Those recommendations are extremely good ideas ! I use a separate light meter also because I use several different film cameras. One meter seems best. Thank you. RS. Canada
oh oh oh ....37 years after i startet measuring with any light meter including the selen cell type ones , it was you mr. o´nions, who explained it the right way. thank you so much. i finally got the difference between positive and negative film concerning meetering....now, that i am aware of this - i will try my best to make better positives. i wish you all the best and thank you again for " ...you have to get rid of the highlights..." stay healthy and please continue with these fabulous foto hiking tours.....greeting fron a typical german wandersman...andy
You are by far my favorite youtube channel on the matter of film photography, as a beginner it is a pleasure to learn from you experience and expertise. And I am always blown away by the quality both of your photographs and your videos. I don't often comment but I really wanted to thank you for your work.
My first "spotmeter" was an attachment that went on my Gossen Luna Pro that gave me a choice of a 15 or 30 degree spot. My next meter was a Sekonic L-488 digital spot meter and life got better. A very good video and I am glad that you covered the differences between metering for slide and for print film. For many years, my favorite color film was Kodachrome 25 and it was not forgiving.
Another brilliant tutorial, the best that I have come across for metering and the zone system. I went looking for a spot meter after seeing your video and discovered that I'd have to sell all my film cameras to buy one!
Richard took the words right out of my mind. Steve is top shelf among the photo guys. Both talented artist and able teacher. Thanks and greetings from Germany.
I have been on a massive binge watching your channel as I just discovered it. This has to be the best explanation of metering and the zone system I have seen on TH-cam. It answered all of the questions I had as I am about to jump into the film world for the first time soon. Your channel is amazing, and thank you for putting out helpful, insightful, and interesting content.
Steve, Great job. After following the late Richard White and others I was getting fairly competent with the zone system. I followed your strategy and nailed it. You made what I once thought complicated and confusing simply and straight forward. I follow your channel and have gained great knowledge from your work.. Thank you.
I still use a Pentax spot meter I bought in 1972. It works like a charm, except for the complete lack of memory and calculating devices found in more modern digital models . My own memory is 73 years old and a digital assist would be nice. Thanks Steve, you do good work. By the way, I think I learned almost everything I know about b&w film photography from Ansel Adams' The Negative. It is old but for me it has been a bible.
The master at work. Brilliant educational and instructive video put over clearly and slowly, even I understood. Thank you Steve. Love to have a longer video on this subject.
I absolutely love your videos. So enjoyable to watch and equally informative. It’s really helping me get back into film photography after a long hiatus.
This is such an incredibly educational video for a beginner such as myself. Your use of example photos and elaboration on the metering process in the moment was really illuminating (pun slightly intended). Thanks, Steve!
Excellent spotmeter discussion with examples; really enjoyed the color positive aspect because I do not us; still clinging to my Pentax Spotmeter V (analog) w/ Zone VI studio scale for the last 35 years... as always great job Steve!!
Love your channel Steve. Your videos are very informative and very well delivered. This particular video clear demonstrated the use and value of the spot meter for creating the correct exposure. Thanks
I have just bought myself a spotmeter a couple of days ago. This video has certainly improved my knowledge to use it even better now. looking forward to learn more about specific filmstocks from you!
Thank you for this video - it is the singular clearest explanation of how to meter for shadows and get what you want. I have been worried I have been under-exposing my images and, looking at this, I am! I look forward to getting out and tring to be a bit braver with shadows!
Glad you found it useful Chris. I always remember the quote from Ansel Adams that went was I believe ‘when I got a spot meter my typical exposures went up by one stop’.
To make things even 'easier' use Ralph Lambrechts exposure 'wheel'. Page 258-259 in his collaboration book with Chris Woodhouse "Way Beyond Monochrome". I have been using this for about 20 years (my book copy is c2003). I have not had a missed exposure since. What I really love from this post is the differences between negs and slides and metering as such. Steve, you are an inspiration. Brett Weston Q "Photography is 90% sheer, brutal drudgery. The other 10% is inspiration" ..
Awesome vid! I just recently got back into film, I grew up in photography in the 70s. I have a Nikon F4, Olympus OM-2SP, and a Minolta XD-11 ( was my first film camera in the 70s). I just won on eBay a Minolta Autocord. I need to get back to metering and your video has helped my bunches!
Your explanation has been so helpful. I agree more videos on these with the color film would be awesome too. Thank you for your content. It's very inspirational.
Hi Steve - excellent explanation as always. I've used my Pentax Spotmeter for years with B&W negatives of all formats from 35mm to 4x5". For slides (Provia) I always use 35mm in my F4S and am happy with the exposures I get from the TTL set to "partial spot".
Exposure spot on with spot meter. The neg for shade and pos for highlights approach is fine. My Sekonic 758 can be used to calibrate a film or a camera. This makes dynamic range explicitly visible in the user interface (an app is used as tool). Finding the darkest point in your image, then the brightest, places both measurements on the display and suggests the optimal exposure. Here the photographer decides what to do when subject dynamic range is larger than film/camera dynamic range: all highlights, all lowlights or a piece of both. So, we can simplify and focus our metering as explained, or work with dynamic ranges. We ought not call this light metering, though, as we meter the subject ... Personally, I still use (incident) light metering most. That is, now my new digital camera can meter for the highlights and I love this a lot, so the meter is using batteries for standby ... Or flash metering in the studio. Be aware that a discrete meter does not know your lens's T stop and you have to compensate differently for each lens, potentially. In pos film you may underexpose a bit and not notice you lost something. In neg film, you lose critical shadow details. With cameras metering through the lens (TTL) the T stop got forgotten, but with the discrete meter we need the awareness. And when you develop/process your own film, make this part of your meter/film calibration runs. By the way, with leaf shutters in exchangeable lenses, run a calibration of the shutters, say once a year (test shots of gray scales in controlled light). After all, you got here because you want perfect exposure and maximum utilization of dynamic range. When you digitally scan your work, you can benefit from image processing software that can make the shoulders of the film's density as function of log I*t curve suitable for use, which they weren't in the old days. And check out the effects of opening as 32-bits to high and low details.
