedi adopted it from the sith. Is there a name to the technique?
Arnis / Filipino Martial Arts practicioner here. This kind of form fascinates me because it's similar to our own "doble baston". And the way being adept at dual weapons is in-line with being good at unarmed combat. 😀
Gosh bc of these videos I can't decide which form is my favorite, I mean if I was a jedi I'd have to hope to live long enough to master them all. Darach is one of my favorite Jedi fasho!
It is worth noting that in Shatterpoint Mace Windu used a dual blade variant of Vaapad. Although it is not stated if this was a Vaapad application of Jar'kai or if Vaapad it self can be used with two blades on its own
Im a defence duel saber fighter when i fight with my friends they are classed as sith i am gray jedi but as they attack they are aggressive and strong so i needed a form to take on both guys but still be able to defend so i let them pit of against each other and I noticed that they get tired easy so i thought what if i could fight till they get tired and then go for the killing blow so i researched sabre techniques and obi-wan and darth maul with his brothers fight came up and i was like oh yh i remember this so i did what he did in a way they attacked me and i just defended it all not letting them stay put at all i was always moving and blocking one after the other then one started to get tired so i "killed him with one quick blow" and the other attacked with quite the blow and knocked one of my sabers out of my hand so i knew this might happen so i learned with one saber too and he got tired so i "killed him with a slice across the neck and ever since then they both can never beat me and it frustrates them and i just find it funny 😂
All undermined when you see a lightsaber sequence where an "X-Block" is used and/or both sabers are swung simultaneously along the same trajectory at the same target and multiple instances of crossed blades and pretzeled arms. All that before you get to the reverse grip shit.
I really wish lightsaber fights were a bit more realistic and borrowed more from real world swordsmanship techniques. All the spinning attacks and shit look so ridiculous .
They would be short, brutal and without flourish. Prevailing thinking there is the audience would not like it. I imagine the Ataru stuff would be the first casualty followed by Shi Cho and it's wide sweeping movements.
AKlover They don't need to be 100 percent realistic, but it shouldn't look over choreographed or "dance-like". Cut the spinning, constant jumping, and perfect choreography and add in more quick thrusts and actual footwork/dodging.
Somehwat. Some people argue it would look like Kendo, which would not be the case. Kendo isnt applicable in actual fighting, striking your oppknents arm in 0.5sec is useless when his lightsaber would contine its movement and cur your head off. Same for competetive fencing. It would probably evolve into something more like Makashi, with longer periods of defensive positions with more stab like attacks to kill you opponent instantly.
Excellent video, one thing I did not understand though, using a shoto prevents one blade from locking away the other, but aren't you sacrificing a lot of reach with that ? In that case, the shoto could only be used in melee for close to the body maneuvers , meaning you can attack less with it. At that point, most of your attacks would come from the standard lightsaber, nullifying the multi attack advantages of the style. Therefore , wouldn't it be easier to use two standard lightsabers with a dual phase mode to go between standard length and shoto length ?
In most martial arts when using dual wielding one of the weapons is usually used almost exclusively for defense and the other for attack (that's why normally it is better to just use a sword and a shield and not two swords), however as you say the shorter blade is excellent for close combat, though with lightsaber this is a lesser issue since the blades are retractable (and cut through most things) and the difference of weight between the hilts is not significant. I agree that the better option would be to use dual phase lightsabers, adjusting the lenght for better defense and surprise attacks, but I don't believe that attacking with both blades at the same time is advisable since it leaves quite a big opening and you sacrifice strenght and accuracy by limiting the movement of your hips.
Anton Corriente Yup, shields are the best approach. Imperial Knights, as well as Jedi Master Micah Giiet increased their survivability tremendously by simply using cortosis vambraces. Darth Desolus' utilization of a shield gave him such a massive advantage, he killed scores of Jedi and he was only stopped by the combined might of all members of the High Council. Kyle Katarn was rumored to be immortal, but all he had was a personal energy shield and some backup power cells. In the hyper precise world of lightsaber combat, even the smallest edge can have tremendous results.
Pierce Wise Not usually, Jedi see shields as tools of warriors, not peacekeepers. Sith either have the hubris to believe that they can beat an opponent without the need of such a cowardly tactic or, in the case of Darth Bane's line, they forego them for their difficulty to conceal. The examples I previously presented are of Force users who achieved great success by taking a different approach.
I know its come up many times but I just considered could grievous have had some training in Juyo "...each of the twelve strikes came from a different angle with a different speed and intensity and unpredictably broken rhythm of slashes chops and stabs..." because isn't that part of juyo unpredictability and staccato attacks, instead of say flowing. He may have even taken a few queues from the mindset of it, taunting in battle laughing, and enjoying the fight.
Niman is a separate style to Jar Kai U also showed form 1 shii Cho Niman is a combination of the 1st 5 forms in unison with the Force. Niman also displays an even defense and offense.
I challenge you to do a video series about all different Lightsaber Variants in a similar style to these videos. Please? I think it'd be really awesome.
Excellent, overview Jensaarai :) I have a question: in your view, do you think Jar'Kai practitioners have a disadvantage in terms of being able to properly channel their strength in power blows, as opposed to those who wield single sabers? It would make sense as generally with a sword, having two hands on a blade and slashing down or up, you can exert more strength.
Tho I am not Jensaari I would have to say that someone who wields a single saber will usually have better power attacks as they are able to bring their full strength and weight to bear vs someone with dual sabers which would probably have their strength halved.
Pierce Wise That makes sense, considering the power behind such blows is being bolstered by both arms. It makes me wonder, though. Can Jar'Kai Lightsaber combatants do well against power duelists? I ask this because I remember the Clone Wars microseries and Asaji's fight against Anakin. Though, I admit Anakin is a very powerful Lightsaber combatant, especially with his Djem so attacks.
Well we've seen Malgus use a form of Jar Kai once and he has a lot of strength tho there was no technique. For me the only way I see a jar kai beating a power based duelist is by compensating with speed. If we're talking blows of power...its just not happening I wouldn't think
Pierce Wise Oh, yeah. I forgot about Malgus. When you mean speed, as in avoiding most of the power blows due to not being able to mount a strong enough defense against said attacks?
10:55 I feel this is kind of reductive. Ahsoka's style is more of a Ataru/Shien mix than simply Shien-based Jar'Kai. Then in TCW Season 7 and Rebels, we see that she has changed into either Ataru-based only, or Niman-based by the time of Rebels.
I must say, if I were a Jedi Padawan, the concept of dual blades is very enticing to learn and specialise in. After learning the basics of Shii Cho, I would likely take up 'diplomats Niman' as a gateway to a hybridised variant of Jar'Kai. My other main specialisations from there would be Makashi, Ataru and Shien. In a 1-vs-1 situation, Makashi and Ataru are designed specifically for this kind of battle. Shien is designed with blaster deflection in mind, a Jar'Kai variant would be extremely effective on a battlefield against droids. All in all, this would make me a flexible, powerful user of Jar'Kai.
jar kai is a personal favorite of mine, but after learning shii cho, I would study niman for ten years, then take pieces from the other forms and revolve them around it, only using jar kai if necessary.
