🦊 Regarding Firefox. It's been well established for a LONG TIME that Do Not Track is little more than a placebo and a faux privacy setting. DNT is ignored with ease and lulls the uninitiated with a false sense of privacy control. Glad to see it's gone. Please do not view this move as a bad one by Firefox.
DNT was an idealistic mistake that ignored the existence of the profit motive on the Internet. If anything, its removal is an admission of how shitty everything is and how the good days of Internet safety and freedom are long gone.
I have helped two friends migrate to linux now. These where people who used to yawn and roll their eyes when they saw my laptop running linux then throw shit at me for not being able to play games and run Word or Excel. Now one runs PopOS and the other LMDE because of what kind of GUI they preferred.
Yep, my laptop stayed on Win10 because Win11 was so ad filled. My gaming PC now runs a steam linux variant with dual boot when needed. My laptop is going to go Linux before Win10 goes beyond support. Windows has just become adware and spyware now. It's sad.
I don't see how Recall csn exist in highly sensitive environments, such as hospitals, banks, government organizations. They're regulated and must protect sensitive data. When hackers get in and scrape out that data there's less need to targer servers.
The information Recall provides to law enforcement, 3 letter agencies, employers, and corporations is so valuable there is zero chance Recall is not forced on Windows users. Invasion of privacy is the entire point.
@@imacomputer1234 I think M$ calling it Windows Intelligence is actually a bit of a slip given who will actually benefit from its use. The lack of security, the lack of encryption.... None of that stuff is necessary or desirable if what you really building is a implant for intelligence collection.
Just like the sms back door that could literally never be abused being abused to mass export telecomms to china. If only anybody had spoken up or said that would happen.
@@muizzsiddique okay let's go with that, so the person doesn't know the brands as well. Feel better? I bet you guys are a lot of fun at parties, not that you have friends.
Recall is a black box feature that can't be customised, and also can't be turned off (not even temporarily). it is just a bad idea to roll it out like how it is now. ideas to put users in control: 1. show on screen when recall is on 2. let users disable it temporarily or completely when privacy is required but this will not be implemented, because the responsible people want it rolled out and turned on for all windows users
Could you imagine creating a piece of malware similar to "recall?' You have it take screenshots every "X" seconds throughout the day and delete them immediately. Then during off hours (midnight to 5 am) it recovers the deleted files then uploads them to the bad actors servers for more detailed analysis. No extra drive space used so it keeps it kind of stealthy.
Can you explain to me how that deletion and recovery works without using extra drive space? That guaranteeing that after the 'deletion' the drive space is not used for some other material, overwriting the 'deleted' content.
@@D.von.NShhhhhhhh you’re making too much sense. He clearly meant to shrink the Windows partition and make a hidden partition, which they’ll do the “create, delete, recovery” from. Duh!
@@D.von.N deletion does not delete the file, just the filesystem entry. It's content is still there and can be recovered with the right software Yes, there is a risk of them getting overwritten, but unless the user is doing massive downloading daily the attacker does not lose much
@@D.von.N Recall doesn't shrink or grow- it's reserves disk space and fills or empties as demand constraints allow in the meta. The space remains constant unless you otherwise change a parameter.
Recall and copilot gave me the push to finally move to linux. Steam has put in some immense work with proton getting games to run so smoothly on linux, even if the developers don't support it. I went with Garuda Linux and chose a different theme and disabled some of the annoying flair like wobbly windows when you drag them around.
to the password length story: i came across a site the other day casually derpin around and they had some of the "standart" requirements such as it has to have like a capital letter, a special character etc... but i kept getting errors about and at first couldnt make sense of it as my chosen password clearly matched all the requirements... thought im goin insane now til i figured: your password MUST be minimum 6 chars BUT MAXIMUM 15 chars.. still baffled what on earth they smoked rolling that out lol (sure it makes some sense that you dont want a user to have the whole lord of the rings books stored for free in your database for its passphrase but maxium 15 chars? bruh?) wild stuff
OK, but you know that you can launch Windows on a VM within Linux and just play those games there, right? Just need to enable Hyper-V and set a few key settings (mutahar has a video on it) and you can play those games. Or take my approach, and don't play games that have a crappy kernel-level anticheat. If some hacker figures out a zero-day exploit to any of those anticheats, anyone that has those games on their PC is at risk of getting hacked.
@@More_Row Thank you for reaching out. I certainly can help you with that and generate an answer for you: Thinking ...🧠41.6 s Step 1: Collect Data, every 5 seconds, but not copyrighted material Step 2: ??? Step 3: Profit If there is anything else I can help you with, let me know. I will be right here. Until Microsoft has earned... their One Hundred... Mill... no, BILLion... effing... Dollarse back... One day... Somehow...