As I predominantly shoot negative materials and err on the side of extra exposure I can largely ignore the variations of shutter and aperture that can indeed ruin a slide image. Processing is very important for B&W but I chose not to include it here as it's a whole set of videos in its own right!
I'm trying the zonal system when I go out to shoot portraits on Provia 100F later this month. I don't have a handheld light meter so I will use the spot meter on my Nikon Z6 (I'm shooting digital that day as well as slide film) in aperture priority with the ISO fixed at 100. I get the feeling the bright skin tones I'll need to place somewhere from zone 6-7 (I've learned that the exposure ceiling of Provia is around +2EV). I may bracket +1, +1.5 and +2EV and hopefully learn where this magic EV number is (although I expect this will change in different weather conditions - maybe zone 6 in overcast/flat conditions and closer to 7 in bright conditions). Wish me luck
Very useful info. Thanks! I will try to think in terms of zones. Now, some people I think have a different philosophy on the slide film part. Sometimes shadows can be nearly black and it's fine, but I often feel that blown highlights ruin the image more often than too dark shadows. Maybe this is from my frustration early on with getting images back from the lab that were washed out, or maybe I just like mysterious darks. There are always exceptions of course.
When I learned that my spot meter was giving me a reading that turned everything a medium grey. It made getting a good exposure really very simple. For example meter snow and the meter will give you a reading that will turn it medium grey . So open up a couple stops maybe more and get the white you know the snow actually is. Same with shadow areas except you will stop down from the reading to get the deep shadows captured the way they are. I also have a 18% grey card with me when i am shooting close subjects such as fern or flowers etc. Set the card near the subject take a spot reading off the card and this time you do use the reading as is for a perfect exposure.
Why would you leave the metered reading alone? If you were in close photographing a white flower wouldn’t leaving the actual reading as your exposure give you a gray flower?
@@NarcissismSurvivor Not when metering off the grey card. Put the Card in the same light as the flower and meter off it for the correct exposure. No adjustment needed.
Thanks for the comprehensive, yet brief run through your process for metering Steve. I have pulled my fathers old 35 mm film camera out of the closet and am thinking of giving it a go with either HP5 + or Kodak Tri-X 400 film.
This is superb information Steve, thank you. I'll probably watch this a couple of times and make notes to carry with me. I've not yet attempted to shoot slide film but it's on the list.
Back in those days, about 40 years ago, I shoot mostly slides with my OM-2 for private use. Mostly with Kodachrome 25 and Velvia 50. Can't remember once that I missed the metering. Now I have even better metering system, in my "new" OM-3Ti. But I'm agree that I need a good spotmeter for my MF and LF camera. Thank's for explaining. By the way, I had a very good color meter, what I sold for a good penny.
I also got pretty good at metering with my Nikon’s but the lack of a decent (or any) medium/large format inbuilt metering makes a separate one invaluable.
I use the same Sekonic 508 and really like it, but I must say: If the scene is not very constrasty, I use it in ambient light meter mode and usually have no bad results. If the scene is contrasty though, the spotmeter is the best method of metering. For small format I use an Olympus OM-4 quite often and when I use this camera, I do not take an external meter, since this funny little thing has an inbuilt spotmeter. Not the tightest 1° spot, but the split screen in the center is the measuring spot, so it is TTL and tight enough. The best reason to love the little thing. With slide - difficult. I love Provia 100 (Velvia is a bit too much color for my liking). But I only use it with my 6x6 SLR and quite often I use neutral grad filters. In gerneral I think I will stop shooting slide once the current stock in the freezer is gone and use Ektar 100 and Portra 160 exclusively in the future.
Spot metering is probably overkill for low contrast scenes shot with negative film, it’s hard to get the reading wrong! I’ve sometimes used the incident meter for colour slide and it works very well. I’ve never used the spot meter in my later film cameras, I prefer the matrix options.
Just had a little go in the garden with my meter. Not enough dark stuff round the house really, but even so it worked and is very useful........Now to find the dynamic range of my digital camera.
Appreciate this tutorial, Steve. Been out shooting with my 4x5 Rangefinder (it's a converted Polaroid 110) and used the two-stops faster method here with my FP4 and HP5. Works out pretty well so far. Will definitely come in handy when I shoot some Rollei RPX 25 with a camera on sticks. Cheers.
Hi Steve. Would you say a spot meter is useful if using a DSLR, I enjoy using manual settings, and thought it would be a worthy addition. To use on those tricky situations, where I feel my in camera metering just won't do. Any thoughts?
Nicely done Steve, thanks for sharing. Get it right 'in camera" is my motto, less to fix (if at all) later in post. Although I must admit there is a certain lazy joy in occasionally using digital where you can chimp like crazy to get the exposure right!
Very interesting and helpful Steve! I’m still getting my head around the Zone System, and have only recently started to use a Pentax V spotmeter. You’ve given me a better understanding, for which I’m grateful. Incidentally, I’ve also recently shot my first-ever roll of slide film (Kodak Ektachrome), using my recently-acquired Nikon FA, and only one of the 36 shots was poorly exposed. I really like the look of this film, and the FA’s matrix meter seems to be very effective.
Thanks Neil. I think the FA was the first camera to have matrix metering and it improved on Nikon's already effective centre weighted mode. I should try Ektachrome, I have a liking for neutral films and it might fit the bill.
I would add explanation of basic reason of using the system which is to fit the scene within dynamic range of the film (or sensor). People instinctively try to meter for the photo to get certain result "out of the box" (like a digital camera that may want to detect a face and set exposure for the face the highlights and shadows be damned) the point of the system is to make sure no important details are lost or if there is no way to prevent that, to be able to make a conscious decision about where you want to compromise, whether your highlights or shadows are more important (or wait until conditions are better). The exposure can be corrected once it is developed and scanned but if you loose details it is gone forever.
I certainly consider what I want from the image before deciding how to use the spot meter Leonard. I’m always surprised by how much more exposure I use when spotmetering for negative materials, I recall Ansel Adams remarking on this in one of his books too.
Recently bought the same model - couldn't afford the digital model. Also useful with an 18% gray card for incident light on the subject. The rotary scale is perfect for converting the EV value to a camera setting.
