Weeeell, that is of course one of the game mechanics - the better you are doing, the slower you get. In dominion there tend to be cards to mitigate this (things that let you discard cards to draw cards, among others), but I agree it can lead to some frustration. On the other hand, someone who is drawing dead hand after dead hand may not have much to do, but is probably getting close to winning as it is, so it does balance the game a bit! -Ken
One my favourite mechanics in TS is the extra card draws allowed by some cards in the dungeon. They allow you to go in underpowered and risk that the extra cards will provide what you need. Fun.
@devaloki The music here is actually by Paul Sullivan (my father), that song in particular is called "Silence". If you'd like, I could post some post some links for his music so you can download them. -Ken
I just got thunderstone advanced recently, and it kind of renewed my interest in the game, like, significantly!!! Haha! I agree it's good for some harder monsters to come up earlier on to give a little challenge, but I've played games where the biggest B-A's come up in the first draw of the dungeon, and everyone is paralyzed to the town for the first half of the game. The Advanced rules have ways of mitigating these now, which is all alright in my books!! -Ken
I have played Thunderstone several times on Facebook, now, and it is a good game - played in that format, since you can play solo. I don't know if it would hold the attention of my Spellfire (you heard that right) group, though, since there is virtually no interaction. A warfare based deckbuilding game would be more appealing, I think. Perhaps I will write another variant for Spellfire. My group actually had some of our house rules adopted as official Spellfire rules, back in the day.
I wholeheartedly agree that the later expansions are much better; however, this was a tutorial and review for the original game. If and when we do a tutorial for the expansions I imagine they'll get a much higher rating. It should also be noted that at the time that we filmed this, Dragonspire had only been out for a couple of months, and Thunderstone Advanced hadn't been announced yet.
Sometimes it is worth it to attack deeper in the dungeon, as light tends to be fairly easy to come by (depending on the spread). But over all, it is true, the deeper you go, the more dangerous it is, and sometimes for little more pay off. -Ken
Well, that's what we were reviewing actually, the first edition. Which I did buy. While I agree with you that the later base sets fix these issues (and Advance was quite wonderful! I acquired it not long after it came out), understand that we were reviewing the Thunderstone, base set, not the Thunderstone Series as a whole. The series as a whole is magnificent, but this is one review of the original set as a starting point. Hope that clarifies our perspective for you. - Ken
I bought Thunderstone and I think it's great. On the dungeon deck, sometimes it's good that a difficult creature comes up. That way the players need to build better decks to defeat that particular creature. Otherwise you would just steam roller the easy creatures all the time.
Actually, that is what we were trying to convey here; unfortunately the rulebook uses "Light Penalty" to refer to both a reduction in the light value and the actual attack penalty. It's fairly confusing overall. That said, if there is a spot in the video where it is particularly confusing please let us know and we'll put up an annotation. We try to catch those things in editing, but occasionally one slips through ;)
I think the new ruleset and the new thunderstone advance solves this with the "prepare" mechanic... (I haven't played it, but it seems that's how it works) you can keep cards and put them on top of your pile and draw them next round, but you can't do anything this round when you "prepare"
Yeah, the light explanation was a little inflated :P I'd explain it as the light on the blight dogs card basically moves the "rank" of the dog up by 1. So that dog in spot 2 is basically treated as if it were on spot 3. A dog on spot one would be treated as if it were on spot 2 (-4 to attack). A dog on spot three would be treated as one on spot "4" (-8 to attack).
Thunderstone is a good game, but it shares a pretty serious flaw with Dominion (and I assume - other deck-building games) - the cards required for victory fill up your deck and increase the likelihood of dead hands. These games need a house rule removing the VP cards to a separate pile.
Is there a reason they didn't simply double Light values and make light vs. light penalty a 1:1 ratio? It seems that the 1:2 ratio serves no purpose other than to make smaller Light numbers and overcomplicate the calculations.