The idea of going back to a point in time and seeing what you were doing on a PC is interesting in itself, so I understand what Nathan is talking about there. Like, it'd also be interesting to do this for real life too... xD Thing is, Recall isn't even remotely close to being the way to do it. In fact, it's proving itself to be the absolute worst way to do it. Like I dunno, try learning how to fly by jumping naked off a plane or something. Because while both of those ideas are interesting things - it's more like it's only interesting if only you could do it yourself, and a complete nightmare if there is even a very far off slight remote possibility of others doing it against you. Abstracting it a bit, it's like using a computer for photographic memory. Problem is, if your photographic memory has any chances of just leaking out, getting hacked, or the content being misused by a 3rd party, then it becomes an absolute nightmare. The "erase my browser history" joke, which is already used for a reason, pales in comparison on how bad the situation is if everything you are doing on a PC is being recorded. We use them for far too much these days. So, on that matter, I also agree with both Nathan and Henry's assessment. Microsoft is not treating this seriously enough or at all, and I don't think it ever will, because the way it's being done has no route towards being respectful of any privacy or individual security at all. It's just crazy to think that some people are already testing this out. I'm sure some bosses and managers would love to have this level of absolute control and panopticon powers over employees though, and this might be the reason why Microsoft is pursuing this so hard, which I just shudder to think about. This is a large step over virtual slavery. We had slavery, modern slavery, access to Recall from employees would be the next step in slavery, stalking, scams, impersonation, blackmailing, ransomware, and a bunch of other crimes. This is the sort of stuff that I'd still have a hard time recommending even if it was done offline, on an air gapped computer, running secure and open source OS and software, with high level encryption, and completely outside the reach of anyone else other than the user himself/herself. I'd still have a hard time to recommend this because even with the absolute best and most paranoid strategies to secure all that data, there is no perfect solution to keep it 100% secure. And given the risks it presents to anyone who uses it, it's just too much for anyone to assume. This has the risk of changing behavior and changing the way people do stuff with self censoring and restriction of freedom that is even worse than censorship on a dictatorship. The way Microsoft is doing it is the opposite of paranoid security. So it's a straight and plain nope. The number of ways this can be exploited to put you into an extremely vulnerable and dangerous position erases any potential good this can have. And once again, it's being sold as a convenience, no surprises there. I'm moving away from Windows anyways, so I don't care all that much what Microsoft will ultimately do with this, but it's the fact that a company can dress up something they absolutely know is extremely dangerous for people, in some marketing bullsh*t that focus only on potential benefits, and fool people with it - that's what is really worrying about all of this. This is exponentially worse than most things Microsoft has done in the past, with telemetry, with dark patterns, with forcible upgrades, with app store for data collection and microtransaction bs, and any other anti-consumer crap they've done in the past. BSOD jokes and whatnot pale in comparison to what they are trying to pass as benign here, and they cannot be this ignorant to say they don't know or don't think there are dangers to using something like Recall. Now, for me the forced upgrade to Win10 plus the telemetry crap have been more than enough to decide to switch to something else and eliminate everything related to Microsoft from my life. But Recall? Recall is definite proof that the company has gone completely downhill, as they hit the bottom of the pit with this. That is a level of maliciousness, incompetence, stupidity, ignorance, and/or whatever it may be that makes me not only want to move away from it, now I really want this company gone forever for everyone, no jokes. If they are stupid enough to even suggest something like this, they are an evil to the world that has almost no comparison. They've been going down this path of copying and making anti-consumer moves worse and worse for a while now, but man... I gotta give it to them to boldly make the next big step in becoming the absolute worst of the Big Tech, period. If this gets adopted en masse and go awry, even the mass data collection to create a parallel economy of private data selling might not be as bad. That's how I see Recall. The only thing I'm interested now is seeing how many people will fall victim to this. Depending on how many Windows users go this route, it'll signal that we need to start it all over, because there is no fixing things with computers and Internet plus human behavior anymore. We've been already on a route of the industry only developing things to make people more miserable and more self destructing than ever before, if Recall becomes a real big thing it only signals that we as a collective cannot stray away from this path so blind we've become to it.
Thank You guys for all the work you two do. I however will be sticking to WINDOWS 10 for a windows laptop just for work and stuff like that. Now, my personal laptop I use & have been using for roughly 4 months now is LINUX (FEDORA LINUX and it's the KDE version). I like Linux well this version and believe it or not it's faster then my windows 10 & faster then two other people brand new windows 11 laptops.
