Hi Woody, after watching nearly all of your videos and having gotten many Ideas and tips out of them I finally can give something back. I Started working with MIDI and sequencers in the 80s, first with Kawai Q-80 and then Atari ST, later I used MMT-8, QY700 and several MPCs (2000XL, 4000, 2500) and also tried Yamaha RM1x and RS7000 (ugh), Electribe 2 and both Novation Circuits. I also had the Fantom 6 since it was released but sold it about 2 weeks ago. I currently have Maschine plus, MC-101 and MC-707 as well as the Synthstrom Deluge (which you did not mention, but I come back to that one later). Here are my remarks: Ableton Push standalone: no arranger, TRS MIDI, too pricy, USB Host is MIDI only ATM. MC-707: few controls, assignable, battery power over ripcord with powerbank possible. It is great at a sound module for the standard ZenCore tones, expansions will load, but no synth models, no SN sounds or other extras. Tracks can have either one tone or one per clip, so 16 different tones per Track are possible, I use the Tracks as categories for my livesets, so I have E-Pianos on Track 1, Basses at 2, Leads at 3 and so on. No direct Access to tones, but you can use Program changes (eg with the ESI Xjam controller). Clips are grouped in Scenes and those can be launched in 2 modes or per program change on the global channel. Sampling is ok, limited in memory, SD card access and startup time is really slow. There is no export function for Tones and MIDI files, but you can import those. It has 2 MIDI outputs you can adress those separately but MIDI Channels are global and not per Project, so you have to have a fixed channel setup. Clips can have up to 128 steps (8 Bars), there is Clip and Scene Chain, but no Arranger/Song mode which is a real downer, because you have to go into each clip to change the chaining, same with scene chain. Another downer is that you have to set an extra parameter step length in order to play a clip to its end before changing to the next one. You only get automation lanes and not parameter locks like on the Elektron machines, and only 4 parameters at the same time. Handling: you have to know the shortcuts otherwise you’re lost in Menu diving. All this lead me to use it more as a sound module especially since I didn’t use my Fantom anymore, since the sequencer is not that capable for external use. Together with the Maschine Plus its a great combo, since it has all that „bread&butter“ sounds Maschine plus is missing because M+ is more Synthesizer and Sampler. Nice extra: Headphone out has a separate volume knob and there is a cue function that can be set to the headphone, and metronome can also be routed to headphone only. You have 2 Pairs of external inputs and so can be used as a mixer, setting one or 2 tracks up with external input with the faders controlling the volume of the external gear. This channel can’t be used for tones then, but still for MIDI. USB has 2 Modes, Vendor and Generic. In Vendor Mode it needs a driver to get all 8 Stereo channels over USB plus MIDI. After massive request Roland added a generic mode with classcompliant Audio (Stereo Mix only), MIDI already was class compliant with all channels available. BTW: Tracks don’t send MIDI per default (only receive), you have to enable that in Tracks setting. M+ can be powered with Birdcord PD 15V and PD powerbank, supports only VST2 ATM (important when you exchange projects with the software), sample and synths, arranger with independent and unique clips, MIDIfile import/export via software, expansions are often packed with effects so better change those to send instead of insert effects, not all of NIs expansions work. People running into problems because they try to use it like the software and don't think about the hardware limitations when using soft synths and especially insert effects on each track. Solid build, real DIN MIDI, 2 USB Hostports for MIDI and Audio (class compliant), even old Emagic MIDI interfaces are supported (I maintain a compatibility list). A hub can be connected and so many devices can be connected at the same time. There are many Templates for external MIDI instruments to control and you can assemble ones yourself (only in the Software). Best controller for live to hookup is the Maschine Jam, it gives you the missing controls like Step sequencing and Fader controls for mixers. Beware of their controller keyboards, they are not that useful as many people think, since you can’t do splits in native mode and a soon as one of those is connected it always becomes the master without any chance of changing that. Note editing is great with the 4D encoder and the two screens, much better than any touchscreen I’ve ever worked with. I highly recommend watching Jef Gibbons’ videos on M+ any maybe joining the M+ Facebook group. MPC One: strange workflow, no clean slate on start, limit of 8 plugins per track, list Editor doesn’t allow change of note