Thanks Nolan. Every meter will read (and behave) slightly different so it’s a matter of going out and experimenting. The whole business of judging things like ‘significant shadow detail’ is very subjective and one man’s zone 3 is another man’s zone 4. With negative materials I’d generally advise overexposure if you can’t be sure, this is unlikely to ever harm a shot unlike under exposure which will soon spoil an image.
Thank you Steve for this blog. Brings back memories of when I used to shoot film. Nowadays, I simply use ETTR to make sure highlights are retained and manipulate the image in post for the shadows. Digital sensors are so.much better in dynamic range that we have all forgotten about the need to carefully consider exposure settings.
Hi Steve, thanks for such an instructive and useful video on spotmetering so helpful especially concerning the latitude of different film stock (I learned a lot). I have a Minolta Spotmeter F and love it as I try to apply the zone system - as you say it enables metering from such small area of the scene that you cannot get close to. Quick question how do you factor in for filters do you just add the necessary number of stops to the shutter duration (I was wondering why you don't use the exposure compensation dial) thanks Tony
Good question Tony. I work out the exposure without the filter then add that in, effectively lengthening the shutter speed. I the. Apply any other factors such as reciprocity failure or bellows extension for large format.
I was really happy to find your site. I have a question about metering. When you get a fractional stop such as f 22.8 and you can't actually set that on your camera do you round up to the next stop or back down to f 22.
Good question Graham. If I’m shouting negative film I always allow any extra exposure by using the larger fstop. So if it reads 1/15@f/11.6 I’d go for f/11. With slide film I’d avoid the overexposure so probably go the other way but it does depend on where you choose to meter so it’s never going to be exact.
*Good video:* One exception I can think of is snow scenes, where the right exposure may be two or three stops above the average value over the whole view. Thus, you need to expose for the objects of interest, and disregard the snow itself, most of which will be grossly overexposed, and totally white. Nobody likes grey snow! :-) I hope we can see a video on this channel about how, when, and why to an incident light meter.
Great video as always! Learnt a lot. Would love to see a video about using slide film + spot metering + grad filters to control a scene with big dr. I've found it challenging to accurately place grads using the waist level finder on my medium format camera. Would be curious to learn from your process!
Very nice and clear explanation, just the way I was thought how light metering works. I only shoot digital but that doesn’t make any difference in the way you meter (only more dr than slide film) I have exactly the same Sekonic meter, works a charm.
I do at times John, particularly if I’m aiming for a darkroom print. With scanning and Lightroom I have so much more control that I typically use a standard development process for all films.
Ugh! It’s maddening. Just when I think that I’ve got it down it escapes me. Please let me ask a question… When you metered off of the tree shadow how did you know that the spot was was a zone 3? Just practice? Thank you!
That’s the main problem, what is a zone III? It’s largely subjective but I’ve settled on picking a fairly deep shadow where I still want to see plenty of detail and base my exposure on that. Others may call that a Zone II or Zone IV. When in doubt I always add at least one more stop of exposure if I’m shooting with a negative film.
Thanks for this very helpful lecture. While saving for an adequate spot meter, I’m going to try utilizing my z6 which has a 1 degree spot metering feature. Not sure how precise this may be but with reading the results instantaneously on the digital camera you may be able to finagle a decent reading. ONE question if I may... what’s the purpose of using slide film if the dynamic range is so limited? Is it the color rendition? Your image with the slide film is just lovely. Thanks again!
Slide film is more vibrant and can expand the range of tones in a low contrast scene. If there are less than 5 stops of range then slide film will produce a very pleasing result, negative material on the other hand can look quite muddy.
I keep rewatching the bit at 6:18 but I don't understand it... You said that you meter the shadow areas that you wish to get in the final image to appear as they are "zone 3". Now, when you meter something, the exposure meter tells you what exposure time you need to have that part of the image appear as "zone 5". Hence, you underexpose 2 stops on that reading to get them to "zone 3". Isn't that how it is? If so, why are you showing the arrow going from zone 3 to zone 5? Isn't it viceversa? I'm sorry if what I'm saying is confusing
@@SteveONions Thank you :) I think it's quite challenging to show it visually as you did. Perhaps a better way would be to have another zone system scale on top which is offset so that the "V" is on top of the "III" when you meter. When you say "I underexpose by 2 stops", that could be shown as a movement of the upper scale to the right, so that the two scales overlap. I found it a little confusing with the arrows because you show the arrow moving from zone III to zone V, when saying that you underexpose, which made me think like "a zone III will appear as a zone V if you underexpose", which is the opposite of what actually happens! Sorry for splitting hairs, the entire video was amazing
Steve thanks for your videos! do you have any exercises/tips to recognize the metered area? like the bw tree picture you metered in the middle, problay I would have metered in another area...
Hi Gigi. Everyone has their own 'metering area' but it doesn't matter too much as long as you are consistent. One persons idea of a significant shadow area, Zone III is different from another but when shooting negative materials I always err on the side of overexposure. I pick and area I want to see plenty of shadow detail in and work from there, often placing this on Zone II to give it even more exposure and richness. If shooting slides I always ensure the brightest area is not overexposed, often this will require the use of neutral density graduated filters. Hope that helps!
Great video Steve. Could you comment on when and whether you rate your negative films at (typically) lower E.I.'s. As you know, part of the Zone system involves testing for film speed based on your personal equipment and developing methods. I always ended up with half box speed after testing several films. By the way, Bruce Barnbaum recommends placing shadows on ZIV for better separation of values. Have you given that a go? 📷
I tend to agree Gregory, half box speed is about right especially for the larger formats where overexposure never gives me a problem. It also depends on lighting of course and in flat conditions I prefer box speed or higher to expand the range somewhat. The post production also makes a difference, I like a thin negative for scanning but a thicker one for the darkroom.
Nobody seems to mention the memory function of these meters which I find really helpful in seeing the full range of values at once and placing my exposure to cover the parts of the range that are most important to me. I like to set exposure latitude of my film using the little triangular indicators, meter shadow and highlight and a midtone, memorizing each, then shift the exposure to fit within the exposure latitude of the film. It only takes a minute to do this and means I don't have to be doing a lot of math in my head.
I’ve tried the memory function a few times Curtis but prefer to juggle the numbers in my head. It’s not perfect but I’m so used to it now and usually get it right (apart from last week - video soon!).
