TIMMS BMW F12 650I GONE - AND HELLO TO A Z4 3.0 S-DRIVE
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 7 ก.พ. 2025
- Yes, the BMW F12 650i 6-Seies is not well at all. This video goes through what has gone wrong and what is happening to the car. On my drive at the moment is a 2011 Z4 3.0 S-Drive M-Sport, and it is the the most exciting car I have driven for absolutely years!
But I need you to have a listen to my N63 V8 engine and let me know what you think about it.
#bmwf12, #bmwz4,
Personally i think your vid is going be the death knell for many prospective n63 /f12 650i owners. After viewing your vid , I wouldn't touch this model with a barge pole. As always Timm, thanks for your educational content .
I think you are right!
@davidtodd907 it most likely is for me.
These engines have hydraulic tappers and sometimes they stick in the compressed position causing a noise very much like yours, as there is a gap between the lifter and the cam. I’ve had a few in the past do it.
You can just buy just the lifter and on some you can slide it in without removing the cam shaft.
Thanks for the info!
Bmw make the best 3 litre straight six in the business. Its there bread and butter ...
I am coming to that opinion too!
@TimmsBMWRepairsandInformation I have just bought the best BMW I have ever had. The E71 X6 M50D. What a machine. That 3 litre straight 6 tri- turbo provides linier power with fantastic torque. I kept my E64 so now a good line up.
Wow, was going to follow your example with my old 650 convertible with 100k, thankfully I will now stay loyal to the old car with it's lovely V8!!
Good man and a wise choice!
I had a long comment ready for you but got interrupted and never pushed send!
Anyway, when you first got the F12 I was floored because it was exactly what I wanted, low miles, and fantastic colour combo and condition.
You told me it was a year 2011, and I didn't want to push it any further. Having heard my Danish neighbor's 550i running (sounds like a diesel) and having read about the 408 hp version giving people trouble, so I left it alone, thinking if anyone could fix it, it would be you.
And BOOM, you went and had the same issues and returned the car.
Funny, that you picked an E89 instead, as my wife and I had a Mediterranean Blue 23 version from new in 2008/9. Underpowered, but very expensive in Thailand. We loved it so much, and kept it for over 8 years until the Thai insurance refused to cover it 1st class. Anyway, stick that in Sport, on the buttons, and pay attention to how quick the gear changes become. It's almost F1 style. And to turn the aircon off, you need to back off the fan-speed until it shuts down. Quirky.
The great news is that with all the great comments you have asked for and received, I have passed the Hydraulic Lifter issue onto my Danish neighbor so he can have his 550i looked at, maybe. He's dying to get an E64 like mine, but the dealers won't touch his 2011 550i, now we know why.
Sorry for the long comment, enjoy the Z4 and the lovely sound coming from it.
Great to hear they fixed the roof so you can open it at speed, ours stopped if you went beyond idle, first year of the E89.
Hello Kim, thanks for the long reply! I've had enough of the F12, it's gone back to the garage and I will get some of my money back. I am thankful that this episode has brought me to the Z4 - what a car! Not only are the changes faster in Sports or Sports+, the engine gives a little blip as you go down a gear - just like double de-clutching in a manual car. It is SO clever! Loads of video's coming in the future as I am having good fun fixing things. Greetings from the UK
Hi Tim ,yes as mentioned below I also think its hydralic lifters, my BMW can make the same noise. A long fast run seems to get rid of the noise for a while.
Thanks, I did give it a lot of welly and it sounded worse!
Just sold my 2015 F06 650i Gran Coupe at 88k miles. It's been quite reliable for me. The two high pressure fuel pumps were my only issues. Both were covered by bmw's 10 yr/125k warranty (US). Otherwise, very reliable. I loved it for long highway cruises. Had a 2011 M3 Comp for 92k miles that never asked me for a thing besides standard maintenance. The one that viciously bit me was a 2012 X5M. Buying that thing was an award winning mistake! That car was 2nd hand, checked by BMW pre purchase, and was never meant to stick around for more than a year. Then it Broke My Wallet!