Well... 'diplomat's Jar'Kai' is about learning LESS of lightsaber combat, so would decrease your saber proficiency! What you need is 'melee trickster Niman' as I like calling it sometimes. That alone is the Niman which is a gateway to physical saber combat versatility. Revan was like an odd rarity. He was probably using "melee trickster" and "force user" variants but in simplicistic ways because already on a path of Niman, he might have been more of a battlefield knight, than a dueling one.
Can you do another one of these focusing on Saberstaff and/or Light pike combat. I say both these as they have their similarities. I'd love to see one for the Saberstaff as it is such a unique combat style in itself, especial when combined with the various Lightsaber forms and I'd say the same for Light pikes as well.
since form 1 and 6 are standard I learning, I could learn form 2,3 and 4 with no problem, and also make my own form 7 like Windo did since I would use my emotion's in battle Jar'Kai will be what I use as a standard since I like dual wielding, though I would have my lightsaber's able to attach at its end's so I get a duel edge lightsaber for armor, I would be light, but still sturdy, like boot's, arm armor, a chest plate, and light clothing I plan to use speed over power to overtake my enemies
any hardcore SW lore porfessor here? something about dual wielding I just don't understand. it is obviously dangerous and difficult, I get this part. Only the most talented jedi can handle it well enough. And we can see SOME scenes in the movies, where these talented jedi use dual wielding. the question: why don't they use it all the time?? If you are not good enough, you don't risk it. But if you are good enough (like those happy few in those few scenes), why do you use it only once in a blue moon? Like ,f.e, Kit Fisto in the scene included in this video: during the fight, he gets another blade and starts jar'kai immediatey so he definitely wanst another blade. he uses it because he finds himself more effective with 2 blades. then why didn't he have 2 blades as default setings? thanx
The example you gave (Kit Fisto) can be deemed a situational use of the style. It wasn't any lightsaber that he took from Grievous, it was the lightsaber of his former Padawan Nahdar Vebb who Grievous had recently killed. I don't think Fisto was going to let his old student's lightsaber become another one of Grievous' trophies. I agree with your sentiment that he should have carried on using it since he should sufficent skill in wielding two blades. A'Sharad Hett actively took up the Jar'Kai style after inheriting his father's lightsaber and rather choose between that weapon and the one he had already constructed himself he used both in combat. Even as Darth Krayt he still used two lightsabers.
ok 2 questions spring to mind from this video. the first comes from Jen describing Exar Kuns weapon....... what exactly was Vaders armour made from? because im sure its been described as being layered with dura-steel, i ask because Vaders armour is said to be able to withstand light hits from a saber but a blade at full strength has been described in this video as being able to cut through it with no resistance. 2, in differant versus series video's involving Starkiller/Merrik, there seems to be some variation in his forms, so what exactly was what exactly did he use Jar'Kai variants of? as he's been credited with Shii cho, Soresu, Ataru, Shien, Niman and Juyo in differant videos
Galen Marek generally used Shien as the backbone of a hybridised style that incorporated elements of Soresu, Ataru, Niman and Juyo. He also displayed experience with Jar'Kai. Starkiller clone almost exclusively used Jar'Kai with elements of Ataru, Niman and Juyo.
Could Jar'Kai be applied in conjunction with Teras Kasi, since Teras Kasi has been described as acrobatic in its techniques, similar to the Jedi Ataru Form? Looking forward to the next video
Darth Maul demonstrated this application with the Saberstaff in his duel against Obi Wan and Qui Gon at the end of The Phantom Menace. He was able to dodge many incoming attacks and landed multiple punches and kicks to both his opponents.
Yes... Ataru dual wielding is very fast paced and acrobatic. While Niman's dual wielding is more about versatility of styles mixing and merging the previous forms to create a web of intricate attacks and defence techniques
I guess i use the stance with my sword in front for blocking and the other above me. Ready to slash. I use it in my swords and shields class sometimes.(real life)
Is I was to use duel wield lightsabers I would make them duel phased as well carry a third lightsader (also dual phased) just in cast I lost one in a fight as well as good skill in soresu so if I lost two of my lighrsabers in a fight and only had one on my I can buy some time so I can get on back (most likely by the forces) and carry on using dual lightsader style.
This video may be old but I just created a new style to using this form with a curved lightsaber similar to Count Dooku and a lightsaber Shoto but here's the kicker the curb lightsaber should be used as the reach to make the distance and to do the stabs while the show till once you get clothes you can do the quick stab or the disablement of the opponent that is how I use it that's how when every duel
My understanding it that due to the strength oriented bladework of Dejm So, it requires strength augmentation that is usually beyond most force users since they develop strength, speed, endurance and other kinds of augmentation with physical augmentation. So they don't develop strength augmentation enough to compensate for the difficulty of power blows with only one hand. It's possible, but by that point, one becomes a muscle juggernaut. Darth Malgus is already heavily muscled by then and then his strength in the force is terrifying so he could make up the difference. So it's possible to do so, however the logistics and conditions to be met are so difficult you may as well perfect a standard blade or branch into a saber staff, but Jar'Kai? I'd recommend against it for most.
She dual wielded her regular and a shoto blade in TCW Season 3 onward and in her appearances in Star Wars rebels. She uses ataru, but as jensaarai stated, a jar kai application of ataru
Hey quick question, I'm creating a character for an Rp who's a Kushiban and I found that a full length lightsaber is a major defensive advantage since the opponent has to lower his blade and then get past the full length of the lightsaber. Since this is a rather major advantage why do so many shorter species use a Shoto? While it would be easier to use you are losing a rather giant length advantage that would probably make up for that loss of control.
Also forgot to mention that using a lightsaber the size of yourself would be like using a Zweihander. Loss of control on the blade would be minimal and more of a disadvantage in enclosed areas.
Well, if you're short already, you're likely to lose most battles of strength anyway, alone because of the reach advantage of the opponent. So it's better to focus on speed and agility rather than strength. A shorter weapon allows for much greater speed in your attacks, as well as for greater control of the blade. So your hits might be half as powerful as your opponents, but for every one of his hits you'll get in two. And the reach advantage of a normal lightsaber can turn into a disadvantage really fast once your opponent gets in close; Something which is likely if your opponent is much more agile and faster than you. It's a mentality of building on your strengths rather than trying to even out your weaknesses.
