MITE WASH-Dawn Dish Soap VS Alcohol. What is going on?!?!?!
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 24 ต.ค. 2021
- Is Dawn Dish Soap as effective as 91% Isopropyl Alcohol for Mite Wash Counts?
The results have me scratching my head...Are the mite counts too low using Alcohol and does this mean the bees are doomed? Im a little worried...
Test Method:
Dawn Ultra Dish Soap 1-1/2 TBS per Gallon
Vs.
91% Isopropyl Rubbing Alcohol
Testing:
-Each Varroa Easy Check Mite Cup filled 1/3
-Shaken/swirled for 1 min
-Rested for 1 min,
-shaken/swirled for 1 more minute,
-rest for 1 minute
-followed by mite count.
-count the dead bees in the sample
-divide dead bee count by mite count to get %.
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It would be interesting to take the basket of bees washed in alcohol and wash them in dish soap to see if more mites drop after the initial wash and vice versa.
Yea...good idea.
That's exactly what I was thinking
That would of been excellent. Thats exactly what I thought AFTER i pitched the cup of bees from the alcohol sample! Stay tuned for the follow ups...
I had forgotten to tell you I was also doing sugar shakes to see the difference . Also there is another u tuber I watch . JC bees . After he does his Alcohol wash he washes them with plain water . That one adds mites in his wash so I tried that also . It stayed the same . “ zero “ . So I thought I was doing GREAT . Wrong . So I will continue to do my alcohol washes like I have been doing but I think I will give at least one OA treatment afterwards maybe not every month depending on what show up on my screen bottom board.🤷♂️🤷♂️
@@kathyhathaway8823 yes U also sub to JC and enjoy his content. I always try to inky treat if need be to make sure I'm not creating a resistance. I also rotate treatments between OA apivar and apiguard
I absolutely LOVE LOVE LOVE that you did this test. I did an almost exact same test comparing 70% Isopropyl alcohol w/ a powdered sugar shake. This test was done in Texas, in July. Same hive was tested at the same time (although I didn't get the bees from the same frame - maybe I should have?). The sugar shake showed 2 mites in a 1/2 cup of bees while the alcohol wash showed 13 in 1/2 cup.
After seeing your results and thinking about mine, I am beginning to wonder how much variability is in each test itself? In other words, if we did 4 alcohol washes on the same hive at the same time, how different would the results of each test be (and then the same question for both dish soap & sugar shake).
Fwiw, I am pretty certain that one of the reasons that the powdered sugar test was not effective was that it was Texas, in July. Meaning - it was very humid. Humidity causes the sugar to clump very quickly. I am quite certain that this affected the usefulness of that test.
Great video. Thanks!!
Another great video mr burns!!!! I did kind of chuckle when you said sometimes alcohol is hard to get. We use hillbilly hand sanitizer, works like a champ!!! 😂🤣😂
Thanks for watching buddy! There may or not be plenty of corn squeezins around for such if times get tough and all:)
@@NaturesImageFarmGregBurns it flows like spring water through these hills!! 🤦🏻♂️🤷🏻😎😂😂😂😂
@@TennesseeTim38451 y’all have the cleanest hands around!
Excellent field test I heard that Dawn soap is a better wash than alcohol and I think you have just convinced me. Great work.
The more I talk to folks bout this, the more it makes sense.
Interesting test Greg. I would do the same on another hive or two to see if similar results.
Great idea
Dawn is my hero for so many farm things, especially animals! Look into the little girl who saved the ducks with her idea of using dawn dish soap.
Very interesting information on the different mite treatments. Would like to see the test repeated a few times. Either way I hope your bees make it through winter.
Thanks for watching and stay tuned for the follow ups...Hope your bees are doing good too!
@horizontalbees Randy Oliver done testing and Dawn is better. They say you dont even have to agitate with Dawn.
The reason your mite load climbs, since the last time you did a roll. Is because more mites emerged from the Brood. At any given time, a mite roll sample is probably only giving you about a 20% look at how many mites are actually in the hive. The majority are in the capped brood. That is why there is such a low standard of 1% being the threshold at which u then start treating.
I have read another study that says the dawn ultra is more effective in getting the mites to drop. You did this one 11 mos. Ago. Hope all went well. Thanks for the posting.
Hey there! Thanks for the feedback. We have switched to using nothing but Dawn. It’s very effective and has proven itself to be our preferred solution for mite washes.
