According to US patent US3369861A ("Method for producing ammonium chromate") it seems like some of the Ammonia has been oxidized to N2 and maybe even some N2O. This seems to become more likely, the larger the excess of NH3 is. The sweetspot for avoiding this side reaction seems to be between 7% and 15% NH3 content in solution. Take that with a grain of salt, because I merely skipped over the document.
The oxydation of ammonia or ammonium ions is the only plausible explaination. Copper(II) is already in its highest oxydation level and potassium and sulphate ions don't participate in redox-reactions here.
3:46 At first I actually asked myself "why did he put a moldy slice of lemon on the top right of this watch glass? 😳". Until I finally realized it wasn't a slice of lemon. 🤣🤣🤣 As always, great video. 👍👍👍👍👍👍
ha! Yeah it definitely looked pretty funky at that point. Happy to hear you liked the video! Held off on this one for a while because its something of a return to the more niche inorganic stuff people really didn't seem to be into on here
Thanks! And yeah I actually planned to have pyridine out a while ago but my first attempt I accidentally tried to decarb niacinamide instead of niacin.. Needless to say it was a bad time.
Huh, what's the common method? I'm honestly not super familiar with the process, I just tried the first thing I saw on sciencemadness and seemed like copper chromite was preferred
@integral_chemistry might have been I didn't mix well enough or have enough copper chromite when I did it. I made a video I think 🤔 can't even remember. Was one of the last preps I did
I've technically got one, but then I always run into the issue of having a thick pellet stuck to the bottom.. usually get annoyed with how much product I lose scooping it out
@@integral_chemistry There is another advantage to using a centrifuge: you can easily decant the supernatant and replace it with fresh solvent, shake or disperse with ultrasonics, and re-spin as necessary to extract soluble contaminants from the precipitate. You can also use a modest amount of solvent to help loosen the pellet when scooping it out. This greatly facilitates a subsequent vacuum filtration. Two (or 4) large, capped centrifuge tubes in a bucket rotor work much better than multiple small tubes.
LMAO yeah a while back I put labels like that on all my more dangerous chemicals in the remote chance something ever happened to me, whoever had to clean up my mess would know which bottles are dangerous enough to hand over to professional disposal. Read too many horror stories of 80 year old home chemists who passed away and their families had to deal with unlabeled jars of picric acid and such 💀
@@integral_chemistry I designed my label layout and put an old European-style hazard label on it (Deprecated/The orange one) which mostly serves aesthetic purposes only. I think if something ever happened to me, my family better look for a professional to clean all things up, since ethanol, dichromate and bromine doesn't seem to be much different in their eyes. Just remember to label everything though, that's the only good practice we need!
I‘d want to use a membrane pump for moving it through the filter as such a pump can be cleaned with a liquid thereafter. Great recording of the reaction!
Copper sulfate in those containers contain very small amounts of metallic copper. Maybe that was why some of the chromate was reduced? Ammonia with copper catalyst could also be the culprit, though I have no evidence of that.
I'm definitely leaning ammonia with copper catalyst as the culprit. I didn't see any copper metal and I seriously doubt sulfate got reduced. Weird thing though I feel if ammonium was reduced we'd see some bubbles of nitrogen gas, but I didn't see that either. Definitely a weird one.
Very cool, could this be used to catalyze phenol from salicylic acid? I know this reaction happens with just heat but it is quite messy with poor yields.
Yeah it could absolutely be used for that, but honestly kinda overkill. Calcium oxide/hydroxide would probably be and adequate catalyst for that decarboxylation.. unless you REALLY want that carboxyl group gone lol
I thought basic copper carbonate readily catalyzes the decarx of niacin (i hvnt done it myself but nilered seems to have done it quite easily) Would wanna see you do hydrogenation with this stuff though. As a side tangent would pyrophoric nickel be an even better catalyst for hydrogenations? It is very easily prepared from nickel salts and oxalic acid.
Yeah I did actually try copper carbonate as a catalyst first and although it did work the yields were embarrassingly low (like below 50%). You are right though, Pyrophoric nickel would almost certainly be a better hydrogenation catalyst (and definitely what I plan to use when I get around to doing a hydrogenation). My thing now though is I really have no Idea how I would store pyrophoric nickel until I'm ready to use it. Ampules maybe but I doubt I'd be able to even seal them before it begins to decompose.
@@integral_chemistry Пирофорный никель - слабый катализатор. Декарбоксилироваие летучих карбоновых кислот можно проводить над нагретым NiO. Возможно, нечто подобное можно реализовать и с никотиновой кислотой. Правда, остаётся вопрос: зачем?
I reduced all the copper out with hydrosulfite and it left a fairly light solution that I was able to precipitate a very small amount of chromium hydroxide from. It was definitely a super crude determination, but I mostly wanted to figure out if it was mostly copper or chromium. Turns out it was primarily copper even though the color made me think it was chromium at first.
