UTMB's CONTROVERSIAL Move to Whistler | The Truth Behind the Uproar
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 26 ต.ค. 2023
- UTMB has steamrollered into Whistler, causing huge controversy. Dive deep into the backstory, those involved, and the clash between big business and community-driven events. Are trail running's grassroots being overshadowed by corporate giants? Join us as we uncover the truth, featuring insights from iconic race director, Gary Robbins own blog. If you're passionate about the sport's future, this is one video you can't miss. 👟 🏞️ Don't forget to LIKE, SHARE, and SUBSCRIBE for more insider updates! #UTMBWhistler #GaryRobbins #TrailRunningControversy
@GaryRobbins @TheGingerRunner @runsteepgethigh
Join this channel to get access to perks:
/ @filmmyrun
Get yourself an incredible Noble-Pro SMART treadmill with a 4% DISCOUNT from this link zwift.run/noble-pro
Running Gear
My Main Running Watch | Garmin Epix Gen 2 - amzn.to/3PaZjli
Other Running Watch | Garmin Fenix 7x - amzn.to/3yssryp
My non Garmin watch | Coros Pace 2 - amzn.to/3wanSpO
Run Dynamics | Coros Pod - amzn.to/39E2523
Heart Rate Strap | Garmin HRM Pro - amzn.to/3N15vKP
Race Belt | Salomon Pulse Belt - amzn.to/3Fxz444
Climbing poles | Leki Micro Pro - amzn.to/3L0o1S6
My running socks | Injinji Midweight Toe - amzn.to/39EY4KM
Incredible insoles | Enertor - amzn.to/37BXtsQ
Budget Treadmill Shorts | ZENGVEE Men's 3 Pack - amzn.to/3kUQdv9
Camera Gear
Main Vlog Camera | DJI Action 2 Camera - amzn.to/3w08TQv
Main microphone | Rode Lavallier II - amzn.to/3MTRcXU
Secondary Lav Mic | Rode Lav Mic - amzn.to/3sr5Yhk
Mini Audio Recorder | Zoom F2-BT - amzn.to/3aVGens
Live Streaming Camera | Canon M200 - amzn.to/3slOUta
Secondary streaming cam | Logitech Brio - amzn.to/3yok2w5
Streaming and Voiceover Mic | Rode Podcaster - amzn.to/3kUcklh
Studio lighting | Falconeyes RX-8T - amzn.to/3M5kR0A
Stream Automation | Elgato Stream Deck - amzn.to/3FuYoaS
One of my 360 Cameras | GoPro Max - amzn.to/3wfg2v7
Other Gear
Honeywell Fan | amzn.to/3wr9DwT
Tacx ANT+ Antenna | amzn.to/3wqPjM9
Music - share.epidemicsound.com/6s7jgj
Follow me on Strava - / strava
Facebook - / filmmyrun
Twitter - / filmmyrun
Website - filmmyrun.com
Zwift Run Live Channel - / zwiftrunlive
LIVE BROADCASTS
Website - filmmyrun.com/live
Twitch TV - / zwiftrunlive
Please subscribe to the Film My Run channel by clicking here
/ @filmmyrun
Below is are links to playlists of other films which you may like to watch:
Ultra Running - • Ultras
Trail Marathons - • Trail Marathons
Road Marathons - • Road Marathons
Half Marathons - • Half Marathons
Live Broadcasts - • Live Broadcasts
How to Run on Zwift - • How to Run on Zwift
London Marathon project - • London Marathon Project
Interviews - • Interviews
Training Videos - • Training Videos
Product Reviews - • Reviews
Random Running - • Other Running
Other Races - • Other Races
Zwift - • Zwift
#filmmyrun
#running
#runningvideos
#runningfilms - กีฬา
![ตีสิบเดย์ [FULL] | ครอบครัวสะท้านทุ่ง "นางบี & อ้ายสติ๊ก"](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/A1rhYcxxNtA/mqdefault.jpg)
I had no interest in being a trail runner. Then I volunteered at Gary's Squamish 50/50 two years in a row. As a volunteer, I've never been treated better, but Gary and his staff, fellow volunteers and racers. So, this year I ran the 23K and I'm seriously considering running the 50K at Squamish. Without Gary, this never would have happened.
Absolutely. And this is what grass roots running is all about. Inspiring new runners to take to the trails and experience the mountains, the scenery, the community and the joy of it all. Someone has to facilitate that at the outset and that’s what people like Gary and other race directors and volunteers do
@FilmMyRun I'm somewhat late to the game, having just turned 65, but I can hold my own. I'm normally a long distance road runner, but the skills are mostly transferable.
I'm from the UK, but ran Squamish 50k in 2021 (the year it was postponed to October and had torrential rain all weekend). I'm not sure if you were volunteering that year, but wanted to say the volunteer support was genuinely incredible. So supportive and memorable.
@cherries4life387 thanks. YEs, I volunteered that year. It didn't rain quite as hard as Saturday, but many who ran both said the trail conditions were worse Sunday. I was at the Farside aid station, about 10K from the finish. Gary and his crew foster a fun and positive environment. I had a great time and returned to volunteer both days in 2022. This year, I volunteered on Saturday and raced on Sunday.
It would be one thing if UTMB put on world class events without exception. However, I was signed up for Desert Rat 50k last year and then the race got acquired by UTMB. What I experienced was aid stations that were out of WATER. At one, there was a spectator who happened to have a La Croix in his personal cooler who was kind enough to give it to me. I'm a mid to back of the pack runner and the final aid station was absolutely picked clean of any actual food. Faster runners may never experience this, but a race company that doesn't look out for EVERY runner on course has no business putting on ultras.
