Star Wars D&D - Davvy’s Guide to Saga Edition
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 17 ต.ค. 2024
- Something something overused sand joke.
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Song: Kingdom of Bards - Adrian Von Ziegler
Ah, yes, Darths and Droids.
Death Stars & Dagobahs
Spaceships and Sarlaccs
Nerfherders and Non-Force Users.
Scoundrels and Sabers.
Jedi and Junkers
Davvy basically became Mandalore, The Great, in his pursuit to fight toe to toe with the Jedi
@William Sederberg would you have a black short lightsaber
@@joefall1554 thats actually a adition from clone wars, old lore mandalore had to figth jedi WITHOUT the dark saber, prety metal.
The rule of thumb for this game is “All Jedi or no Jedi.” Since Jedi are stupid powerful it’s easier to balance encounters when you either have a team of the guys or none at all
Or, in some of my games, you can only become force user after level 15. That way, everyone has good set of abilities, and the force users can’t get too OP.
No spoilers but Season 2 of The Mandalorian backs up the all or none premise pretty conclusively. At best I can imagine making or stealing a seperate system from another game to balance things out. Like non force users basically get dozens of one time use items like in the Cypher system while jedi just get their broken force powers and no Cyphers, but that feels clunky.
Yup
While true, if you know how to build your character you can easily beat jedi.
We had a wookiee that could deal over 400 damage in a single swing, no jedi powers needed. He was just that OP.
Unleashed rage, improved crits, and some other skills meant he crit on a nat 15 and dealt 4x the damage when he did. And jedi couldn't block it because they just couldn't roll high enough to do so.
I haven't played or looked at the game but,
Couldn't you just balance out the jedi with other force users on the opposing side? It would lock the force users into battle lest either one allow the other to desimate their team?
last time I was this early davvys sexuality was still in question
Thats a good one
(Slams table) WAIT DAVYS GAY
@@Lazycandle always has been
@@Lazycandle Davy has never been straight, at least the vids I’ve seen
@@Lazycandle yes
I think
"But also like a bad relationship you can cheat!" I'M DYING
I found "Mutants and Masterminds" to be pretty easy to jump to. I love how malleable it is to make into whatever setting you want!
Ah, I see you're a man of Culture as well.
Davvy Chappy: The prequels are unwatchable.
Me: hah. Wuss
Have you played Fantasy Flight's Star Wars RPG? What do you think of it? Been in a campaign for a year and I love it.
Hey there, could you give me a bit of an idea about what to buy for the FFG Core books? Like... Everything core book
FFG and SW5e will also get their own videos. I just grew up on Saga Edition, so it was the one I wanted to talk about first.
@@DavvyChappy please tell me there will be a roundup of the core books that one would need from the FFG books.. I REALLY NEED THEM
Sweeeet FFG!
@@Tizzandor try amazon or your flgs beyond that I'm not sute
Me bored:
Davvy Chappy: Hello there.
Oh Saga. Some of my favourite rpg memories come from this game along with my second favorite ever character, the jedi wrestler. He wasn't supposed to be, he was supposed to be a a consular diplomat focussing on disarming enemies and either talking them down or dissabling them in fights. He ended up as prety much a jedi lucha libre, and since he was a Kel Dor he even had a mask.
You're not alone Davvy. The entire Mandalorian culture as I understand it spent at least centuries trying to figure out how to fight Jedi and still struggling.
I already have a character idea: Mandalorian who is immune to Jedi mind tricks. Maybe untrained force-user as well. Now to see how to make my pre-made OC I like to try fitting into every system.
Still waiting on the following
Cyberpunk
Starfinder
Traveller
Any *Sci-fi* TTRPG
Yeah, I like Starfinder a lot but I don't like the way gadgets and items are presented. I'm tempted to try Traveller, but I'm not sure how it manage to create truly alien PCs. That said, it seems it would be easy to reshuffle the items in tech trees instead of tech levels.
