Honestly the whole thing is crazy. I understand her wanting to make the distinction between road ultras and trail ultras, but I'm just not sure it's her place to police the words used on a public web page. It's so weird, but I don't really see anything 'wrong' with her trying to make the distinctions. If what she was editing wasn't made up or false, then it stays at just weird/odd behavior.
It is a bad look for ultrarunning. It seems like this is who she is. Her mom even went to facebook trying to see this was fake and made up... Their family has some issues
it's sad. I saw on a Tara Dower reddit article, the top comment was about this wiki crap. I get why Camille and her partner would do this: money from sponsors. it's not ego or mental health. she's just trying to write history that paints her as the GOAT because that plays well. But yeah, someone I work with asked me if I knew about this today, someone that I don't even think owns running shoes of any kind.
Courtney: always trying to point out how great her competitors are, how others inspire her, any opportunity to share the spotlight and glory. She doesn’t care….
No no in they did NOT only "correct" ultra-marathoner to trail !! The article shows exactly what text was removed and changed and it was a lot more than that!!
Brett, they didn't insert "trail", they pretty much deleted the entire bios of both Courtney and Kilian, including correctly sourced race results IIRC. If all they did was remove the unsourced claim about "widely regarded as one of the greatest ultra marathon runners" as un-encyclopedic and probably "original research" (prohibited by Wikipedia policy) they would have been a lot more justified. But they went beyond correction into essentially vandalism. In the case of Kilian, the edits were also reverted by moderators, and then they did it again, three full weeks later. The actual account bans were for edit-warring and sock-puppetry. At the end of the day, it is against wikipedia policy for subjects of articles to edit those articles, and that includes family members or management.
I don't think they did this to bully anyone, it just seems like insecurity and lashing out at the world for not getting recognition. Her losing sponsors is unfortunate and sad.
@@kimaboe Thanks for the clarification on that! I didn't have the time to go through the extensiveness of the edits and re-edits. Pretty wild for it to get reverted and then go back and make those edits AGAIN 😵💫
@@BrettHornig-oo9zj Yeah it seemed pretty heavy handed. They removed references to Kilian's mountaineering FKTs for example, which is just... weird. Worth noting that when reverting their edits, the "best ultra marathon runner of all time" bit was not added back, so the mods actually agreed that it was puffery. We all know its true, but that isn't how Wikipedia works :p
@@kimaboe what the hell are you talking about? She claims to be bullied and it’s ruining her life so she’s going to erase the factual accomplishments of specific racers. She is the bully. I’m glad she lost her sponsorship and I hope that race directors will review her accomplishments and their behavioural rules and start deleting, her from races
I thought the same thing. There is something that has happened in her life, or something going on psychologically, that would lead to engage in this type of negative behavior as a quest for validation.
I dont understand why this is such a shock for you guys-in Denmark even before Stine Rex started her 6dqy wr attempt, she told the puplic that Herron was going to be very “active” even during her attempt. And while Stine was running she already made tweets about David Stoltenborg(the male ultrarunner in the attempt) saying he was pacing Stine… Camille had a long history of hacing Stine Rex when she breaks her records. Its very sad to see this kind of manor in the trail running world, not what we are known for😔
Camille has been sniping at elites for years online. A couple years ago someone mentioned Courtney not DNFing any races for that year and camille came in guns-a-blazing pointing to the Barkley Marathons and would not let it go.
Courtney Dewaulter DNFd some hot ultra race early in 2023, then of course she set new records at Western States, Hardrock, and UTMB. Also, Wikipedia is the most unreliable website, because anyone can go in and make modifications. It's definitely a lot of fluff.
It’s been a wild few days. The edits were not about correcting factual information. They were about diminishing and invalidating people and their achievements. Lululemon’s response was reasonable and not unexpected due to the clear demonstration of unsportsmanlike conduct.
I bet she was after some new sponsor deals also, and wanted to do everything she can to make herself look like the best pick from all the top athletes in the scene. It's horrible how some top athletes can be so narcissistic. All the history of downplaying other's achievements and trashing and trying to invalidate attempts of people who have gone after her records. You see this kind of stuff even on smaller scale on local areas, there's always one or two who think so much of themselves that they keep bashing people who are even getting close to them. Telling that some competition wasn't really a ultra, because it was only a 50K or so on... It's just horrible. Enjoy the sport, support each other and live your own life.
