I only know of two or three books where they made the Astartes the antagonists, The Twice Dead King books and the first Farsight book but other than that nothing.
There's a reason fans remember Istvaan 3 and Istvaan 5. It's because the loyalist space marines lost in every sense of the word. Lost in a way that utterly crippled them. There's a reason people love Helsreach so much, sure the Imperium technically "won", but it was far from a real victory. All the Black Templars apart from Grimaldus died, and it was a close thing with Grimmy. There's a reason everyone loves the Imperial Guard, despite the fact they get turned into mincemeat most of the time. It's not fun or exciting when there's no tension.
Yeah, i unironically respect the guarfsmen more than i respect the marines, oh sure, a single marine can endure 1 or 2 bolleys of pulse guns in the face, but the f*cker is a demi-god in bullshit level power armor and clad in plot armorium on top of that, the average guardsman needs to fight teeth and nails to prevent us fron insta-taking half of its ground in the first 5 seconds, its better, its tense, its cool to see them loose and its even better to see them win, why do you think Yarrick is so beloved?
I like the idea of a novel on a rebelling Feudal World. The Space Marines are sent to deal with this and either Chaos helps them or the knights used strategies the marines have no knowledge of to repel them
Having a book about the Tau when the Ethereals were uniting the Tau would be pretty interesting just have from the perspective of the fire Warrior’s (From what I’ve been told the Fire Nation was the last to join the Ethereals) and how the Ethereals try to convince the them to join the greater good; like the Ethereals try and fail to get the fire warriors to join a couple of time and so they try to make Key members of the Fire nation “disappear” and a fire warrior becomes suspicious of this and starts investigating and right when he discovers the truth and tries to tell all the nations about the Ethereals silence him. (Something like that)
No, rather it should be a story about deep diplomacy at a time when everything seemed in vain. Ethereals do not need mind control or deliberately dirty methods - they can achieve this with the help of the Voice. They are generally very similar to the Bene Gesserit from Dune (the books, not the movies), so the book would be interesting.
This is why I loved Halo's Spartans during the human covenant war era. Most of the stories had Spartans barely scratching out wins. Or decimating ground forces only to have to retreat and lose in a space battle. Can someone tell me, as someone who is relatively new to warhammer lore have the space marines suffered a loss as big as the Spartans did on Reach? Also, having way fewer Spartans in general than there are Space Marines.
I'd love a novel focusing on just after the fall of the Eldar with a craftworld barely hanging on and trying to gather resources and military strength while being attacked on all sides
As a Drukhari and Ynnari fan I relate so much to this video. The human factions I genuinely enjoy are the Guard, The Sisters of Battle, the Inquisition, and Rogue Traders. I'm just kind of over marines and I started this hobby loving them.
Matt Ward might be the one who wrote a great deal of the ridiculous Ultra Marines, and yet GW is the one who gets the final say in what gets printed. It's not entirely hid fault. Stop blaming him.
@@thisisstartacus1175 aye, besides he’s also responsible for modern necrons including Trayzn and last I checked everyone loves them. So give the man his damn credit.
I would say there is a current over saturation. With the Siege of Terra books nearing their conclusion, Primarchs returning in 40K, and the line of Primaris. Especially since some of the other factions have been burnt in someway recently. (My apologies to the Ynnari for what could have been an awesome conclusion to a build up, and also Orks, may Yarrick be avenged)
@@misplacedodstalso shadowsun realizing the eyhereals are shady as fuck, now THAT is a story i wanna see developed, the new shadowsun book is just superior to the farsight one in every single way
Old mans response of "make them lose" is something i'd love to see happen in A fan with too much time's SW vs 40K story. If anyone could do it justice it would be him.
@@misplacedodst a pair of examples in gazillion hours at this point. Still not really those cases, the astartes are what they are and its expected from them to steamroll most opposition. A particular thing that pisses me off is the overuse of the SoB's miracles...
@@misplacedodst Yeah but I was thinking something a lot more shocking. Something like a quarter to a half a chapter if not more lost in one battle kinda big. Maybe Palpatine lures them to a planet and unleashes the Death Star on them. That would send shockwaves through the imperium. That's also not a bad way of dealing with that single custodes. Atomize the planet he's on lol.
I actually started with the Dark Eldar back in 7th edition. While I can find marines cool. I'm mostly fed up with them due to the fact the factions I care about are afterthoughts. It's so frustrating that lore wise I feel like I can't win. I find it insulting that Vect the mastermind of the Dark Eldar's big plan to take over commoragh in the codex amounted to letting Space Marines in to the impenetrable Dark elf space city and let them do whatever they want and leave.
hell the stormcasts and better than the Space Marines IMO. not only do they show flaws, have real downsides to their powers, they have them lose. and AoS is not afraid to not have them in the spotlight.
Yeah, like during the jtime the nighthaunts were infesting every realm in the billions (apart from the elven realm, where they were just in the millions), not even the stormcasts could stop them so easily, and they are purpose built to deal with beings like that!
13:09 This might sound crazy, but what if they made a type of Aspect Warrior that was like the Eldar version of the Imperial Fist. When people fight Eldar, it’s always speed, hit and run, deception. What if you had to fight Eldar and you prepared for all that shit, only to see an Aspect Warrior walk up in a terminator’s worth of armor and just face tank a Bambi blade
I think if the elders were to have their own version of the imperial fist, these aspects warrior would probably be expert at making traps and explosive. They would serve the same defensive role as the imperial fist and still use their eldar agility to perform guerilla warfare against their enemies.