Hopefully Hollow Earth Expedition
Maybe ICONS, I’ve heard it’s the equivalent to Pathfinder when comparing it to MnM and DnD
Davvy's vibe changes so much with a bit of scruff.
Regular Davvy: Jedi Knight
Davvy with facial hair: Sith bard
I actually tried this edition, a little overwhelming when I first saw it but overall it was interesting. There’s a fan made SW5e that is a lot easier to learn for anyone who wants a smoother conversion.
I was gonna mention this one
i liked earlier edition better
Saga Edition was the first RPG I played with a group. I'm a huge SW nerd so I was attracted to it immediately. One day I'll own all the books in print.
I honestly believe SWSE (not the original or revised Star Wars games) is the best d20 game WotC ever released. But it does have some issues. For those who want to play.
1) Skills and Defenses are calculated using different formulas. Defenses increase based upon your level with small bonuses based on class and various talents that add up. Skills increase based on half your level with a big meaty +5 if you are trained in the skill. With an additional +5 if you get Skill Focus feat in a skill. The Force is a skill. Which means if you are trained in it and then pick up Skill Focus as early as you can, all your Force powers are at +10 against defenses that are at +1 or +2. Which is insane. This makes Jedi hugely powerful in the beginning, but by levels 17+ defenses have caught up or surpassed them with all those little bonuses. And you get a weird state where Jedi become the least consistently useful of the players, admittedly after dominating the gameplay up to that point.
Solution: Make it so Trained skills change the formula for skills to your level instead of half level. Make Skill Focus feat give +1 with an additional +1 at 5, 10, 15, 20. This makes using the Force scale with Defenses decently accurately.
2) Armor. As Davvy noted, Armor works funny. You can either add your level to your Defense or get the benefits of Armor. Which makes armor really good early game then actually a detriment come level 5 or so. You can specialize in armor to make it good again, but it requires dipping Soldier and takes a few more feats/talents than other martial specializations.
Solution: This is just really easy. Soldiers can get the Armor Defense talent that allows you to choose to add your level or your armor. Just make it work like that for everyone.
3) The CT Killer: The way damage works is if you deal enough damage that it surpasses it's an awesome hit that weakens your opponent. Each opponent had 5 levels getting weaker each time. Once you hit level 5 they die. This actually is really fun in practice and allows two different kill conditions to try and work for in every fight. However, as the game got along a lot of different feats and talents allowed the player to apply an additional weakening ranks with these big hits and eventually you got builds that could 1 Shot Darth Vader instantly dropping him down all 5 ranks on the Condition Track.
Solution: Make it so these feats and talents that grant additional ranks on the Condition Track not stack. So hits can maybe knock someone down 2 ranks, but not all 5.
And that's it. And honestly, only the first one is something new players are likely to figure out and experience. It's a great game.
God, I remember playing Saga edition with my father and I love this system so much, thank you for making this video, Davvy
Honestly, Revenge of the Sith is pretty watchable.
The prequels are all watchable, they certainly dont live up to the original feel, but if we edit out the "romance" and a few other scenes they seem far better. So, just fast forward a few minutes...
the sequels arent so easy to salvage.
This edition brings me back to my highschool days. Force suites may have been one of the best ways to represent a slowly recovering force pool to date in an RPG, with the Use the Force skill covering all the stuff in between.
Davvy Reviewing Saga Edition:
"The 3.5 is strong with this game!"
Man, Sagas led to one of the most satisfying campaigns I've ever been a part of. It lasted a year and a half and formed a game group that's still playing 4 years later. The variety of options was so great, even if the rules tended to be a bit clunky. Plus dropping an opponent down the condition track because it just had too much health was so satisfying.
A good way for a DM to make Jedi less overpowered is to have a lot of Skill Challenge encounters in the campaign: non-combat encounters that revolve around creative uses of skills. Jedi get so few skills, that that really balances them out. The actual rules for Skill Challenges are in one of the class-based expansions, probably the Scout one. Also, the Skill Focus feat is balanced if you change it to you get your full level as a bonus on the skill, rather than half, because the +5 it gives you normally is way to strong.