@@SteveONions Makes sense when you've been doing it a long time. I'm newer to this than you. Interestingly, I have just been experimenting with different kinds of metering. I compared a Sekonic L 208 (a wide angle averaging meter) with spot meter, camera meter and a phone app. Of course they yield similar results but I did find that the wide angle meters like the phone and L 208 capture more sky and recommend stopping down about a stop compared to the camera and spot meter.
Question for you sir. I have the same meter and love it. I'm curious, do you ever use it in incident mode? I've found I can get pretty accurate readings, providing, of course, I am in the same light as my subject. Such as flowers in the shade for example.
Useful video Steve. With slide film do you find you have to shoot the scene in certain conditions? I've found due to the limited dynamic range I shoot mostly in the golden hour and if required a grad filter. The other thing is, do you rate your colour negative film 1 or 2 stops slower? There is a group that goes with that trend ..... to get those pastel colours.
Hi Raymond. I am careful when using slide film that the brightness range is quite low or I will end up with dense shadows or blown highlights. With negative film I always err on the side of overexposure if there is any doubt when metering but I generally favour using box speed as I spot meter which almost always leads to greater exposure than an in-camera meter. The overexposed pastel look works very well in certain situations especially when it is extremely bright but for many of the situations I work in it is not so good and I prefer to use the manufacturers speed.
what an informative video. on both spot metering and the zone system. thank you! i have a sekonic 308 meter, which is not a spot meter. Can you recommend a "budget friendly" spot meter? thank you!
A better example would be metering for a sky AND land with slide film. That's the trickiest of them all. For anyone wondering, meter shadow, place to zone 3, meter around, if everything is within 4 stops, you're good, move onto metering for sky, see how high the meter is reading for the sky against the ground, and then against the shadow in zone 3. If it's 2-4 stops OVER the ground + however many stops that ground is compared to shadow, (ground is 3 stops brighter than shadow area, and sky is 3 stops over THAT, it's a total of 6 stops difference), grab your GND filters, add a 6 stop filter and take your exposure. if i have provia or e100, I'll get a 5 stop GND so the sky is one stop lighter than the ground, but still within the 5-7 stop dynamic range of those two films.
![จากรุ่นใหญ่สุดรวยในเกม FIVEM สู่การติดคุกแก๊งแตกในชีวิตจริง [สรุปแก๊งOREO]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Vjj8EX4qpiU/mqdefault.jpg)
most methodic person I ever seen, at least in the photographic comunity, love this guy
🙂
Thank you this is the first time on 45 years of photography I had the zone system explained in a way I understand. This will help a lot.
Glad you liked it Richard.
Those recommendations are extremely good ideas ! I use a separate light meter also because I use several different film cameras. One meter seems best. Thank you. RS. Canada
Thanks Richard. Using a single light meter does ensure consistency and promotes good technique.
oh oh oh ....37 years after i startet measuring with any light meter including the selen cell type ones , it was you mr. o´nions, who explained it the right way. thank you so much. i finally got the difference between positive and negative film concerning meetering....now, that i am aware of this - i will try my best to make better positives. i wish you all the best and thank you again for " ...you have to get rid of the highlights..." stay healthy and please continue with these fabulous foto hiking tours.....greeting fron a typical german wandersman...andy
Thanks Andreas.
This is fantastically helpful. Thank you.
Glad it was helpful!
You are by far my favorite youtube channel on the matter of film photography, as a beginner it is a pleasure to learn from you experience and expertise. And I am always blown away by the quality both of your photographs and your videos. I don't often comment but I really wanted to thank you for your work.
Thanks Gauthier, that’s very kind of you to say.
This is such a helpful video. I love every video Mr. O'nions puts out. his work has been extremely helpful as I learn film photography.
Thank you Zakary.
My first "spotmeter" was an attachment that went on my Gossen Luna Pro that gave me a choice of a 15 or 30 degree spot. My next meter was a Sekonic L-488 digital spot meter and life got better. A very good video and I am glad that you covered the differences between metering for slide and for print film. For many years, my favorite color film was Kodachrome 25 and it was not forgiving.
Thank you.
Excellent video. Great pacing, great examples and great length
Thank you 😊
Thanks Steve for making the video no one else would. It answered quite a few questions.
I’m glad you liked it Joseph.
Another brilliant tutorial, the best that I have come across for metering and the zone system. I went looking for a spot meter after seeing your video and discovered that I'd have to sell all my film cameras to buy one!
Thanks Sameer, spotmeters have never been cheap sadly.
Richard took the words right out of my mind. Steve is top shelf among the photo guys. Both talented artist and able teacher. Thanks and greetings from Germany.
Thank you Jan, that’s very kind 😊
Steve nice work. God to see you are bringing back that film art style we left a few years back. Keep save !
Thanks Stafford.
Best explanation of using the Zone system and its relationship to the camera setting.
I have been on a massive binge watching your channel as I just discovered it. This has to be the best explanation of metering and the zone system I have seen on TH-cam. It answered all of the questions I had as I am about to jump into the film world for the first time soon. Your channel is amazing, and thank you for putting out helpful, insightful, and interesting content.
Thanks John, really glad you found the video useful.
Steve,
Great job. After following the late Richard White and others I was getting fairly competent with the zone system. I followed your strategy and nailed it. You made what I once thought complicated and confusing simply and straight forward. I follow your channel and have gained great knowledge from your work.. Thank you.
Glad you found it useful Michael, it’s a lot easier to do than describe 🙂
Thanks Steve! Even though I regularly use a spotmeter and shoot slide, I still feel like I learned something just by hearing how you do it. Very nice!
Thanks Arild.
Thanks for sharing that with us!
You’re welcome 😊
I still use a Pentax spot meter I bought in 1972. It works like a charm, except for the complete lack of memory and calculating devices found in more modern digital models . My own memory is 73 years old and a digital assist would be nice. Thanks Steve, you do good work. By the way, I think I learned almost everything I know about b&w film photography from Ansel Adams' The Negative. It is old but for me it has been a bible.
Thanks Michael, you’ve have more than a fair return on your investment I think 👍
If you have a smartphone, there are pretty good exposure metering apps available.
