Historian Reacts - Charlemagne (Part 1) by HistoryMarche
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- See the original video here - • Charlemagne (Part 1/2)...
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Charlemagne's father Peppin was the first of the Carolingians to wear the crown.
But his grandfather Charles Martell was really the one who made the dynasty kings. Kinda like how Julius Caesar never had the title of emperor himself.
It's always fun to see how everything connects- Charles Martel was "the Hammer" who defeated the Moors at Tours and helped to save mainland Europe. His son Peppin become king and his grandson Charles became Emperor of the Franks.
Neither did Augustus. Or Majorian. Or literally any emperor until Constantine XI lol
For the long time viewers, in case you are unaware (or it just slipped your mind), this is the emperor that started that conflict with the pope that we saw on Oversimplified's "War of the bucket".
Bless you for confirming my suspicion without the need for checking Wikipedia
No its not.
Sheldon has challenged your claim
@@eutropius2699 Sheldon is wrong. Just watched it.
Charlemagne: "Oh! I did not expect this! What an honor! I simply cannot accept. "
Pope Leo X: "... okay then, I guess we'll just put this back down over here...."
Charlemagne: "Gimme that crown!!!"
History Oversimplified?
So who had more -power over who? The pope or the emperor? I’m sure this conflict won’t case anyone…..TO DIE!
I didn't know about HistoryMarche but I instantly subscribed after I saw the first few minutes of this video! I love his narration! A really engaging voice to listen to!
They have great series about Hannibal, Caesar and Michael the Brave.
Fun fact: Sir Christopher Lee is a direct descendant of King Charlemagne and sung multiple metal albums in the role of Charlemagne.
In his 90s.
In his 90s?! Awesome.
Sir Christopher Lee is the ultimate chad, james bond is supposably based off of him
Christopher Lee was the most interesting man in the world. Dude had an absolutely crazy life. Nazi Hunter, famous actor, descended from Charlemagne, heavy metal artist, renowned sword fighter.
Yeah, but that's kinda bs. Basically every white european that lives today is a descendant of Charlemagne, as you are a descendent of most people living back then. When you go that far back in time the family trees get just so overblown and intertwined that the basic idea of descendance and lineage becomes completely redundant.
@@CaptainBohnenbrot I agree, its only interesting when you can actually trace it back. Its like saying you're a descendant of genghis khan
The deciding battle that established the border between Christian France and Muslim Spain was the Battle of Tours, in which Charlemagne's grandfather Charles Martell was the great hero of the day. That battle was a big part of how the Carolingians gained the legitimacy to take the crown of the Franks from their Merowingian sovereigns.
Man, I wish I had gotten more sleep last night.
I’m very excited that we’re going back to some Middle Ages content, aside from the Civil War it’s my favorite area of study. I’ve got the Dan Jones book on my Christmas list and have been researching my dads line which we believe goes back to Charlemagne so this is perfect and perfect timing. Thanks!!!
28:17 This is why Edward III could not claim the throne of France, since he was linked to Phillipe IV the Fair through his Mother, not his Father.
While watching Vikings TV show, the king spoke about having to stay in Charlemagne's court when he was young. It hadn't clicked for me until then that it was around the same time period. I thought that was cool
I've only recently begun to watch your videos.
Your reactions are incredibly entertaining, and you've got a new fan!
Greetings from Germany!
Also a fan of Dan Jones. I did his Templars and British royal family books. Definitely going check out that new book. Thanks for that and all the videos!
One of Jones' earlier books is "Summer of Blood", about the 1381 Peasants' Revolt. Not to be overlooked among his better-known titles. Fascinating.
I recently did a paper on the Titels of charlemagne in diplomatic sources and its fascination how after the conquest of the lombards different titles get used for the same king depending on which part of the empire you are in
For example, the vir inluster, that had been use by Pippin and Charles never found a single usage in Italy, this is likely because while in Francia it accumulated connotations of power through the usage by the majors of the palace that were the acting kings, for the lombards it was the title of a lower official
I got like 15 pages worth of stuff like this
Does this paper have a DOI? I'really love to read about such "mundane" sides of history.
Thanks for pointing out the book - looks interesting & I'm looking forward to listening to it =)
Actually, it was divided among the grandsons as Charlemagne had only one surviving son when he died.
