OMG, I thought I was just cursed and could not find a guitar that I could intonate perfectly. F**king chords are never all tune. Glad to know I'm not crazy.
I have a good ear for tuning and all these years I thought my guitars were needing adjustments. I was right..but I never would have guessed this would be the way to adjust them!
They should have that every guitar. The sustain is crazy. i know Allan Holdsworth would love to have that sustain. I would if that works for an acoustic.
I own two guitars with True Temperament frets (one Strat and one Les Paul) and it's made my life in a studio situation way easier! Now I don't have to worry about the problems with the B-string fucking up the B-C-D situation. The octaves are in perfect tuning and, as Vai said, the sustain has even improved. I'm even sometimes using a whole step detuning, and drop-D and it still works! There is NO difference when it comes to bending etc.
Bending the notes will be fine. It's true that bending on one of these frets will be slightly different sounding than bending on a straight fret, as the distances will be slightly off.. but it will be almost imperceptible (probably less perceptible than the out-of-tuneness of a straight fret guitar). If you're just bending by ear then you just bend to the spot that sounds right, it doesn't really make a different how many tenths of a milimeter more or less than normal you have to bend..
@6672rock as you decrease the length of a string (when you fret it) the frequency increase proportionally. But to hit a perfect semitone/tone away you may be a very small amount out on some strings with standard frets. The shape of the frets is to increase/decrease the length of the string when you fret it by a tiny amount more or less than with a straight fret, meaning the guitar will stay perfectly in tune as you go all the way up the neck. I'm pretty sure that's it.
Other then a very niche device that amplifies the input of a pickup, and re-routes back into the pickup to physically cause extra sustain, I'm not familiar with any other kind of effect that refers to itself as a sustain. The only ones I've seen called a sustainer, or have a sustainer function on them, are usually some sort of overdrive/distortion or compression, or mix of both. "Sustainer" to my knowledge simply refers to a group of effects that causes the duration of a sound to be longer, or seem to be longer. So any kind of compression (a compressor can obviously cut the duration of a sound too) overdrive/distortion (which is again based on compressing sounds) reverb, delay, tremolo etc - pretty much most guitar effects can increase sustain.
Barry SPeas You are right as far as sustainer is concerned - it makes sound long. But overdrives (also fuzz, boosters) give the characteristic sound mostly used by rock & blues groups. It works on different ways, e.f. using feedback and special shapes of accoustis signals on output - it results that guitar sounds slightly like violin or more harsh. Reverb effect is more like repeated echo.
Olly Yeung P.S.: Distortion/ovedrive (earlier called fuzz/boosters) : the output signal is mostly rectangular or triangular, rather than the usual curve for example.
Oh? Do show us then rather than tell us, good sir. Where's your in-depth video on equal temperament showcasing the extent of your knowledge? I'm intrigued to watch it.
There are ways to get around this. When using distortion and playing rock music there are unique ways to play regular chords and the intonation is correct.
does Vai still use these frets? just wondering because i'm planning a custom guitar build soon, and theres a LOT of hype over these things atm, but i'm worried it's just a fad
+Aaron Mifsud I don't understand your question. I feel that floating bridge stays in tune WAY better than fixed -- until you break a string and then you are hopelessly f-ed
+john meredith once tuned n locked a floyd is fine. they just take ages to tune n i feel you kind of have to "chase" the note while bending plus unison bends are never really in tune with the bass player. currently im loving my fixed bridges
+Aaron Mifsud i see. all valid points. i can tune pretty quick now, but the unison bend and relative pitch to other instruments is totally true. i actually play bass in my current band and i love having my guitar player play my ibanez floater cos his SG is constantly going out of tune
+Aaron Mifsud The overtones and undertones naturally created when you sound a note dont align with the way we tune our instruments. Our instrument is broken up into 12 notes, evenly spaced apart to make the octave true, but in reality, perfect intervals use fractions of the octave that are irrational, which means you cant accurately plot the point on the whole number system. Not only that, if you tune it to make one note and its fractions work, it isnt going to work with any other keys.
Was the fret wire just randomly twisted into squiggly shapes, or is there a method to how each piece of fret wire was shaped? Also, that electric/acoustic doubleneck concept was done before. I remember seeing an old pic of Slash with a Guild that had a 6-string electric on the bottom and a 12-string acoustic on the top.
The guitar that he is presenting is not "more in tune." it is tuned to a different system that is built on frequency ratios and physical properties of sound and is actually much older than equal temperament. the drawback is that in certain keys, like Ab, a major triad sounds extremely dissonant, so the possibility of transposing is quite limited.
