Definitely a great way to go, thanks for the tip! I'll probably make this switch in the future once I run out of compact flash cards. SD cards are another potential alternative since they can be easily connected to another computer for imaging etc. Of course the benefit of modern solid state drives like mSATA is the built in wear leveling. Though in practice I've yet to corrupt a CF card in this way.
CF to IDE was great because CF was natively PIO/IDE/ATA... devices and SLC cards below 8GB was fast-ish, even if intended for sequential writes and used in random access(as an HDD replacement). That was literally more than a decade ago and no longer worth it, cached CF optimized for cameras is slow and wonky if used this way
Same! I even have the 64 MB RAM upgrade bringing it to 96 MB total. It does require a slight modification to the module and to the case of the Libretto 100 but you can't notice it once the keyboard is back in place. With the overclock it really becomes a seriously capable win9x machine!
It's not working yet but I recently posted another video with a deeper dive into the M3 with the help of a working M3 and a Parallel POST debugger. th-cam.com/video/X8_iby-lfo4/w-d-xo.html, I am doing some additional research into this machine and if you have any thoughts let me know!
Yeah I agree, it's related to the CPU somehow. I've seen similar mods to the other Librettos like the 50/70 and 100/110. This appears to be from the factory though especially with the flat flex ribbon cable. I would like to find pictures of other M3 motherboards to compare.
A PCMCIA card with a game/joystick port will be tough to find and drivers either not compatible with or non-existent for DOS. It's a bit more involved but one option would be rewiring the board from a PS/2 keyboard or Arduino with PS/2 library into a game pad case like the NES or SNES controllers. If you go with a microcontroller like the Arduino it would probably be easier to wire up the buttons instead of reverse engineering the matrix from a real keyboard. Then at least you could connect this to the dock or port replicator. The dock connector pinout is also documented for the 50/70 series, I'm pretty sure I saw a PS/2 port hacked into the body of a libretto somewhere. This could make a fun project!
Hoping I can get the M3 going, it's supposed to have a Pentium MMX at 133 MHz. I wonder if it can be overclocked as well like is possible in some of the others. Some C&C on these would be a blast!
Toshiba was on top of the laptop world back then. Toshiba was a huge player in Europe but I don't know if they ha much success in America. The plastic cases were pretty well made IMHO but I suppose the passage of time has made them extremely brittle. There are used electronics stores all over Tokyo and they stock a lot of old laptops that run DOS or early Windows; there still is a market for industrial, healthcare and financial firms with legacy equipment and systems. But I'm sure you know that.
How the mighty have fallen huh. My family's first real laptop was the honking huge Toshiba 335CDS that eventually became mine around grade 6. I remember lugging that beast to school before they had rules against that sort of thing. I even ended up buying a second hand 335CDS for the sole purpose of having a machine close in hardware to the Libretto but with built in floppy and CDROM and for a bit of nostalgia for the one I had growing up. Early Toshiba laptops definitely made their mark on me!
I gave up with Librettos. They basically crumble into dust.,.. Was so sad when my Libretto SS was basically falling apart just from opening and closing the lid!
Yeah I know what you mean. I have 3 100/110CTs that are in great shape electrically but the plastics are decimated. I've started to 3D print some replacement parts, mainly the hard drive covers and a few other pieces. What I would like to do is eventually work with the community to have new case/chassis parts designed and injection molded.
The prices on ebay are insane, for the same price I was able to get all 3 of these including shipping from Japan through Jauce. The downside of course is the different keyboard layout of the Japanese models, though I may be trying a keyboard swap in a future video.
Interesting video, thanks for sharing your experiences with the Librettos :) I've never seen the M3 before and wasn't aware of its existence - it looks to me like it might be based on similar hardware to the Portege 3000/3010/3020 series since the main gate array and the memory module both appear to match up. The port replicator pin-count doesn't match your M3 though :/ Nor does the dock connector on the Libretto 100CT (140 pins) appear to match with just 136 pins on the M3. The bodge board and flex cable all look factory to me - since it's re-using existing moulds we can guess it was a short production run, any design faults found on the first production run would likely just be resolved with a bodge fix since re-doing the PCBs wouldn't be viable. Hopefully you can coax some life out of all 3 of them in the end, it's a real shame the M3 isn't POSTing right now - something you could do with a dock/replicator is use a parallel port POST code reader to see where it's getting stuck in initialisation. I've used that successfully to troubleshoot a few 486 / Pentium class Toshibas.
Thanks for the info that is very helpful! I am definitely not giving up on the M3. Didn't even think about using the parallel port POST code reader. Hopefully I can find the compatible dock or port replicator, if not I wonder if the pinout is similar to the other Librettos and I could solder to it directly.