I love History Marche. No humour, lots of information, cool maps, animations and illustrations.
Fun fact: The late Sir Christopher Lee traced his lineage back to Charlemagne. That's why it was the name of his heavy metal band.
I've found there's a significant discrepancy between Anglophone and French historiography on the topic of the Holy Roman Empire (don't know about German but I would assume the same): for most French historians, the HRE is born in 962, with the coronation of Otto I, not in 800.
Otto, who was already king of East Francia/Germany and duke of Saxony, was the first emperor to establish a lasting non-Frankish and non-Carolingian imperial dynasty on the throne after the death of Emperor Berengar I of Friuli, the last Carolingian emperor, in 924 (who only ruled over northern Italy at this point). The reason for placing the birth of the Holy Roman Empire there is because as a non-Carolingian and a non-Frank, Otto's ascension kind of sealed the coffin of reuniting the Carolingian Empire like past emperors such as Charles the Fat had between 884 and 887. It's also why French historiography separates the Carolingian Empire from the HRE, and also calls the latter "Holy Roman *Germanic* Empire" ("Saint Empire romain germanique") because it was centered on German-speaking regions.
Due to national myths and competition to appropriate Charlemagne in the 19th century, for a long time, French history textbooks depicted Charlemagne as a king of France or at least part of the line that would become French kings.
Its the same in German Historiography as in the French. some reasons for this is the tradition of the annales school and other similiar influences between us, while anglo historiography is fundamentally different to a french/german and general european tradition.
It has to start in 800, without Charles the great there’s is no HRE 😂. He reconstituted an empire of any kind in Europe, that has to be genesis of the HRE, and the kingdom of France both.
welcome to maryland! and i might have to download Jones' book.
You should react to whatifalthist (I know you reacted to one whatifalthist but he has a lot of other stuff)and biographies
I like how you bring up examples from other time periods in history to prove your point abt something
I've heard that stick figure excuse from so many of my students in art classes. I always managed to push them forward.
Yep. Drawing is largely an academic skill that almost anyone can learn. It takes practice and some guidance, but is certainly learnable.
Didn't know Dan Jones had a new book. I'll have to grab a copy!
I live in the city of Dortmund, the Sigiburg ist part of the territory. I think I would have died back than. Charlemagne is a very controversial personality. Especially through his "baptism or die" policy. On the other hand he was good for unification and standardization, like a unified style of writing wit the Carolingian minuscle, a more centralized government structure etc.
I've always loved reading Dan Jones books in School. Also i used to live in Church Creek Maryland. I was in Kindergarten during 911 and they put the school on lockdown when it all went down but Some of the nicest people I've known have been in Maryland.
Very good video. Interestingly my mother in law from Madagascar said they used to sing a song of praise to Charlemagne in school. Like in the 1940’s.
Wasn't it a song (for kids) about how he "invented" school ? If that's the case, it's a French song that was probably imported in Madagascar because it was a French colony. If it's not the case and it's another song, it's very intriguing.
There was also the phase of the Tetrarchy where each half had TWO rulers (an imperator and an caesar or Sithmaster and Sithstudent ;)) and thus usually two capitals... while one tended to stay in Italy, the other often went up to gaul or Germania... wherever the need to centralize government was the greatest at the time.
Ohoh... was Pepin ever "king"? I thought he still was just majordomus.... ("Hausmeier", head of the household or maybe "Stewart" in english)
France is called #the elder daughter of the Church" due to all the occasions pope asked help from France and been protected
Historymarche also Kings and generals are two superb history channels that you definitely at least should subscribe to.
Charles Martell losing the Battle of Tours is sure one of the most massive "what ifs'" in history.
(Frederick local) I hope y'all got to enjoy the town.
Great small city with good food. If you are back in the region for other history videos, you should check would Brewer's Alley, or some of Brian Voltaggio's restaurants.
I love me some HistoryMarche.
The Pope's move to delegitimize Irene will lead to Great Schism (which happened hundreds of years after)
I don't know if calling the Carolingian empire the "Holy Roman Empire" yet is a good idea. The HRE that we generally think of was pretty different in terms of structure and territories, and more Germanic in nature (even if northern Italy was part of it).
But I guess historians don't all agree about that name thing. While the Carolingian empire is clearly the root, I think Otto I's empire (which he revived on the occasion) was different enough to be considered another entity.
