Here’s the corrections I wrote down last time for the good people watching this in posterity, and thanks once again Luke for inviting me here! *I mention Georgian chanting/singing early on, but I meant Gregorian, silly mistake on my part. *I later mention that we don’t know the Seikilos Epitaph’s mode, but I was confusing this with another historical piece, and the confusion regarding the Seikilos epitaph is one of nomenclature: we know what the melody was, we’re just not sure what that mode was named within the Ancient Greek tonos system.
No way bro I literally have all your best Byzantine ones in a playlist so I can LARP in Total war properly😂. Keep it up bro Dance of Akritai gives me goosebumps everytime it plays!
One more. Greek music very often ignores the stress accent. Probably every song. Sinefiasmeni kiriaki which is extremely popular is a perfect example. Love your vids
@@bouzoukiman5000 that happens with the relatively modern songs, my understanding is that as we go back the stress accent is more tied to the music. @faryafaraji I'd like to send you a proof of concept for such a song, would that be ok?
There are at least 20 DRASTICALLY DIFFERENT regional Bulgarian musics, and NONE of them sound Indian or Arabic. Some of them sound common with old Greek/Turkish. Some can sound common with old Breton music, even with old Gaelic music (not the Viking influence ones).
Faraji’s Narses song gives me impossibly good luck when making dice rolls. I have no idea how it does this, but it just works and I have decided not to question it.
I bumped into Farya's channel without even spotting this video. So glad you two found each other! The work you two are doing tickles my history bone and is great help with worldbuilding.
Since covid I had lost interest in the things I once loved. Hearing you guys speaking language and music was a piece of the Aeonic reaching this isolated Koala in this frigid dystopic NYC. Grazie Lucca ! ❤❤❤❤
As Greek , i must say that Farya impressed me with his knowledge in ancient Greek music. Ancient Greek music style was more modal. And the modal scales were descending , not ascending like today. There were 7 modes ( tones ) . Ionian , Lydian , Mixolydian , Doric , Aeolian , Locric , Frygian . All tones had their Ethics , their type of sound , and were used in many occasion , like triumphs, laments , rituals etc. The scales was combined by the conection of the modes , trichords or tetrachords , which leads us to Byzantine Octaechos and nowadays middle - eastern - Arabic music and the maqaams . As the same way . Well done Farya .
I'm fascinated by Mr. Faraji explaining his Mazandarani heritage. I'm French Canadian from Northern Ontario (where the French sounds a bit different from Quebec), with some Métis roots and close familiarity with both Métis and Cree traditions --- including lots of First Nations music. For several years, I worked in a dental laboratory in Toronto. The owner/manager was French Canadian, and we had many French speaking customers. The staff was the usual Toronto mixture of people from many lands, but there was a core group of technicians who spoke Farsi. One was from Tehran, long in Toronto, and spoke English with no accent, and French with a slight one. One was from Isfahan, though descended from the Ukrainians who migrated to Iran several generations ago. Another was an Azeri who grew up speaking Farsi but retained his Azeri and also spoke some Kurdish. Another was an Afghan who spoke Dari, but she could switch gears to sound more Farsi to accommodate the others. We briefly also had a Tadzhik speaker who only seemed comfortable talking to the Afghan. Over many lunchroom conversations, I learned quite a bit about the complexities of the Iranic world, in addition to the books I had read since I had a childhood fascination with the Achaemenids. I was aware of Mazandaran, and knew the basic things that Mr. Faraji said about its distinctive geography, but had never heard someone of that background discussing it. I have long been curious about that distinctive place. The idea that the person explaining it to me would also be able to understand things in my own heritage --- such as the distinct features that make Métis music distinct in its matrix of Cree, Ojibway, Dené, French Canadian, Highland Scot, Irish and Orcadian influences. . . well that completely blows me away. And he knows Inuit music, too!!! . . . This two hour-long conversation seems way too short for me. I wish it was three times as long. . . . PS - Is Mr. Faraji familiar with the music of the Canadian composer Christos Hatzis?
Holy, that was a long read... What caught my interest is the Azeri who you said also spoke some Kurdish, if I had to guess he would be from West Azerbaijan province of Iran where there's also a minority of Kurds. Cities like Khoy, Urmia and Mahabad.
@@aliazarmehralparslan6067 Yes, indeed. Childhood in some small place north of the lake, then educated in Tabriz. I got the impression that he considered Tabriz to be his true "home town." He definitely preferred the city to the country, and made a big deal about missing the chocolates of Tabriz. I can't ask for clarification, as it's been years since I worked there, and I've lost track of people.
Seeing them team up to share knowledge was so cool! y'know what I'd love to see in an impossible dream scenario-- Luke, Farya, and Max Miller and maybe a few other historians doing a round table about historical research and reconstruction in completely different fields. or some kind of collaborative work, anything cross-field would be so interesting!
When people follow their passion this is the result. To say they are interesting, is an understatement. I knew Polymathy and then Farya Faraji came to my attention. Just brilliant!!
Two of my favourite creators, this was a huge treat. Letting your guests go on tangents and be passionate about what theyre talking about is so much better than a traditional interview style. Thanks both of you!
Yona is the word for Greeks in Pali (the language used in ancient Buddhist texts in India) and the Prakrits. The word in Sanskrit is Yavana. The word for Greeks in Tamils text is Yavanan (singular) and Yavanar (plural). All derivatives of Ionian
This was a fascinating exploration of musicality in relation to both ancient and contemporary languages. Highly enjoyable hearing both of you speak on the subject matter.
43:05 Same about Poland which was a conglomerate of several West Slavic tribes: Polanie, Wiślanie, Lędzianie and others and to this day the foreigners call Poland either from the Polanie tribe or Lędzianie tribe e.g. Lengyel in Hungarian, Lachy in Ukrainian and Russian and many other countries that are South East from Poland
7:43 Are you talking about Brother Bear? I think that's it - an animated movie set in a Inuit Society (Inuit coded, Inuit Inspired) and for the transformation scene they used a song from a bulgarian women's choir.
From what I read, Chinese melodies overwriting the tones of the language is really a modern pop phenomenon. Traditional composition would follow the actual pitch of the language.
Wow. Forgot to like a this video, two years ago. Historic because it's what got me into this man's gem of a channel. Now he is my personal favorite musician/composer.
1:13:26 The velar L was very much a part of the Latin language. Latin grammarian Quintilian differentiated it from the the light L (exilis) versus the dark or velar L (pinguis). The fact that Portuguese, Catalan and many languages of Italy still preserve it is a testament to this, as well as some phenomenons such as the L in the word "altum" (high) evolving to a U (quite common in many languaes) in French and Old Spanish, as Luke explained.