[Copy and pasted from another reply above] So I think it's an issue for newly established 'By UTMB' events. Often these are left in the hands of the original race director, if the race was acquired. Sometimes those race directors and smaller organisations struggle with the increased demand for their event once it becomes UTMB branded. So the infrastructure isn't quite there in the first couple of iterations. Races that UTMB have been running for a while are generally very well organised.
Bigger is not better. I’m a 30+ year trail and ultra runner and have zero desire to take part in an expensive and massively overcrowded race sponsored by a large organization.
Sponsored by a large high-carbon organisation!!
they are deferent products at the end of the day, WAM - is "local" trail race put on by trail races for small market.
UTMB - Is a large multi-national organization who use the franchise model to put on races around the world to tap into event tourism. One of the largest growing areas in the Tourism industry. they aren't looking at competitors from just Canada, its from all over the world to race and get that badge to complete. It's the same as what Ironman has done, A lot of marathons.
I have considerably less experience than you and I feel exactly the same way. I am tired of the same bullshit that is happening also in other not so popular sports (much like train running or running in general). All these ridiculously expensive tickets which are also very much likely to be sold out sooner rather than later.. and for what? These days I couldn't care less - all I want is to enjoy myself doing what I like. And there are plenty events out there much cheaper and much more welcoming for the less experienced.
I agreed
It’s time to boycott the UTMB Whistler event and support Gary and his team’s event that will be happening on the same weekend.
This is not just about the UTMB, it is also about the mass of corporate greed that is the Vail Corporation.
I was already on the fence about entering a UTMB race, not super keen on their general approach, but underhanded methods to secure a race location and push out a grassroots event has cemented my opinion! There are so, so many races available now and so many fantastic local grassroots events you can easily enter races that are great fun, much cheaper than UTMB races and still really well run. I like Cragrunner in the UK a lot.
I don’t think it was underhand, the landowners were being awkward before UTMB got involved apparently, but guess we’ll never really know. I think though events like UTMB, Dragon’s Back etc grow the interest which in turn leads to more people doing the smaller events.
Cragghopper do some great races in the North West of England and Yorkshire.Fell and trail runs and the organisation is fantastic,Highly recommend 👍😁
Thank you for raising this issue. We have to vote with our feet now!
Can't give an example where a monopoly has been beneficial for the majority. This isn't good for the sport.
So far from a monopoly it's not even a discussion. I'm all for the professionalization of the sport. A little competition is good for the consumer, they can decide which race they want to participate in.
@@davidsturgeon7511a little competition?
@@davidsturgeon7511 A little competition? LOL! By professionalisation, you mean corporate prices for a high profit margin, entwined with a lack of real knowledge or understanding of the sport and its camaraderie? I think I know what most of the participants of this sport prefer.
@davidsturgeon7511
Some of the best in the world including Jim Walmsley have already indicated they won’t be participating in future UTMB events, and that guy moved to France specifically for that.
The new ownership definitely intends to monopolize the sport. Gary Robbins and WAM, along with whoever UTMB targets next, don’t have the bargaining power to to merge like PGA did with LIV, nor would they even want that for the sport. This has nothing to do with competition or race accessibility.
@@user-ze9uy5iq5ointeresting about Jim, being a Hoka runner and the link of Hoka and UTMB
Is this on the record anywhere?
Personally, I won’t ever be running another UTMB event ever again.
Shocking. I no longer aspire to do UTMB after discovering this.
I love love love local, indie, community focused races - while the Ironman experience is certainly unique, and I enjoyed it immensely - now that I ultra-run I far prefer events such as Gary and company's. It's a testament to the growth of the sport that UTMB is such a brand, but if they continue to sideline local organizers and runners, there will be (and should be) huge backlash.
I have participated in the Squamish event twice and I had always desired to run the WAM event as well. I thought it would be cool to run UTMB but Gary runs, lives and works in my area of BC and I support his races 💯 .
If the UTMB has to resort to predatory tactics and try to destroy the amazing races put on by Gary and his team they do not get my support.
Obviously my video is only one side of the story. We only have Gary's blog to go by so there may be more from UTMB or Vail events which balances things out a little more.
Yes I agree that it is one side of the story and as far a Gary's blog, I do know him from his events and have chatted a few times with him as I said he does live in my community which is small. He is a straight shooter and would not misrepresent himself or the other parties in their actions. Obviously no one can know the intentions behind the actions of Vail and UTMB as to being underhanded or not but it does not look good and makes them look like they do not have the best interests of the community at heart whereas Gary and his team definitely do.
Thanks for the great video and perspective.@@FilmMyRun
After decades of racing IM, I've been banging this drum for a couple of years. The Polletis brought in Messick to get schooled on how to milk an empty cow for even more.
The problem with supporting local races and making them more robust/popular is that they just become another target for the UTMB juggernaut to swallow up.
This is sadly 100% true.
True, but luckily some races do not have the capacity and terrain required for the UTMB train.
Thank you, Stephen, for your analysis of this unfortunate situation. I participated in WAM last year, and was lucky enough to meet Gary and talk to him for some time. He was kind, funny and a credit to our community of ultrarunners worldwide. As trail running develops an ever-higher profile, and as the strains on the ecologies and peoples of the race environments continue to grow, I think we must ask ourselves some ethical questions about how we, as runners, propose to keep the sport sustainable. I think that the questions you pose in this video are important, and that we will all need to come to our own conclusions about what constitutes right action. But for me, a Canadian who comes from the mountains of British Columbia, where Gary is waging this battle, any dreams I might have had about running at UTMB Chamonix are now over. I am instead concentrating on the races of Centurion, and hoping like crazy that they are able to keep clear of this kind of conflict and UTMB pressure.
This is the best explanation of this unfortunate subject and thank you for taking the time and effort to create this video.
