10 Reasons Not To Use Rust (The Whole Truth)
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 20 พ.ค. 2024
- Follow me on Mastodon: hachyderm.io/@fasterthanlime
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00:00 Intro
00:13 What's Rust?
00:49 Number 1
01:10 Number 2
01:35 Number 3
02:01 Number 4
02:27 Number 5
02:47 Number 6
03:10 Number 7
03:30 Number 8
03:50 Number 9
04:09 Number 10
04:34 Outro - วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
My boss sent me this and said that i should watch it before suggesting rust, However i think he should also watch it before he suggests the video :))
Haha
Does he have pointy hair?
@@jan10n no hairs. 🗿
maybe he was joking as well xD
Has he watched it yet? I really want to know his reaction
If I may add something more:
*The error messages are too helpful:* The error messages are too helpful, to the point where telling your boss you haven't managed to get any work done because you were trying to fix a compilation error is no longer a valid excuse.
Please enjoy the following deleted scene, straight from the original script:
Bad for job security, again: when you make a mistake the Rust compiler not only tell you where and why, but it also tells you how to fix it. Sometimes it will even offer to fix it itself! Mark my words: the machines are taking our jobs. I want you to look Duncan in the eyes and tell him: I'm sorry Duncan, the special compiler error intervention team has been downsized. Do you think Duncan wants to do feature work? No! Duncan is out of a job now. Woe is them, another victim of progress.
The true measure of a compiler's productivity is the number of lines of error messages it produces. Therefore my c++ compiler while I am writing templates simply puts the (frankly, lazy) rust compiler to shame.
I know right. Feels like the compiler loves me so much that it secretly wants to adopt me, and `Clippy` wants to cuddle me to death.
Too helpful indeed, the error messages are too clear and concise, you won't experience the amazing feeling and satisfaction of solving a cryptic puzzle.
@@fasterthanlime Uncanny, I read this in the voice of Duncan Farside
really makes you feel like you're a hacker news subscriber
Truly amazing list. Makes me glad to work at my corporate Java job. Checking every argument for null and copying every argument object I pass into a function because it could be mutated and that wouldn't be good puts hair on your chest!
@@vishnuc2682 Wow that sounds amazing! I think writing more code and exposing yourself to runtime errors really makes you the best programmer you can be! Nobody rides cycles with training wheels of course, so why would I want my programming language to tell me what to do?
Go sounds like the perfect language. I will make sure to look for a Go job if I decide not to retire in 40 years from my enterprise Java job.
I'm glad my wife doesn't code in Java.
hahaha u r absolutely right
lol JAVA
I got so incredibly mad and was about to write a 5 page essay debunking every single point until I realized it was a joke
if you get mad because someone is criticing a language you have a problem.
Then my work here is done. (I'm curious how long it took you to realize it was a joke though, just for my records).
@@jordixboy he got mad becouse he was criticising features as being bad. Like complaining that toast is too toasty and should be wet.
Edit: forgot too mention it’s just a theory and don’t get mad if I’m wrong
Wouldn't surprise me if there was a chatGPT API in Rust which could do that for you now
I laugh at null part lol its actually good that Rust inform you that a type is nullable or can be None since null refs are annoying to deal with
I've been trying out this rust thing and have been appalled at it not letting me get a segmentation fault! This is some draconian oppression!
Yes!! Also Rust doesn't let you get the bonus data. C does!
Also long-term exposure can lead to siderosis, a condition in which iron deposits build up in the lungs.
Worse, it can lead to gray matter deposits in the brain, and some people have extremely negative reactions to that.
Wrong type of rust I think? Rust is a fungus
@@zyansheep surely they meant to talk about the game?
@@zyansheep why do I see you everywhere Rust related xD. Hi fellow rkyvian
@@sw874 👋
I can't believe that someone finally adressed the fact that rust is a comunist language. Truly one of the lists of all time.
Given the number of LGBT members of the trust community, it really is the language of choice for Gay Space Communism.
