these are such a valuable resource for climbers and beginner climbers... really hope you keep it up, you're a great teacher and have a really nice camera manner. cheers!
For me there are 4 things that influences the fit of a climbing shoe: 1) Toe shape - Are you greek, egyptian, roman etc? I’m a greek/roman which means my first tree toes are quite evenly long and my third toe would hurt a lot in skwama because the front of the shoe cuts back too much. The unparallel regulus or tenaya mastia fits very well. 2) Width - how wide your feet are from side to side 3) Volume - do you have high arch or low arch? 4) Heel size - some shoes have big heel cups while some have smaller heel cups. Unparallel regulus and mad rock drone both have small heel cups while la sportiva solutions, skwama have bigger heel cups
For years, climbing shops sold rock boots with dodgy advice like- “ They’re meant to hurt. They’ll stretch in time” etc. Confusing, not just for the tyro.
Dave, can you get La Sportiva to put a toe patch on the Otaki ? That would be my perfect bouldering shoe. Can't see why they don't do it already. PS the kataki are awesome on vertical peak limestone. Vlog is brilliant, the most professional one around.
same here. most la sportiva are just too narrow but the skwarma are just perfect. best shoe ive owned. the grip rubber wears of a bit fast, but oh well... most scarpa like the boostic would also a good fit if you like the skwarma shape
Great stuff Dave! Agreed with so many things in this vid esp that fitting your foot well is king. You mentioned you wear Skwama's in size 38-39 depending on use. As a sizing reference for us what is your street or La Sportiva approach shoe size? Or size you wear in other LS models?
Agree Skwama and Solution are magic shoes. Size well and get the best shoes you can - then you can’t blame your sorry footwork on your choice of your shoes
I remember wearing out 2pairs of EB's...then an early pair of Brixia crag...definitely NOT for narrow,delicate stuff but they were good looking and comfy...all day on Skye etc...wonderful ,grand boots. Then along came Firés and all hell was let loose.If a boot wasn't a shoe...nope.If it didn't say high histersis(or similar)...nope. If they didn't mention "the valley" or some "wunderkind"...nope. I crumbled and got a pair of eb style sticky rubber boots by an american valley climber, I reckoned I had everthing sorted...bloody things tore me to ribbons if I wore them for 10 minutes! Ripped my heels badly.Put crack tape on my heels,not on my hands.Still tore me up. Luckily,I moved country,and fell out of climbing.Now feeling my way back via uchoob.My slippers are my rock shoes now. Oh yeah,the "canyons",yvonne chuinards boots?They got attacked by a stanley knife and now perform on cape town boulders on the feet of a friend...as minimalist shoes!
I have to say after climbing a few years. Skwamas are incredible shoes for advanced and intermediate climbers. But due to having bad lateral support, aka they twist easy they are bad for beginners. They are my favourite shoes.
Thanks for a good video. Where do you find enough range to try different fits and properties, though? I'm based in Glasgow and most shops I've been so far stock a couple La Sportiva models at most. I could order online just to try the fit of different shoes but it seems very inefficient.
I believe lot of pro climber, who are generaly really light weight are using really soft shoes whereas "amateur" (and probably heavier) climbers should probably choose stiffer shoes. For example, I am using the tenaya Oasi for 3-4 years now, used by Megos and many other. This shoe is a confort glove and perfect for indoor climbing and smear, but when it comes to incut foot hold in overhanging terrain, it really lacks of stiffness and it can become really hard just because of that! Now I am so used to this shoe that every other shoe feel weird and unconfortable. Any advice Dave to readapt to a pair of stiffer climbing shoe ? Thank you for the videos that are spot on the subjects that interest me!
I also climb in oasi's and like the fit. For a stiffer shoe try the Masai lace-up, also by Tenaya or the 5.10 pink anasazi's. Although both those shoes are quite flat with little to no downturn (not ideal for overhanging routes) the model equally feels comfortable to me and both have stiffer soles then the oasi.
