I prefer the published version of events, but Sam stabbing the wizard king with sting while saying "you first" is pretty baller. Tolkien had a plethora of great options, guy was genius
Bruh, I would handsomely pay if you did the entire book series audiobook style. Even get a small cast to help you voice act it. You definitely have the voice for it.
You should listen to Phil Dragash’s audiobook soundscape, he does all the voices perfectly and adds in the music and sound effects. It’s an absolute masterpiece and feels like you’re in the books
8:32 "The Eye suddenly becomes like a beam of fire stabbing sheer and sharp out of the northern smoke". Fascinating! That almost sounds like the movie version of Sauron.
I mainly notice how many of these elements possibly made their way into the films. The Witch-King being stronger than Gandalf, and many quotes and conversations. Sam stabbing the orc from behind, could that be inspired by these notes?
I always liked the book version of the meeting between Gandalf and the Witch king better than Jackson's interpretation. With Jackson its more or less a random encounter while in the book the Witch King enters Minas Tirith through it's broken gate and encounters Gandalf in the square behind the gate. They eye each other and then the Rohirrim spoil the whole stuff. Much more epic
@@istari0Doesn't mean that if the rights weren't sold the producers didn't look to it. For example, Saruman's portrayal in the film echoes that of the early drafts in The Treason of Isengard, The Council of Elrond (1): "And the vale that was once fair was filled with wolves and orcs, for Saruman was there mustering a great force for the service of his new master." Sure, even in later versions Saruman is "an ally or servant of Sauron" (UT, The Istari), but his true goal is to claim the Ring for himself and Gandalf accuses Saruman of this: "you have cheated your new master" (The Two Towers, The Voice of Saruman). Whereas the early drafts had Saruman merely as Sauron's servant, much like in the films. Even Saruman's army is for his new master, which brings to mind Sauron commanding his vassal in the films to "Build [him] an army worthy of Mordor" (TLotR: The Fellowship of the Ring) It wasn't until the later versions of the Departure of Boromir that Tolkien implied that Saruman wanted to betray his new master as well and was feigning allegiance: "Whether he is merely working under the command of Mordor, or playing some hand of his own I cannot guess."
The main problem with this Wizard-King incarnation is the same problem with the cut "Final Battle with Sauron" initially planned for the movies- Sauron is not supposed to be fought directly. Having the Witch-King in this final scene undermines the idea that the ring is the true enemy- it gives the characters something physical to fight, drawing attention away from what the whole story up to that point had been about. Placing a powerful servant of Sauron, who is in essence just a metaphor for Sauron himself, destroys the integrity of Sauron as the villan to be feared, but never seen. Tolkien, much like Jackson, showed immesurable restraint by not including their respective final scenes.
If I remember correctly, Tolkien changed it to Witch King when he changed the origins of the character because he didn't want people to think the Wizard King was still originally a Maia.
@@istari0it's slightly deeper than that, imo. Sure that may be A reason, but think about how inspired Tolkien was by folklore. In most folklore, wizards are advisors (such as Merlin), which is why the Maiar took the forms and names they did. Witches, however, are people who gain magic through pacts with dark forces, specifically, Lucifer and fallen angels...which describes Sauron perfectly. And the Witch Kind DID form a pact (of a sort, at least, once he took one of the Nine) with Sauron for power.
0:49 I once started reading the History of Middle Earth but gave up very rapidly because it like scholar paper rather than a smooth story. Respect to all who made it through all 12 books
Me watching the Nazgul smashed by a rock in Return of the King: 😂 Me watching the Nazgul smashed by a rock in Return of the King after playing Shadow of War: 😢
Tolkien also considered other catch phrases for Sam to say before slaying the Wizard King including: "I'll have what he's having"; "Yippee Ki Yay, King of Wizards!"; and "You're all clear Mr. Frodo, let's destroy this ring and go home"
The Wizard-King, most powerful among the 9, quickly corrupted by his ring & first to die. I imagine his wraith coming like the reaper to claim the remaining 8 mortal men doomed to die. We need a fanfic community damn
The Witch King being a corrupted Istari would had been difficult from a narrative pov. It does happen like what happened to Saruman. The question is whether a corrupted Maia would had willingly followed Sauron. It would had been likely they would had been frenemies. Each would had been trying to undermine each other. What method would had Sauron use to keep the Witch King on a leash? Both of them would had been looking for the ring for their own use. Keeping the Witch King a fallen human and giving the fallen Istari role to Saruman made for more better narrative.