Not necessarily. Ultimately a sword duel comes down to the skill of the fighters. If you put a novice fencer against a master samurai, both with their typical weapons. The samurai would take a sec to figure out his opponent but ultimately have no problem beating him. However once you put their skill level on equal footing, thats when the pros and cons of a style become relevant. Fencing is designed for one on one dueling and the rapier provides reach and is optimized for a fencers style. Whereas a Katana is both a battlefield weapon and a dueling sword so it is competent in both, but doesn't excel. In the case of your question, some of the cons are nature of the beast issues, you'll have a huge problem dealing with strength blows because of physics, not because of a fault of the form. You could compensate through heavy strength training, but by the time you overcame it, you may as well use Dejm So since you're a muscle tank now and it takes better advantage of your new strength. In the case of dual blades, the main problem is that there are two blades to keep track of. So it takes more time learning how to use them in the first place since you need to learn more than the basics of just one blade. You have to learn to keep track of them at all times while fighting. This can be overcome by training but precision and power blows usually aren't viable. But most opponents will have the same problem, keeping track of both blades. In a staff. the problem is that in order to move it, it requires more full body moves requiring commitment even if you see that you've been tricked. This can be mitigated, but not entirely removed. So to answer your question, if one were to make as many of the cons into pros, or less of a con, they would be incredibly difficult to fight due to their extra options in combat. However if they run across someone who knows Jar' Kai and how to counter it, they would be dead. This would also be true if they ran across someone stronger in the force who could make lightsaber dueling a non-issue or is simple a better swordsmen than they are. Hope that wasn't too long for you and that you enjoyed.
Ataru and ("melee trickster" variation) Niman are only gateway forms to start using Jar'Kai. Real Jar'Kai masters go a few steps further and showcase Jar'Kai influenced by other forms, like: Shii-Cho/Kit Fisto (occasional); Makashi/Assaj Ventress (crude but effective); Soresu/Komari Vosa; Ataru/Obi-Wan Kenobi (gateway); Shien/Ashoka Tano (perfected); Djem-So/Darth Malgus (occasional); Niman/Kao-Cen Darach (incidental), Revan (gateway trickster and forceuser), Darth Krayt (extreme devotion); Juyo/Darth Maul (occasional), Darth Sidious (occasional); Vapaad/Sora Bulq (questionable).
@@brenntantor1634 I don't believe Ahsoka to be a complete Shien only Jar'Kai practitioner. She still uses a lot of the acrobatics and flashy flurries of Ataru, so she's more of a Ataru/Shien hybrid practitioner of Jar'Kai. Things are further complicated by TCW Season 7 and Rebels, where she used Ataru-based Jar'Kai only against Maul, and in Rebels she was pretty much Niman-based.
Tho it isn't apart of the traditional forms(main 7)... I don't hate the form. But as someone who prefers a two handed grip this isn't the right form for me. Weak power attacks and you truly can't block or stonewall attacks which is something I'd prefer to do,dual wielding just takes this all away from me
It’s funny that Dooku was decapitated with 2 blades then. How ironic
What's most ironic is that one of the two blades that killed him was his own. I bet he was humiliated when he saw his lightsaber used as some off hand weapon
"It's like poetry. It rhymes."
He could save others from multiple bladed deaths... but not himself
*IRONIC*
“ironic.” -Palpatine, Episode III: Revenge of the Sith
Isn´t it a bit weird that even when Dooku despises so much the use of two lightsabers and saberstaffs nearly all of his apprentices use them? Except for Qui-Gon they all do, at least the ones I know of: Grievous, Ventress, Savage Opress...
Are they trying to piss him off or something?
Savage used dual blades as a way to show respect for his heritage, the Zhaboka is a traditional Zabrak weapon which possesses dual blades. Ventress was originally trained in single bladed combat, but she wields two blades as a tribute to Ky Narec, so she may strike at the Jedi with both their blades, tear them apart with the rage of both a master and apprentice who were abandoned by the Order. Dooku encouraged each student to customize their form, Grievous' path to his was quad blade wielding, allowing him to utilize the unnatural levels of speed, power and precision his cybernetics afforded him, combining them into a style that overwhelmed with sheer number of attacks and intimidated with the unfamiliar bladework. The overwhelming assault ended battles swiftly, further fortifying the fear tactics Dooku always taught him to use. In his own way, Grievous was applying and honoring his instructor.
Interesting. I'm still not completely sold on the whole not really using their master's style (except for maybe Ventress up to a certain extent) but I guess their physical attributes also come into play, and except for Ventress and Qui-Gonn, the rest were too bulky for fancy swordplay...
Anton Corriente That depends more on flexibility and precision, Force Speed can be used to compensate for natural movement speed, for example, Darth Bane was bulky, but could outpace the much lighter Darth Zannah. In addition, Grievous (in the Clone Wars micro series) could move even faster than Jedi Masters from the High Council specializing in lightsaber combat (Ki-Adi-Mundi and Shaak Ti). My guess is that, while Dooku heavily favored one handed Makashi, so long as the students customized whichever approach to best fit their needs and was diligent, he would prize their dedication to a single approach over his distaste for the methods and continue to instruct them on their path , since he had a lot of knowledge on every style (so as to best deconstruct them and best tailor his Makashi approach to neutralize them).
It is unusual, but it also has a lot of symbolism. Dooku's best student was Qui-Gon Jinn, while Ventress, Komari Vosa, and Grevious were never as complete or dedicated as Jinn was. Jinn was only one of two apprentices that Dooku was confirmed to have trained as a Jedi, and was his greatest student. However, he also shared some similarities with the other three: a maverick streak.
Jar'kai is rare, and this difference from more common methods gave it's practitioners an advantage over people who barely encountered it, similar to the Saber-staff. KaiserAfini was right that Opress' weapon was closely related to Zabraki traditional weapons, and carried some cultural significance.
While General Grievous was a cyborg, and using only one weapon with his standard strength would several restrict his combative speed and waste his cybernetic strength. He needed both to be able to contend with master Jedi swordsman, and Jedi Counsil masters. Also, the Intergalactic Banking Clan created Grievous' mechanical body with no input from Dooku. So they designed his combat options according to their perceptions of how to kill Jedi: with mechanical strength and speed used with four arms to overwhelm them, similar to using continuous and beyond overwhelming barrages of blaster-fire from every possible angle to kill Jedi. It would be wasteful to not make use of what he had, so Grievous made use of everything he had, just like being ready to cut and run if he was defeated.
Ventures also learned the basics of Jar-kai before becoming Dooku's apprentice. And he gave her a new set of lightsabers when she joined his cause. This was a skill she was unwilling to drop, so instead of waste time beating it out of her, Dooku decided to work with what he had and trained her to use them in Mavashi-Style Jar-kai.
Komari Vosa likely adapted Jar-kai because she was following one of the tenants of master-level Makashi: develop unique moves and options to avoid predictability. duel-blades as standard weapons was rare, and pairing them with makashi was even rarer. This difference made her stand as unique, although it contradicted Dooku's private preferences.