One of the struggles I have is a right foot that is slightly longer and a right heel that is slightly more pronounced. I get a moderate numbness at the back of my heel from rock shoes and so I've started removing them as much as is practical. I have Scarpa Force V's as my comfort shoe and a new pair of La Sportiva Katana laces as I repair the Scarpas. The Katana's seem to so far fluctuate during wear from relatively painful at the heel to just tight (probably from induced numbness). I've placed a shoe stretcher in the right one whenever I'm not using them in the hopes that it may offer a slight improvement on the tightness. I'm concerned about the nerve running over the back of my heel though. I have to try to avoid direct right heel hooks in my soft Scarpas as I compressed (painfully) the nerve once and it felt like a knife going into my foot. Dave, have you ever suffered from this heel numbness at all?
Idk why but the solutions felt so bad on my feet and the shamans fit absolutely perfect. I was pissed when I learned this tho cause I think evolves rubber is inferior
Skwamas are by far my favorite shoe I’ve ever tried. I definitely need to pickup another pair. I’ve been trying other brands just because I’ve been able to snag really good deals (I paid 50 dollars for my butora acros, new) but they just don’t heel hook like my skwamas. Plus the skwamas feel a little bit softer and j like that more
Thanks for the input! But. What to do if I found the perfect shoes for my feet, which is Katana Lacea from lasportiva. But for what ever reason my feet grew a size bigger and now I would need them in UK 12 but the biggest size they produce UK 11. I tried many different shoes none fit or I got other problems. Ask lasportiva for a costume sized shoe? Any other ideas?
Try other shoe models. If your feet grew there is a good chance they are no longer the same shape. In other words your feet probably did not grow consistently in all directions.
Amazing video! I wish you would've also touched on shoe stretch as that's also a thing with leather, leather lined and synthetic shoes. I also have massively wide feet. The Skwama fits so well but the heel is too baggy for me. Been recently trying out the Boreal Satori and after a short break-in they seem to be very good. Another good shoe for wide feet is the Mad Rock Shark 2.0. Both of these shoes won't stretch much compared to the La Sportiva Skwama. I also have a pair of Miura VS which is one size BIGGER than my street shoe size. This made the shoe flatten out and into a super comfortable all-round performance shoe.
I know in running you have to be careful of injuries when you change shoes, does the same thing apply in climbing? I climbed for years in solutions and then changed shoes and soon after got bad feet pain.
You probably just picked a shoe that doesnt suit you. Somtimes they might feel ok when you try them on but then you climb in them and discover that they are too tight in an area. Also keep in mind as Dave mentioned in this video that you should be taking your shoes off when not climbing to give your feet a break, especially if they are a very tight and agressive pair.
Great vlog as always but please can you mix the music down in volume at the end? It’s so very much louder than the speech, it makes me jump out of my skin every time. All your vlogs have this issue.
Same here. Lace up Miura are the only thing I can even vaguely get snug without being in agony. All the new La Sportiva shoes seem to have gigantic amounts of space in the heel which makes them all rubbish for hooking with my, apparently, dainty ankles.
@graham Is your first toe longer than your big toe? If so try Evolve Royals or similar. If not and your foot is widest at the ball of your foot try scarpa helix. If either of these fit but aren't technical enough try sticking to the brand that works but go more technical.
@@nacnud2323 - I have a very (very) broad foot with a very pronounced / high instep. This seems to need more volume than any rock shoe that I have found to date. This combined with a narrow heel means any rock shoes I have tried do not fit well.