@@Eowyn3Pride Yeah they would have to have gone into the east and then circled back, wouldn't be that big of a leap since whatever they did is shrowded. Plus the whole "9 rings for men" thing. But they came clothed in the bodies of old men so that could maybe be a reasonable caveat
Isn't it interesting that from the Blue Wizards, we are given two figures and from the Nazgul we are given two figures? Alatar (The Witch-King) & Pallando (Khamul). Alatar became counted among the Numenoreans while Pallando/Khamul became counted among Easterlings.
There are definitely parts of this I do like; I often complain about "where did these nine 'great men' hail from? What lands, or nations, that are not so far to the east, or south, ascto be beyond our reckoning, have tales of mem who lingered on, long after they should have faded, and then did fade, but did not die?", so the idea that at least some might've been from Sauron's actual time upon Numenor, and basically grabbed up to support his schemes, is really cool, as is the idea that Gandalf actively refers to other Wizards, as if they exist in the world, and aren't necessarily all enmantled Maia, numbering less than half a dozen. It is also nice to get more references to Radagast, as he is yet another character that Tolkien seemed to take a fair amount of effort to create, AMF introduce, but then basically do nothing with; he's referenced twice, and never seen, and then doesn't even act in the appendices, like Erebor, Dale, the elves, and the leaders of these places. I know it's just me complaining, but I like some of these extra bits. I still prefer our Witch King; his history, and his fate, but even such an emaciated character could have benefited from a little more meat on his bones.😊 This is totally unrelated, but if it gets me a redirect to another video, I consider that a win, so in Tolkien's world, how was the world INTENDED to work? As it exists, it seems mostly ideal for Men; everything moves at about the right speed, if you will, but it's not as great for the Elves. The thing is, the Elves weren't INTENDED to live in Valinor, and only got the opportunity because the Valar wanted to protect them from Morgoth, and his tainting of the world had consequences. Still, HE couldn't change how Elves, or Men, worked, inherently; at best, he forged Orcs out of one of them, likely, but Elves were Elves as Illuvatar intended, and so were Men, so if they both woke up in the same world, and were both intended to dwell within it, how was that ever going to work? Say Men are actually preferred all you want, but most would agree that the Elves appear to be Illuvatar's favored children, whom the world seemed made for, and whom were offered protection against Morgoth Men never were, so if the damaged, hand-me-down Middle Earth worked so well for Men, but Elves kind of needed to go elsewhere, if Morgoth hadn't been the worst, did Tolkien ever explain how THAT world might have worked?
It would have required a significant change to the storyline to have Sauron recruiting potential Nazgûl while in Númenor as in the published timeline Sauron didn't arrive in Númenor until centuries later. The Elves were originally intended to live in Middle-Earth for a time and serve as mentors to Men when the latter awoke. Then the Elves would move on. So, I think it is more accurate to say the Elves were intended to live in Valinor but not as soon as they did.
Matt, I absolutely LOVE your work. I would be overjoyed if you did an audio book of the trilogy with your voice. I think you should be the definitive voice of Tolkien's work, personally, and I would buy those versions without hesitation! Keep being amazing!
@nerd of the rings, could you make a video about the idea of how the story would have continued if saruman had remained good and not fallen to evil? that would be really interesting :)
...Why not the Wizard Queen? That would have been soooooo rhymingly thematic. 2:05: "Upgraded"? Don't think I heard of such a word in Middle-earth. 2:14: ...Dante? A possible Blue Wizard/future Witch-king who actually hung out a bit on Númenor... won't lie, the ramifications of this are astounding. Guess Tolkien wanting to fix fic Shakespeare's Macbeth ended up becoming the stronger reason on how the Witch-king fell in the final product. Besides, a woman like Eowyn and a hobbit secondary character like Merry needed their time to shine, while Sam's already proven himself enough. Frodo's inner thoughts of becoming "king of kings" should still be canon in the final product, just unstated and offpage. Bet the early draft is canon somewhere in, you guessed it, the infinite Multiverse.
This gives me some background on where Cory Olsen has some of his ideas that the Dark Wizard in season two of the Rings of Power could eventually become the Witch King in that story.