That makes sense. “Oh, you want to kill us Monkei, you’ll have to get to us first”. I would also expect some strong personal energy shields, something that’ll bolster defense without hampering agility.
Thats called a wraithblade or wraithguard, the problem is that: the eldar are actually scary when fighting on their own turf, sure during the great crusade some craftworlds got annihilated, but that was way back when the space marines had primarchs snd came in the hundreds of thousands! The novel where the chapter is randomly attacking a craftworld is retardedly stupid, why would the legion of the damned help them?! Not to mention that when fabius bile tried to do that with emperor children and slaaneshi daemons and its own creations, the eldar annihilated his forces, the CSM could BARELY hold a plaza, *ON A MINOR CRAFTORWORLD*
What I wanna see is all the obnoxious “I’M A GLORIOUS HERO OF HUMANITY,” type space marines get their shit pushed in while they were grandstanding, and then guys like the Iron Hands and the Raptors, who only care about getting the job done, come in and save their asses. Some humility for the “STALWART HEROES OF THE IMPERIUM,” and a reminder from the chapters that don’t give a shit about honor or glory that sometimes, dueling the enemy champion while your men hold off the horde is a BAD idea, and you should probably just shoot the bastard and keep your damn helmet on. A message from the more functional, less ornate marines that don’t beat their chests about how cool they are, that says “Get your shit together, the enemy doesn’t give a fuck about your speech, the majority of the imperium will never hear it. Sheathe your sword, grab your bolter, just shoot the bastard and be done with it.”
Dark Eldar Archon: You will not destroy my ship with thousands of Human slaves on it. Salamander Character: I know, but they can. Marines Malevolent show up
The SM books are also too straightforward. Its always the most "battle, battle, talking, battle" plots. And that could work. But some of the most memorable WH books are the ones that break the mold. I will remember Watcher In The Rain, but i will not remember the Ultramarines one. And i am not even saying that they need to stop making SM books, just put more effort in it. Do a spy novel, where a SM is investigating parts of their chapter going rogue. Not going Chaos, but maybe trying to defect or even turn the chapter into the High Lords or an Inquisitor personal army. A book about politics and ethics of whos orders one chooses to follow. Or if you want more action, go Die Hard mode. A SM squad gets massacred and the only survivor is a novice scout and now he has to survive against the odds. Do it in on Necromunda and you can use his POV to explore and intoduce that planet to new fans.
for me the first army i wanted was IG. being in the army that faction was the one that called to me just a bunch of humans that did the best with what they had and yet held the line NUTS! Battle of the bulge. never got around to getting a army started was kicked out of a GW store for being in the army and never have went back to any GW store since.
You were kicked out of a store because you were in the army? What the hell did they have against the army? And why the hell are they working in a war gaming store?
@@cpaul562 short story is the manager of the store was protesting the war in Iraq at the time and i was a young dumb E-2 or E-4 that did not know any better so i did not raise a stink like i shroud have and was wearing my uniform at the time on my way back to Iraq from leave and was going to get a starter army to deck out in my units markings ended up getting a $1200 laptop from Best Buy instead. this was 20 or so years ago i don't think the store is even around anymore.
@@matthewdougherty1159 the manager was a fucken idiot and a jerk, I mean you weren’t the guy who started that war, if had such a problem with the war he should have gone after the politicians and business owners who caused it. Any thank you for your service and I hope you’re doing well.
I think GW's greatest mistake is shifting attention to the marines. In my opinion the bulk of the stories in the setting should revolve more around the normal humans or human adjacent characters in the setting. Focusing so much on the super humans just makes my attention melt away little by little because they are so hard to empathize with. Plus, too much attention and they just get boring.
You have the “success” of Halo 5 and Halo Infinite and the failure of the Halo show to thank for GW taking advantage of the current state of modern Sci-Fi
@@uria3679 That feels like an EXTREME stretch by every sense of the world. That insinuates the space marines have only had such intense favoritism since 2015, which is fuckin stupid. They have BEEN the face of the franchise for longer than 343i has had Halo and I can guarantee the favoritism was worse beforehand from how much I've heard the ultramarines used to be favored. Frankly if you WANT to blame Halo the least you can do is make sense about it and blame Bungie era Halo. You know, when Halo was at such a peak of popularity that it was making the news. That shit would've been a motivator for super space marine focus, not the division for 343 Halo. If anything it would be a reason to turn AWAY from space marines.
While I get that making them lose would help, but seeing that the only way that happens in lore is for Chaos to win. AGAIN. Cause the only way for Space Marines to take a loss is to Evil(er) Space Marines. 😒
Yep even when the Astartes lose, they still win. YOU HAVE THE TYRANIDS, GENESTEALER CULTS, NECRONS, ELDAR, DARK ELDAR, ORKS AND THE TAU, NOT EVERYTHING IMPORTANT HAS TO MAJORLY INVOLVE THE ASTARTES GW!!!