@@angeldude101 everyone getting equal amounts of gay action? Sign me up
Communist language? You meant 白左?
@@angeldude101I, for one, welcome our new gay space communist overlords.
We should mention also that it's a great place for gender propaganda.
Job security is so real! I’m currently fixing bugs in Java that was written 20 years back! Imagine what would happen to developers like me and our families if they were written in rust
We are kidding here, but I remember watching a talk of some very serious developer back in 2014 about how Git was taking away a coworker's job who used to stay late chatting with them while fixing merging conflicts from Subversions.
It was surreal to watch someone try to actually use that argument. At that moment it dawned on me why some Software Engineering teams have been programming like it's the 2100s since 1950s while other teams couldn't progress pass the 1980s.
if you are lucky enough, rust developer can throug in a few reference cycles to leak memory and future generations to fix :P
@josh chong r/woooosh
@josh chong yes, printers suck
Can't thank you enough for your bravery in bringing this to light!
I'm just doing me job ^DF
@@fasterthanlime what about compatible code??? most of codes were written on c/c++, so no one can avoid to call unsafe funcs. furthermore, rust or no rust, but a lot of errors are hw-based. so, really - what does rust offer at the end of a day???
*muddy-maddy mix of rust+c/c++.*
no one will be writing truly rust codes w/ no c/c++ parts, because it's too pricey.
Great editing, great humour, great presentation. Best sub I've had in years
I like that you've used the proper spelling of "humour". Brings a little colour to this comment section.
@@fasterthanlimeCan't you find it in your heart to hate the Brits more than the Americans? All we ever did to you was not have your back after you helped out in the revolutionary war, and the occasional surrendering to the Nazis joke. The Brits have like a whole millennium of beef with you guys, you should be using the American spelling out of principle.
This was so deadpan that I spent the first minute wondering if you were seriously saying that. Brilliantly done and absolutely hillarious.
Yeah, the challenge with deadpan comedy is, you have to pay attention to recognize that it's comedy. If you're only half listening, you miss the point entirely.
Honestly, leaving a like for that "Can't spell progress without 'ogre'" joke.
I'm surprised how popular it is. It's the last thing I added to the script before shooting!
@@fasterthanlime Stop shooting people!
If they were to add support for null (it's a basic feature, crazy that they haven't thought of adding it), make the compiler messages much more cryptic, make it dynamically typed, and make all data mutable by default I think I'd be able to love it more. But currently it lacks the appeal of writing completely unsafe programs and the fact that I have to *tell it* what type I want a variable to be is such a bother.
That’s what makes us developers feel safe
Agreed. How else will I know I'm coding correctly if my program memory isnt as leaky as a rusty (uh non-rusty) bucket?
Exactly . It's 2023 for crying out loud and I still have to Explicitly Tell the type of my variable !? 😂😂
I was trying to figure out whether an option was just checking for nulls with extra steps the other day and its finally dawned on me that even though its basically the same thing, the value is actually in knowing whether a function needs nulls to account for some edge cases, or whether you can be sure they won't happen at all, its just guaranteeing no surprises.
i genuinly love this. you sir are a comedic genius
This was so great to watch! Finally, someone was brave enough to say something! Please keep up the great work!
Lol I think it was a joke 🤣
@@rob2theworld yea, my comment is as well 😭😭
@@emmavdev lol
in addition to the amazing jokes, impressive production quality: the intro/outro jingles and greenscreen setup are top notch!
This was the first contact I had with your channel and had no idea where I was
The first point was so stupid I wanted to rant and while writing a comment I overheard "support for null"
It was a critical hit
Once a month I will come here, watch the entire thing, and still laugh with joy.
Thank you
You've totally convince me to continue using Rust. Keep up the excellent work.
You totally got me here 🤣🤣🤣 Dammit I didn't expect so much sarcasm 🤣
Also, as a Rustacean, I love your two sentences:
"I don't know about you, but I'm getting sick of this constant barrage of propaganda about Rust. If you listen to them, it's the best thing since sliced bread."