@2GASCB That's true, and I do dig that fact; however, the way the game works seems a little over complicated. I'd love to build up an awesome adventuring party to smite evil and reclaim ancient treasures... but I don't want to have to worry about the differences between light and light penalties and whether or not my heroes are strong enough to wield a short sword. Required strength on heroes for items and the light system turn me off of Thunderstone.
@devaloki This is very true. However, math can be misjudged, or you might make an attack against something just to get it out of the hall, even if you couldn't beat it. I'm not saying these are good ideas, just that they are possible things the rules have covered :) -Ken
I play my Blue Eyes White Dragon, tap 3 mana, and use Bulbasaur's vine whip! Er... I mean, Thunderstone looks um.... deck building is so much... um... woooo? Actually I really enjoy Dominion so I can't say anything about deck building games.
@kaowas Yeah, the game is certainly a little over-complicated; especially the whole light/light penalty thing. It actually plays pretty good once you're used to it, but it's definitely not the game for someone who wants something more casual.
I think it is really stupid and unfair to artificially review the old version when dragonspire was already out. basically you rate it as if there was no choice for a new player to get the improved version right away. you act as if you need to buy all the expansions to fix these problems. but dragonspire is a standalone game. and the new thunderstone advance even has a board, the "prepare mechanic" and lots more... 3.5/5 is only fair for the very first edition that nobody will buy anyway.
It does help, for sure, and you can always house rule the prepare action into your regular TS games.
Weeeell, that is of course one of the game mechanics - the better you are doing, the slower you get. In dominion there tend to be cards to mitigate this (things that let you discard cards to draw cards, among others), but I agree it can lead to some frustration.
On the other hand, someone who is drawing dead hand after dead hand may not have much to do, but is probably getting close to winning as it is, so it does balance the game a bit!
-Ken
One my favourite mechanics in TS is the extra card draws allowed by some cards in the dungeon. They allow you to go in underpowered and risk that the extra cards will provide what you need. Fun.
I watched a review of the advanced version, and the 'Prepare' action is a great change. One I would house rule in for regular Thunderstone.
@devaloki The music here is actually by Paul Sullivan (my father), that song in particular is called "Silence". If you'd like, I could post some post some links for his music so you can download them.
-Ken
thanks guys i just bought thunderstone and didnt understand the setting up and the light penalty stuff so thanks for the tutorial. Thanks
I just got thunderstone advanced recently, and it kind of renewed my interest in the game, like, significantly!!! Haha!
I agree it's good for some harder monsters to come up earlier on to give a little challenge, but I've played games where the biggest B-A's come up in the first draw of the dungeon, and everyone is paralyzed to the town for the first half of the game.
The Advanced rules have ways of mitigating these now, which is all alright in my books!!
-Ken
Also a good point! Sometimes you have to risk failure to try and succeed! :D
-Ken
I have played Thunderstone several times on Facebook, now, and it is a good game - played in that format, since you can play solo. I don't know if it would hold the attention of my Spellfire (you heard that right) group, though, since there is virtually no interaction.
A warfare based deckbuilding game would be more appealing, I think.
Perhaps I will write another variant for Spellfire. My group actually had some of our house rules adopted as official Spellfire rules, back in the day.
I wholeheartedly agree that the later expansions are much better; however, this was a tutorial and review for the original game. If and when we do a tutorial for the expansions I imagine they'll get a much higher rating.
It should also be noted that at the time that we filmed this, Dragonspire had only been out for a couple of months, and Thunderstone Advanced hadn't been announced yet.
Sometimes it is worth it to attack deeper in the dungeon, as light tends to be fairly easy to come by (depending on the spread). But over all, it is true, the deeper you go, the more dangerous it is, and sometimes for little more pay off.
-Ken
Indeed. I am making a spellfire dungeon variation now.
Awesome video boys!