One of the longest & funnest ttrpg's I played was with saga. Played a droid tech soldier named M3 all the way to max lvl. He was a tank of a character that ended up playing like a dorideka in combat but he started out as the teams quirky medic/demoman. His phobia of Jawas & tendency to blow himself up with his own grenades is still mentioned today years later.
Id definitely make a mandalorian. Been in love with mandos since watching attack of the clones. They are just so badass! They are the only ones who can go toe to toe with jedi with all their cool gadgets.
I never liked that retcon that Jango wasn't a true Mandalorian. I actually liked the depiction of Mandalore pre-TCW as read in Karen Travis' Republic Commando novels.
@@Webshooters1 I agree, Jango is a favourite of mine, he killed Jedi in the name of mandalore and was born on a mandalorian world. Seems pretty mandalorian to me
damned, the Mandalorian warrior talent tree of the Elite Soldier is awesome. When you take down an enemy you can move as a free action, your armor become able to reduce damage from a Lightsaber (and that's a huge bonus, since Lightsabers ignores almost EVERY Damage Reduction in the game)
oh Gods the accessibility joke. Man that’s gone live forever now.
So I am probably going to throw this suggestion at you until I get some sort of response:
Lancer: a mech tabletop rpg with awesome mech combat, modular as heck mech characters, and an awesome setting
Absolutely love Saga Edition. I've resurrected my passion for it from my teenage years and have started a new campaign with some rookie role players. Thanks for the video, you're both hilarious and insightful.
So there is actually a 5th edition-based star wars game, fan-made "conversion" of dnd 5th edition called SW5e. I use airquotes because it does a lot on its own with a lot of changes that make it feel unique, and having played it a fair bit (not enough sadly, it's still very niche.) it's *really* good and a ton of fun to play.
oh, also: Jedi aren't insanely OP: Consular, Guardian, and Sentinel are classes balanced alongside other classes, and "Spells" are converted to "Powers" and are split into "Tech" and "Force". there's slight difference in how they function, but mostly it just means Jedi aren't leagues above other classes but rather a type of spellcaster which can be matched by an engineer or scout.
We're playing a Campaign right now with sw5e and it's actually really well made. It does like to make PCs really powerful, which is my preferred way of playing anyway, but I'm playing an engineer Chiss and I can easily compare with our three jedi characters. They actually make it interesting with Force powers in that they are technically more powerful than Tech powers, but Tech powers come back on a short rest while Force powers come back on a long. It's definitely got the accessibility (The sourcebooks are all officially online for free) of 5e, while still making it their own game.
We're here to not hear about 5e though that's the whole point of these videos
I'm in a westmarch discord server for this game and it plays very well. It's great!
I've been playing SWSE since a few months after the Core book was released. This is a very good video on the system. I would like to highlight and clarify some things.
--Multiclassing is definitely encouraged, which may seem really strange to some, especially since it really is about the abilities and mechanics, rather than the names of classes. So you don't have to be a criminal to take levels in the Crime Lord prestige class. Most Sith take a number of levels in the Jedi class, and no titles are needed to be a Noble.
--The Wealth talent which gives tons of credits is sometimes banned. It often depends on how much of a sandbox the campaign is. But you can even build your own starship, so that's cool.
--The actions are Standard, Move, and Swift. And although there are similarities to other D&D editions, there are differences from every version which people often mistakenly assume are present in SWSE. Like attacks of opportunity being more like 3.5 than 5E, or withdrawing or charging being different from every system.
--Damage past your threshold sends you down the Condition Track (which makes you easier to hit), but doesn't automatically kill you. There are many different feats and talents which deal with the condition track, both for offensive and defensive purposes. You can also use a Force Point to avoid dying, so it's actually pretty hard to die in this system.
