I like how out of all the people Osiris has been interacted with, he has made sure to not interact with Eris Morn, the most experienced person when it comes to hive magic and dealing with Savathun’s interference. If he had no ulterior motives, why not let eris handle the crown, or consult her for advice with the hive?
I think one of favourite quotes from Osiris that implicates him is from Presage when Caiatl asks if he saw something different. He replies with the ignorance of his youth, unproven faith wilted by logic. If we are rigjt in assumimg about Savathun being Osiris, then it sounds as though she regrets the deal made with the worm gods
@@Techhunter_Talon but now it makes more sense because all 3 hive sisters, Oryx, Xivu Arath and Savathun regreted this deed with the worm gods, and now the hive are slaves, and maybe in the future Savathun will use the guardians to kill the worm gods like she controlled the path against Quria
You mean when he actually bothers to pick them up? Watching him play can be a bit aggravating. 'There are motes RIGHT THERE, just pick them up! Phew, he finally picked up some motes, WHY ISN'T HE BANKING THEM!?' I hope I never play gambit with him.
Notice in the Hawkmoon lore that when the writer says the word Sword, the is 'S' capitalized. Only the Hive would possess that sacred revere for the word 'sword'.
I get a weird feeling she's trying to convince us she's learning what genuine goodness is and that she wants the light more than the darkness now. I get a weirder feeling that her showing us this through the lore tabs is her deceiving us, the players, rather than her being genuine.
I think your right bungie mentioned last year she was setting up dominos to knock them all over in witch queen and something about the way the taken mind died still doesn't sit right with me.
That is certainly a possibility. Then again, her domain is also Trickery, and maybe she's trying to leverage that against her siblings to gain more power -- she did do something similar to gain power in the Books of Sorrow, after all (but those are full of lies, according to Savathun's own claim... dealing with Savathun in any measure is always full of contradictions and more questions than answers). Not to mention, in the Grimoire entries relating to her from the Pit of Heresy, there was mention of her seeking to make herself "a third constant in the game besides Light and Darkness", so maybe she's trying to achieve that by leveraging both the Darkness _and_ the Light.
I get the impression that savathun is attempting to prepare the ultimate deception (a deception of the worm and the darkness itself (most likely attempting something similar to oryx when they fought there worm and gained the power to take) I get the impression that that they are trying to move beyond the worm (I think there plan isn't against or for the traveler but to use its power as a tool to subvert the worm(subvert the darkness and place itself above the darkness and by proxy above the light (potentially they are even planning on using osrisis ghost to to this through potentially targeting the worm with there light and making themselves into a true guardian and not faking the appearance of one subverting the traveler deceiving everyone who thought they were the enemy and even deceiving there worm with this 4d chess move
@@BerenElendilAPGaming I think we (our character) may have shown her a new path potentially when we took the power of stasis for ourself. It showed her that it is possible for a being to wield the power of light and dark without suffering any negative effects. As a result she is now trying to learn about the true nature of the light, just as she learned the true nature of the dark, and once doing so she will add that power to her own and use it to counteract the negative effects of her worm. After all the worm threatens to kill her if she does not feed it, but why fear death when you are able to resurrect yourself from nothing.
@@dragonroots yeah I am thinking something similar (a deception of the worm by becoming a guardian through the power of light subverting the darkness (I get the idea that if this idea is the way there going the enemy of the which queen may not be savathun and may actually be Eris morn)
I mean, at the beginning of the "Expunge : Tartarus corrupted" mission, Osiris says to us : "I managed to underestimate you. I won't make that mistake again". The Osiris that saw us do what he could not when we saved Saint-14, he knows more than anyone that we are THE Guardian that can do the impossible, so him saying that ? And that just one example out of many.
@@LowLifeAM he does sound fascinated by the vex network and says that it reminds him of the ascendant plains. Weird from a man who spent decades if not hundreds of year inside the vex network and dedicated his life to studying the Vex
@@CorpseSWE could have seen an ascendant plane and the discovered how the vex network is Also based on lore Savathûn isn't stupid and she would not be discovered normally It is an incredibly risky move to become Osiris without knowing him and giving clues that he is, in fact, the Witch Queen
You know what would be an interesting twist? If Osiris AND Sagira were being held captive by Savathun for information and the events where Sagira died off screen were fabricated to get him into the city and out of the field without arousing suspicion.
And the second twist is that both Lima and Stockholm Syndromes kicked in, and Osiris and Sagira aren't actually imprisioned anymore, just hanging out with Savathun in the Ascendant Realm
Also keep in mind that there was originally a concept and plan for having Rasputin with an Exo body on the Dreadnought. However Ana is still in the process of building that Exo body and entire situation with Osiris is sus. I believe that Osiris and possibly Sagira are being held captive instead.
Oh yeah, but I think people are suspecting that it's an all or nothing sort of thing. I don't think Osiris was completely under control until he took the Crown.
During Override, you mean. In Expunge Tartarus, he's says, to the Guardian: "Even after all you have achieved, I still managed to underestimate you. I won't make that mistake again". I'm there like "Oh, is that a threat, Mr Osiris?"
I really want to know what Lysander was referring to when he called Osiris a failed golden age experiment that was resurrected by mistake. What was that all about?
@@Ediblebomb I don't believe it to be entirely baseless. Osiris has always been a compelling figure to others, just look at the circumstances surrounding his departure from the Last City in the first place. People flocked to Osiris's teachings as Prophecy, undermining the authority of the City Leadership. Osiris as a figure has always been a little off, he seems distant and removed from events. He's unpredictable, and as we've seen from these past seasons he's now unreliable and untrustworthy. We know next to nothing about the Concordat and their core tenets, but maybe Lysander's words about Osiris are worth taking a second look at now
@@LoreChaplain True it doesnt help that he himself keeps a lot of secrets. Be it secretly meeting with others or spying on guardians. There have always been reasons to call Osiris into question.
I don't know when that line came up in the lore, but there is a chance that when it was writen, Osiris was meant to have been an Exo. Him being decidedly human in current cannon probably means the claim was just baseless filth, possibly playing on people's view of Osiris as a nearly mythical being to try and lend it credence which niether the claim or the view actually possess.
Something I would like to bring up is that the last entry in Beneath the Endless Night potentially has Savathûn in it. Mithrax watches Amanda Holiday bump into a woman dressed in white. At first Amanda looks horrified, but immediately she calms down and the two share a laugh.
You're right! That seems eerily similar to the last lore entry mentioned in this video. Whilst this is clearly a different instance, since it was Amanda here and a man in the other lore entry, it could suggest that whoever Savathun is impersonating is in fact a woman - if indeed it is a woman mentioned in the last entry you've referred to, and its not unspecified? As others have said, Savathun's worm thrives on her deception, and whilst everything appears to be pointing towards Osiris being the imposter (especially his voice lines throughout this season and the final cutscene), it would certainly be in character for Savathun to have deceived us into thinking Osiris is the imposter. All that said, I am still inclined to believe Osiris is Savathun in disguise. But its fun to consider other possibilities like this!
@@MrJakeasaur98 I think Osiris is actually under her influence. He's like a puppet, she uses him to carry out her dirty work and to harbor all the suspicion.
@@kjellvandam5598 Yeah, pretty much. She wasn't horrified, she was just surprised. Because she saw this person in white from behind, assumed it was Crow, went to say hi, and it wasn't him. That's all.
I was hoping someone would notice that. Out of everything he said that is the one comment that Osiris spoke that just stuck with me. The way he said it just bothers me and it still does. It kind of felt like it was....personal.
Yeah I was pretty sure all season, but when he literally just looked over the vex incursion while dozens of eliksni ran for shelter and it seemed like Mithrax and Saint would be overrun, I was definitely certain.
The biggest sign that Osiris is Savathun was when Ikroa asked him: “plotting again I see?” He responded with: “pardon?”. As if he was caught off guard.
He definitely wouldn't just stand there, even lightless, and watch the man he loves get overrun while trying to protect others. He just wouldn't. Especially an Eliksni house that he'd been TRYING to convince Saint to talk to and see that not all are the monsters he thinks they are.
