Looking for the Lost Rivers of Roman London (4K)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 ม.ค. 2024
- This London walk takes us to the City of London looking for the lost rivers and streams of Roman London on the western edge of the old Roman City. A number of channels were excavated at 7-10 Old Bailey that indicated this area was a major tributary valley of the River Fleet. Our Roman London walk starts at the top of Ludgate Hill near St Paul's Cathedral then turns into Old Bailey, from here we go across Limeburner Lane into Old Seacoal Lane and along Farringdon Street. We turn into Bear Alley and then return to follow the course of the tributary back to its source just to the north of Newgate Street. From Greyfriars Churchyard we then follow the 'western stream' down across Paternoster Square to its confluence with the Thames near Puddle Dock.
Source: London Archaeologist Summer 2014 www.londonarchaeologist.org.uk/
Related videos:
Walking London's Roman Wall • Walking London's Roman...
Walking the River Fleet • Walking the River Flee...
City of London Churches walks • City of London Churche...
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Map of Roman London: Image extracted from page 33 of volume 1 of Old and New London, Illustrated, by Walter Thornbury.
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Brilliant video. In 1980 the OS produced a fantastic fold-out map called Londinium. It showed all the known Roman archeology superimposed onto a 1/2500 scale map. I still have mine but it is so out of date in terms of what modern London looks like and obviously what Roman stuff has been found in 44 years. It's a shame it hasn't been updated. I used to ride my bicycle around finding the places on the map, so I'm loving seeing you do the same thing on foot now.
Yes! Though I think my edition is slightly later.
The little London Wall walk pamphlet from the same time is also fantastic.
(Duplicates the enameled signs, some of which are now missing.)
Greyfriars Passage is amazing, when you're walking down it, you're walking underneath the crossing of one of the largest friary churches in the UK. In a space where monks would have walked to get to their cloisters or to worship in the main church. The footprint of Wrens church is actually just the chancel of a massive church that would have been twice the size! I just think that's amazing
Thanks for that great bit of detail Harry
It's great when John reminds us that the Fleet River is now completely underground. For the rest of us outside the UK, we aren't saying to ourselves, "Where's the water? What river?"
How nice it would be if there were some mini plaques every so often tracing the course of these ancient streams embedded in the sidewalks of London. They were literally the life blood and transportation systems of medieval London.
In Bristol the course of an old water supply, St John's Conduit, is marked by little brass plaques on the pavement. That's a man-made culvert from a Spring, one of Bristol's oldest water supplies. This could easily be done with the course of underground rivers.
Not a river but last autumn I kept seeing shiny steel dots along stretches of pavement up round Bishopsgate and the old city. It's a walk named after our late Queen. You can get the booklet from a tourist information office and do the whole walk,in fact I think you could spend a whole day doing it, especially if you stopped here and there,had coffees,lunch,diverged off to see things to left and right. It's a good idea,it takes you all round the old city without having to double back etc. I like exploring on my own but a guide is good sometimes and stops you wasting time.
The Fleet was still an open river in the 18th century famously engraved by Hogarth. It was also painted by Canaletto who made London look like Venice. It was pretty filthy even then and was effectively used as a sewer, although people did swim in it. Bridges were built across it increasingly and these were widened and joined up over time until the river entirely disappeared under stone and tarmac. It's still there however and is effectively a sewer these days. Farringdon Road marks the line of the Fleet for a good part of its length.
I think the rest of the country is tired of paying for londons art and history. They have enough.
John. As a Londoner myself, with past connections to the City, I love your honest passion. Please continue as you do, there is no better adviser to the World than someone who truly loves their home, and while London has its problems, there is no better city than London!