There are many things to watch. The beautiful thing is everything you post is worth the watch. What is the test? "Ask, am I better off after a view of any production?"
Luke what you say about the contrast between grammarians on accent is so very interesting, because I'm thinking it could also be extended to the vowels pronunciation. I've found a video from around the 50s-60s in which a Greek singer pronounces more than just one variation of /i/, including a round one which modern Greek is not supposed to have.
So fFaraj is in Canada. Been in almost every provence of that magnificent land ( except mabye Calgary in Jan and on business setting up radio school). No skies. There so often i learned O Canada in both English and French.
1:15:33 on the topic of relatinization and the prestigie of Latin. I'm myself moldovan from the Republic of Moldova (Bessarabia) and I speak Romanian with a very noticeable regional dialect. I also speak Russian perfectly and have seen and read some old Soviet era books in moldovan, which was basically a formalized standard of the regional variety of Romanian written in the Cyrillic script. I've been in school in Moldova and after independence and to this day there is a big push in schools to make children speak in the standard Romanian way even preferring sometimes vocabulary that is more common in the standard Romanian instead of using more archaic or regional vocabulary that is still in use in some parts of Romania and Moldova. I've always been fascinated with the variety of synonyms of different origins for common words in Romanian. Some words have Latin roots, some slavic, some Hungarian, and some Turkish. A common example is the word friend which can be either prieten or amic. Prieten is of slavic origin, similar to приятель (priyatel') in Russian for example and surely in other slavic languages. Amic is clearly Latin on the other hand. Funnily enough, the words for enemy are dușman (dushman) or inamic. Dușman is of Turkish origin and inamic is again Latin. I've dove into the topic a long time ago and found out interestingly enough that Romanian was written in the Cyrillic script in the first attested writings in Romanian from the middle ages. It also had a lot of slavic words borrowed from Church Slavonic that was used as the official language in the Church and in government alongside Romanian. Romanian was transferred to the latin script in the 19th century and was also relatinized and a lot of completely new vocabulary was also introduced from Italian and French. This relatinization movement first arose in the Romanian academic circles in Transilvania, under Austro-Hungarian rule. It was deeply intertwined with the political movement of Romanians demanding equal rights and representation in the politics of Transilvania. In Transilvania at the time the Hungarians were dominant politically and at the time Hungarian academia regarded Romanians as not being truly indigenous. This sparked a big research effort in the Romanian circles to rediscover their roots, history and their links to Rome in an attempt to claim rights to the land and representation, which was completely valid. Unfortunately, it also sparked a movement of retroactively modifying historical narratives and culture to more strictly align with the Roman legacy of Romania and stripped to some extent Romania of the non Latin traits. Some people that are heavily indoctrinated with this mythical and idealized view kf Romanian nationalism are usually very prescriptivist in their speech, choice of words, making remarks when others don't speak Romanian the way they think it correct and I find them quite obnoxious. It also robs Romanian culture and history of the traits it accumulated throughout its history of neighboring and cohabitating with cultures very distinct from its own.
Really interesting conversation, digressions and all. I was really struck by the conversation on ethnicity in Iran and it made me notice how similar the guest looks like Bahaullah (the founder of the Baha'i faith). I looked it up and he was from northern Iran so I wonder if he is from the same Iranic group or a related one. I also wish that Mr. Faraji could comment on the seven maqamat that are represented in the Islamic tradition for reciting the Quran melodically. I know these maqamat come from Persian music existing prior to Islam. I wonder how much that tradition exists today in modern Iran. (Edit: 1:21:10 I imagine that is what is being meant by "mode")
Coming from a pitch accented language with phonemic lenght, here the more folksy consumer-oriented styles (in general) will tend to put the (dialect) pitch and length variation in the music, while in others it's more neutral (although the music always reflects the spoken language to some extent). These folksy styles are looked down upon, since the music has this low "junk food" quality that appeals to the masses, but ironically in a way they give praise to the wealth of the language.
Rembetika is the quintessentially Greek sound to me - which sounds like what you were describing as Ionian only though it's origins were in the stewpot of Athens/Pireus - whereas in my travels (not on the tourist routes) it uses the palate common to folk music from Cyprus to Crete to Argos to the barbarian borders of the north. Likely I was less analytical then (forty yeares ago), I just enjoyed playing it on a travel worn zouk, be it in company or on my own in the wilds (too much weight to hike with tabla as well)
As a Spanish,Italian ,Portuguse and Catalan speaker, i strongly disagree with his assessmemt that "learning italian is a lot like learning some Spanish. Perhaps it is his minority status . I speak fluent Catalan as an amcestral language. I loved this Luke, my introduction to you.❤❤❤
'Greek music theory clarifies a lot: the tetrachord. Greek music has 1/4 tones; nothing to do with tempered tuning. Gregorian is both syllabic & melismatic. Possibly less ornate than eastern orthodox, but melismas are very common in western monody.
19:15 I think it's the other way around for Cantonese and Mandarin songs, but there are still some very vague unwritten rules for Mandarin, and then for Cantonese you got things like 主能救 (if you know you know)
I speak Cantonese but hv difficulties in Mandarin, they're both spoken Chinese but they're spoken in different pronunciation, also hv different ways in grammar and vocabulary.
Two remarks that come a year late and are really just side-remarks about stuff that came to me but I hope will be of interest. 1. An interesting side-note after the explanation of Farya's name: Iranian tradition has a very early attestation of the F sound, which I find so interesting. Ancient Greek, which is by no means a conservative language (as far as I know Italic languages are far more conservative) has, in place of the aspirated tenuis "p" a "ph", not a "f" sound. Sanskrit also, where both the "ph" as in "phalam" (fruit) and "bh" as in "bharati" (he carries) are aspirated plosives. In Avestan, however, we have a fully devoloped "f" sound in the place of a "ph", and I find that very interesting and can't put my finger as to why the sound "developed" so early. 2. The schwa at the end of the Mediaeval French songs you mentioned is something that made me think of Chaucer immediately. So "Whan that aprilles with his schowres soote" has 11 syllables, not 10. Which leads me to think a very outlandish thought that I would like both your ears on. Is it possible that the something like the Italian Hendecasyllabic started developing spontaneously for whatever reason here on account of the existing open syllable and died out when the syllable closed? I have absolutely no proof and I haven't checked the prosody properly, but English poetry becomes more syllabic rather than alliterative/stress-based at this point, is it possible that the 11-syllable lines are not just hypercatalectic variants but a full-on metre that resembles a more "Romance feel" (whatever that may be). A bit of a rambly comment, but I hope I get my weird remarks across. xD
excellent interview, one nitpick though the idea that universal grammar is no longer at play or doesn't have supporting evidence is very wrong, chomskyan linguistics is alive and well, although Chomsky's demonstration of Universal Grammar is very different now with the introduction of the minimalist program.