Judging by the Hawkmoon and retrofuturist lore entries, it seems that whatever forbidden truth, whatever “true enemy” Savathun knows of may be revealed in Witch Queen.
I...honestly havent thought about It that way before. I just assumed she meant herself, but the idea that there might be something more powerful Than the Darkness (we already know the Darkness is dangerous, theres not much more truth to survive) would be spine chilling.
@@gabrielpineirogarcia2078 It could be related to the Traveler and it not being so benevolent. For example intentionally building up societies for an eventual harvest by the Darkness. Basically a Mass Effect like twist. That would be a harsh truth.
@@fubu7942 agreed. Although remember What Mithrax taught Eido. "Guardians were Chosen by the Traveller. They are cuthroat and merciless." 'But why would the Great machine gift them that? Wouldnt mercy be preferable?' "Perhaps the Great machine *needs* mercilessness for the times to come. Also, Mithrax defined us as 'weapons' (from the respect though). I believe the Traveller created guardians as a personal protection against the Darkness, and humanity's survival is a side effect she did not intend but rather winged It. Which also explains why during the Red war she didnt do absolute nothing to prevent getting the chastity belt strapped on. Only after Ghaul started taking the light for himself did she react.
"revival is a choice" is kinda scary in the hands of savathun. For each "choice" is an action or plan she can go through and survive the consequence without being a slave to her worm.
My interpretation is that it's the Ghost's choice to resurrect their Guardian, and that she's realizing that if she could convince the Ghosts to stop resurrecting, then she wouldn't need to strip us of our Light to kill us permanently.
@@TheFlyingslug imagine in the case savathun kills us and convinces our ghost not to bring us back that the darkness just revives us purely just to spite savathun
@@lordexohunter558 that sounds amazing. I read some rumor about a leak somewhere that there might be a mission where you can’t use your light, only darkness.
It makes me think of one of the dialogue exchanges at the end of override: Mithrax:"the witch queen is dangerous, but she is no match for the great machine" Osusris: "you're right splicer. The light is the key to victory" It seems like savathuns plan is to use the traveler/light/ghosts against the guardians. Could possibly have something to do with one of the timelines Lakshmi saw that mentioned "mutated ghosts"
I'm so glad that the Hawkmoon lore tab is finally getting mentioned in relation to Savathun being Osiris, I've been saying it's the most damning piece of evidence since people started really talking about Osiris possibly being Savathun.
Something you didn't mention in the hawkmoon lore tab, the word 'sword' is always capitalized, even in the middle of a sentence. This makes sense for any member of the hive, especially one of the original three, as the very idea of the 'sword' is somewhat sacred to the hive.
Something tells me that Savathun's possession of Osiris is a double-edged sword. It's true that she has the perfect disguise for recon inside of The Last City but by doing so in a human body she's being exposed to the nuances of human emotion and doesn't know what to do with them. Hence the constant repeats of "What is this feeling?".
I have had a thought about Osiris' intentions. I think he is playing 4d Chess here with Savathun. I bet they have known each other since the Infinite Forest and are working on killing her worm but also doing it in the way where they can set it up to work. I also kind of want Osiris to stay around since he is a fun questionable Ally.
Id love for this to be the case, itd be a lot more interesting honestly. The only thing that would have to be explained is Sagira, they _could_ reveal that shes still alive but just been hiding and not using her powers to help Osiris sell him being lightless, but otherwise why would he willingly work with Savathun? As it stands she is the reason Sagira died
I have a fun theory that Osiris has been getting in Savathun's way which will lead to his death but before that Osiris is setting up the pieces before he dies and this chess game will be between Ikora and savathun.
I like to think that Osiris really did help Lakshmi because that battle helped unify the humans and Eliksni like nothing else would. But it's also part of Savathûn's plan because now he looks like the bad guy, because we know someone is corrupted. We just don't know who. Which is an intentional info leak on the her part to make us paranoid. Or I'm just completely wrong. Both are viable options.
You guys tend to forget he no longer predicts the Future. He could mostly get info from the simulations of the Infinite forest. But now that hes severed from It thats not the case. Also, Remember Savathun is paracausal. The Vex cannot predict Savathun, so even if Osiris could access to predictions, they would not help him against Savy.
Excellent observation, but almost certainly irrelevant. Even discounting the fact that his ghost would have just healed his legs anyway, it's been months between Coup de Grace and this lore entry, and we've seen Crow in the HELM and the field several times. His legs are just fine.
@@Karkesis I swear the broken legs dialog was added after the Season of the Hunt. Maybe not but something to think about. Maybe Savathunn can control more that one being at a time?
@@DevonHumpert I mean you said it yourself, it was in Coup de Grace. That was the finale of the Season of the Hunt. The dialogue was always there, they wouldn’t change something like that for a mission we only canonically do once.
I hope that Osiris and Sagira are just trapped in some ascendant plane and that Savathun is just "imitating" Osiris's form right now. It doesn't seem likely but one can hope XD
And imagine if both Lima and Stockholm Syndromes kicked in, and Osiris and Sagira aren't actually imprisioned anymore, just hanging out with Savathun in the Ascendant Realm lol
I’m hoping that’s the case because I want Osiris to live because I find him to be a real interesting character even though, at present, most of the mystery surrounding him in D1 has been explained. Also, I just want a fucking character that fills the role of Arbiter for the Guardian (i.e., the player) because our Ghost is Cortana, Cayde was Sgt. Johnson, and there’s just one last void to fill.
The first time I read the Hawkmoon tab I imagined Savathun in a bush, watching Crow and me around a campfire. It makes a lot more sense to have her in disguise as a third camper
My hope is that Osiris, in his time spent searching an infinite number of timelines and simulations to see how many ends of all life came to be, that he is orchestrating all of this and allowing Savathûn access in order to draw out the Queen of Lies and expose the truth.
Something pretty subtle that everyone has missed was Lakshmi and Hideo’s conversation with Saint and how Saint’s righteousness made Hideo sick, and how it made his stomach twist. If Savathun’s whole thing is how she’s a deceitful and cunning liar, something like that would make her sick.
The hawkmoon lore tab is my favorite lore tab of any exotic besides maybe lucky pants Gives our gaurdian character beyond God killing and crucible. Like how our guardian encourages crow to get drunk. It's "cute" for lack of a better word, but scary to know that the which queen was among them
"This form affords me some dignities" makes sense for Osiris, because it would be weird and out of character for Osiris to get hyped up and cheer at a crucible match
There is a line from the season of the chosen where Osiris tells Crow he has to keep the mask on and that he understands what the feeling is, since he has walked these streets under disguise more times than he knows.
It's so obvious that Osiris is being controlled that I don't want to believe it. It's hard to choose the obvious choice when Savathun is connected as she lies to easily. I believe she has grown tired of feeding her worm and wants to become a welder of light. We are missing a big part of the picture though. Something isn't adding up and it's not just the Osiris thing.
I wonder when this possession started, and if it coincides with Sagira’s death. Being lightless would certainly make it easier to corrupt Osiris. Perhaps Sagira was targeted as a result.
It likely was. He said something suspicious as early as the mission to kill the celebrant, when talking about how Xivu Arath is pushing into the dreaming city in the same place Savathun first entered, and he says "Has she no ambition of her own?" in a really derisive way that's out of character for Osiris but would make a lot of sense for Savathun
this even holds true if it isnt posession or corruption, but a disguise, since a lightless guardian is MUCH easier to imitate than one at their full paracausal strength
It would make a lot of sense, considering that she died fighting not only the high celebrant but also the higher ups of the scarlet swarm/ new moon hive and crotas descendants, who I think have also been influenced by savathun in the past
Every time I feel a little bored or fed up with Destiny2 I look at one of your lore videos and end up filled with interest and optimism again. Thanks for your amazing work Byf.
I want Savathun to be a “necessary evil” sort of character and that the Witch Queen’s enemy are the hive gods that she’s grown tired of feeding. Imagine having Savathun as a fucking vendor? That shit would be awesome and terrifying at the same time
I really think that could be the case. Think of how powerful both Savathun and Oryx are, but at the end of the day they're both just slaves to their worm gods.