As for the Z4, It's beautiful! And NO turbos!! Keep it!
Thanks, I will keep it for a long time I'm sure! We've all made mistakes like that....
Sorry to hear the N63 lived up to its reputation so quickly. 650 is a great looking car but the maintenance and repair costs are on another level. Many say N52 is one of or the best engine BMW ever made so hopefully this will be stress-free experience for you :)
Yes, the N52 appears to be a brilliant engine!
I'll just stick with my 20 year old 645 e62 with 96.000 loved miles on it thanks, I hope the Z4 and you have a wonderful time together I might even take a ganders at one myself thanks for everything Tim.
Always my pleasure, yes the E63/E64 was the last in the line of great 6-series@
Nice! I think you'll find the E89 is a great all-round car, especialy in the 3L NA engine variant. It's solid GT, reasonable practical and fuel efficient, hard top works great in winter and I have to say;15 years later it still turns heads, even mine when I park it and walk away:D Such a good design and proportions. And there is another great reasono to own one: it's wonderfull to work on due to long hood, it's more of an engine display than an engine bay, really:D
I am absolutely loving it, it's been a while since I have had to make a car better rather than just fix things that break!
Sounds like an oil pressure issue. Which can be tricky. As your tappets, Vanos and bottom end are all dependent on a good oiling system.
I agree!
Thx for sharing! Sad to see the F12 living up to its reputation so soon
My pleasure!
I’m 25 and I’ve just bought a Z4 23i. Fantastic car, the sound is super emotive, looks beautiful and it’s 45mpg on a run
Well kept secret
Couldn't agree more!
Z4 e89 I have the same n52 model. Done various bits first thing changed the wheels they crack. Top vid Tim. Also there is a recall on the vanso bolts that needs doing asap.
Thanks! Loving the Z4 so far - the other thing to do first is to change the chain tensioner which I will do this weekend. I'm not surprised the wheels crack, 30 ration on runflats!
Well Timm in regards to your headlining on the E31 I'm happy for you to pop around to see my newly done headlining and parcel shelf as I am just around the corner (I have the black E31 you parked next to at the Shed car show). My was done by trimmania who collected and dropped off the car.
Good luck with the Z4 I do like them.
Thanks Lloyd, now that sounds like a good plan - I'll give Trimmania a call!
As I said you can view their work at mine 5 mins from you. I had Alcantara headlining, pillars and back shelf.
Hi Timm. Great choice on the Z4 naturally aspirated engine. Those straight six engines are subliminal, masterpieces. From the video with the mic picking up the ticking sound, the ticking sound came from the right hand side (if standing in front of the car). I don't know if they use a high pressure fuel pump that is located in the engine. Perhaps that could be the noise. I live by th theory that sometimes less is more. In your case, no turbo's and two less cylinders = wallet doesn't scream anymore.
Thanks, and I agree, that straight-6 is absolutely brilliant!
These engines employ hydraulic tappets - I suspect there is an oil feed issue or blockage to one of them on the rear near side head (which is where the noise appears to emanate from). Hopefully not too big a problem to fix, but it will need the rocker cover removed.
That was my first thought too. 👍🏽
Thanks, the tappety noise is certainly a stuck tappet, but the roaring noise is the expensive bit!
Nice Z4 but you made your indicators worse!! - cheap tacky chrome!.. the alloys are nice but are prone to cracking with the run flats - so good you're changing them! - enjoy it! :)
Thanks! They are actually BMW OEM indicators - and I bought them from BMW directly. In the UK there seems to be around 10% of Z4's that have them fitted, very strange! I like them!
@@TimmsBMWRepairsandInformation the indicators you bought are the LCI indicators available on all Z4's from about 2013 onwards.. it's purely a personal preference but think the pre facelift indicators looked much cleaner.. love the colour combo of your Z4 though!! - don't see too many like that! :)
@@TimmsBMWRepairsandInformationthey look excellent Tim
Timm, NICE! Love the new car.
Thanks, so do I!