Qui-GOn was Dooku's best student, and the only one who ever became a successful master in his own right. Unlike the other four, Qui-Gon took Dooku's lessons deeper to heart, becoming a "maverick who was different for the sake of being different."(Jensaari, Qui-Gon Jinn vs. Ven Zallow)This was truly for his philosophy, political views, and fighting-style (heavily revising a personalized Ataru that was superior to the classical variant in very way). Instead of using specific weapons to reflect this maverick streak, he used the standard lightsaber and applied it to different elements of his skills and perspectives.
Qui-Gon followed Dooku's teachings closest to heart, and he was the Count's greatest legacy and greatest pride. It was Jinn's death and the Council's refusal to investigate it further that influenced him to take a leave of absence form the Order, and was manipulated by Darth Sidious into making Dooku his apprentice. Ventures, Grievous, Vosa, and Opress followed different roads, and were all failures or tools that were used a discarded. They all used some various of Jar-kai, while Qui-Gon used the conventional and practical.
Antón B. Corriente López
Ventress used two because of Komari Vosa...oh wait she was Dookus apprentice too :/
I read that Mace Windu had actually once employed Jar'Kai with his Vaapad style. It kinda sucks that we never got to see a live combat Vaapad variant of Jar'Kai.
Agreed.
I find it interesting that there are different versions of Jar-Kai... The Shien variant used by Ahsoka. The Makashi variant used by Ventress. And of course the Juyo variant used by Darth Maul and Palpatine in The Clone Wars. As well as the Ataru variant briefly used by Anakin in Episode 2. Can basically any style translate into some kind of Jar-Kai variant?
Basically yes. Jair Kai can be used in any Saber form. Darth Zannah used form 3 Soresu with a Saber staff
Saying Ahsoka only used Shien-based Jar'Kai is kind of reductive. Her style was more of an Ataru/Shien mix Jar'kai, and in TCW Season 7 and Rebels, she pretty much shifted into only Ataru-based , if not Niman-based.
Yes, but there are definite trade offs to using Jar'Kai depending on the form you're using. That's why its generally associated with forms 4 and 6. Because those forms are most adaptable to Jar'Kai.
@@bozoboardmanI’d argue Makashi is good for Jar’Kai
It doesn’t make since to be able to use it with djem sho in my opinion
YO.... Jensarri1.... its official.
You have the BEST lightsaber info on the web.
Music, info,clips, and star wars history!
I give your Vids 5/5 Sith lightning's lol ⚡⚡⚡⚡⚡
So, based on how Jar'Kai is described, it's basically the Star Wars version of Eskrima/Kali. Does that sound about right?
Yes.
I’d like to hear that answer from an Eskrima or Kali master.
Most certainly Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) employs two blades
but sometimes one blade is dagger sized while the other is Machete sized.
FMA can also employ single blade with an active empty hand very effectively.
We don’t really have good descriptions or instruction manuals of the
fictional blade wielding martial are of Jar’Kai but from the little I know of FMA
it is very complex and would not leave an accomplished combatant severely
disadvantaged if he were to lose a blade.
@@Johncalonso I'm a practitioner not a Master but yes.. in FMA.. we have Solo Baston (one stick), Doble Baston (two sticks) and Espada y Daga (Sword with Dagger/Knife)
Also pay attention to how the use of the free hand is described in Niman, actively striking and grabbing, often with the force, in a way that is actively being integrated with the flow of combat, that's textbook FMA.
Kali doesn't use strikes just cuts so your half right. Most modern ancient swordsmen rarely use both strikes and weapons.
Will you cover the other known strange combat styles?
Teras Kasi? (perhaps implemented into Ataru and Vapaad)
Form Zero?
Sokan?
Mounted Lightsaber Combat?
Telekinetic Lightsaber Combat?
Trákata?
Dun-Möch? (And Reverse Dun-Möch)
And most importantly *Trispzest*? Which could be the next logical step after discussing Jar'Kai.
I do hope so!
:)
Brenn Tantor I hope so too
Dun moch is not a lightsaber form it's more like a show off to a lesser adversary to intimidate them with other either superior lightsaber skills , show boating of more impressive force ability's or just the physical intimidation
Neither is Jar'kai. Jar'kai is the blanket term fr all dual-wielding styles. One can dual-wield Ataru, Niman, Juyo (making some sacrifices), Makashi (making some sacrifices), Shiii-Cho, and maybe Soresu.
So in a short answer, yeah. :D
Well you focused on Dun-Möch not being directly a saber style, while you forgot to notice Teras Kasi...
Teras Kasi is mostly unarmed melee fightning, mostly not used during lightsaber combat, except when physical strikes are implemented into swordplay (Ataru, Vapaad).
Where as Dun-Möch is just psychological taunting, yet invented to be during lightsaber combat!!
Or a much better question:
Instead of just attacking with the mainhand and defending with the offhand...
What would happen if a "battle master" with two sabers designated one lightsaber style for each lightsaber?
Like using the mainhand saber like a Juyo main backbone, and using the offhand saber as a Makashi supplement?
What if he could effortlessly switch between styles for both hands during a duel or a battle?
What styles would an Ataru centric person and a Niman type choose?
How would Pong Krell, Sora Bulq, or Kao Cen Darach's styles change due to this new idea?
So basically...
Form I was created from various sword based martial arts that predated the emergence of lightsabers.
Form II was likewise based upon ancient fencing schools but adapted to take into account the unique properties of a lightsaber's blade.
Form III evolved from basic Form I blast deflection training and refined into the ultimate art of passive defence.
Form IV (as you theorised) is one of the Forms derived from the ancient Niman/Jar'Kai in which mobility and use of the entire body as a weapon compensates for the lack of strength to effectively block a more powerful opponent.
Form V evolved from Form III but was more aggressive in a bid to avoid prolonging a conflict without sacrificing defence.
Form VI also derived from ancient Niman/Jar'Kai except that unlike Form IV's focus on aggressive mobility and reliability on constant momentum to drive power into its attacks, Form VI blended elements of all previous styles essentially completing the circle of combat that began with Form I and the ancient dual blade Niman/Jar'Kai styles.
Form VII I view as a Sith martial art adopted and later adapted by the Jedi Order during and after the Great Hyperspace War in 5,000 BBY.
Aww yeahhh giving starkiller his due credit
Are you also planning on making a video that explains all of the other techniques that aren't lightsaber forms, like the Marks of Contact?
Hope so, maybe he will expand on telekinetic lightsaber combat or deconstruct Faalo's cadences, those are really cool topics that are not often analyzed.
The way I tell Jar'Kai and Niman's dual-wielding portion apart is like this: For Niman, you have a full-length blade in your main hand, and a shorter blade in your off-hand. For Jar'Kai, you have a full-length blade in EACH hand.