On a side note, the name Holy Roman Empire won't even be used until the 13th century.
And afaik the Germans didn't consider the 1st reich to begin with Charlemagne's empire, they called his empire the "Fränkisches Reich". I may have missed something but it seems the first reich (for them) begins with Otto I's Holy Roman Empire.
Yeah, the Carolingian empire is more of a proto HRE. In theory it would count since all German kings and emperors do count themselves as Charlemagne's successors. They were making a pretty big deal about Charlemagne being the first "German" to receive the Roman imperial dignity from the pope.
In terms of state continuity it's tricky. The foundational kingdom of the HRE which was East Francia (later Germany) got created by Charlemagne as well. It's just that the dynastic make-up changed but it's all very much connected.
"And afaik the Germans didn't consider the 1st reich to begin with Charlemagne's empire, they called his empire the "Fränkisches Reich". I may have missed something but it seems the first reich (for them) begins with Otto I's Holy Roman Empire."
That's also tricky to say. The term "first Reich" assumes a succesion of German "Reichs", to get to the "Third Reich".
Commonly historians like to start the "deutsches Reich" meaning the medieval kingdom of Germany with Otto's father Henry I, as he was the one turning the former Frankish kingdom into one that was ruled over by Saxons and other tribes and thus losing its distinct Frankish identity.
Charlemagne does play a certain role in German history but if you want to be technical: he didn't start anything new. He just expanded the realm his forefathers had established centuries ago into the Germanic world. His main achievement for the self-image of the later HRE is receiving the imperial title from the hands of the pope.
@@Siegbert85 I think viewing it as the start makes sense. There hadn’t been any emperor in Europe since the time of the Romans.
Roman Empire didn’t fall with the west it endured till 1453
Have you watched the HBO series on Teddy Roosevelt's trip to the amazon? I personally thought it was good but not sure how historically accurate it is.
U mentioned Napoleon in comparison to charlemagne, which makes me think it seems every thousand years some great leader just takes all of francr and everything around it dealing with germanic headaches the entire time. Ceasar. Charlemagne. Napoleon. Like clockwork.
5:45 me too Chris me too
Feminine form of basileus would be basilissa. End the Byzantine idea was that the empror is the secular sovereign over the whole Christianity. As God was one, there could be only one emperor.
The church remains officially unified across east and west until 254 years later in 1054.
Yeah they used to fight over the title of mayor of the palace. That person was the one who had the power and up until his grandfather the king was just an elected position and as stated had no power.
The big dawg of europe
If you really like HistoryMarche's content you should check out their documentary on Caesar's civil war, I think you'll enjoy it.
Kid Charlemagne:
While the music played, you worked by candlelight
Those San Francisco nights
You were the best in town
Just by chance you crossed the diamond with the pearl
You turned it on the world
That's when you turned the world around
(Did you feel like Jesus?)
Did you realize
That you were a champion in their eyes?
On the hill the stuff was laced with kerosene
But yours was kitchen-clean
Everyone stopped to stare at your technicolor motor home
Every A-Frame had your number on the wall
You must have had it all
You'd go to L.A. on a dare and you'd go it alone
(Could you live forever?)
Could you see the day?
Could you feel your whole world fall apart and fade away?
Now your patrons have all left you in the red
Your low-rent friends are dead
This life can be very strange
All those day-glo freaks who used to paint the face
They've joined the human race
Some things will never change
(Son, you were mistaken)
You are obsolete
Look at all the white men on the street
Clean this mess up else we'll all end up in jail
Those test-tubes and the scale
Just get it all out of here
Is there gas in the car?
Yes, there's gas in the car
I think the people down the hall know who you are
'Cause the man is wise
You are still an outlaw in their eyes.
Thank you 🙏
Awesome video as usual. Constructive criticism: level your audio. The watched video is too quiet and then BOOM your comment is earsplitting. OK I'm exaggerating a bit. I'm only noticing this now cuz listening to on phone where on my computer I use a multiband compressor (Breakaway). I mention this only because if you are using something similar you might not be noticing this in playback. Keep up the good work!
Now I want to play a game of risk
Do you plan to visit Aachen on your next visit to Europe? Or maybe the next next visit?