timestamp, Touchscreen fiddly for note editing, has noting to to with the older MPCs which have a completely different workflow. You forgot or overlooked one important candidate: The Synthstrom Deluge. It covers all of your needs for an idea pad on the couch as well as being a very capable MIDI sequencer. ATM USB and MIDI are tied together, but since the Firmware is now open Source there are already many expansions to the original one and those work great. Usabilty got much better with the new OLED display, it has a built-in standard type rechargeable Li-Battery and a speaker. I use it as idea pad when sitting on the couch but I also did a liveset with it, acting as sequencer for my MC-707. It has unlimited tracks and an arranger mode, but it is all based on colours. MIDIfiles can be imported/exported with a 3rd party software and there are many other helper tools and also sound sets. It can’t be bought in music shops, only at Synthstrom in New Zealand but they ship with DHL Express which is very fast. It also is in your price range. There are many tutorials out there, especially by Ron Cavagnaro. As a sequencer heart of a complete setup it is not as capable as Maschine Plus since there is only one MIDI IN/OUT and you may need a Thrubox or MIDI Patchbay (like MIDIHub or CME U6MIDI Pro) but it is the most immediate device of all - instant on, no booting time, you can load while play and so on. The internal Synth engine sounds a little harsh sometimes but for sketching ideas it is perfect, you can switch the track to MIDI with one button. Incoming MIDI must be „learned“ and there is no template function yet (but you can save a Song and use it as such), handling heavily relies on Shortcuts but you get used to it, since those are quite logical. Well, this was very long but I hope it is of some help. If you have any questions, feel free to ask :)
there is some great insight here from someone who owne the instruments that i think many of you will find interesting. thanks for the info. re the deluge, it seems to be removed from Thomann here in EU, and I seem to remember it being over budget, but yes, I agree an interesting contender, but I went for more mainstream options here.
strange, I was sure I had answered again but its gone - maybe I made a mistake since I dont comment on yt very often. Anyway: many thanks for pinning my post! Regarding the Deluge I don't recall it ever being available in any music shop since it has to be ordered directly at the manufacturer in New Zealand. I think you already made the best decision by chosing Maschine plus, since it is a real powerful MIDI sequencer with Pattern, scenes, uniques, clips and expanding MIDI capabilities. Another quick tip: M+ accepts USB Ethernet adapters on its USB hostports and so you can put it in airplane mode which switches off WLAN but uses wired Ethernet instead. Use standard USB Ethernet ones, it does not work with Gigabit types, the now discontinued Apple USB ethernet Adaptors work great, but they have no status LEDs like others. I forgot to mention that on NIs website there is a Powerbank Guide, recommending mobile power solutions for the M+. I also maintain a list of user tested external USB hardware so anyone can see what devices work on the USB host ports (with new additions currently being tested and added), see: docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1e7kNQ0-_-kYUW6OvzBXJ-28ZuRHCEgyGaxpEu-XhSvY/edit?usp=sharing I am looking forward to see videos with you getting Maschine plus!
I'm no expert on equipment. Will say my Digitakt is probably my favorite piece of music related gear I've ever bought. People talk about the learning curve and it was making me nervous before ordering one. If you watch a couple TH-cam videos on the basic workflow it's really easy to figure out. Then you just take it a step at a time, making beats and figuring out each thing as you go along. Endless hours of fun and these little boxes sound amazing.
Nice video. I can highly recommend the MPC Live. It has a workflow that is very mature and intuitive and it is really easy to use for recording stuff in away from your computer. When your’re done it is is also very easy to explode and export your tracks to a DAW for final arranging, mixing and editing. The battery is actually very useful on the couch: no hassle with adapters. It is one of those machines that keeps on giving, just like the Elektron Analog Four.
I own the MC-101, the SH-4d, an MPC Live II and recently got the Syntakt. Basically the MPC boxes are the only standalone hardware that cover everything you want. The MPC One+ is nice but if you stretch the budget a bit, I would actually recommend the Live II. Why? Well very nice pads, great touchscreen, built-in rechargeable battery and built-in speakers (which are actually pretty good), the storage is expandable, and it has more ways to connect it to other gear than any other groovebox I know of.