Randy O uses soap, so after looking at his studies and experiments that led me to believe it would work best. The releasing effect if the soap. I wish you would of washed the alcohol bees in a soap solution
I know...Stay tuned as we sort thru all this and follow up with more testing...Thanks for watching!
Demoing pulling down the sample container down a brood frame to roll bees into container for a 1/2 cup of nurse bees would have been a great addition for beginners to see. Did you find out thymol doesn’t control mites with brood present and works best for broodlees periods that year ?
Did you ever do a mite wash on the VSH hives?
Really won't matter, as long as you're consistent. Going back and forth will skew your baseline.
All you're really doing is getting some kind of baseline to compare this spring to last fall or whatever.
I haven't watched your video yet but I believe that universities studying different varroa mite treatments use an alcohol wash.
They sure do and its concerning that the results may significantly vary.
Man...I had hella mite count this year too... looking at the same % as you.
I haven't treated yet and I'm debating whether I want to treat or not....
Are OA treatments creating OA resistance in mites? I don't know...
Next season I'm going to do some checks throughout the season and track the individual hives. The hives that have low numbers all season, I'm going to steer clear of treatmen. Try and see if they bees can develop a resistance to thr mites on their own.
I know Don has said otherwise...but there clearly needs to be more work done on this matter.
High mite counts seem to be heavily trending in the Ohio Valley this fall. I'm not sure what to think about OA resistance...Ive has squeaky clean counts all year and haven't treated until recently. Thats the problem, if you're not on top of it, it gets out of had and quick. What I do know is that less mites=more productive and healthier bees. How we get there...thats what we are all working on...
The blue winter windscreen wash works great and is what I use.
Good to know!
That made me curious so today I did an alcohol wash with about 300 bees then a soap wash of about 300 using bees from the same tub I shook them into. The alcohol showed 4 mites and soap had 2. Then I went to another hive that had been missed for treatment (oops, its treated now) and I got 48 mites from alcohol and 37 from soap. I'm sticking with 90% alcohol, the soap foams too bad also. Thanks for the video.
Randy Oliver's repeated testing leaned towards the Dawn. If I recall correctly.
Have you tested your VSH hives?
Might have to make the motorized shaker like Randy Oliver and do a bunch side by side tests.
Was thinking it'd be handy to not have to shake the cups by hand!
If you think this is odd . I have done alcohol washes all season well about every 30-45 days . On two hives I have had zero’s all year ( great ) NO on the other hive I had zero all the time but one in that I had four mites . So I was thinking what a great year . WRONG . I was using 91 percent alcohol. In September I thought I would just try a OA TREATMENT. I like to have fell over I could not count all the mites it looked like thousands. This was on all three hives . I just done my fourth OA treatment an will check it tomorrow. On the third treatment they was way down. I may have to do one more . It may have been some kind of a mite bomb do not know but great full I found them before winter. . 🤷♂️
Wowzers! Sure hope you get those rascals knocked back and bees looking good for winter! Mite bombs seem very likely this year with many colonies starving out and getting robbed.
what is your final thoughts on the dish soap test? Are you staying with Dish soap or going back to alcohol ?
We’re getting ready to trial them both again and see if we get the same results…then we’ll form a final thought and more importantly a solid metric.
I hope that measuring spoon made it's way back to the kitchen. lol Great video, bud! The outcome was a little concerning. Another good thing about dish soap is we don't have to keep the mite shaker away from our smoker, as where with the alcohol it can be a fire hazard.
I am curious what the out come would be with Basic-H, it's an organic commercial soap. Thanks for the experiment.
Thanks for watching Jason! Let it be known far and wide that the spoon made it home and I didnt have to sing for my supper!
Dish soap seems to be a more realistic medium for mite washes but the results are definitely concerning. Basic H is a great soap, but not sure about the surfactant % compared to Dawn Ultra. Dawn seems more cost effective and more accessible.
I got lectured by Frederick Dunn on his channel for saying Dawn Ultra platium 4X is better than Dawn Ultra clear, he said what he uses is cheaper, but I said since wife is bed ridden and I have do dishes and the cooking, it's cut grease 4X better so it's still a great bargain.
One of the reasons 70% alcohol is used relates to flammability. It doesn’t burn.
Well done! So you think the Dishsoap is more accurate than Alcohol??