@@valueforvalue76 Alas I don't use a smartphone, I'm a true Luddite I guess. Thank you for you for suggestion though.
@@michaelbailey1578 Nothing wrong with that, I'm sure we'd all get more accomplished if we did not carry smartphones.
Thanks, great video. Now everything became clear to me.
Glad it helped!
Thank you for this video. I found it quite helpful.
Glad to be of help Alan.
The master at work. Brilliant educational and instructive video put over clearly and slowly, even I understood. Thank you Steve. Love to have a longer video on this subject.
Glad it was helpful!
Nicely done, as usual. Thanks for delivering on the promise! Can't wait for the in-depth version.
An excellent description of a complex subject, brief and concise. Well done Steve and keep safe.
Cheers Phillip.
Light meters are wonderful. I use them as I use various cameras
Excellent Video
I absolutely love your videos. So enjoyable to watch and equally informative. It’s really helping me get back into film photography after a long hiatus.
Great to hear that Nicholas 🙂
This is such an incredibly educational video for a beginner such as myself. Your use of example photos and elaboration on the metering process in the moment was really illuminating (pun slightly intended). Thanks, Steve!
Glad you liked it 🙂
Excellent video, Steve. Love the technical information 🙏🏽
You’re welcome 😊
Excellent spotmeter discussion with examples; really enjoyed the color positive aspect because I do not us; still clinging to my Pentax Spotmeter V (analog) w/ Zone VI studio scale for the last 35 years... as always great job Steve!!
Thanks Randy, those original Pentax models have given so much service over the years.
Love your channel Steve. Your videos are very informative and very well delivered. This particular video clear demonstrated the use and value of the spot meter for creating the correct exposure. Thanks
I’m glad you found it useful Patricia.
I have just bought myself a spotmeter a couple of days ago.
This video has certainly improved my knowledge to use it even better now.
looking forward to learn more about specific filmstocks from you!
Good timing Faber, you will soon get used to using the meter an wonder how you managed without it.
Thank you for this video - it is the singular clearest explanation of how to meter for shadows and get what you want. I have been worried I have been under-exposing my images and, looking at this, I am! I look forward to getting out and tring to be a bit braver with shadows!
Glad you found it useful Chris. I always remember the quote from Ansel Adams that went was I believe ‘when I got a spot meter my typical exposures went up by one stop’.
To make things even 'easier' use Ralph Lambrechts exposure 'wheel'. Page 258-259 in his collaboration book with Chris Woodhouse "Way Beyond Monochrome". I have been using this for about 20 years (my book copy is c2003). I have not had a missed exposure since. What I really love from this post is the differences between negs and slides and metering as such. Steve, you are an inspiration.
Brett Weston Q "Photography is 90% sheer, brutal drudgery. The other 10% is inspiration" ..
Awesome vid! I just recently got back into film, I grew up in photography in the 70s. I have a Nikon F4, Olympus OM-2SP, and a Minolta XD-11 ( was my first film camera in the 70s). I just won on eBay a Minolta Autocord. I need to get back to metering and your video has helped my bunches!
Sounds great!
Wow 😲😲 Four (4) cameras, how many rolls of film do you have? Sorry, but I couldn't help it😉😉.
Thank you for yet again another video on the finer details of film photography.
You’re welcome George.
Steve, you go into a lot of detail; but it is very helpful for anyone who has a desire to know what is happening. Thank you!
Thanks Michael 🙂
Your explanation has been so helpful. I agree more videos on these with the color film would be awesome too. Thank you for your content. It's very inspirational.
Thank you! Will do!
Hi Steve - excellent explanation as always. I've used my Pentax Spotmeter for years with B&W negatives of all formats from 35mm to 4x5". For slides (Provia) I always use 35mm in my F4S and am happy with the exposures I get from the TTL set to "partial spot".
Thanks Ray. I’ve also had very good slides from my Nikon’s using their inbuilt meters. The F80 is nearly always spot on.
Excellent explanation on spot metering! Super clear and concise.
Thanks Dave.
Excellent! So clear and concise.
Cheers Bob.
Brilliant, really super helpful and I have watched and read so much on spot metering. Thank you!
Glad you liked it Martin.
Excellent post! Thanks, Steve. Some of this information needs to be known more widely to avoid the disappointments that may go with film photography.
Thanks Walter.
Exposure spot on with spot meter. The neg for shade and pos for highlights approach is fine. My Sekonic 758 can be used to calibrate a film or a camera. This makes dynamic range explicitly visible in the user interface (an app is used as tool).
Finding the darkest point in your image, then the brightest, places both measurements on the display and suggests the optimal exposure. Here the photographer decides what to do when subject dynamic range is larger than film/camera dynamic range: all highlights, all lowlights or a piece of both.
So, we can simplify and focus our metering as explained, or work with dynamic ranges.
We ought not call this light metering, though, as we meter the subject ...
Personally, I still use (incident) light metering most. That is, now my new digital camera can meter for the highlights and I love this a lot, so the meter is using batteries for standby ... Or flash metering in the studio.
Be aware that a discrete meter does not know your lens's T stop and you have to compensate differently for each lens, potentially. In pos film you may underexpose a bit and not notice you lost something. In neg film, you lose critical shadow details. With cameras metering through the lens (TTL) the T stop got forgotten, but with the discrete meter we need the awareness.
And when you develop/process your own film, make this part of your meter/film calibration runs. By the way, with leaf shutters in exchangeable lenses, run a calibration of the shutters, say once a year (test shots of gray scales in controlled light). After all, you got here because you want perfect exposure and maximum utilization of dynamic range.
When you digitally scan your work, you can benefit from image processing software that can make the shoulders of the film's density as function of log I*t curve suitable for use, which they weren't in the old days. And check out the effects of opening as 32-bits to high and low details.
As I predominantly shoot negative materials and err on the side of extra exposure I can largely ignore the variations of shutter and aperture that can indeed ruin a slide image. Processing is very important for B&W but I chose not to include it here as it's a whole set of videos in its own right!
