When these kind of amplifiers are tested, it can be taken into account that input signal depends on the source if you use pre ampflifier you can get datasheet specs. For example your phone and your computer does not supply the same amount of output voltage so you need to increase it so that your amplifier works efficiently. My tda7377 gives 8-10 watt max when connected directly to phone whereas when I use preamp it gives 35-40watt. This is the main reason why car amplifieres have gain adjustment on them.
I created this circuit on veroboard as it is on datasheet but changed the output coupling capacitor to 1000 uF instead of 2000 uF and tested on 12 Volts @ 4 ohms and the max output was 1 Watts without clipping. I also tested it on 24 Volts @ 4 ohms load when the max output was 6 Watts without clipping.
I had several of this board before. I think it is badly designed. John, If you have chance, please review the TDA7377 and TDA7297 boards. They have good volume and sound to my ears, and run well under 12v.
It was really an interesting note about how a vocal "behaves" after stereo to mono "conversion" (just two resistors I guess). Do we need some advanced DSP to get proper mono sound from a stereo recordings? Or maybe the perfect conversion isn't possible?
Look up Haeco-CSG. It was a system developed back in the 60's to make stereo LPs sound correct on mono equipment. It worked by phase shifting one of the channels. The problem was, it would harm the stereo image. Thankfully they did away with this crap after a couple years.
I really like your amp tests John due to their consistent structure, professionalism and understandability also for non-pros (as I am). One ask, if possible: can you please test TDA7377 2.1 version, as it seems to be a great AB class audio amp for home use. Thank you in advance!
Thank you John, I'd highly appreciate that. As there is literally no professional review of this board on TH-cam, yours could attract a lot of attention, and would be a useful guidance for many fellow TH-camrs ;)
Looks like you can order several varieties from AliExpress, without a heatsink (saving on shipping). This one has a huge honkin' cap: www.aliexpress.com/item/TDA7377-power-amplifier-board-X-35W-35W-fever-materials-automotive-power-amplifier-board-is-better-than/32787501468.html
Were you driving enough input to the amplifier? I would have thought you need to ensure the output is just below clipping level to measure correct output power. Perhaps I missed that bit? 🤔
I understand that using a the portable music player is very convenient. Have you considered using a system CD player for test tones? I've used one in the past, and it had a flatter output than an mp3 player, particularly in the high end.
One thing that I have noticed on many of these low cost Chinese boards is that there are typically no mounting provisions (screw holes or the like) for the board. There is not enough room to drill your own holes, nor does it look as if the boards can be slid into the PCB guides in a project box. Just wonder, how does the supplier expect you to build these boards into a presentable project? (Please don't say the "national fastener of China" - hot glue)
Another good one John. It's rather confusing out there. American amp. chips are up rated at stupid levels of distortion (10%) and Chinese clones need derating by 50%. LM317HVT - $3.36 and $218.29 postage :- plccenter (117659) on EBAY. ( I can get 5 from China for about $3 free postage and they didn't melt at over 1 amp). Rather an OTT example but anything to the UK from the USA is roughly 3 times the cost in the USA. I'll stick to my soggy little plastic bags from China and keep my fingers crossed.
I am wondering what is the difference between power audio amplifier and power opamp? It seems obvious that power opamp could be used as audio amp, but could audio power amp IC be used for opamp applications?
I would say yes. I was told by a Texas Instruments engineer that the LM675 is the same as the LM1875 audio amp IC but was selected to be used as an op amp (675) due to the tighter DC characteristics.
I'm afraid Maddy Prior's voice isn't what it was. Went to a Steeleye Span gig earlier this year and they could have done with your expertise as sound engineer -- the sound was appalling: grossly over-loud and distorting mid range. Perhaps they were using Banggood gear :)
That's a shame. Live sound is often put on so poorly. I heard Steeleye doesn't play much of their early material live (music up through "Parcel of Rogues"). Is that true?
Funnily enough, they did most of "Hark! The Village Wait". Otherwise I think you're correct. Peter Knight goes from strength to strength with his Gigspanner band since he left. Worth checking out for some outstanding fiddle playing.
What about farting speakers? I built this guitar amp using LM386 and it works, but my speaker is farting real bad lol I don't know if it's because of little power or filters... The design is pretty simple, I feed my guitar signal to a buffer that I made using the chip uA741 and then, for distortion and a little power, the LM386. My speaker is rated 3W, but the LM386M doesn't give even 0.3W of power. I was thinking in using the TDA2030 for a little bit more power, I guess I can manage to reach 4.5W.