Recall will NEVER secure all sensitive information reliably. What if I'm at work? I will be looking at internal confidential emails, internal tickets that may detail current security flaws we have yet to close, a database with production data which the company is EXTREMELY secretive about, or private personal customer data. I will often have confidential proprietary source code open. To look at all this, I had to sign NDAs, undergo annual security trainings and ask many people for access rights. Microsoft's own authentication and 2FA is ironically the biggest pain in the ass about all this. And now, they want to FORCEFULLY CENTRALIZE all this data in one place, with minimal security, and make it conveniently AI searchable??
I remember an earlier explanation of MS recall saying that it used OCR on all screenshots to make them text-searchable. Why wouldn't the underlying HTML or window code be more faithfully searchable? Sure OCR would be necessary for images containing text, but it'd be inefficient in every other case.
Fiddling around with the SDK’s object inspector, it should be possible to find it without OCR… at least if it sticks to a standard or platform. Haven’t checked with anything Java related, but I’d guess that could be a problem with that approach.
It isn't *possible* to do this "with security in mind." If you want to have a good guess at who is beyond these FOSS projects, just look at the history of SE Linux -- and the permanent security vulnerabilities that were consequences of the decision to integrate it into every aspect of all FOSS Linux projects!
The reason Microsoft continues to force these software changes upon the customer base is because they can as you give them permission to do so via the EULA! Microsoft has a monopoly in the PC Operating System sphere. You have no choice in retail space and I believe this lack of choice is purposeful. Microsoft has an egregious adversarial End User License Agreement in my opinion. EULAs of this type in any industry need federal congressional or at the local state legislative review due to their post purchase subversive control into individual or corporate privacy. In effect if you continue to use Microsoft upon your purchased computer device, you rent it and have limited if no control what Microsoft extracts or installs upon your computer device. This legal reach needs to end in light of the 'Recall' application.
A lot of your arguments & points were valid, but simping for the government is never the answer. The government's job is to keep monopolies out of the market & the fact you could see monopolies for the last 100 years is evidence that the government is 100% entirely corrupt & its time should have ended generations ago.
I'm intending to use Recall on my TV PC. I don't check email, banking etc. on it. Purely for entertainment of the non-degen sort. What's important to me is a toggle for it. I do not want it for all of my other PC setups. Absolutely not.
The answer is easy: the task with a feature like this is not easy to follow to just read a name or data type and say: exclude this. No, here we have a tool that takes screenshots, the ai has to interpret the contents of that screenshot, identify information that might or might not be 'private' and obfuscate them. This again also means that a) the ai needs access to the private information, which should already be the dealbreaker of such a feature. b) the interpretation of content in an image is a whole different dimension of complexity. Even the same number in the same image will not always produce the same results, because of how AI works. In the end this is still a very easy thing: this is a feature, really nobdoy asks for and should have and this whole feature should honestly be scrapped already. This has such grave potential consequences that even legislation would be a viable approach, as such a feature is gaslighting a common person into disclosing a lot of things they would never do that under any normal circumstance. There is no benefit for anyone, except the feature creator. Any sane person would easily say: why the heck do they keep throwing ressources at this? It is clearly not for your benefit. That is a no brainer. And i think you are being very naive to think this was created as a mistake and because people did not think about anything. People can be idiots, yes, but not this much. There is a purpose behind an investment, always. Regarding the password length. We honestly need to stop trying to enhance password complexity. We are entering a point where security experts say you need to write paragraphs as your password, but it needs to be random nonsense. This forces everyone to use password managers anyway. So now all your passwords and access to your life is suddenly stored in a single point of attack. So we need to hope that this place would be secure. The other part here is another point: reality. Lots of software are now made in a way that makes even password managers not work with those applications. So we enter the part of copy and paste and again, expose our passwords to a single point of attack. The so far best concept is MFA, if we could educate companies that SMS is not a viable option and they should stop data phising on the pretext of security. Given companies will never self regulate, this actually needs to be enforced via the law. And then we are coming to the point of, when we have MFA, suddenly password strength becomes less relevant. Of course, nothing is perfect, so no, this is also not a perfect solution, but much more robust than password complexity as a security measure. Long story short: we really need to stop just throwing tidbits of information out there and sell these as security facts. The world is confusing as is, trying to gaslight people into believing they need to suddenly write paragraphs of random nonsense to access their calendar is not helpful.