Thanks! I’m really leaning toward, the 2% threshold established for 90% rubbing alcohol is WAY too low. I will be shifting my IPM to reflect and will rely on Dawn as the baseline. I have a sneaking suspicion that far too many are waiting too long to take action based on the “science”. From what I see, science is 2-3 years behind reality.
I have been doing treating through out the summer with a propane black fogger with food grade mineral oil with winter green oil just did a test zero mites
Do you treat differently with 2.8% or 7.5%? If not why not just assume all hives mites and treat for mites and forgo mite washes.
Great question. I wouldn’t have been so heavy handed on the treatments on less of a mite load. The double blow saved many colonies but ultimately ran a bunch of smaller colonies out.
Greg, what I've heard is that the soap works better. That sure wasn't good news. As a researcher by trade we never trust one sample in research. It has to be repeatable. Were the bees with the most mites on the bottom of the box?? My gut says the soap wash is more accurate but I'd do at least three and then compare the results. Thanks for doing the test. This maybe part of the reason why people are getting low mite counts and then all of a sudden the hive is in a nosedive full of mites. I like the idea of OAV to knock down 20-30% right away. Good luck.
Thanks for the feedback Russell. Stay tuned for the follow ups as we try to get a head of this. Im very concerned that if this proves out, that we have been basing our treatment thresholds at levels that are actually far higher than thought.
@@NaturesImageFarmGregBurns I agree. With 80% in the brood it is hard to know what is going on.
I know what's going on my backyard hives, they're 30 days into a 75g OA & 75g veggie glycerin heated and soaked into swedish sponges cut in half, 2 havles on the top bars over the brood nest of my 4 double deeps, that's per hive dosage or 20 deep frames and 1/2 that in my 5 over 5 nuks, gonna see if I have any mites come the end goldenrod flow, mine hasn't bloomed yet. OAE is probably the best way to go and leave it on for 3 full brood cycles, with bees tracking all around in the hives. yeah yeah yeah, I know it's not an approved method, but I don't take any after spring flow honey, I leave it all for the bee's sake and my queens are all still laying fine, so we'll see if I have any colony losses, come February.
Have you tried using a different brand of rubbing alcohol than Equate? {I've learned that 'Up & Up brand' rubbing alcohol from Target store, will melt nail polish, where as the 'Equate brand' rubbing alcohol will not, so clearly not all brands of rubbing alcohol are the same, as many people naturally tend to assume. Who checks or regulates these things anyhow? Does anyone???}.
Great comment! Maybe all arent created equal. I assumed that 90% Isopropyl was the same but maybe its not?
Wow. I am shocked 😳 if rubbing alcohol is that low then that means we all have way higher mite counts. Wow wow making me nervous
That’s exactly what I’m leaning toward…we’ve been treating at a threshold that may be to late to come back from based on alcohol and 2%.
You should put the alcohol washed bees into the soap, and see if you get more... 🤔
Yep they are loaded . 🤷♂️🤷♂️🤷♂️
You got a whole lot of mits
If judging on the standard alcohol wash its not too awful bad BUT if the actual count is the soap wash...nearly doomed.
Or the alcohol kills mites to quick and they stay attached to the bees in the wash
Thats a good thought...that could be a real problem.
How's it going everybody
Hey Wade!
A really cheap bottle of vodka does the same
Did'nt you just kill your bees?
Yes, it kills the samples. Small sample to save the hive. Also, a Queen lays up to 2,000 eggs a day, so would be replaced in no time.
It is summer times bees ...
They don't live that long whatsoever ...
And truth stand he's preparing his hives to go thru winter so he needs to have somehow what to adjust treatments to get it properly done .
Think of it otherwise :
Beekeeper wishes will always be same having healthy clean productive breeds that do not need any kind a "survey" ...
We're not that keen on playing doctors with bees ...
Unfortunately, varroa is a pretty long bee affection sort of ...
There's some so-called non lethal varroa counts techniques developed with Co2 ...
Not that cheap, not that efficient yet ...
The remarkable point here stand we used to be told alcohol was "efficient" for autumn mites counts .
Reality seems to show different results while talking efficiency and results precision ....
And costs !
We almost all wishes we do not need to push be thru any kinds a treatments .
It's not something we take pleasure nor satisfaction of .
Thanks.
Dare, care, ride safe, clean, have fun ...
From France with.