Well anything dual wielding is considered Jar Kai its just the matter of lightsaber and techniques that you use to make them different.... I think
this channel is a hidden gem of Star Wars lore; my apologies for taking so long to find you….couldn’t ever vocalize or in-vision the lore behind dual-wielding lightsabers & i got exactly what i wanted…much better than making a reddit post. THANK YOU 🙏🏿🖤
(Ive said this so many times now) But this is another excellent breakdown of lightsaber martial arts. A wide variety of history and sourcing allowing one to give an objective breakdown, but still able to add their own additional pieces of insight. The only thing I disagree with is that Exar Kun=Grevious due to the logistics of their physiology and weaponry. But that's a pretty minor problem. A shame their was no mention of Darth Krayt though.
Rob George
Krayt only really used it 50% of the time and I suppose there is more swordsmen and swordswoman who have better Dipictions of Jar'Kai in the starwars EU mythos.
But I would expect him to be mentioned more...
Jar’kai could be applied masterfully to Forms 1 3 4 5 6 and 7. However a way to use it with Makashi is to use force telekinesis to use 1 or more blades while using 1 hand to grip the lightsaber and the off hand to use force attacks. The off handed blades would break your opponents center while the duelist attacking with speed and precision targets the vulnerable spots. This form 2 jar’kai variant allows the practitioner not to become enslaved to technique or easily overpowered both weaknesses of Makashi.
The last two minutes of this were absolute gold.
Halo music with Star Wars lore? YES PLEASE!
Threw me off for a sec. glad I’m not the only one who noticed
Now I'm praying a Trakata video is in the works.
He probably won't, as Trakata is a very uncommon tactic.
We have the first practitioner of Trakata in the Disney canon btw, Cal Kestis from Jedi Fallen Order.
@@NerdNation-xj6um Tell that to Cal Kestis.
This is my favorite technique as I can be adaptable to every situation. Also like Starkiller clone, I would utilize both ataru and Niman forms in conjunction to the Jar' Kai technique.
Starkiller used form 3 and form v Sith Shien
His clone...used form 6 mixed with some Jar 'Kai
@danielcooke3800 that is understandable as the original one used one lightsaber in the first one before Galen Marek was cloned in The Force Unleashed II. Personally, I like Niman with the Jar'kai technique even when the Starkiller clone didn't change his style to include a double-bladed lightsaber form. (Another thing I would like to do myself)
Connor, one of the main reasons that actual dual blade practitioners use a shorter blade for their "off" hand is that the shorter blade allows both blades to maneuver more easily without getting in each others way. If you should doubt check some films on TH-cam of HEMA dual blade practitioners. Great video, I have seen your earlier presentation of the forms, this is far more complete. Thank-you, Dante.
I absolutely LOVE this series you've done, Jensaarai. Thanks!
Great analysis, dude! Jar'Kai happens to be pretty much my favorite fighting style, next to Makashi.
Another weakness to the style, according to Darth Maul in _Lockdown,_ was its predictability. Given that Sidious had taught him Jar'Kai, as well as Darth Plagueis calling Maul a _master_ of it, it would all make sense. Once it's been drilled into you time and time again, you'll know what to expect.
The two main modernized jedi lightsaber teachings of Jar'Kai are (if implemented) in Ataru and Niman. The latter being the much more frequent.
What is the difference between these two? Both in long explanations and in a short answer!
If supposedly only seeing people using Ataru and Niman variants, how can you recognize them?
My guess is perhaps:
Ataru : being more kinetic and acrobatic
Niman : revolving around tricky attacks and strange erratic movements
Short Answer: Ataru is speed, attack-attack-attack with flips, spins, punches and kicks. Niman is moderation between a relaxed lightsaber technique and force powers.
Long Answer: While Ataru and Niman both have a dedicated dual wielding (Jar'Kai) implement, the two styles are completely different.
Ataru is an offensive, fast-paced and acrobatic style that makes use of the fighter's entire body as a weapon, not just the lightsaber. An Ataru duelist will use fast and wide saber strikes along with jumps, flips and spins to fight around an opponent, attacking from all angles, while allowing the Force to flow through them to give them superhuman speed, strength and reflexes. Also, Ataru specialist tend to be good unarmed combatants, since Ataru is about using the whole body as a weapon, and they will incorporate punches, kicks and grabs into their fighting.
Niman was all about taking the first five lightsaber styles and putting them into one style. Giving the duelist the advantage of having all the former styles strengths and tactics while having none of the obvious weaknesses. But, because trying to master all lightsaber forms at one time is overly difficult and time consuming, taking ten years just to be considered a proper specialist with the form, Niman employs much more relaxed blade skill. So an average Niman duelist would be only moderately skilled in the first five lightsaber styles, a jack of all trades, but master of none. However, to make up for relaxed blade skill, Niman users train to use Force abilities while in combat (which is considered difficult) to make up the difference, using pushes and pulls to manipulate the environment and their opponents.
Ah man yet again a person on the internet missed the point!!!!!!!!
He was asking for the description of how JAR'KAI would look different in the two forms!
the Jar Kai practitioner that uses both Ataru and Niman is a frequent user of the shien reverse grip. GODDAMMIT!
Well done, as usual. Good to hear from you, again.
At last thank you for the due mention of Starkiller's mastery.
Ahsoka was good with one lightsaber for some time before adopting her shoto so she didn’t have a problem if she lost one blade
If she was good with 1 blade Anakin wouldn't have seen the need of giving her a second blade. Her blast deflection was spotty as demonstrated by Aura sing.
I actually wouldn't mind knowing more about the different Forms application of Jar'Kai and the analysis of each of them
I wonder how well a Djem So/Soresu variant would work? Maybe train one at a time, form 5 in the main hand and form 3 in the off hand, before putting them together.
Great video!!! Only a little longer until this stupid copyright strike is over! I can't wait to see your re uploaded videos and your new videos that will come out after the strike ends.
Two standard length Lightsabers or one lightsaber and one shoto? Which would you choose? Both weapon sets have their uses (the shorter shoto would be great in confined spaces but having two the same length looks cool). Is it specified if the Royale Macheteros used the longsword and short sword method of dual blade fencing? Or did they use same length swords? I only ask because I wondered where the Jedi Order got the idea for using the shoto in the off-hand.
I really love this videos, they are excelent analysis of the lightsaber forms. Please, do a Teras Kasi video as well!
One question, to anyone with an answer: how widespread was Jar'Kai practiced as a martial art? I only ask because I'm currently reading the Starfighters of Adumar book from the X-Wing series. It had this excerpt where these two characters were dueling with two blastswords, one longer than the other. Since Adumar had been colonized ten thousand years prior, I wondered if said colonists picked up the style, maybe from the Jedi?
Also I wonder, is there an origin of the *technique* of *saberstaff* fighting?
Just like how Jar'Kai is the technique of using two sabers?