The thing that is gross about what UTMB did is they are putting this race on the exact same weekend as Gary's race was. I don't think people would be pissed off if UTMB went to Vail and asked for a different weekend. The thing is UTMB knows that if two races happen at Whistler within a month of each other, well, the revenue won't be as high because some will choose Gary's race and some people will choose theirs. Very unlikely people are travelling beyond 2 hours to do both. So they chose to push Gary out. They don't want to co-exist. And that is the really gross part of this. I have never run a UTMB race and this basically has turned me off them entirely.
I don’t have the whole picture (none of us do) but I get a gut feeling that Vail/WB is the bigger issue here. I’m done with them and won’t even ski there anymore. Did UTMB ask for this weekend? Did Vail/WB have this in mind the whole time? Was UTMB talking with Vail/WB this whole time? I don’t know and even most people inside Vail/WB didn’t seem to know this was happening.
It's actually not the same weekend but close enough. Gary's races were either the last weekend in August, or early September (9-11th Sep in 2022 I think). The reason Gary didn't do the end of September is because he knows you can get significant snowfall at that time.
I would (maybe) have respected Vail and UTMB starting a new and completely separate event in the spring, if Vail had continued to support the WAM race. Let both races happen for a couple years and see what happens. But it’s clear that Vail and UTMB conspired to effectively steal the WAM event.
UTMB jumped the shark several years ago. It had the Ironman feeling long ago and I stopped paying attention. Keep running local.
I think we should mention Transvulcania. It is a first race which left UTMB system before their contract was over and that happened few months ago.
Indeed. I would like to know more behind the story of why they felt they needed to leave.
Seems to me like Vail Resorts doesn't care about anything but the increased $$$. UTMB has some fault from my view, but not near the fault Vail Resorts does. Head guy there should be like "We would love to host you, but that weekend is already booked. Let's find a spot for you elsewhere on our calendar."
It can only be expected. The only thing that can be done is a mass rejection of any event connected to UTMB and Ironman. Otherwise the support will decend to levels as low as Triathlon, where it costs thousands to enter 2nd rate events.
This was a great summary of what's happened. I don't know that the Coast mountain trail series (aka Gary Robbins') event will be in whistler... but it WILL be that weekend. And all the local folk that volunteer and/or run will be participating in the CMTS event and NOT UTMB. We were all gutted when WAM couldn't go forward. No one believes the spin put on by Vail and UTMB.. We watched the actual process. I have friends from out of the country who ran the squamish events and WAM 100 and wanted to return to volunteer. Who gets on a plane to volunteer?! This is because of the heart of the RDs and what they provide.
Absolutely brilliant video this is Stephen. It's sort of different from your other videos and i personally would love a few more of these informative videos in the future. UTMB has never appealed to me for some reason, however if i feel i want to blame somebody for this mess as i call it, then it would be Vail resorts. I'm clutching at straws but there must be more to this story than we are being told about. My favourite race is the Western States 100 and its all about the organisers having a first class relationship with the California US forest service which they have. The WS100 race follows the rules and respects the land and rewards the area and community which is why they have a strong bond. With Garry and Vail results something must have happened and its a shame all 3 groups couldn't find a peaceful situation. Maybe time will tell and we'll learn what really happened.
I think its quite simple, UTMB says to Vail hey we want todo a ironman style trail running race from whistler where we are going for mass participation and make it a bucket list item for runners all-round the globe.
How would WAM ever be able to compete against it
I don't agree, trail runners should be boycotting UTMB, the whole event now with running stones qualification has become a farce. There are plenty of good alternative in the Alps with a big running community and in UK UTMB is not really needed or welcome, we have well established local fell and trail races and iconic races such as three peaks, without the need for over commercialisation of the sport.
yes and keeps it much cheeper to do witch is important
Hats off to Gary Robbins...UTMB should be deeply ashamed of their actions...well done for posting this...might bump into you @ a Sussex Event...keep on keeping on...
Yes always good to meet people at different events. I'll likely be at a few parkruns and the odd local race like Steyning Stinger over the coming weeks.
Support local trail/ultra race companies or they will disappear. It's as simple as that. Thank you for the video.
UTMB needs to show more class this is terrible for the sport I encourage everyone to read Gary’s blog post about this and to support local races
The UTMB Chamonix race is certainly iconic BUT I am very unimpressed at the moves that have been made to take over and push out other races. It seems to indicate that UTMB isn't about the love of trail running but just making money - and at the expense of other race directors. I hope people don't sign up for them. I wish I could go run Gary's Whistler race and support him. This just isn't in the spirit of trail running and they should stick to Chamonix. Makes you think about the video you made about the Scotland Sky race and what may happen there.
The Polletis and IM love money, it's as simple as that. Soon we'll see people talking about UTMB in the same vernacular as those (Particularly US) triathletes that view IM as 'the sport'.
For those who say they want to see the sport grow, I want trail running to grow too, but I think its worth adding that I dont think that is the issue at play here. With this happening local races will be pushed out to venues where they arent allowed to grow (permits in BC parks or on crown land are VERY different than what a private resort owning the trails can allow). For anyone who hasnt hosted an event in BC, in provincial parks its very hard to get permits for over 199 people per day (not per distance or event, per day) on the trails, so if local races are only ever able to get these permits where they are a set fee, not accepting additional funds / bribes..then the local races & businesses are stunted in their growth. If Gary can host in places like whistler, he would sell out any amount of spots just as he has with squamish 50, diez vistas, and any other event he's hosted over the years. The people are there for whoever is hosting, this isnt an issue with gary or his team being able to grow the sport.