"For he was a member of our Order before evil took him." - Gandalf. Isn't it interesting that the fate of the Blue Wizards are unknown? And yet there is only 2 names provided among the Nazgul, the Witch-King and Khamul. Is it so hard to think that the Blue Wizards both played a role in repelling the rule of Sauron AND served his purpose? For Alatar & Pallando walked amongst Men, like to Gandalf, Saruman and Radagast, so much so that they were counted as Men. Morinehtar (Morning Star→Lucifer) became the Wizard King of Numenor, fled east to settle Middle-earth (Egypt) to became subdued by the will of Sauron and the One Ring. Henceforth he became the Witch-King. There are myths to prove the fall/rise/abduction of Gods in mythology. The story of Morinehtar is echoed in the mythology of Persephonê and her abduction by Hades (Thu of Sauron). Or how about the myth of Osiris (Eosphorus/Hesperos) and his dismemberment at the hands of Set (Sauron).
This video convinced me that The Dark Wizard will become Witch King. It certainly has to be someone from Season 1, and his influence, via the Naz-gals, has existed from the beginning.
This was fascinating! Now I have to read The Return of the Shadow.🤓 Also, I had an idea for a short video covering the Mereth Aderthad in light of Thanksgiving coming up.😂
So there were 6 wizards and not 5 that is commonly known. That also means that in ROP season 2 the “bad wizard” can be the wizard king mentioned in this video?
Oh man, at the beginning, you said no man "can kill" instead of "will kill." Huge difference! The movies mix this up as well, always regretted that. The prophecy is one of destiny and a prediction of what will happen, not what is possible or not possible.
I'd like to see the LOTR story redone to include whatever was left out but good enough to include. but should do little to contradict itself. some irregularities ok but to much would be a no go.
What if the dark wizard from the rings of power series is actually a version of the witch king/ wizard king. Using his dark magic to cloak himself as a miyar wizard instead of a normal man
I wonder why they call him a witch king rather than a wizard King!? This is new information to me!! So this guy was originally an Istari?? This makes way more sense to me and I think they really should have stayed with us because that would make sense to gandalf would be afraid of him. I never understood why who was because it was just a human. And the most mighty of their order was saruman and he dealt with him with ease. I mean he wasn't even a threat. I like this version way more cuz it makes sense to me
Gandalf was afraid of Sauron but not the Witch King. He realized the Witch King was powerful and dangerous but when he was Gandalf the Grey, he held off all 9 Nazgûl at Weathertop.
WAIT! So you know I’ve been hounding you for a “What If Sam Kept The Ring?” video for a long while, Matt. How about working in the “What If The Witch King Survived The Battle of Pelennor Fields?” angle and merging those two what-ifs together with Sam and Gollum facing off against the terrifying Black Rider at Mount Doom? 😁🙏😁 Anyway, your “What If…” videos are some of my faves, and it has been too long! We are quite ready for another adventure. ⛵️
A "wizard" is a "wise one", and a "philosopher" is a "lover of wisdom". A close similarity. Thus a "wizard king" is similar to a "philosopher king". I choose to read in this a warning against Plato's ideal ruler.
Plato or ∞Ploutos the Greek Spirit of Iasiôn (Iasiôn→Ash in Tolkien Legendarium). Iasiôn the One who was proposed to "heal" Middle-earth for Sauron. Ash is Black Speech for One in the Ring Inscription, as he is the First of the Nazgul. What is Pluto's connection to Numenor? Well isn't he the one who told the great tale of Atlantis? He did choose ∞Sophia (Wisdom) as his overlord, and this can be understood to be Sā (or Sauron→Zeus-Ares) in Tolkien Legendarium. Wisdom is a funny word. As it is a rendering of Wise-Doom or Wise-Domination. Using knowledge in means to dominate others. This was Sauron's downfall. For knowledge is shared as found in the name of Olorin (Lore) and Mithrandir (Myth) as opposed to being dominated over others.
What evidence is there in Tolkien's writings that Sauron even met any king of Númenor before Ar-Pharazôn? It's also really hard to see how Sauron could corrupt the Númenorean king without attracting a lot of attention.