Like, at this point, Rust propaganda even a meme, and seeing how it expands is quite funny.
Of course, whatever we say about any language, what's important is that for a new project, you take the language most suitable for it. Rust can simply not be the universal answer, that's why I see RIIR and Rust propaganda as a meme
Thanks for the info, very useful. I'm still not sure what direction I should take going forward, though. Pascal or Fortran?
Not having fancy bufferoverflow exploits prevents me from being a Rust fan too
great video :o
I found this video very entertaining, a number of parts had me laughing out loud. Very well done
Bingo ! Here you go . Thank you
You got me laughing so hard at "...lacks support for `null`" I missed the entirety of the rest of the video and had to watch it again
I was actually pretty excited to see this from you but this is hilarious lmao
I might make a serious one, but I'd need to find 10 reasons.
@@fasterthanlime >:)
just realized you said "C Octothorpe" and it's now killing me
"C-Octothorpe" - actual lol. actually constant lol so far
love this!
finally someone is brave enough to say things how they are
Duncan Farside is a menace, but the truth is the truth. Thank you for your public service.
Lovely intro/outro jingle as well. Makes me feel extra informed.
I will not answer questions on how long I spent composing the jingle unless my attorney is present.
@@fasterthanlime I didn't know that you made it. It sounds really nice. Did not have "Amos becomes a jingle maker" on my 2023 predictions list.
It's also really cool that you found the time and freedom to do this. Hope this new career path goes great for you. I've enjoyed your content for years and hope to be here for more.
I'm glad that I've watched full video and didn't gave up Rust so soon :D
I have a question. I just started learning Rust and (thankfully) so far, so good. I just saw a video by Sergio Benitez that came out in 2018 that said that it's impossible to do concurrent code in safe rust. Is this true? If so, that's shocking. I thought the whole *point* is that you have fearless concurrency because of the safety of the language. Maybe things have changed since 2018. I just wanted to ask since you know so much more than me: Is this true? Thanks!
Number 10 - zero memory safety vulnerabilities discovered because engineers are still trying to figure out why Rust code doesn't want to compile ; )
Nets more time for everyone, I call it a success!
Less shipped code = less production bugs. Ironclad equation
Hahaha this is so funny
Hahaha
I have to be honest though that I cannot find pure Rust jobs currently in Greece. Granted our market is quite small. However, even in Europe most jobs are using Rust as a supplemental language. It needs time obviously but I had to comment that job wise it is not that easy to find work. In many cases the role is for C/C++ with Rust as secondary option.
truly one of the videos of all time
All very accurate and valid points !
You're almost as sassy as Climate Town and I love it. More plz. Also, if you have any advice for someone about to burn out of the tech industry hankering for some rust I'm all ears/eyes.
I have a one thing to say that in serious my problem with rust is that is too slow for compile. Any program in C is so quickly to compile but the programs in Rust use too much time of my cpu. Is it normal?
Pitch perfect! Number 7 did blow my mind!
Hilarious! The best technical joke for New Year. Thanks for making laugh to the stomach
Good video, sarcasm could have been shrouded a bit more, so rust haters would've agreed with you. The same thing happened with Ben Awad in the TypeScript video.
So you may to tell me Ben has the same chair /and/ the same sense of humor?? We truly must meet
(Before I start, yes, I know the video is a joke)
Funnily enough, the job security point is kinda right. Most crates had their last update like 5 years ago at best, not because they are abandoned, but because they are finished. The rust compiler forced the crates to be perfect almost immediately after release, so there's nothing to work on anymore
Huh? Aren't all those arguments good?
oh wait i understand. Took a minute.
Hahahaha
I admit I was looking for actual cons of rust, but still a useful and funny video 😊
I know nothing of Rust, so I must acknowledge the incredible editing and tone of the video that you clued me in on what I was watching within the first 35 seconds.