Farya Faraji please, please, I beg of you, do a collaboration with Mathaios Tsahouridis www.youtube.com/@MatthaiosTsahouridis. The man is a Pontic lyre god and he plays like 30 different stringed instruments from all around the globe!
@@jesuscastelan2218 Yes. True. But neither Romeo nor Juliet (if they were real human beings and indeed versions of them were and definitely existed) nor Julius Ceaser spoke the Queen's English. However we do have to be eternally grateful to Shakespeare for preserving them in the collective consciousness of the world.
@@jesuscastelan2218 Also, Shakespear'es English sounded nothing like the Modern Queens English. Luke even did some videos on Original Pronunciation of Shakespeare a few years back, and I also wrote my Major on that very subject. English around 1600 did not sound like RP or posh British English at all.
Well, Farya, if you go in Rome and you live there as a foreigner, the romans don't behave like cariacatural italien behavior stereotype. They are cold, reserved, haughty, arrogant and sure of their ancient culture and their glorious history. They don't behave at all like the Mediterranean! I totaly desagree.
I have a question for faraji You have long hair. Are you making a statement her? The Parthian had long hair to mimic what the Greek soldiers wore. The Parthian wore Greek style of clothing They also spoke Greek fluently. That is Hellenistic Greek. Actually the Parthian spoke and wrote in Greek Now Muslim men are not allowed to have their hair. Is that a problem for you when you visit iran
No he wouldn't have any problems with his hair, I'm from iran and there are many men who have long hair.. As for "message", no that also is very unlikely
Extremely interesting, this discussion by two of my favorite tubers. But. Your title shows your generation (the one who calls "song" any piece of music): one cannot "play music in ancient languages" or in any language -- except if you consider modes, diatonic scales, maqams, íchoi, ragas etc. to be languages. Surprised that Faraji didn't pick that up.
I didn’t have a problem with the wording since semantically, it still makes sense, as songs are encompassed within the broader term of music. I suppose “performing” music in ancient languages would have been more correct, but I don’t think the title as it is is fundamentally broken semantically.
I think that the obvious fact seems to have been skated around for some reason. Around 10,000BC Both Greek and Latin was the same language. Around 5,000BC some of them settled around the coast of Anatolia. Then, and this is where it gets interesting, there was an "Indo European" invasion of Europe from central Asia about 2500BC where the language they used was clearly Graecic because of the use of the CASE SYSTEM which is only used in Greek, Latin AND GERMAN. By 1500BC German had adopted words and terms from northern Europe and the Greeks of that time had, likewise, adopted words and phrases from the Minoans. However, the Indo Europeans who settled in Western Greece, also migrated by colonising southern Italy and adopted words and phrases from the tribes living there. Around 1100BC, Latinos, the youngest son of Odysseus of Ithaca, lead a new colonisation of southern Italy and imposed a new alphabet on the Greek speakers there, which made recording Greek on wood, stone and papyrus much easier for them, because of the confusion in the use of Linear A and Linear B which was not the same, and pandered to the two different kinds of Greek speakers at that time. The alphabet that Latinos imposed became known as the Latin alphabet, and this fixed the Greek language in a written form a full 500 years before the modern Greek alphabet was even introduced to the Greek speaking world. This was the third type of Greek speaker! As a consequence, Latin Greece became separated from the modern Greek world and it evolved in a different way, and when spoken, was only basically understood as Greek by Aegean Greek speakers. The Greek speaking aristocrats of Athens and Rome, then looked down their nose at the Latins for reasons which I can discuss at a later time. Another thing which would interest you is that Graecic peoples must have migrated eastwards as well as westwards because I have found traces of the Greek language in both Japan, China and Indonesia, though after so long ,they are all well hidden!
As a French Canadian who learned to speak French in France, I can guarantee you that the ro-zeu idea you're suggesting is so unnatural to any speaker of standard French dialects, that anyone speaking as you suggest would be hard to take seriously.
RosssRoyce, I think you are mixing up the French words "rose" and "rosé". "Rose" is a flower, while "rosé" is a color. The latter one is pronounced as you suggest.
Living in france, practically swimming in the genuine sound of the language, it actually comes out of my ears 😝 Also am familiar with several periods of ancient French and its music. Go and sing Vive la Rose “viv la roz” lololol! I’m telling you it plainly sounds unnatural, it’s a mute “e” but it’s there, you take it or live it, it’s not negotiable. Now, you don’t have to make it with southern accent, yet his (your) “roz” I hear sounds bad, no matter the degree of narcissistic posturing, calling your self “French speaker” doesn’t mean anything, you sound foreign, nothing wrong with that but when you are vain and self-important it sounds grotesque 😝
@@RosssRoyce First of all, no reason to to be so rude and aggressive. Secondly, I've been living in France as well, in the North-East. Third, the way words are pronounced in some songs does not necessarily reflect the actual spoken language. Edith Piaf might pronounce "allez" as "hallez", with an actual "h" in there. This does not mean that spoken French has the h sound.
4:23 No my dear Farya! We haven't established those terms . This are Germanics and French terms according to their perception of mediaeval Greece and Greeks . A made up term . We never called ourselves like that if we want to distinguish between the roman empire and middle ages the the term medieval roman empire (MRE) is by far the best and more accurate way to describe it . Its historicaly accurate a and does not create confusion with the byzantine colony . When people ask me if i have ever heard "byzantine" music i say to them that nothing of that era has remained because there are 2.600 that have passed Lol
There is at least 20 DRASTICALLY DIFFERENT regional Bulgarian musics, and NONE of them sound Indian or Arabic. Some of them sound common with old Greek/Turkish. Some can sound common with old Breton music, even with old Gaelic music (not the Viking influence ones).