I'm no Steve vai fan but I stumbled upon this and what he is saying is absolutely true. For the people saying it's bullshit and that they just tuned their guitar and every note is perfect, that's wrong. Your tuner is most likely cheap and not even chromatic. And you are probably aren't actually plugging the guitar straight into the tuner. Also acoustic are different to electrics when trying to intonate. Point is - you can intonate all day but after playing it all goes back out of tune again(aside from the open notes)
No acoustics are not at all different from electrics when intonating them, I build both and intonate both the same way, from the center of the 12th fret. I don't know if there is a post on here on how to intonate both. None are ever out of tune from bad intonation, look it up, I've intonated many guitar stores didn't get exact. There are other reasons a guitar goes out of tune besides inexact intonation.
Actually, he isn't the first to come up with the acoustic /electric double neck concept. Slash had Guild build him one in the early 90's, and as far as I know he was the first to do it. (someone please inform me if I'm wrong, I very well may be). Regardless, its still an awesome concept.
GuitarBuyer (UK based magazine) did a test (using SCIENCE! :D) on this a few years back. They concluded that while there is a difference, its so subtle that its not worth worrying about.
Just got myself a custom made True Temperament Strat - It makes my PRS SC245 sound like crap (tuning wise). Once you've tried TT you can never go back :)
What about open tunings and drop down tunings? I think the True Temperament system only works with the tuning it was designed for which is usually standard concert pitch.
Lots of wrong comments here. The guitar has lots of tuning issues that effect it from being in perfect EQUAL TEMERMENT. The way the frets on a regular guitar are placed using the Pythagoras formula does not take into account things such as harmonic content, strings get stiffer as they get shorter, pushing down on a string increses its tension, etc.The true temperment fret placement does by its nature take all these factors into account and gives you a guitar that is in perfect EQUAL TEMPERMENT TO YOUR EARS -its a WELL TEMPERED system for the guitar. For those who don't know: Perfect Equal temperment is not perfectly in tune. Perfectly in tune is called JUST TUNING. But as others have expalined it means you can only play in tune in one key. So compromise and use Equal temerment so we don't have this limitation. A piano is another example of a Well Tempered Equal Temperment Instrument.Beyond that all I can say is that regular guiars sound "edgy" due to their tuning issues and a properly tuned piano for example sounds "sweeter" and more musical because the notes are closer to being in perfect tune to your ears. The tuing of a piano sounds much more consistent than a regular guitar. If you play and haven't noticed this you need to work on your ear training and stop relying on an electric tuner (which aren't that accurate without offsets). These days there are lots of cheep apps you can download on your phone that will help train you on this.....
when bending notes you typically bend it to a specific pitch, half-step, full step, bendy frets would not make much of a difference with this technique.
interesting. i play a nylon string acoustic most of the time. and i always thought i just had picky ears because i could never get my guitar quite in tune...i need one of these! :D anyone know if they are particularly expensive?
the "out of tune" phenomenon to which steve refers is not exclusive to the guitar, nor is it the result of the guitar being a "screwed up instrument." it is a system of determining the intervals of notes within an octave known as equal temperament.
When you typed this out, did you think Steve Vai would see this comment? Or was it more like a prayer? There is no 'perfected method' on a regular guitar
All fine and good. Interesting concept, even though the human ear can't tell the difference. Don't get me wrong, improvement is always good, but I am not about to toss my vintage gtr's out over this. They sound just fine to me.
Same height, yes, but as you bend the string the distance to the bridge from the fret is slightly altered (since the distance isn't uniform for each fret). Of course, the purpose of the bend is to alter the note, so it may work anyway lol.
Sorry I don't fully understand this, I do relate in what Steve is saying between tuning to A chord then you find out the D chord is out of tune, I have experience this myself and couldn't understand why until now, so my question is what if you just tune the strings one by one openly not to any chord, what chord will be in tune? the A or the D?
Having to find a compromise between chords...D and A for example, when tuning a guitar always annoyed me. Particularly after doing it for years on even the most expensive guitars. 'why can't they get it right' I used to think often. Well now someone has got it right...I think my next guitar will be a squigly one.
@hullan666 - and the answer is - no you can't - theoretically and practically if you tune an open string to perfect pitch - most of the notes down the neck will differ from a few to many cents om some notes. Just a fact. You're fine with it - and I'm fine with it. A digital synth can play in perfect pitch - but not a guitar.
Hey Steve-o, next time ur feel ' n warm hearted, I'd go "GOOD-MENTAL" for a guitar! I've made JEMS by the floral pattern way, except I used an aqua Paisley cloth and abalone capped volume & tone knobs to match the abalone inlays on the neck. IMHO, awesome. But I love trying to write with alternate tunings. So the more guitars I have me more alternately tuned options I have when inspiration hits! Sound good? Groovy!
I don't see what's so surprising. Bolt-on's have the best sustain of any neck joint, but the difference is so minimal that the human ear can't discern it.