3 BMW's? Timms is hardcore. Good luck, bro.
It sounds like the Turbo is on its way out.
Back to 2, and my first straight 6!
@TimmsBMWRepairsandInformation I LOVE the straight 6. So easy to work on, and they have a lot of bottom end.
That’s a shame about your 650 typical for salesman yer can’t hear anything if you can hear it on video you’d defo hear it stood in front seems a bit premature for timing chain but somethings definitely wrong as for the z4 very nice don’t where you find these nice cars ha ha is it the n53 didn’t think they put the n52 in the later models hope you get it sorted though keep the videos coming Timm nice work .
Thanks Stevie, not only do the salesmen not think there is anything wrong with it, but BMW doesn't either! I can see I have a battle on my hands!
That’s not good keep fighting it’s disgusting when you pay a lot of hard earned money out on something then they refuse to fix it and do anything to get out out of it but their quick enough to take your money for the sale.After sales service these days is awful good luck mate hope you get it sorted
The other thing about E89s is that, in the UK at least, they are absolutely dirt cheap for the amount of car you are getting!
I recently sold both my E85 Z4M and Alpina Roadster S for nearly double what you can buy a decent E89 35i for and which offers nearly the same performance!
E89s make a very good case for themselves as a buy, particularly at this time of year (November). I have too many cars so I daren’t look at the classifieds ads for E89s ! 😅
@@derin111 The only problem is finding a 6 cylinder one without turbos. That cuts it back to a handful.
@@andrewthompsonuk1Ah….I didn’t think about that. Talking to my BMW specialist guy a few weeks ago, he also told me that it is now impossible to buy any new BMW that isn’t turbocharged! 😮
I agree with all the comments in this thread, the hard bit was finding a decent Z4 without the soft-top AND without the turbo's AND with a 6-speed Auto box - I was also fussy about the interior. But, this one was meant for me and this channel!
Hi Timm was sad to see or hear the issues you’re experiencing with your F series. My own 650 is a LCI F13 coupe it’s a 2015 N63TU which is supposed to have ‘cured’ the known problems of the earlier N63 V8s ie the valve stem guides etc etc. I was driving mine on the weekend and it’s always been such a fantastic and fabulous weekend car for me I’ve owned it now for 7 years and have never had any issues, it’s low mileage too with only 50k klms. It’s serviced every year without fail. My car is near silent on idle perhaps some injector pulse yes but virtually silent. Yours does seem to have some noisy metallic sounds but it’s hard to discern over a video. Have they checked the oil condition? It might be timing chain tensioners ? But I’d be curious to see what it is as it’s such a low mileage car.
So are you going to find out or just sell it and keep the Z4?
Cheers from Sydney and like your channel mate.
Hello from England! I will get rid of the F12 by trying to return it permanently to the place I bought it, it is certainly not right. I will be keeping the Z4 as it is so much fun!
Timing chain + guides and adjuster on the noise.... z4 nice ❤
Z4=good, N63=bad!
Sounds like a chain is loose. This era of BMW’s have quite noisy HP fuel pump and injectors. But the whine noise is what I don’t like to be hearing. Maybe change the oil as a precaution… possibly a stuck tappet is also crying for help too. Could the oil be wrong type, or thinned out?
As the garage I bought the car from changed the oil I would suspect that is the problem!
E89 is such a nice looking car
It is!
Hi Tim - its popped its cherry. Group 1 BMW in Hindhead would know straight away. To me, it sounds like seized cam motor.
They would! I was there yesterday to pick up my E31's sunroof!
Hi Timm this is Alvin your number one fan. I don't know what wrong with the engine, but it sounds like it's sick.
ALVIN! You're back - great to hear from you!
Sound like a lack of oil circulation and it bearing wear or valve lifters.
I agree, something horrible happened to it!
Hopefully it will be a fix covered under the warranty (I understood it has warranty?) and I wonder if it's oil system issue, pump blocked/oil filter issue maybe? N63 doesn't have a dipstick I assume...the electronic read out can play up and take time to drop oil level (my f13 640d I don't trust but thankfully has a dipstick) so could it simply be low on oil?