While I do enjoy Space Marines, I'm an Imperial Fists guy, I do agree that they're over-represented in the setting. I've always felt that since Space Marines are the "Emperor's Angels," they should have a way more mysterious and mythological feel to them. I feel like they should only show up when things are extremely dire instead of being involved in almost every single conflict in the Imperium.
Ok so i was weird, my first Warhammer army wasn't Space Marines i actually bought Imperial Guard and the first model i built and painted was a Imperial Guard Sergeant and to this day i don't know why, i saw the Space Marines but i didn't really think to much of them so i bought the PBG's (Poor, Blood, Guardsmen)
Mine is Eldar, actually. It almost was Marines (Dark Angles to be specific), but then they did the whole fan animations thing and I refused to buy their models for three years in protest. Just picked up my first models, a Dire Avengers squad, barely a week ago.
I think the biggest issue with the Stormcast Eternals is it managed to damage both Chaos Warriors and the Empire (to use the old world factions). WHFB was always about basically men with muskets and pikes holding the line against what amounts to Chaos Space Marines. The Chaos Warriors were 9 foot tall, swollen with Chaos steroids and all around inhuman. The men of the Empire were ordinary guys who stand against them anyway because somebody has to. That was the dynamic. Stormcasts ruined the uniqueness of both. They are probably an alright faction on their own but they've definitely taken the "ordinary men hold the line" part away from that setting.
Honestly after the Siege of Terra series wraps up, GW/Black Library should split that team, half of em continue the Imperium stuff and do the Age of Apostasy books which you could do in what 5 books, maybe 6 since one would be entirely focused on the Siege of Vraks (at least I think that happened during that time period) then the other half start the War in Heaven series, give the Necrons and Eldar their big backstory event in epic saga form, the Krork would only likely get like 1 book maybe 2 in that series since it would mostly be about the Necrontir discovering the Old Ones then the C'tan, being turned into Necrons then the creation of the Eldar and their gods and the war the Necrons waged against the Eldar, Krork and Old Ones, would give us some much needed story on maybe a few named Old Ones etc, all the backstory of the various Necron dynasties etc then conclude part 1 of the series with the Necrons entering their great sleep then part 2 would be the fracturing of Eldar civilisation culminating in the birth of Slaanesh and the Drukhari going deep into the web way and founding Commoragh, the Fall etc and the creation of the Craftworld Eldar as we know them today except by the time part 2 is starting the Age of Apostasy stuff would be wrapped up so you could bring a few of those writers over to help finish the War in Heaven saga A few other ideas Black Library could consider are idk maybe a trilogy on the Tau's origins, or if they're going directly off the end of the Siege of Terra then a trilogy or short saga based on The Scouring could be cool like the immediate aftermath of the Siege of Terra, the wars between the Traitor Legions, especially showing when Kharn snapped and became known as Kharn the Betrayer would be cool, plus we know Battle for the Fang takes place in M32 with Magnus and the Thousand Sons attack on Fenris so they could like reprint that for the series as well
Just commenting on the model side, most xenos armies had updates and now look much better. And while Chaos models aren't exactly beautiful they had a lot of new stuff, Guards did as well. So while SMs still have the most of stuff, now is more balanced and Eldar and Tyranids look a lot better. Also if I am not mistaken DA did eat a couple of fat Ls in recent lore and and are about to have a chapter wide identity crisis.
“Cope and seethe Dark Angels, I have rebuilt your entire home world and depicted you as the soy wojack!” -Vashtor the Archifane. This joke was borrowed from Adeptus Rediculus
have them NOT be the center of attention. there's ~1000 marines per chapter, and ~1000 chapters, that's a grand one million marines. that's nothing that's less than nothing that's one marine per PLANET in the imperium and with conservative estimates on the population of the imperium this also means that about one person out of FIFTEEN BILLION is an astartes. It makes zero sense that they are that important with how abysmal their numbers and density are, even at full chapter strength. and that's without going on the all over the place scaling for these guys and blatant power armour in most engagements. Ah another thing, as things stand and are presented chapters simply shouldnt be able to recover their losses the process is immensely too lon and losses per engagement way higher than success rate and conversion time. I like their aesthetic, both armour vehicles and equipment, and some of the ideologies make interesting characters/ plots etc... Oh yeah I don't do tabletop so I won't touch that part.
I hate the space marines due to me wishing for a more realistic version of them. For example the Spartans from Halo. The armor is like many things from GW iconic but idiotic and impractical. Another thing of GW is we know so much info about them we know how powerful is a bolter(we got guns more powerful then it irl that soldiers can use.) To how fast, strong, and reactive they are. We know they wouldn't be able to dodge bullets without armor let alone with. They can get killed with bolters quite easily and thus with irl weapons so their armor isn't even strong. However GW makes them win despite them realistically being worse then 2 guardsmen or modern day soldiers.
I feel about this a lot with anime and isekais. It's just the authors making a self pity insert for the reader and it legit pisses me off. But can't just blame animu-lots of stories do it and it's just aggravating.
For real, though. It's just like "The main character is a fat, ugly, loser who dies and is reincarnated into a fantasy world where he's super strong and hot and gets a harem of beautiful women and is never beaten ever" like come on.
If Old Man is gonna home brew a chapter, I wouldn’t be surprised if he used the Damocles Gulf as background lore. A successor chapter of the Black Templars, created after the Damocles Gulf Crusade to maintain Imperial control along the border worlds. Whenever the Tau try to expand into Imperial territory, this mighty chapter will always be there to push them back.