This really has nothing to do with just intonation. That's because just intonation only works in one key - you would need to retune the guitar for every key you are playing in. In any other key it will sound horrible. Let me give an example: If you tune to just intonation for C major, your major third, E, will be lower (than in 12 TET). Well, what happens if you want to play in the key of A major? Your fifth would be too low. And a just fifth is actually a bit higher than in 12 TET. Just intonation only works in one key. This is exactly why different tuning systems were invented. 12 TET was invented to make every key sound exactly the same. I guess on this guitar you can still play in any key, so I guess it's still in 12 TET. The regular guitar is just not a perfect design, even for 12 TET playing - the frets are not perfectly intonated, even if the intonation on the 12th fret is fine. In other words, it has nothing to do with the overtones. Overtone tuning = just intonation. It has to do with the fact that normal guitar is not perfectly intonated. It is close enough, not perfect. Oh yeah, and it should have nothing to do with single note sustain either. What we tune our A string to is a choice. We have just decided that 440 Hz = A. It could be any other frequency and it would not have any effect on sustain. But I do think if the chord you played was perfectly in tune, it might have a bit better sustain than a chord that was not perfectly in tune. But a single note can't be out of tune without a reference. But yeah, I don't think Vai is an expert when it comes to this kind of stuff. He's a phenomenal player, but I'm not sure if I would trust him when it comes to theoretical stuff like this.
Actually it does have to do with overtones. Just like the piano needs to be well tempered the guitar has the same issue. the frets are placed without any consderation for this. The major 3rd in a cowboy Dmaj chord is loaded with harmoic content that "rubs" on every guitar. Look at the second fret on the upper strings on Via's guiatar. Its obvious that there is a huge adjustment of those two notes. Harmoic content is probably the biggest reason.
2204JCM Erm... I don't think so. If you used an actual well temperament, it would make certain keys sound more out of tune than others (this is why people started using 12 TET - it makes all keys sound the same and it works). Guitar is normally not perfectly intonated for 12 TET (the design is flawed - the designer didn't take into account the different string thicknesses, but True Temperament fixes that). If it was, all major chords would sound equally in/out of tune - I mean, no major chord would sound worse than the others. But that's not the case. Certain chords sound more out of tune than others, even if you use your tuner to get the guitar perfectly in tune. Digital piano is in 12 TET and doesn't sound out of tune. There is nothing wrong with 12 TET.
+MaggaraMarine --- digital pianos:, there's nothing "wrong" with TET per say. And certainly our ears are used to it, but when singers harmonize and when orchestras play - they naturally tune their 3rds toward the "True major 3rd" that IS the 4th overtone of the tonic that they are harmonizing with. The TET 3rd is like 13 cents sharp - very significant. When i've added digital piano parts to songs before i've tried TET vs Just (or Werkmeister) and it really sounds a lot worse. But like you said -- if the songs modulates or uses accidentals you have to reset the key that you are tuned in.
john meredith Yeah. You can't really play in 12 TET by ear (unless you are playing with a pianist). Our ears automatically adjust the notes (if the instrument is capable of doing that). 12 TET is the best compromise we have (but it of course only applies to keyed/fretted instruments). Also, I don't think just intonation works that well for melodies (when playing them alone). Just intonation sounds great when playing harmonies. Though even then playing just a bit "out of tune" makes the sound richer. That's why the string section in the orchestra has so many musicians playing the same thing - everybody plays the same thing just a bit differently and that makes the sound more rich. This is also why on 12 string guitar you tune the two high E strings a bit out of tune (adds a "chorus" kind of sound), same with the two B strings. If they are exactly in tune, it doesn't sound as rich. That's also why in studio when you double track something, you don't just copy the same audio - you need to record it again. The slight differences in your playing make it sound richer.
+MaggaraMarine so refreshing to converse with someone on a youtube comment that is so knowledgeable and well-spoken! I agree with all you said -- and thanks for your insight about "melodies not really sounding better" in non-TET tunings; just the harmonies associated. That makes a lot of sense and i had never thought about it.
Steve, would have helped if you'd used less distortion, which masks the tuning discrepencies. If I have learned anything about tuning and guitar intonation, I have learned that you cannot the high and low "E" strings perfectly in tune. The "Stretch" (which you often hear piano tuners talk about) for a guitar requires that the high "E" be ever-so-slightly flat by just a few cents relative to the low "E". I have perfected a method which allows tolerable differences between C, E, and A chords.
Actually, common knowledge is that neck-thru has the best, while bolt-on has the worst. I've heard that if you do a bolt-on right though It has the best.
@hullan666 A "well known fact" as you see it. I can intonate mine just fine. Been doing it for over 35 years. Luthiers have been doing it for centuries. The human ear is not a lab scope, so no worries. Regular frets work fine. saying they don't is a lie.