There is a difference between being outspoken and harassing /pulling other runners and athletes down. She has tried tarnishing other runners (Ashley, Viktoria - both Badwater runners who I have competed with). I wasn't sure about those things until I saw this controversy and now have connected the dots. I do not criticize people but I criticize behavior. The behaviour demonstrated by her is not in line with the core values of the ultra sport
You two did a great job of the breakdown, and did a great job alluding to why some people reacted the way they did. It's an unfortunate situation, and you both handled it fairly and with class.
Regardless of why or what is going on with her or him, it’s petty and unprofessional behavior. Her sponsors could drop her or fine her or do whatever they feel is right for this type of behavior. There has to be precedent in the athletic world. NFL players do all kinds of illegal things - they can get cut, not cut, get fined or punished in some way. This whole thing is just ridiculous but it’s not surprising. She publically accused Ashley Paulson of cheating at Badwater and Paulson crushed that course twice. Camille never apologized. Camille has created her own problems and should face consequences whatever they may be and I’m not sure what that is…..it’s just so bizarre.
Unsurprisingly, lululemon dropped her already. Since then, the only statement from Camille is from IG in which she says she is victim of bullying. Says she will still run Spartathlon and doesn't really apologize for anything (or doesn't say "oh wow, Conor I didn't know he was doing that,...not cool")
“We don’t leave running” was hilarious! And that is why I care what you think. It is bullying. And what should we do about bullying in the running community? Call it out. And…wait for the second act. Forgive. Laugh. Run more.
This was probably a tough story to cover and shoot a podcast on, but I'm glad you guys did. Your approach was very balanced and professional. You were fair but not overly virtuous. That's why you're the best in the business. Thanks guys!
18:18 I thought the whole point was that ultra-running culture is not basketball or football culture, and other elite ultra-runners don't do what this woman and her husband have done.
Sounds like some classic gaslighting (and therefore bullying) going on by Holt, especially in him pointing to legitimate full-time Wikipedia employees as "bullies". I think this story will see some new developments in coming weeks.
It’s not surprising. Anyone self proclaiming themselves the “The Worlds Best Ultrarunner” or “best of anything,” probably has it within themselves to do stuff like this or in this case let someone do it for them. Theres a difference between others proclaiming you the best at something and you proclaiming yourself. Seems like a case of narcissism to me.
I hate to admit that I made a negative comment on another stream. I do regret it now and wished I waited Not that I think she isn't wrong but I don't wish to be a negative force online. Thanks for helping us see the better approach.
Jealousy and ego makes folks do funny things. We see it in cycling, figure skating, etc. Further, I think we forget that we are all humans with flaws. Our favorite athletes have their flaws, regardless of their talents and successes. I do want to add something after reflecting on this -- I have no idea whether what happened here is Camille or her husband or both. We have no idea what Camille and her husband's relationship is like, and the various motivating forces in that relationship. In the end, Camille could take this as a big misstep and can begin a big redemption arc that improves this sport. I guess we will simply wait and see.
Oh yeah, I'm old enough to remember when Olympic figure skater Toyna Harding's boyfriend hired someone to take a bat to Nancy Kerrigan's leg! A dark day for that sport and the US Olympic team.
The real red flag with camille 🚩 was last year when she acted like she didn’t want to be included in the UROY field. acted like she didn’t want popularity or people talking about her, but in reality, that’s exactly what she wanted. 🤷♂️
Maybe I missed it, but the vast majority of the comments I've seen are discussing how ridiculous and inexcusable their behavior was. Everybody is not out to get her/them. I would argue just about nobody is. Everyone I've seen is wondering what in the world is wrong with them, because their collective behavior is not normal.
Exactly. There wasn’t blowback just from this Wikipedia. Y’all need to read between the lines like you noticed Camille’s denial tweet followed by Conor’s apology only for altering HER page. Where there’s smoke there’s fire, and these two seem to have grown into master manipulators over the years. What’s all this ‘bullying and harassment’ going on? Do other elite ultra runners have this problem? Is it really bullying and harassment, or is that how they choose to view people calling out their bad behavior or whatever else? Also, has she or he ever addressed all of the bullying and harassment they are accused of?🧐. I’ve heard and seen plenty of examples across the comment sections on multiple social media platforms. Yeah to me this Wiki thing was the straw that broke the camel’s back. Given their lack of thorough accountability and responsibility it’ll be interesting to see how this all plays out. Once again, the Wiki thing is small potatoes in the big scheme of things, yet it shows the underlying egotistical and arrogant issues they seem to manifest.