I thought the updates were being done until Oct 2025? I just checked my Windows 11 24h2 and it seems to have stopped this last October ....HOLY CRAP !! They just say to update but not sure how to do this?!
Recall needs to require you to set a separate encryption password specifically for Recall, and encrypt all its data with a key derived from that password. Encryption keys for Recall should NEVER be stored on the hard drive. WINDOWS HELLO IS NOT ADEQUATE! PERIOD!
The only upgrade from Win10 I am planning is to Linux. Never had much trust for Microsoft, but their approach with Win11 and Recall completely broke it.
So happy I switched to Linux years ago. I've never regretted the switch. Microsoft just keeps making Windows worse and worse and people just keep using it.
So Yahoo has been a market leader, and the time has come to destroy that legacy by outsourcing security ops to whom exactly? Did some private equity company take over? Seeing some familiar pattern here.
I want Recall on my work machine. My work machine where I don’t ever do anything personal. It would be amazingly useful. Tell me about that thing I spoke to Joe about. Where did I see this information? In the corp environment it would be super useful. I never want it running at home or on any personal computer.
I have the recall button on my start menu even after running tools to remove it, its kinda crazy, not even a recall pc. just a standard amd ryzen 64bit x86 processor and a rtx3060. also i think its just in edge at the moment but yeh it will be forced into win11 soon. starting to move over to linux on everything but my main pc as i game quite abit on my main pc, also the goddamn adobe sweet not being on linux. davinci resolve having awful codec support in linux also
iv want to see MS add fuzzy search to file explorer, instead of this. also add fuzzy search in the browser. imagine fuzzy search trough browsing history and bookmarks.
Personally i believe Microsoft did this by design , hence their slow response to the issue . Windows is a necessary evil at this time as some software is only usable on the windows platform .
Heaven forbid anyone do any actual business with Recall. Payroll? Customer orders? This is going to hurt more than just the user, it's going to spiral out and destroy thousands of lives.
I don't care if Recall comes with endorsement from CERN and Fort Knox... it's a bad idea that hackers will exploit like nothing we've ever seen before.
🦊 Regarding Firefox. It's been well established for a LONG TIME that Do Not Track is little more than a placebo and a faux privacy setting. DNT is ignored with ease and lulls the uninitiated with a false sense of privacy control. Glad to see it's gone. Please do not view this move as a bad one by Firefox.
It's just another data point toward the total fingerprint of the browser. A net negative tbh!
Also Mastadon and Blue'skeet' is hilariously bad and obvious honeypots for extreme people on Biden side
DNT was an idealistic mistake that ignored the existence of the profit motive on the Internet. If anything, its removal is an admission of how shitty everything is and how the good days of Internet safety and freedom are long gone.
@@logoninternetmaybe it could be discussed if it would help a court case that you didn't understood what was written
I can't imagine how corporations or government offices could allow Recall. Are they going to have to accept a huge security hole?
@@erintyres3609 Heck no, they simply won't have it! Of course, if you are working at home from your personal computer . . . .
The only thing MS seems hardcore about is getting Us to move to a Linux/MacOS environment _permanently._
On my new PC build I'm doing dual boot of Linux and windows 10. Recall is such a terrible idea. Microsoft openly data mining everything you do.
I have helped two friends migrate to linux now. These where people who used to yawn and roll their eyes when they saw my laptop running linux then throw shit at me for not being able to play games and run Word or Excel. Now one runs PopOS and the other LMDE because of what kind of GUI they preferred.
Just need steam desktop OS to develop and I’m switching
Recall was the final nail in my move to linux. I was preserving a windows nvme, but that will be securely wiped when I get around to it
Yep, my laptop stayed on Win10 because Win11 was so ad filled. My gaming PC now runs a steam linux variant with dual boot when needed. My laptop is going to go Linux before Win10 goes beyond support. Windows has just become adware and spyware now. It's sad.
I don't see how Recall csn exist in highly sensitive environments, such as hospitals, banks, government organizations. They're regulated and must protect sensitive data. When hackers get in and scrape out that data there's less need to targer servers.
The information Recall provides to law enforcement, 3 letter agencies, employers, and corporations is so valuable there is zero chance Recall is not forced on Windows users. Invasion of privacy is the entire point.
Also to get more data to train their ai.
@@imacomputer1234 I think M$ calling it Windows Intelligence is actually a bit of a slip given who will actually benefit from its use. The lack of security, the lack of encryption.... None of that stuff is necessary or desirable if what you really building is a implant for intelligence collection.
Just like the sms back door that could literally never be abused being abused to mass export telecomms to china. If only anybody had spoken up or said that would happen.
