payday 3's armor system doesnt work? HA. My dad's spine doesnt work either. 55+ years of EXCRUTIATING DISC PAIN. bob feet... life aint fair. you millenial snowflakes have bigger things to worry about than electronic video games.
I played full on heavy in Payday 2, I could go toe to toe with a Dozer, I would be the heavy gunner for my team that would keep the heat off of them when it got hot, but in 3 I can't, I have to run from a Dozer with full tank build because Payday 3 is stealth only, in 3 I am punished for even going loud to the point the game should automatically end the mission with a fail the moment your caught. Me and my friend said it should have regen armour like in payday 2 or regen health when out of combat, have the players work as a team when loud by knowing when to fall back and taking time away from the fire, if people could regen easily they would have no reason to fall back, making them OP, but making it so players need to fall back to regen makes it so they fall back leaving a window for the enemy well the team now has to make sure they can keep that window closed well the other player regens and can go back out there. Payday 3 has non of this and needs it as going loud is pointless and has no team work in it as you can't take turns or cover your team as it does nothing. The one thing I think this video does wrong is it's points using games that aren't good examples, the video fails to understand that games are different and that they have different ways of doing things when it comes to how the game works, Doom and Ultra Kill are fast pace boomer shooters, they are about constantly moving, killing, there is no stealth, there is no hiding behind cover, it's all about getting in the enemies face and killing them all, DMC is a hack n' slash which is again a fast base combo game, Warframe is a fast pace hero shooter which again is different. Payday is a slower pace game, it's made to have players have the option to stealth or go loud, the objectives are made to have players hold a point or do something in a place and maybe go form one point to another, you're meant to get behind cover, and push back the cops or hold out against them with moments of breaks, Helldivers was a better point as that one is closer and I agree with the point about hit scans but that's probably due to the fact Hit scans suck dick and games should stop using them unless they are 100% needed, a game with projectiles always feels nicer and plays more strategic Payday 2 had armour regen which was fine as it was, Payday 3 could of course do better then that but just a simple armour regen would do so much, specially removing hit scanning which makes it awful, the amount of times I walk out somewhere and get constant hit feed that is spammed is ridiculous, plus the game needs the heavy armour or a new full on heavy set like the last set in Payday 2, so players can be tanks and go against Dozers and feel like one with the cost of not being able to do stealth as they are a hulking tank, give the players more stuff to prep and strategies as well as working as a team. Have a team go in with stealth builds well 1 stays outside with full plate waiting for when things get hot, Like I use to with my brother and friends in payday 2, the game needs to stop punishing players for being loud and punish players for being reckless, reward them for knowing when to fall back and gain their health or armour back, as well as rewarding the team for covering them when they need it too. But I agree with this video and seeing the bit where armour regen is actually in the game but disabled makes Payday 3 more annoying that it can easily be solved and should.
Agreed. The run, hide, wait system is. Just not effective and most importantly it's not fun. If you're running a trade hostages for resources build, you end up seeing a lot of unused armor repair packs all over the map. So you should be able to repair any broken armor with these repair packs. Also head shot kills or something like that should offer an armor regeneration function too.
Have a very thin layer of rechargeable armor, like 3/4 of an adaptive, have your armor plates count as some sort of like 90% damage goes to plate, 10% to armor, and your armor type will just effect movement and strength of the thin layer
You beat me to it! I have a really good idea for an armor rework that doesnt fully go back to PD2 and doesnt complete throw away PD3's... Im just kinda lazy and making the video presentation is going very slowly in terms of me creating it
yes - having to micro manage 4 health bars is a horrible idea. and every popular or meta build will try to get rid/minimize 1 or 2 of those for the sake of maxxing the mentioned "dodge" machanic. maybe - just maybe the armor system is just straight up badly designed and should be replaced (instead of tacking another fucking healthbar onto my character)
lol damage IS avoidable, that's what the game is about. i despise adaptive armor and i hope they don't turn p3 into a clown fiesta like p2 is. but they probably will.
I fail to see how adding the dodge system you proposed would solve the issues you have with the other health systems in the game. While it could be really cool for build variety, something the game needs, wouldn't it just be yet another "withdraw from combat to replenish" type resource? You spent a good part of the video gassing up other health systems in other games and how they reward the player for engaging in combat, but i just can't see that same philosophy being reflected in your proposed solution (apart from that one idea for a skill consuming edge to replenish dodge). It feels like you want trauma damage and armor plates as a finite resource out of the game, and you overengineered another armor system without all of that on top of what we already have.