When the news broke, I thought it must be a joke. I would love to believe that Camille knew nothing about this and it was all Conor. But would Lululemon have dropped her without first verifying what happened? I guess maybe they would. The whole story is just so unfortunate. Finn, you bring up Michael Jordan. You brought this up with someone else you were interviewing - I can't remember who. Does being the best in the world, being a G.O.A.T. , being a great artist or musician require a certain disregard for certain norms of behavior, a certain indifference to society's expectations for its heroes? For some maybe, but not for others. Thank you for covering this story in such a thought-provoking way.
Considering that she focuses on bringing down others when they try to beat her WR and her view that ultra trails aren't ultra running, she is 100% in on it (prob why she removed the 'best' statements from killian and courtney and added it to herself). She's an amazing runner with poor sportsmanship.
I have experience working with students with Autism and they think of themselves differently, very competitive, and I don’t think they understand competition the way we do.
The thing is, I love the aspects of Camille that you mentioned. I love that she is a competitor, that she holds trail/ultra-running categories to the highest standards, that she advocates for herself and her brand. I honestly even lowkey enjoy that she was petty about Wikipedia edits, because who isn't a hater online? C'mon. What I don't love about Camille was how she tried so hard to hide that part of herself to fit into a community that's almost 24/7 non-stop rah rah hug each other & go home (which I am all for, because what we do on the trails/road is hard enough as it is). But to hide yourself, all for the sake of brand and image. In the interviews she's had (especially e.g. the podcast she did with Rich Roll) I had to stop watching it halfway because the posturing and fake positivity was too much. She could just be more real with us. I'd love her for it all the more.
so true! support and positivity in the ultra community is amazing and I am grateful for it and have benefitted from it - but it's not a rule. it's okay to be hard, competitive, and be proud of that too! the sport needs confident braggadocios people - it's a part of sports. too bad Camille couldn't own it. "YEAH I EDIT WIKIPEDIA, FACTS SHOULD BE KNOWN B*TCHES" - way cooler, lululemon would love that 😆
So sad… in interviews it just feels like she is soooo unhappy. It would be so great if she got some help… but narcissistic personality disorder unfortunately doesn’t respond well to treatment.
i agree with brett that it’s sad , and i love the empathetic undertones finn addressed. hopefully most people share that empathy and hopefully they don’t think they’re “better” than camille (or anybody else for that matter).
I can absolutely believe (if true) he was doing it without her knowledge. Runners run and often give stuff like social media responsibilities to others. Courtney aways explains her husband does all the technical computer stuff and she runs for example. Even Tara Dower in Finns interview with her said she should “get someone to help her with the social media stuff”. If she did know and participated it’s a sad hard to understand thing.
The saddest thing about this is how it seemingly overpowered the amazing Tara Dower record. If you look here it got 3 times as many views as the Tara Dower one on Singletrack. People clearly seem to flock to "bad news."
As of the writing of this comment, the Tara Dower interview has 8.2K views and the Camille discussion has 7.2K views. I think you're looking at the movie numbers or the discussion numbers - which are different pieces of content! I actually think it's a testament to Tara popularity how well all 3 are doing!
Stupid decision which already has bad results: Lululemon dropped her and other companies will probably follow soon. Her career is over after this childish and strange behavior. She released a statement where instead to explain why her husband did that she tries to describe herself as a victim.
The whole situation is just so odd to me. Putting the effort changing competitors pages, doesn’t change race results. Fans of the sport are going to check out race pages for results. Fans are going to pay more attention to runners website/ social media accounts.
Who even reads Wiki? It's such a bizarre turn of events for Camille and Conor; Camille is such a fantastic endurance athlete.... why oh why do this to yourself? Talk about misfire!
I’d be interested to hear you guys’ definition of bashing. Surely you aren’t talking about the scores of people who finally felt as though they had a platform to stand on to share their stories about these two bullying and harassing them? Many people have been gracefully quiet on public platforms for years. I think it would be great if you guys could get Conor and Camille on and maybe address some of those stories, talk to THOSE people.🤷♀️. Maybe everybody get it all out and over with. See if apologies can be made etc. and everyone move forward. Think they’d be open to that?🧐
They haven't been open to it the last half-dozen times we've reached out 🤷♂. I totally get where you're coming from though and it would be amazing to have a civil and honest conversation with them, they've had no interest in making that happen
Camille Herron is open about her own autism diagnosis. Your take on the "CH case" seems thoughtful to me, but CH's autism should not be ignored here. I have a lot of experience with people "on the spectrum". The fact that she is seemingly unaware of her own socially unacceptable behavior is quite common among people with ASD. Yes, CH and her husband certainly need help, I agree with that. But change can be very hard for adults with ASD. I suspect her husband is not up to task of helping, and he has definetely made things worse for CH by going after her competitors on her behalf. To me this is a tragic family situation, and a possible case of "folie a deux".