Or perhaps an experimental chapter sanctioned by the high lords of Terra. A Space Marine chapter taking recruits from the Death World of Krieg. With some gene seed donated from the Minotaurs.
lel my first box was necrons.never gonna play milktoast marines xD. To be fair, I never played only got models. I agree with pancreas other factions get the short end of the stick, a friend of mine plays eldar and his complaints are many. Lore wise and in the table top :(.
I believe there's a saying if 5 astartes fight 5 eldar 4 eldar die and the 5th kills the marines. Okay, start a novel as a "classic" space marine novel and have random chapter X wiped out to the last marine by a random splinter fleet y.
I take issue with Tau lore being changed because space marone players didn't want to feel like they were supporting bad guys bullying the new guys who were good. And I know the whole farsight storyline basically NEEDS the ethreals to be secret mind controlling facists to work the way its being written now, but it stinks of red scare tactics from the Regan era.
"Supposed to move on to another army" Says who? You? GW? Of course GW wants to run your wallet like the football team ran your first girlfriend but I'm not that damn dense, I'm gonna do what I want, and if you don't like it that's a 587,269% you problem.
I love the Eldar, and would absolutely read any book that comes out with them. But we have to be honest, people don't buy them. GW did push that Eldar book about Avatar of the death god but no one bought it.
Marines sue are bland and generic castrated monks. A power fantasy when you are young, that rapidly turns boring if you start caring about more depth. I started watching angels of death a few days ago out of curiosity. The few normal humans in it are WAAAAY more interesting than those generic monk/cavemen. The art looks cool tho.
The problem comes from gw never actually showing that happening, nearly every book with the Astartes has them win, I know of two books where they lose, those being the first of the Farsight books and the first book in the Twice dead king series.
Yeah, my main issue with them is that the whole point of the Imperium is regression and loss. Innovation is banned by order of the Mechanicus, and so much knowledge has been lost and will never be regained. The invention of Primaris marines and all their cool fancy new tech spits right in the face of that and defeats the entire point.
I’m not a fan of eldar… fully justified in that dislike… I’d enjoy reading about the fall … it’d be interesting… but then again I like the tau for their utter naïveté…
Also we get it, you hate the Tau, the Tau hate stopped being funny awhile ago. It’s tiring hearing you go on and on about nuking them. And yes I know I’m ranting and that you’ll ignore this and I don’t care, I just wanna vent.
Seriously. I love this channel, more so for SCP than Warhammer but still. I'd like it if he at least explained the Tau hate so I know where it comes from. Nobody does that, and so I'm left thinking they're either Imperium fanboys or can't stand the idea of a faction that isn't 100% misery 100% of the time.
@@BerserkerLuke aye but from what I’ve heard, his hatred comes from some bad experiences with Tau players, that’s the only explanation I’ve ever heard from him.
Well.... its not really an issue that needs fixing..... Spacemarines and Primarchs are their most selling aspect. So thats why they get most attention. Primarch book? Sold. Spacemarine books? Sold. Aeldari book? *crickets*
Have them be antagonists now and again, straight up. This is supposed to be a setting where every faction is supposedly "the bad guy." Prove it GW.
A bunch of chapters are certifiable pains in the rear to deal with, that's already canon. The occasional Inquisitor even goes missing entirely.
I only know of two or three books where they made the Astartes the antagonists, The Twice Dead King books and the first Farsight book but other than that nothing.
I don't think inquisitors, supreme assholes, is the best example xD@@crowe6961
There's a reason fans remember Istvaan 3 and Istvaan 5. It's because the loyalist space marines lost in every sense of the word. Lost in a way that utterly crippled them. There's a reason people love Helsreach so much, sure the Imperium technically "won", but it was far from a real victory. All the Black Templars apart from Grimaldus died, and it was a close thing with Grimmy. There's a reason everyone loves the Imperial Guard, despite the fact they get turned into mincemeat most of the time. It's not fun or exciting when there's no tension.
Yeah, i unironically respect the guarfsmen more than i respect the marines, oh sure, a single marine can endure 1 or 2 bolleys of pulse guns in the face, but the f*cker is a demi-god in bullshit level power armor and clad in plot armorium on top of that, the average guardsman needs to fight teeth and nails to prevent us fron insta-taking half of its ground in the first 5 seconds, its better, its tense, its cool to see them loose and its even better to see them win, why do you think Yarrick is so beloved?
I like the idea of a novel on a rebelling Feudal World. The Space Marines are sent to deal with this and either Chaos helps them or the knights used strategies the marines have no knowledge of to repel them
That sounds enjoyable
I'm down for it
Having a book about the Tau when the Ethereals were uniting the Tau would be pretty interesting just have from the perspective of the fire Warrior’s (From what I’ve been told the Fire Nation was the last to join the Ethereals) and how the Ethereals try to convince the them to join the greater good; like the Ethereals try and fail to get the fire warriors to join a couple of time and so they try to make Key members of the Fire nation “disappear” and a fire warrior becomes suspicious of this and starts investigating and right when he discovers the truth and tries to tell all the nations about the Ethereals silence him. (Something like that)
No, rather it should be a story about deep diplomacy at a time when everything seemed in vain.