All big cities have problems. That doesn't erase the beauty and rich history. I'll be back in London this May, because I know there is still so much to see in this beautiful town :)
The foot measurement originally came from an extension of the original St. Paul’s church before it was destroyed in the great fire of London the foot is the size of canon Elgar feet that was used to extend the original church by 57 feet. The measurement was carved into the nave. And the foot become the measurement we use today Also the old St. Pauls measurement continued into the imperial foot size until modern times. Also the original St. Paul’s was much bigger than the latest one and a lot taller. 500 foot tall and took 130 years to build. If not for the fire of London it might still be standing.
There is a TV programme of a few years back where the presenter and someone from the maintenance staff go in the basement of the Old Bailey, then down a maintenance ladder. At the bottom the guy from the Old Bailey opens a steel manhole cover to reveal, a few feet down, running water. He said he was told it is a tributary of the Fleet. I can't for the life of me remember what the programme was called but I should think someone from the Old Bailey would know.
I think that was Stephen Fry. Everyone admired how he muted his personality down and really did make it about the buildings.
Hi John. Thank you for what you are doing for London on your walks as an 85 years young l was Born in Finsbury to a family of 8 girls . And spent most of my working life as a temp working all over the city and it’s amazing the parts of old London still surviving one basement I worked in still had parts of London wall protected . the office workers desks were positioned round it. I think it was around Chancery Lane area.
Ah you found The Cockpit pub, one of my favourite hidden gem discoveries in London! Tucked away , old and full of history
One of my favourite London pubs
It’s extraordinary what is hidden beneath the streets of London. I’ve walked some of those roads and never really thought about it. I know there are monuments and sections of Roman wall, only mostly people are just focused on daily life. Always enjoy these videos and the research you put into them.
Thanks Chris - there are just so many layers of the City
Great detective and camera work! Agree, the idea of a depopulated post Roman London is interesting. Read somewhere that the subsequent Germanic inhabitants thought the Roman city had been built by giants. Not sure if that is true. Thank you!
It must have felt strangely haunted to them.
Fascinating John. My office used to overlook the demolition and rebuild site at the corner of Limeburner Lane, Ludgate Hill and Old Bailey (2014-ish) and I spent far too much time gazing out of my window at all nthe boys'-toys, rubble clearance and foundation piling. Of most interest to me was when the big hole was completed, the site kept filling with water from the Fleet (or its trib), and this seemed to stall building works for quite a time while they worked out how to bridge or divert it...
I was working in Bishopsgate when they were doing the Spitalfields development, and the sarcophagus of the Roman Lady was found (the one with the scallop-shell decoration on the lead top) and the Museum of London were doing the archaeological study on it and the artefacts with the public able to walk past and see it in action. I spent a VERY long lunch period enjoying the work!
Great video, had never heard about these streams before! I think those islands formed by them with the Fleet would have been the site of the Fleet Prison is subsequent centuries.
It may already be on your radar, but there's another lost river across the City, just inside the eastern walls, called the Lorteburn. There's a London Archaeologist article by David Bently on it from the 80s accessible via the notes section of the Wikipedia page of the same name. Apparently it was evident in the landscape at least as late as the 13th century and flowed down from the vicinity of Aldgate via Crutched Friars and Seething Lane to the Thames near Water Lane next to the old Custom House.
The Wikipedia page seems to equate it with the contested Langbourne, though I'm not sure how usefully given how the existence of the Langbourne is doubted and how it is supposed to have run west along Fenchurch Street and Lombard Street (which seems unlikely from today's topography).
Another gem, John! I would like to, here and now, suggest that we name the lost, unnamed stream to be forever known to all as the River Rogers. This in honor of all your achievements in this fascinating arena.
Hear hear!
This is a fascinating history John. Your enthusiasm is so infectious-it compels me to get out and follow your footsteps (as ever).
Fantastic thanks Mark
I've worked at stationers hall a couple times for some very fancy dinners it's a gorgeous building inside
This one of the few programs I will stop everything and give it my full attention as it’s pure quality and informative 😊
Thanks so much David
First-class presentation. You take a really detailed subject, extract the important bits, then compose a documentary that surpasses much of what one sees on mainstream TV. Channels of this quality make TH-cam worthwhile.