Hey Farya, I love your work, both musical, historical, philosophical but you have made so many videos trashing the colonial attitudes of the west. The attitude you so much talk about in your videos. That the western mind wants to see you only through its own lens, that the west even convinced the Greeks to ban rebetiko, just like Luke is trying to convince us to pronounce diphthoggos like openAI because he saw it in a luci-an dream contrary to all evidence otherwise. Luke is of course part of this colonial tradition(consciously or otherwise) which now makes you a part of this colonial tradition you speak so ill about. And of course Luke is not a bad person, nor does he do it consciously, he does it by virtue of being an active part of a western tradition claiming openly that "the Greeks are barbarians who have forgotten their language". So even if he was right, which he isn't, you should not have been using the colonial arguments that spring from the literary tradition that Luke follows. But is he correct about ancient Greek? Definitely not. Benjamin Kantor, Buth, Teodorsson have done real legwork on collating relevant evidence and not merely 'indications" like Luke's favorite Sidney Allen whose argument range from the laughable to the childish. Anyhow read this: www.politicsforum.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=184137 I refer to you and previous videos in the post as well.
I took you seriously until you used the petty, childish tactic of "which makes you part of this colonial tradition as well." Believe me, using petty emotional manipulation and false equivalencies quickly shows you for who you truly are. It takes delusion, mental gymnastics and intellectual dishonesty of an astounding level to brand me, the guy constantly getting shit on by Eurocentrics, as a Eurocentric with a Western colonialistic view of Greece. Sure.
@@faryafaraji Our cultures are direct and not keen on subterfuge. You have written volumes against euro-centrism, but when you replayed a Koine Greek song, you consulted a US helicopter pilot to help you with your Greek to be "accurate". And you do not see any kind of contradiction there? This you believe is totally consistent with your anti-Eurocentric messages. Well, it just isn't [consistent] and someone had to point this out to you given your crystal clear anti-euro-centric/orientalist videos. Even if Luke is Christ reborn and has received the holy spirit of Greek vocals, your choice would still be contradictory to your message. Moreover, when you used the petty "quiet greek nationalists, I know what you 're going to say but I reject it cause you greek nationalists and I did my [American-based] homework" in your Seikilos video you did not participate in the same kind of colonial elitism that you denounce in your own videos...and god forbid anybody points this out to you, right? I do not believe you did this because you had any malicious intent, I think it was just a lapse in judgement, though your subsequent reply makes me question my idea about your character. If you were or are in doubt, I am fully aware of your work against Euro-centrism and I applaud you for it. Nay, I love you for it. And that is why my jaw dropped on the floor when I saw you adopting a Eurocentric narrative and I felt I had to tell this to you. Not because I believe you are Eurocentric, it's clear you are not, but out of fear you may become, which frankly the way you pre-emptively dismiss any and all potential Greek replies as "nationalist" shows that you are looking down on those people and their traditions a priori. Now, all personal petty childish nonsense aside, please understand that this neither about me, you or Luke. So please do take a moment or 2 to read my politicsforum.org thread, you will learn something more about the Erasmian/Hellenic controversy both historically and in the present and your knowledge on the particular subject will expand significantly. I have watched your videos 10-100 times each and reposted them in all the social media and groups I am humanely capable to, do me this favor and read a few words I put together just once! Luke makes huge errors that are not consistent with his actual knowledge, meaning that he has the knowledge to know he is wrong, but he doesnt care much. Reading my thread in the forum, this will become very obvious to you and it will also become if you read his replies to my comments in his Φ,Θ,Χ video where he misrepresents Thrax by more than mile without a second thought to spare. Luke attacks Karagounis because Karagounis addressed the straws of Blass and by addressing those straws he became as guilty as Blass, but Karagounis has well been surpassed by others, which is of course why Luke talks about Karagounis and not the others. Easy target for easy likes for easy groupthink. Greeks themselves have identified the issues of Karagounis and once again Luke merely copy/pastes pre-existing arguments against him and makes not a single original point. Of course no word about Blass who made the same & original straws in reverse that Karagounis is addressing because that would undermine Luke's tradition and Blass' ancestor, Sidney Allen. The worst kind of colonialism is the philhellenic type, the insidious type as you yourself analyse in your videos. The type that comes in peace and then projects its own images while generalizing against an entire culture as "nationalists" pre-emptively thus anticipating any reaction, as something to be dismissed a priori, so whatever one says just by virtue of disagreeing & arguing they then "show their true colours" that you have apriori projected over an entire culture. And the loop continues. You know Farya, we 're not all crazy nationalists, we have academies, universities, logic, scholars & brain to be able to talk about well our own native language. I am married to an Anglo-Iranian woman. I don't ask an American person to tell me about older or modern Iranian language, I ask the Iranian academics, friends, artists that I can get my hands on because well that seems the normal thing to do. Khoda fez.
Actually I think it was the way the inhabitants of the Greek colony Cumae, between Rome and Naples, used to call themselves. They presented themselves as Γραικοί as from the polis of Γραία in Boeotia, if I’m not mistaken. This way, Romans came to know them as Greeks and then applied this name to all Hellenes. So it’s not slang, it’s just the same dynamic that brought Germany to be called Allemagne in French
1:25:10 What Apostolis/Αποστόλης Μ. is mentioning here could indeed be related to the intrusion of Slavic speakers during the Middle Ages but one can never be sure.
Here’s the corrections I wrote down last time for the good people watching this in posterity, and thanks once again Luke for inviting me here!
*I mention Georgian chanting/singing early on, but I meant Gregorian, silly mistake on my part.
*I later mention that we don’t know the Seikilos Epitaph’s mode, but I was confusing this with another historical piece, and the confusion regarding the Seikilos epitaph is one of nomenclature: we know what the melody was, we’re just not sure what that mode was named within the Ancient Greek tonos system.
Awesome, thank you :D
No way bro I literally have all your best Byzantine ones in a playlist so I can LARP in Total war properly😂. Keep it up bro Dance of Akritai gives me goosebumps everytime it plays!
One more. Greek music very often ignores the stress accent. Probably every song. Sinefiasmeni kiriaki which is extremely popular is a perfect example. Love your vids
@@bouzoukiman5000 that happens with the relatively modern songs, my understanding is that as we go back the stress accent is more tied to the music. @faryafaraji I'd like to send you a proof of concept for such a song, would that be ok?
There are at least 20 DRASTICALLY DIFFERENT regional Bulgarian musics, and NONE of them sound Indian or Arabic. Some of them sound common with old Greek/Turkish. Some can sound common with old Breton music, even with old Gaelic music (not the Viking influence ones).
It probably wasn't meant for that but Farya's Hikanatoi and Belisarius is how we have been putting our 20 months to sleep. :)
Faraji’s Narses song gives me impossibly good luck when making dice rolls. I have no idea how it does this, but it just works and I have decided not to question it.