I understand people don’t like having another resource but I just don’t see the issue. I mean regenerating armor also has bad design. It forces the player to step aside and just wait for the armor to heal. At this point, why not just have call of duty regenerate health? Why even have armor? It seems more like something people just don’t want to deal with because it makes the game more complicated.
idk if this will sound bad but, I don't want payday 3 to be payday 2, I am not gonna lie, payday 3 armour system doesn't work and it is anti-fun or bad game design whatever, but I just appreciate that payday 3 atleast tried to be different, like payday 2 vs payday the heist, both are very different gameplay wise but still enjoyable, I can't say the same for payday 3 armour system atleast cause I love the gun play on the game and it is the best it ever been in my opinion, but the armour fucks it all, its just I don't want it to be just payday 2.2. I hope they can fix the armor system soon, maybe after year 1 the game will become enjoyable? Hope so atleast
I'm gonna say as someone who has played since launch. The vast majority of the playerbase does not understand how armor works to begin with. Instead of sitting around and avoiding combat. You want to be getting stuff done as quickly as possible. Not prolonging the heist and sitting around in a corner. At launch this worked wonderfully, because you had limited resources and could go down. Blue Armor reduces the damage taken by 25% and 10% of the damage received will be trauma damage. That is fine and the different armor(s) have different regeneration times when out of combat. Single plate is obviously the fastest to regenerate when out of danger, now. Yes you will take damage that isn't avoidable, however you can also just kill swats faster than they can burn through your resources. Bulldozers and Techies also act as a buffer for a resource drop (Armor Repair Kits) that are worth killing. Because you can either repair a damaged chunk or restore a chunk outside (if you have the skill). Adaptive Armor on the other hand only reduces 5% of the damage taken and does not take trauma damage. Adaptive will break substantially faster than regular armor, however you can use the skill plate up (if you got grit) every two seconds to heal your armor on ammo pickup. This isn't too hard to do and the game itself is pretty easy. The thing that is bad about armor is how the tutorial does not teach you at all how it works, the entire player base largely doesn't understand armor and the game gives you nigh infinite resources anyway. The people who are good at PayDay 3 get rewarded disproportionately more by Adaptive Armor than the people who aren't really that good at the game at all. Calling Adaptive Armor a band-aid fix to the armor system is just wrong. PayDay The Heist and PD2 had armor gating as a core mechanic, in fact in PDTH a Bulldozer killing you could be stopped by good armor gating. The Anarchist perk deck (I believe it is Anarchist) literally hinges on your ability to constantly armor gate in death sentence by restoring your armor. In PDTH and PD2 armor was a buffer before your health took damage, that would regenerate shortly after if you didn't take damage. Like shields in Borderlands, Overwatch and other FPS games. PD3's armor is a health bar that takes damage before your health that can completely run out, which does have means of being replenished. That is not bad game design and plenty of games do this.
That's exactly why it doesn't work, there's already no replayability and the way armour works it makes you want to engage AS LITTLE AS POSSIBLE with the game's fun combat, trying to get to the menu as fast as humanly possible is not a good way to make a game.
@@antynomity People aren't playing the game like a heist would actually go down. It's almost as if, surprisingly, you need to run away from the cops! You're supposed to be in and out as fast as possible. So getting pissed off that you're fundamentally misunderstanding the game is your own fault.
@@r1g0r_m0rt1s I think there's better ways to force people to do things quickly other than making them manage resources. The whole micromanaging thing is, well, simply not fun. And the problem as you can see is the majority agrees with this. With Payday 3's current dwindling player numbers, sticking to a niche design wouldn't be a good idea at this point. But hey, if the game wants to keep the system, that's fine. I just feel like the game could be less of a chore and stop prioritizing functionality over fun. If anything there's still Payday 2 and DoW, if it ends up being a good game.
@@stomcat450 All of the heist take around 10-15 minutes to do. Unless you're going for all cleaned bags on Dirty Ice or 19 bags on Cook Off. The game isn't forcing a speedrun, if anything the game has made it exceedingly easier to get through heist very quickly by the addition of the Transporter Skill Line. Before transporter you would have to do in theory two bag runs on No Rest For The Wicked, which presented a moment of vulnerability where you could go down or lose resources. While running bags, now you don't have to take any risks and just run all 8 or 10 bags to the escape. Hit all of the bollards and wait for Twitch. The thing that makes PayDay fun is having to fight through swats in a "no mans land" (which is how some people like to put it) in order to reach your objective and achieve it. Not circumventing having to fight your way to the overall end goal of the heist.