They need to stop Recall completely. I'm gonna switch to Mac or Linux if Recall is forced onto me. And I have a lot of stuff on Windows that I do.
@@junaid2606 switching to Linus is a good idea. He has some great tech tips.
"Apple OS or Linus"
@gjvyigfghjghivff English might not be his first language, lighten up. We all knew what he meant.
@@JohnWalsh2019 Getting brand names right or wrong is not a matter of language speaking ability.
@@muizzsiddique okay let's go with that, so the person doesn't know the brands as well. Feel better? I bet you guys are a lot of fun at parties, not that you have friends.
Its spyware.
Recall is a black box feature that can't be customised, and also can't be turned off (not even temporarily). it is just a bad idea to roll it out like how it is now.
ideas to put users in control:
1. show on screen when recall is on
2. let users disable it temporarily or completely when privacy is required
but this will not be implemented, because the responsible people want it rolled out and turned on for all windows users
Apparently, Recall is a dependency of Explorer.
Meanwhile, elsewhere.... This doesn't happen :)
All our tech has premade backdoors.. this is all done on purpose. Faux security like using anything wireless.
but you can disable it? The function of recall working through explorer: Dism /Online /Disable-Feature /Featurename:Recall
@@handicapper911 you can deactivate it, but not disable it. Explorer requires it to be there now, according to Dave Plummer.
Could you imagine creating a piece of malware similar to "recall?' You have it take screenshots every "X" seconds throughout the day and delete them immediately. Then during off hours (midnight to 5 am) it recovers the deleted files then uploads them to the bad actors servers for more detailed analysis. No extra drive space used so it keeps it kind of stealthy.
Can you explain to me how that deletion and recovery works without using extra drive space? That guaranteeing that after the 'deletion' the drive space is not used for some other material, overwriting the 'deleted' content.
@@D.von.NShhhhhhhh you’re making too much sense.
He clearly meant to shrink the Windows partition and make a hidden partition, which they’ll do the “create, delete, recovery” from. Duh!
@@maxgorden499 so you need to use extra drive space, by shrinking the existing partition...
@@D.von.N deletion does not delete the file, just the filesystem entry. It's content is still there and can be recovered with the right software
Yes, there is a risk of them getting overwritten, but unless the user is doing massive downloading daily the attacker does not lose much
@@D.von.N Recall doesn't shrink or grow- it's reserves disk space and fills or empties as demand constraints allow in the meta. The space remains constant unless you otherwise change a parameter.
Recall and copilot gave me the push to finally move to linux. Steam has put in some immense work with proton getting games to run so smoothly on linux, even if the developers don't support it.
I went with Garuda Linux and chose a different theme and disabled some of the annoying flair like wobbly windows when you drag them around.
Steam is trash, WEF "you'll own nothing & be happy" agenda. You've been warned.
I feel bad for all those people who are trapped on windows.
@@roccociccone597 They don't think about you ever
It was so haphazardly tossed together. They're so eager to get their Spyware up and running.
to the password length story: i came across a site the other day casually derpin around and they had some of the "standart" requirements such as it has to have like a capital letter, a special character etc... but i kept getting errors about and at first couldnt make sense of it as my chosen password clearly matched all the requirements... thought im goin insane now til i figured: your password MUST be minimum 6 chars BUT MAXIMUM 15 chars.. still baffled what on earth they smoked rolling that out lol (sure it makes some sense that you dont want a user to have the whole lord of the rings books stored for free in your database for its passphrase but maxium 15 chars? bruh?) wild stuff
Tuta needs to take these companies on, not blame their users.
I hate sites like that! I use a password manager and my default password length is 21 minimum. I used to use 25, but too many sites were unhappy.
Binned Windows in June.
Linux is a thing you can ACTUALLY use as a desktop these days.
Not true; some games still can't even launch on non-Windows.
@@CnCDune Some games don't work on Windows either, doesn't mean it's not usable.
Ubuntu is good but it can't run my art program 😞
OK, but you know that you can launch Windows on a VM within Linux and just play those games there, right? Just need to enable Hyper-V and set a few key settings (mutahar has a video on it) and you can play those games. Or take my approach, and don't play games that have a crappy kernel-level anticheat. If some hacker figures out a zero-day exploit to any of those anticheats, anyone that has those games on their PC is at risk of getting hacked.
@@adamk.7177 How elitist of you to think everyone has enough power for Windows-games to run in a VM.
Of course it's bad, it's Microsoft!
Recall drove me to Linux earlier this year and I’ve been thoroughly enjoying the experience.