It does have a warranty, but the garage says there is nothing wrong with it!
@TimmsBMWRepairsandInformation that's awful...however most companies now really try to protect their online reputation...so I would say might be worth sharing this video with them...or adding a link to the video on their Instagram site for example...or make a detailed Trustpilot review...you might find all of a sudden they change their stance as the public eye will be on them.
I had an N52 without a dipstick and the oil readings were a work of fiction :-(
I see North Star Sussex have your F12 back on their forecourt! Hopefully that means you have served that problem 😏
Shhh, don't mention the garage! All explained here: th-cam.com/video/T4l8Kl0Sblo/w-d-xo.html
Love the Z4. Hard to find a good one that hasn't been abused in the USA. Still looking!
I love mine my friend!
Oh dear…
Don’t know about the ticking, but the other sound actually sounds just like my rotary Honda lawnmower, when the blade is disengaged..that’s due to a worn roller bearing. Can’t believe, the BMW dealership concluded that was normal! Look forward to hearing the outcome.🤞
I agree, not in the slightest bit normal!
Sounds like temporary drop in oil pressure which could have led to camshaft lobe wear taking it outside tolerance parameters. Could be grit lodged in a hydraulic tappet? Or chain stretched or worn broken plastic chain guides? Certainly sounds unhealthy though!
I agree, it sounds expensive whatever it is!
Yeah. No expert but definitely sounds like a sticky tappet or possibly a broken valve spring ?. Hopefully not too seriously damaged.
Thanks, we will find out in the long run!
Now I wouldn't call a 3.0L straight six a tiny engine 😂. Certainly not by today standards. I'n sure you will enjoy it and the sound is very addictive. Shame about your 650i it is a really nice car.
You win some, you lose some! 3 Litre is quite a big engine, especially by UK standards - but I am used to the V8's, and I never wanted to go down in power from one car to the next, but, the Z4 is a revelation!
Exhaust manifold leak on the 650i perhaps?
Sounds a bit more mechanical than that
Leaking osv? At first I thought collapsed lifer until you had it revved over 3k so long.
I tried pumping the lifters at over 3000 RPM for an extended period and that made no difference. The car has gone now thank goodness!
@@TimmsBMWRepairsandInformation Def a weird one glad its not your problem anymore. ;)
Um did you buy the z ?? Sorry on a plane may have missed something... it does sound loud but they are noisy but it wasn't before and you could obviously tell a delta for want of a better word ... same engine as my old 750 ooh it like sounds normal but normal really loud
I did buy the Z4, I've had it for a couple of weeks and love it!
Good vlog again 👌. I'm guessing hydraulic tappet or timing chain tensioner?
Something expensive that's for sure!
I'm very sorry about 650i. I believe that sort of power from 650i or m6
Is not regular maintenance engine for normal use. It's full on motorsport and requires full on motorsport sport care and attention....with 650i I would start with oil analysis see what is oil condition...I doubt it that anyone touch this car to rebuild or fix it :(
I agree, this is not repairable!
Tim, i did mention this previously about this being a mistake. I would not touch any BMW with the N63 engine. They are by far the worst engine ever made. Too many issues with them and even a low mileage one like yours will still be a wallet busting exercise.
The previous 650 (N62) does have its issues but is much more easier to live with. Its shame you sold it.
Congrats on the Z4.
Thanks, love the Z4! The F12 is now long gone!
Timing chain guides?
Loss of oil pressure I reckon!
rod bearing?
Hello mate love your videos and your loyalty to BMW. I bought a 330i with N52 engine and I had tapping in the engine but this was a normal sound as the hydrolic lifters were not lubricated. The engine needed use...and I means lots of use so I would red line the car whenever I used it even on a short journey. This would then dampen the sound. Keep up the vids...love em!
Always my pleasure! The M62 V8's were famous for having tapping lifters - to the point where they sent out a bulletin on how to keep the engine over 3000 RPM for 30 seconds!