People claiming that this is bullshit don't seem to understand chords and temperament... The frequency ratio of major and minor thirds depends on the temperament, and a normal guitar uses the equal temperament. That means that the octave is split in twelve equal parts. Pure temperament(s) split the octave in integer ratios, yielding integer ratios for the intervals and thus a more harmonic sound. You can't have that with even fret spacing for every interval, though, and that's where true temperament frets come into play. Equal temperament is fine most of the time, but if you do have a trained ear you notice that chords will always sound slightly dissonant. Normally one doesn't even notice it, but once you hear equal and pure temperament side by side it's really quite clear. Yeah, these frets are overkill for most players, but I think especially for classical guitarists they could make quite a difference.
This is bullshit, and I don't think that you understand temperament. In equal temperament, major thirds are 1.2599, heard as 1.25. In pure temperament, major thirds are 1.266 (81/64, up 4 fifths, down 2 octaves), which is actually much worse. If you try to correct that by bending the frets the other way, the fifths inside the chord become worse. Keep in mind, 1.498 isn't a bad perfect fifth (equal temperament). Also, these guitars are only suitable for one key in one tuning.
letmepointout I'm confused, I've seen two people say that you can only play in one tuning. If the system is based on string gauges, then why would a different tuning change anything?
i'm struggling to get my head around it, but if this gets you to a reasonable compromise, let's say similar to that of a piano, surely it's preferable to straight frets...?
The whole point is to be able to play chords up high on the neck. Anyone who has played a guitar beyond just the standard open and barre chords knows you can't play an A chord at the 17th fret and make it sound good. You're just used to it sounding "guitar-y" when you play chords up that high.
![[Guitar Vlog] I played a weird guitar - ft. Adam Neely](/img/n.gif)
OMG, I thought I was just cursed and could not find a guitar that I could intonate perfectly. F**king chords are never all tune. Glad to know I'm not crazy.
www.truetemperament.com/products/
th-cam.com/video/-penQWPHJzI/w-d-xo.html
@@StratMatt777 Not perfectly in tune either.
@@Pe6ek :) Oh good! Good thing I cant afford it!
I have a good ear for tuning and all these years I thought my guitars were needing adjustments. I was right..but I never would have guessed this would be the way to adjust them!
That true temperment is brilliant. Long time coming.
screw it i'll just go fretless
yes i will
wait if i'm going to sound like shit all over again i think i'll skip on the privilege HAH! but i like the concept.
It's not really too different if you're good enough, especially if you have markers
my fretless rlckenbacker bass ls AMAZlNG.
CHEAP to just rip out the frets and fill them in!
except you can't play traditional chords. better get a slide and learn slide guitar if your going fretless.
its rare to see steve without a delay on his sound.love to hear him dry into a good amp on old strat..i want one of these necks there dam expensive
CAPO, steve vai, sos un maestro, y el loco que invento esos trastes es UN GENIO con todas las letras. QUIERO UNA DE ESAS !!! :'(
They should have that every guitar. The sustain is crazy. i know Allan Holdsworth would love to have that sustain. I would if that works for an acoustic.
I don't get his explanation of it, but that is some unreal sustain he's getting.
I own two guitars with True Temperament frets (one Strat and one Les Paul) and it's made my life in a studio situation way easier! Now I don't have to worry about the problems with the B-string fucking up the B-C-D situation. The octaves are in perfect tuning and, as Vai said, the sustain has even improved. I'm even sometimes using a whole step detuning, and drop-D and it still works! There is NO difference when it comes to bending etc.
How much does it cost tho? I don't plan on getting one any time soon but eventually.
Bending the notes will be fine.
It's true that bending on one of these frets will be slightly different sounding than bending on a straight fret, as the distances will be slightly off.. but it will be almost imperceptible (probably less perceptible than the out-of-tuneness of a straight fret guitar).
If you're just bending by ear then you just bend to the spot that sounds right, it doesn't really make a different how many tenths of a milimeter more or less than normal you have to bend..
that was hell of a sustain!!
Steve Vai: “💁🏻♂️”
Who would of knew 14 years later he wouldn't just perform a song on 2 but 5!
steve vai is a really great guy.
@6672rock as you decrease the length of a string (when you fret it) the frequency increase proportionally. But to hit a perfect semitone/tone away you may be a very small amount out on some strings with standard frets. The shape of the frets is to increase/decrease the length of the string when you fret it by a tiny amount more or less than with a straight fret, meaning the guitar will stay perfectly in tune as you go all the way up the neck.
I'm pretty sure that's it.
It is said that if Vai had held his sustain, it would still ring.
I think you are talking about the guitar Slash has from Guild that green one. Its awesome and I hope to have one like it in the future
creeppy flawless guitar.... I like it :)
What a nightmare for a luthier.
*plays note saturated with overdrive and reverb* "I don't have a sustainer or anything"
Overdrive and reverb are something completely different than sustainer and don't give the effect of the susteiner.