There is so much more money and prestige now associated with the upper echelons of this sport than there was just a few years ago. Human nature being what it is, it is inevitable that this sort of behavior will emerge and become more common. Some athletes and their management will take the high road and keep it classy, but others will not. Losing sponsorships will perhaps regulate some of this sort of thing, but it will still happen.
My first reaction was........DISAPPOINTMENT........I left triathlon because of the egos and came into Ultra's because I loved the family dynamic and everyone was so welcoming. I get you are always going to have those personalities that brash and rub people the wrong way but to degrade and downplay others accompliments goes into High School mean girls club.
@@runsingletrack That was the section where I said I doubt lulu does anything drastic, and I was sure wrong about that! I would love to be a fly on the wall during those PR meetings
The past few years, I've done major shenanigans to celebrate my streaking anniversary. This year, in honor of Camille, I am doing the Okayest Six Day run. Complete with a wiki page. Come at me Camille! Pissing contest to being the most mediocre to bad runner EVARRR. I will make my own outlandish edits. I figure "sneaking" a fast mile on a Bird scooter will definitely happen.
Playing devils advocate with the correction is perplexing. where is there a road race longer than a half marathon it is common vernacular that anything known as an ultra is assumed to be on the trail Also trying to give the excuse that she didn’t know, and she is completely innocent shows that he has never seen an interview with her … this behaviour isn’t new. She is always blaming other people implying her poor performance is due to bullying.😂
So let me get this straight : there are wars in Ukraine, Gaza and a lot more places on Earth than we care to remember, disease spreading, floods , hurricanes and outright destruction everywhere. But once Miss Camille has a princess moment, the whole internet just stops and comments. Are we loosing it as a species ?
What are your thoughts on this situation? Comment below to get the discussion started.
Honestly the whole thing is crazy. I understand her wanting to make the distinction between road ultras and trail ultras, but I'm just not sure it's her place to police the words used on a public web page. It's so weird, but I don't really see anything 'wrong' with her trying to make the distinctions. If what she was editing wasn't made up or false, then it stays at just weird/odd behavior.
It is a bad look for ultrarunning. It seems like this is who she is. Her mom even went to facebook trying to see this was fake and made up... Their family has some issues
it's sad. I saw on a Tara Dower reddit article, the top comment was about this wiki crap. I get why Camille and her partner would do this: money from sponsors. it's not ego or mental health. she's just trying to write history that paints her as the GOAT because that plays well. But yeah, someone I work with asked me if I knew about this today, someone that I don't even think owns running shoes of any kind.
@@randmcnally.Dower!
@@buckeyejen1076 haha, thank you.
Courtney: always trying to point out how great her competitors are, how others inspire her, any opportunity to share the spotlight and glory. She doesn’t care….
Rumour has it Kilian is in the studio recording a ‘not like us’ type diss track rn
a good source in trail running says camille was behind corrine's firing, as well as the leaking of the killian/zach email.
ok this is good😆☠️
😂😂
If you’ve watched a single interview with her then none of this news is the least bit surprising
No no in they did NOT only "correct" ultra-marathoner to trail !! The article shows exactly what text was removed and changed and it was a lot more than that!!
Brett, they didn't insert "trail", they pretty much deleted the entire bios of both Courtney and Kilian, including correctly sourced race results IIRC. If all they did was remove the unsourced claim about "widely regarded as one of the greatest ultra marathon runners" as un-encyclopedic and probably "original research" (prohibited by Wikipedia policy) they would have been a lot more justified. But they went beyond correction into essentially vandalism. In the case of Kilian, the edits were also reverted by moderators, and then they did it again, three full weeks later.
The actual account bans were for edit-warring and sock-puppetry. At the end of the day, it is against wikipedia policy for subjects of articles to edit those articles, and that includes family members or management.
I don't think they did this to bully anyone, it just seems like insecurity and lashing out at the world for not getting recognition. Her losing sponsors is unfortunate and sad.