There should be something out there that fits. In general heels are bigger than they need to be so they fit the most amount of people. The best place to go is a climbing town (Lakes, N. Wales, Sheffield etc. ) where there are multiple shops with 40+ pairs of shoes in each, and you might need to try them all on, and in multiple sizes. Once you find the right shoe it just works, like Dave says above. When fitting shoes I spend the most amount of time getting the toe box to fit, once that works well it can be a bit pot luck to get the instep and heel to fit but they are not as critical unless you are climbing extremely hard all the time. Fitting someone with shoes I first look at their bare feet to assess toe shape (mortons toe etc) and width (wedge shape feet, parallel sided feet etc) this is just done by eye and the differences can be subtle if you're not use to looking at feet. If you turn over a rock shoe and look at the sole it should match the shape of the foot you want to put in it. Once I have an idea of toe shape and width I'll check toe flexibility. The more flexible the toes and the harder they are wanting to climb the more volume the toe box needs as the more squished the toes tend to be. I climb with my toes squished right up as I actually crimp with my toes on holds, pretty much using my toes like hands. This means I need a large volume toe box and I wear my shoes very small so there is no gap between my crimping toes and the shoe. Some people can hardly bend their toes at all so they would need a much flatter, lower volume shoe that is much closer to their street shoe size, trying to fit your feet into small shoes because thats what you have heard is best is a painfully bad idea, don't do it! As an example of sizes the shoes I wear, from technical to comfy are, La Sportiva Solution (41) Scarpa Vapor Lace (old) (42), Scarpa Vapor V (old) (42), 5.10 Anasazi Pink (old) (8.5), 5.10 Gambit (9.5), La Sportiva TX2 (45). There is no way to work out sizes without trying them on. You can also get a bit more leeway by using laces as this gives you more adjustment. Now having never seen your feet, and just guessing at the grades you climb, I'd suggest trying the Scapa Maestro Eco Lace in about a size smaller than your trainer size. You will need to try shoes bigger and smaller than this to check sizes. I'm assuming you have wide feet without Morton's toe, averagely flexible toes and that you are climbing the mid sixes french. You will probably have space either side of your heel but that isn't a problem so long as it is tight on your achilles and doesn't come off while heel hooking. Ok that was longer than I was expecting! Really though, ignore all that and get to a decent shop with 40+ pairs to try on!
these are such a valuable resource for climbers and beginner climbers... really hope you keep it up, you're a great teacher and have a really nice camera manner. cheers!
The calm and measured approach that you take in structuring your VLogs is exceptional; they are a truly great resource. Thank you!
For me there are 4 things that influences the fit of a climbing shoe:
1) Toe shape - Are you greek, egyptian, roman etc? I’m a greek/roman which means my first tree toes are quite evenly long and my third toe would hurt a lot in skwama because the front of the shoe cuts back too much. The unparallel regulus or tenaya mastia fits very well.
2) Width - how wide your feet are from side to side
3) Volume - do you have high arch or low arch?
4) Heel size - some shoes have big heel cups while some have smaller heel cups. Unparallel regulus and mad rock drone both have small heel cups while la sportiva solutions, skwama have bigger heel cups
Been selling climbing shoes for many many years, this advice is spot on. Thank you.
That footwork at 1:48. Pwooor lovely. Video on implementing technique drill/training into a routine?
For years, climbing shops sold rock boots with dodgy advice like- “ They’re meant to hurt. They’ll stretch in time” etc. Confusing, not just for the tyro.
Dave, can you get La Sportiva to put a toe patch on the Otaki ? That would be my perfect bouldering shoe. Can't see why they don't do it already. PS the kataki are awesome on vertical peak limestone.
Vlog is brilliant, the most professional one around.
really loving this series Dave, thank you!
I get on really well with sportivas, not so much with 5:10 (the classic heel issues)
Hiangles dont have the classic baggy heel
same here. most la sportiva are just too narrow but the skwarma are just perfect. best shoe ive owned. the grip rubber wears of a bit fast, but oh well... most scarpa like the boostic would also a good fit if you like the skwarma shape
Great stuff Dave! Agreed with so many things in this vid esp that fitting your foot well is king. You mentioned you wear Skwama's in size 38-39 depending on use. As a sizing reference for us what is your street or La Sportiva approach shoe size? Or size you wear in other LS models?
Agree Skwama and Solution are magic shoes. Size well and get the best shoes you can - then you can’t blame your sorry footwork on your choice of your shoes
I remember wearing out 2pairs of EB's...then an early pair of Brixia crag...definitely NOT for narrow,delicate stuff but they were good looking and comfy...all day on Skye etc...wonderful ,grand boots.
Then along came Firés and all hell was let loose.If a boot wasn't a shoe...nope.If it didn't say high histersis(or similar)...nope.
If they didn't mention "the valley"
or some "wunderkind"...nope.
I crumbled and got a pair of eb style sticky rubber boots by an american valley climber,
I reckoned I had everthing sorted...bloody things tore me to ribbons if I wore them for 10 minutes! Ripped my heels badly.Put crack tape on my heels,not on my hands.Still tore me up.