Real shame about the 650 the N63 is certainly not BMW's finest hour. There was a class action lawsuit in the USA! You really can't go far wrong with a straight 6! How about a 640?
Isn't the 'TU' version of the N63 meant to be more reliable?
Yes, there was TU1, TU2 and TU3, each an improvement on the former
sounds like oil pump chain and sprocket to me
Thanks!
What LEDs did you go with for the angel eyes Tim?
Here you go: amzn.to/3ZetK1b
I have just sold my bmw 650, it had 76000 and run silently, that sounds like its ready to blow !!
She canny take it captain is what springs to mind!
Good old N63 "reliability" it sound's expensive what ever it may be!
V.expensive!
Chain could've skipped a tooth.oil starvation,hyraulic tappets.
what ever it is it won't be cheap,shame as it did look nice.
Still the z4 does look nice though.
Thanks, I have grown very fond of the Z4 already!
Sounds like a lifter tapping or something at camshaft speed? It didn't sound very nice when you revved it up, it almost sounded 'endy'. I bet the noise suddenly wouldnt be normal if you were trying to trade her in🙄🧐
Yes, I tried pumping up the lifters by holding the revs high but it made no difference - and I agree, it sounds like rod bearings at some times!
The n63 sounds like stuck lifters making them tick because theyre not filling up with oil properly
I agree, possibly caused by low oil pressure at some point!
@ i just bought a 325 e90 with more or less ticking lifters and small oil consumption. Needs stem seals and I’ll probably clean the lifters and some point.
@@becomematrix If you have the earlier N52 2.5 it might be piston rings causing the oil consumption, known design flaw only on the 2.5. I had one and tried everything. It also had a sticking tappet I couldn't cure. Factory procedure is to warm it up and do 3000 rpm for three minutes in neutral to see if that clears the lifter. I sold mine and went back to an E46, much happier now.
@@unixnerd23yes I have the first gen 2.5. It runs well beside a little oil consumption. I will flush it soon and fill with new Castrol 5w40. I already changed the valve cover gasket and the related gaskets and found oil on the valvetronic plug…..
The e90 series drive really well compared to the e46 and e36 which I have driven for 8 years. The m52 engines are pretty goated when it comes to reliability and clean running. But the chassis had its drawbacks and didn’t give me much comfort on longer trips.
I will take out the vanos components and clean them and inspect the function of them.
The e46 platform is good but i have gone to hate rust and age related chassis problems.
The f30 would have been my choice but theyre ridiculously expensive considering potential engine failures…
@@becomematrix I was lucky got find a good E46 without much rust and I don't drive it in winter any more. Back in the day I ran snow tyres and often did 70 miles on compacted snow (I'm in Aviemore). I love the M54, my Z4 has one too. For me the E91 felt too big, more like a five series should be. It handled well but on the manual gearbox car the final drive ratio was all wrong, I'd have changed it if I'd kept the car. I went to 15w40 to reduce the oil consumption a bit, mine was mental. I think I was using a litre every 400 miles or less.
High, can I ask which halos you settled for, the choice is overwhelming?
No problem: amzn.to/3ZetK1b
My guess is HP pump and camshaft.
Thanks!
Sounds like a timing chain tensioner or high-pressure fuel pump tbh
Thanks!
its biggest problem is the letter "N" with "63" next to it.
You are not wrong there!
Any BMW engine with an N is front has a warning label!
Is this the same engine in the 2012 x5 50i
Believe so. I have a neighbor in Denmark with a 550i, 2012 model. He want to trade it in for a E64 Cab, but the dealers won't touch the 550.
It is, and what a reputation!
Time to jack up the radio on the F12 and put a new car underneath it methinks.
Z4 to the rescue!
I'm still enjoying the reliability of my E64. Not rubbing it in... honestly😂.
There you go then! I'm enjoying the Z4's N52 engine!
what about a e92 335i? don`t you like the 3 series coupe or the newer 4 series f32, or why not the M4?
e92 cars have serious and expensive fuel pump issues.
I really think the Z4 is my new hobby!
Sounds like money to me. I hated to hear you rev it. I thought it was gonna blow.