In my own head canon, during one of the occasions that Sauron had been temporarily vanquished, the Witch King had been searching Middle Earth for any artifacts that were left behind by Melkor/Morgoth in hopes of one day severing Sauron's control over him. As fate would have it, he had indeed found several. And he had learned to unlock the power contained within a few of them. Knowing that he would likely be the one to collect the One Ring and bring it to his master Sauron, he waited patiently for his plan to unfold in its due time. It was the possession of these higher artifacts that increased his own power so greatly. Though he did not yet know how to fully wield such power, being artifacts of Melkor himself, they certainly afforded him protection from the likes of lowly Maiar/Ishtari such a Sauron, Saruman, and Gandalf. Had the Witch King gained control of the One Ring, and been left to master the artifacts of Melkor, he would have been unstoppable. Leaving the Valar no choice but to directly interviene as they once had with Morgoth. That's my own little fantasy head canon for the Witch King. It adds another element to the story and serves to tie up a few threads that I thought were rather loose.
I think that is what Sauron was planning to do when he got Ar-Pharazôn to invade Valinor. He knew Ar-Pharazôn would not be returning but was caught completely by surprise when Ilúvatar sunk the whole island.
wizard king? you mean witch-king. The witch-king was POSSIBLY from Numenor. Was Wizard king used as a "masculine" word for the character in your video? "Witch" is gender neutral but has traditionally been used for women but through history has been applied to men more and more. In LOTR, "wizard" is a term I've only EVER heard of being applied to the Istari. human sorcerer, maybe? a member of our order? he wasnt an Istari. You are playing a little fast and loose with a thesaurus when it comes to sorcerer, wizard, and such. Tolkien was picky about his words and used them carefully. There was no mistake in his choice of words.
@@Firenutz It would have been... SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO much better if it had been one of the Blue Wizards.
![The Dragons of Middle-earth [COMPILATION]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/YSUlfiQVuDg/mqdefault.jpg)
![The Dragons of Middle-earth [COMPILATION]](/img/tr.png)
I prefer the published version of events, but Sam stabbing the wizard king with sting while saying "you first" is pretty baller. Tolkien had a plethora of great options, guy was genius
"You first... did you see that, Mr Frodo? I just had my first kill!"
I wonder if “not if I gut you first” came from that 🤔
Man, imagine Samwise Gamgee rolling back into town from his journey and wooing Rosie Cotton.
Sam: “So… I killed the Witch King of Angmar.”
Rosie: 😍
Bruh, I would handsomely pay if you did the entire book series audiobook style. Even get a small cast to help you voice act it. You definitely have the voice for it.
You should listen to Phil Dragash’s audiobook soundscape, he does all the voices perfectly and adds in the music and sound effects. It’s an absolute masterpiece and feels like you’re in the books
8:32 "The Eye suddenly becomes like a beam of fire stabbing sheer and sharp out of the northern smoke". Fascinating! That almost sounds like the movie version of Sauron.
I mainly notice how many of these elements possibly made their way into the films. The Witch-King being stronger than Gandalf, and many quotes and conversations. Sam stabbing the orc from behind, could that be inspired by these notes?
For sure. Sam’s “Not if I stick you first” line has to be inspired by this earlier draft, right? Makes that great scene even cooler now.
Yes it seems so, and then consider the description of Sauron at 8:32, almost sounds like the movie Eye-version of Sauron
I always liked the book version of the meeting between Gandalf and the Witch king better than Jackson's interpretation. With Jackson its more or less a random encounter while in the book the Witch King enters Minas Tirith through it's broken gate and encounters Gandalf in the square behind the gate. They eye each other and then the Rohirrim spoil the whole stuff. Much more epic
I'm somewhat dubious about that. The Tolkien Estate has never sold the rights to any of the HoME books.
@@istari0Doesn't mean that if the rights weren't sold the producers didn't look to it. For example, Saruman's portrayal in the film echoes that of the early drafts in The Treason of Isengard, The Council of Elrond (1): "And the vale that was once fair was filled with wolves and orcs, for Saruman was there mustering a great force for the service of his new master." Sure, even in later versions Saruman is "an ally or servant of Sauron" (UT, The Istari), but his true goal is to claim the Ring for himself and Gandalf accuses Saruman of this: "you have cheated your new master" (The Two Towers, The Voice of Saruman). Whereas the early drafts had Saruman merely as Sauron's servant, much like in the films. Even Saruman's army is for his new master, which brings to mind Sauron commanding his vassal in the films to "Build [him] an army worthy of Mordor" (TLotR: The Fellowship of the Ring) It wasn't until the later versions of the Departure of Boromir that Tolkien implied that Saruman wanted to betray his new master as well and was feigning allegiance: "Whether he is merely working under the command of Mordor, or playing some hand of his own I cannot guess."