You should react to one of fire of learnings vids
Charle's Martel is most famous for the Battle of Tour's against the Muslims. The Umayyad Caliphate, which stretched from the Middle-East across North Africa into Iberia, had launched an invasion of southern France possibly with the aims of incorporating it into the Caliphate like they did the Visigoths of Iberia. Charles, king of the franks, met them on the field of Battle and decisively defeating them earning his nickname, the Hammer (of the Moors). It is widely regarded as the end of Umayyad expansion into Europe, and some even speculate that if Charles Martel had lost at Tours, western Europe may have suffered the same fate as Iberia.
Of course, more than likely the Moors wouldnt be able to expand past Southern France, but it is an important moment in history none the less
I would rather say that the important battles that stopped muslims advance into western Europe was the early battles of the kingdoms in Northern Spain and most of all the Battle of Tours/Poltiers when Charles Martel, Charlemagne's grandfather defeated a muslim army in southern France in 732.
It's pretty crazy how the Anglo-Saxons in England converted to Christianity sooner than their mainland cousins, You'd think it'd be the other way around considering England is an island and more isolated
Insular Saxons came into contact and intermingled with local population that had christian traditions since emperor Constantine. Continental Saxons were actually more isolated as there were not much "international" contacts except for trade or in the frontiers.
Charlemagne was a uniter of Western Europe for sure, Franks, but there was a chic on the throne in the East...they said the pope picked him because he wasn't a she.
27:07 they also have problems with the Bulgarians
How about a video of Charles Martel and his defeat of the Islamic invasion of France?
How long would’ve a trip from Old Saxony to Pavia taken back then?
Couple of weeks, I guess.
What is Dan Jones's best book?
It was Charlemagne's fault that WWI started. Look which territories his sons got and what we have been fighting over i Europe.
There was not a 'official' split between the Eastern Church and the Western Church until the Great Schism of 1054
There's another interesting component to this story which (I think) is often overlooked in favor of political, dynastic and military developments. Following the Council of Nicaea in the 4th century there were no fewer than five Patriarchs, of which the Pontiff of Rome was only one. You would have had a Bishop (often called "Pope") of Rome, Constantinople, Alexandria, Antioch and Jerusalem, and the early Roman Papacy was dominated by Greek speaking Popes from these Eastern Sees. These five Patriarchs formed a coalition called the Pentarchy, and the Bishop of Rome laid claim to something akin to 'First amongst equals' as established at the Nicaea. By 800 these five Patriarchs still existed, but Jerusalem, Antioch and Alexandria were all under Muslim political rule (the Patriarchs still existed as the heads of each Christian community, and do so unbroken to today in most cases), which left The Roman Pope faced with only a single potentially intransigent bloc of power within the church: The Patriarch of Constantinople.
While the political machinations of the two 'Popes' of the two remaining great capitols of Christendom eventually resulted in a revival of the Eastern and Western Empires in name (if not exactly reality, the HRE was not the Western Roman Empire in makeup, organization nor identity), I'd argue that this political development of 'rival' Roman Empires set the stage for the eventual ecclesiastical split between the Catholic and Orthodox Churches in the 11th century. Couple this with the Turkish capture of Jerusalem, and the final remaining seat of the Pentarchy over a Christian city was defaulted to the Roman Pontiff we now call The Pope.
I've been doing genealogical research and TODAY found out that I'm verrrry distantly related to Charlemagne! Awesome video as always.
You and everybody else
@@Siegbert85 Exactly.
Isn't a president/leaders job to do what's best for their people?...
Why should they care about other people or problems outside their realm.
What do you about England from 410 ad-793ad?
What do you know about England from 410ad 793ad
Everytime you mention a book I go to the local bookstore and I spend money
Please do a reaction to the Hannibal series by HistoryMarche.
I had a college professor who used to say about the Holy Roman Empire "It wasn't very holy, it wasn't very Roman and it wasn't much of an Empire" He always called it the 2nd Roman Empire not the Holy Roman Empire. I always get a laugh when the HRE is mentioned.
So your college professor lifted a misquoted line from Voltaire 😂
@@LouisKing995 yes he did. I always got a kick out of that quote
In some way I feel like that should have been in a Monty Python movie lol "Well, I don't see that I have enough of a reason to kill that man... I know! I'll blind the buggar." idk the thought process of most people back then I know some methods were... brutal to say the least, but what a great compromise, like its so noble to not kill the person they'll just take away their eyesight for life; of the pope no less lol!