Recall is malware - no other way to say it
I'm curious, how does Microsoft intend to monetize Recall?
think about it
They want to sell your info to your goverment.
@@More_Row Thank you for reaching out. I certainly can help you with that and generate an answer for you:
Thinking ...🧠41.6 s
Step 1: Collect Data, every 5 seconds, but not copyrighted material
Step 2: ???
Step 3: Profit
If there is anything else I can help you with, let me know. I will be right here. Until Microsoft has earned... their One Hundred... Mill... no, BILLion... effing... Dollarse back... One day... Somehow...
They'll tell you to pay up or they sell your details to the highest bidder.
@@muizzsiddique they won't say a word. They'll just collect and sell everything.
The idea of going back to a point in time and seeing what you were doing on a PC is interesting in itself, so I understand what Nathan is talking about there. Like, it'd also be interesting to do this for real life too... xD
Thing is, Recall isn't even remotely close to being the way to do it. In fact, it's proving itself to be the absolute worst way to do it. Like I dunno, try learning how to fly by jumping naked off a plane or something.
Because while both of those ideas are interesting things - it's more like it's only interesting if only you could do it yourself, and a complete nightmare if there is even a very far off slight remote possibility of others doing it against you.
Abstracting it a bit, it's like using a computer for photographic memory. Problem is, if your photographic memory has any chances of just leaking out, getting hacked, or the content being misused by a 3rd party, then it becomes an absolute nightmare.
The "erase my browser history" joke, which is already used for a reason, pales in comparison on how bad the situation is if everything you are doing on a PC is being recorded. We use them for far too much these days.
So, on that matter, I also agree with both Nathan and Henry's assessment. Microsoft is not treating this seriously enough or at all, and I don't think it ever will, because the way it's being done has no route towards being respectful of any privacy or individual security at all. It's just crazy to think that some people are already testing this out. I'm sure some bosses and managers would love to have this level of absolute control and panopticon powers over employees though, and this might be the reason why Microsoft is pursuing this so hard, which I just shudder to think about. This is a large step over virtual slavery. We had slavery, modern slavery, access to Recall from employees would be the next step in slavery, stalking, scams, impersonation, blackmailing, ransomware, and a bunch of other crimes.
This is the sort of stuff that I'd still have a hard time recommending even if it was done offline, on an air gapped computer, running secure and open source OS and software, with high level encryption, and completely outside the reach of anyone else other than the user himself/herself. I'd still have a hard time to recommend this because even with the absolute best and most paranoid strategies to secure all that data, there is no perfect solution to keep it 100% secure. And given the risks it presents to anyone who uses it, it's just too much for anyone to assume. This has the risk of changing behavior and changing the way people do stuff with self censoring and restriction of freedom that is even worse than censorship on a dictatorship.
The way Microsoft is doing it is the opposite of paranoid security. So it's a straight and plain nope.
The number of ways this can be exploited to put you into an extremely vulnerable and dangerous position erases any potential good this can have. And once again, it's being sold as a convenience, no surprises there.
I'm moving away from Windows anyways, so I don't care all that much what Microsoft will ultimately do with this, but it's the fact that a company can dress up something they absolutely know is extremely dangerous for people, in some marketing bullsh*t that focus only on potential benefits, and fool people with it - that's what is really worrying about all of this. This is exponentially worse than most things Microsoft has done in the past, with telemetry, with dark patterns, with forcible upgrades, with app store for data collection and microtransaction bs, and any other anti-consumer crap they've done in the past. BSOD jokes and whatnot pale in comparison to what they are trying to pass as benign here, and they cannot be this ignorant to say they don't know or don't think there are dangers to using something like Recall.
Now, for me the forced upgrade to Win10 plus the telemetry crap have been more than enough to decide to switch to something else and eliminate everything related to Microsoft from my life. But Recall? Recall is definite proof that the company has gone completely downhill, as they hit the bottom of the pit with this. That is a level of maliciousness, incompetence, stupidity, ignorance, and/or whatever it may be that makes me not only want to move away from it, now I really want this company gone forever for everyone, no jokes. If they are stupid enough to even suggest something like this, they are an evil to the world that has almost no comparison.
They've been going down this path of copying and making anti-consumer moves worse and worse for a while now, but man... I gotta give it to them to boldly make the next big step in becoming the absolute worst of the Big Tech, period. If this gets adopted en masse and go awry, even the mass data collection to create a parallel economy of private data selling might not be as bad. That's how I see Recall.