Other then a very niche device that amplifies the input of a pickup, and re-routes back into the pickup to physically cause extra sustain, I'm not familiar with any other kind of effect that refers to itself as a sustain. The only ones I've seen called a sustainer, or have a sustainer function on them, are usually some sort of overdrive/distortion or compression, or mix of both.
"Sustainer" to my knowledge simply refers to a group of effects that causes the duration of a sound to be longer, or seem to be longer. So any kind of compression (a compressor can obviously cut the duration of a sound too) overdrive/distortion (which is again based on compressing sounds) reverb, delay, tremolo etc - pretty much most guitar effects can increase sustain.
Barry SPeas You are right as far as sustainer is concerned - it makes sound long. But overdrives (also fuzz, boosters) give the characteristic sound mostly used by rock & blues groups. It works on different ways, e.f. using feedback and special shapes of accoustis signals on output - it results that guitar sounds slightly like violin or more harsh. Reverb effect is more like repeated echo.
Greetings fellow purples.
Olly Yeung P.S.: Distortion/ovedrive (earlier called fuzz/boosters) : the output signal is mostly rectangular or triangular, rather than the usual curve for example.
The system is a way to get every fret in perfect tune, regardless of what string it's being played on. that's impossible with straight frets.
for some reason his chords on the double kneck reminded me of 2112
u da best!
Cool video. Thanks for sharing.
I'll never play as good as Steve Vai, but let me tell you how I know more about equal temperament than he does.
Go on
@@michelthegreatable he must be dead
Vaz definitely dead
Well, were waiting...
Oh? Do show us then rather than tell us, good sir. Where's your in-depth video on equal temperament showcasing the extent of your knowledge? I'm intrigued to watch it.
There are ways to get around this. When using distortion and playing rock music there are unique ways to play regular chords and the intonation is correct.
And in 2022, he came out with his Hydra guitar
I want one of those guitars with the accoustic on the top electric on bottom... that will be my next guitar build.
I don't know about the chords being in perfect pitch, I kinda miss the slow beating in regular guitars. But that sustain is sick!
does Vai still use these frets? just wondering because i'm planning a custom guitar build soon, and theres a LOT of hype over these things atm, but i'm worried it's just a fad
@incongra lol a good ear can still tell when somethings in tune no matter how distorted, distortion is not a pitch shifter mate
@guuiddoo you're right...he's even used it live a few times...made for him by Guild sometime in the nineties, if i remember correctly.
How can someone be so full on about frets n tuning but have a floating bridge?????
+Aaron Mifsud I don't understand your question. I feel that floating bridge stays in tune WAY better than fixed -- until you break a string and then you are hopelessly f-ed
+john meredith once tuned n locked a floyd is fine. they just take ages to tune n i feel you kind of have to "chase" the note while bending plus unison bends are never really in tune with the bass player. currently im loving my fixed bridges
+Aaron Mifsud i see. all valid points. i can tune pretty quick now, but the unison bend and relative pitch to other instruments is totally true. i actually play bass in my current band and i love having my guitar player play my ibanez floater cos his SG is constantly going out of tune
+Aaron Mifsud The overtones and undertones naturally created when you sound a note dont align with the way we tune our instruments. Our instrument is broken up into 12 notes, evenly spaced apart to make the octave true, but in reality, perfect intervals use fractions of the octave that are irrational, which means you cant accurately plot the point on the whole number system. Not only that, if you tune it to make one note and its fractions work, it isnt going to work with any other keys.
+Totally Tubular indeed!
Was the fret wire just randomly twisted into squiggly shapes, or is there a method to how each piece of fret wire was shaped? Also, that electric/acoustic doubleneck concept was done before. I remember seeing an old pic of Slash with a Guild that had a 6-string electric on the bottom and a 12-string acoustic on the top.
Love the concept with the double neck, would be interesting to know why he doesn't use the true temperament neck anymore though.....
The guitar that he is presenting is not "more in tune." it is tuned to a different system that is built on frequency ratios and physical properties of sound and is actually much older than equal temperament. the drawback is that in certain keys, like Ab, a major triad sounds extremely dissonant, so the possibility of transposing is quite limited.
a guitar for the ocd
@@xxdfoster being in tune is not kind of sort of important. It's very important. So, no it's not an ocd thing.
@@b-sideplank not really almost all musical instruments are "out of tune", in some way or another
@@bgm9517 You are right. Which instrument you would say is most in tune, and has the most efficient mechanical structure?
Saqib Sarker the harmonic since it’s diatonic , they are tuned to just intonation
"And we'll have a double neck party" Steve knew how to had fun in the old days
2009 wasn't "the old days" 🤷♂️🤣
I'm no Steve vai fan but I stumbled upon this and what he is saying is absolutely true. For the people saying it's bullshit and that they just tuned their guitar and every note is perfect, that's wrong. Your tuner is most likely cheap and not even chromatic. And you are probably aren't actually plugging the guitar straight into the tuner. Also acoustic are different to electrics when trying to intonate. Point is - you can intonate all day but after playing it all goes back out of tune again(aside from the open notes)
No acoustics are not at all different from electrics when intonating them, I build both and intonate both the same way, from the center of the 12th fret. I don't know if there is a post on here on how to intonate both. None are ever out of tune from bad intonation, look it up, I've intonated many guitar stores didn't get exact. There are other reasons a guitar goes out of tune besides inexact intonation.