Well it's got that "warranty return magical insta fix" thing going on, may have been better to rev it til it was undeniably broken
Revving until entirely broken did cross my mind!
N63 had a bad lifter, could be due to oil starvation. Regardless N63 is a nightmare
I agree, it sounds like low oil pressure to me
Looks like you are realizing to regret the change of the E64 for the F12 and now get confused by an Z4... nevertheless, enjoy this nice roadster but the comparisons do not seem to be right for me though.
Thanks, you are probably not far off, but the F12 was just too perfect, nothing to fix on it! Love the Z4 though!
Now you REALLY look like Damon Hill 😄😁😆
I'm happy with that! I'll tell my wife, she cuts my hair
This is now for sale on Auto Trader…
Don't buy it!
Lack of oil changes valeo system contaminated
It's a gonner!
I’m confused,have you got rid of the F12 permanently? And bought the Z4 to replace it?
The F12 is still at the garage, to me it sounded terminal so I got a Z4!
@@TimmsBMWRepairsandInformationyou may be wise not to through more money at it but I don’t think I could leave it at this with finding out what it really is.
Hydraulic lifters,
Thanks, sounds like it doesn't it!
rod bearings
Thanks!
It does not sound right. Possibly timing chain, failing tensioner. Have just rebuilt an N47 that jumped the chain. Bent the valves and broke all the followers on the exhaust side. I was lucky it didn’t damage the cam carrier. Good luck.
PS the N47 had 60000 miles. Not very good BMW.
Thanks, I think my luck ran out on this one!
Sounds like a diesel, something way wrong there..
It sounds just like a diesel!
Looks like the car was driven with no oil or oil pressure. Than they fixed it with some snake oil before you purchased it. This engine is famous for oil consumption at a severe level. I think you need to new engine.
It's possible the car had pre-existing masked damage, but it did sound pretty sweet when Timm first got it. An oil starvation or oil pressure issue starving the hydraulic tappets, former of which may have led to cam love wear. Sounds dreadful and something is definitely worn or defective.
I agree with both, someing horrible happened to it!
at the mileage that car has done there should be nothing wrong with it !! oh dear !!!
Mileage means nothing if it's not been serviced properly. And a lot of post 2000 BMWs have been "maintained" with some absurdly long oil factory service intervals so even a full history isn't enough tbh.
It's been a problem for decades, my E34 has never got an oil change below 3/5 on the service indicator which would mean it would have me do it at around 15000kms. Crazy
I think the car spent its life poodling around brighton at 30 MPH and it was a great shock to it when it went a LOT faster!
He still won't buy a new miata lol.
I'm in it for the long run!
Buy a Lexus next and save yourself a lot of trouble As said lease a BMW buy a Lexus
You're not wrong there - but I do love a challenge!
Tim you are in England, get yourself a Jaguar forget BMW, i ditched me 650 for a xfr and and an XJ supersport, the difference is abysmal, i will never ever touch a bmw again.
JLR reliability is shockingly bad!! 😂. If you have a 3.0d in those two get ready for crankshaft failure 👍
@@germancarfan360 I think you don't know much about jags, there's no such thing as a 3.0d xfr or XJ supersport, I'm taking about the 5.0 and 3.0 supercharged engines AJ 126 and 133, can't beat the 510 hp supercharged v8 beast, puts a huge smile on your face.
They have been the most reliable and best cars I have ever owned, can't say the same thing about the bmw 650.
@@carlossaez9389 you edited your original comment!!!!! I can see your edits ;) so my comment was perfectly feasible!! and JLR quality is dreadful.
@@germancarfan360 sure nothing wrong fixing things that phone misspelled I don't see anything wrong with editing. Either way if you mistake or think and xfr has a 3.0 D, I believe there's not much to discuss.
I can speak from both sides owing bmw and jags.
When I started my journey into BMW's I first looked at a Jag - and went for the BMW E32 7-Series, I don't think that was the wrong choice, I've had fun with all of them!
Spark plugs backed out?
Apparently not, something much more expensive!