Ethereals do not need mind control or deliberately dirty methods - they can achieve this with the help of the Voice.
They are generally very similar to the Bene Gesserit from Dune (the books, not the movies), so the book would be interesting.
This is why I loved Halo's Spartans during the human covenant war era. Most of the stories had Spartans barely scratching out wins. Or decimating ground forces only to have to retreat and lose in a space battle.
Can someone tell me, as someone who is relatively new to warhammer lore have the space marines suffered a loss as big as the Spartans did on Reach?
Also, having way fewer Spartans in general than there are Space Marines.
I'd love a novel focusing on just after the fall of the Eldar with a craftworld barely hanging on and trying to gather resources and military strength while being attacked on all sides
As a Drukhari and Ynnari fan I relate so much to this video. The human factions I genuinely enjoy are the Guard, The Sisters of Battle, the Inquisition, and Rogue Traders.
I'm just kind of over marines and I started this hobby loving them.
It's because of a certain author that shall not be named. Rhymes with Pat Hoard.
Matt Ward might be the one who wrote a great deal of the ridiculous Ultra Marines, and yet GW is the one who gets the final say in what gets printed. It's not entirely hid fault. Stop blaming him.
@@thisisstartacus1175 aye, besides he’s also responsible for modern necrons including Trayzn and last I checked everyone loves them.
So give the man his damn credit.
@@thisisstartacus1175 No, he still wrote that absurdity. The fact that it was approved by GW only makes it worse.
My first model war a command suit from the tau
The Tau are awesome, they are my main army alongside the Imperial Guard.
Mine was a wraithlord, then i became a Tau main, but i still have a decent Eldar army on the side
Huh, my first painting project army was Daemons of Khorne.
I would say there is a current over saturation. With the Siege of Terra books nearing their conclusion, Primarchs returning in 40K, and the line of Primaris.
Especially since some of the other factions have been burnt in someway recently. (My apologies to the Ynnari for what could have been an awesome conclusion to a build up, and also Orks, may Yarrick be avenged)
We can at least count the silver lining of the Leagues of Votann. Also Farsight not getting turned into a khornate sock puppet
@@misplacedodstalso shadowsun realizing the eyhereals are shady as fuck, now THAT is a story i wanna see developed, the new shadowsun book is just superior to the farsight one in every single way
Old mans response of "make them lose" is something i'd love to see happen in A fan with too much time's SW vs 40K story. If anyone could do it justice it would be him.
I don't think he'll do, favoritism is too obvious in that story
Legends Grievous dabbing on the Crimson Razors
@@misplacedodst a pair of examples in gazillion hours at this point. Still not really those cases, the astartes are what they are and its expected from them to steamroll most opposition. A particular thing that pisses me off is the overuse of the SoB's miracles...
@@misplacedodst Yeah but I was thinking something a lot more shocking. Something like a quarter to a half a chapter if not more lost in one battle kinda big. Maybe Palpatine lures them to a planet and unleashes the Death Star on them. That would send shockwaves through the imperium.
That's also not a bad way of dealing with that single custodes. Atomize the planet he's on lol.
Nah they're pretty balanced.
I actually started with the Dark Eldar back in 7th edition. While I can find marines cool. I'm mostly fed up with them due to the fact the factions I care about are afterthoughts.
It's so frustrating that lore wise I feel like I can't win. I find it insulting that Vect the mastermind of the Dark Eldar's big plan to take over commoragh in the codex amounted to letting Space Marines in to the impenetrable Dark elf space city and let them do whatever they want and leave.
Stop having everything important revolve around them and share the damn spotlight with the other factions.
And also have them actually lose and not a near loss, I mean a complete loss.
@@cpaul562 YUS!!!
There have been plenty of stories that don’t have the Astartes as the main characters
@@uria3679 any truly important stories?
hell the stormcasts and better than the Space Marines IMO. not only do they show flaws, have real downsides to their powers, they have them lose. and AoS is not afraid to not have them in the spotlight.
Yeah, like during the jtime the nighthaunts were infesting every realm in the billions (apart from the elven realm, where they were just in the millions), not even the stormcasts could stop them so easily, and they are purpose built to deal with beings like that!
13:09 This might sound crazy, but what if they made a type of Aspect Warrior that was like the Eldar version of the Imperial Fist. When people fight Eldar, it’s always speed, hit and run, deception. What if you had to fight Eldar and you prepared for all that shit, only to see an Aspect Warrior walk up in a terminator’s worth of armor and just face tank a Bambi blade
I think if the elders were to have their own version of the imperial fist, these aspects warrior would probably be expert at making traps and explosive. They would serve the same defensive role as the imperial fist and still use their eldar agility to perform guerilla warfare against their enemies.
That makes sense. “Oh, you want to kill us Monkei, you’ll have to get to us first”. I would also expect some strong personal energy shields, something that’ll bolster defense without hampering agility.
Thats called a wraithblade or wraithguard, the problem is that: the eldar are actually scary when fighting on their own turf, sure during the great crusade some craftworlds got annihilated, but that was way back when the space marines had primarchs snd came in the hundreds of thousands!
The novel where the chapter is randomly attacking a craftworld is retardedly stupid, why would the legion of the damned help them?!