Luckily,I moved country,and fell out of climbing.Now feeling my way back via uchoob.My slippers are my rock shoes now.
Oh yeah,the "canyons",yvonne chuinards boots?They got attacked by a stanley knife and now perform on cape town boulders on the feet of a friend...as minimalist shoes!
thanks dave, appreciate these videos.
I just watched this and the advert that appeared after was for Subway, maybe it's Dave's new secret diet but i doubt it 🤣🤣
Awesome Dave, great info... justification to buy more shoes :-)
Loved it when you said "for example..."
Tried probably more then 40 pairs of different brands, models and sizes before finding the ones that work for me
I have to say after climbing a few years. Skwamas are incredible shoes for advanced and intermediate climbers. But due to having bad lateral support, aka they twist easy they are bad for beginners. They are my favourite shoes.
Thanks for a good video. Where do you find enough range to try different fits and properties, though? I'm based in Glasgow and most shops I've been so far stock a couple La Sportiva models at most. I could order online just to try the fit of different shoes but it seems very inefficient.
I believe lot of pro climber, who are generaly really light weight are using really soft shoes whereas "amateur" (and probably heavier) climbers should probably choose stiffer shoes.
For example, I am using the tenaya Oasi for 3-4 years now, used by Megos and many other. This shoe is a confort glove and perfect for indoor climbing and smear, but when it comes to incut foot hold in overhanging terrain, it really lacks of stiffness and it can become really hard just because of that!
Now I am so used to this shoe that every other shoe feel weird and unconfortable. Any advice Dave to readapt to a pair of stiffer climbing shoe ?
Thank you for the videos that are spot on the subjects that interest me!
I also climb in oasi's and like the fit. For a stiffer shoe try the Masai lace-up, also by Tenaya or the 5.10 pink anasazi's. Although both those shoes are quite flat with little to no downturn (not ideal for overhanging routes) the model equally feels comfortable to me and both have stiffer soles then the oasi.
One of the struggles I have is a right foot that is slightly longer and a right heel that is slightly more pronounced. I get a moderate numbness at the back of my heel from rock shoes and so I've started removing them as much as is practical.
I have Scarpa Force V's as my comfort shoe and a new pair of La Sportiva Katana laces as I repair the Scarpas. The Katana's seem to so far fluctuate during wear from relatively painful at the heel to just tight (probably from induced numbness). I've placed a shoe stretcher in the right one whenever I'm not using them in the hopes that it may offer a slight improvement on the tightness.
I'm concerned about the nerve running over the back of my heel though. I have to try to avoid direct right heel hooks in my soft Scarpas as I compressed (painfully) the nerve once and it felt like a knife going into my foot.
Dave, have you ever suffered from this heel numbness at all?
Hey Dave- what is your street size/La Sportiva approach shoe size for reference?
Idk why but the solutions felt so bad on my feet and the shamans fit absolutely perfect. I was pissed when I learned this tho cause I think evolves rubber is inferior
When they are ready to be resoled then choose the rubber you like best to resole them.
What he said.
Skwamas are by far my favorite shoe I’ve ever tried. I definitely need to pickup another pair. I’ve been trying other brands just because I’ve been able to snag really good deals (I paid 50 dollars for my butora acros, new) but they just don’t heel hook like my skwamas. Plus the skwamas feel a little bit softer and j like that more
Thanks for the input!
But.
What to do if I found the perfect shoes for my feet, which is Katana Lacea from lasportiva. But for what ever reason my feet grew a size bigger and now I would need them in UK 12 but the biggest size they produce UK 11. I tried many different shoes none fit or I got other problems.
Ask lasportiva for a costume sized shoe?
Any other ideas?
Try other shoe models. If your feet grew there is a good chance they are no longer the same shape. In other words your feet probably did not grow consistently in all directions.
Amazing video! I wish you would've also touched on shoe stretch as that's also a thing with leather, leather lined and synthetic shoes.
I also have massively wide feet. The Skwama fits so well but the heel is too baggy for me. Been recently trying out the Boreal Satori and after a short break-in they seem to be very good. Another good shoe for wide feet is the Mad Rock Shark 2.0. Both of these shoes won't stretch much compared to the La Sportiva Skwama.