Cvetan Nedqlkov is not the only one who plays an instrument like that, I've seen Slash holding one and it was the same.
Actually, he isn't the first to come up with the acoustic /electric double neck concept. Slash had Guild build him one in the early 90's, and as far as I know he was the first to do it. (someone please inform me if I'm wrong, I very well may be). Regardless, its still an awesome concept.
He's not at all. Malmsteen is that kind of guy, Steve is so humble! I actually had the luck to meet him and trust me he's such a nice and polite guy.
GuitarBuyer (UK based magazine) did a test (using SCIENCE! :D) on this a few years back. They concluded that while there is a difference, its so subtle that its not worth worrying about.
Just got myself a custom made True Temperament Strat - It makes my PRS SC245 sound like crap (tuning wise). Once you've tried TT you can never go back :)
What about open tunings and drop down tunings? I think the True Temperament system only works with the tuning it was designed for which is usually standard concert pitch.
Lots of wrong comments here. The guitar has lots of tuning issues that effect it from being in perfect EQUAL TEMERMENT. The way the frets on a regular guitar are placed using the Pythagoras formula does not take into account things such as harmonic content, strings get stiffer as they get shorter, pushing down on a string increses its tension, etc.The true temperment fret placement does by its nature take all these factors into account and gives you a guitar that is in perfect EQUAL TEMPERMENT TO YOUR EARS -its a WELL TEMPERED system for the guitar. For those who don't know: Perfect Equal temperment is not perfectly in tune. Perfectly in tune is called JUST TUNING. But as others have expalined it means you can only play in tune in one key. So compromise and use Equal temerment so we don't have this limitation. A piano is another example of a Well Tempered Equal Temperment Instrument.Beyond that all I can say is that regular guiars sound "edgy" due to their tuning issues and a properly tuned piano for example sounds "sweeter" and more musical because the notes are closer to being in perfect tune to your ears. The tuing of a piano sounds much more consistent than a regular guitar. If you play and haven't noticed this you need to work on your ear training and stop relying on an electric tuner (which aren't that accurate without offsets). These days there are lots of cheep apps you can download on your phone that will help train you on this.....
Slash had a acoustic/electric double guitar in the 90s, you can see it in estranged
All that sustain on a BOLT-ON BASSWOOD GUITAR FROM IBANEZ!? Holy shit.
Slash had the first acoustic and electric guitar called the goliath
@vasili3006 he was talking about different guitars
@TommittajaFIN
then try fretting lightly on the lower frets. you'll notice it won't be sharp
What happens when you bend a note? And how does it feel when you bend a note?
th-cam.com/video/uBINGNIFnGI/w-d-xo.html
when bending notes you typically bend it to a specific pitch, half-step, full step, bendy frets would not make much of a difference with this technique.
interesting. i play a nylon string acoustic most of the time. and i always thought i just had picky ears because i could never get my guitar quite in tune...i need one of these! :D
anyone know if they are particularly expensive?
until you meet him your opinion doesn't matter to anyone else.
Is that a fender supersonic amp in the background.
The acoustic/electric actually has been done by slash before.
the pitch of the background fuzz is so close to that B he is playing in 2:28 its like it's doing it on purpose.
the "out of tune" phenomenon to which steve refers is not exclusive to the guitar, nor is it the result of the guitar being a "screwed up instrument." it is a system of determining the intervals of notes within an octave known as equal temperament.
O.o the sustain...
i dont think that bending strings will be an issue thats ifthe frets are at even hight?
did u turn on the volume?
I think it's because he just got the guitar, as he said, and isn't used to the slightly different frets.
When you typed this out, did you think Steve Vai would see this comment? Or was it more like a prayer? There is no 'perfected method' on a regular guitar
0:53 "They have this concept that the guitar is kind of a screwed up instrument- and it is" you have to tune to the chords, not the open strings....
All fine and good. Interesting concept, even though the human ear can't tell the difference. Don't get me wrong, improvement is always good, but I am not about to toss my vintage gtr's out over this. They sound just fine to me.
Same height, yes, but as you bend the string the distance to the bridge from the fret is slightly altered (since the distance isn't uniform for each fret). Of course, the purpose of the bend is to alter the note, so it may work anyway lol.
Sorry I don't fully understand this, I do relate in what Steve is saying between tuning to A chord then you find out the D chord is out of tune, I have experience this myself and couldn't understand why until now, so my question is what if you just tune the strings one by one openly not to any chord, what chord will be in tune? the A or the D?