Not to mention that when fabius bile tried to do that with emperor children and slaaneshi daemons and its own creations, the eldar annihilated his forces, the CSM could BARELY hold a plaza, *ON A MINOR CRAFTORWORLD*
What I wanna see is all the obnoxious “I’M A GLORIOUS HERO OF HUMANITY,” type space marines get their shit pushed in while they were grandstanding, and then guys like the Iron Hands and the Raptors, who only care about getting the job done, come in and save their asses. Some humility for the “STALWART HEROES OF THE IMPERIUM,” and a reminder from the chapters that don’t give a shit about honor or glory that sometimes, dueling the enemy champion while your men hold off the horde is a BAD idea, and you should probably just shoot the bastard and keep your damn helmet on. A message from the more functional, less ornate marines that don’t beat their chests about how cool they are, that says “Get your shit together, the enemy doesn’t give a fuck about your speech, the majority of the imperium will never hear it. Sheathe your sword, grab your bolter, just shoot the bastard and be done with it.”
Dark Eldar Archon: You will not destroy my ship with thousands of Human slaves on it.
Salamander Character: I know, but they can.
Marines Malevolent show up
The SM books are also too straightforward. Its always the most "battle, battle, talking, battle" plots. And that could work.
But some of the most memorable WH books are the ones that break the mold. I will remember Watcher In The Rain, but i will not remember the Ultramarines one.
And i am not even saying that they need to stop making SM books, just put more effort in it.
Do a spy novel, where a SM is investigating parts of their chapter going rogue. Not going Chaos, but maybe trying to defect or even turn the chapter into the High Lords or an Inquisitor personal army. A book about politics and ethics of whos orders one chooses to follow.
Or if you want more action, go Die Hard mode. A SM squad gets massacred and the only survivor is a novice scout and now he has to survive against the odds. Do it in on Necromunda and you can use his POV to explore and intoduce that planet to new fans.
11:30 Commissar, as your laughter was ending, my mind was assaulted with the concept of blue, slit-faced Benders.
Please advise and/or assist...
for me the first army i wanted was IG. being in the army that faction was the one that called to me just a bunch of humans that did the best with what they had and yet held the line NUTS! Battle of the bulge. never got around to getting a army started was kicked out of a GW store for being in the army and never have went back to any GW store since.
You were kicked out of a store because you were in the army?
What the hell did they have against the army? And why the hell are they working in a war gaming store?
@@cpaul562 short story is the manager of the store was protesting the war in Iraq at the time and i was a young dumb E-2 or E-4 that did not know any better so i did not raise a stink like i shroud have and was wearing my uniform at the time on my way back to Iraq from leave and was going to get a starter army to deck out in my units markings ended up getting a $1200 laptop from Best Buy instead. this was 20 or so years ago i don't think the store is even around anymore.
@@matthewdougherty1159 the manager was a fucken idiot and a jerk, I mean you weren’t the guy who started that war, if had such a problem with the war he should have gone after the politicians and business owners who caused it.
Any thank you for your service and I hope you’re doing well.
@@matthewdougherty1159 Wouldnt that be illegal though? Its not like you did anything wrong.
@@loyalcav1575 yes it would be.
Probably a coincidence, but Pancreas released a video regarding the Chaos Warriors in their Age of Sigmar incarnation today as well.
Completely agree, the Space Marine wankery is so damn annoying.
I think GW's greatest mistake is shifting attention to the marines. In my opinion the bulk of the stories in the setting should revolve more around the normal humans or human adjacent characters in the setting. Focusing so much on the super humans just makes my attention melt away little by little because they are so hard to empathize with. Plus, too much attention and they just get boring.
The Titan legion are crying in their dusty corner.
You have the “success” of Halo 5 and Halo Infinite and the failure of the Halo show to thank for GW taking advantage of the current state of modern Sci-Fi
@@uria3679 That feels like an EXTREME stretch by every sense of the world. That insinuates the space marines have only had such intense favoritism since 2015, which is fuckin stupid. They have BEEN the face of the franchise for longer than 343i has had Halo and I can guarantee the favoritism was worse beforehand from how much I've heard the ultramarines used to be favored. Frankly if you WANT to blame Halo the least you can do is make sense about it and blame Bungie era Halo. You know, when Halo was at such a peak of popularity that it was making the news. That shit would've been a motivator for super space marine focus, not the division for 343 Halo. If anything it would be a reason to turn AWAY from space marines.
"Sony Vegas crashing every time I think about it."
I felt that one...
Add some zeros to that 25. 25 wouldn’t be nearly enough for a whole planet.
What? I’ve probably missed something in the video so can you please explain what you mean?
While I get that making them lose would help, but seeing that the only way that happens in lore is for Chaos to win.
AGAIN.
Cause the only way for Space Marines to take a loss is to Evil(er) Space Marines. 😒
Yep even when the Astartes lose, they still win.
YOU HAVE THE TYRANIDS, GENESTEALER CULTS, NECRONS, ELDAR, DARK ELDAR, ORKS AND THE TAU, NOT EVERYTHING IMPORTANT HAS TO MAJORLY INVOLVE THE ASTARTES GW!!!
JUST HAVE ANY OF THE OTHER FACTIONS BEAT THE SPACE MARINES. Space marines find Farsights fleet and get their shit rocked by him and his men.
@@Randomdude.74 that did happen in the first Farsight book.