I actually like this armour much more than payday 2s. In payday 2 armour was infinite and free with all the armour gating, health regening the game is just waaaaay easier than payday 3. I still like payday 2 more as it has much more variety in content as well more stuff to reach for goal wise. I do however like payday 3s gameplay a lot more. In payday 2 the choice un build was binary, full tank or doge anything in between was largely not viable or not fun. In payday 3 I feel like everything is viable you can mix and match to create some fun stuff and dont feel punished for it. Payday 3 is not "hard" but it is a better challenge than payday 2 while still giving more builds the time to breathe. Payday 3 however has some much more glaring issues than the Armor system. The problems with payday 3 arise in the form of 3 main things: 1. Heist variety, the maps dont change much with RNG like in payday so each individual heist seems more static and less dynamic couple that with fewer heists and less frequent updates there's just not much to play. 2. Gun variety, not only are all gun less customisable but we also have fewer of them. This one is the big one for me I loved kitting out my guns fully to change the way each one worked but now its just numbers, a boring bland number crunching exercise. 3. The glitches, while this one seems to be getting better it took them like 4-5 months to patch the game breaking van never returning glitch on cook off. Not to mention all the small bits which seem to keep appearing and not getting removed. To conclude this game has a lot of potential but its being squandered by the devs.
Funny that if you look most people are running adaptive armor. I wonder why maybe starbreeze didn't need to reinvent the wheel. What worked before should have worked now. If they wanted to change it up make it so that you only regen your last chunk of armor whether it's broken or not. That way there is always a slight buffer but not enough that you don't have to be vigilant.
payday 3's armor system doesnt work? HA. My dad's spine doesnt work either. 55+ years of EXCRUTIATING DISC PAIN. bob feet... life aint fair. you millenial snowflakes have bigger things to worry about than electronic video games.
What are you yapping about bro?
@@AngelS-fj1rc yapping? bro? what the hell are you talking about?
@@vain.a im talking about how your yapping about your dad like if its even remotely related to the video
@@vain.aIf only your voice box didn't work because my god you spout so much shite
bro is onto NOTHING
The real problem is that at least one of these things arent at lvl 0 like in pd2 cause that is why people leave.
I played full on heavy in Payday 2, I could go toe to toe with a Dozer, I would be the heavy gunner for my team that would keep the heat off of them when it got hot, but in 3 I can't, I have to run from a Dozer with full tank build because Payday 3 is stealth only, in 3 I am punished for even going loud to the point the game should automatically end the mission with a fail the moment your caught. Me and my friend said it should have regen armour like in payday 2 or regen health when out of combat, have the players work as a team when loud by knowing when to fall back and taking time away from the fire, if people could regen easily they would have no reason to fall back, making them OP, but making it so players need to fall back to regen makes it so they fall back leaving a window for the enemy well the team now has to make sure they can keep that window closed well the other player regens and can go back out there. Payday 3 has non of this and needs it as going loud is pointless and has no team work in it as you can't take turns or cover your team as it does nothing.
The one thing I think this video does wrong is it's points using games that aren't good examples, the video fails to understand that games are different and that they have different ways of doing things when it comes to how the game works, Doom and Ultra Kill are fast pace boomer shooters, they are about constantly moving, killing, there is no stealth, there is no hiding behind cover, it's all about getting in the enemies face and killing them all, DMC is a hack n' slash which is again a fast base combo game, Warframe is a fast pace hero shooter which again is different.
Payday is a slower pace game, it's made to have players have the option to stealth or go loud, the objectives are made to have players hold a point or do something in a place and maybe go form one point to another, you're meant to get behind cover, and push back the cops or hold out against them with moments of breaks, Helldivers was a better point as that one is closer and I agree with the point about hit scans but that's probably due to the fact Hit scans suck dick and games should stop using them unless they are 100% needed, a game with projectiles always feels nicer and plays more strategic
Payday 2 had armour regen which was fine as it was, Payday 3 could of course do better then that but just a simple armour regen would do so much, specially removing hit scanning which makes it awful, the amount of times I walk out somewhere and get constant hit feed that is spammed is ridiculous, plus the game needs the heavy armour or a new full on heavy set like the last set in Payday 2, so players can be tanks and go against Dozers and feel like one with the cost of not being able to do stealth as they are a hulking tank, give the players more stuff to prep and strategies as well as working as a team.