Am I the only person who thinks the person talking sounds exactly like the narrator from the original walking with monsters and walking with dinosaurs
yuhhhh
Hope your time in Frederick is great! I'm a Frederick native. (come to Frederick Church of the Brethren if you have time haha)
He wrote my hometown wrong :(
Padeborn = Paderborn
You should play TW Atilla on History Guy Gaming, there's a dlc that let's you play the campaign during the Age of Charlemagne. You can control all of the factions around the Mediterranean.
The trailer for the dlc is pretty awesome too. th-cam.com/video/RNOy63UZXvM/w-d-xo.html
I'm surprised that you haven't touched Napoleon, Shogun, Rome 2, Atilla, or Medieval TWs yet. I believe there's a mod that let's you play the American Civil War for Napoleon as well.
I HAVE TO WAIT 2 HOURS???????????????????????
You should watch "Who has the best claim to the title of roman emperor today" by UsefulCharts
Von Clausewitz asserted that the main thing was not to acquire territory but to destroy the enemy's army. In more modern terms, you must destroy the enemy's ability to fight, which has led to war against industrial capacity. Against modern sensibilities, there is only one rule in war, win at all costs that do not cost you the next war. That is why Christians should never go to war. Our calling is to lead people to a saving knowledge of Jesus and that does not happen at the point of a sword.
Hey you should react to the armchair historians new video about the first battle of Vietnam
Charlemagne made the vikings raids the needed the money to recist him.
Now imagine if Charle the Great and Empress Irene got married, man, how history would have changed.
Otto III tried to pull this one with princess (and future empress) Zoë Porphyrogenita, but he died just before they got officially married..
I love you channel, man its so dope. I'd love to just discuss or just take classes on different subjects and just debate and pick each others minds.
I was always loved history out of my friends and based our decisons whether life, business kind of on that referencing things in history.
But i know you kind of avoid it but I'd love to see just your views on current events if there is an open channel you can express on without anyone getting offeneded.
I feel like we're going way from our American principles where we can discuss our views and politics with complete respect and manner regardless if you disagree or think is just outrageous (lol I discussed the CCP's Hybrid capitalist's/socialist economy with a friend that well basically pointed out the basic pros of a dictatorship.
IMO and obviously to our knowledge as a human race democracy is better, but with every big cons the corrupt beuracrtatic process that can be manipulated by free/open trade.
SOrry a bit drunk, but hey who doesn't like to drink and debate things! GOT reference intended.
But, you really hit what like history buff hobysits and armchair historians love. Your enthusiasm really makes me just want to get into history as a career field rather than the typical parent saying "thers no money in that!"
Because i love it, i love it more when I dont know and i can just indulge all this information like a sponge.
I take everyones opinion's including myself's with a grain of salt when it comes to history, but I love your material.
Its unbiased, it makes your viewers think.
Like im 32 im not sure how much older I am,. but rather than watching historical war films which I absolutely enjoyed watching. You're videos with context explain by an educator would do miles in terms of evaluating human history and society/social tendencies and apply them today.
One of the best channels in youtube and i hope you all the success. Im not going to lie your reaction videos is what caught me, but they were so good it made me want to look into your other orignal videos like your trips to see your educated opinion on history.
i would have loved to have you as a history teacher or professor just to like pick your brain. Man your students are so lucky!
How popes chosen at this time? How did Pope Leo ascend while being so unpopular?
There was no unified election procedure at the time (Somewhat modern procedure was invented in 1059). Before this pope was proclaimed by high priesthood in attendance (sometime at lombard, byazntine or frankish swordpoint) something akin to roman emperor being "elected" by the Senate. Also being popular with (and being proclaimed the pope by) with church dignitary doesn't always mean that new pope was popular among local population or feudals.
We in Germany call Charlemagne “Karl der Große
Can you react to WW2 from India’s perspective by Armchair Historian?
The Power for the Carolingian dynasty comes from ther role as "maior palatii" in the end of merowingen dynasty. A few major steps where set here also. For exampel that all Franks where catholic, many othere germanic tribes where different kind of christians. So there was a kind of natural connection to the pope.