While I do enjoy Space Marines, I'm an Imperial Fists guy, I do agree that they're over-represented in the setting. I've always felt that since Space Marines are the "Emperor's Angels," they should have a way more mysterious and mythological feel to them. I feel like they should only show up when things are extremely dire instead of being involved in almost every single conflict in the Imperium.
Ok so i was weird, my first Warhammer army wasn't Space Marines i actually bought Imperial Guard and the first model i built and painted was a Imperial Guard Sergeant and to this day i don't know why, i saw the Space Marines but i didn't really think to much of them so i bought the PBG's (Poor, Blood, Guardsmen)
Mine is Eldar, actually. It almost was Marines (Dark Angles to be specific), but then they did the whole fan animations thing and I refused to buy their models for three years in protest. Just picked up my first models, a Dire Avengers squad, barely a week ago.
I started with Guard
*If* I ever get into the tabletop game, I'm going to create a mix of various factions as a singular army
My First chapter were the Raptors. and i gotta say. i love the green boys.
First thing I bought was a box of Boyz.
An ork trukk in my case😁
I think the biggest issue with the Stormcast Eternals is it managed to damage both Chaos Warriors and the Empire (to use the old world factions). WHFB was always about basically men with muskets and pikes holding the line against what amounts to Chaos Space Marines. The Chaos Warriors were 9 foot tall, swollen with Chaos steroids and all around inhuman. The men of the Empire were ordinary guys who stand against them anyway because somebody has to. That was the dynamic.
Stormcasts ruined the uniqueness of both. They are probably an alright faction on their own but they've definitely taken the "ordinary men hold the line" part away from that setting.
regarding civilian stories in 40k i highly recommend the warhammer crimes books (expecialy flesh and steel)
Surprisedly tyrands we’re my first
Honestly after the Siege of Terra series wraps up, GW/Black Library should split that team, half of em continue the Imperium stuff and do the Age of Apostasy books which you could do in what 5 books, maybe 6 since one would be entirely focused on the Siege of Vraks (at least I think that happened during that time period) then the other half start the War in Heaven series, give the Necrons and Eldar their big backstory event in epic saga form, the Krork would only likely get like 1 book maybe 2 in that series since it would mostly be about the Necrontir discovering the Old Ones then the C'tan, being turned into Necrons then the creation of the Eldar and their gods and the war the Necrons waged against the Eldar, Krork and Old Ones, would give us some much needed story on maybe a few named Old Ones etc, all the backstory of the various Necron dynasties etc then conclude part 1 of the series with the Necrons entering their great sleep then part 2 would be the fracturing of Eldar civilisation culminating in the birth of Slaanesh and the Drukhari going deep into the web way and founding Commoragh, the Fall etc and the creation of the Craftworld Eldar as we know them today except by the time part 2 is starting the Age of Apostasy stuff would be wrapped up so you could bring a few of those writers over to help finish the War in Heaven saga
A few other ideas Black Library could consider are idk maybe a trilogy on the Tau's origins, or if they're going directly off the end of the Siege of Terra then a trilogy or short saga based on The Scouring could be cool like the immediate aftermath of the Siege of Terra, the wars between the Traitor Legions, especially showing when Kharn snapped and became known as Kharn the Betrayer would be cool, plus we know Battle for the Fang takes place in M32 with Magnus and the Thousand Sons attack on Fenris so they could like reprint that for the series as well
No the siege of Vraks happened after the age of apostasy.
there was that one time cato sicarius got impaled by a scithe
Just commenting on the model side, most xenos armies had updates and now look much better. And while Chaos models aren't exactly beautiful they had a lot of new stuff, Guards did as well. So while SMs still have the most of stuff, now is more balanced and Eldar and Tyranids look a lot better.
Also if I am not mistaken DA did eat a couple of fat Ls in recent lore and and are about to have a chapter wide identity crisis.
just no
“Cope and seethe Dark Angels, I have rebuilt your entire home world and depicted you as the soy wojack!” -Vashtor the Archifane. This joke was borrowed from Adeptus Rediculus
@@misplacedodst Lol
have them NOT be the center of attention. there's ~1000 marines per chapter, and ~1000 chapters, that's a grand one million marines.
that's nothing
that's less than nothing
that's one marine per PLANET in the imperium and with conservative estimates on the population of the imperium this also means that about one person out of FIFTEEN BILLION is an astartes.
It makes zero sense that they are that important with how abysmal their numbers and density are, even at full chapter strength.
and that's without going on the all over the place scaling for these guys and blatant power armour in most engagements.
Ah another thing, as things stand and are presented chapters simply shouldnt be able to recover their losses the process is immensely too lon and losses per engagement way higher than success rate and conversion time.
I like their aesthetic, both armour vehicles and equipment, and some of the ideologies make interesting characters/ plots etc...
Oh yeah I don't do tabletop so I won't touch that part.
I hate the space marines due to me wishing for a more realistic version of them. For example the Spartans from Halo. The armor is like many things from GW iconic but idiotic and impractical.
Another thing of GW is we know so much info about them we know how powerful is a bolter(we got guns more powerful then it irl that soldiers can use.) To how fast, strong, and reactive they are. We know they wouldn't be able to dodge bullets without armor let alone with. They can get killed with bolters quite easily and thus with irl weapons so their armor isn't even strong. However GW makes them win despite them realistically being worse then 2 guardsmen or modern day soldiers.