Based on the description, I'm thinking that "farting" is related to "motorboating". First thing I'd do is but a power supply bypass cap right across the power leads of the IC.
Guys, thx for the help! I think I know what the problem is. A friend of mine told me to measure and make sure if my speaker's impedance is indeed what is supposed to be. LM386's datasheet suggests that we should use 4 ohm loads for the output at least and my speaker's impedance is 2 ohm, not 4, it says it is 4 ohm, but it's not! It lies! lol I will have to buy another speaker and try it out to see if I can get better results.
I had seen them before your review, but since then, I bought several and have made a nice little stereo bench amp built entirely from dollar store parts - 2 amps, USB power supply, USB cord and stereo patch cord. Even the nuts, bolts and washers used for the speaker binding posts. Yes, I cut opposite input traces on the amps, tied the input jacks together and the power leads also. With a healthy enough input level and good speakers, they are decently loud and quite good sounding for what amounts to a little over $5 in investment.
you know how they use to say "if it's made in Japan it's junk", well Japan got their stuff together. Now, "if it's made in China it's junk". the engineers in China most be idiots, oh wait,... "they are made in China".
All depends, something like an iPhone is "world class" quality, stuff like Banggood products can be quite a bit below the bottom of the barrel. Chinese stuff is very inconsistent.
If the Chinese insist on copying other companys chips at least they should try to make them as good as the originals. Couldnt be that much more expensive.
@Joseph Nicholas the "chip" may be as good as the original but the module is built as a low power amp , im not sure how much it could be improved by fitting bigger (and higher voltage) caps onto the same board and a bigger heatsink , if the noise figures stay the same and power goes up it would be ok , but then better to buy a kit and improve as you build :-)
When I decapped the IC to see the silicon die inside, they used a much smaller part to cut costs. They do this with transistors also. Of course, the transistor can't handle the same current the original one did and can fail under use.
@JohnAudioTech i didnt realize they actually changed anything , i just thought they used cheaper manufacturing processes to get the price lower , it still seems to be good value for a reasonable amp , when you played the music through it thats about as loud as i like to listen :-)
@Peter Ridge i have seen videos of people grinding into chip cards and micro controllers and although i can see patterns on them i have no idea what any of it is , i have popped of the top of various to220 packaged devices and all i see is a small grey square , i have recently bought a tiny microscope thing with led s on it (from china) to read part No.s on smd parts , ill have to look at the grey squares with that and see if i can make any sense of the "chip" :-)
@1959Berre it says, " Mono 18 w power amplifier circuit design." on the store page, so getting 1.5 watts out is very bad. yes I know it does not say 18 w amp but it is still very misleading.
@@gamedemo6589 Not sure how that even applies to my comment. There not great amps and the fake amps are even worse, so the power they can take and make is very limited. The TDA 7293 is much better even the fakes sound good and make pretty good power.
![[Part 1] ทารกน้อยถูกทิ้ง👶 หญิงชราเก็บขวดขายเลี้ยงดูเขาจนโต #โลกการละคร](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/nPTDvFCExks/mqdefault.jpg)
When these kind of amplifiers are tested, it can be taken into account that input signal depends on the source if you use pre ampflifier you can get datasheet specs. For example your phone and your computer does not supply the same amount of output voltage so you need to increase it so that your amplifier works efficiently. My tda7377 gives 8-10 watt max when connected directly to phone whereas when I use preamp it gives 35-40watt. This is the main reason why car amplifieres have gain adjustment on them.
I created this circuit on veroboard as it is on datasheet but changed the output coupling capacitor to 1000 uF instead of 2000 uF and tested on 12 Volts @ 4 ohms and the max output was 1 Watts without clipping. I also tested it on 24 Volts @ 4 ohms load when the max output was 6 Watts without clipping.
I had several of this board before. I think it is badly designed. John, If you have chance, please review the TDA7377 and TDA7297 boards. They have good volume and sound to my ears, and run well under 12v.
It was really an interesting note about how a vocal "behaves" after stereo to mono "conversion" (just two resistors I guess). Do we need some advanced DSP to get proper mono sound from a stereo recordings? Or maybe the perfect conversion isn't possible?
Look up Haeco-CSG. It was a system developed back in the 60's to make stereo LPs sound correct on mono equipment. It worked by phase shifting one of the channels. The problem was, it would harm the stereo image. Thankfully they did away with this crap after a couple years.