I'm trying the zonal system when I go out to shoot portraits on Provia 100F later this month. I don't have a handheld light meter so I will use the spot meter on my Nikon Z6 (I'm shooting digital that day as well as slide film) in aperture priority with the ISO fixed at 100. I get the feeling the bright skin tones I'll need to place somewhere from zone 6-7 (I've learned that the exposure ceiling of Provia is around +2EV). I may bracket +1, +1.5 and +2EV and hopefully learn where this magic EV number is (although I expect this will change in different weather conditions - maybe zone 6 in overcast/flat conditions and closer to 7 in bright conditions). Wish me luck
Hope it goes well Dave, Provia is more forgiving than a lot of other slide films.
I've just bought exactly the same meter for use with my Mamiya C330. Thanks for the helpful tutorial!
Glad it was useful Rupert.
Very useful info. Thanks! I will try to think in terms of zones. Now, some people I think have a different philosophy on the slide film part. Sometimes shadows can be nearly black and it's fine, but I often feel that blown highlights ruin the image more often than too dark shadows. Maybe this is from my frustration early on with getting images back from the lab that were washed out, or maybe I just like mysterious darks. There are always exceptions of course.
I’m the same. I can live with a solid shadow area but and substantial area of pure white kills an image for me.
When I learned that my spot meter was giving me a reading that turned everything a medium grey. It made getting a good exposure really very simple. For example meter snow and the meter will give you a reading that will turn it medium grey . So open up a couple stops maybe more and get the white you know the snow actually is. Same with shadow areas except you will stop down from the reading to get the deep shadows captured the way they are. I also have a 18% grey card with me when i am shooting close subjects such as fern or flowers etc. Set the card near the subject take a spot reading off the card and this time you do use the reading as is for a perfect exposure.
I should also carry an 18% grey card Terry as sometimes it would simplify the process.
Why would you leave the metered reading alone? If you were in close photographing a white flower wouldn’t leaving the actual reading as your exposure give you a gray flower?
@@NarcissismSurvivor Not when metering off the grey card. Put the Card in the same light as the flower and meter off it for the correct exposure. No adjustment needed.
@@NarcissismSurvivor You can meter the part of the flower that renders as mid grey
OK! You've convinced me! Now the challenge -- an affordable one!!!!! :-) Thanks Steve!
Good luck !!
Thanks for the comprehensive, yet brief run through your process for metering Steve. I have pulled my fathers old 35 mm film camera out of the closet and am thinking of giving it a go with either HP5 + or Kodak Tri-X 400 film.
Thanks Larry and I hope you manage to get out with the camera soon.
Thank you! This was extremely educational for me and I have been shooting for some time now. Professionally explained! :D
Thanks Manca.
Very solid and good elaboration, appreciate it Steve, keep on with the good effort of your videos
Thanks Patrick 👍
Excellent presentation and explanation Steve. Well done!!
Thanks Christos.
Great explanation! took me a long time to find a comprehensive one here
Glad you liked it Julián.
This is great Steve, thanks. I am always questioning my spot metering techniques...this really helps.
Glad you liked it Bill.
This is superb information Steve, thank you. I'll probably watch this a couple of times and make notes to carry with me. I've not yet attempted to shoot slide film but it's on the list.
Glad it was useful Glenn.
Another great video!
Am gonna have to re-watch this a few times. Never found it easy. Knowing the 9 stop gradient seems to be key. I think!
It took me some time too, easier to do than explain 🙂
Back in those days, about 40 years ago, I shoot mostly slides with my OM-2 for private use. Mostly with Kodachrome 25 and Velvia 50. Can't remember once that I missed the metering. Now I have even better metering system, in my "new" OM-3Ti. But I'm agree that I need a good spotmeter for my MF and LF camera. Thank's for explaining. By the way, I had a very good color meter, what I sold for a good penny.
I also got pretty good at metering with my Nikon’s but the lack of a decent (or any) medium/large format inbuilt metering makes a separate one invaluable.
In addition to my digital Sekonic color meter, I still have my old Gossen Sixticolor color meter. 😊
I use the same Sekonic 508 and really like it, but I must say: If the scene is not very constrasty, I use it in ambient light meter mode and usually have no bad results.
If the scene is contrasty though, the spotmeter is the best method of metering. For small format I use an Olympus OM-4 quite often and when I use this camera, I do not take an external meter, since this funny little thing has an inbuilt spotmeter. Not the tightest 1° spot, but the split screen in the center is the measuring spot, so it is TTL and tight enough. The best reason to love the little thing.
With slide - difficult. I love Provia 100 (Velvia is a bit too much color for my liking). But I only use it with my 6x6 SLR and quite often I use neutral grad filters. In gerneral I think I will stop shooting slide once the current stock in the freezer is gone and use Ektar 100 and Portra 160 exclusively in the future.
Spot metering is probably overkill for low contrast scenes shot with negative film, it’s hard to get the reading wrong! I’ve sometimes used the incident meter for colour slide and it works very well.
I’ve never used the spot meter in my later film cameras, I prefer the matrix options.
Just had a little go in the garden with my meter. Not enough dark stuff round the house really, but even so it worked and is very useful........Now to find the dynamic range of my digital camera.
You'll probably have a lot of lot of range with a modern camera John, you can treat the shadows with impunity and still get plenty of detail in there.
Very well explained!!
Great video, well done explanation,many thanks!
Thanks Nat.
@@SteveONions have a great Sunday,stay safe!
Appreciate this tutorial, Steve. Been out shooting with my 4x5 Rangefinder (it's a converted Polaroid 110) and used the two-stops faster method here with my FP4 and HP5. Works out pretty well so far. Will definitely come in handy when I shoot some Rollei RPX 25 with a camera on sticks. Cheers.
Thanks Bill, glad your exposures are coming out just fine 👍
Hi Steve. Would you say a spot meter is useful if using a DSLR, I enjoy using manual settings, and thought it would be a worthy addition. To use on those tricky situations, where I feel my in camera metering just won't do. Any thoughts?
Digital cameras can work very well Richard but I suppose I’ve got used to spot metering and find it all part of the film shooting process now.
Nicely done Steve, thanks for sharing. Get it right 'in camera" is my motto, less to fix (if at all) later in post. Although I must admit there is a certain lazy joy in occasionally using digital where you can chimp like crazy to get the exposure right!
Thanks Marc 🙂
Thanks for sharing your knowledge and experience with us once again. Really high quality content.