Having to find a compromise between chords...D and A for example, when tuning a guitar always annoyed me. Particularly after doing it for years on even the most expensive guitars. 'why can't they get it right' I used to think often. Well now someone has got it right...I think my next guitar will be a squigly one.
Did you buy one?
@@vintagesoul5146 can't afford the $900 for a TT fret neck... I'd rather make one.
so what happens when you want to bend a note?
does he currently use the true tempernment
Slash did the acoustic electric double neck guitar. I think it was a green guild.
@hullan666 - and the answer is - no you can't - theoretically and practically if you tune an open string to perfect pitch - most of the notes down the neck will differ from a few to many cents om some notes. Just a fact. You're fine with it - and I'm fine with it. A digital synth can play in perfect pitch - but not a guitar.
144p coming at ya! Not a problem for Steve, but finding a tech to work on those frets would be hard if you have issues in the future.
would be great if Ibanez made it an option on the Jem
@mikedg18 Yeah...He pulled that one straight out his ass, he was asked on the spot and just answered. Cant blame him!
It´s the future... shame ppl are so close minded... it´s science... pure magic... and the patterns of the fret are alien like.. amazing
can u bend the strings on a guitar with True Temperament?
Hey Steve-o, next time ur feel ' n warm hearted, I'd go "GOOD-MENTAL" for a guitar!
I've made JEMS by the floral pattern way, except I used an aqua Paisley cloth and abalone capped volume & tone knobs to match the abalone inlays on the neck. IMHO, awesome. But I love trying to write with alternate tunings. So the more guitars I have me more alternately tuned options I have when inspiration hits!
Sound good? Groovy!
GIT/AIM 89
I don't see what's so surprising. Bolt-on's have the best sustain of any neck joint, but the difference is so minimal that the human ear can't discern it.
It never seemed to bother Segovia, Julian Bream, John Williams etc etc. They sound pretty good to my ears.
Just barely good, not great though.
@vasili3006 it's different guitars
i think slash did the acoustic/electric double neck first with the guild crossroads
Of course it had to be Steve freaking Vai.
This really has nothing to do with just intonation. That's because just intonation only works in one key - you would need to retune the guitar for every key you are playing in. In any other key it will sound horrible. Let me give an example: If you tune to just intonation for C major, your major third, E, will be lower (than in 12 TET). Well, what happens if you want to play in the key of A major? Your fifth would be too low. And a just fifth is actually a bit higher than in 12 TET. Just intonation only works in one key. This is exactly why different tuning systems were invented. 12 TET was invented to make every key sound exactly the same. I guess on this guitar you can still play in any key, so I guess it's still in 12 TET. The regular guitar is just not a perfect design, even for 12 TET playing - the frets are not perfectly intonated, even if the intonation on the 12th fret is fine.
In other words, it has nothing to do with the overtones. Overtone tuning = just intonation. It has to do with the fact that normal guitar is not perfectly intonated. It is close enough, not perfect.
Oh yeah, and it should have nothing to do with single note sustain either. What we tune our A string to is a choice. We have just decided that 440 Hz = A. It could be any other frequency and it would not have any effect on sustain. But I do think if the chord you played was perfectly in tune, it might have a bit better sustain than a chord that was not perfectly in tune. But a single note can't be out of tune without a reference.
But yeah, I don't think Vai is an expert when it comes to this kind of stuff. He's a phenomenal player, but I'm not sure if I would trust him when it comes to theoretical stuff like this.
Actually it does have to do with overtones. Just like the piano needs to be well tempered the guitar has the same issue. the frets are placed without any consderation for this. The major 3rd in a cowboy Dmaj chord is loaded with harmoic content that "rubs" on every guitar. Look at the second fret on the upper strings on Via's guiatar. Its obvious that there is a huge adjustment of those two notes. Harmoic content is probably the biggest reason.
2204JCM
Erm... I don't think so. If you used an actual well temperament, it would make certain keys sound more out of tune than others (this is why people started using 12 TET - it makes all keys sound the same and it works). Guitar is normally not perfectly intonated for 12 TET (the design is flawed - the designer didn't take into account the different string thicknesses, but True Temperament fixes that). If it was, all major chords would sound equally in/out of tune - I mean, no major chord would sound worse than the others. But that's not the case. Certain chords sound more out of tune than others, even if you use your tuner to get the guitar perfectly in tune.
Digital piano is in 12 TET and doesn't sound out of tune. There is nothing wrong with 12 TET.