It can! I tried it on theanine to make a bit of ethylamine and alinine to make a bit of methylamine. Mostly for novelty though as there are definitely better ways to make both of those
As I'm on a fluorescence hyperfocus I would like to know if the pyridine will be used to make the fluorescent copper organic complexes? Also, you showed a clip of an upcoming video about fluorescent lanthanides salts few weeks ago, are you planning to post it soon?
Happy to hear it! I also finished up strontium aluimnate recently which is a luminescent compound. And yeah I was looking to put out another video before next Saturday since today's video isn't really that involved. I was thinking either the lanthanides or something with mercury amalgams, but since you're waiting on the lanthanide one (and I couldn't decide between the two) I'll go ahead and put that one out next!
@@integral_chemistry Yes, and I'd love to hear about some good methods of destroying hexavalent chromium, if you suspect you have it in your waste products!
I think it technically could form the double salt calcium ammonium nitrate, but not if the pH is too high. I did however make very impure nitric acid from calcium ammonium nitrate a few months ago by adding sulfuric acid and filtering off the calcium sulfate. I think this idea just replaces sulfuric acid with safer oxalic acid, but the product would still contain ammonium nitrate impurities
@@integral_chemistry my idea of adding extra calcium hydroxide is to prevent the breakdown of ammonium nitrate when distilling off the nitric. I noticed in nurdrage's video that a bit of NO2 was produced, probably because the ammonium nitrate started to decompose a bit.
I was able to use exactly 15g of this catalyst to convert an entire kilo of niacin to about 500mL of pyridine about 3-4yr ago. Great stuff!
According to US patent US3369861A ("Method for producing ammonium chromate") it seems like some of the Ammonia has been oxidized to N2 and maybe even some N2O. This seems to become more likely, the larger the excess of NH3 is. The sweetspot for avoiding this side reaction seems to be between 7% and 15% NH3 content in solution.
Take that with a grain of salt, because I merely skipped over the document.
The oxydation of ammonia or ammonium ions is the only plausible explaination. Copper(II) is already in its highest oxydation level and potassium and sulphate ions don't participate in redox-reactions here.
Narrator: says words I can barely understand with a college chemistry class under my hat.
Me: "cool colors! That's cool!"
Tbh thats me watching a video on microbiology
Beautiful chemistry. 👍
3:46 At first I actually asked myself "why did he put a moldy slice of lemon on the top right of this watch glass? 😳". Until I finally realized it wasn't a slice of lemon. 🤣🤣🤣
As always, great video. 👍👍👍👍👍👍
ha! Yeah it definitely looked pretty funky at that point. Happy to hear you liked the video! Held off on this one for a while because its something of a return to the more niche inorganic stuff people really didn't seem to be into on here
Great job and can't wait for the pyridine synth!
Thanks! And yeah I actually planned to have pyridine out a while ago but my first attempt I accidentally tried to decarb niacinamide instead of niacin.. Needless to say it was a bad time.
I remember this catalyst was quite fun to make but for me for making pyridine I found the more common method worked better
Huh, what's the common method? I'm honestly not super familiar with the process, I just tried the first thing I saw on sciencemadness and seemed like copper chromite was preferred
@@integral_chemistry basic copper carbonate
@integral_chemistry might have been I didn't mix well enough or have enough copper chromite when I did it. I made a video I think 🤔 can't even remember. Was one of the last preps I did
You need to get a centrifuge to pelletize those fine, heavy precipitates. It's much easier than vacuum filtration.
I've technically got one, but then I always run into the issue of having a thick pellet stuck to the bottom.. usually get annoyed with how much product I lose scooping it out
@@integral_chemistry There is another advantage to using a centrifuge: you can easily decant the supernatant and replace it with fresh solvent, shake or disperse with ultrasonics, and re-spin as necessary to extract soluble contaminants from the precipitate. You can also use a modest amount of solvent to help loosen the pellet when scooping it out. This greatly facilitates a subsequent vacuum filtration.
Two (or 4) large, capped centrifuge tubes in a bucket rotor work much better than multiple small tubes.
0:35 The 💀icon on the bottle, Lol
LMAO yeah a while back I put labels like that on all my more dangerous chemicals in the remote chance something ever happened to me, whoever had to clean up my mess would know which bottles are dangerous enough to hand over to professional disposal. Read too many horror stories of 80 year old home chemists who passed away and their families had to deal with unlabeled jars of picric acid and such 💀
@@integral_chemistry I designed my label layout and put an old European-style hazard label on it (Deprecated/The orange one) which mostly serves aesthetic purposes only. I think if something ever happened to me, my family better look for a professional to clean all things up, since ethanol, dichromate and bromine doesn't seem to be much different in their eyes.
Just remember to label everything though, that's the only good practice we need!
I‘d want to use a membrane pump for moving it through the filter as such a pump can be cleaned with a liquid thereafter.
Great recording of the reaction!
Beautiful stuff
Thanks, this was great! Learned something new!
Always happy to hear it 😁 definitely more of a niche chemical I feel
Copper sulfate in those containers contain very small amounts of metallic copper. Maybe that was why some of the chromate was reduced? Ammonia with copper catalyst could also be the culprit, though I have no evidence of that.