The main problem with this Wizard-King incarnation is the same problem with the cut "Final Battle with Sauron" initially planned for the movies- Sauron is not supposed to be fought directly. Having the Witch-King in this final scene undermines the idea that the ring is the true enemy- it gives the characters something physical to fight, drawing attention away from what the whole story up to that point had been about. Placing a powerful servant of Sauron, who is in essence just a metaphor for Sauron himself, destroys the integrity of Sauron as the villan to be feared, but never seen.
Tolkien, much like Jackson, showed immesurable restraint by not including their respective final scenes.
An interesting thought, but could he at least keep the exploding Palantir in this? :D I'm not an expert in restraint though.
Or how about “What if Debbie found The One Ring?”
Game....over.
I am glad his name was changed. "The Witch King" has a much better ring than "The Wizard King".
Hehe… ring…
Asta wants to know your location
If I remember correctly, Tolkien changed it to Witch King when he changed the origins of the character because he didn't want people to think the Wizard King was still originally a Maia.
"You're a wizard, Angy."
@@istari0it's slightly deeper than that, imo. Sure that may be A reason, but think about how inspired Tolkien was by folklore. In most folklore, wizards are advisors (such as Merlin), which is why the Maiar took the forms and names they did. Witches, however, are people who gain magic through pacts with dark forces, specifically, Lucifer and fallen angels...which describes Sauron perfectly. And the Witch Kind DID form a pact (of a sort, at least, once he took one of the Nine) with Sauron for power.
0:49 I once started reading the History of Middle Earth but gave up very rapidly because it like scholar paper rather than a smooth story. Respect to all who made it through all 12 books
It always comes back to Sam the GOAT. Tolkien had to nerf the gallant hobbit so he didn't eclipse all other characters.
The 1 ring doesn't power-up Sam, it keeps him in check
Me watching the Nazgul smashed by a rock in Return of the King: 😂
Me watching the Nazgul smashed by a rock in Return of the King after playing Shadow of War: 😢
Mee too
It's not canon.
Thanks, I didn't need my heart. 🥲💔
@@robynwilde You, okay?
Tolkien also considered other catch phrases for Sam to say before slaying the Wizard King including: "I'll have what he's having"; "Yippee Ki Yay, King of Wizards!"; and "You're all clear Mr. Frodo, let's destroy this ring and go home"
The Wizard-King, most powerful among the 9, quickly corrupted by his ring & first to die. I imagine his wraith coming like the reaper to claim the remaining 8 mortal men doomed to die. We need a fanfic community damn
The Witch King being a corrupted Istari would had been difficult from a narrative pov. It does happen like what happened to Saruman. The question is whether a corrupted Maia would had willingly followed Sauron. It would had been likely they would had been frenemies. Each would had been trying to undermine each other. What method would had Sauron use to keep the Witch King on a leash? Both of them would had been looking for the ring for their own use. Keeping the Witch King a fallen human and giving the fallen Istari role to Saruman made for more better narrative.
I loved the artwork of J. R. R. and Christopher, very beautiful.
I do like the concept of the Witch King being a fallen blue wizard, would have been an interesting twist
Me too, but he would have had to back track to Numenor I think...🤔
@@Eowyn3Pride Yeah they would have to have gone into the east and then circled back, wouldn't be that big of a leap since whatever they did is shrowded. Plus the whole "9 rings for men" thing. But they came clothed in the bodies of old men so that could maybe be a reasonable caveat
Isn't it interesting that from the Blue Wizards, we are given two figures and from the Nazgul we are given two figures? Alatar (The Witch-King) & Pallando (Khamul). Alatar became counted among the Numenoreans while Pallando/Khamul became counted among Easterlings.
@nerd of the rings, could you make a video about the two fortresses of utumno and angband of morgoth? That would be really exciting :)
Good god, all of token work from rough draft to final are all awesome and intriguing.
2:04 I'm pretty sure Gandalf fought all Nine of the Ringwraiths at Weathertop, but was in the ensuing events pursued by four or five of them
That's what I remember as well. Then the next day Gandalf tried to lure them away but only some followed him.
Of all the videos you have done, this one was the most intriguing. Well done,bravo.
Really great job on this one, Matt!