--I would agree with space combat. I've done a campaign before which was centered around it, so it can be fun, but it shouldn't be a regular thing. The pilot is a standard character archetype, but they just need the Vehicular Combat feat and maybe a Skill Focus for 90% of the job, since Space Combat does often suck except in moderation.
--Jedi are indeed OP. Specifically, the difference between skill checks and defenses. There are definitely house rules to address that, but it's very easy to make a powerful force user very early, and the power levels really only even out at very high levels.
Oh, Gods. talking about the Condition Track you make me remember one of the best builds ever (and very useful against Jedi): the CT Killer. For those who doesn't know, the Condition Track Killer (or CT Killer), is a build based upon the Condition Track. It doesn't kill an enemy, but it deals a tons of damage with a stun weapon. Stun weapons deals half the damage you roll, so is not deadly. But if the damage you roll before being halved is equal or more than your damage threshold, you're going down by 2 in the condition (-2 to all defenses and all the rolls). With a talent and a feat you can reduce the condition even further, up to going down to -4 in the condition (and that's a heavy penalty. The condition track goes as follow: Normal; -1 to all defenses and rolls; -2 to all; -5 to all and speed is halved; -10 to all and speed is halved; unconscious). So, if a CT killer hits you, you're going down to be a very easy target, with a -10 to all.
I love this new route where you review other games, I've started call of cthulu because of you
I’ve been looking to run this so sending this to people could be a way to get players. Thanks Chappy!
So it's kinda like the SWTOR Skill Trees. Edit: Oh, so you mentioned it. Don't ignore it guys, it's not bad but it may not achieve what you're using Kotor for.
I just dug all my books out to run a game with my kids. They're so excited to "write their own Star Wars" that they're drawing their OCs already.
Thus is so cool! I cannot wrap my head around combat in 3e, but the character creation is where is stands out; this seems like it takes that strength and cranks it up to 11!
Just so you know... I immedietly went from depressed to - atleast barely - happy when you mentioned KotoR and all my memories of that time came back :) such good games... wish there had been more of them
One of my earliest memories was seeing Star Wars Episode III with my father in theaters too. Strange coincidence.
I’ve literally been looking for something based on KOTOR… I guess KOTOR was based on this. LETS FUCKING GO.
Davvy: The jedi class is broken
Me: A..... yeah pretty much.
Thank you for this video, I am new to D&D within the year and have been a DM the whole time. My love of Star Wars predates pretty much all other nerdy things. I am running a SW5E one-shot next week and it is nice to learn where some of the ideas came from. Maybe some day I'll step out of my comfort and try this out.
I’m really enjoying these looks into other systems of playing. I would t mind seeing Fatecore or Mutants and Masterminds explored. I also would love to see Pokémon Tabletop explored as well.
I've had the Saga core rulebook and The Force Unleashed since they released. I think I attempted to run a game using these rules once. A few weeks ago I got the urge to get my buddies together and run an rpg; of which they wanted Star Wars. And here I am. This video was fantastic and hopefully will help me help my players. Top stuff.
yay saga edition, some of my greatest memories come from it, thanks mr. d&d
"Armor becomes useless", but isn't that everything Star Wars before Mandalorian S2?
To my knowledge, storm trooper armor is ment to keep the soldier stable long enough to be recovered after the battle
the ship combat thing is something that the fan made Star Wars overhaul of 5e did well. They basically completely separated ship combat related skills onto a whole other system called Deployments, which are separate from your class. There are 6 Deployments: coordinator, gunner, mechanic, operator, pilot, and technician. All the deployments go up to level 5 at maximum, and you gain deployment XP separate from your regular class XP. It's a really interesting system that I think would be great if it were adapted and modified for Saga Edition, and it completely solves the issue of having to choose between being competent in ships and being competent on the ground.
This is great, Star Wars D6 was the thing that got me into tabletop games in general.