@@kimaboe Thanks for the clarification on that! I didn't have the time to go through the extensiveness of the edits and re-edits. Pretty wild for it to get reverted and then go back and make those edits AGAIN 😵💫
@@BrettHornig-oo9zj Yeah it seemed pretty heavy handed. They removed references to Kilian's mountaineering FKTs for example, which is just... weird. Worth noting that when reverting their edits, the "best ultra marathon runner of all time" bit was not added back, so the mods actually agreed that it was puffery. We all know its true, but that isn't how Wikipedia works :p
@@kimaboethis was by far the weirdest part to me! Like why even take the time to do that? Those mountain FKTs have literally nothing to do with you!
@@kimaboe what the hell are you talking about? She claims to be bullied and it’s ruining her life so she’s going to erase the factual accomplishments of specific racers. She is the bully. I’m glad she lost her sponsorship and I hope that race directors will review her accomplishments and their behavioural rules and start deleting, her from races
I feel sad for her and the state she is in to have this behavior. And now with defamation- she must be in a really
dark place.
So sad for sure. Hope she is ok.
I thought the same thing. There is something that has happened in her life, or something going on psychologically, that would lead to engage in this type of negative behavior as a quest for validation.
I dont understand why this is such a shock for you guys-in Denmark even before Stine Rex started her 6dqy wr attempt, she told the puplic that Herron was going to be very “active” even during her attempt.
And while Stine was running she already made tweets about David Stoltenborg(the male ultrarunner in the attempt) saying he was pacing Stine… Camille had a long history of hacing Stine Rex when she breaks her records. Its very sad to see this kind of manor in the trail running world, not what we are known for😔
Camille has been sniping at elites for years online. A couple years ago someone mentioned Courtney not DNFing any races for that year and camille came in guns-a-blazing pointing to the Barkley Marathons and would not let it go.
Courtney Dewaulter DNFd some hot ultra race early in 2023, then of course she set new records at Western States, Hardrock, and UTMB.
Also, Wikipedia is the most unreliable website, because anyone can go in and make modifications. It's definitely a lot of fluff.
It’s been a wild few days. The edits were not about correcting factual information. They were about diminishing and invalidating people and their achievements. Lululemon’s response was reasonable and not unexpected due to the clear demonstration of unsportsmanlike conduct.
💯
I bet she was after some new sponsor deals also, and wanted to do everything she can to make herself look like the best pick from all the top athletes in the scene. It's horrible how some top athletes can be so narcissistic. All the history of downplaying other's achievements and trashing and trying to invalidate attempts of people who have gone after her records. You see this kind of stuff even on smaller scale on local areas, there's always one or two who think so much of themselves that they keep bashing people who are even getting close to them. Telling that some competition wasn't really a ultra, because it was only a 50K or so on... It's just horrible. Enjoy the sport, support each other and live your own life.
There is a difference between being outspoken and harassing /pulling other runners and athletes down. She has tried tarnishing other runners (Ashley, Viktoria - both Badwater runners who I have competed with). I wasn't sure about those things until I saw this controversy and now have connected the dots. I do not criticize people but I criticize behavior. The behaviour demonstrated by her is not in line with the core values of the ultra sport
She got herself an asterisk and is now "widely regarded as somebody who is widely regarded as a bit of a hater"
Lululemon went scorched earth -- read about it right as BHorn mentioned that they wouldn't do it the day after! Insane.
You two did a great job of the breakdown, and did a great job alluding to why some people reacted the way they did. It's an unfortunate situation, and you both handled it fairly and with class.
It definitely doesn't seem very fun to live life as a zero sum game where you need to pull others down in an effort to elevate oneself.
@@jimduyck sort of reminds you of some certain politicians.
Regardless of why or what is going on with her or him, it’s petty and unprofessional behavior. Her sponsors could drop her or fine her or do whatever they feel is right for this type of behavior. There has to be precedent in the athletic world. NFL players do all kinds of illegal things - they can get cut, not cut, get fined or punished in some way. This whole thing is just ridiculous but it’s not surprising. She publically accused Ashley Paulson of cheating at Badwater and Paulson crushed that course twice. Camille never apologized. Camille has created her own problems and should face consequences whatever they may be and I’m not sure what that is…..it’s just so bizarre.
Unsurprisingly, lululemon dropped her already. Since then, the only statement from Camille is from IG in which she says she is victim of bullying. Says she will still run Spartathlon and doesn't really apologize for anything (or doesn't say "oh wow, Conor I didn't know he was doing that,...not cool")
Lululemon dropped her.
That’s not what her Wikipedia page says!
@@AckerQ.😂😂😂😂
Coros is in the process of dropping her.
🍁🍁Thanks for the shoutout to our country's (running) journalistic integrity Brett 🍁🍁
I love that she just got dropped from her sponsor especially when she calls herself the best ultra runner. Psychotic behavior
*psychopathic!!!