Kid's probably dreaming of reconquest
"Could this sweet child be my dear grandson, Eflatun Ilyas Bozkır? 😍"
I bumped into Farya's channel without even spotting this video. So glad you two found each other!
The work you two are doing tickles my history bone and is great help with worldbuilding.
Very kind. Farya is the real hero
Since covid I had lost interest in the things I once loved. Hearing you guys speaking language and music was a piece of the Aeonic reaching this isolated Koala in this frigid dystopic NYC. Grazie Lucca ! ❤❤❤❤
As Greek , i must say that Farya impressed me with his knowledge in ancient Greek music. Ancient Greek music style was more modal. And the modal scales were descending , not ascending like today. There were 7 modes ( tones ) . Ionian , Lydian , Mixolydian , Doric , Aeolian , Locric , Frygian . All tones had their Ethics , their type of sound , and were used in many occasion , like triumphs, laments , rituals etc. The scales was combined by the conection of the modes , trichords or tetrachords , which leads us to Byzantine Octaechos and nowadays middle - eastern - Arabic music and the maqaams . As the same way . Well done Farya .
A new favorite has joined an old one. Just left the eastern music and ancient Greek modes and wound up her. Glad you are aware of one another.
I'm fascinated by Mr. Faraji explaining his Mazandarani heritage. I'm French Canadian from Northern Ontario (where the French sounds a bit different from Quebec), with some Métis roots and close familiarity with both Métis and Cree traditions --- including lots of First Nations music. For several years, I worked in a dental laboratory in Toronto. The owner/manager was French Canadian, and we had many French speaking customers. The staff was the usual Toronto mixture of people from many lands, but there was a core group of technicians who spoke Farsi. One was from Tehran, long in Toronto, and spoke English with no accent, and French with a slight one. One was from Isfahan, though descended from the Ukrainians who migrated to Iran several generations ago. Another was an Azeri who grew up speaking Farsi but retained his Azeri and also spoke some Kurdish. Another was an Afghan who spoke Dari, but she could switch gears to sound more Farsi to accommodate the others. We briefly also had a Tadzhik speaker who only seemed comfortable talking to the Afghan. Over many lunchroom conversations, I learned quite a bit about the complexities of the Iranic world, in addition to the books I had read since I had a childhood fascination with the Achaemenids. I was aware of Mazandaran, and knew the basic things that Mr. Faraji said about its distinctive geography, but had never heard someone of that background discussing it. I have long been curious about that distinctive place. The idea that the person explaining it to me would also be able to understand things in my own heritage --- such as the distinct features that make Métis music distinct in its matrix of Cree, Ojibway, Dené, French Canadian, Highland Scot, Irish and Orcadian influences. . . well that completely blows me away. And he knows Inuit music, too!!!
. . . This two hour-long conversation seems way too short for me. I wish it was three times as long.
. . . PS - Is Mr. Faraji familiar with the music of the Canadian composer Christos Hatzis?
Holy, that was a long read... What caught my interest is the Azeri who you said also spoke some Kurdish, if I had to guess he would be from West Azerbaijan province of Iran where there's also a minority of Kurds. Cities like Khoy, Urmia and Mahabad.
@@aliazarmehralparslan6067
Yes, indeed. Childhood in some small place north of the lake, then educated in Tabriz. I got the impression that he considered Tabriz to be his true "home town." He definitely preferred the city to the country, and made a big deal about missing the chocolates of Tabriz. I can't ask for clarification, as it's been years since I worked there, and I've lost track of people.
Seeing them team up to share knowledge was so cool! y'know what I'd love to see in an impossible dream scenario-- Luke, Farya, and Max Miller and maybe a few other historians doing a round table about historical research and reconstruction in completely different fields. or some kind of collaborative work, anything cross-field would be so interesting!
When people follow their passion this is the result. To say they are interesting, is an understatement. I knew Polymathy and then Farya Faraji came to my attention. Just brilliant!!
What a great video Farya is the man as a Italian American who loves Roman history
Oh jez. They are together!
Two of my favourite creators, this was a huge treat. Letting your guests go on tangents and be passionate about what theyre talking about is so much better than a traditional interview style. Thanks both of you!
Honestly I’m finding I learn faster by listening to your music. Naturally I use other methods in concert
Brain was on fire the whole time. You gotta do this again
I found out having an awful internet connection is smth we Iranians move as a part of our heritage, even when we move out of Iran XD
Brilliant conversation guys, extremely interesting :)
42:57 in Sanskrit or its prakrit (vulgar) derivatives we called the Greeks the Yona (Ionians) as well
Yona is the word for Greeks in Pali (the language used in ancient Buddhist texts in India) and the Prakrits. The word in Sanskrit is Yavana. The word for Greeks in Tamils text is Yavanan (singular) and Yavanar (plural).
All derivatives of Ionian
how does Farya produce that kind of music? I am very fascinated and I really like Farya's Latin epic music ❤
This was a fascinating exploration of musicality in relation to both ancient and contemporary languages. Highly enjoyable hearing both of you speak on the subject matter.
43:05 Same about Poland which was a conglomerate of several West Slavic tribes: Polanie, Wiślanie, Lędzianie and others and to this day the foreigners call Poland either from the Polanie tribe or Lędzianie tribe e.g. Lengyel in Hungarian, Lachy in Ukrainian and Russian and many other countries that are South East from Poland
7:43 Are you talking about Brother Bear? I think that's it - an animated movie set in a Inuit Society (Inuit coded, Inuit Inspired) and for the transformation scene they used a song from a bulgarian women's choir.
two of my favourite youtubers!!!
From what I read, Chinese melodies overwriting the tones of the language is really a modern pop phenomenon. Traditional composition would follow the actual pitch of the language.
Wow. Forgot to like a this video, two years ago. Historic because it's what got me into this man's gem of a channel. Now he is my personal favorite musician/composer.
Fascinating discussion. I thank both of you.
Μπραβο και στους δύο. Είστε καταπληκτικοί . Συνεχίστε''
1:13:26 The velar L was very much a part of the Latin language. Latin grammarian Quintilian differentiated it from the the light L (exilis) versus the dark or velar L (pinguis). The fact that Portuguese, Catalan and many languages of Italy still preserve it is a testament to this, as well as some phenomenons such as the L in the word "altum" (high) evolving to a U (quite common in many languaes) in French and Old Spanish, as Luke explained.
este señor es MAGICO gracias por rl arte Farya!
Thanks! That was very insightful.
There are many things to watch. The beautiful thing is everything you post is worth the watch.