I think Sav picking Osiris is a good choice, he’s the only Guardian that’s close to the vanguard and us that doesn’t have a Ghost since she wouldn’t be able to have one
I am thrilled when new content is released for the next plot point. New items. Hunt collectibles and exotics for their story. Story is what I love in this game. Nothing excites me more. And I don’t think any single lore tab passes by me. So I know almost all of it. But I still come here to hear what you’ve got. Why? Cause you just do an awesome job of connecting the dots. You do an awesome job of narrating. The content is fantastic, and helps keep my story appetite satiated. Thanks Lore Daddy!
I’m loving the anti-clickbait title, ever since that veritasium video, it’s cool to see how thumbnails and titles work, I love what you did with the title and thumbnail Byf!
@@Banana-Boi I, too, am not convinced in OP’s obsession with thumbnails and titles considering he admitted it after a video that came out yesterday as Brandon Perry pointed out.
You know I just realized that Osiris hasn’t taken his mask off the whole time he’s been back. If that lore card is to be believed it sounds like savathun is making him cover his face to hide the horrid hive magic. I get the distinct feeling we’re gonna have a horror realization involving him having his mask removed.
What convinced me in particular that something was up with Osiris was when he told Ikora to "Cauterize all contact with the Darkness, lest you risk infestation." To me, that coming from Osiris is rich considering he was at one point the Warlock Vanguard who very much played around with dangerous forces relating to the Darkness (and still does). However, there was a figure trying their damnedest to stop us from communing with the Darkness on Io in Season of Arrivals: Savathun. It could very well be a small characterization error on Bungie's part, but being wary of the Darkness is far more a Savathun trait than an Osiris one.
I doubt Osiris is dead, they've gotten his voice actor for a lot of lines and seem to have no difficulty getting him back for every season. Hate to be meta but Bungie only tend to kill off someone when the voice work becomes an issue. So I think real Osiris is alive, maybe captured.
I think the final page of the endless night book hints at his possible return too, it ends with mithrax telling Saint 14 to "find your lost phoenix". For Saint to go on a search like that (possibly another crusade, but this time against hive instead of fallen) and not find Osiris would be kind of a waste
I think the "Choked by rancid ambrosia" line refers to her being near the Traveler and surrounded by light, since thats what keeps our guardians alive, but to her she thinks it's painful or rancid.
Idk why but i want savathon to be like Robbie from LazyTown. The episode where they invite him over to a bday party and he comes in all dressed up not knowing anything about birthday parties. I want her to be the awkward Robbie in that episode in this story, if she does join us 😅 or prince zuko now that I think about it. When he was desperately trying to join the gang.
I feel that Savathun doesn't want her worm anymore. She talk about the "Rancid Ambrosia" I feel that she is talking about the life sustaining powers the worm offers. She also talks about the everlasting hunger the worm has. I feel that Savathun is preparing us (the guardian) to kill her so that she can get rid of her worm. And then later resurrects herself and becomes a proto-hive. And possibly become an ally. like Mithrax wanted.
As a chilling possibility, what if Osiris left because he ISN'T the corrupted one, but rather one of few who is FREE. Saint, us, Misraaks, and the rest... what if we're the ones tainted by Savathûn? If she's tapping us for her endgame (perhaps a semi-noble one, in that she seeks to DESTROY the Darkness itself, to excise the Worm from herself and her subjects). Osiris may have figured out that we're compromised (us, perhaps more than anyone else through the fact that we hold Xol as a gun within our own hands, AND have communed with the Dark itself). And he left because he knows that we're dancing with the devil in the pale moonlight. What if her shell wasn't Osiris, but someone else who's infected more? Perhaps this whole season, Savathûn was testing to see if we could forgive, could make peace with our monsters, as a prelude to her own form of integration. And Osiris knows that. He distances himself from everyone because he knows we're all being manipulated (for good or ill... time will tell), KNOWS that telling us anything will feed it to Savathûn herself. After all, what better cover for deceit than the trappings of nobility and goodness?
The "Beneath..." lore book offers another explanation: Executor Hideo. The entry read here refers to an onlooker seeing the speaker's teeth. I don't remember seeing Osiris' teeth. The very next entry in the book has Hideo becoming nauseous "again."
Taken by itself, sure, maybe. But when you take all the evidence into account, there’s no way at all it was Hideo. Unless you think he’d be hanging out at the Guardian’s and Crow’s celebration.
@@theSixPathsOfTrains It's been confirmed for months. And it's pretty obvious if you're paying attention (you don't break time for "just a friend") that they are together. How is it "distasteful"? ... Let me guess .. You're homophobic? Well then ... Destiny isn't really a game for you then since it is rather Pro-LGBTQIA+ in it's characters.
@@WraithReaper09 I would for a friend. it's a matter of perspective on that one. For the rest still rather been ignorant on that one. I guess this is one of those moments the wisdom "ignorance can be bliss" comes to fruition.
It's interesting how living among humanity it's taking its toll in the witch queen. She was not ready to feel. I wonder if this could make eventually a difference in her plan.
I think the lore of "what is this feeling" makes it sound like savathunn is longing for it. I think she either will become an ally to fight the darkness or we will be working with her.
What if Sagira isn’t dead? What if she’s being held by Savathuun to keep her deception intact? I haven’t read too deep into lore books so if I’m grasping as imaginary straws please let me know
If we were to make a guess of when Osiris was corrupted I would have to say sometime before the season of the hunt. With Sagira killed off screen this could be a clever ruse since I think it would be difficult for Savathun to simulate a ghost. Now the Hive that attacked Osiris in the cut seen where Crow saves him is a hive controlled by Sevu Arath. So it still fits the narrative. Osiris still must be alive and possibly so is Sagira. The hint that he is relies in the perfect paradox. At some point Sait-14 leaves to the Endless Forest to find Osiris. So that the perfect paradox can be found by us once again. So I believe this Osiris is just a disguise and nothing more. And will probably be discarded once it is no longer needed. Mercury will return and so will the hope that Osiris is still within. Meaning that Osiris form was taken by Savathun before the darkness came to claim Mercury. At least that is what I believe.
It could be foreshadowing that Savathun may switch sides and become a reluctant anti-hero. Or it could be another lie to deceive us, at this point, it’s hard to tell. It would be quite a twist though.
@@lukefurno1151 i think we miss something. She just has spread some lies around before to get Imbaru... But like, THIS endless night was her best source of Imbaru so far, she didnt have any more need to create other Imbaru sources, and she already knew Imbaru was failing her (the worm dont care and wants more despite What she has given It). I dont think she is purposedly lying to us, but rather hiding Coded messages for us in the form of stories or metaphors. (That before Season of the Hunt, where she would be too busy making sure not to get her cover blown to scatter more imbaru Lore texts)
It's very interesting that the first ever line Osiris speaks in all of destiny is "every end crawls from the same pit" talking about the hellmouth at the start of the shrine of oryx mission from vanilla d1. In the dark future, eris, who crawled out of the hellmouth after escaping crota, was the one who fell to darkness and helped destroy the city. In our timeline, "Osiris" crawled out of the hellmouth after losing sagira
I think she captured osiris and sagira. I'm sure she just shapeshifted into osiris because she is a trickster. Kinda reminds me of loki. Either way tho I feel like in the next expansion we will try to rescue osiris
Something is definitely going on with Osiris and it definitely has to do with Savathun. But I've had some people bring up a valid point to me that it would be too obvious for Savathun to be under the guise of Osiris. Perhaps Osiris is being either puppeted or blackmailed into drawing suspicion so that Savathun's real guise isn't uncovered until it's too late.
Bungie released a statement about a year ago or so revealing Osiris & Saint 14 are in fact homosexual and were a couple for a long time. But ever since this season, it's obvious that might be possible that it'll end. But also if you visit Saint 14 you'll hear "My little firey phoenix" which is a nod to Osiris.