There are definitely parts of this I do like; I often complain about "where did these nine 'great men' hail from? What lands, or nations, that are not so far to the east, or south, ascto be beyond our reckoning, have tales of mem who lingered on, long after they should have faded, and then did fade, but did not die?", so the idea that at least some might've been from Sauron's actual time upon Numenor, and basically grabbed up to support his schemes, is really cool, as is the idea that Gandalf actively refers to other Wizards, as if they exist in the world, and aren't necessarily all enmantled Maia, numbering less than half a dozen. It is also nice to get more references to Radagast, as he is yet another character that Tolkien seemed to take a fair amount of effort to create, AMF introduce, but then basically do nothing with; he's referenced twice, and never seen, and then doesn't even act in the appendices, like Erebor, Dale, the elves, and the leaders of these places. I know it's just me complaining, but I like some of these extra bits. I still prefer our Witch King; his history, and his fate, but even such an emaciated character could have benefited from a little more meat on his bones.😊
This is totally unrelated, but if it gets me a redirect to another video, I consider that a win, so in Tolkien's world, how was the world INTENDED to work? As it exists, it seems mostly ideal for Men; everything moves at about the right speed, if you will, but it's not as great for the Elves. The thing is, the Elves weren't INTENDED to live in Valinor, and only got the opportunity because the Valar wanted to protect them from Morgoth, and his tainting of the world had consequences. Still, HE couldn't change how Elves, or Men, worked, inherently; at best, he forged Orcs out of one of them, likely, but Elves were Elves as Illuvatar intended, and so were Men, so if they both woke up in the same world, and were both intended to dwell within it, how was that ever going to work? Say Men are actually preferred all you want, but most would agree that the Elves appear to be Illuvatar's favored children, whom the world seemed made for, and whom were offered protection against Morgoth Men never were, so if the damaged, hand-me-down Middle Earth worked so well for Men, but Elves kind of needed to go elsewhere, if Morgoth hadn't been the worst, did Tolkien ever explain how THAT world might have worked?
It would have required a significant change to the storyline to have Sauron recruiting potential Nazgûl while in Númenor as in the published timeline Sauron didn't arrive in Númenor until centuries later.
The Elves were originally intended to live in Middle-Earth for a time and serve as mentors to Men when the latter awoke. Then the Elves would move on. So, I think it is more accurate to say the Elves were intended to live in Valinor but not as soon as they did.
I never get tired of these videos ❤
Matt, I absolutely LOVE your work. I would be overjoyed if you did an audio book of the trilogy with your voice. I think you should be the definitive voice of Tolkien's work, personally, and I would buy those versions without hesitation! Keep being amazing!
@nerd of the rings, could you make a video about the idea of how the story would have continued if saruman had remained good and not fallen to evil? that would be really interesting :)
Another TH-camr has done that 😊 th-cam.com/video/m1vCi6-5xZA/w-d-xo.htmlfeature=shared
So in theory the "Wizard King" could be the Dark Wizard guy in the Rings of Power?
I am the wizard King I can do anything. Oh wait a minute that's lizard King hahaha 😂
very interesting what if story. I really like the bit where Sam uses Sting on the leader of the Black riders
...Why not the Wizard Queen? That would have been soooooo rhymingly thematic.
2:05: "Upgraded"? Don't think I heard of such a word in Middle-earth.
2:14: ...Dante?
A possible Blue Wizard/future Witch-king who actually hung out a bit on Númenor... won't lie, the ramifications of this are astounding.
Guess Tolkien wanting to fix fic Shakespeare's Macbeth ended up becoming the stronger reason on how the Witch-king fell in the final product. Besides, a woman like Eowyn and a hobbit secondary character like Merry needed their time to shine, while Sam's already proven himself enough.
Frodo's inner thoughts of becoming "king of kings" should still be canon in the final product, just unstated and offpage.
Bet the early draft is canon somewhere in, you guessed it, the infinite Multiverse.
I need that picture of the Eagle fighting the Nazgul.
This gives me some background on where Cory Olsen has some of his ideas that the Dark Wizard in season two of the Rings of Power could eventually become the Witch King in that story.