Thanks so much Bruno
Limeburner Lane used to be called Old Seacoal Lane. In the mid 80's it was a very steep walk through from Old Bailey down to Farringdon Road. In the late 80's NCP built a car park there. It seems like it was renamed Limeburner Lane around that time.
Has the way been flattened out by all this road-and-building building ?
@@sianwarwick633sort of. When I was last there, the Lane ended in the car park, now it looks like it's diverted to the left and down the stairs that John walked down into Farringdon St. I guess Old Seacoal Lane originally led to the banks of the fleet.
Top topography thanks. I’ve long been struck by the Romans and their rivers. I’m from York and the Romans sited Eboracum there for us between the rivers Ouse and Foss. Confluences are very interesting I agree. Didn’t know the Romans integrated each and every waterway into their city planning. They were then much more respectful of sources and courses of rivers and tributaries. Brings to mind the spirit of water befire and with the Romans - see also Aquae Sulis/Minerva at Bath. Great you equated the old map of streams with the monastic reference points; as they also integrated water into their advanced sanitation. Many thanks
Back in late summer 2020 I was with some friends wandering along Fleet St when it could have been Shoe Lane.. looking up towards Holborn there is a very slight dip as the lane turns.. and it was full of water .. Just some flood or other from a building, but it showed there was a distinct low spot just where there is a very slight turn in the lane only 50 yards or so up..
I miss London.
Monasteries were often built on or by streams and water sources. They were great of managing water for domestic use and industry. I wonder if the site of other monasteries in London would mark the site of water sources and streams. Would they be one of those onsite hints you would see when you are there on the ground tthat would lead to a lost rivers location. Great videos. Love the history lessen.
Well (haha) remember the video John made of the water continuously bubbling up out of the ground in that park, that has a little grotto cover. Imagine if such a grotto were to be found anywhere in the City of London
They would've starved on Fridays if they didn't have their carp ponds fed by at least a stream!
Since discovering you on YT, I've started to take my time when walking around London just to try & enjoy what's around & imagine what it would have been like before all the modernastion
I miss driving under the railway bridge on ludgate hill✌🏻
One of your best flânages through perhaps both the historical and spiritual centre of the Capital. You seem to flow through the magnetic fields of the place, totally in tune. Thanks John.
many thanks for that kind comment zwerdna - much appreciated
REALLY FACINATING JOHN, Where would we be without you. Thank you
I love these kind of walks, discovering ghosts of the past. They spark the imagination.
No wonder the Rivers of London stories work so well
So much river myth and history.
How amazing is the name Portia Askew, by the way? Why don't we name the stream after her - the River Askew! Really love this one, it's so vital and important to have people like you getting excited about this kind of rediscovery.
I worked with Portia for 30 years, She only retired from the Museum of London Archaeology a couple of years ago.
Never messy, John, just compulsive viewing.
There’s always an air of melancholy about the city at the weekend, after this I’m going to look at the river front from google earth,thanks John 👍🏻for another great interesting video,cheers👍🏻
I never thought I'd find a John Rogers to top my favourite John Rogers, the famous Martyr. But here we are,
Ha, lovely thanks Daniel
Yay...Got my monday Malbec ready for this 👍
love the sound of Monday Malbec
Wonderful dimensional feel to this video. An intersection of time and space.
love that Michael
As compelling a watch as always. Thank you! --Jacqueline
thanks so much Jacqueline - sorry I missed this at the time
What a fascinating walk John
Re- the Stationers Guild Hall- I was lucky enough to work inside that building a few years ago, as a printer I felt privileged to see inside
Interestingly, the exterior (courtyard) has been used in TV and film including an episode of Downton Abbey
Great video as always John!
Thank you so much John! Excellent analysis. I spent many years working at Fleet Place and was always fascinated by the hidden Fleet River and bored everyone about it! I think they were secretly amazed we worked above a river and where a prison once stood! 👏🏼
I love that the algorithm brought me here! You have a new subscriber, love the passion and excitement!