I always thought those were obnoxious too. Growth is not always needed or desired for quality to persist. At this point humans need to stop drop and roll, to put out all the fires of growth plastered to them. I never ever wanted to see our sport grow beyond the hardcores who dedicated their lives to running and hosting awesome events, and now we know why. More people didn't make trail running better, it just made it more affluent. Now we can't race on the most haggard courses anymore, to comply with insurance and municipal event restrictions. Now it's a traffic management event like any other concert or pro sports event, and the enormity makes it feel less unique and interesting. But we've always had mega-sized marathons and mega-sized road races like Bloomsday and Peachtree.
Gary is awesome
Very balanced (and concise!) assessment, thanks 👍🏃🏿♀️🏃♂️🏃🏾♀️🏃🏿♂️🏃♀️
Competition is one thing, predatory is another. It's like not winning by being faster, but winning by pushing the other guy off the trail.
There are always two or three sides to a story. So far we only have Gary's blog to go by. There's no doubt UTMB have been quite vociferous in setting up the World Series, but we don't know exactly what has been going on behind the scenes.
@@FilmMyRun I'm sure there is more than one side.. and of course the big boys like VAIL and UTMB can hire lawyers to get their statements out there. But knowing Gary's character, I'd say that his blog is 100% correct.
That was quick Stephen! Local races are so down in number at the moment and loads are going under so it does add an extra bit of distaste towards UTMB. I plan on a big announcement on my channel very soon in terms of local races so check it out if you are reading the comments (never read the comments!) xxx
You present a very intelligent and balanced opinion. Amazing to see how easily we can fall into anti/boycott/hate "x, y or z" where in reality the target of our natural anger reflex is not some monolithic static cube of pure "badness", but always WAY more complex! "UTMB", though those 4 letters trick our brains into visualizing said monolith, is composed of 100s of good folks and whose parent corporation likely provides a living to many families; whereas perhaps 1-3 people acted ignobly in the Whistler situation. I would provide more scrutiny and angst to Vail Resorts, the landowner, as they had the 6-year pre-existing relationship and ought to have a sense of local community. Unrelated to the ethical debate is my own tiny anecdotal experience. 1 of the 2 UTMB races I was in had a 15-20 minute line for .....water! And after the other one I heard some complain that ASs ran out of water. Pretty mind-boggling if they have the biggest bucks behind them! Most importantly maybe we shouldn't mass worship a few races as holier-than-thou baptisms. I love your idea to value our backyard grassroots little races as much as the glam events folks grovel over. Every footfall anywhere is simply a miracle to be grateful for.
Thank you for this. I was so lost in peoples personal narrative that I had no idea what was actually going on. This was non-bias reporting and I can understand what happened.
Running is free. I just run the same routes when the race is not currently on.
There's no reason to pay anyone to go run on a mountain
Exactly! Makes absolute no sense. The problem is that these days it's all about social media, showcasing your accomplishments and create envy on others. That's why this shit exists - to show off medals, photos and other bullshit. If you really just wanna run, there's no reason to pay for it.
Found this really interesting man, thank you! Appreciated the balance of ensuring you support the independents but then acknowledging the grandeur of the huge events, even if their approach seems pretty unsavoury at times. Subscribed!
Thanks my little Pepper! Yes it’s been a big story this past couple of weeks. Who knows where it will lead. But I really do think there will always be a place for the small local events.
Brilliant video really enjoyed it.
Great video! I have signed up the channel and would also support a local trail running event.
Don't understand the hysteria around utmb, great location but from what I've seen runners are poorly looked after and charged too much, reminds me of a cult.
Don’t agree. I ran two UTMB branded this year and it was well organized and I had a very good experience. I had a heatstroke at mile 32 of one of them and they send a company car to pick me up at that aid station even though it was 40min-1hr dirt road trip. I didn’t have to wait all day there for the aid stations volunteers to close that station and give me ride back to town like it happened once at a local race. That being said, I run a lot more local races than big international ones. I think we all do and that’s is support to them all times.
As you say about the stones, 1 stone is given for UTS Snowdonia 25k, ridiculous entry fee of £90, yet races in France and Italy for the same distance are €30-40 euros.
Gary is one of the top people in the sport and I'd say in life. Dude has integrity and UTMB has none. Ironman Canada (which I've done many times) moved from Penticton to Whistler and now it's back in Penticton. It went from a decent organization to big business. Penticton was a family like atmosphere and Whistler was about catering to people with fat wallets....turned their backs on one of the best volunteer groups in sport when they left Penticton. Your video is a good review but I believe your opinion of UTMB would be less if they started bullying the trail event series (and your friends) in your neck of the woods. The option is basically sell to UTMB or if you don't they will just set up shop anyway. I'm glad Gary stood his ground....and definitely not surprised. I'm so attached to the grass roots trail running vibe.....the Ironman/UTMB people are generally a different cat! I prefer all that money chasing stays out of the sport and leave it to the business world to reduce competition and create monopolies. (Sounds all negative but love your videos and thumbs up!)
I don't think it's so bad as that. The options are not that limited. There are some very big local 100 mile races in my neck of the woods and they are very well organised. I think if UTMB set up a rival event, there are loyal runners who would support the pre-existing events just as much. It's not do or die......as long as you run a good event. The problem might be if your event is not very well run, organised, managed, resourced. Because UTMB's event will be. If runners see a 'better' organised event, they will go there. So the challenge for Race Directors is to set up decent races, quality events. There are a lot of terrible small events which are thrown together with no thought or care for participants.
The trail community is built on the back of the local race director. Mookie has the right of it.
@@chad.haggertythks Chad! Also the thumb nail for this video could be better. Gary is all about smiles and doubt he's fuming.