“We don’t leave running” was hilarious! And that is why I care what you think.
It is bullying. And what should we do about bullying in the running community? Call it out. And…wait for the second act. Forgive. Laugh. Run more.
This was probably a tough story to cover and shoot a podcast on, but I'm glad you guys did. Your approach was very balanced and professional. You were fair but not overly virtuous. That's why you're the best in the business. Thanks guys!
18:18 I thought the whole point was that ultra-running culture is not basketball or football culture, and other elite ultra-runners don't do what this woman and her husband have done.
Sounds like some classic gaslighting (and therefore bullying) going on by Holt, especially in him pointing to legitimate full-time Wikipedia employees as "bullies". I think this story will see some new developments in coming weeks.
It’s not surprising. Anyone self proclaiming themselves the “The Worlds Best Ultrarunner” or “best of anything,” probably has it within themselves to do stuff like this or in this case let someone do it for them. Theres a difference between others proclaiming you the best at something and you proclaiming yourself. Seems like a case of narcissism to me.
What a way to destroy your legacy. Now no one will remember you for your accomplishments, they will remember your pettiness.
You both are such gems. Appreciate your perspectives even though I’m not quite there yet 😅
I hate to admit that I made a negative comment on another stream. I do regret it now and wished I waited Not that I think she isn't wrong but I don't wish to be a negative force online. Thanks for helping us see the better approach.
Jealousy and ego makes folks do funny things. We see it in cycling, figure skating, etc. Further, I think we forget that we are all humans with flaws. Our favorite athletes have their flaws, regardless of their talents and successes. I do want to add something after reflecting on this -- I have no idea whether what happened here is Camille or her husband or both. We have no idea what Camille and her husband's relationship is like, and the various motivating forces in that relationship. In the end, Camille could take this as a big misstep and can begin a big redemption arc that improves this sport. I guess we will simply wait and see.
Oh yeah, I'm old enough to remember when Olympic figure skater Toyna Harding's boyfriend hired someone to take a bat to Nancy Kerrigan's leg! A dark day for that sport and the US Olympic team.
She's a great advert for Nord VPN 😜
😂
The real red flag with camille 🚩 was last year when she acted like she didn’t want to be included in the UROY field.
acted like she didn’t want popularity or people talking about her, but in reality, that’s exactly what she wanted. 🤷♂️
Right. I think they thought they could f*ck around. Well, they found out! They’re getting plenty of attention now.😄
Finn reflecting on his own failures and hoping for a path to forgiveness. 🎉🎉 certified baller takes.
Maybe I missed it, but the vast majority of the comments I've seen are discussing how ridiculous and inexcusable their behavior was. Everybody is not out to get her/them. I would argue just about nobody is. Everyone I've seen is wondering what in the world is wrong with them, because their collective behavior is not normal.
💯
Exactly. There wasn’t blowback just from this Wikipedia. Y’all need
to read between the lines like you noticed Camille’s denial tweet followed by Conor’s apology only for altering HER page. Where there’s smoke there’s fire,
and these two seem to have grown into master manipulators over the years.
What’s all this ‘bullying and harassment’ going on? Do other elite ultra runners have this problem? Is it really bullying and harassment, or is that how they choose to view people calling out their bad behavior or whatever else? Also, has she or he ever addressed all of the bullying and harassment they are accused of?🧐. I’ve heard and seen plenty of examples across the comment sections on multiple social media platforms.
Yeah to me this Wiki thing was the straw that broke the camel’s back.
Given their lack of thorough accountability and responsibility it’ll be interesting to see how this all plays out. Once again, the Wiki thing is small potatoes in the big scheme of things, yet it shows the underlying egotistical and arrogant issues they seem to manifest.
Who tipped off the author?
Accountability can be a very very sobering thing. Hopefully she learns.
I am not a troll/normal guy living in Turkey and I got blocked by Camille Heron :)
I honestly feel bad for Camille and her dude. Sounds like a miserable way to live.
When the news broke, I thought it must be a joke. I would love to believe that Camille knew nothing about this and it was all Conor. But would Lululemon have dropped her without first verifying what happened? I guess maybe they would. The whole story is just so unfortunate. Finn, you bring up Michael Jordan. You brought this up with someone else you were interviewing - I can't remember who. Does being the best in the world, being a G.O.A.T. , being a great artist or musician require a certain disregard for certain norms of behavior, a certain indifference to society's expectations for its heroes? For some maybe, but not for others. Thank you for covering this story in such a thought-provoking way.