Battle brother!
I feel about this a lot with anime and isekais. It's just the authors making a self pity insert for the reader and it legit pisses me off.
But can't just blame animu-lots of stories do it and it's just aggravating.
For real, though. It's just like "The main character is a fat, ugly, loser who dies and is reincarnated into a fantasy world where he's super strong and hot and gets a harem of beautiful women and is never beaten ever" like come on.
You know what’s be a kl video old man making a home brew chapter think that’s be kl on how he’d world build etc
If Old Man is gonna home brew a chapter, I wouldn’t be surprised if he used the Damocles Gulf as background lore. A successor chapter of the Black Templars, created after the Damocles Gulf Crusade to maintain Imperial control along the border worlds. Whenever the Tau try to expand into Imperial territory, this mighty chapter will always be there to push them back.
Or perhaps an experimental chapter sanctioned by the high lords of Terra. A Space Marine chapter taking recruits from the Death World of Krieg. With some gene seed donated from the Minotaurs.
lel my first box was necrons.never gonna play milktoast marines xD.
To be fair, I never played only got models. I agree with pancreas other factions get the short end of the stick, a friend of mine plays eldar and his complaints are many. Lore wise and in the table top :(.
I believe there's a saying if 5 astartes fight 5 eldar 4 eldar die and the 5th kills the marines. Okay, start a novel as a "classic" space marine novel and have random chapter X wiped out to the last marine by a random splinter fleet y.
I take issue with Tau lore being changed because space marone players didn't want to feel like they were supporting bad guys bullying the new guys who were good. And I know the whole farsight storyline basically NEEDS the ethreals to be secret mind controlling facists to work the way its being written now, but it stinks of red scare tactics from the Regan era.
tau is the best faction, deal with it :)
Ahh see that's where your problem was you thought the nightlords we're going to be allowed to do something
I didn't start the hobby with space marines.
I thought about starting space marines, but I didn't!
Which faction did you pick?
@@cpaul562 Sisters of Battle.
@@ErikWarhammer nice.
Why can't you paint anymore I've realized you've mentioned it before if you don't mind me asking
He had stated in the past that his hands can't manage painting for too long.
Another solution; fire Matt Ward! (If he isn't already fired/laid off/retired)
Yes have them lose, have an event were the eldar or orks just get enough of the shit of the imperium and hack down a slice not a chuck a slice -
Ironically I bought tau 1st but I found that I hated it now I play tyranids/mechanicus.
"Supposed to move on to another army" Says who? You? GW? Of course GW wants to run your wallet like the football team ran your first girlfriend but I'm not that damn dense, I'm gonna do what I want, and if you don't like it that's a 587,269% you problem.
I love the Eldar, and would absolutely read any book that comes out with them. But we have to be honest, people don't buy them. GW did push that Eldar book about Avatar of the death god but no one bought it.
Marines sue are bland and generic castrated monks. A power fantasy when you are young, that rapidly turns boring if you start caring about more depth. I started watching angels of death a few days ago out of curiosity. The few normal humans in it are WAAAAY more interesting than those generic monk/cavemen. The art looks cool tho.
I don't quite understand. Space Marines are getting their arse kicked allover the galaxy.
The problem comes from gw never actually showing that happening, nearly every book with the Astartes has them win, I know of two books where they lose, those being the first of the Farsight books and the first book in the Twice dead king series.
so are other races yet the marines always seem to just win!
Also funnily enough, those two books are the only ones I know of where the Astartes are the antagonists.
I like the Primaris... I just hate that they are intended to entirely replace the OG marines. Hate that more than I like them.
Yeah, my main issue with them is that the whole point of the Imperium is regression and loss. Innovation is banned by order of the Mechanicus, and so much knowledge has been lost and will never be regained. The invention of Primaris marines and all their cool fancy new tech spits right in the face of that and defeats the entire point.
I’m not a fan of eldar… fully justified in that dislike… I’d enjoy reading about the fall … it’d be interesting… but then again I like the tau for their utter naïveté…
Also we get it, you hate the Tau, the Tau hate stopped being funny awhile ago.
It’s tiring hearing you go on and on about nuking them.
And yes I know I’m ranting and that you’ll ignore this and I don’t care, I just wanna vent.
hating tau is like breathing air, cant stop that
Seriously. I love this channel, more so for SCP than Warhammer but still.
I'd like it if he at least explained the Tau hate so I know where it comes from. Nobody does that, and so I'm left thinking they're either Imperium fanboys or can't stand the idea of a faction that isn't 100% misery 100% of the time.
@@Uncle-Ruckus. uh huh, maybe for imperial fanboys.
@@BerserkerLuke aye but from what I’ve heard, his hatred comes from some bad experiences with Tau players, that’s the only explanation I’ve ever heard from him.
@@cpaul562 I think I remember that actually now that you mention it, but God is that a dumb reason to hate them in lore.
Well.... its not really an issue that needs fixing..... Spacemarines and Primarchs are their most selling aspect. So thats why they get most attention. Primarch book? Sold. Spacemarine books? Sold. Aeldari book? *crickets*
Nice reaction. But your Tau hate stopped being funny a while ago.
First
No
No, you were second