LOL I mean I understand the hardware preservation for like, posterity or museums and stuff, but what would you ever use these old computers for? I can't imagine why people go through the massive amount of work it takes to get these working again and then the real hard part is to get them to do anything useful, they aren't compatible with anything any more so the best you can do are old printers and swapping data between other like machines. Trying to find the drivers for a lot of this old stuff is a nightmare, and half the time it's not even available because the internet archive wasn't around lol. I mean, i can see the fun of tinkering I guess... but I got a buddy who tries to convince me that old computers are better for all kinds of stuff and I'm like, no, they are def not! i was there! I remember! My first PC was a commodore, then a performa 630cd, then a pentium, etc, I remember it all, it's not better for anything! Even emulators can run most of the stuff better.
I think points on both sides are valid, for me there has always been a passion for the real hardware with all their idiosyncrasies and pitfalls included. Generally I like to find a balance between the best of both worlds like using a flash cart on a vintage game console or SD/CF adapters in place of mechanical hard drives in machines like the Libretto. Some games and apps emulate perfectly well while others relied on cycle-accurate timings especially for sound. Another reason is bridge machines, for instance I have a powerbook G4 as a go-between for my modern macbook and the older macintosh. I'm glad for and appreciate both preservationists working on emulation and those restoring the hardware itself.
Getting a physical pc was my only option since I wanted to use windows itself, not play DOS games. There's no virtual machine or emulator that does that properly 😢 they only care about msdos or voodoo glide and win9x and older are always left in an unfinished trash state on them And the one that can technically run windows properly can only do so on a twenty thousand buck threadripper workstation because it's in its infancy A rock and a hard place :)
Realized this while editing the video and probably a good thing it didn't actually turn on. I put it back on while cleaning up and hopefully repairing this machine makes a good follow-up video.
Great video my friend. Love those little machines .I remember when they came out. Keep up the good work. 😁
I’ve actually stopped using CF to IDE and started using mSATA to IDE. It’s getting hard to find affordable CF cards that aren’t counterfeit.
Definitely a great way to go, thanks for the tip! I'll probably make this switch in the future once I run out of compact flash cards. SD cards are another potential alternative since they can be easily connected to another computer for imaging etc. Of course the benefit of modern solid state drives like mSATA is the built in wear leveling. Though in practice I've yet to corrupt a CF card in this way.
SD to IDE all the way 😂
SD-cards are easy to get in any size and are cheap 😎
Speed and reliability takes a hit through with SD!
@@retroftwEven still, I've gotten really nice performance boosts by going this route.
CF to IDE was great because CF was natively PIO/IDE/ATA... devices and SLC cards below 8GB was fast-ish, even if intended for sequential writes and used in random access(as an HDD replacement). That was literally more than a decade ago and no longer worth it, cached CF optimized for cameras is slow and wonky if used this way
I'm so happy that I've kept my Libretto 100CT (overclocked to 233MHz) that's still running well.
Same! I even have the 64 MB RAM upgrade bringing it to 96 MB total. It does require a slight modification to the module and to the case of the Libretto 100 but you can't notice it once the keyboard is back in place. With the overclock it really becomes a seriously capable win9x machine!
Did you get the M3 to work and if not, do you think that there is a way possibly??
It's not working yet but I recently posted another video with a deeper dive into the M3 with the help of a working M3 and a Parallel POST debugger. th-cam.com/video/X8_iby-lfo4/w-d-xo.html, I am doing some additional research into this machine and if you have any thoughts let me know!
My Performa 636 has most of its plastics missing due to plasticiser degradation. It has a modern LCD monitor for the same reason.
the bodg wires are how they adapted a standard motherb so they could use the upgraded cpu i think
Yeah I agree, it's related to the CPU somehow. I've seen similar mods to the other Librettos like the 50/70 and 100/110. This appears to be from the factory though especially with the flat flex ribbon cable. I would like to find pictures of other M3 motherboards to compare.
I have 2 x working Libretto 50 laptops and would love to get hold of a PC Card game port to use a joystick.
A PCMCIA card with a game/joystick port will be tough to find and drivers either not compatible with or non-existent for DOS. It's a bit more involved but one option would be rewiring the board from a PS/2 keyboard or Arduino with PS/2 library into a game pad case like the NES or SNES controllers. If you go with a microcontroller like the Arduino it would probably be easier to wire up the buttons instead of reverse engineering the matrix from a real keyboard. Then at least you could connect this to the dock or port replicator. The dock connector pinout is also documented for the 50/70 series, I'm pretty sure I saw a PS/2 port hacked into the body of a libretto somewhere. This could make a fun project!
New Sub; Dryden, Mich.
You got the Whole Fam, Those are sharp as hell.
Time for a Command & Conquer LAN Party
Hoping I can get the M3 going, it's supposed to have a Pentium MMX at 133 MHz. I wonder if it can be overclocked as well like is possible in some of the others. Some C&C on these would be a blast!
Toshiba was on top of the laptop world back then. Toshiba was a huge player in Europe but I don't know if they ha much success in America. The plastic cases were pretty well made IMHO but I suppose the passage of time has made them extremely brittle.