Or it was the sliced bread.. Maybe that's why it's the benchmark :P
Being ancient, and having hit the metal with assembler, and later C, I'm having a lot of fun with Rust. Mostly on wee small things like Raspberry. The foot wounds are not as grave. (But I loved using C to hit the hardware. A frisson of danger)
awesome content as always 💯💯
I'm picking up your sarcasm, and I love it.
Brilliant!
That small "C octothorpe" joke really got me good.
Haha, this is great Amos. 😆
what did you call C# ?
I was watching this video because of my frustration after reading the "References and Borrowing" chapter on the rust-book.
More frustration after realizing what this video is about!
No option other than diving back into the next chapter.
I'm glad I was able to spot the direction of this video was almost immediately.
Watching this video early this morning absolutely made my day! (rookie Rust programmer)
Amazing video!
I believe it should be adopted by Rust and become an official "anti-Rust" video.
Thank you!
I thought proc macros were the best thing since &bread[..]
i havent written a single code in rust, so for first 2 points i was like hmm so this is the problem, then after it i became doubtful that is it really a problem and at the end, i understood it was a joke. or was it
Can you explain what bazel is and how it works
Gives me faith in humanity after that DG Opinion on Safety for ISO C++ article
That article was a waste of my time. So delusional. They really fail to see C++ from the point of view of someone new to the language about to learn the whole thing. They also fail that the single major problem of C++ that stops it solving its problems is that it has to remain backward compatible.
Just read the article. Uff... They sure are in denial.
@@ArgoIo Literally actual C++ developers know more than them lmao
@@ArgoIo My impression is that they are not so much in denial, as in panic mode. The problem with C++ is that it's almost unfixable, because it's foundation is very poor.
Thanks for enlighten me about the rust fasicsts! Everyone needs to know about this!!!!
Yes, those rust communists! They're just too hecking centrist!!
LMAO... Not gonna lie, you had me in the first half.
I'm interested in Rust, and having super-fast code does sound cool, but from the little I've experienced Rust is super-complicated (I really bounced off of it) and doesn't have the kindest/ most welcoming of communities. Any advice on how I should proceed?
I did struggle a bunch with Rust initially, which motivated me to start writing about it - you'll find tons of beginner-friendly material about it on my website, fasterthanli.me/
I struggled with it too and still somewhat do but the best way to learn it is just to use it. You shouldn’t have to fight the borrow checker if you already have good habits from other languages. It’s still not my favorite language, that would fall to C++, but God I hope it replaces Java in the near future.
You should put more effort into it, it will pay off. Rust has a pretty steep learning curve, I'll give it that, but it's not like Haskell which forces you into some paradigm that you cannot evade, so once you truly understand lifetimes and such, it will be no more difficult than any other similarly capable language. Or, alternatively, put Rust away for now, get a middle level of proficiency at C++ (should only take a few years), then realise that C++ is fast but sucks ass, and come back to Rust, which will now feel easy.
Regarding the community, you must be joking. It's one of the best. Often (>99% of the time) I don't even need to ask a question on the forums, because it has already been answered in detail with many great insights from various commenters on how to solve the problem even more idiomatically or efficiently.
There's a package called rustlings that you could try out
@@bytefu is your comment targeted at me?
After not liking Rust I went back to C. I actually realized that nobody actually needs memory management, just leak everything. Lifetimes are stupid.
You may want to learn GLSL, it can be even more satisfying.
Who needs any control of memory, just write code which is accidentally trying to fit 3 MB of data in 16 kB L1 cashe slot and get all of your data ovewrritten with zeroes.
No data - no problem.
I now write all my code using "cat my.exe" because who needs memory safety, or really any other form of protection from bugs?
@@kacperrutkowski6350 Also, almost no way to debug = no bugs to be found.
Love it!
I am just wondering how the author was able to stay all those 5 minutes with a straight face and not dying out of laughter
I got here through a click-bait title. I am on the fence about Rust but this was very helpful. Thanks.