I know the zabrak Zhaboka staff was the basis for the adaptation, but clearly it requires it's separate technique, just like the difference between a metal sword and a lightsaber, where the latter requires teachings in Shii-Cho.
Later the sith created the first saberstaff, then the jedi adopted it from the sith.
Is there a name to the technique?
Will you be making a video about the three rings of defense? Also, any plans to use Darth Krayt when the strike expires?
That halo sound track in the background doe>>>>>>>>
Arnis / Filipino Martial Arts practicioner here.
This kind of form fascinates me because it's similar to our own "doble baston". And the way being adept at dual weapons is in-line with being good at unarmed combat. 😀
Your videos are amazing and so informative, they inspired me to buy an ultra saber
Gosh bc of these videos I can't decide which form is my favorite, I mean if I was a jedi I'd have to hope to live long enough to master them all. Darach is one of my favorite Jedi fasho!
It is worth noting that in Shatterpoint Mace Windu used a dual blade variant of Vaapad. Although it is not stated if this was a Vaapad application of Jar'kai or if Vaapad it self can be used with two blades on its own
I'd say this would be Prince Zuko's form, if he was in Star Wars
I was looking for an example of Jar'Kai Soresu. Completely forgot about Vosa!
Im a defence duel saber fighter when i fight with my friends they are classed as sith i am gray jedi but as they attack they are aggressive and strong so i needed a form to take on both guys but still be able to defend so i let them pit of against each other and I noticed that they get tired easy so i thought what if i could fight till they get tired and then go for the killing blow so i researched sabre techniques and obi-wan and darth maul with his brothers fight came up and i was like oh yh i remember this so i did what he did in a way they attacked me and i just defended it all not letting them stay put at all i was always moving and blocking one after the other then one started to get tired so i "killed him with one quick blow" and the other attacked with quite the blow and knocked one of my sabers out of my hand so i knew this might happen so i learned with one saber too and he got tired so i "killed him with a slice across the neck and ever since then they both can never beat me and it frustrates them and i just find it funny 😂
All undermined when you see a lightsaber sequence where an "X-Block" is used and/or both sabers are swung simultaneously along the same trajectory at the same target and multiple instances of crossed blades and pretzeled arms. All that before you get to the reverse grip shit.
I really wish lightsaber fights were a bit more realistic and borrowed more from real world swordsmanship techniques. All the spinning attacks and shit look so ridiculous .
They would be short, brutal and without flourish. Prevailing thinking there is the audience would not like it. I imagine the Ataru stuff would be the first casualty followed by Shi Cho and it's wide sweeping movements.
AKlover They don't need to be 100 percent realistic, but it shouldn't look over choreographed or "dance-like". Cut the spinning, constant jumping, and perfect choreography and add in more quick thrusts and actual footwork/dodging.
Somehwat. Some people argue it would look like Kendo, which would not be the case. Kendo isnt applicable in actual fighting, striking your oppknents arm in 0.5sec is useless when his lightsaber would contine its movement and cur your head off. Same for competetive fencing. It would probably evolve into something more like Makashi, with longer periods of defensive positions with more stab like attacks to kill you opponent instantly.
Excellent video, one thing I did not understand though, using a shoto prevents one blade from locking away the other, but aren't you sacrificing a lot of reach with that ? In that case, the shoto could only be used in melee for close to the body maneuvers , meaning you can attack less with it. At that point, most of your attacks would come from the standard lightsaber, nullifying the multi attack advantages of the style. Therefore , wouldn't it be easier to use two standard lightsabers with a dual phase mode to go between standard length and shoto length ?
In most martial arts when using dual wielding one of the weapons is usually used almost exclusively for defense and the other for attack (that's why normally it is better to just use a sword and a shield and not two swords), however as you say the shorter blade is excellent for close combat, though with lightsaber this is a lesser issue since the blades are retractable (and cut through most things) and the difference of weight between the hilts is not significant.
I agree that the better option would be to use dual phase lightsabers, adjusting the lenght for better defense and surprise attacks, but I don't believe that attacking with both blades at the same time is advisable since it leaves quite a big opening and you sacrifice strenght and accuracy by limiting the movement of your hips.
Anton Corriente Yup, shields are the best approach. Imperial Knights, as well as Jedi Master Micah Giiet increased their survivability tremendously by simply using cortosis vambraces. Darth Desolus' utilization of a shield gave him such a massive advantage, he killed scores of Jedi and he was only stopped by the combined might of all members of the High Council. Kyle Katarn was rumored to be immortal, but all he had was a personal energy shield and some backup power cells. In the hyper precise world of lightsaber combat, even the smallest edge can have tremendous results.
Jedi and Sith used Shields?
Pierce Wise Not usually, Jedi see shields as tools of warriors, not peacekeepers. Sith either have the hubris to believe that they can beat an opponent without the need of such a cowardly tactic or, in the case of Darth Bane's line, they forego them for their difficulty to conceal. The examples I previously presented are of Force users who achieved great success by taking a different approach.
Oh ok thanks... I always wanted to see someone use a shield and lightsaber combo
I know its come up many times but I just considered could grievous have had some training in Juyo "...each of the twelve strikes came from a different angle with a different speed and intensity and unpredictably broken rhythm of slashes chops and stabs..." because isn't that part of juyo unpredictability and staccato attacks, instead of say flowing. He may have even taken a few queues from the mindset of it, taunting in battle laughing, and enjoying the fight.
Niman is a separate style to Jar Kai
U also showed form 1 shii Cho
Niman is a combination of the 1st 5 forms in unison with the Force. Niman also displays an even defense and offense.
Great video. You're doing an amazing job.
The funny thing is: a quarterstaff is used in exactly opposite way :D
I challenge you to do a video series about all different Lightsaber Variants in a similar style to these videos. Please? I think it'd be really awesome.
Excellent, overview Jensaarai :) I have a question: in your view, do you think Jar'Kai practitioners have a disadvantage in terms of being able to properly channel their strength in power blows, as opposed to those who wield single sabers? It would make sense as generally with a sword, having two hands on a blade and slashing down or up, you can exert more strength.
Tho I am not Jensaari I would have to say that someone who wields a single saber will usually have better power attacks as they are able to bring their full strength and weight to bear vs someone with dual sabers which would probably have their strength halved.
Pierce Wise That makes sense, considering the power behind such blows is being bolstered by both arms. It makes me wonder, though. Can Jar'Kai Lightsaber combatants do well against power duelists?
I ask this because I remember the Clone Wars microseries and Asaji's fight against Anakin. Though, I admit Anakin is a very powerful Lightsaber combatant, especially with his Djem so attacks.
Well we've seen Malgus use a form of Jar Kai once and he has a lot of strength tho there was no technique. For me the only way I see a jar kai beating a power based duelist is by compensating with speed. If we're talking blows of power...its just not happening I wouldn't think
Pierce Wise Oh, yeah. I forgot about Malgus. When you mean speed, as in avoiding most of the power blows due to not being able to mount a strong enough defense against said attacks?