Byf, the Hawkmoon lore was extremely interesting to me because it talks about Us (The Guardian) interacting with another character through the eyes of a 3rd person. I feel this type of lore is lacking and there isn't enough for us to piece together exactly how are percieved, our temperament/disposition, and how we fit into this universe. Of course, I'm positive this is on purpose, but I'd really really like you compile what we have and to do a video on Us (The Guardian, Young Wolf, etc.). I know I'm not alone. (Edit for grammar)
If savathun is having feelings, and growing accustomed to human kindness and company, maybe she will not be entirely evil, or a one dimensional villain, interesting to say the least
It's clear that while she is a servant of the Darkness, Savathun does not love the darkness. I think over the millennia she has grown to resent the constant demands of the Worm. In addition, it seems the Darkness has no special love for the Hive. The Darkness has been courting us Guardians, offering us power to use AGAINST the Hive. This makes sense since the Darkness is a primordial force and has no real loyalty to any particular beings. But wouldn't it be interesting if, because she resents the Darkness and now she sees the Darkness betraying the Hive to help the Guardians, Savathun is actually manuvering to betray and destroy the Darkness? Maybe we will end up working together with her, against all expectations.. completing our collection of 'enemy' allies.
It should also be mentioned that it was pointed out that The Darkness intends to punish Savathun for her interference with their communication with us. What that "punishment" is and how they intend to execute it is still unknown.
Yuckers “his lover”. In my head cannon it’s still brotherly like it was before that one dev randomly said nah they together. Edit: not in a homophobic sense. In the sense that to me they had a brotherly bond it it feels incesty. Since they called each other brother numerous times and the speaker was a father to both of them. And In the comic that dropped around curse of Osiris saint was sent to fight Osiris and they talked as brothers not lovers. So yeah that’s my reasoning
@@idiotwithanopinion8082 idk I feel like it wasn’t always meant to be that way though. Plus it’s lame af that Osiris risked the fabric of reality for a dick appointment 😂 a comrade in arms is not as lame as dick
I've had a hard time trusting him since that time he brought back the giant vex we killed for him in Curse of Osiris. "This thing almost killed us the first time around so I brought it back again lol"
I think that this is started way back during season of the hunt, before we reached him in the shrine of oryx something happened to him that allowed savathun to either become osiris or puppeteer him
Theres a lore tab, dont remember which, where osiris (savathun) bumps into saint 14 while looking for the device that cut off zavalas light. Imagine savathun with that technology
Should not ignore that she is clearly starting to crave companion ship. She is learning to appreciate and even enjoy socializing with people which is why shes rushing now. If she actually cares her deception becomes truth and she is losing the ability to feed her worm.
Spoiler Alert: Do not read if you don’t want to know about ANY content regarding the upcoming “Witchqueen” expansion. *You have been warned.* Theory: Sagira isn’t actually dead. Savathun stowed her away, and likely studied her to develop her own versions of Ghosts. Think about it. We were better acquainted with Sagira than we were with Sundance (if you had to think about who that was for more than a second that just further proves my point). After all that time that Sagira shared the shell of our Ghost, it seems a bit odd that she would get killed off so unceremoniously. Especially compared to Sundance (who was Cayde-6’s Ghost for anyone who didn’t figure that out already). Or, if she really is dead, in which case Osiris likely is too, I still have my suspicions that Savathun based her “Ghosts” off of Sagira’s design. And at the very least, I think we can expect to catch a glimpse or a mention of her in the Witchqueen expansion.
Finding out that Savathun was riding Osiris makes the line that Osiris says about Xivu Arath invading in the same spot as savathun did super funny. It was something like "Xivu Arath punches through in the spot as Savathun first did. Does she have no ambition?"
I think Osiris is still down there somewhere, and so both his consciousness and even his biology is producing emotions that savathun has never been able to feel before. it's basically a lich if it was masquerading as a cleric or knight
I like how out of all the people Osiris has been interacted with, he has made sure to not interact with Eris Morn, the most experienced person when it comes to hive magic and dealing with Savathun’s interference. If he had no ulterior motives, why not let eris handle the crown, or consult her for advice with the hive?
I thought I was the only one who noticed that
Or eris isnt at the tower?
@@alexanderrego1998 You do know he could just travel to the moon in a matter of minutes right?
@@alexanderrego1998 Or he could just open up a secure channel.
@@alexanderrego1998 He could easily go to europa too
I think one of favourite quotes from Osiris that implicates him is from Presage when Caiatl asks if he saw something different. He replies with the ignorance of his youth, unproven faith wilted by logic.
If we are rigjt in assumimg about Savathun being Osiris, then it sounds as though she regrets the deal made with the worm gods
Wow that is a very good point
good insight
Which at the time it felt like it made sense for Osiris because it could have been related to his early days as a Lightbearer.
@@Techhunter_Talon but now it makes more sense because all 3 hive sisters, Oryx, Xivu Arath and Savathun regreted this deed with the worm gods, and now the hive are slaves, and maybe in the future Savathun will use the guardians to kill the worm gods like she controlled the path against Quria
also as a guardian, he wouldn't remember his "youth"
Byf: _Holds on to Data Motes for longer than necessary_
Me, Channeling my inner Drifter: *BANK THOSE MOTES!!!*
Bank tose motes BROTHER
Lol
My inner Dredgen was screeching at him lol
You mean when he actually bothers to pick them up?
Watching him play can be a bit aggravating. 'There are motes RIGHT THERE, just pick them up! Phew, he finally picked up some motes, WHY ISN'T HE BANKING THEM!?'
I hope I never play gambit with him.
Also Byf: banks 7 motes instead of 10
Notice in the Hawkmoon lore that when the writer says the word Sword, the is 'S' capitalized. Only the Hive would possess that sacred revere for the word 'sword'.
Nice catch. I hadnt even noticed It before
I wondered why it was capitalized. That makes sense
It also mentions "I am reminded of my sisters". Seems like a far fetch, but hey, which "sisters" are most destiny players familiar with?
@@rad.yall27 Nah I think you're spot on. Definitely Savathun's perspective in this lore tab.
I get a weird feeling she's trying to convince us she's learning what genuine goodness is and that she wants the light more than the darkness now. I get a weirder feeling that her showing us this through the lore tabs is her deceiving us, the players, rather than her being genuine.
I think your right bungie mentioned last year she was setting up dominos to knock them all over in witch queen and something about the way the taken mind died still doesn't sit right with me.
That is certainly a possibility. Then again, her domain is also Trickery, and maybe she's trying to leverage that against her siblings to gain more power -- she did do something similar to gain power in the Books of Sorrow, after all (but those are full of lies, according to Savathun's own claim... dealing with Savathun in any measure is always full of contradictions and more questions than answers). Not to mention, in the Grimoire entries relating to her from the Pit of Heresy, there was mention of her seeking to make herself "a third constant in the game besides Light and Darkness", so maybe she's trying to achieve that by leveraging both the Darkness _and_ the Light.
I get the impression that savathun is attempting to prepare the ultimate deception (a deception of the worm and the darkness itself (most likely attempting something similar to oryx when they fought there worm and gained the power to take) I get the impression that that they are trying to move beyond the worm (I think there plan isn't against or for the traveler but to use its power as a tool to subvert the worm(subvert the darkness and place itself above the darkness and by proxy above the light (potentially they are even planning on using osrisis ghost to to this through potentially targeting the worm with there light and making themselves into a true guardian and not faking the appearance of one subverting the traveler deceiving everyone who thought they were the enemy and even deceiving there worm with this 4d chess move
@@BerenElendilAPGaming I think we (our character) may have shown her a new path potentially when we took the power of stasis for ourself. It showed her that it is possible for a being to wield the power of light and dark without suffering any negative effects. As a result she is now trying to learn about the true nature of the light, just as she learned the true nature of the dark, and once doing so she will add that power to her own and use it to counteract the negative effects of her worm. After all the worm threatens to kill her if she does not feed it, but why fear death when you are able to resurrect yourself from nothing.