If the left channel is an inversion of the right channel, they will cancel each other out. I assume this is the reason for the phase shift?
Everything less than 5 bucks is worth it for me!!! No whining! 😁
Unless you can make it by yourself!
I really like your amp tests John due to their consistent structure, professionalism and understandability also for non-pros (as I am). One ask, if possible: can you please test TDA7377 2.1 version, as it seems to be a great AB class audio amp for home use.
Thank you in advance!
I might check that one out. It is not very expensive.
Thank you John, I'd highly appreciate that. As there is literally no professional review of this board on TH-cam, yours could attract a lot of attention, and would be a useful guidance for many fellow TH-camrs ;)
Looks like you can order several varieties from AliExpress, without a heatsink (saving on shipping). This one has a huge honkin' cap:
www.aliexpress.com/item/TDA7377-power-amplifier-board-X-35W-35W-fever-materials-automotive-power-amplifier-board-is-better-than/32787501468.html
Were you driving enough input to the amplifier?
I would have thought you need to ensure the output is just below clipping level to measure correct output power.
Perhaps I missed that bit? 🤔
Yes, that is how I measure output. Max signal before clipping.
If you put 4ohms speaker how many watts can you get?
If you put 8ohms speaker how many watts can you get?
In 12v DC
???????
I understand that using a the portable music player is very convenient. Have you considered using a system CD player for test tones? I've used one in the past, and it had a flatter output than an mp3 player, particularly in the high end.
One thing that I have noticed on many of these low cost Chinese boards is that there are typically no mounting provisions (screw holes or the like) for the board. There is not enough room to drill your own holes, nor does it look as if the boards can be slid into the PCB guides in a project box. Just wonder, how does the supplier expect you to build these boards into a presentable project? (Please don't say the "national fastener of China" - hot glue)
I have test this amplifier ,very nice sound detail n good bass ,but very bad at high volume lots of distorsion 😆
Hallo John, did you do a review or test on the Yamaha YDA 138-E bluetooth amp board, I cannot seem to find the video? Thanks.
A bigger heat sink and a higher uf cap can give us little more power?try making another video modding this thing!
Another good one John. It's rather confusing out there. American amp. chips are up rated at stupid levels of distortion (10%) and Chinese clones need derating by 50%.
LM317HVT - $3.36 and $218.29 postage :- plccenter (117659) on EBAY. ( I can get 5 from China for about $3 free postage and they didn't melt at over 1 amp).
Rather an OTT example but anything to the UK from the USA is roughly 3 times the cost in the USA. I'll stick to my soggy little plastic bags from China and keep my fingers crossed.
Another good video. Thanks John
What if we change the cap?what cap value do you recommend ?
What audio voltage are you feeding into the amp ( pre amp output) ?
I have same one.
John, I would like to send you a piece (3pieces) of some speakers so you can keep for yourself or make a video on. 1 sub, 2 stereo
Why you test 12v amp chip on 8 ohm load?
It's must be max 4 ohm
Wot? Did you watch the WHOLE video?
th-cam.com/video/v0ppxc77j98/w-d-xo.html
@@Kolfonik yes?
@@Arhentir There you go.
I am wondering what is the difference between power audio amplifier and power opamp? It seems obvious that power opamp could be used as audio amp, but could audio power amp IC be used for opamp applications?
I would say yes. I was told by a Texas Instruments engineer that the LM675 is the same as the LM1875 audio amp IC but was selected to be used as an op amp (675) due to the tighter DC characteristics.
That's interesting topic. Thanks.
What is the specification of speaker on which you are playing the music?
It is a speaker I built. Uses a 10" woofer and a pioneer horn tweeter that's been tamed down. 1.5 Cu ft (425L) ported cabinet.
I'm afraid Maddy Prior's voice isn't what it was. Went to a Steeleye Span gig earlier this year and they could have done with your expertise as sound engineer -- the sound was appalling: grossly over-loud and distorting mid range. Perhaps they were using Banggood gear :)
That's a shame. Live sound is often put on so poorly. I heard Steeleye doesn't play much of their early material live (music up through "Parcel of Rogues"). Is that true?
Funnily enough, they did most of "Hark! The Village Wait". Otherwise I think you're correct. Peter Knight goes from strength to strength with his Gigspanner band since he left. Worth checking out for some outstanding fiddle playing.
What about farting speakers? I built this guitar amp using LM386 and it works, but my speaker is farting real bad lol
I don't know if it's because of little power or filters...