Have a team go in with stealth builds well 1 stays outside with full plate waiting for when things get hot, Like I use to with my brother and friends in payday 2, the game needs to stop punishing players for being loud and punish players for being reckless, reward them for knowing when to fall back and gain their health or armour back, as well as rewarding the team for covering them when they need it too.
But I agree with this video and seeing the bit where armour regen is actually in the game but disabled makes Payday 3 more annoying that it can easily be solved and should.
Agreed. The run, hide, wait system is. Just not effective and most importantly it's not fun. If you're running a trade hostages for resources build, you end up seeing a lot of unused armor repair packs all over the map. So you should be able to repair any broken armor with these repair packs. Also head shot kills or something like that should offer an armor regeneration function too.
Let’s hope you get some more views
Have a very thin layer of rechargeable armor, like 3/4 of an adaptive, have your armor plates count as some sort of like 90% damage goes to plate, 10% to armor, and your armor type will just effect movement and strength of the thin layer
This dodge armor system exist in raid which shows how mio has know idea how to game design/balance
You beat me to it! I have a really good idea for an armor rework that doesnt fully go back to PD2 and doesnt complete throw away PD3's... Im just kinda lazy and making the video presentation is going very slowly in terms of me creating it
yes - having to micro manage 4 health bars is a horrible idea. and every popular or meta build will try to get rid/minimize 1 or 2 of those for the sake of maxxing the mentioned "dodge" machanic.
maybe - just maybe the armor system is just straight up badly designed and should be replaced (instead of tacking another fucking healthbar onto my character)
" Am I out of touch? No, it's the players who are wrong." ~ Mio
Should’ve just stuck with payday 2’s maybe with some tweaks. If it ain’t broke…
It's the tried and true ubisoft method if it ain't broke break it
lol damage IS avoidable, that's what the game is about. i despise adaptive armor and i hope they don't turn p3 into a clown fiesta like p2 is. but they probably will.
5:06 nice transition 👍
**GALS IN PURPLE**
0:26 playday 3
How about a no armor options that adds more space to overheal and 1 extra down
I got flamed by everyone on reddit for saying that loud isnt fun except you play on normal - hard with adaptive armor
I fail to see how adding the dodge system you proposed would solve the issues you have with the other health systems in the game. While it could be really cool for build variety, something the game needs, wouldn't it just be yet another "withdraw from combat to replenish" type resource? You spent a good part of the video gassing up other health systems in other games and how they reward the player for engaging in combat, but i just can't see that same philosophy being reflected in your proposed solution (apart from that one idea for a skill consuming edge to replenish dodge).
It feels like you want trauma damage and armor plates as a finite resource out of the game, and you overengineered another armor system without all of that on top of what we already have.
I understand people don’t like having another resource but I just don’t see the issue.
I mean regenerating armor also has bad design. It forces the player to step aside and just wait for the armor to heal.
At this point, why not just have call of duty regenerate health? Why even have armor?
It seems more like something people just don’t want to deal with because it makes the game more complicated.
idk if this will sound bad but, I don't want payday 3 to be payday 2, I am not gonna lie, payday 3 armour system doesn't work and it is anti-fun or bad game design whatever, but I just appreciate that payday 3 atleast tried to be different, like payday 2 vs payday the heist, both are very different gameplay wise but still enjoyable, I can't say the same for payday 3 armour system atleast cause I love the gun play on the game and it is the best it ever been in my opinion, but the armour fucks it all, its just I don't want it to be just payday 2.2.
I hope they can fix the armor system soon, maybe after year 1 the game will become enjoyable? Hope so atleast
I'm gonna say as someone who has played since launch. The vast majority of the playerbase does not understand how armor works to begin with. Instead of sitting around and avoiding combat. You want to be getting stuff done as quickly as possible. Not prolonging the heist and sitting around in a corner. At launch this worked wonderfully, because you had limited resources and could go down.
Blue Armor reduces the damage taken by 25% and 10% of the damage received will be trauma damage. That is fine and the different armor(s) have different regeneration times when out of combat. Single plate is obviously the fastest to regenerate when out of danger, now. Yes you will take damage that isn't avoidable, however you can also just kill swats faster than they can burn through your resources. Bulldozers and Techies also act as a buffer for a resource drop (Armor Repair Kits) that are worth killing. Because you can either repair a damaged chunk or restore a chunk outside (if you have the skill).
Adaptive Armor on the other hand only reduces 5% of the damage taken and does not take trauma damage. Adaptive will break substantially faster than regular armor, however you can use the skill plate up (if you got grit) every two seconds to heal your armor on ammo pickup. This isn't too hard to do and the game itself is pretty easy.