1:25 it's a 4e character sheet
Davvy just outed himself as a DnD youtube plant
I'm so happy that someone else knows about this game. I've been playing it for years and it's sooo fun!
I was LOOKING for something like this! Thanks man
Omg Ty so much for doing this! I am using saga edition for the first time and it’s a lot to take on!
I love Saga Edition. It is my favorite SW RPG. I will never willingly part with my 14-book collection.
Character-building, equipment modification mechanics, shipbuilding and customization are just so satisfying.
As you said, there's published support for all pre-Disney eras. Between the published Saga Edition materials, materials from other sources, and Wookieepedia, you can easily run a game in any era or with any sort of story.
I'd love to see Saga updated and rebalanced. It definitely has issues at higher levels.
I had a character who was a former Naboo handmaiden (medic specialist) and was the party skill monkey. Out of combat, I totally rocked. I soon handled pretty much everything from dealing with NPCs to repairing droids, patching up wounds, piloting ships and speeders, hacking (er, slicing) computers, etc but sucked in combat. I was basically just providing cover fire for our Jedi to swoop in and decapitate the enemies. It wasn't until I was around level 5 I think that I at least would hit what I was shooting at. Good times.
One fix I tried with skill focus was to rewrite it as "You gain a bonus equal to half your character level rounded down." That way it's less OP at lower levels, but it still scales higher than it normally would have at higher levels.
My father also took me to watch the prequels in cinemas when I was but a boy- they're core memories for me too
Hey guys, you wanna hear a Star Wars joke?
It's *really* funny.
Yes
Well? We're waiting! Lol
May the Schwartz be with you, Sir Darth Nerf Herder and emperor Sheeve Boy.
Boom, there’s your Star Wats joke.
I made a scout that used cortosis gloves to grapple lightsabers and beat their owners with the pommel. Murphy O’Neil, the angriest Irishman in the galaxy.
7:36 looks like a Chappy who has his life together
Saga Edition had one of my favorite game stories - the time two skill monkey PCs with low combat ability racked up the highest kill counts.
PC1: My character was a Felucian. So caveman level technology, and just insane stealth bonuses, despite being as big as a Wookie. In combat, he was just taking pot shots with poisoned arrowheads. We had this glorious idea of trying to invade a base by firing escape pods. Well, no one stopped to think "hmm... maybe we shouldn't put the caveman alone in an escape pod." Long story short, I managed to blow the door off, flattening a couple droids/stormtroopers/mooks. I then accidentally got it to accelerate into a battalion and explode, while jumping free.
PC2: The noble managed to roll insanely high (with a nat 20) on intimidate against the commander, arguing along the lines of "we're wiping the floor with you. Surrender now." He's about to surrender when the second in command executes him for treason and takes over. Next turn, the noble simply says "Still wiping the floor with you" and rolls a second nat 20. The new commander, sweating bullets, decides this is the appropriate time for the self-destruct button.
Good video might check out the game now. Your videos are always awesome I love your energy.👍
Davvy: "...Sheer unwatchability of the prequels"
Prequel fans: Pack your things, we're leaving
Last time we played Saga Edition, one of the players had a wookiee soldier/scout/ something else I can't remember, and was able to one shot bosses when he raged and crit.
At level 10 he could hit something for up to around 400 damage if he maxed out his rolls, but more often did around 200ish on lower rolls. AT LEVEL 10.
It was insane. And beautiful. And yes he ended up one shotting 2 bosses. And the final boss was one I was mostly dealing damage to being a ranged focus ex Clone Trooper that specialized in basically negating a jedi's blaster block by pouring ridiculous amounts of blaster bolts at them or rolling high enough on single shots to make it impossible for them to deflect, and was also force sensitive somehow so he could use force powers to boost his damage output even further.
I weakened the boss down to around 60% of his hp and then Ricky the Wookiee came in and rage crit on a powered charge attack for around 300ish points of damage and insta-killing the boss. It was beautiful.