@@FilmMyRunit's just the modern world. Definitely there are very good and very bad small businesses. Badly organized trail events die but this doesn't relate well in this discussion with Gary. Just when the big "for profits" show up we lose a piece of our soul. I'd rather go to a small family run restaurant where you feel like family than a big chain restaurant where you're like cattle. Both experiences feed you but something is lost with the latter
I think he's pretty pissed off! Did you read his blog post?
Great video. I never knew this 😢
Local races are great. In Czechia, we have many 100 km races with perfect refreshment stations and a friendly personal approach for a price of 20 - 50 Euros
Its the Disneyfication of UTMB, I have some UTMB stones but honestly i'm not sure if i want to do UTMB, i like the local events, i like shuffling along with 50 people on some random trails somewhere at an event but i know that's probably going to die out in the long term, kinda sad
I actually think that the opposite will happen. Smaller, local, grassroot races is where you'll find the "real" trail runners... those who want that community feel & all that comes with that, and are not doing it for bragging rights (not saying that all who run UTMB and such do it for thst reason, but...).
The YT algorithm bright me to your video and channel. You did a great job communicating the situation, issues, results, and outcomes. Good job.
F*&king outrageous. They basically steamrolled WAM and Gary!
Money rules the world. Thats how it has been and always will be.
Boycott UTMB maybe, always have to help the little man.
I really think the two can co-exist. UTMB do need to be careful not to alienate their customers but there are plenty of runners to go round. They just need to sign up for local races as well as the big races.
This has happened to so me many things in our modern economy. First a new thing is created by a small group of enthusiasts, they are more than happy to share their experience with other people and grow, and they grow until the original idea is watered down and financial interests take over. Then businessmen come in who have nothing to do with the original community and are just there to milk it. Formula 1 and Fifa are the end stages of this journey, there is a nice video essay on TH-cam of how this happened to Dupstep, speedrunning is crossing the threshold, … musicians dream about getting rich, not creating the best music.
I was so excited to do the Whistler race as my first ultra until I heard about this. Now I'm excited to never run a UTMB race in what I hope will be many years of enjoying ultras. Immediately pivoted to either Squamish or the Finlayson Arm race on Vancouver Island (that elevation profile, though!).
My background is in the supplement industry. Over the last quarter century, I have seen this scenario play out many times and it boils down to this(IME/IMO): Once the people who have the PASSION for a thing, good, or service they provide, often the founders of a company, leave/sell and are replaced by people whose passion is BUSINESS/NUMBERS/Spreadsheets and they could care less about the actual product/good/service being offered(doubly worse if they go public) the whole thing either FAILS or it is NEVER the same and loses that "SOMETHING" it used to have. Even if it becomes wildly popular it's never the same.
I guarantee if you go talk to Ironman athletes from 40 years ago they will have similar tales.
"there is room for both types of events" - obviously until UTMB decide there isn't...?
There is not a sport in the world that greed and money hasn’t ruined!
Yea I kind of get that. You could look at football and say greed and money has ruined it. But at the same time, it’s still an enormous sport with kids all over the world playing in grass roots events. There is still the Sunday league for amateurs and millions gain enormous pleasure every week watching their teams in the top leagues or taking part themselves at some level. Has money ruined football? I think it’s arguable. Yes we can argue about the Saudi League and the money and greed there, but your average Joe is still playing football. And it will be the same in trail running. No one is going to stop you going for a run…. Probably!
I'm with Gary all the way! WAM might have been the best buckle I've ever run. I'll be at Gary's new race, and will tell everyone I speak with. I WILL NOT support the gangster bullies at UTMB.
Very good analysis and comment.
Anyone who knows and has lived in Whistler knows you can get significant snowfall late September/early October in the alpine (I've run in snow up there at that time of year!).
For UTMB to put their race at the end of September is ludicrous. It is a huge risk in terms of weather.
I'm presuming these races reach the Alpine (I haven't seen the course maps)
I had previously sworn off ultra trail events after running UTCT. The events are too big and it ruins the trail experience. The trails just can’t handle that many people at one time. Glad to hear Gary is setting up a new race to compete as I had been wanting to run that race but won’t touch an ultra trail race.
Thanks for the info
No problem 👍
I love how trail running organization are always talking about keeping the trails nice, good luck with that when you have so many people at one race, it's bad for the trails.
There are alot of excellent trail events out there. Most trail runners do it for the love of the outdoors and satisfaction. Let the "Elites" have their UTMB and astronomical costs.
The costs are becoming crazy aren't they?! It is a lot of money these days. But if people are willing to pay then the organisers can feel justified that their event is worth it.
Form what I can gather this is Ironman all over again only with running
Totally. I hated dong ironman events. I did a couple and it felt like I was being processed through a machine. Then covid hit and when other races made accomodation, they behaved despicably. I personally refuse to support them. I will never do another ironman event again and for that reason will never do utmb event. I now only support local races that have a sense of community - and its so much more fun to turn up and feel like you're part of something rather than a faceless wallet to empty
It is always difficult with a sport like ours, (which relies on a large number of enthusiastic volunteers for events to take place), when events grow and start to become large ‘corporate’ sponsored events. Suddenly people start to question why they are giving up a lot of their time, (and in many cases their own money), to volunteer & support an event that has turned into a money making business for the organisers…. Can or will we be able to strike a balance between the two?? …. Ultra running has a fantastic community spirit within the sport…. but, if the sport is to grow and support ‘professional’ level athletes who in turn bring large crowds, advertising money etc etc, then a more business like approach has to happen. But to pay all the people required to run our events for the roles they do, would simply not stand up in any business model, so you will always have these issues. Not sure what the answer is but good of you Stephen to open up the conversation 👍
always something wrong when people need to volunteer and someone else is making money ;wrong on so many lvls i would not volunteer for a big business event ; my time is worth something not saying I should be payed for every hour out there but they should be paying something to the volis
isnt everything messed up by greed? ive been ultratunning since 2000! i see it
I'd like to run UTMB however had a gut full of ironman group and UTA the other year and I'm far happier running local events then the big races.