The design is pretty simple, I feed my guitar signal to a buffer that I made using the chip uA741 and then, for distortion and a little power, the LM386.
My speaker is rated 3W, but the LM386M doesn't give even 0.3W of power.
I was thinking in using the TDA2030 for a little bit more power, I guess I can manage to reach 4.5W.
A farting sound usually mean the amplifier is oscillating. Look up "star ground layout" to help clear that up.
Based on the description, I'm thinking that "farting" is related to "motorboating". First thing I'd do is but a power supply bypass cap right across the power leads of the IC.
Guys, thx for the help!
I think I know what the problem is. A friend of mine told me to measure and make sure if my speaker's impedance is indeed what is supposed to be. LM386's datasheet suggests that we should use 4 ohm loads for the output at least and my speaker's impedance is 2 ohm, not 4, it says it is 4 ohm, but it's not! It lies! lol
I will have to buy another speaker and try it out to see if I can get better results.
So what you are really saying is that amp out of the Dollar Store amplified speaker is a better buy? ;)
Yes!
I had seen them before your review, but since then, I bought several and have made a nice little stereo bench amp built entirely from dollar store parts - 2 amps, USB power supply, USB cord and stereo patch cord. Even the nuts, bolts and washers used for the speaker binding posts. Yes, I cut opposite input traces on the amps, tied the input jacks together and the power leads also. With a healthy enough input level and good speakers, they are decently loud and quite good sounding for what amounts to a little over $5 in investment.
Here's the proof at my local Dollar Store: s5.postimg.cc/oe32zg8rb/Dollar_Store_Amp_Parts.jpg
Next time when you review amps... Plzz calculate efficiency.... That's helps.... & is that worth it or not.... That would be nice.... 😅😅😉😉
Please tell the ways to identify an authentic and fake Tda2030A chips
Look up my counterfeit parts video. I has some tips
you know how they use to say "if it's made in Japan it's junk", well Japan got their stuff together. Now, "if it's made in China it's junk". the engineers in China most be idiots, oh wait,... "they are made in China".
The worst idiots are those who buy from them.
very very true
They probably tell you it is max 12 volt because it is not the original chip but a clone.
China made items are not that bad 😊
All depends, something like an iPhone is "world class" quality, stuff like Banggood products can be quite a bit below the bottom of the barrel. Chinese stuff is very inconsistent.
@@davekazoroski6548 It all depends on how much you're willing to spend.
what do you think about this TDA2030 build? any good? th-cam.com/video/Y7O8vXPZHgw/w-d-xo.html
Is it wise to buy electronics from Banggood 💥 😂
If the Chinese insist on copying other companys chips at least they should try to make them as good as the originals. Couldnt be that much more expensive.
@Joseph Nicholas
the "chip" may be as good as the original but the module is built as a low power amp , im not sure how much it could be improved by fitting bigger (and higher voltage) caps onto the same board and a bigger heatsink , if the noise figures stay the same and power goes up it would be ok , but then better to buy a kit and improve as you build :-)
When I decapped the IC to see the silicon die inside, they used a much smaller part to cut costs. They do this with transistors also. Of course, the transistor can't handle the same current the original one did and can fail under use.
Die comparison video! Seeing what you're getting as compared to the real thing is a worthy follow up to the review.
@JohnAudioTech
i didnt realize they actually changed anything , i just thought they used cheaper manufacturing processes to get the price lower , it still seems to be good value for a reasonable amp , when you played the music through it thats about as loud as i like to listen :-)
@Peter Ridge
i have seen videos of people grinding into chip cards and micro controllers and although i can see patterns on them i have no idea what any of it is , i have popped of the top of various to220 packaged devices and all i see is a small grey square , i have recently bought a tiny microscope thing with led s on it (from china) to read part No.s on smd parts , ill have to look at the grey squares with that and see if i can make any sense of the "chip" :-)
If it is junk, John will say so. BTW, what did you expect, the damned thing costs a dollar and cents a piece.
@1959Berre it says, " Mono 18 w power amplifier circuit design." on the store page, so getting 1.5 watts out is very bad. yes I know it does not say 18 w amp but it is still very misleading.
@@99Duds use 35volt!
@@gamedemo6589 Not sure how that even applies to my comment. There not great amps and the fake amps are even worse, so the power they can take and make is very limited. The TDA 7293 is much better even the fakes sound good and make pretty good power.