Well, that's what we were reviewing actually, the first edition. Which I did buy. While I agree with you that the later base sets fix these issues (and Advance was quite wonderful! I acquired it not long after it came out), understand that we were reviewing the Thunderstone, base set, not the Thunderstone Series as a whole. The series as a whole is magnificent, but this is one review of the original set as a starting point. Hope that clarifies our perspective for you. - Ken
I bought Thunderstone and I think it's great. On the dungeon deck, sometimes it's good that a difficult creature comes up. That way the players need to build better decks to defeat that particular creature. Otherwise you would just steam roller the easy creatures all the time.
Actually, that is what we were trying to convey here; unfortunately the rulebook uses "Light Penalty" to refer to both a reduction in the light value and the actual attack penalty. It's fairly confusing overall.
That said, if there is a spot in the video where it is particularly confusing please let us know and we'll put up an annotation. We try to catch those things in editing, but occasionally one slips through ;)
I think the new ruleset and the new thunderstone advance solves this with the "prepare" mechanic... (I haven't played it, but it seems that's how it works)
you can keep cards and put them on top of your pile and draw them next round, but you can't do anything this round when you "prepare"
@kaowas Your deck represents a near-epic adventuring party; what else could you want from a cardgame!? :D
- Ken
@kaowas I hear you on that. That's fair I think.
-Ken
You're welcome! Thats exactly why we make these :)
-Ken
:O Spellfire!?
The nice thing about thunderstone is that with a few modifications it could be many other different kinds of games!
Yeah, the light explanation was a little inflated :P I'd explain it as the light on the blight dogs card basically moves the "rank" of the dog up by 1. So that dog in spot 2 is basically treated as if it were on spot 3. A dog on spot one would be treated as if it were on spot 2 (-4 to attack). A dog on spot three would be treated as one on spot "4" (-8 to attack).
seems like Thunderstone is Munchkin meets Dominion
Why is the Blinkdog at -6? Is its Light -1 also double, so it becomes a -2?
Haha! Excellent!
-Ken
Thunderstone is a good game, but it shares a pretty serious flaw with Dominion (and I assume - other deck-building games) - the cards required for victory fill up your deck and increase the likelihood of dead hands.
These games need a house rule removing the VP cards to a separate pile.
Is there a reason they didn't simply double Light values and make light vs. light penalty a 1:1 ratio? It seems that the 1:2 ratio serves no purpose other than to make smaller Light numbers and overcomplicate the calculations.
@2GASCB That's true, and I do dig that fact; however, the way the game works seems a little over complicated. I'd love to build up an awesome adventuring party to smite evil and reclaim ancient treasures... but I don't want to have to worry about the differences between light and light penalties and whether or not my heroes are strong enough to wield a short sword. Required strength on heroes for items and the light system turn me off of Thunderstone.
@devaloki This is very true. However, math can be misjudged, or you might make an attack against something just to get it out of the hall, even if you couldn't beat it. I'm not saying these are good ideas, just that they are possible things the rules have covered :)
-Ken
Maybe I'm being really dumb but I can't tell which are heroes and which are monsters.
@2GASCB But again, I really like Dominion, so there's that.
I play my Blue Eyes White Dragon, tap 3 mana, and use Bulbasaur's vine whip! Er... I mean, Thunderstone looks um.... deck building is so much... um... woooo? Actually I really enjoy Dominion so I can't say anything about deck building games.
@kaowas Yeah, the game is certainly a little over-complicated; especially the whole light/light penalty thing. It actually plays pretty good once you're used to it, but it's definitely not the game for someone who wants something more casual.
Definitely wouldn't be hard!
I think it is really stupid and unfair to artificially review the old version when dragonspire was already out.
basically you rate it as if there was no choice for a new player to get the improved version right away.
you act as if you need to buy all the expansions to fix these problems.
but dragonspire is a standalone game.
and the new thunderstone advance even has a board, the "prepare mechanic" and lots more...
3.5/5 is only fair for the very first edition that nobody will buy anyway.
Its 2019, and I just got this original game for free in a trade, so SOMEONE is still playing it. Thanks for the tutorial guys! Very helpful.