I'm definitely leaning ammonia with copper catalyst as the culprit. I didn't see any copper metal and I seriously doubt sulfate got reduced. Weird thing though I feel if ammonium was reduced we'd see some bubbles of nitrogen gas, but I didn't see that either.
Definitely a weird one.
cool
Отлично.👍
Wow
4:21 Chromium cuprate?
Looks more like a "chromyl cuprate"
It’s a good day when there’s a chromium upload 😃
Btw way tests were performed at 3:12 ?
Very cool, could this be used to catalyze phenol from salicylic acid? I know this reaction happens with just heat but it is quite messy with poor yields.
Yeah it could absolutely be used for that, but honestly kinda overkill. Calcium oxide/hydroxide would probably be and adequate catalyst for that decarboxylation.. unless you REALLY want that carboxyl group gone lol
I thought basic copper carbonate readily catalyzes the decarx of niacin (i hvnt done it myself but nilered seems to have done it quite easily)
Would wanna see you do hydrogenation with this stuff though. As a side tangent would pyrophoric nickel be an even better catalyst for hydrogenations? It is very easily prepared from nickel salts and oxalic acid.
The carbonate works but the chromite is much more efficient and you get considerably better yields.
Yeah I did actually try copper carbonate as a catalyst first and although it did work the yields were embarrassingly low (like below 50%). You are right though, Pyrophoric nickel would almost certainly be a better hydrogenation catalyst (and definitely what I plan to use when I get around to doing a hydrogenation). My thing now though is I really have no Idea how I would store pyrophoric nickel until I'm ready to use it. Ampules maybe but I doubt I'd be able to even seal them before it begins to decompose.
@@integral_chemistry Пирофорный никель - слабый катализатор. Декарбоксилироваие летучих карбоновых кислот можно проводить над нагретым NiO. Возможно, нечто подобное можно реализовать и с никотиновой кислотой. Правда, остаётся вопрос: зачем?
@@chemistryofquestionablequa6252 thy labs will have a video on hydrogenations. he has build a pretty awesome pressure hydrogenator
How can I send you a soxhlet extractor? lol. Very pretty reaction, great visuals.
How did you determine the composition of the green supernatant?
I reduced all the copper out with hydrosulfite and it left a fairly light solution that I was able to precipitate a very small amount of chromium hydroxide from. It was definitely a super crude determination, but I mostly wanted to figure out if it was mostly copper or chromium. Turns out it was primarily copper even though the color made me think it was chromium at first.
I wonder if this would work for decarboxylation of amino acids.... namely theanine.
It can! I tried it on theanine to make a bit of ethylamine and alinine to make a bit of methylamine. Mostly for novelty though as there are definitely better ways to make both of those
@@integral_chemistry So it also broke up the amide part... that's unfortunate. Thanks for the info.
As I'm on a fluorescence hyperfocus I would like to know if the pyridine will be used to make the fluorescent copper organic complexes? Also, you showed a clip of an upcoming video about fluorescent lanthanides salts few weeks ago, are you planning to post it soon?
Happy to hear it! I also finished up strontium aluimnate recently which is a luminescent compound. And yeah I was looking to put out another video before next Saturday since today's video isn't really that involved. I was thinking either the lanthanides or something with mercury amalgams, but since you're waiting on the lanthanide one (and I couldn't decide between the two) I'll go ahead and put that one out next!
@@integral_chemistry Yeassssssssss, thank you :)
Can it decarboxylate aminoacids?
Erin Brockovich
I think I referenced that case in my dichromate synth video to make the point you REALLY shouldn't put this stuff down the drain
@@integral_chemistry Yes, and I'd love to hear about some good methods of destroying hexavalent chromium, if you suspect you have it in your waste products!
Ammonium is a reducing agent
True, but I've never had ammonium reduce dichromate when making ammonium dichromate.. you think maybe the copper catalyzes the reduction?
You should attempt making nitric acid via Cold Packs, calcium hydroxide, and oxalic acid.
isn't this what nurdrage has been working on? When I first started chem that would have been great information!
Ammonium nitrate plus calcium hydroxide wouldn’t do anything together I don’t think. The calcium hydroxide would just sink.
I think it technically could form the double salt calcium ammonium nitrate, but not if the pH is too high. I did however make very impure nitric acid from calcium ammonium nitrate a few months ago by adding sulfuric acid and filtering off the calcium sulfate. I think this idea just replaces sulfuric acid with safer oxalic acid, but the product would still contain ammonium nitrate impurities
@@SetTheCurve there must be a way to push ammonia out to increase yield.
@@integral_chemistry my idea of adding extra calcium hydroxide is to prevent the breakdown of ammonium nitrate when distilling off the nitric. I noticed in nurdrage's video that a bit of NO2 was produced, probably because the ammonium nitrate started to decompose a bit.
Sarin gas as next video? (ill donate in pareon 😁)