"Better end of the deal" for Charlemagne? The Pope has not that postition in the chruch like centurys later. There where many bishops with mutch more power that the pope. With the coronation of the emperor he gets so mutch more influence. In the upcoming centurys there is the allways ongoing conflict of who has more power. The Pope or the emperor, and because of the coronation ceremony the pope won this fight. So in my opinion the Chruch/Pope got the mutch better end of the deal. In the short and in the long run!
Id love to see you react to a topic of something that you dont know anything about.
I did...Admiral Yi and Simon Bolivar are a few.
I'm actually related to Charlemagne through my Mom's side.
you and everybody else
@@Siegbert85 Yeah, Charlemagne has dozens of wives, concubines, and mistresses from whom many, *many* children were born (I don't think the Christian churches had specifically enforced monogamy quite yet, but I might be wrong). It's kind of like Temujin for specifically France and other parts of Western Europe.
charlemagne didnt do anything in italy
Very interested. My genealogical charts show I am descended from him more than 1000 different ways
So am I 😳
mmeeee too
It is to be expected... every one of us has about 2^30 ancestors that lived in that period... which is over a billion, and way more people than had ever lived in the whole world over the course of the entire humans history... so most of those ancestors are in fact present multiple times! This is true for every person living nowadays
I don't like the choice of image for him, having a long beard and wearing the traditional garb of the Holy Roman Emperors that wasn't around until several centuries after him.
Not only is it anachronistic, it also takes a one-sided view of him showing him as one of Germany's kings/emperors rather than France's. The crown of the HRE had no connection to the French monarchy at all. It was the one the kings of Germany got crowned with in Aachen and possibly again after that in Rome.
France clearly views him as one of their greatest kings who also happened to conquer a whole lot of what would become Germany and Italy.
Holy shit, never knew Karl der Große is Charlemagne. I thought those were completely different persons.
Fyi the feminine form of Basileus is Basilissa iirc. Also the B should really be pronounced as a V in Greek, so it's Vasileus, where the Russian name of Vasily is derived from (and probably many other Eastern European derivatives)
Would be interesting to learn, where the various "the Greats" got that from, who invented it, for what reason. And when. Like before or after their death.
And how many The Greats survived into todays history books. I once heard someone calling Kaiser Wilhelm "the Great. That hasn't survived.
Who is a better conqueror of France Charlemagne or Napoleon
Neither of them _conquered_ France. Charlemagne inherited the throne of the Franks and Napoleon staged a coup to get all the revolution bullshit behind him/them (the French people).
What's "better"? Napoleon managed to occupy more territory but lost it all in his life time while Charlemagne's empire persisted for at least another generation.
@@Siegbert85 you gotta remember that napoleon took on pretty much what one might say, the world like 6 times and on top of that he had to deal with a navy that choked the life out of his empire, that's just my thoughts on napoleon, I don't know much about Charlemagne
@@jackcrawford4025 Yes, he was a very capable military commander.
Charlemagne didn't have as capable adversaries maybe but his reign did have a considerable impact.
Good point! Just like Churchill was such a great and inspiring leader for UK during WW2 but he was such a terrible person for india most notably documented in case of totally unnecessary man made famines in Bengal in india during WW2 among all the other atrocities committed by UK leaders!
The argument that somebody may have been great for their people but sucked for the rest of the world makes zero sense to me. If your judging great American presidents then it doesn’t matter what their worldly impact was if they were great for americas. Same for Charlemagne it doesn’t matter what his impact on the world was, how did he make life better for his people that’s what we’re judging here. Idk that whole opening is a non argument for me who gives a f$&k what other cultures/peoples thought of the leader or they were great for their people they were great plain and simple. “Just bc he was great for America doesnt mean he was great for other people” mmhmm ok but see this is a list on greatest American Presidents lol
Now if you wanna judge people based on their impact on all people or their worldly impact ok but in a list judging greatest presidents or greatest kings that line of thinking makes no sense
Dude don't call the Eastern Roman Empire Byzantine. Throughout their history they called themselves Romans and never Byzantines. Its lazy historians who wanted to differentiate them out of clarity that made up that term.
We use terms that weren't contemporary all the time. The Plantagenets never called themselves that, but we use the term anyway. Even saying "Charlemagne" is using a name that he never would have called himself. It isn't lazy, it's very, very common to use terms to describe people and places that weren't used at the time.