I had a lightsaber training droid that I loved. Technically soldier/jedi cross class. Such great RP as a depressed droid after order 66. Mechanically deadly, since training lightsabers would knock people down the exhaustion tree, resulting in instant death after a round or two of strikes.
Heyyy SWTOR is fun :(
Great video in any case! Didn’t know about this RPG until now.
Yo davvy lots of love from Serbia, you introduced me to roll playing and im really greatfull for that. 🙏🏽
I was a huge fan of this game. My friends and I thought 4th ed was going to resemble it mechanically, and were disappointed when it didn't.
I'd second the disappointment of 4e after seeing all the freedom that SAGA provided.
Those star wars fames mentioned at the end are some of the best games I have ever played (including the MMO though it's only connection to the others is its name).
Damn you know I've always wanted to play d&d but was always scared of being
overwhelmed, but THIS now I gotta play some star wars d&d wow !
This game looks amazing thanks Davvy
My thoughts on what a 5e version of Star Wars could be is each appropriate class who needs it gets a subclass related to the force. A school of magic for Wizards, an Oath to Paladins, a Faith to Clerics, and a Path for the Monks. Sorcerer also fits very well with canon since a force user is born with their power and the most talented ones usually show promise at an early age. Rogues, Barbarians, Fighters, Artificers, Bards, and Rangers can pretty easily flavor their abilities as tech or minor force abilities. Druids are the one I'm kinda bent on since you could probably have a druid in star wars and not have them use the force so long as the alien biology is explained but if you want a druid that works on every planet adding them to force users makes sense. The Warlock could be a force user if The Force is their patron, but they're so many mysterious entities Light or Dark or In between that it seems like the most flexible. The races don't have to be too drastically different either, especially if you have star wars races as subraces. Like Warforged as droids, Yoda as a goblin, etc etc. This all can help with keeping force users and non users about as fair and balanced as vanilla 5e, and hopefully can help your games. (I'd also recommend that the available spell list for all classes resemble the limits for the force and star wars tech, this might all be lots of work but isn't any homebrew already?)
Davvy, have you ever tried FFG's Warhammer RPGs? Specifically, have you tried Only War? That is one of the most beginner-friendly RPG systems I know of, and is an excellent conduit for the lore of the universe, along with having enough mechanical depth that veteran players can really stretch their legs.
This makes me want to play it and make a Star Wars fan club out of it!
Saga Edition is my favorite flavor of the OGL d20 engine. Talent trees are a great antidote to class bloat, without the strictures brought on by a subclass, and the condition track adds a real element of danger to extended fights. I have great memories of running a gestalt game based on the Wraith Squadron novels.
Saga edition is the pinacle of Star Wars rpg design. Nothing before (and certainly not anything after) it comes close to the greatness of it. I have all the books twice (except Threats and KOTOR, of course), along with every book on pdf.
When I played a 4 year campaign the least effective character was our only jedi. A dude played batman and absolutely wrecked everyone. But the party dynamic was that the jedi was a heavy roleplayer and batman was a munchkin.
Hmm, I feel like you might be able to go toe to toe with Jedi if you build a Droid army.
REPEAT THE CLONE WARS!
Prequels are better then the sequels. Change my mind.
No
there is not a REEEElo alive that can change your mind
This is not an unpopular opinion. The prequels are good.
They arent though. Objectively on every level the prequels are fucking awful films.
The sequels are a badly written confusing mess with a storyline that just keeps hitting brick wall after brick wall....
But the sequel films are technically polished, with amazing practical special effects, decent acting, and beautiful cinematography and production.
The prequels are flat, poorly acted, completely chock full of badly aged cgi and green screen scenes, and just poorly directed. The jedi fight scenes are so busy and brightly colored its like a fucking neon vegas casino sign exploded right into your eyeballs. Not to mention once again... christian hayden and natalie portmans on screen chemistry was non existent and their acting was like watching a fucking high school play. I saw phantom menace on opening day, i even skipped school to go to the fiest showing, and i remember the dissapointment washing over me as the credits.rolled. my brother, a SW fanboy since the 70s face was twisted in frozen agony.... Fuck the prequels. Fuck george lucas.