Considering that she focuses on bringing down others when they try to beat her WR and her view that ultra trails aren't ultra running, she is 100% in on it (prob why she removed the 'best' statements from killian and courtney and added it to herself). She's an amazing runner with poor sportsmanship.
I have experience working with students with Autism and they think of themselves differently, very competitive, and I don’t think they understand competition the way we do.
The thing is, I love the aspects of Camille that you mentioned. I love that she is a competitor, that she holds trail/ultra-running categories to the highest standards, that she advocates for herself and her brand. I honestly even lowkey enjoy that she was petty about Wikipedia edits, because who isn't a hater online? C'mon. What I don't love about Camille was how she tried so hard to hide that part of herself to fit into a community that's almost 24/7 non-stop rah rah hug each other & go home (which I am all for, because what we do on the trails/road is hard enough as it is).
But to hide yourself, all for the sake of brand and image. In the interviews she's had (especially e.g. the podcast she did with Rich Roll) I had to stop watching it halfway because the posturing and fake positivity was too much. She could just be more real with us. I'd love her for it all the more.
so true! support and positivity in the ultra community is amazing and I am grateful for it and have benefitted from it - but it's not a rule. it's okay to be hard, competitive, and be proud of that too! the sport needs confident braggadocios people - it's a part of sports. too bad Camille couldn't own it. "YEAH I EDIT WIKIPEDIA, FACTS SHOULD BE KNOWN B*TCHES" - way cooler, lululemon would love that 😆
"we don't need to stoop to their level and bully them back." --- nailed it, Brett!
Bret didn’t miss a chance to shit on UTMB for months. Guess it was ok to bully an organization but not people
It’s sad. Unfortunately for me they are both tarred with the same brush regardless of who did what. The optics and intent are horrible.
So sad… in interviews it just feels like she is soooo unhappy. It would be so great if she got some help… but narcissistic personality disorder unfortunately doesn’t respond well to treatment.
Should have stayed with Nike... she would have gotten a raise for this.
You guys are really big-hearted, respectful and understanding in every way, without downplaying this “thing” in any way. Hats off! 🤍
I think it's fair to uphold people to standards about not treating others poorly
i agree with brett that it’s sad , and i love the empathetic undertones finn addressed.
hopefully most people share that empathy and hopefully they don’t think they’re “better” than camille (or anybody else for that matter).
Great perspective gents.
Jane Benfer will be showing up next
Nah, Risa is taking care of the grandkids this week. 😂
I can absolutely believe (if true) he was doing it without her knowledge. Runners run and often give stuff like social media responsibilities to others. Courtney aways explains her husband does all the technical computer stuff and she runs for example. Even Tara Dower in Finns interview with her said she should “get someone to help her with the social media stuff”. If she did know and participated it’s a sad hard to understand thing.
Have you listened to an interview with her? It’s her…
I see what you wanted to do there, but Elon didn't do any of the things he claimed.
This.
The saddest thing about this is how it seemingly overpowered the amazing Tara Dower record. If you look here it got 3 times as many views as the Tara Dower one on Singletrack. People clearly seem to flock to "bad news."
As of the writing of this comment, the Tara Dower interview has 8.2K views and the Camille discussion has 7.2K views. I think you're looking at the movie numbers or the discussion numbers - which are different pieces of content! I actually think it's a testament to Tara popularity how well all 3 are doing!
Yes I looked at the discussion of the record which was posted at about the same time. And yes the interview did great
Stupid decision which already has bad results: Lululemon dropped her and other companies will probably follow soon. Her career is over after this childish and strange behavior. She released a statement where instead to explain why her husband did that she tries to describe herself as a victim.
Bit of an overreaction. Doubt her career is over.
I’m not on socials so missed this till now. Both pretty wild and terribly sad.
I didnt know who Camille Herron is until now. What is "steely toughnes"?
The whole situation is just so odd to me. Putting the effort changing competitors pages, doesn’t change race results. Fans of the sport are going to check out race pages for results. Fans are going to pay more attention to runners website/ social media accounts.
You guys were way too sweet on this. I guess not the worst thing to be called.
Trying to be as empathetic as possible..too easy to pile on in the internet age
I wondered why one of my Strava segments has been deleted could it have been Camille🧐
What? Unnecessary crao on the internet? Say it ain’t so.
Who even reads Wiki? It's such a bizarre turn of events for Camille and Conor; Camille is such a fantastic endurance athlete.... why oh why do this to yourself? Talk about misfire!