@@dragonroots yeah I am thinking something similar (a deception of the worm by becoming a guardian through the power of light subverting the darkness (I get the idea that if this idea is the way there going the enemy of the which queen may not be savathun and may actually be Eris morn)
I mean, at the beginning of the "Expunge : Tartarus corrupted" mission, Osiris says to us : "I managed to underestimate you. I won't make that mistake again". The Osiris that saw us do what he could not when we saved Saint-14, he knows more than anyone that we are THE Guardian that can do the impossible, so him saying that ? And that just one example out of many.
Hell we did what he couldn't and assumed impossible in finding and bringing Saint back.
I can’t remember the exact lines but he says a ton of suspect shit in expunge in general
@@Rnjesus386 example?
@@LowLifeAM he does sound fascinated by the vex network and says that it reminds him of the ascendant plains. Weird from a man who spent decades if not hundreds of year inside the vex network and dedicated his life to studying the Vex
@@CorpseSWE could have seen an ascendant plane and the discovered how the vex network is
Also based on lore Savathûn isn't stupid and she would not be discovered normally
It is an incredibly risky move to become Osiris without knowing him and giving clues that he is, in fact, the Witch Queen
You know what would be an interesting twist? If Osiris AND Sagira were being held captive by Savathun for information and the events where Sagira died off screen were fabricated to get him into the city and out of the field without arousing suspicion.
That is also my theory yes
And the second twist is that both Lima and Stockholm Syndromes kicked in, and Osiris and Sagira aren't actually imprisioned anymore, just hanging out with Savathun in the Ascendant Realm
I believe this to be the case. Ever since the "death" of sagira, the fact that we never saw her die kept bugging me. There's more to this.
The leaks that have been true up until now say that next season if we help Savathun get rid of her worm she'll give Osiris back.
Also keep in mind that there was originally a concept and plan for having Rasputin with an Exo body on the Dreadnought. However Ana is still in the process of building that Exo body and entire situation with Osiris is sus. I believe that Osiris and possibly Sagira are being held captive instead.
The only thing that gives me pause about Osiris is his interaction with Eva and Crows cloak
Oh yeah, but I think people are suspecting that it's an all or nothing sort of thing.
I don't think Osiris was completely under control until he took the Crown.
Maybe it’s an evil cloak?
@@Hdkmx Made by a not-evil person?
@@ncpolley human minds are easy to manipulate. Especially by a god of deceit
@@ncpolley The city was singing her song so it’s not out of the realm of possibility that both Eva and Osiris were corrupted in some fashion
Also during one of the expunge missions Ikora says "you're always plotting" and Osiris is like, visibly sweating
During Override, you mean. In Expunge Tartarus, he's says, to the Guardian: "Even after all you have achieved, I still managed to underestimate you. I won't make that mistake again". I'm there like "Oh, is that a threat, Mr Osiris?"
@@GardEngebretsen whoops, yeah you're right.
I really want to know what Lysander was referring to when he called Osiris a failed golden age experiment that was resurrected by mistake. What was that all about?
It was a baseless claim
Lysander was slandering Osiris for the sake of it.
edit: he was ly-slandering osiris
@@Ediblebomb I don't believe it to be entirely baseless. Osiris has always been a compelling figure to others, just look at the circumstances surrounding his departure from the Last City in the first place.
People flocked to Osiris's teachings as Prophecy, undermining the authority of the City Leadership.
Osiris as a figure has always been a little off, he seems distant and removed from events. He's unpredictable, and as we've seen from these past seasons he's now unreliable and untrustworthy.
We know next to nothing about the Concordat and their core tenets, but maybe Lysander's words about Osiris are worth taking a second look at now
@@LoreChaplain True it doesnt help that he himself keeps a lot of secrets. Be it secretly meeting with others or spying on guardians. There have always been reasons to call Osiris into question.
I don't know when that line came up in the lore, but there is a chance that when it was writen, Osiris was meant to have been an Exo. Him being decidedly human in current cannon probably means the claim was just baseless filth, possibly playing on people's view of Osiris as a nearly mythical being to try and lend it credence which niether the claim or the view actually possess.
Something I would like to bring up is that the last entry in Beneath the Endless Night potentially has Savathûn in it. Mithrax watches Amanda Holiday bump into a woman dressed in white. At first Amanda looks horrified, but immediately she calms down and the two share a laugh.
You're right! That seems eerily similar to the last lore entry mentioned in this video. Whilst this is clearly a different instance, since it was Amanda here and a man in the other lore entry, it could suggest that whoever Savathun is impersonating is in fact a woman - if indeed it is a woman mentioned in the last entry you've referred to, and its not unspecified? As others have said, Savathun's worm thrives on her deception, and whilst everything appears to be pointing towards Osiris being the imposter (especially his voice lines throughout this season and the final cutscene), it would certainly be in character for Savathun to have deceived us into thinking Osiris is the imposter.
All that said, I am still inclined to believe Osiris is Savathun in disguise. But its fun to consider other possibilities like this!
@@MrJakeasaur98 I think Osiris is actually under her influence. He's like a puppet, she uses him to carry out her dirty work and to harbor all the suspicion.
I interpreted that as amanda approaching someone she thinks is crow, and then realizing she has the wrong person
@@kjellvandam5598 Yeah, pretty much. She wasn't horrified, she was just surprised. Because she saw this person in white from behind, assumed it was Crow, went to say hi, and it wasn't him. That's all.
@@kjellvandam5598 that was my original interpretation too, but I liked this suggestion as a possibility
I knew he was when he said “I underestimated you. I won’t do so again”
I was hoping someone would notice that. Out of everything he said that is the one comment that Osiris spoke that just stuck with me. The way he said it just bothers me and it still does. It kind of felt like it was....personal.
Yeah I was pretty sure all season, but when he literally just looked over the vex incursion while dozens of eliksni ran for shelter and it seemed like Mithrax and Saint would be overrun, I was definitely certain.
The biggest sign that Osiris is Savathun was when Ikroa asked him: “plotting again I see?” He responded with: “pardon?”. As if he was caught off guard.
He definitely wouldn't just stand there, even lightless, and watch the man he loves get overrun while trying to protect others. He just wouldn't. Especially an Eliksni house that he'd been TRYING to convince Saint to talk to and see that not all are the monsters he thinks they are.
Also the fact he storms off when the reinforcements arrive, like he's dissapointed
I would like to propose the name "Faux-siris" to be used whenever talking about this fake/controlled Osiris 😂😁
Osusris.
@@retaliation032 Susiris
Maybe even falsiris?
Sussysiris.
@@serapheternal921 no
Judging by the Hawkmoon and retrofuturist lore entries, it seems that whatever forbidden truth, whatever “true enemy” Savathun knows of may be revealed in Witch Queen.
I...honestly havent thought about It that way before. I just assumed she meant herself, but the idea that there might be something more powerful Than the Darkness (we already know the Darkness is dangerous, theres not much more truth to survive) would be spine chilling.
@@gabrielpineirogarcia2078 It could be related to the Traveler and it not being so benevolent. For example intentionally building up societies for an eventual harvest by the Darkness. Basically a Mass Effect like twist. That would be a harsh truth.
@@fubu7942 agreed. Although remember What Mithrax taught Eido.
"Guardians were Chosen by the Traveller. They are cuthroat and merciless."
'But why would the Great machine gift them that? Wouldnt mercy be preferable?'
"Perhaps the Great machine *needs* mercilessness for the times to come.
Also, Mithrax defined us as 'weapons' (from the respect though).
I believe the Traveller created guardians as a personal protection against the Darkness, and humanity's survival is a side effect she did not intend but rather winged It.
Which also explains why during the Red war she didnt do absolute nothing to prevent getting the chastity belt strapped on. Only after Ghaul started taking the light for himself did she react.
Darkness or Light?
Which one is the enemy?
I think Savathun might end up putting a army of hive-guardians together.
The true enemy are the Worm gods
"revival is a choice" is kinda scary in the hands of savathun. For each "choice" is an action or plan she can go through and survive the consequence without being a slave to her worm.
My interpretation is that it's the Ghost's choice to resurrect their Guardian, and that she's realizing that if she could convince the Ghosts to stop resurrecting, then she wouldn't need to strip us of our Light to kill us permanently.