But fuck disney more... So i guess you win.
@@vengeanceforcatalonia8935 You can rag on the acting all you like...but the sequels arrent acted any -better-. The writing in the prequels feels like someone having fucking fun, so it wins by default.
Poorly written? Eh, in some parts. But it feels like star wars. I'll take it any day of the week.
This was actually the first RPG I ever played. Lots of great memories from it.
Ahh, Saga edition. Still have those books. Really did like how you could customs build your own Droid 'race'
Side note, someone also made a starwars version of 5e that takes mostly the rules from 5e and adds a star wars twist to it. My playgroup did it and while you can make some absolutely ridiculous characters (I played a barbarian that could THROW greatswords 60ft), it was super easy to understand for us as we had never played a ttrpg that wasn't D&D 5e. I think its called sw5e
Currently running a KOTOR campaign with Saga Edition. I really enjoy the system, and my players love the amount of customization the game allows with the talent trees and prestige classes.
Glad to see a video on it since it doesn’t get as much attention since FFG’s Star Wars game came out.
by far the best part of saga is how good skill builds are, nobles are great for ooc gameplay while still supporting the party in combat. Also it's an optimizer'a dream for making suboptimal character concepts fun and playable
Thanks for making this. I was really confused with making a character lol
If you want a simpler D&D clone of Star Wars, there is another pair of games called Star Adventurer and White Star. SA is only 35 pages and quite easy to use. Force powers are just skills that work using a 1D20 vs a difficulty number set by the GM, and leveling up gives barely any hit points, and your bonuses for leveling up are random tables. White Star is more traditional D&D, including Vancian "Use and forget" spells per day/Force Powers per day. There is an expansion book that changes Force Powers to be permanent unlocks as you level up, though.
I have ONE quibble: KotoR was not SAGA edition. It couldn't have been, because Saga was 2007 and KotoR I was '03. Rather, KotoR used the older d20 version (not sure if it was the original RPG Wizards put out circa 2000 or the Revised edition circa 2003 and 3.5 D&D - not a coincidence, they basically revamped the whole d20 license and updated the game to keep up with it). Still a good game, but Jedi still were favored in the mechanics, and not just "Force Powers Good;" like Saga, the older game encouraged multiclassing (I think it did away with 3e's stupid Multiclass XP penalty, actually, but could be wrong), and had prestige classes which had certain entry requirements. The thing is, some required skill ratings that oddly weren't options for the classes you'd think would be natural for them. A scoundrel had a tough time becoming a crime lord for some reason without other classes, for example. You know which class DIDN'T have a problem becoming a crime lord?
Jedi Consular.
No joke, it had more skills than most other classes, a medium BAB (Base Attack Bonus for the non-3e or Pathfinder fans out there - think Proficiency bonus but on a longer scale and only for attacks), AND Force Shenanigans. Jedi Warrior was less skillful but still had a better time getting into non-force using Prestige Classes than some of the non-Force Users.
Star Wars Saga Edition is so fun. The campaign i played in had assassinations, time travel, and one sessions that included one session with using Castles & Catapults to defend against a horde of zombies!
Man this video is much better after having played some SAGA edition. I definitely enjoy it, but its something I can only do every now and then as the effort the character creation ends up inspiring in me is not sustainable.
My first game we were all Rebels on Tattoine in a sort of different timeline just to divorce it from the cannon events and have some more freedom. I was playing a sort of communication and spotter character. As the game went on I ended up with a ton of different skills and my use co.puter and stealth were insane. I had all the gadgets too. Eventually 2 of the other Rebels got some force powers and one even took a level in Jedi. We ended up against an inquisitor. And the GM a few sessions prior had asked everyone for major character flaws. I went with greed as this Tattoine born and raised Dug seemed to fit that.