It is a tough call. I do like the big events just for the spectacle of it. But you have to make that choice because it's a lot of money.
Good video Stephen. Hope UTMB won't take umbridge with you...let's see if you get in again
I've never done any UTMB event yet (only started running in 2021) but I have a dream of, in 2 or 3 years, be able to do CCC or UTMB. I'm not a fan of these big corporations or players, therefore, I'm looking at it with some skepticism. However, until now, UTMB havent't done anything wrong or "evil". Let's see, they had a few quite popular races in one location condensed in 1 week and, in order to cope with the demand, had first a ballot application process and, 2 years ago, decided to sponsor/buy/create other races around the world. So far so good. What they did others could have done. Only in the UK I can nominate a few companies older and/or with more races and/or with more experience than UTMB. Why didn't they do what UTMB is doing? Same for others in the US, Spain, France Italy, etc.
Let's be honest, the vast majority of people that have run a race in Chamounix during the UTMB week loves the experience, their feedback is always over the moon. Why? Something they must be doing well.
Regarding the local/national races, well, probably they can try to improve their game in order to gather clients and survive, provide a better service. It's impressive how hard is it to join a Trail Race here or how bad are some companies. From race websites where all the information about a race is just two paragraphs of marking blah blah to races not accessible by public transport or with proper local accommodation, or starting so early (e.g. 6am) that invalidate any public transport, we have a lot.
Maybe UTMB is raising the bar of our recently new sport and, if the competition doesn't improve and adapt, it will disappear. On the other hand, anyone is free to provide a better service/product/experience than UTMB and go bigger than them. Why not! And in that case, it's UTMB that will play the victim.
You don't need to go big to be good... or great for that matter. UTMB is what it is just csuse of the money and sponsors they have.
I don't agree with that. UTMB started the same as any other race company. Just a small group of people passionate about running and wanting to create an awesome event. They built it and they did it well and the people came. They are successful because they are good at what they do. Like Jorgen says above, other race companies need to work hard to make their races really good. They need to be well organised, well resourced, well managed and well executed. So many are not and that is partly why they fail.
I think some of that is true but I also think lots of people are a bit spoilt and impatient these days. They want loads of swag, fancy photos, flawless organisation and aren't prepared to put up with the teething problems of new or expanding events. And they want them cheap! But then there are many of us willing to pay a reasonable price for an event with good atmosphere and a few sandwiches! There is probably always going to be a market for the 'status symbol' races.
Ive heard a lot about some by UTMB that were poorly organised (no water for 2nd half of the race, 45min queue to get water refill etc...) expensive, and allowed "cheaters" to win (direct in my mind Nice by UTMB). And some are awesome...
Yet it remains the only way to get a ticket for the one in Chamonix that are awesome.
Very interesting
It is certainly a huge talking point this week
I stopped doing IronMan events because they screwed me out of 2 IronMan events during covid, and wouldn't give me my £950 back as they cancelled 3 times and i lost out on flights and hotels. I then came over to trail running and when i heard IronMan were taking over UTMB, who are operating in massive debt i may add, i was absolutely gutted. Support your local runs first as UTMB are the McDonalds of the running world.
That is bad. Things seem to have really hit rock bottom with this so I'm hoping the backlash might spark some kind of change for the better.
UTMB saw that Gary pulled out of Whistler. So UTMB went to the landowner and asked if they were interested, they said yes, applied for permit and here we are.
Choice is simple solo sail boat vs carnival cruise
Ironman doesn't car about it's participants beyond collecting their entry fees. You pay $900 then your race or lose your money.
It’s always been like that with UTMB even before Ironman
You WILL see entry fees go up because it’s for the money not for the sport. Sad. Ironman is known for high costs.
Like most sport organisations they are quickly corrupted by greed and power hungry people who are not neccesarialy a huge part of the sport. Same happening with the Kullamannen race in Sweden which has been taken over by UTMB the last 2-3 years and slowly shifting focus away from the runners towards the elite, this years example no bagdrop for 22k and 50k, only available for 100k and 100M. Why? Also 50k had to run an extra loop of 7k making it a 57k because of course issues for the 100M. I don't mind an extra km or 2 but 14% increase with a loop on asphalt in the city on a trail run?! C'mon!
I see Ben and Sara .hi guys
Vail are the ultimate money chasing outfit. There one day ski pass is over 300 dollars. Since they have taken over Whistler its become the home of the elite.
I've run Squamish a couple times and Gary is the most awesome RD and person you'll meet. And he has a morality and allegiance to our sport that money can't buy. Vail is already a monopoly, now add the UTMB money grabbers. I started running as a poor kid It was a free sport that hardened me as an athlete. To see all the money flying around the sport is indicative of the affluent who took over a working class sport. Support your local everything. Boycott Vail, they are the ones who don't care about the local cultures they impact.
The word 'community' is such a red flag for me.
I find that once it's out there and used by the media, any sense of community has been lost years ago. Just an observation.
yes I understand what you mean. Business likes to use the phrase community all the time. We're building the 'Peloton' community, when all community is is paying customers. I get it. But trail running had it's community long before big business got involved and it's still relatively small.
It will be much easier for UTMB to sidestep established races in places like the USA where so much land is privatised. Living in the UK, I appreciate that most race friendly landscapes are in the public domain and only local council permission is required. That said, I signed up for UTS100M last year, right after I ran it the first time as a UTMB event. I know the race director, who had set up the event that was subseqeuntly bought out by UTMB, has now moved on. It's not entirely clear why he did but I don't think it was under very favourable conditions. Could be that selling your event to UTMB is like selling your soul to the devil - or Starbucks.