@@TheFlyingslug imagine in the case savathun kills us and convinces our ghost not to bring us back that the darkness just revives us purely just to spite savathun
@@lordexohunter558 that sounds amazing. I read some rumor about a leak somewhere that there might be a mission where you can’t use your light, only darkness.
@@BrutalSkorpio what about F2P guys?🤔
It makes me think of one of the dialogue exchanges at the end of override:
Mithrax:"the witch queen is dangerous, but she is no match for the great machine"
Osusris: "you're right splicer. The light is the key to victory"
It seems like savathuns plan is to use the traveler/light/ghosts against the guardians. Could possibly have something to do with one of the timelines Lakshmi saw that mentioned "mutated ghosts"
I'm so glad that the Hawkmoon lore tab is finally getting mentioned in relation to Savathun being Osiris, I've been saying it's the most damning piece of evidence since people started really talking about Osiris possibly being Savathun.
Something you didn't mention in the hawkmoon lore tab, the word 'sword' is always capitalized, even in the middle of a sentence. This makes sense for any member of the hive, especially one of the original three, as the very idea of the 'sword' is somewhat sacred to the hive.
Funnily enough, as a German, I wouldnt have noticed myself, as in German, every noun is capitalised. ^^
Something tells me that Savathun's possession of Osiris is a double-edged sword. It's true that she has the perfect disguise for recon inside of The Last City but by doing so in a human body she's being exposed to the nuances of human emotion and doesn't know what to do with them. Hence the constant repeats of "What is this feeling?".
6:40 "He was alive until he was murdered"
hmm, yes, this floor here is made of floor
I mean guardians can be murdered and still be alive
Every time byf says “and it reads as follows” I’m hit with an ad and I just found that a bit funny
Byf: "…listen to this:"
Ad: *YOU'RE NOT A DISH, YOU'RE A MAN!*
2:42 "It reads as follows.... Hi my name is Richard Brandson and I have a once in a lifetime opportunity for you..."
I have had a thought about Osiris' intentions. I think he is playing 4d Chess here with Savathun. I bet they have known each other since the Infinite Forest and are working on killing her worm but also doing it in the way where they can set it up to work. I also kind of want Osiris to stay around since he is a fun questionable Ally.
Id love for this to be the case, itd be a lot more interesting honestly. The only thing that would have to be explained is Sagira, they _could_ reveal that shes still alive but just been hiding and not using her powers to help Osiris sell him being lightless, but otherwise why would he willingly work with Savathun? As it stands she is the reason Sagira died
I highly doubt this tbh but who knows.
I have a fun theory that Osiris has been getting in Savathun's way which will lead to his death but before that Osiris is setting up the pieces before he dies and this chess game will be between Ikora and savathun.
I like to think that Osiris really did help Lakshmi because that battle helped unify the humans and Eliksni like nothing else would. But it's also part of Savathûn's plan because now he looks like the bad guy, because we know someone is corrupted. We just don't know who. Which is an intentional info leak on the her part to make us paranoid.
Or I'm just completely wrong. Both are viable options.
You guys tend to forget he no longer predicts the Future. He could mostly get info from the simulations of the Infinite forest. But now that hes severed from It thats not the case.
Also, Remember Savathun is paracausal. The Vex cannot predict Savathun, so even if Osiris could access to predictions, they would not help him against Savy.
"I walk though the City on broken legs"... Didn't Crow get both his legs broken? I swear it was mentioned in the Coup De Grace mission?
Dude......holy shit......ACCURATE.
What if Savathun is possessing osiris currently, but was previously possessing crow and jumped into osiris' body after crow was gifted the cloak?
Excellent observation, but almost certainly irrelevant. Even discounting the fact that his ghost would have just healed his legs anyway, it's been months between Coup de Grace and this lore entry, and we've seen Crow in the HELM and the field several times. His legs are just fine.
@@Karkesis I swear the broken legs dialog was added after the Season of the Hunt. Maybe not but something to think about. Maybe Savathunn can control more that one being at a time?
@@DevonHumpert I mean you said it yourself, it was in Coup de Grace. That was the finale of the Season of the Hunt. The dialogue was always there, they wouldn’t change something like that for a mission we only canonically do once.
I hope that Osiris and Sagira are just trapped in some ascendant plane and that Savathun is just "imitating" Osiris's form right now. It doesn't seem likely but one can hope XD
And imagine if both Lima and Stockholm Syndromes kicked in, and Osiris and Sagira aren't actually imprisioned anymore, just hanging out with Savathun in the Ascendant Realm lol
@@victorabaderamos6019 That would actually be really interesting
I’m hoping that’s the case because I want Osiris to live because I find him to be a real interesting character even though, at present, most of the mystery surrounding him in D1 has been explained. Also, I just want a fucking character that fills the role of Arbiter for the Guardian (i.e., the player) because our Ghost is Cortana, Cayde was Sgt. Johnson, and there’s just one last void to fill.
The first time I read the Hawkmoon tab I imagined Savathun in a bush, watching Crow and me around a campfire. It makes a lot more sense to have her in disguise as a third camper
My hope is that Osiris, in his time spent searching an infinite number of timelines and simulations to see how many ends of all life came to be, that he is orchestrating all of this and allowing Savathûn access in order to draw out the Queen of Lies and expose the truth.
6:39 'the osmium king was alive until he was murdered'
Ah yes, every sixty seconds in Africa, a minute passes
I didn't even know the Osmium King could die. Until he did
I need to find a playlist or video based entirely on the *sus* things Osiris has said through the year.
There isn’t one. Make one yourself. It’s not hard if you do some digging
someone made a video compiling all the suspect ingame dialogue. th-cam.com/video/tdI6z1Kpyf8/w-d-xo.html
Paul tassi has the osiris watch.
@@vorpalweapon4814 thanks.
You can watch the video Myelin made about it. He's one of the main Destiny lore experts with Byf.
th-cam.com/video/3_0UGrwup9A/w-d-xo.html
Something pretty subtle that everyone has missed was Lakshmi and Hideo’s conversation with Saint and how Saint’s righteousness made Hideo sick, and how it made his stomach twist. If Savathun’s whole thing is how she’s a deceitful and cunning liar, something like that would make her sick.
Yeah the Tartarus beginning dialogue is what sold it for me
“Here you stand, the embodiment of the impossible, I will not make that mistake again”
Byf: Is Osiris Corrupted by Savathun?
Savathun: always has been...
"Fingertips on the surface of my mind..." - Eris Morn, Sensing Oryx for the First time
I still think Osiris is being controlled by Toland, and Savathun is someone else (my money is on Eva Levante- #Grandmathun)
Damn right.
Solar Flair fan?
Why is it Toland?
@@mobslayer211 because he wants power
Savathun is Fenchurch confirmed lmao
The hawkmoon lore tab is my favorite lore tab of any exotic besides maybe lucky pants
Gives our gaurdian character beyond God killing and crucible. Like how our guardian encourages crow to get drunk. It's "cute" for lack of a better word, but scary to know that the which queen was among them
"This form affords me some dignities" makes sense for Osiris, because it would be weird and out of character for Osiris to get hyped up and cheer at a crucible match
Only Osiris can be considered "normal" behaving that way for any events.
There is a line from the season of the chosen where Osiris tells Crow he has to keep the mask on and that he understands what the feeling is, since he has walked these streets under disguise more times than he knows.
It's so obvious that Osiris is being controlled that I don't want to believe it.
It's hard to choose the obvious choice when Savathun is connected as she lies to easily.
I believe she has grown tired of feeding her worm and wants to become a welder of light.
We are missing a big part of the picture though.
Something isn't adding up and it's not just the Osiris thing.
I bet Savathun is trying to make Osiris suspicious so she can sneak by undetected
"I cover my face once more."
Now who in the City keeps a scarf around their face most of the time?
I wonder when this possession started, and if it coincides with Sagira’s death. Being lightless would certainly make it easier to corrupt Osiris. Perhaps Sagira was targeted as a result.