Many thanks Matt - hope you enjoy the rest of the videos on the channel
Another fine video John , London is like an onion , layers upon layers of history , thanks for uncovering this fascinating chapter in early Londinium, wonderful , see you soon 🌈👍
Fascinating walk.
We are so blessed John with the great names of these streets and alleys around old London, so much history just waiting to be unpeeled by someone with your passion for us. I lack your vision and imagination but I can see the shapes and past of those times faded in history through your insights to a time no longer breathing. Thank you
Your channel was recommended by the dreaded TH-cam algorithms, probably because of my interest in history and street photography! But I'm glad it did, hooked now! Thank you.
A masterly video, John, I really enjoyed it.
Many thanks Theo
My pleasure, John.@@JohnRogersWalks
Nice one John, wonderful film...
Thanks Ralph
Surely the river should be called the john rogers canal. Fascinating walk as always John
Here is a text copy from The Londonist with Stephen Fry: Old Bailey Underground river
Delve into the depths of the Old Bailey's former coal room, and you'll find a hatch in the floor, beneath which is a ladder leading down to the culverted River Fleet. It's said that prison reformer Elizabeth Fry once collected water here for inmates, although how much good drinking from what was basically a sewer did them, we're not sure.
Its not a trickle either its fast flowing. So you can still actually see a tributary of the Fleet!
fantastic - many thanks
Wow, I enjoyed this walk amongst ancient rivercourses so much. Your enthusiasm is infectious, reminds me of tracing a local stream back to its bright bubbling spring next to a discarded shopping trolley as a kid in about 1977. Magical. Now I've got all your previous videos to enjoy
many thanks Lynette
When we see topographical evidence of lost rivers in built up places, the true scale of nature becomes evident, I mean, if you saw these riverine undulations in the countryside they'd look much smaller.. I suppose it goes to show how we humans will never be as big as Nature, not even Sir Christopher Wren..
Another lovely film; I too get a real sense of magic when contemplating lost rivers. We could name this tributary Rogers' Brook; after all we could leave the ambiguity there as to which Mr Rogers is he for whom it's named..
Nice one John! ⭐👍
I didn’t think anything would be able to cheer me up on this stressful, wet windy morning…. then here you are …. fantastic video, you are such a gem John . I adore your passion and share your excitement . ❤
Brilliant to hear Catherine
Old Seacoal Lane and if i recall correctly, Fleet Lane housed many buildings at 'river' level that required constant pumping of water from their basements 24/7.
Of course, the river Fleet, such as it is these days, emerges into the Thames via a large pipe, to the right of the bridge when viewed from the river
John, your enthusiasm is infectious. Excellent video as they all are thank you.
Fantastic piece. LOVE a hidden river hunt
Fantastic video! Love these kids of investigations. Thank you for making this.
John, do you ever just pop into those buildings and ask if they have anything kept uncovered and on display in the basements? Guess it couldn't hurt to ask while you're there :)
That’s not a bad idea
@@JohnRogersWalks Couldn't hurt, and besides, you're pretty famous around those parts now :D
I’m in the livery and have been into the garden a number of times. Truly lovely. If you’d like to visit John I could ask the clerk if access was possible BW k
Didn't come out "messy"......came out wonderfully! Don't let guards and those who simply don't know, ruin your day. We look forward to your walks, wherever they may be!
Absolutely.
You John thanks and me I'm interesting in anything you have research about London it's nice of you
For some reason I found this video more fascinating than some others. Not sure why but I learnt so much. Perhaps it was your enthusiasm.
Hi John
Way behind on your videos but started off on this one as it is an area I spent a lot of my working life .
All the best for 2024
Cheers Kev
I concur, Dr Rogers. Fleet Place seems a very likely place where the river headed to the Fleet with that small island to the north.
Great video John👍🏻👍🏻 you can really see where the rivers were when you explain. Fantastic to learn!