"For he was a member of our Order before evil took him." - Gandalf. Isn't it interesting that the fate of the Blue Wizards are unknown? And yet there is only 2 names provided among the Nazgul, the Witch-King and Khamul. Is it so hard to think that the Blue Wizards both played a role in repelling the rule of Sauron AND served his purpose? For Alatar & Pallando walked amongst Men, like to Gandalf, Saruman and Radagast, so much so that they were counted as Men. Morinehtar (Morning Star→Lucifer) became the Wizard King of Numenor, fled east to settle Middle-earth (Egypt) to became subdued by the will of Sauron and the One Ring. Henceforth he became the Witch-King.
There are myths to prove the fall/rise/abduction of Gods in mythology. The story of Morinehtar is echoed in the mythology of Persephonê and her abduction by Hades (Thu of Sauron). Or how about the myth of Osiris (Eosphorus/Hesperos) and his dismemberment at the hands of Set (Sauron).
This video convinced me that The Dark Wizard will become Witch King. It certainly has to be someone from Season 1, and his influence, via the Naz-gals, has existed from the beginning.
One of the best characters in middle earth
The witch king and the nazgul hold some interesting history I'd like to know more of each of the nine
Interesting creative process by Tolkien himself.
Did Tolkien know at this time that the wizards are Maiar? Maybe his innitial idea was Numenorean wizard order
I read somewhere that the Witch king was one of numenors king younger brother
ok so here could be an interesting one, given how close he was to having it among his treasures, what if Smaug had obtained the one ring from Bilbo.
- "No man can kill me"
- " I am no man, I am a hobbit ! Ahaha ! "
This was fascinating! Now I have to read The Return of the Shadow.🤓
Also, I had an idea for a short video covering the Mereth Aderthad in light of Thanksgiving coming up.😂
So there were 6 wizards and not 5 that is commonly known. That also means that in ROP season 2 the “bad wizard” can be the wizard king mentioned in this video?
Witch King: "No man can kill me."
Eowyn: "will a woman do then?"
thank you patrons...esp. And Debbie
Oh man, at the beginning, you said no man "can kill" instead of "will kill." Huge difference! The movies mix this up as well, always regretted that. The prophecy is one of destiny and a prediction of what will happen, not what is possible or not possible.
I'd like to see the LOTR story redone to include whatever was left out but good enough to include. but should do little to contradict itself. some irregularities ok but to much would be a no go.
So does the prohibition against hurting the Children of The One extend to the Nazgul?
What if the dark wizard from the rings of power series is actually a version of the witch king/ wizard king. Using his dark magic to cloak himself as a miyar wizard instead of a normal man
Good work boss 👏
i feel like the movie writers should subscribe to Nerd
Asta wouldn't wanna be like this guy.
Loved the video more people will have clues.
Could you do another video according to drafts video if there were Balrogs under Orodruin?
The canon version with Eowyn and Merry is so much better!
What if sauron was in Game of Thrones or The elders Scrolls
Could he conquer those worlds
I wonder why they call him a witch king rather than a wizard King!? This is new information to me!! So this guy was originally an Istari?? This makes way more sense to me and I think they really should have stayed with us because that would make sense to gandalf would be afraid of him. I never understood why who was because it was just a human. And the most mighty of their order was saruman and he dealt with him with ease. I mean he wasn't even a threat. I like this version way more cuz it makes sense to me
Gandalf was afraid of Sauron but not the Witch King. He realized the Witch King was powerful and dangerous but when he was Gandalf the Grey, he held off all 9 Nazgûl at Weathertop.
So is the Witch King one of the blue wizard
Is it possible the Dark Wizard in RoP is the Witch King?
Is this where Rings of Power is going?
No living man can kill, Thats so fun because it is just because of technicality that he died
WAIT! So you know I’ve been hounding you for a “What If Sam Kept The Ring?” video for a long while, Matt. How about working in the “What If The Witch King Survived The Battle of Pelennor Fields?” angle and merging those two what-ifs together with Sam and Gollum facing off against the terrifying Black Rider at Mount Doom? 😁🙏😁
Anyway, your “What If…” videos are some of my faves, and it has been too long! We are quite ready for another adventure. ⛵️
Doesn't he have a What if Sam kept the Ring video already?
@@dylandenton7576 Don’t think so?
As far as epithets for evil magical overlords go I think I prefer “Sorcerer King”.
Tolkien's revisions often 'downgraded' the powers of evil.
Presumably, to give our heroes a more realistic chance.
A "wizard" is a "wise one", and a "philosopher" is a "lover of wisdom". A close similarity. Thus a "wizard king" is similar to a "philosopher king". I choose to read in this a warning against Plato's ideal ruler.