What is the test? "Ask, am I better off after a view of any production?"
The major pentatonic scale is developed out of the first few overtones of the harmonic series.
It makes sense that it develops all over the place.
Luke what you say about the contrast between grammarians on accent is so very interesting, because I'm thinking it could also be extended to the vowels pronunciation. I've found a video from around the 50s-60s in which a Greek singer pronounces more than just one variation of /i/, including a round one which modern Greek is not supposed to have.
Farya, obrigado pela música belisarius. É fantástica.
So fFaraj is in Canada. Been in almost every provence of that magnificent land ( except mabye Calgary in Jan and on business setting up radio school). No skies. There so often i learned O Canada in both English and French.
Thank you!
1:15:33 on the topic of relatinization and the prestigie of Latin. I'm myself moldovan from the Republic of Moldova (Bessarabia) and I speak Romanian with a very noticeable regional dialect. I also speak Russian perfectly and have seen and read some old Soviet era books in moldovan, which was basically a formalized standard of the regional variety of Romanian written in the Cyrillic script. I've been in school in Moldova and after independence and to this day there is a big push in schools to make children speak in the standard Romanian way even preferring sometimes vocabulary that is more common in the standard Romanian instead of using more archaic or regional vocabulary that is still in use in some parts of Romania and Moldova. I've always been fascinated with the variety of synonyms of different origins for common words in Romanian. Some words have Latin roots, some slavic, some Hungarian, and some Turkish. A common example is the word friend which can be either prieten or amic. Prieten is of slavic origin, similar to приятель (priyatel') in Russian for example and surely in other slavic languages. Amic is clearly Latin on the other hand. Funnily enough, the words for enemy are dușman (dushman) or inamic. Dușman is of Turkish origin and inamic is again Latin. I've dove into the topic a long time ago and found out interestingly enough that Romanian was written in the Cyrillic script in the first attested writings in Romanian from the middle ages. It also had a lot of slavic words borrowed from Church Slavonic that was used as the official language in the Church and in government alongside Romanian. Romanian was transferred to the latin script in the 19th century and was also relatinized and a lot of completely new vocabulary was also introduced from Italian and French. This relatinization movement first arose in the Romanian academic circles in Transilvania, under Austro-Hungarian rule. It was deeply intertwined with the political movement of Romanians demanding equal rights and representation in the politics of Transilvania. In Transilvania at the time the Hungarians were dominant politically and at the time Hungarian academia regarded Romanians as not being truly indigenous. This sparked a big research effort in the Romanian circles to rediscover their roots, history and their links to Rome in an attempt to claim rights to the land and representation, which was completely valid. Unfortunately, it also sparked a movement of retroactively modifying historical narratives and culture to more strictly align with the Roman legacy of Romania and stripped to some extent Romania of the non Latin traits. Some people that are heavily indoctrinated with this mythical and idealized view kf Romanian nationalism are usually very prescriptivist in their speech, choice of words, making remarks when others don't speak Romanian the way they think it correct and I find them quite obnoxious. It also robs Romanian culture and history of the traits it accumulated throughout its history of neighboring and cohabitating with cultures very distinct from its own.
Really interesting conversation, digressions and all.
I was really struck by the conversation on ethnicity in Iran and it made me notice how similar the guest looks like Bahaullah (the founder of the Baha'i faith). I looked it up and he was from northern Iran so I wonder if he is from the same Iranic group or a related one.
I also wish that Mr. Faraji could comment on the seven maqamat that are represented in the Islamic tradition for reciting the Quran melodically. I know these maqamat come from Persian music existing prior to Islam. I wonder how much that tradition exists today in modern Iran. (Edit: 1:21:10 I imagine that is what is being meant by "mode")
Farya is mazahderani who are located in Northern Iran
Coming from a pitch accented language with phonemic lenght, here the more folksy consumer-oriented styles (in general) will tend to put the (dialect) pitch and length variation in the music, while in others it's more neutral (although the music always reflects the spoken language to some extent). These folksy styles are looked down upon, since the music has this low "junk food" quality that appeals to the masses, but ironically in a way they give praise to the wealth of the language.
Rembetika is the quintessentially Greek sound to me - which sounds like what you were describing as Ionian only though it's origins were in the stewpot of Athens/Pireus - whereas in my travels (not on the tourist routes) it uses the palate common to folk music from Cyprus to Crete to Argos to the barbarian borders of the north. Likely I was less analytical then (forty yeares ago), I just enjoyed playing it on a travel worn zouk, be it in company or on my own in the wilds (too much weight to hike with tabla as well)
It came to Athens from Asia Minor Greeks on the west coast of Turkey - Smyrna etc after the population exchange. So, perhaps you could say it's Ionian
As a Spanish,Italian ,Portuguse and Catalan speaker, i strongly disagree with his assessmemt that "learning italian is a lot like learning some Spanish. Perhaps it is his minority status . I speak fluent Catalan as an amcestral language. I loved this Luke, my introduction to you.❤❤❤
I would love to see the Rolling Stones 'Satisfaction' remastered in Ancient Egyptian by Russian Orthodox monks! 😅
'Greek music theory clarifies a lot: the tetrachord. Greek music has 1/4 tones; nothing to do with tempered tuning. Gregorian is both syllabic & melismatic. Possibly less ornate than eastern orthodox, but melismas are very common in western monody.
19:15 I think it's the other way around for Cantonese and Mandarin songs, but there are still some very vague unwritten rules for Mandarin, and then for Cantonese you got things like 主能救 (if you know you know)
Congrats.
I speak Cantonese but hv difficulties in Mandarin, they're both spoken Chinese but they're spoken in different pronunciation, also hv different ways in grammar and vocabulary.
Two remarks that come a year late and are really just side-remarks about stuff that came to me but I hope will be of interest.
1. An interesting side-note after the explanation of Farya's name: Iranian tradition has a very early attestation of the F sound, which I find so interesting. Ancient Greek, which is by no means a conservative language (as far as I know Italic languages are far more conservative) has, in place of the aspirated tenuis "p" a "ph", not a "f" sound. Sanskrit also, where both the "ph" as in "phalam" (fruit) and "bh" as in "bharati" (he carries) are aspirated plosives. In Avestan, however, we have a fully devoloped "f" sound in the place of a "ph", and I find that very interesting and can't put my finger as to why the sound "developed" so early.
2. The schwa at the end of the Mediaeval French songs you mentioned is something that made me think of Chaucer immediately. So "Whan that aprilles with his schowres soote" has 11 syllables, not 10.