There are used electronics stores all over Tokyo and they stock a lot of old laptops that run DOS or early Windows; there still is a market for industrial, healthcare and financial firms with legacy equipment and systems. But I'm sure you know that.
How the mighty have fallen huh. My family's first real laptop was the honking huge Toshiba 335CDS that eventually became mine around grade 6. I remember lugging that beast to school before they had rules against that sort of thing. I even ended up buying a second hand 335CDS for the sole purpose of having a machine close in hardware to the Libretto but with built in floppy and CDROM and for a bit of nostalgia for the one I had growing up. Early Toshiba laptops definitely made their mark on me!
I gave up with Librettos. They basically crumble into dust.,.. Was so sad when my Libretto SS was basically falling apart just from opening and closing the lid!
Yeah I know what you mean. I have 3 100/110CTs that are in great shape electrically but the plastics are decimated. I've started to 3D print some replacement parts, mainly the hard drive covers and a few other pieces. What I would like to do is eventually work with the community to have new case/chassis parts designed and injection molded.
@@RobertsRetro that would be really cool. I have seen new old stock shell pieces come up on YAJ but Im sure theyd be just as easy to break.
Same with the old 300 series Thinkpads. i have a thinkpad 355CS, and the screen hinges have busted the back case open...
why are people using them, for programming? or just for fun and nostalgia ?
in curious too what people do with librettos
I really wish I'd bought some of these before the prices went crazy, same with the little Vaio P series.
The prices on ebay are insane, for the same price I was able to get all 3 of these including shipping from Japan through Jauce. The downside of course is the different keyboard layout of the Japanese models, though I may be trying a keyboard swap in a future video.
Interesting video, thanks for sharing your experiences with the Librettos :) I've never seen the M3 before and wasn't aware of its existence - it looks to me like it might be based on similar hardware to the Portege 3000/3010/3020 series since the main gate array and the memory module both appear to match up. The port replicator pin-count doesn't match your M3 though :/ Nor does the dock connector on the Libretto 100CT (140 pins) appear to match with just 136 pins on the M3.
The bodge board and flex cable all look factory to me - since it's re-using existing moulds we can guess it was a short production run, any design faults found on the first production run would likely just be resolved with a bodge fix since re-doing the PCBs wouldn't be viable.
Hopefully you can coax some life out of all 3 of them in the end, it's a real shame the M3 isn't POSTing right now - something you could do with a dock/replicator is use a parallel port POST code reader to see where it's getting stuck in initialisation. I've used that successfully to troubleshoot a few 486 / Pentium class Toshibas.
Thanks for the info that is very helpful! I am definitely not giving up on the M3. Didn't even think about using the parallel port POST code reader. Hopefully I can find the compatible dock or port replicator, if not I wonder if the pinout is similar to the other Librettos and I could solder to it directly.
bios Keyboard error No F1 to F1. ;)
LOL I mean I understand the hardware preservation for like, posterity or museums and stuff, but what would you ever use these old computers for? I can't imagine why people go through the massive amount of work it takes to get these working again and then the real hard part is to get them to do anything useful, they aren't compatible with anything any more so the best you can do are old printers and swapping data between other like machines. Trying to find the drivers for a lot of this old stuff is a nightmare, and half the time it's not even available because the internet archive wasn't around lol. I mean, i can see the fun of tinkering I guess... but I got a buddy who tries to convince me that old computers are better for all kinds of stuff and I'm like, no, they are def not! i was there! I remember! My first PC was a commodore, then a performa 630cd, then a pentium, etc, I remember it all, it's not better for anything! Even emulators can run most of the stuff better.
I think points on both sides are valid, for me there has always been a passion for the real hardware with all their idiosyncrasies and pitfalls included. Generally I like to find a balance between the best of both worlds like using a flash cart on a vintage game console or SD/CF adapters in place of mechanical hard drives in machines like the Libretto. Some games and apps emulate perfectly well while others relied on cycle-accurate timings especially for sound. Another reason is bridge machines, for instance I have a powerbook G4 as a go-between for my modern macbook and the older macintosh. I'm glad for and appreciate both preservationists working on emulation and those restoring the hardware itself.
Getting a physical pc was my only option since I wanted to use windows itself, not play DOS games. There's no virtual machine or emulator that does that properly 😢 they only care about msdos or voodoo glide and win9x and older are always left in an unfinished trash state on them
And the one that can technically run windows properly can only do so on a twenty thousand buck threadripper workstation because it's in its infancy
A rock and a hard place :)
you had me screaming at my computer about them screws lol
You and me both!
Also why didn’t you reattach the cpu heat sink plate when testing the last one?
Realized this while editing the video and probably a good thing it didn't actually turn on. I put it back on while cleaning up and hopefully repairing this machine makes a good follow-up video.
interesting, but not much use except retro
radxa 3 sleeper ....
this guy librettos