Looking forward for the follow-up video!
Thanks Abel.
Very interesting and helpful Steve! I’m still getting my head around the Zone System, and have only recently started to use a Pentax V spotmeter. You’ve given me a better understanding, for which I’m grateful. Incidentally, I’ve also recently shot my first-ever roll of slide film (Kodak Ektachrome), using my recently-acquired Nikon FA, and only one of the 36 shots was poorly exposed. I really like the look of this film, and the FA’s matrix meter seems to be very effective.
Thanks Neil. I think the FA was the first camera to have matrix metering and it improved on Nikon's already effective centre weighted mode. I should try Ektachrome, I have a liking for neutral films and it might fit the bill.
Steve O'Nions It’s also 3/4 the price of Velvia. If you want to see some of the test shots I took, my Instagram ID is shortstroke596.
Nice one Steve, Just got my minolta spotmeter F still works after many years.
Another fine piece of equipment John 👍
I would add explanation of basic reason of using the system which is to fit the scene within dynamic range of the film (or sensor). People instinctively try to meter for the photo to get certain result "out of the box" (like a digital camera that may want to detect a face and set exposure for the face the highlights and shadows be damned) the point of the system is to make sure no important details are lost or if there is no way to prevent that, to be able to make a conscious decision about where you want to compromise, whether your highlights or shadows are more important (or wait until conditions are better). The exposure can be corrected once it is developed and scanned but if you loose details it is gone forever.
I certainly consider what I want from the image before deciding how to use the spot meter Leonard. I’m always surprised by how much more exposure I use when spotmetering for negative materials, I recall Ansel Adams remarking on this in one of his books too.
Thank you so much for taking the time to explain
You’re welcome Claudio.
My Pentax Spotmeter V has a genial scale that works perfectly with two-spot metering. Never missed a slide.
Recently bought the same model - couldn't afford the digital model. Also useful with an 18% gray card for incident light on the subject. The rotary scale is perfect for converting the EV value to a camera setting.
Brilliant video which really helped me understand zone metering. Cheers!
Glad it helped Jacob.
Just found this timeless video, thanks Steve. I have a L-508 coming to me, would you recommend calibrating it in advance with any method? Thx. Nolan
Thanks Nolan. Every meter will read (and behave) slightly different so it’s a matter of going out and experimenting. The whole business of judging things like ‘significant shadow detail’ is very subjective and one man’s zone 3 is another man’s zone 4. With negative materials I’d generally advise overexposure if you can’t be sure, this is unlikely to ever harm a shot unlike under exposure which will soon spoil an image.
Thank you Steve for this blog. Brings back memories of when I used to shoot film. Nowadays, I simply use ETTR to make sure highlights are retained and manipulate the image in post for the shadows. Digital sensors are so.much better in dynamic range that we have all forgotten about the need to carefully consider exposure settings.
I also use ETTR with digital cameras and have no problem with shadow detail, works very well indeed.
You haven't tried Portra 400 then!
Hi Steve, thanks for such an instructive and useful video on spotmetering so helpful especially concerning the latitude of different film stock (I learned a lot). I have a Minolta Spotmeter F and love it as I try to apply the zone system - as you say it enables metering from such small area of the scene that you cannot get close to. Quick question how do you factor in for filters do you just add the necessary number of stops to the shutter duration (I was wondering why you don't use the exposure compensation dial) thanks Tony
Good question Tony. I work out the exposure without the filter then add that in, effectively lengthening the shutter speed. I the. Apply any other factors such as reciprocity failure or bellows extension for large format.
Fantastic explanation. Thank you so much
I was really happy to find your site. I have a question about metering. When you get a fractional stop such as f 22.8 and you can't actually set that on your camera do you round up to the next stop or back down to f 22.
Good question Graham. If I’m shouting negative film I always allow any extra exposure by using the larger fstop. So if it reads 1/15@f/11.6 I’d go for f/11. With slide film I’d avoid the overexposure so probably go the other way but it does depend on where you choose to meter so it’s never going to be exact.
Great video look forward to the in depth video on a particular film stock. Thanks
*Good video:* One exception I can think of is snow scenes, where the right exposure may be two or three stops above the average value over the whole view. Thus, you need to expose for the objects of interest, and disregard the snow itself, most of which will be grossly overexposed, and totally white. Nobody likes grey snow! :-)
I hope we can see a video on this channel about how, when, and why to an incident light meter.
Good point about the snow 👍. I’ll do an incident video one day. 🙂
Great video as always! Learnt a lot. Would love to see a video about using slide film + spot metering + grad filters to control a scene with big dr. I've found it challenging to accurately place grads using the waist level finder on my medium format camera. Would be curious to learn from your process!
Great suggestion for a future video David.
A very interesting and informative presentation!
Thanks Andrew.
Very nice and clear explanation, just the way I was thought how light metering works. I only shoot digital but that doesn’t make any difference in the way you meter (only more dr than slide film) I have exactly the same Sekonic meter, works a charm.
Steve, do you ever alter your B&W negative film development to control placement of the brighter areas?
I do at times John, particularly if I’m aiming for a darkroom print. With scanning and Lightroom I have so much more control that I typically use a standard development process for all films.
@@SteveONions Thank you. I greatly appreciate your thoughtful videos.
Hey Steve, great as always! Just wished to have a little bit of information on the using the dome on the Sekonic for measuring.
I’ll do an incident metering video one day Martin.
Ugh! It’s maddening. Just when I think that I’ve got it down it escapes me. Please let me ask a question… When you metered off of the tree shadow how did you know that the spot was was a zone 3? Just practice? Thank you!
That’s the main problem, what is a zone III? It’s largely subjective but I’ve settled on picking a fairly deep shadow where I still want to see plenty of detail and base my exposure on that. Others may call that a Zone II or Zone IV. When in doubt I always add at least one more stop of exposure if I’m shooting with a negative film.
Thanks a lot for this video. Very simple explanation that anyone can understand. Keep up with the good work you do.
Many thanks, excellent video and helpful!!!
Thank you 😊
Thanks for this very helpful lecture. While saving for an adequate spot meter, I’m going to try utilizing my z6 which has a 1 degree spot metering feature. Not sure how precise this may be but with reading the results instantaneously on the digital camera you may be able to finagle a decent reading. ONE question if I may... what’s the purpose of using slide film if the dynamic range is so limited? Is it the color rendition? Your image with the slide film is just lovely. Thanks again!