Which leads me to think a very outlandish thought that I would like both your ears on.
Is it possible that the something like the Italian Hendecasyllabic started developing spontaneously for whatever reason here on account of the existing open syllable and died out when the syllable closed? I have absolutely no proof and I haven't checked the prosody properly, but English poetry becomes more syllabic rather than alliterative/stress-based at this point, is it possible that the 11-syllable lines are not just hypercatalectic variants but a full-on metre that resembles a more "Romance feel" (whatever that may be).
A bit of a rambly comment, but I hope I get my weird remarks across. xD
Me a hangarian at the first minutes: 😄
excellent interview, one nitpick though the idea that universal grammar is no longer at play or doesn't have supporting evidence is very wrong, chomskyan linguistics is alive and well, although Chomsky's demonstration of Universal Grammar is very different now with the introduction of the minimalist program.
45:39❤❤❤
too much hair vs too little hair
hilarious
Farya Faraji please, please, I beg of you, do a collaboration with Mathaios Tsahouridis www.youtube.com/@MatthaiosTsahouridis. The man is a Pontic lyre god and he plays like 30 different stringed instruments from all around the globe!
Why do we associate Romeo and Juliet and Julius Ceaser with the Queen's English?
They are plays written by William Shakespeare?
@@jesuscastelan2218 Yes. True. But neither Romeo nor Juliet (if they were real human beings and indeed versions of them were and definitely existed) nor Julius Ceaser spoke the Queen's English. However we do have to be eternally grateful to Shakespeare for preserving them in the collective consciousness of the world.
@@jesuscastelan2218 Also, Shakespear'es English sounded nothing like the Modern Queens English. Luke even did some videos on Original Pronunciation of Shakespeare a few years back, and I also wrote my Major on that very subject. English around 1600 did not sound like RP or posh British English at all.
Well, Farya, if you go in Rome and you live there as a foreigner, the romans don't behave like cariacatural italien behavior stereotype. They are cold, reserved, haughty, arrogant and sure of their ancient culture and their glorious history. They don't behave at all like the Mediterranean! I totaly desagree.
I do love in Rome. They are no stereotype, it’s true, but in my experience they are not as you describe either.
I have a question for faraji
You have long hair. Are you making a statement her?
The Parthian had long hair to mimic what the Greek soldiers wore. The Parthian wore Greek style of clothing
They also spoke Greek fluently. That is Hellenistic Greek. Actually the Parthian spoke and wrote in Greek
Now Muslim men are not allowed to have their hair. Is that a problem for you when you visit iran
No he wouldn't have any problems with his hair, I'm from iran and there are many men who have long hair.. As for "message", no that also is very unlikely
Also look at the Persian engravings from before parthians.. Long hair seems to always have been a thing and not only as a mimic of Greek soldiers
Saint Nikólaos is more real than ever.
The best saint
Extremely interesting, this discussion by two of my favorite tubers. But. Your title shows your generation (the one who calls "song" any piece of music): one cannot "play music in ancient languages" or in any language -- except if you consider modes, diatonic scales, maqams, íchoi, ragas etc. to be languages. Surprised that Faraji didn't pick that up.
I didn’t have a problem with the wording since semantically, it still makes sense, as songs are encompassed within the broader term of music.
I suppose “performing” music in ancient languages would have been more correct, but I don’t think the title as it is is fundamentally broken semantically.
@@faryafaraji OK, I could look at it that way. Thanks.
😲😲
I think that the obvious fact seems to have been skated around for some reason. Around 10,000BC Both Greek and Latin was the same language. Around 5,000BC some of them settled around the coast of Anatolia. Then, and this is where it gets interesting, there was an "Indo European" invasion of Europe from central Asia about 2500BC where the language they used was clearly Graecic because of the use of the CASE SYSTEM which is only used in Greek, Latin AND GERMAN. By 1500BC German had adopted words and terms from northern Europe and the Greeks of that time had, likewise, adopted words and phrases from the Minoans. However, the Indo Europeans who settled in Western Greece, also migrated by colonising southern Italy and adopted words and phrases from the tribes living there. Around 1100BC, Latinos, the youngest son of Odysseus of Ithaca, lead a new colonisation of southern Italy and imposed a new alphabet on the Greek speakers there, which made recording Greek on wood, stone and papyrus much easier for them, because of the confusion in the use of Linear A and Linear B which was not the same, and pandered to the two different kinds of Greek speakers at that time.
The alphabet that Latinos imposed became known as the Latin alphabet, and this fixed the Greek language in a written form a full 500 years before the modern Greek alphabet was even introduced to the Greek speaking world. This was the third type of Greek speaker! As a consequence, Latin Greece became separated from the modern Greek world and it evolved in a different way, and when spoken, was only basically understood as Greek by Aegean Greek speakers. The Greek speaking aristocrats of Athens and Rome, then looked down their nose at the Latins for reasons which I can discuss at a later time.
Another thing which would interest you is that Graecic peoples must have migrated eastwards as well as westwards because I have found traces of the Greek language in both Japan, China and Indonesia, though after so long ,they are all well hidden!
You don’t pronounce “roz” for rose in France, you pronounce it ro-ze. Now, and back then.
As a French Canadian who learned to speak French in France, I can guarantee you that the ro-zeu idea you're suggesting is so unnatural to any speaker of standard French dialects, that anyone speaking as you suggest would be hard to take seriously.
RosssRoyce, I think you are mixing up the French words "rose" and "rosé". "Rose" is a flower, while "rosé" is a color. The latter one is pronounced as you suggest.
Living in france, practically swimming in the genuine sound of the language, it actually comes out of my ears 😝 Also am familiar with several periods of ancient French and its music. Go and sing Vive la Rose “viv la roz” lololol! I’m telling you it plainly sounds unnatural, it’s a mute “e” but it’s there, you take it or live it, it’s not negotiable. Now, you don’t have to make it with southern accent, yet his (your) “roz” I hear sounds bad, no matter the degree of narcissistic posturing, calling your self “French speaker” doesn’t mean anything, you sound foreign, nothing wrong with that but when you are vain and self-important it sounds grotesque 😝
@@RosssRoyce First of all, no reason to to be so rude and aggressive. Secondly, I've been living in France as well, in the North-East. Third, the way words are pronounced in some songs does not necessarily reflect the actual spoken language. Edith Piaf might pronounce "allez" as "hallez", with an actual "h" in there. This does not mean that spoken French has the h sound.