This is great
But what people always forget when evaluating a computer language, are the ecosystem of available libraries. C++ is going to have MANY more good choices for library support. I don't really want to write those libraries myself. That's why I haven't switched to Rust.
Yeah, until you realize that most of those libraries are harder to use than just rewriting them.
@@SemiMono You don't really believe that, do you?
@@TheRealFFS I am exaggerating. That said, my experience using libraries in C++ was far more painful than any other language, to the point that I wouldn't even look for a library for simpler tasks, I would just do them myself. In other languages I would always look for a library before making my own.
@@SemiMono the same apply for rust but at least the language got nice tooling by default, but the library situation is kinda the same if not worse, no documentation or extremely barebones examples that do not go beyond an "hello world" example, and good luck trying to google for a solution, and dont get me started on rust fanatics making fun of java/c# devs for being verbose where in rust i have to write hundreds of lines for simple tasks where in java is a one liner... btw i speak from professional experience with rust...rust will never replace c++, can be something like a companion but not replacing, also keep in mind that c++ is also used because it comply with specification stanrdards for being used in specific domain (healthcare, pa, army), theres a reason its still widely used
@@sharkpyro93 Thanks for responding. Unfortunately (I think), I don't have any experience with rust libs. I struggle to see how the language and accompanying tooling wouldn't make it easier to find and use libraries (provided they exist) than in C++, but I don't have the actually hands on experience with rust to say.
Yes, some industries are very slow to adopt new standards, and I can't say rust has a dependable enough spec, though I also know the C++ spec is so convoluted that it's difficult to claim it has a "dependable" spec.
I have liked this video and subscribed.
Because of truth you have spoken.
kkkkkkkkkkkkkkk amazing thnaks
WRONG! Rust absolutely does support Null. Just use raw pointers everywhere like it's 1970s. It's not like there has been any progress in CS since then away...
Yeah but in Rust null is a function.. that's weak.
edit: it's actually /two/ functions
@@fasterthanlime Well, that's what you get when language lacks classes - it functions. Some commie propaganda nonsense if you ask me.
Fantastic! I was like "what? There are reasons not to?" LOL
This was amazing. I love you.
😂brilliant work
Okay, you've convinced me to learn Rust. How do I start?
take your pick from fasterthanli.me/tags/rust !
It's the condescending tone of videos like that stop me from using rust
I won't stand for the go slander, so I'm currently sitting down
Was hoping for some serious critique of the language, not just some ironic fanboying.
1:50 Are the exclamation marks in _info!_ and _warn!_ mandatory, indicating that they are external functions?
They are mandatory: that's how you invoke a macro. See doc.rust-lang.org/book/ch19-06-macros.html
Amazing, glad someone pointed out all these downsides
This guy just calls me out straight away. Fixing the same errors in Go all the time 😅
This is too good 😂😂😂
phew, i almost tried rust. thanks for giving me the whole truth. dodged a bullet there.
I didn't know rust did regression tests on all published crates. I'm impressed.
that point got me thinking too. BTW, npm might also do this - they show status for the package on installation, maybe it's a manual thing.
Hahahah!! Lovely video! Lots of fun
Yo you totally got me, satire at is finest 😅
This, more than anything else, convinced me to put on the Rust t-shirt.
I like that BBC morning news style stress accent approach
This is stupid, condescending and arrogant. I love it!
Had me sweating in the first half, ngl
Damn, I even read the "no progress without ogre" when I saw this on Reddit yesterday but still caught me completely off guard.
Loved the video.
I knew when I saw this that it would be incredibly sarcastic and I was not disappointed. Bravo.
Damn. You were too convincing at the beginning xD good piece of Satire
Like the video made me laugh few times,
just the #7
If I was a sociopath, this rust code of conduct would have been a blessing, to get rid of people in the way just by accusation or other ways of social engineering xD
Beautiful
legendary content