Slide film is more vibrant and can expand the range of tones in a low contrast scene. If there are less than 5 stops of range then slide film will produce a very pleasing result, negative material on the other hand can look quite muddy.
Steve O'Nions Thank You. for this very informative response!
I keep rewatching the bit at 6:18 but I don't understand it... You said that you meter the shadow areas that you wish to get in the final image to appear as they are "zone 3". Now, when you meter something, the exposure meter tells you what exposure time you need to have that part of the image appear as "zone 5". Hence, you underexpose 2 stops on that reading to get them to "zone 3". Isn't that how it is? If so, why are you showing the arrow going from zone 3 to zone 5? Isn't it viceversa? I'm sorry if what I'm saying is confusing
That is correct, as I hope the video shows. Measuring a zone III and underexposing by two stops will give sufficient shadow detail for the print 🙂
@@SteveONions Thank you :) I think it's quite challenging to show it visually as you did. Perhaps a better way would be to have another zone system scale on top which is offset so that the "V" is on top of the "III" when you meter. When you say "I underexpose by 2 stops", that could be shown as a movement of the upper scale to the right, so that the two scales overlap. I found it a little confusing with the arrows because you show the arrow moving from zone III to zone V, when saying that you underexpose, which made me think like "a zone III will appear as a zone V if you underexpose", which is the opposite of what actually happens! Sorry for splitting hairs, the entire video was amazing
Steve thanks for your videos! do you have any exercises/tips to recognize the metered area? like the bw tree picture you metered in the middle, problay I would have metered in another area...
Hi Gigi. Everyone has their own 'metering area' but it doesn't matter too much as long as you are consistent. One persons idea of a significant shadow area, Zone III is different from another but when shooting negative materials I always err on the side of overexposure. I pick and area I want to see plenty of shadow detail in and work from there, often placing this on Zone II to give it even more exposure and richness.
If shooting slides I always ensure the brightest area is not overexposed, often this will require the use of neutral density graduated filters.
Hope that helps!
Great video Steve. Could you comment on when and whether you rate your negative films at (typically) lower E.I.'s. As you know, part of the Zone system involves testing for film speed based on your personal equipment and developing methods. I always ended up with half box speed after testing several films. By the way, Bruce Barnbaum recommends placing shadows on ZIV for better separation of values. Have you given that a go? 📷
I tend to agree Gregory, half box speed is about right especially for the larger formats where overexposure never gives me a problem. It also depends on lighting of course and in flat conditions I prefer box speed or higher to expand the range somewhat. The post production also makes a difference, I like a thin negative for scanning but a thicker one for the darkroom.
@@SteveONions Thank you Steve!
Hi Steve, great video. You don’t talk about using incident light measurements. You don’t use that at all with spot measurements ? Thanks
I never use the Incident feature on my Sekonic Zenon although it is very good for slide metering.
Nobody seems to mention the memory function of these meters which I find really helpful in seeing the full range of values at once and placing my exposure to cover the parts of the range that are most important to me. I like to set exposure latitude of my film using the little triangular indicators, meter shadow and highlight and a midtone, memorizing each, then shift the exposure to fit within the exposure latitude of the film. It only takes a minute to do this and means I don't have to be doing a lot of math in my head.
I’ve tried the memory function a few times Curtis but prefer to juggle the numbers in my head. It’s not perfect but I’m so used to it now and usually get it right (apart from last week - video soon!).
@@SteveONions Makes sense when you've been doing it a long time. I'm newer to this than you. Interestingly, I have just been experimenting with different kinds of metering. I compared a Sekonic L 208 (a wide angle averaging meter) with spot meter, camera meter and a phone app. Of course they yield similar results but I did find that the wide angle meters like the phone and L 208 capture more sky and recommend stopping down about a stop compared to the camera and spot meter.
Ansel Adams said that once he got hold of a spotmeter his exposures increased by one stop - I’d agree with that.
Question for you sir. I have the same meter and love it. I'm curious, do you ever use it in incident mode? I've found I can get pretty accurate readings, providing, of course, I am in the same light as my subject. Such as flowers in the shade for example.
I do occasionally use incident mode Mark, mainly for colour slide work. It is extremely accurate if I can get right up to the subject.
Useful video Steve. With slide film do you find you have to shoot the scene in certain conditions? I've found due to the limited dynamic range I shoot mostly in the golden hour and if required a grad filter.
The other thing is, do you rate your colour negative film 1 or 2 stops slower? There is a group that goes with that trend ..... to get those pastel colours.
Hi Raymond. I am careful when using slide film that the brightness range is quite low or I will end up with dense shadows or blown highlights. With negative film I always err on the side of overexposure if there is any doubt when metering but I generally favour using box speed as I spot meter which almost always leads to greater exposure than an in-camera meter.
The overexposed pastel look works very well in certain situations especially when it is extremely bright but for many of the situations I work in it is not so good and I prefer to use the manufacturers speed.
Do you develop normally or do you pull your development when you use this system.?
It all depends, if it’s very bright I’ll pull development.
what an informative video. on both spot metering and the zone system. thank you! i have a sekonic 308 meter, which is not a spot meter. Can you recommend a "budget friendly" spot meter? thank you!
There’s not really a cheap option these days Nate, my Seconic L-508 is definitely one of the most affordable.
A better example would be metering for a sky AND land with slide film. That's the trickiest of them all. For anyone wondering, meter shadow, place to zone 3, meter around, if everything is within 4 stops, you're good, move onto metering for sky, see how high the meter is reading for the sky against the ground, and then against the shadow in zone 3. If it's 2-4 stops OVER the ground + however many stops that ground is compared to shadow, (ground is 3 stops brighter than shadow area, and sky is 3 stops over THAT, it's a total of 6 stops difference), grab your GND filters, add a 6 stop filter and take your exposure. if i have provia or e100, I'll get a 5 stop GND so the sky is one stop lighter than the ground, but still within the 5-7 stop dynamic range of those two films.
An excellent lesson, thanks for doing it.
Thank Alan.