It likely was. He said something suspicious as early as the mission to kill the celebrant, when talking about how Xivu Arath is pushing into the dreaming city in the same place Savathun first entered, and he says "Has she no ambition of her own?" in a really derisive way that's out of character for Osiris but would make a lot of sense for Savathun
this even holds true if it isnt posession or corruption, but a disguise, since a lightless guardian is MUCH easier to imitate than one at their full paracausal strength
It would make a lot of sense, considering that she died fighting not only the high celebrant but also the higher ups of the scarlet swarm/ new moon hive and crotas descendants, who I think have also been influenced by savathun in the past
@@dumbsterdives yeah it was like "wow sis, you're really just gonna copy me like that?"
Every time I feel a little bored or fed up with Destiny2 I look at one of your lore videos and end up filled with interest and optimism again. Thanks for your amazing work Byf.
I want Savathun to be a “necessary evil” sort of character and that the Witch Queen’s enemy are the hive gods that she’s grown tired of feeding.
Imagine having Savathun as a fucking vendor? That shit would be awesome and terrifying at the same time
I really think that could be the case. Think of how powerful both Savathun and Oryx are, but at the end of the day they're both just slaves to their worm gods.
I always knew the Hawkmoon lore tab was savathun watching them, but at the time didn't know, nor think, it was was through Osiris
It clarifies so much
I think Sav picking Osiris is a good choice, he’s the only Guardian that’s close to the vanguard and us that doesn’t have a Ghost since she wouldn’t be able to have one
I am thrilled when new content is released for the next plot point. New items. Hunt collectibles and exotics for their story. Story is what I love in this game. Nothing excites me more. And I don’t think any single lore tab passes by me. So I know almost all of it. But I still come here to hear what you’ve got. Why? Cause you just do an awesome job of connecting the dots. You do an awesome job of narrating. The content is fantastic, and helps keep my story appetite satiated. Thanks Lore Daddy!
I’m loving the anti-clickbait title, ever since that veritasium video, it’s cool to see how thumbnails and titles work, I love what you did with the title and thumbnail Byf!
I think he likes the titles and thumbnails guys
@@ajoconnor64 Idk. Are you sure? Im not convinced yet.
Bro…are you talking about the Veritasium video from literally yesterday???🤦🏾♂️
@@brandonperry2253 I find the host super creepy
@@Banana-Boi I, too, am not convinced in OP’s obsession with thumbnails and titles considering he admitted it after a video that came out yesterday as Brandon Perry pointed out.
Byf: his interactions with his lover-
Saint-14: YESS! FINALLY, SOMEONE ACKNOWLEDGES IT!
Bruh I didn't even know that...kinda wished I didnt now...
@@theSixPathsOfTrains Byf put that in there all sly and shit, but I saw it clear as day lol.
I've only just found out this is a thing and it's made my Saturday morning! 👏
*1:04*
You know I just realized that Osiris hasn’t taken his mask off the whole time he’s been back. If that lore card is to be believed it sounds like savathun is making him cover his face to hide the horrid hive magic. I get the distinct feeling we’re gonna have a horror realization involving him having his mask removed.
What convinced me in particular that something was up with Osiris was when he told Ikora to "Cauterize all contact with the Darkness, lest you risk infestation." To me, that coming from Osiris is rich considering he was at one point the Warlock Vanguard who very much played around with dangerous forces relating to the Darkness (and still does). However, there was a figure trying their damnedest to stop us from communing with the Darkness on Io in Season of Arrivals: Savathun. It could very well be a small characterization error on Bungie's part, but being wary of the Darkness is far more a Savathun trait than an Osiris one.
Prett sure that whole “the body is barely being held together, almost tearing itself form the seams” line pretty much means Osiris is dead
Let it be known, even savathun hates shotgun apes
I doubt Osiris is dead, they've gotten his voice actor for a lot of lines and seem to have no difficulty getting him back for every season. Hate to be meta but Bungie only tend to kill off someone when the voice work becomes an issue. So I think real Osiris is alive, maybe captured.
I think the final page of the endless night book hints at his possible return too, it ends with mithrax telling Saint 14 to "find your lost phoenix". For Saint to go on a search like that (possibly another crusade, but this time against hive instead of fallen) and not find Osiris would be kind of a waste
Watching this after the reveal today and the “I know what to do” line makes a lot more sense now after seeing the Hive Guardians
I think the "Choked by rancid ambrosia" line refers to her being near the Traveler and surrounded by light, since thats what keeps our guardians alive, but to her she thinks it's painful or rancid.
Oh no Savathun also Corruted the title in the thumbnail.
Idk why but i want savathon to be like Robbie from LazyTown. The episode where they invite him over to a bday party and he comes in all dressed up not knowing anything about birthday parties. I want her to be the awkward Robbie in that episode in this story, if she does join us 😅 or prince zuko now that I think about it. When he was desperately trying to join the gang.
I feel that Savathun doesn't want her worm anymore. She talk about the "Rancid Ambrosia" I feel that she is talking about the life sustaining powers the worm offers. She also talks about the everlasting hunger the worm has.
I feel that Savathun is preparing us (the guardian) to kill her so that she can get rid of her worm. And then later resurrects herself and becomes a proto-hive. And possibly become an ally. like Mithrax wanted.
I mean, we can *pretend* he's not the imposter...
As a chilling possibility, what if Osiris left because he ISN'T the corrupted one, but rather one of few who is FREE. Saint, us, Misraaks, and the rest... what if we're the ones tainted by Savathûn? If she's tapping us for her endgame (perhaps a semi-noble one, in that she seeks to DESTROY the Darkness itself, to excise the Worm from herself and her subjects). Osiris may have figured out that we're compromised (us, perhaps more than anyone else through the fact that we hold Xol as a gun within our own hands, AND have communed with the Dark itself). And he left because he knows that we're dancing with the devil in the pale moonlight. What if her shell wasn't Osiris, but someone else who's infected more? Perhaps this whole season, Savathûn was testing to see if we could forgive, could make peace with our monsters, as a prelude to her own form of integration. And Osiris knows that. He distances himself from everyone because he knows we're all being manipulated (for good or ill... time will tell), KNOWS that telling us anything will feed it to Savathûn herself. After all, what better cover for deceit than the trappings of nobility and goodness?
The "Beneath..." lore book offers another explanation: Executor Hideo. The entry read here refers to an onlooker seeing the speaker's teeth. I don't remember seeing Osiris' teeth. The very next entry in the book has Hideo becoming nauseous "again."
Taken by itself, sure, maybe. But when you take all the evidence into account, there’s no way at all it was Hideo. Unless you think he’d be hanging out at the Guardian’s and Crow’s celebration.
Man the hawkmoon lore tab really does make a lot of more sense from the "Osiris is Savathun" angle
vii ripe starts 'I walk through the city on broken legs..." and you're confident that = osiris?
Welp, coming back to this after today has been interesting
I really hope they don’t kill Osiris off, just think how heart broken Saint will be :(
I hope so too. Don't want Bungie to follow the "Bury your Gays" trope.
@@WraithReaper09 bruh I didnt even know they was. I kinda wished I didnt know now....now its just...distasteful
@@theSixPathsOfTrains It's been confirmed for months. And it's pretty obvious if you're paying attention (you don't break time for "just a friend") that they are together.
How is it "distasteful"? ... Let me guess .. You're homophobic? Well then ... Destiny isn't really a game for you then since it is rather Pro-LGBTQIA+ in it's characters.
@@WraithReaper09 I would for a friend. it's a matter of perspective on that one.
For the rest still rather been ignorant on that one. I guess this is one of those moments the wisdom "ignorance can be bliss" comes to fruition.
It's interesting how living among humanity it's taking its toll in the witch queen. She was not ready to feel. I wonder if this could make eventually a difference in her plan.
I need a follow up after today omg
SotL really makes this video way too fun to watch.
15 min video summed in 1 sentence: Osiris is the imposter.
I think the lore of "what is this feeling" makes it sound like savathunn is longing for it. I think she either will become an ally to fight the darkness or we will be working with her.
Right on time.
9:30 Slight correction: ambroisia is the food of the gods, nectar is the drink.