This further proves heat sells and the sport desperately needs a heel for better storylines going into big races
I’d be interested to hear you guys’ definition of bashing. Surely you aren’t talking about the scores of people who finally felt as though they had a platform to stand on to share their stories about these two bullying and harassing them? Many people have been gracefully quiet on public platforms for years. I think it would be great if you guys could get Conor and Camille on and maybe address some of those stories, talk to THOSE people.🤷♀️.
Maybe everybody get it all out and over with. See
if apologies can be made etc. and everyone move forward. Think they’d be open to that?🧐
They haven't been open to it the last half-dozen times we've reached out 🤷♂. I totally get where you're coming from though and it would be amazing to have a civil and honest conversation with them, they've had no interest in making that happen
The best narcissist in ultrarunning
Camille Herron is open about her own autism diagnosis. Your take on the "CH case" seems thoughtful to me, but CH's autism should not be ignored here. I have a lot of experience with people "on the spectrum". The fact that she is seemingly unaware of her own socially unacceptable behavior is quite common among people with ASD. Yes, CH and her husband certainly need help, I agree with that. But change can be very hard for adults with ASD. I suspect her husband is not up to task of helping, and he has definetely made things worse for CH by going after her competitors on her behalf. To me this is a tragic family situation, and a possible case of "folie a deux".
Brett...thanks for doing your best to be objective and not just jumping on the crucifixion train. People love dirt.
There is so much more money and prestige now associated with the upper echelons of this sport than there was just a few years ago. Human nature being what it is, it is inevitable that this sort of behavior will emerge and become more common. Some athletes and their management will take the high road and keep it classy, but others will not. Losing sponsorships will perhaps regulate some of this sort of thing, but it will still happen.
One of these guys came reading for some Herron clubbing😂😂😂
Pro athletes have a "Code of Conduct" for Sportsmanship & Integrity..
What a kindergarden..
Certainly in line with Aaron Shimmons thoughts on her.
Can someone please enlighten me about steely toughness?
That was a phrase that they added to Camille's own Wikipedia page (adding "puffery").
My first reaction was........DISAPPOINTMENT........I left triathlon because of the egos and came into Ultra's because I loved the family dynamic and everyone was so welcoming. I get you are always going to have those personalities that brash and rub people the wrong way but to degrade and downplay others accompliments goes into High School mean girls club.
If I wanted any of this prima donna bullshit from these pros I'd be a triathlete...
What an ironically ‘prima donna bullshit’ thing to say lol
It’s Wikipedia 🤷🏻♂️😂😂😂😂
17:50 It's ok as long as you're a billionaire.
@27:50 Guess you were wrong about that.
How so?
@@runsingletrack That was the section where I said I doubt lulu does anything drastic, and I was sure wrong about that! I would love to be a fly on the wall during those PR meetings
@@ConversationalPace Yep. They dropped her like the proverbial hot potato.
banned from running
I totally agree with your analyses. Well done Singletrack.
The past few years, I've done major shenanigans to celebrate my streaking anniversary. This year, in honor of Camille, I am doing the Okayest Six Day run. Complete with a wiki page. Come at me Camille! Pissing contest to being the most mediocre to bad runner EVARRR. I will make my own outlandish edits. I figure "sneaking" a fast mile on a Bird scooter will definitely happen.
Playing devils advocate with the correction is perplexing. where is there a road race longer than a half marathon it is common vernacular that anything known as an ultra is assumed to be on the trail
Also trying to give the excuse that she didn’t know, and she is completely innocent shows that he has never seen an interview with her … this behaviour isn’t new. She is always blaming other people implying her poor performance is due to bullying.😂
I like you guys
Hmmmm. Kinda funny. She's kinda nutty though. Not sure Courtney or Killian would care.
lululemon has no balls
Lululemon dropped her (before you posted this). Did you know that?
@@1519Spring I was saying it would take balls to keep her. This isn’t even that controversial
@beanmon2755 That makes sense! Sorry I misunderstood the intent of your comment!
I am not sure using Elon Musk is helpful.
Defend Camille with the hope that she comes on the podcast
Walking on egg shells while in bed with the industry, never thought I would see it here.
So let me get this straight : there are wars in Ukraine, Gaza and a lot more places on Earth than we care to remember, disease spreading, floods , hurricanes and outright destruction everywhere. But once Miss Camille has a princess moment, the whole internet just stops and comments. Are we loosing it as a species ?
I believe the ultra-running world is smaller than you seem to think.
Leave her alone. She hasn't broken any laws. Stop judging