I paced a friend at a race recently taken over by UTMB this year and the organization and atmosphere was awful. I thought it was a one off until all this went down. Ironman/UTMB dont get it. Save your money. Plenty of gorgeous courses and amazing race directors out there
So I think it's an issue for newly established 'By UTMB' events. Often these are left in the hands of the original race director, if the race was acquired. Sometimes those race directors and smaller organisations struggle with the increased demand for their event once it becomes UTMB branded. So the infrastructure isn't quite there in the first couple of iterations. Races that UTMB have been running for a while are generally very well organised.
@FilmMyRun I would have thought that except for that the race had a great reputation prior to the takeover. Even so, if you are correct, that’s lazy oversight from UTMB. I work in events for a living (not races), you are responsible for the work of those under you. I wrote a polite complaint after the fact and was not encouraged. Maybe its a one off, maybe not.
I’d also add, that we arrived with two runners collecting stones for UTMb and 5 total crew and after our experience there and the news coming from Canada, we’re now 7 runners with no interest in UTMB or their races. If all of this is “just business,” that’s the kind of feedback they are getting from customers.
Coming with an outside perspective here.
WAM has a place in trail running 100% but they dont have the pulling power of what UTMB has.
also they are 2 very differnt types of events sure they both are trail events but the target market pull is very differnt. If your BC Tourism board what would you rather back a race known in Canada by a select community or a major event with global reach, racing in on of the jules in the crown of all there tourism campaigns. UTMB race in Canada makes sense to be in whistler.
Yup, I'd suggest to not give any money to these corpos. Period. Keep things grassroots, you're not running to get businessmen rich, you're running to run.
There will always be small companies ad there will always be huge organisations. Some of the small companies are idiots and some of the large companies are genuinely passionate about the sport and it's equally true the other way round.
I think honestly it should not be a problem, they can survive together, people are doing road races to BQ some people don't want to spend thousands of dollars to go to Boston, same with UTMB people love trails but some don't want to spend tons of money to go to Chamonix so I believe people will still support Gary I a pretty sure of that and for those who want to go to Chamonix and leave in BC then they have a chance to race closer to their home and save some money.
Yea I’ll never sign up for a utmb race after hearing about Gary robins . Which is a shame as it was a bucket list . Instead I’ll pick Gary’s new race that will compete against them
I think it's worth hearing the Ironman side of the story here th-cam.com/video/ENoM-OsIes0/w-d-xo.htmlsi=noKGs94AYlvzbG2F
The majority of trail runners probably aren’t trying to get into UTMB. Clearly those that are , are runners who are either sponsored or have the money to pursue the possibility. To run the utmb series races and get enough “stones” to get in has got to be costly. Dont know what it cost to travel to Frances, rent a place, food, etc etc on and on, but it can’t be cheap. There are plenty of good local ultras that provide fun, community and personal challenge that are going to be around a long time. The people that talk about and think about issues with a few of these big companies are probably either media are pro sponsored runners or runners with deep pockets, which ain’t most of us i bet. One last thought, its the middle and back of the packers that make the bottomline of any of these races profitable. The top 20-25% of runners wouldn’t begin to pay the bills. My advice to RDs like Gary, out compete them by focusing on the 75% of us and screw the big guys.
I'm not sure what is the cost to travel to France but probably will be cheaper than travel to the Lakes District, Scotland or Snowdonia by public transport. Being local doesn't mean cheaper. This week I booked a race 65 miles away from my house, so a local race, and because it starts at 6am (forget train) and because I don't want to rely on taxis showing up at 4:30 or 5:00 am, I needed to book a hotel near the start. It cost 200 pounds for 1 night.
Probably your situation it's different but for me, probably travelling to an international race (UTMB or other) might not be more expensive than doing one 65 miles away, considering travelling by public transport. Thus, I would avoid generalisations that only rich people can do big companies' events.
@@jorgemoura3062 the story was about Gary in Canada. I was speaking as a guy from the US. I suppose if you live in EU or France the math is the reverse.
We go to Chamonix every year. To be fair it's the cost of a week's family holiday. We rent an apartment and we drive down from the UK. The race cost is expensive, but only marginally more than a big 100 mile race here in the UK. Costs are going up everywhere. Yes it's expensive but when you really want to do something, you find a way. So we have a house that needs decorating but we keep putting it off to spend the money on the things we enjoy doing.
@@FilmMyRun great 👍 to my point there are many who can and will do these UTMB races for sure but even so the percentage of runners from foreign countries like US and Canada who can either physically or financially (or even want to ) run UTMB is relatively small and is primarily the top runners. The discussion in the video is about a big corp like UTMB coming to a distant place like western Canada and harming a local race. My thought is the local RD knows his/her runners (customers) best and should compete by catering to the vast majority who will never run UTMB for many reasons. I’ll bet most European runners don’t expect to run races in the States like Western but rather support big time their “local” races.
Vail resorts are crooks. They have ruined skiing experience over the years. It’s no surprise they are
Going to FUp trail running too.
UTMB are completely detached from what ultra running is all about. It's all about money now.
i can tell you im against utmb talking over local events because I notice in Australia every utmb event cast 1 third to twice the usual entry fees putting them out of contention to the local runners; most utmb events cost an enormous price to run a 50 k or a 100k where I can run these at local events for much less cost ; utmb are slowly increasing the trail running events to a point that locals won't be able to do them or have to choose 1 event a year ; we are not all sponsored ; trail running costs are high enough when to look at the gear needed and gels and hydration;wet weather ; we all want to do events and we all want to keep it at a affordable price tag so we can do more of them ; utmb are big business and when big businesses get topo big they forget everything except profit taking this away from the ordinary social run community
This is what our current state of capitalism brings. It's nothing new. Money talks and wins.