The only thing I'm interested now is seeing how many people will fall victim to this. Depending on how many Windows users go this route, it'll signal that we need to start it all over, because there is no fixing things with computers and Internet plus human behavior anymore. We've been already on a route of the industry only developing things to make people more miserable and more self destructing than ever before, if Recall becomes a real big thing it only signals that we as a collective cannot stray away from this path so blind we've become to it.
I can tell ya who the ones are that are excited to get this installed yesterday...the 5 I's....Duh
Thank You guys for all the work you two do.
I however will be sticking to WINDOWS 10 for a windows laptop just for work and stuff like that. Now, my personal laptop I use & have been using for roughly 4 months now is LINUX
(FEDORA LINUX and it's the KDE version). I like Linux well this version and believe it or not it's faster then my windows 10 & faster then two other people brand new windows 11 laptops.
I have yet to hear a single real world use case. Another solution in search of a problem to solve.
Recall will NEVER secure all sensitive information reliably. What if I'm at work? I will be looking at internal confidential emails, internal tickets that may detail current security flaws we have yet to close, a database with production data which the company is EXTREMELY secretive about, or private personal customer data. I will often have confidential proprietary source code open. To look at all this, I had to sign NDAs, undergo annual security trainings and ask many people for access rights. Microsoft's own authentication and 2FA is ironically the biggest pain in the ass about all this. And now, they want to FORCEFULLY CENTRALIZE all this data in one place, with minimal security, and make it conveniently AI searchable??
Actually switching to Linux due to Recall and windows ads. I do not want a PC built on spyware.
I remember an earlier explanation of MS recall saying that it used OCR on all screenshots to make them text-searchable. Why wouldn't the underlying HTML or window code be more faithfully searchable? Sure OCR would be necessary for images containing text, but it'd be inefficient in every other case.
Fiddling around with the SDK’s object inspector, it should be possible to find it without OCR… at least if it sticks to a standard or platform. Haven’t checked with anything Java related, but I’d guess that could be a problem with that approach.
Because it exists to create Big Data, period-full-stop. *Everyone* who accumulates any Big Data reservoir finds buyers for access.
Do you know Sarah Tombrink?
Am I far from truth that for a successful ransomware attack you need just one human not doing things right in the target organisation/computer?
I've set all my companies Windows 11 pc's to not upgrade past 23H2 for now.
Speaking of Recall, there are FOSS implementations on Github that tries to do what Recall proposes to do but with security in mind.
It isn't *possible* to do this "with security in mind." If you want to have a good guess at who is beyond these FOSS projects, just look at the history of SE Linux -- and the permanent security vulnerabilities that were consequences of the decision to integrate it into every aspect of all FOSS Linux projects!
I love be a sys admin I have disabled copilot and recall on group policies
The reason Microsoft continues to force these software changes upon the customer base is because they can as you give them permission to do so via the EULA!
Microsoft has a monopoly in the PC Operating System sphere. You have no choice in retail space and I believe this lack of choice is purposeful. Microsoft has an egregious adversarial End User License Agreement in my opinion. EULAs of this type in any industry need federal congressional or at the local state legislative review due to their post purchase subversive control into individual or corporate privacy. In effect if you continue to use Microsoft upon your purchased computer device, you rent it and have limited if no control what Microsoft extracts or installs upon your computer device. This legal reach needs to end in light of the 'Recall' application.
A lot of your arguments & points were valid, but simping for the government is never the answer. The government's job is to keep monopolies out of the market & the fact you could see monopolies for the last 100 years is evidence that the government is 100% entirely corrupt & its time should have ended generations ago.
It's from Microsoft.
I'm intending to use Recall on my TV PC. I don't check email, banking etc. on it. Purely for entertainment of the non-degen sort. What's important to me is a toggle for it. I do not want it for all of my other PC setups. Absolutely not.
The answer is easy:
the task with a feature like this is not easy to follow to just read a name or data type and say: exclude this.
No, here we have a tool that takes screenshots, the ai has to interpret the contents of that screenshot, identify information that might or might not be 'private' and obfuscate them.
This again also means that
a) the ai needs access to the private information, which should already be the dealbreaker of such a feature.
b) the interpretation of content in an image is a whole different dimension of complexity. Even the same number in the same image will not always produce the same results, because of how AI works.
In the end this is still a very easy thing: this is a feature, really nobdoy asks for and should have and this whole feature should honestly be scrapped already. This has such grave potential consequences that even legislation would be a viable approach, as such a feature is gaslighting a common person into disclosing a lot of things they would never do that under any normal circumstance. There is no benefit for anyone, except the feature creator.