+MaggaraMarine --- digital pianos:, there's nothing "wrong" with TET per say. And certainly our ears are used to it, but when singers harmonize and when orchestras play - they naturally tune their 3rds toward the "True major 3rd" that IS the 4th overtone of the tonic that they are harmonizing with. The TET 3rd is like 13 cents sharp - very significant. When i've added digital piano parts to songs before i've tried TET vs Just (or Werkmeister) and it really sounds a lot worse. But like you said -- if the songs modulates or uses accidentals you have to reset the key that you are tuned in.
john meredith
Yeah. You can't really play in 12 TET by ear (unless you are playing with a pianist). Our ears automatically adjust the notes (if the instrument is capable of doing that).
12 TET is the best compromise we have (but it of course only applies to keyed/fretted instruments).
Also, I don't think just intonation works that well for melodies (when playing them alone). Just intonation sounds great when playing harmonies. Though even then playing just a bit "out of tune" makes the sound richer. That's why the string section in the orchestra has so many musicians playing the same thing - everybody plays the same thing just a bit differently and that makes the sound more rich. This is also why on 12 string guitar you tune the two high E strings a bit out of tune (adds a "chorus" kind of sound), same with the two B strings. If they are exactly in tune, it doesn't sound as rich.
That's also why in studio when you double track something, you don't just copy the same audio - you need to record it again. The slight differences in your playing make it sound richer.
+MaggaraMarine so refreshing to converse with someone on a youtube comment that is so knowledgeable and well-spoken! I agree with all you said -- and thanks for your insight about "melodies not really sounding better" in non-TET tunings; just the harmonies associated. That makes a lot of sense and i had never thought about it.
Where can I purchase this guitar?
0:44 in this interview is quite an enthusiast of this fretting system: does anyone know why you don't really see him with a TT fretted guitar anymore?
Perhaps Ibanez did not like it...? Since they don't make the necks and it implies that the stock JEMs are deficient?
and what if you bend the string??
the way the notes work with the overtones? what the hell is he talking about?
it's all about the finger pressure
and what about the compensated nut?
2:28 2:38!!!!impresionante!!!
2:30 why was it sustaining for so long, was it because of his guitar or feedback from the amp. cause every guitar player crave for that sustain.
Wow. How can I get one of his guitars as a gift? O_O
Steve, would have helped if you'd used less distortion, which masks the tuning discrepencies. If I have learned anything about tuning and guitar intonation, I have learned that you cannot the high and low "E" strings perfectly in tune. The "Stretch" (which you often hear piano tuners talk about) for a guitar requires that the high "E" be ever-so-slightly flat by just a few cents relative to the low "E". I have perfected a method which allows tolerable differences between C, E, and A chords.
Actually, common knowledge is that neck-thru has the best, while bolt-on has the worst. I've heard that if you do a bolt-on right though It has the best.
@hullan666 A "well known fact" as you see it. I can intonate mine just fine. Been doing it for over 35 years. Luthiers have been doing it for centuries. The human ear is not a lab scope, so no worries. Regular frets work fine. saying they don't is a lie.
@vasili3006 Erm, they're different guitars mate.
People claiming that this is bullshit don't seem to understand chords and temperament... The frequency ratio of major and minor thirds depends on the temperament, and a normal guitar uses the equal temperament. That means that the octave is split in twelve equal parts. Pure temperament(s) split the octave in integer ratios, yielding integer ratios for the intervals and thus a more harmonic sound. You can't have that with even fret spacing for every interval, though, and that's where true temperament frets come into play. Equal temperament is fine most of the time, but if you do have a trained ear you notice that chords will always sound slightly dissonant. Normally one doesn't even notice it, but once you hear equal and pure temperament side by side it's really quite clear. Yeah, these frets are overkill for most players, but I think especially for classical guitarists they could make quite a difference.
This is bullshit, and I don't think that you understand temperament. In equal temperament, major thirds are 1.2599, heard as 1.25. In pure temperament, major thirds are 1.266 (81/64, up 4 fifths, down 2 octaves), which is actually much worse. If you try to correct that by bending the frets the other way, the fifths inside the chord become worse. Keep in mind, 1.498 isn't a bad perfect fifth (equal temperament). Also, these guitars are only suitable for one key in one tuning.
letmepointout I'm confused, I've seen two people say that you can only play in one tuning. If the system is based on string gauges, then why would a different tuning change anything?
i'm struggling to get my head around it, but if this gets you to a reasonable compromise, let's say similar to that of a piano, surely it's preferable to straight frets...?
fredmachine YOU don't understand temperament. A "true temperament" guitar uses equal temperament.
The whole point is to be able to play chords up high on the neck. Anyone who has played a guitar beyond just the standard open and barre chords knows you can't play an A chord at the 17th fret and make it sound good. You're just used to it sounding "guitar-y" when you play chords up that high.
as much as i hate to admit it... thats true
Give me a guitar!!! JEEPERS! GOLLY GEE WIZ! I've made a beautiful floral "style" JEM but is has aqua paisley cloth under the clear coat.
2:29 You can go have a bite and...
Hahahaha
This one goes to 11 🤣