What if Sagira isn’t dead? What if she’s being held by Savathuun to keep her deception intact? I haven’t read too deep into lore books so if I’m grasping as imaginary straws please let me know
If we were to make a guess of when Osiris was corrupted I would have to say sometime before the season of the hunt. With Sagira killed off screen this could be a clever ruse since I think it would be difficult for Savathun to simulate a ghost. Now the Hive that attacked Osiris in the cut seen where Crow saves him is a hive controlled by Sevu Arath. So it still fits the narrative.
Osiris still must be alive and possibly so is Sagira. The hint that he is relies in the perfect paradox. At some point Sait-14 leaves to the Endless Forest to find Osiris. So that the perfect paradox can be found by us once again. So I believe this Osiris is just a disguise and nothing more. And will probably be discarded once it is no longer needed. Mercury will return and so will the hope that Osiris is still within. Meaning that Osiris form was taken by Savathun before the darkness came to claim Mercury. At least that is what I believe.
That Hawkmoon lore tab has all new context…..
Curious
It could be foreshadowing that Savathun may switch sides and become a reluctant anti-hero. Or it could be another lie to deceive us, at this point, it’s hard to tell. It would be quite a twist though.
@@garrettviewegh677 one way or the other I think it’s safe to expect some form of twist in Witch Queen…..I mean after all it is Sava Thun 😐
@@lukefurno1151 i think we miss something. She just has spread some lies around before to get Imbaru... But like, THIS endless night was her best source of Imbaru so far, she didnt have any more need to create other Imbaru sources, and she already knew Imbaru was failing her (the worm dont care and wants more despite What she has given It). I dont think she is purposedly lying to us, but rather hiding Coded messages for us in the form of stories or metaphors. (That before Season of the Hunt, where she would be too busy making sure not to get her cover blown to scatter more imbaru Lore texts)
It's very interesting that the first ever line Osiris speaks in all of destiny is "every end crawls from the same pit" talking about the hellmouth at the start of the shrine of oryx mission from vanilla d1. In the dark future, eris, who crawled out of the hellmouth after escaping crota, was the one who fell to darkness and helped destroy the city. In our timeline, "Osiris" crawled out of the hellmouth after losing sagira
90% of the comment section:
Wait they were lovers?!
I heard that but I chose to overlook it lol xD
My suspicions of osiris spiked from his dialogue in expunge where he says he underestimated us and that he wouldn't do it again.
I think she captured osiris and sagira. I'm sure she just shapeshifted into osiris because she is a trickster. Kinda reminds me of loki. Either way tho I feel like in the next expansion we will try to rescue osiris
I think Osiris is dead and has been for a long time. Its very hopeful to think she captured then. But hopefully lol
Something is definitely going on with Osiris and it definitely has to do with Savathun. But I've had some people bring up a valid point to me that it would be too obvious for Savathun to be under the guise of Osiris. Perhaps Osiris is being either puppeted or blackmailed into drawing suspicion so that Savathun's real guise isn't uncovered until it's too late.
Also, wait, Saint 14 and Osiris are lovers? How is this news?
Fr??
he ships them
@@victorbressler7156 No. It's... quite literally canon.
@@comradethegreat3599 where?
Bungie released a statement about a year ago or so revealing Osiris & Saint 14 are in fact homosexual and were a couple for a long time. But ever since this season, it's obvious that might be possible that it'll end. But also if you visit Saint 14 you'll hear "My little firey phoenix" which is a nod to Osiris.
Byf, the Hawkmoon lore was extremely interesting to me because it talks about Us (The Guardian) interacting with another character through the eyes of a 3rd person. I feel this type of lore is lacking and there isn't enough for us to piece together exactly how are percieved, our temperament/disposition, and how we fit into this universe. Of course, I'm positive this is on purpose, but I'd really really like you compile what we have and to do a video on Us (The Guardian, Young Wolf, etc.). I know I'm not alone.
(Edit for grammar)
If savathun is having feelings, and growing accustomed to human kindness and company, maybe she will not be entirely evil, or a one dimensional villain, interesting to say the least
It's clear that while she is a servant of the Darkness, Savathun does not love the darkness. I think over the millennia she has grown to resent the constant demands of the Worm.
In addition, it seems the Darkness has no special love for the Hive. The Darkness has been courting us Guardians, offering us power to use AGAINST the Hive. This makes sense since the Darkness is a primordial force and has no real loyalty to any particular beings.
But wouldn't it be interesting if, because she resents the Darkness and now she sees the Darkness betraying the Hive to help the Guardians, Savathun is actually manuvering to betray and destroy the Darkness? Maybe we will end up working together with her, against all expectations.. completing our collection of 'enemy' allies.
It should also be mentioned that it was pointed out that The Darkness intends to punish Savathun for her interference with their communication with us. What that "punishment" is and how they intend to execute it is still unknown.
So, TLDR; we accidentally befriended a Hive God?
Osiris has become a simp for the twitch queen
as much as it pains me to say it, it appears that osiris may be the sus impostor
Yuckers “his lover”. In my head cannon it’s still brotherly like it was before that one dev randomly said nah they together.
Edit: not in a homophobic sense. In the sense that to me they had a brotherly bond it it feels incesty. Since they called each other brother numerous times and the speaker was a father to both of them. And In the comic that dropped around curse of Osiris saint was sent to fight Osiris and they talked as brothers not lovers. So yeah that’s my reasoning
Yep.
I think after Mithraax tells Saint to find his lost phoenix, defa not just a dev saying it bro.
@@idiotwithanopinion8082 idk I feel like it wasn’t always meant to be that way though. Plus it’s lame af that Osiris risked the fabric of reality for a dick appointment 😂 a comrade in arms is not as lame as dick
5:30 Savathun is hooked on a feeling
I've had a hard time trusting him since that time he brought back the giant vex we killed for him in Curse of Osiris. "This thing almost killed us the first time around so I brought it back again lol"
I think that this is started way back during season of the hunt, before we reached him in the shrine of oryx something happened to him that allowed savathun to either become osiris or puppeteer him
Since I got a Go Daddy ad underneath this video I have concluded that Byf must team up with them to do a Go Lore Daddy promo. Make it happen
Theres a lore tab, dont remember which, where osiris (savathun) bumps into saint 14 while looking for the device that cut off zavalas light. Imagine savathun with that technology
dunno why, I’ve read all of these lore cards but as you read them, for the first time I heard them in Osiris’ voice and it was pretty chilling.
The Hawkmoon lore tab is just Savathun feeling sad for the first time ever lol
Savathun really said "Thanks to you, I am saddled with unnecessary... feelings"
Should not ignore that she is clearly starting to crave companion ship. She is learning to appreciate and even enjoy socializing with people which is why shes rushing now. If she actually cares her deception becomes truth and she is losing the ability to feed her worm.
This aged very well. nice job.
Spoiler Alert:
Do not read if you don’t want to know about ANY content regarding the upcoming “Witchqueen” expansion. *You have been warned.*
Theory: Sagira isn’t actually dead. Savathun stowed her away, and likely studied her to develop her own versions of Ghosts.
Think about it.
We were better acquainted with Sagira than we were with Sundance (if you had to think about who that was for more than a second that just further proves my point).
After all that time that Sagira shared the shell of our Ghost, it seems a bit odd that she would get killed off so unceremoniously. Especially compared to Sundance (who was Cayde-6’s Ghost for anyone who didn’t figure that out already).
Or, if she really is dead, in which case Osiris likely is too, I still have my suspicions that Savathun based her “Ghosts” off of Sagira’s design. And at the very least, I think we can expect to catch a glimpse or a mention of her in the Witchqueen expansion.
Finding out that Savathun was riding Osiris makes the line that Osiris says about Xivu Arath invading in the same spot as savathun did super funny. It was something like "Xivu Arath punches through in the spot as Savathun first did. Does she have no ambition?"
I think Osiris is still down there somewhere, and so both his consciousness and even his biology is producing emotions that savathun has never been able to feel before. it's basically a lich if it was masquerading as a cleric or knight
That last part of the retrofuturist lore made me go "WAIT A MINUTE-" after watching the witch queen trailer.
I am just over here hoping we get the Touch of Malice, Red Death, or other Taken King esque weapons/armor