No Marcus Aurelius for Middle-Earth then?
Plato or ∞Ploutos the Greek Spirit of Iasiôn (Iasiôn→Ash in Tolkien Legendarium). Iasiôn the One who was proposed to "heal" Middle-earth for Sauron. Ash is Black Speech for One in the Ring Inscription, as he is the First of the Nazgul.
What is Pluto's connection to Numenor? Well isn't he the one who told the great tale of Atlantis? He did choose ∞Sophia (Wisdom) as his overlord, and this can be understood to be Sā (or Sauron→Zeus-Ares) in Tolkien Legendarium.
Wisdom is a funny word. As it is a rendering of Wise-Doom or Wise-Domination. Using knowledge in means to dominate others. This was Sauron's downfall. For knowledge is shared as found in the name of Olorin (Lore) and Mithrandir (Myth) as opposed to being dominated over others.
When are Ur Season 2 Review Coming out, im hoping soon…
Nope. Gandalf faced down all 9 Nazgul at Weathertop.
I think this virson is better
Because he's not useless
Nice
Tar-Atanamir is the Witch King 🗣️
What evidence is there in Tolkien's writings that Sauron even met any king of Númenor before Ar-Pharazôn? It's also really hard to see how Sauron could corrupt the Númenorean king without attracting a lot of attention.
Oh I like that!😁👍🍻🧙♂️🧝♂️🧝♀️🛡🗡🐎
interesting
I would like to see witch king in rings of power, how will he become the witch king
Note: not a fan of rings of power but nor do i hate it
In my own head canon, during one of the occasions that Sauron had been temporarily vanquished, the Witch King had been searching Middle Earth for any artifacts that were left behind by Melkor/Morgoth in hopes of one day severing Sauron's control over him. As fate would have it, he had indeed found several. And he had learned to unlock the power contained within a few of them. Knowing that he would likely be the one to collect the One Ring and bring it to his master Sauron, he waited patiently for his plan to unfold in its due time.
It was the possession of these higher artifacts that increased his own power so greatly. Though he did not yet know how to fully wield such power, being artifacts of Melkor himself, they certainly afforded him protection from the likes of lowly Maiar/Ishtari such a Sauron, Saruman, and Gandalf.
Had the Witch King gained control of the One Ring, and been left to master the artifacts of Melkor, he would have been unstoppable. Leaving the Valar no choice but to directly interviene as they once had with Morgoth.
That's my own little fantasy head canon for the Witch King. It adds another element to the story and serves to tie up a few threads that I thought were rather loose.
The problem is that all the Nazgûl were enslaved to the will of Sauron; they could not choose to act against him.
What if sauron become the king of numenor
There's a good what if for you
He sort of was though 😉
@@AntonSjöstedthe was a king in every way, but the title.
I think that is what Sauron was planning to do when he got Ar-Pharazôn to invade Valinor. He knew Ar-Pharazôn would not be returning but was caught completely by surprise when Ilúvatar sunk the whole island.
😍😍😍
wizard king? you mean witch-king. The witch-king was POSSIBLY from Numenor. Was Wizard king used as a "masculine" word for the character in your video? "Witch" is gender neutral but has traditionally been used for women but through history has been applied to men more and more. In LOTR, "wizard" is a term I've only EVER heard of being applied to the Istari. human sorcerer, maybe? a member of our order? he wasnt an Istari. You are playing a little fast and loose with a thesaurus when it comes to sorcerer, wizard, and such. Tolkien was picky about his words and used them carefully. There was no mistake in his choice of words.
The movie version I like, Sauron has managed to elevate a Man above a Maiar.
Sauron making a human more powerful than himself, a Maiar. yeah no.
The Wizard King of Numenor is one thing, but can someone tell me why the Hell Gandalf is in Rings of Power?
Because he has to get his name. And find his staff. 🤢 🤢… 🤮
@@Firenutz It would have been... SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO much better if it had been one of the Blue Wizards.
Because the people making the show are incompetent and have no regard for what Tolkien actually wrote.
@istari0 i don't even hate the show, it's just a REALLY stupid choice.
👍🏼
Yo
first
Noooo I was just to late
2nd :P
MORE VIDEOS PLZZZZ! And longer! Atleast 30-60min plssss
Was the Witch King one of the Blue Wizards?🤔