What you failed to mention is that Gary had publicly announced early 2023 that he was through with Vail resorts and was cancelling his race in whistler because of disagreements with them and had no plans to ever go back there or negotiate with them. I am signed up to receive newsletters from his company and I received that letter explaining the cancellation of his race and also he posted it on his Facebook profile. So I do not believe fully in his sore version of being pushed out but I think he was publicly direct about not putting up a race in whistler anymore. Therefore, I see it as he opened the opportunity for the UTMB which was already eyeing to have an event in BC. It is just business in the end. He decided that Vail was too much to deal with (and I believe they really are) and now he is angry another race came and took it and dealt with Vail. Simple as that. He is successful though. His races sell out within 20 min of registrations going live. So he has space and community as is. He should move on with his live and stop this nonsense. That’s my opinion.
I'd be curious to read this newsletter, I'm sure there's more to this story than meets the eye.
His blog post suggests they were stalling as they were making a deal with UTMB. So he had to bin it as it was going to be too late to promote his race.
Was that after they'd been ghosting him and making it obvious they weren't interested in his event? We're they already working with UTMB at that point?
Vail played dirty and put up unreasonable demands that Gary’s group tried to accommodate but ultimately couldn’t. That way they could dupe folks into thinking Gary’s group couldn’t put up, but, amazingly, the UTMB folks could. It’s not hard to figure out how this all went down.
Gary was seen at several LGBT themed events in BC last summer and scared the hell out of people with that red beard he calls The Tickler.
Sorry, but this is half-hearted. The only straight answer is to boycott all UTMB events, if you don't want to support their behaviour. The approach: "I don't boycott UTMB, instead I sign up for my local independent race" won't stop UTMB from "buying" (or outbidding) exactly that race if they want to. They're already too big. The strategy must be to weaken them in withdrawing money from them!
Yes but that only stands if you are convinced that UTMB are an evil monster of an organisation, which I don’t. I still believe UTMB is a net positive for trail and ultra running. They are of course a business but there is plenty of room for local and smaller race companies to operate. UTMB are largely responsible for the growth and interest in ultra running globally. They provide employment directly and indirectly to thousands of people and their races bring in money to local economies that smaller events simply can’t do. Yes, they could do things better of course and I think this particular episode has t taught them a big lesson. But I don’t hate UTMB and everyone who followed this channel would know I’m a hypocrite if I said I did.
@@FilmMyRun My comment was referring just to the idea that register at your beloved local race could save it from being bought by UTMB. I think that is naive.
If one thinks that UTMB is evil or not dosen't matter for my comment. But I think they are as "evil" as any quasi-monopoly in any realm of the world.
I guess Gary made the mistake of trying to do a deal with the Devil.
When your here of the astronomical amounts they charge for a ski pass you would not be surprised.
I feel like the UTMB is going to try force through massive lawsuits a buy out of every major and mid level trail race in the world including ones like Western States to the point nobody is running these events becuse they insist you have to pay for enough events that if you finished them you could qualify for UTMB. This leaves runners instead running the unknown events only and elite pro having a hard time being sponsored becuse of this to the point that UTMB ends up in a lawsuit of its own from these top races doing what they can to facilitate being dropped from UTMB with total countries like say a more ecological minded country like Canada banning UTMB events on the trail side. I could even see top running/outdoor brands suing as well due to lack of representation in running events becuse of the UTMB sponsored brands like Salomon and the others that sponsor UTMB.
Stop ruining trail running UTMB. It's turned elite. I'd always wanted to run UTMB, happy to be in a ballot and wait my lucky turn. I'm not and cannot afford to fly around the world to run their events, line their pockets to do their flag ship event. They're greedy and really making it hard for me to ever want to do any of their events.
This problem would go away if runners would not sign up for UTMB races. That won't happen, because the last generation to stand up for what's right defeated the Nazis. Elite runners egos allow for this and so the destruction of a great thing will happen. Greed fkn greed, and egos...
Gary only think in him and don’t take in consideration the whole community.. that’s the reason this happen
It's difficult to know the full circumstances. Thanks for your input.
U Took My Business
The complete antithesis of the spirit of ultra running. I’ve never seen anyone push someone out of the way in an ultra race. Quite the opposite.
Shame!
I’ve never got into a big event now talk in your western states hard rock but here in Georgia in the USA where I live we got a Lotta great races. We got a plenty of hundred mile races. We have one called the crew Jewel it’s 108 miles with 33,000 feet of gain like hard rock but without the elevation him And I’m really happy and content with the races we have on tomorrow matter fact I’m doing a start quite a sky race but a big Rockledge 10 mile race where we repeated a bunch of times it’s a big a advanced only mountain bike course and because it’s all rock and everything and it’s a ball. It’s only a 10 mile race but it’s a lot of fun and I think if people look there’s plenty of stuff I’m not saying don’t go to your hard rocks and don’t go to your western state but you know you can try forever and ever get in so enjoy what you got a kind of like you’re running stores. Enjoy what you Gotta do you don’t even need an Internet connection. Love your videos man talk to you.
Thank you so much Todd
Put more money into prize purses. Only way you defeat UTMB IF you really want a boycott to be successful.
Joined with IM. Oh dear.
UTMB has been with Ironman for a long time now. That’s not the main story here. But it is interesting how many people are only just finding this out. I’m also amazed how few people know that WSER is part of the UTMB World Series now too.
UTMB, not for me. Keep trail running grassroots.