The thing that is bad about armor is how the tutorial does not teach you at all how it works, the entire player base largely doesn't understand armor and the game gives you nigh infinite resources anyway. The people who are good at PayDay 3 get rewarded disproportionately more by Adaptive Armor than the people who aren't really that good at the game at all. Calling Adaptive Armor a band-aid fix to the armor system is just wrong. PayDay The Heist and PD2 had armor gating as a core mechanic, in fact in PDTH a Bulldozer killing you could be stopped by good armor gating. The Anarchist perk deck (I believe it is Anarchist) literally hinges on your ability to constantly armor gate in death sentence by restoring your armor.
In PDTH and PD2 armor was a buffer before your health took damage, that would regenerate shortly after if you didn't take damage. Like shields in Borderlands, Overwatch and other FPS games. PD3's armor is a health bar that takes damage before your health that can completely run out, which does have means of being replenished. That is not bad game design and plenty of games do this.
It's not bad game design, but it's simply not fun. Having to get stuff done as quickly as possible is basically forcing a speedrun.
That's exactly why it doesn't work, there's already no replayability and the way armour works it makes you want to engage AS LITTLE AS POSSIBLE with the game's fun combat, trying to get to the menu as fast as humanly possible is not a good way to make a game.
@@antynomity People aren't playing the game like a heist would actually go down. It's almost as if, surprisingly, you need to run away from the cops! You're supposed to be in and out as fast as possible.
So getting pissed off that you're fundamentally misunderstanding the game is your own fault.
@@r1g0r_m0rt1s I think there's better ways to force people to do things quickly other than making them manage resources. The whole micromanaging thing is, well, simply not fun. And the problem as you can see is the majority agrees with this. With Payday 3's current dwindling player numbers, sticking to a niche design wouldn't be a good idea at this point.
But hey, if the game wants to keep the system, that's fine. I just feel like the game could be less of a chore and stop prioritizing functionality over fun. If anything there's still Payday 2 and DoW, if it ends up being a good game.
@@stomcat450 All of the heist take around 10-15 minutes to do. Unless you're going for all cleaned bags on Dirty Ice or 19 bags on Cook Off. The game isn't forcing a speedrun, if anything the game has made it exceedingly easier to get through heist very quickly by the addition of the Transporter Skill Line.
Before transporter you would have to do in theory two bag runs on No Rest For The Wicked, which presented a moment of vulnerability where you could go down or lose resources. While running bags, now you don't have to take any risks and just run all 8 or 10 bags to the escape. Hit all of the bollards and wait for Twitch.
The thing that makes PayDay fun is having to fight through swats in a "no mans land" (which is how some people like to put it) in order to reach your objective and achieve it. Not circumventing having to fight your way to the overall end goal of the heist.
I actually like this armour much more than payday 2s. In payday 2 armour was infinite and free with all the armour gating, health regening the game is just waaaaay easier than payday 3. I still like payday 2 more as it has much more variety in content as well more stuff to reach for goal wise. I do however like payday 3s gameplay a lot more. In payday 2 the choice un build was binary, full tank or doge anything in between was largely not viable or not fun. In payday 3 I feel like everything is viable you can mix and match to create some fun stuff and dont feel punished for it. Payday 3 is not "hard" but it is a better challenge than payday 2 while still giving more builds the time to breathe. Payday 3 however has some much more glaring issues than the Armor system. The problems with payday 3 arise in the form of 3 main things: 1. Heist variety, the maps dont change much with RNG like in payday so each individual heist seems more static and less dynamic couple that with fewer heists and less frequent updates there's just not much to play. 2. Gun variety, not only are all gun less customisable but we also have fewer of them. This one is the big one for me I loved kitting out my guns fully to change the way each one worked but now its just numbers, a boring bland number crunching exercise. 3. The glitches, while this one seems to be getting better it took them like 4-5 months to patch the game breaking van never returning glitch on cook off. Not to mention all the small bits which seem to keep appearing and not getting removed. To conclude this game has a lot of potential but its being squandered by the devs.
Does he know? 💀💀💀💀💀💀⬇
Funny that if you look most people are running adaptive armor. I wonder why maybe starbreeze didn't need to reinvent the wheel. What worked before should have worked now. If they wanted to change it up make it so that you only regen your last chunk of armor whether it's broken or not. That way there is always a slight buffer but not enough that you don't have to be vigilant.
Someone didn’t run dsod