He used this flaw. And I started doing side missions for the various factions. Eventually the Inquisitor contacts me after he pretended not to know we had infiltrated the Imperial base and I noticed his almost imperceptible smirk and glance. He hired me to do at first unrelated seeming things. For a LOT of money. So I did them, and got rewarded with credits and gadgets. I even took some piloting. Really I was a very well rounded character able to do just about anything well and was good enough at sniping. But I really shined at getting information from any sort of tech or communications or just by observing.
Eventually I get hired to kill a party member. Now I wasnt gonna do it. I couldnt really think of a way to do it as one shot from him would kill me. And one bad stealth roll would end me. Back at the Rebel base there were too many eyes. Eventually he and I go on a mission solo and he eats a bunch of grenades and survives dying on the ground. I kill his droid and finish him off for the bounty. I couldnt save him anyway as Treat Injury was one skill I couldnt do. This was the best betrayal in ANY of the dozens of games I have played with these people.
I cover my tracks, really just consisted of making it look like the Imperials blasted our ride, and headed back to base. Nobody suspected a thing. The next session the Inquisitor wanted a word with the new Jedi.... and she really wanted to "speak" with him. So with a gentle encouraging nudge we went to take him down. The fight started and she missed him... and I hid and did nothing. It didnt last much longer. The player had not known what had killed the other player as they had missed the previous session and NOBODY wanted to spoil it.
The last arc was us working for the Inquisitor with me being very paranoid and staying out of reach of the newer Jedi forced Sith pawn. Eventually the game ended and my character quickly left planet amd the now freed force user swearing vengeance.
I learned that campaign that I didnt have to beat the force user. Just everyone else and avoid them. Or trick them. There were situational powers that would have helped but who would chooses those things that wont ever come up....
This was actually the first table top RPG I ever played long before I started into D&D
I started with Star Wars Revised, It is much closed to D&D 3.5. I tend to prefer this one to Saga Edition because you have more options outside of combat and I feel the force skill work better. But to each their own.
My immediate concept is a former sith who shuns the lightsaber in favor of force lightning and punching his foes in the throat with the power of Kung Fu inspired by the various forms of lightsaber combat.
1:24 that a 4e character sheet davvy you can't deceive me I rolled a nat 20 on my insight check
Never knew this existed
I was hoping to hear something about Edge of the Empire, but I'll just cry instead
7:30 is a great conversation for GMs to have with players
There's also Edge of the empire which I love
Cool video! Have you played the 5E Star Wars someone made and/or the FFGs Star Wars RPG? If so, what are your thoughts compared to Saga Ed and will you potentially be doing a video on one or both of them? I've only ever played 5E, mostly DM-ing, but Star Wars is my first love and I want to eventually run a Star Wars game, but i'm not sure which ruleset to go with, or even what era - though i'm most immediately tempted with the Old Republic era.
I crave all things Beardy Chappy!
There is a full 5e starwars conversion thats free and pretty interesting, and it has the same jedi/force problem, that force user basically get combined spell list from base 5e classes, which just leads to basically paladins with access to every spell.
Tbh this is the first time I heard a person say don’t be an overpower Piece of shit to deal with a player and tbh that makes sense thank you
how my group circumvented the Jedi problem of being op, is that a few of us played clones, and besides being put in situations were Jedi could not do everything, like in literal war zones, me and the clones leaned hard into being the side characters and generally be meme lords and had fun with our characters. I think part of the reason Jedi are so op in the empire/rebel setting is that the rebels are like guerrilla and espionage fighters so one group of elites is the norm. while in standard war, the Jedi are a lot more vulnerable because of the sheer number of non Jedi. like the droids and their military had to have had tons of anti Jedi capabilities for the war to not be just the republic curb stomping the federation
So, when you said you would be touching games outside of 5e dnd, I was not at all expecting this to come up. Happy it did though.
I would love more content like this on your Channel