When I said speed I was referring to mobility and the speed of attacks via attacking with one saber after the other.
10:55 I feel this is kind of reductive. Ahsoka's style is more of a Ataru/Shien mix than simply Shien-based Jar'Kai. Then in TCW Season 7 and Rebels, we see that she has changed into either Ataru-based only, or Niman-based by the time of Rebels.
i use this one blade to attack one to defend sometimes i go all offense and switch it up to throw off my opponent its a good form
Barriss used a form three variant when she attacked Ahsoka in season five
I must say, if I were a Jedi Padawan, the concept of dual blades is very enticing to learn and specialise in. After learning the basics of Shii Cho, I would likely take up 'diplomats Niman' as a gateway to a hybridised variant of Jar'Kai. My other main specialisations from there would be Makashi, Ataru and Shien. In a 1-vs-1 situation, Makashi and Ataru are designed specifically for this kind of battle. Shien is designed with blaster deflection in mind, a Jar'Kai variant would be extremely effective on a battlefield against droids. All in all, this would make me a flexible, powerful user of Jar'Kai.
jar kai is a personal favorite of mine, but after learning shii cho, I would study niman for ten years, then take pieces from the other forms and revolve them around it, only using jar kai if necessary.
Well... 'diplomat's Jar'Kai' is about learning LESS of lightsaber combat, so would decrease your saber proficiency!
What you need is 'melee trickster Niman' as I like calling it sometimes. That alone is the Niman which is a gateway to physical saber combat versatility.
Revan was like an odd rarity. He was probably using "melee trickster" and "force user" variants but in simplicistic ways because already on a path of Niman, he might have been more of a battlefield knight, than a dueling one.
This was very well done.
Can you do another one of these focusing on Saberstaff and/or Light pike combat. I say both these as they have their similarities. I'd love to see one for the Saberstaff as it is such a unique combat style in itself, especial when combined with the various Lightsaber forms and I'd say the same for Light pikes as well.
Amazing breakdown
okay, who is the Twi lek in the photo that is doing the whirlwind slash
since form 1 and 6 are standard I learning, I could learn form 2,3 and 4 with no problem, and also make my own form 7 like Windo did since I would use my emotion's in battle
Jar'Kai will be what I use as a standard since I like dual wielding, though I would have my lightsaber's able to attach at its end's so I get a duel edge lightsaber
for armor, I would be light, but still sturdy, like boot's, arm armor, a chest plate, and light clothing
I plan to use speed over power to overtake my enemies
Everyone asks about sokan
Basically it is just reading the environment for threats.
Dun Močh is just using taunts to demorilise the opponent.
I know it's probably way too late but can you do a video on the three rings of defense? It's an interesting style that there's rarely any info on it.
any hardcore SW lore porfessor here? something about dual wielding I just don't understand. it is obviously dangerous and difficult, I get this part. Only the most talented jedi can handle it well enough. And we can see SOME scenes in the movies, where these talented jedi use dual wielding. the question: why don't they use it all the time?? If you are not good enough, you don't risk it. But if you are good enough (like those happy few in those few scenes), why do you use it only once in a blue moon? Like ,f.e, Kit Fisto in the scene included in this video: during the fight, he gets another blade and starts jar'kai immediatey so he definitely wanst another blade. he uses it because he finds himself more effective with 2 blades. then why didn't he have 2 blades as default setings?
thanx
The example you gave (Kit Fisto) can be deemed a situational use of the style. It wasn't any lightsaber that he took from Grievous, it was the lightsaber of his former Padawan Nahdar Vebb who Grievous had recently killed. I don't think Fisto was going to let his old student's lightsaber become another one of Grievous' trophies. I agree with your sentiment that he should have carried on using it since he should sufficent skill in wielding two blades.
A'Sharad Hett actively took up the Jar'Kai style after inheriting his father's lightsaber and rather choose between that weapon and the one he had already constructed himself he used both in combat. Even as Darth Krayt he still used two lightsabers.
Excellent work as always!
Any intention on doing more work regarding the Dune universe ?
Great video, very informative!
Love the halo wars music
ok 2 questions spring to mind from this video. the first comes from Jen describing Exar Kuns weapon....... what exactly was Vaders armour made from? because im sure its been described as being layered with dura-steel, i ask because Vaders armour is said to be able to withstand light hits from a saber but a blade at full strength has been described in this video as being able to cut through it with no resistance. 2, in differant versus series video's involving Starkiller/Merrik, there seems to be some variation in his forms, so what exactly was what exactly did he use Jar'Kai variants of? as he's been credited with Shii cho, Soresu, Ataru, Shien, Niman and Juyo in differant videos
Galen Marek generally used Shien as the backbone of a hybridised style that incorporated elements of Soresu, Ataru, Niman and Juyo. He also displayed experience with Jar'Kai. Starkiller clone almost exclusively used Jar'Kai with elements of Ataru, Niman and Juyo.
the starkiller clone took bits and pieces from the forms he practiced and revolved them around shien so he could use the reverse grip
Is there a chance for a analysis on the Tra'kata tactic of lightsaber combat?
Could Jar'Kai be applied in conjunction with Teras Kasi, since Teras Kasi has been described as acrobatic in its techniques, similar to the Jedi Ataru Form? Looking forward to the next video
Darth Maul demonstrated this application with the Saberstaff in his duel against Obi Wan and Qui Gon at the end of The Phantom Menace. He was able to dodge many incoming attacks and landed multiple punches and kicks to both his opponents.
nicely done.
No mention of Boc from Dark forces II? arguably the first example of dual wielding lightsabers.
Exar Kun did it a few years before Jedi Knight came out.
Great video!!Can u do Sokan and Dunmoch.Here's a tough one,Teras Kasi.
That was AWESOME!!!
Is Niman's version of dual blade fencing different from Ataru's?
Slightly. The Ataru-style dual blade technique is basically Ataru with an extra blade. Both variants follow roughly the same routine.
Yes... Ataru dual wielding is very fast paced and acrobatic. While Niman's dual wielding is more about versatility of styles mixing and merging the previous forms to create a web of intricate attacks and defence techniques
+Jensaarai1 I would like to know if Dooku is a better lightsaber dualist than Sidious. (If you answer this that would be awsome).