I also have a pair of Miura VS which is one size BIGGER than my street shoe size. This made the shoe flatten out and into a super comfortable all-round performance shoe.
can you recommend shoes for feet that are EE width and have a shallow heel?
If you could name one shoe that you would wear but it is not your sponsor's brand, what would be it?
What size are your street shoes Dave? You must have tiny feet to get in a size 5!
I know in running you have to be careful of injuries when you change shoes, does the same thing apply in climbing? I climbed for years in solutions and then changed shoes and soon after got bad feet pain.
You probably just picked a shoe that doesnt suit you. Somtimes they might feel ok when you try them on but then you climb in them and discover that they are too tight in an area. Also keep in mind as Dave mentioned in this video that you should be taking your shoes off when not climbing to give your feet a break, especially if they are a very tight and agressive pair.
Great vlog as always but please can you mix the music down in volume at the end? It’s so very much louder than the speech, it makes me jump out of my skin every time. All your vlogs have this issue.
Nice....
Must be my flipper feet. Have never found a pair of rock shoes that fit my feet well.
Same here. Lace up Miura are the only thing I can even vaguely get snug without being in agony. All the new La Sportiva shoes seem to have gigantic amounts of space in the heel which makes them all rubbish for hooking with my, apparently, dainty ankles.
@ tony Have you tried the tenaya masai?
@graham Is your first toe longer than your big toe? If so try Evolve Royals or similar. If not and your foot is widest at the ball of your foot try scarpa helix. If either of these fit but aren't technical enough try sticking to the brand that works but go more technical.
@@nacnud2323 - I have a very (very) broad foot with a very pronounced / high instep. This seems to need more volume than any rock shoe that I have found to date. This combined with a narrow heel means any rock shoes I have tried do not fit well.
There should be something out there that fits. In general heels are bigger than they need to be so they fit the most amount of people. The best place to go is a climbing town (Lakes, N. Wales, Sheffield etc. ) where there are multiple shops with 40+ pairs of shoes in each, and you might need to try them all on, and in multiple sizes. Once you find the right shoe it just works, like Dave says above. When fitting shoes I spend the most amount of time getting the toe box to fit, once that works well it can be a bit pot luck to get the instep and heel to fit but they are not as critical unless you are climbing extremely hard all the time.
Fitting someone with shoes I first look at their bare feet to assess toe shape (mortons toe etc) and width (wedge shape feet, parallel sided feet etc) this is just done by eye and the differences can be subtle if you're not use to looking at feet. If you turn over a rock shoe and look at the sole it should match the shape of the foot you want to put in it. Once I have an idea of toe shape and width I'll check toe flexibility. The more flexible the toes and the harder they are wanting to climb the more volume the toe box needs as the more squished the toes tend to be. I climb with my toes squished right up as I actually crimp with my toes on holds, pretty much using my toes like hands. This means I need a large volume toe box and I wear my shoes very small so there is no gap between my crimping toes and the shoe. Some people can hardly bend their toes at all so they would need a much flatter, lower volume shoe that is much closer to their street shoe size, trying to fit your feet into small shoes because thats what you have heard is best is a painfully bad idea, don't do it! As an example of sizes the shoes I wear, from technical to comfy are, La Sportiva Solution (41) Scarpa Vapor Lace (old) (42), Scarpa Vapor V (old) (42), 5.10 Anasazi Pink (old) (8.5), 5.10 Gambit (9.5), La Sportiva TX2 (45). There is no way to work out sizes without trying them on. You can also get a bit more leeway by using laces as this gives you more adjustment.
Now having never seen your feet, and just guessing at the grades you climb, I'd suggest trying the Scapa Maestro Eco Lace in about a size smaller than your trainer size. You will need to try shoes bigger and smaller than this to check sizes. I'm assuming you have wide feet without Morton's toe, averagely flexible toes and that you are climbing the mid sixes french. You will probably have space either side of your heel but that isn't a problem so long as it is tight on your achilles and doesn't come off while heel hooking.
Ok that was longer than I was expecting! Really though, ignore all that and get to a decent shop with 40+ pairs to try on!
Nice outro