Any sane person would easily say: why the heck do they keep throwing ressources at this? It is clearly not for your benefit. That is a no brainer. And i think you are being very naive to think this was created as a mistake and because people did not think about anything. People can be idiots, yes, but not this much. There is a purpose behind an investment, always.
Regarding the password length. We honestly need to stop trying to enhance password complexity. We are entering a point where security experts say you need to write paragraphs as your password, but it needs to be random nonsense. This forces everyone to use password managers anyway. So now all your passwords and access to your life is suddenly stored in a single point of attack. So we need to hope that this place would be secure.
The other part here is another point: reality. Lots of software are now made in a way that makes even password managers not work with those applications. So we enter the part of copy and paste and again, expose our passwords to a single point of attack.
The so far best concept is MFA, if we could educate companies that SMS is not a viable option and they should stop data phising on the pretext of security. Given companies will never self regulate, this actually needs to be enforced via the law.
And then we are coming to the point of, when we have MFA, suddenly password strength becomes less relevant. Of course, nothing is perfect, so no, this is also not a perfect solution, but much more robust than password complexity as a security measure.
Long story short: we really need to stop just throwing tidbits of information out there and sell these as security facts. The world is confusing as is, trying to gaslight people into believing they need to suddenly write paragraphs of random nonsense to access their calendar is not helpful.
I thought the updates were being done until Oct 2025? I just checked my Windows 11 24h2 and it seems to have stopped this last October ....HOLY CRAP !! They just say to update but not sure how to do this?!
Recall needs to require you to set a separate encryption password specifically for Recall, and encrypt all its data with a key derived from that password. Encryption keys for Recall should NEVER be stored on the hard drive. WINDOWS HELLO IS NOT ADEQUATE! PERIOD!
Recall "problems" are features to the real customers, the ones using your data.
The only upgrade from Win10 I am planning is to Linux. Never had much trust for Microsoft, but their approach with Win11 and Recall completely broke it.
So happy I switched to Linux years ago. I've never regretted the switch. Microsoft just keeps making Windows worse and worse and people just keep using it.
We NEED government to step in and make recall illegal.
recall i am soo excited to deleate it .
So Yahoo has been a market leader, and the time has come to destroy that legacy by outsourcing security ops to whom exactly? Did some private equity company take over? Seeing some familiar pattern here.
I want Recall on my work machine. My work machine where I don’t ever do anything personal. It would be amazingly useful. Tell me about that thing I spoke to Joe about. Where did I see this information? In the corp environment it would be super useful. I never want it running at home or on any personal computer.
I have the recall button on my start menu even after running tools to remove it, its kinda crazy, not even a recall pc. just a standard amd ryzen 64bit x86 processor and a rtx3060. also i think its just in edge at the moment but yeh it will be forced into win11 soon. starting to move over to linux on everything but my main pc as i game quite abit on my main pc, also the goddamn adobe sweet not being on linux. davinci resolve having awful codec support in linux also
I use as long as the place allows for a password length. I use a password manager so I don't care.
iv want to see MS add fuzzy search to file explorer, instead of this. also add fuzzy search in the browser. imagine fuzzy search trough browsing history and bookmarks.
Length of a password is useful only against the brut force cracking. With infostealers gaining popularity no password is safe anymore.
Personally i believe Microsoft did this by design , hence their slow response to the issue . Windows is a necessary evil at this time as some software is only usable on the windows platform .
i dont use windows anymore i switched my desktop to linux and replaced my laptop with a cheap 2015 macbook pro so i use linux anad mac os daily now
If they force this I'll likely dual boot between a Linux distro and Windows. Windows for gaming only. 95% of the my time will be on Linux.
Heaven forbid anyone do any actual business with Recall. Payroll? Customer orders? This is going to hurt more than just the user, it's going to spiral out and destroy thousands of lives.
I litteraly haven't heard any individual who desires this
Like... Most people don't have dementia, lol
i don't know of any one who wants recall, its one task is to gather info so microsoft can sell it and that why im going full Linux.
DoB isn't sensitive information.
Good show, if you know me I know you, says Gates
To answer the title question, it's this bad because Microsoft!
Thank you for the update
scaled agile velocity crap Project Mgt show boaters- pretty much
Global “Change Mgt” at its worst
Do you guys not realize what Microsoft is? Why they would do this? Seriously you dont know?
You think they didn't think about the problems? The design is as intended. Especially when you know why they are doing it.
buy your girlfriend the new recall pc never worry about her cheating again
I don't care if Recall comes with endorsement from CERN and Fort Knox... it's a bad idea that hackers will exploit like nothing we've ever seen before.