I guess i use the stance with my sword in front for blocking and the other above me. Ready to slash. I use it in my swords and shields class sometimes.(real life)
Is I was to use duel wield lightsabers I would make them duel phased as well carry a third lightsader (also dual phased) just in cast I lost one in a fight as well as good skill in soresu so if I lost two of my lighrsabers in a fight and only had one on my I can buy some time so I can get on back (most likely by the forces) and carry on using dual lightsader style.
you didn't even talk about Luke Skywalker use of it legends
This video may be old but I just created a new style to using this form with a curved lightsaber similar to Count Dooku and a lightsaber Shoto but here's the kicker the curb lightsaber should be used as the reach to make the distance and to do the stabs while the show till once you get clothes you can do the quick stab or the disablement of the opponent that is how I use it that's how when every duel
jensaarai do you think Dooku can beat grievous in a dual. no force powers allowed only force augmentation
I agree but dooku knows how grievous works, the jedi don't, or not as good as dooku.
Jenseraai what is your opinion on Djem so with dual sabers. Malgus used it pretty effectivelly but to my knoledge he is the only one how used it.
Do you think Anakin could have beat grievous
My understanding it that due to the strength oriented bladework of Dejm So, it requires strength augmentation that is usually beyond most force users since they develop strength, speed, endurance and other kinds of augmentation with physical augmentation. So they don't develop strength augmentation enough to compensate for the difficulty of power blows with only one hand. It's possible, but by that point, one becomes a muscle juggernaut. Darth Malgus is already heavily muscled by then and then his strength in the force is terrifying so he could make up the difference. So it's possible to do so, however the logistics and conditions to be met are so difficult you may as well perfect a standard blade or branch into a saber staff, but Jar'Kai? I'd recommend against it for most.
Mitch O'Brien he cant because he would try to meet griveous head on, which would be suicide
Can u do Luminara unduli vs Shaak ti
I have a book. I surprised it says six sabers?! But how?!
Didn't Ahsoka focus mainky on Ataru? You can see she uses many acrobatics and kicks in her lightsaber form
She dual wielded her regular and a shoto blade in TCW Season 3 onward and in her appearances in Star Wars rebels. She uses ataru, but as jensaarai stated, a jar kai application of ataru
Ahsoka used a hybrid mix of Ataru and Shien, though she delved into Niman in Rebels imo. Think the Starkiller clone from TFU2, but severely nerfed.
Could you do trukata
I honestly feel like this should be at the own form I call it form 8
Hey quick question, I'm creating a character for an Rp who's a Kushiban and I found that a full length lightsaber is a major defensive advantage since the opponent has to lower his blade and then get past the full length of the lightsaber.
Since this is a rather major advantage why do so many shorter species use a Shoto? While it would be easier to use you are losing a rather giant length advantage that would probably make up for that loss of control.
Also forgot to mention that using a lightsaber the size of yourself would be like using a Zweihander. Loss of control on the blade would be minimal and more of a disadvantage in enclosed areas.
Well, if you're short already, you're likely to lose most battles of strength anyway, alone because of the reach advantage of the opponent. So it's better to focus on speed and agility rather than strength. A shorter weapon allows for much greater speed in your attacks, as well as for greater control of the blade. So your hits might be half as powerful as your opponents, but for every one of his hits you'll get in two. And the reach advantage of a normal lightsaber can turn into a disadvantage really fast once your opponent gets in close; Something which is likely if your opponent is much more agile and faster than you.
It's a mentality of building on your strengths rather than trying to even out your weaknesses.
using two blades at once would seem bloody hard
Forms...Left Hand Form II, Right Hand Form V...Style Form VII!!!
Jaryo'MaKai-Shien
I like that halo wars background music😂
I like this one.
I think this and one other would work for me.
Use Ataru with it? Or just use the ataru aspect of niman with it??
Kind of a dumb question, but if one were to work hard around the cons of Jark'Kai & turn them into pros, can such a wielder be "unstoppable"?
Not necessarily. Ultimately a sword duel comes down to the skill of the fighters. If you put a novice fencer against a master samurai, both with their typical weapons. The samurai would take a sec to figure out his opponent but ultimately have no problem beating him. However once you put their skill level on equal footing, thats when the pros and cons of a style become relevant. Fencing is designed for one on one dueling and the rapier provides reach and is optimized for a fencers style. Whereas a Katana is both a battlefield weapon and a dueling sword so it is competent in both, but doesn't excel.
In the case of your question, some of the cons are nature of the beast issues, you'll have a huge problem dealing with strength blows because of physics, not because of a fault of the form. You could compensate through heavy strength training, but by the time you overcame it, you may as well use Dejm So since you're a muscle tank now and it takes better advantage of your new strength.
In the case of dual blades, the main problem is that there are two blades to keep track of. So it takes more time learning how to use them in the first place since you need to learn more than the basics of just one blade. You have to learn to keep track of them at all times while fighting. This can be overcome by training but precision and power blows usually aren't viable. But most opponents will have the same problem, keeping track of both blades.
In a staff. the problem is that in order to move it, it requires more full body moves requiring commitment even if you see that you've been tricked. This can be mitigated, but not entirely removed.
So to answer your question, if one were to make as many of the cons into pros, or less of a con, they would be incredibly difficult to fight due to their extra options in combat. However if they run across someone who knows Jar' Kai and how to counter it, they would be dead. This would also be true if they ran across someone stronger in the force who could make lightsaber dueling a non-issue or is simple a better swordsmen than they are.
Hope that wasn't too long for you and that you enjoyed.
I would use a shien niman variant of Jar'Kai
Jar'kai should be it's own form
5:26 who is that jedi?
Love how I hear halo music
What about Sora Bulq's use of Jar'Kai? Was that that based on Vaapad or Niman?
The popular conclusion is that it was based on Vaapad, but his lack of "mastery of self" made a it regression back to Juyo.
Ataru and ("melee trickster" variation) Niman are only gateway forms to start using Jar'Kai.
Real Jar'Kai masters go a few steps further and showcase Jar'Kai influenced by other forms, like:
Shii-Cho/Kit Fisto (occasional);
Makashi/Assaj Ventress (crude but effective);
Soresu/Komari Vosa;
Ataru/Obi-Wan Kenobi (gateway);
Shien/Ashoka Tano (perfected);
Djem-So/Darth Malgus (occasional);
Niman/Kao-Cen Darach (incidental), Revan (gateway trickster and forceuser), Darth Krayt (extreme devotion);
Juyo/Darth Maul (occasional), Darth Sidious (occasional);
Vapaad/Sora Bulq (questionable).
@@brenntantor1634 I don't believe Ahsoka to be a complete Shien only Jar'Kai practitioner. She still uses a lot of the acrobatics and flashy flurries of Ataru, so she's more of a Ataru/Shien hybrid practitioner of Jar'Kai. Things are further complicated by TCW Season 7 and Rebels, where she used Ataru-based Jar'Kai only against Maul, and in Rebels she was pretty much Niman-based.
Tho it isn't apart of the traditional forms(main 7)... I don't hate the form. But as someone who prefers a two handed grip this isn't the right form for me. Weak power attacks and you truly can't block or stonewall attacks which is something I'd prefer to do,dual wielding just takes this all away from me
lol halo music is a nice touch
of course Dooku would despise Niman