4:23 No my dear Farya! We haven't established those terms . This are Germanics and French terms according to their perception of mediaeval Greece and Greeks . A made up term . We never called ourselves like that if we want to distinguish between the roman empire and middle ages the the term medieval roman empire (MRE) is by far the best and more accurate way to describe it . Its historicaly accurate a and does not create confusion with the byzantine colony . When people ask me if i have ever heard "byzantine" music i say to them that nothing of that era has remained because there are 2.600 that have passed Lol
How I missed that? :0 Hahae.
HunnicMatyi
There is at least 20 DRASTICALLY DIFFERENT regional Bulgarian musics, and NONE of them sound Indian or Arabic. Some of them sound common with old Greek/Turkish. Some can sound common with old Breton music, even with old Gaelic music (not the Viking influence ones).
Hey Farya, I love your work, both musical, historical, philosophical but you have made so many videos trashing the colonial attitudes of the west. The attitude you so much talk about in your videos. That the western mind wants to see you only through its own lens, that the west even convinced the Greeks to ban rebetiko, just like Luke is trying to convince us to pronounce diphthoggos like openAI because he saw it in a luci-an dream contrary to all evidence otherwise.
Luke is of course part of this colonial tradition(consciously or otherwise) which now makes you a part of this colonial tradition you speak so ill about. And of course Luke is not a bad person, nor does he do it consciously, he does it by virtue of being an active part of a western tradition claiming openly that "the Greeks are barbarians who have forgotten their language".
So even if he was right, which he isn't, you should not have been using the colonial arguments that spring from the literary tradition that Luke follows.
But is he correct about ancient Greek? Definitely not. Benjamin Kantor, Buth, Teodorsson have done real legwork on collating relevant evidence and not merely 'indications" like Luke's favorite Sidney Allen whose argument range from the laughable to the childish.
Anyhow read this:
www.politicsforum.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=184137
I refer to you and previous videos in the post as well.
I took you seriously until you used the petty, childish tactic of "which makes you part of this colonial tradition as well."
Believe me, using petty emotional manipulation and false equivalencies quickly shows you for who you truly are. It takes delusion, mental gymnastics and intellectual dishonesty of an astounding level to brand me, the guy constantly getting shit on by Eurocentrics, as a Eurocentric with a Western colonialistic view of Greece. Sure.
@@faryafaraji Our cultures are direct and not keen on subterfuge. You have written volumes against euro-centrism, but when you replayed a Koine Greek song, you consulted a US helicopter pilot to help you with your Greek to be "accurate".
And you do not see any kind of contradiction there? This you believe is totally consistent with your anti-Eurocentric messages. Well, it just isn't [consistent] and someone had to point this out to you given your crystal clear anti-euro-centric/orientalist videos.
Even if Luke is Christ reborn and has received the holy spirit of Greek vocals, your choice would still be contradictory to your message. Moreover, when you used the petty "quiet greek nationalists, I know what you 're going to say but I reject it cause you greek nationalists and I did my [American-based] homework" in your Seikilos video you did not participate in the same kind of colonial elitism that you denounce in your own videos...and god forbid anybody points this out to you, right?
I do not believe you did this because you had any malicious intent, I think it was just a lapse in judgement, though your subsequent reply makes me question my idea about your character.
If you were or are in doubt, I am fully aware of your work against Euro-centrism and I applaud you for it.
Nay, I love you for it.
And that is why my jaw dropped on the floor when I saw you adopting a Eurocentric narrative and I felt I had to tell this to you. Not because I believe you are Eurocentric, it's clear you are not, but out of fear you may become, which frankly the way you pre-emptively dismiss any and all potential Greek replies as "nationalist" shows that you are looking down on those people and their traditions a priori.
Now, all personal petty childish nonsense aside, please understand that this neither about me, you or Luke.
So please do take a moment or 2 to read my politicsforum.org thread, you will learn something more about the Erasmian/Hellenic controversy both historically and in the present and your knowledge on the particular subject will expand significantly.
I have watched your videos 10-100 times each and reposted them in all the social media and groups I am humanely capable to, do me this favor and read a few words I put together just once! Luke makes huge errors that are not consistent with his actual knowledge, meaning that he has the knowledge to know he is wrong, but he doesnt care much. Reading my thread in the forum, this will become very obvious to you and it will also become if you read his replies to my comments in his Φ,Θ,Χ video where he misrepresents Thrax by more than mile without a second thought to spare.
Luke attacks Karagounis because Karagounis addressed the straws of Blass and by addressing those straws he became as guilty as Blass, but Karagounis has well been surpassed by others, which is of course why Luke talks about Karagounis and not the others. Easy target for easy likes for easy groupthink. Greeks themselves have identified the issues of Karagounis and once again Luke merely copy/pastes pre-existing arguments against him and makes not a single original point.
Of course no word about Blass who made the same & original straws in reverse that Karagounis is addressing because that would undermine Luke's tradition and Blass' ancestor, Sidney Allen.
The worst kind of colonialism is the philhellenic type, the insidious type as you yourself analyse in your videos. The type that comes in peace and then projects its own images while generalizing against an entire culture as "nationalists" pre-emptively thus anticipating any reaction, as something to be dismissed a priori, so whatever one says just by virtue of disagreeing & arguing they then "show their true colours" that you have apriori projected over an entire culture. And the loop continues.
You know Farya, we 're not all crazy nationalists, we have academies, universities, logic, scholars & brain to be able to talk about well our own native language.
I am married to an Anglo-Iranian woman. I don't ask an American person to tell me about older or modern Iranian language, I ask the Iranian academics, friends, artists that I can get my hands on because well that seems the normal thing to do.
Khoda fez.
The word greek was a negative slang term created by the romans
Μόνον στην παράνοια ορισμένων ρωμιών...
Actually I think it was the way the inhabitants of the Greek colony Cumae, between Rome and Naples, used to call themselves.
They presented themselves as Γραικοί as from the polis of Γραία in Boeotia, if I’m not mistaken.
This way, Romans came to know them as Greeks and then applied this name to all Hellenes.
So it’s not slang, it’s just the same dynamic that brought Germany to be called Allemagne in French
1:25:10 What Apostolis/Αποστόλης Μ. is mentioning here could indeed be related to the intrusion of Slavic speakers during the Middle Ages but one can never be sure.
North monkeydonia is bulgarian and albanian! The true macedonia is in greece
this made me spit my drink
@@theinfodon why?
@@argvas373 "north monkeydonia" very funny
Greeks not getting angry on the internet for 2 minutes challenge (IMPOSSIBLE)
not thrut