This has quickly become one of my favourite channels. Just fabulous!
Wow what a surprise. This just made my Monday. Thanks John 🎉
Pure Gold well done.
Being both a geographer & historian , find this fascinating too thanks👏Really feel for the homeless💔
Your enthusiasm is infectious john, another fantastic video
Iv only just found your channel and love it. Just watched the one on valentines park, I grew up not far away in Hornchurch and by grand mother lived in Becontree but I have never been to that park.
Fantastic walk. But - so much steel and glass, so many developments, hardly an inch left as it was. The rise and fall of the streets, and the patterns, still tell a lot.
There’s a few books on the rivers of London they were all covered over because of pollution and diseases It would be great if they opened them all up again. Imagine London with a lot more rivers instead of only the Thames The fleet is the second largest river in London. The Romans named it the Fleet because it’s a fast moving river.
i love your walks john im always rivited
I have a feeling that Mr Rogers could walk the length of the channel tunnel in the pitch black and still make it interesting, vibrant and personal - love these videos John - thank you!
Fascinating! I walk these streets every week but rarely know this sort of history. Once again a superb educating video.
Love your videos and your enthusiasm. If I could travel back in time it would be to Roman London. History down every alleyway. Thanks.
So fascinating to discover remnants of Roman London. An interesting walk.
So much still to learn about the City.
Roman Imperialist wall inside the Imperialist hegemon's bank, lol. Great work, John! Thank you.
Another excellent video.The number of lost rivers is amazing.It's also amazing the number of wells there are in London hidden in the depths of buildings.
Thank you John and I can’t believe that I was in the same part of the City this week, when I walked up Blackfriars Lane to Ludgate and actually had a lunch at the restaurant next to the lane which you identified as part of the tributary off the Old Bailey… Keep up the good work
Absolutely enthralling... 👍.
Your boundless enthusiasm for these ancient rivers make your walks even more enjoyable John ✌️☮️
Brilliant video, John. Keep them coming...
John, have you ever read any of Mary Cosh's body of work. She was an expert on Islington and in particular Barnsbury. I knew her. She was a lovely, eccentric old lady and died at 100, I believe...
Also, have you done a walk along the Hackney Brook?
Loved your video. I haven’t seen your videos for some time. Mainly because, for some reason, your videos stopped popping up on TH-cam. I missed your walks. I’m going to search for your videos from now on and not rely on TH-cam. Your videos give me much needed serenity❤️❤️
Thank You john, Keep safe .
Educational and interesting as usual John. Thank you.
Hi John, fantastic and such informative video as usual. Have a great week!!!
thanks Neil
another amazing engaging video John, thanks for this!!
The Cockpit PH still has the balcony inside where the punters used to watch the Cocks fighting.
I love your enthusiasm in these videos John. Thank you for cheering up my moody Monday.
Thanks Rob
Looking forward to watching this.
Thanks for your enthusiasm and being able to actually get to those currents underground. I barely recognise any of these buildings. Even their style puts me off. Thanks for that image of the rising water. I suppose you would call it a flood.
Hi John, when working on the construction of No 1 America Square next to Tower Hill a Roman wall was excavated and from what I remember was refurbished. The wall is likely in the basement of No 1 America Square
Thanks John that was a nice video surprise for a Monday afternoon in California!! After many visits to London you have spurred me on to look closer for the hidden historical gems of the city on my next visit. Some I have realized I have walked right past after seeing some of your videos. Thankfully, there is always next time.
Joyous! That was fascinating. I’m enjoying the new selection of accompanying music too.
this was great, john - i really appreciate your effort and time dedicated to your videos. and, river walks are always fun! love from canada 😊
thanks john these are a real education keep up the brilliant work steve
I have been inside Stationers Hall which has some very early buildings on site and in the garden. It was at a Memorial service for a former employee.
I. LOVE your river walks!!!😊
Loving the new camera work. Very interesting views. Keep up the good work love your vit.
Excellent again.