For the full standalone hardware experience I would recommend MPC Live as it has decent editing via it's touchscreen, battery, built in instruments and effects, multiple MIDI and CV ports. It can also load legacy AKAI disks. The built in space for SSD is amazing. I am thinking it could hold every sample and multisample group I can think of. The biggest selling point I think is the latency is 0.3ms and IMHO is far more robust and stable. so it's fantastic for live performance. I think it's the best choice for a workflow that bridges more towards DAWless music creation and editing which still provides a way to get the material created on it into the DAW when needed through the MPC software. It has duplex means of transferring between DAW and DAWlessness with the least amount of friction. Downside - no disk streaming which impacts audio tracking and the loading of large multisample libraries. Maschine+ has this allowing for both audio recording takes and loading many multisampled instances of kontakt. However this does come at the expense of overall stability.
I bought the Roland Verselab MV-1 some months ago and was impressed by easy of use. Made some songs in a couple of hours. Thousands of included Roland synth sounds. And the sequencer is also very handy.
Maschine+ is really cool. Sounds fantastic and you can if you want later on load the project into the computer and run the song in the Maschine 2.0 software. I have tried out most of what you mentioned and ended up on the Maschine Plus. You can run it with a USB-C PD battery pack no problem. Edit: And it has internal synths (Bass/polyphonic and FM8) Sampling is possible incl. auto-sampling if you want to have your Yamaha piano in that box 🙂
Hi Woody, Great video. I find myself making the same choice as I am in the situation where I am invested in NI and have been a Maschine user since MKI and have the MKIII and the JAM. It's great to use with the JAM along with the touch strips. it's a shame NI stopped making this. I find NI workflow addresses what I call the hybrid approach which entails DAW to create -> edit -> mix then DAWless to perform -> loop -> play -> special effects for live.
Seems you've already pulled the trigger there. My favourite groovebox is the Digitakt. But if you want to make music on the couch, I'd go for Novation Circuit Tracks. You get two synth tracks, two sequencer tracks and a drum sample player, and it's battery powered. As an ideas thing it is unrivaled, at an affordable price.
Akai Force is great if you like Ableton grid sequencing MIDI approach. I've gone through pretty much every hardware sequencer around, not the latest but if it exists, I've researched it and not been able to afford it, or bought it, used it, keep it or sold it. Akai Force as USB MIDI can do stuff that I have not experienced on other sequencers, it allows for patch and bank changes which is an absolute god send if you want to re-use the same synth on the same set/track/song. I've done this with my DAW but never been able to do it with hardware, the Force can do it and is a must if you're into hardware sequencing. Then the USB element, it acts as a host so anything plugged into it will now come up labeled accordingly. Get a powered USB hub and you can have a ton of hardware hooked up with their assigned labelled connections. The best bit? Only 1 cable for in and out rather than 2 for 5 pin MIDI din. THEN add that it is an amazing sampler, 7 inch screen so works great as a groove box. Still has menu diving, but not as much as the MPC range.
All Arounders: Deluge or Octatrack or Force or iPad Sampling: MPC or Digitak Synthesis: MC707 or Digitone or Syntakt or Analog 4 Arranging: Maschine+ or Polyend or RC505 mk2 Sound Module: SH9d Efx Module: SP404 mk2 Sauce: OP1 or Rytm or Push 3
MPC - instrument's it comes with free in the box electric piano bass synth tube synth hype synth solina stings odessey arp clone synth melotron tape keyboard clone drum synth There's a large selection of free expansion sample packs to download too including a huge selection of drum kits and sampled instruments there's a large range of inbuilt fx also from the usual reverb, delay eq etc to vocal auto tune, guitar amp simulatons , retro lofi as well as utilities like a tuner.
My suggestion would be the Roland MC-101. Had one, sold it off, have regretted it ever since, and may well be picking it up again if I don't go for a Fantom 0. It's small enough to toss in a messenger bag, sounds good enough to use as a sound module, and if you can get past the tiny screen (which isn't as bad as it seems at first blush), it's actually pretty easy/intuitive to use. If you find it doesn't have enough tracks, the 707 raises the total to 8, but doesn't run on batteries (can run on a USB power supply, though, so if you have one of those power brick thingies, that'd be an option).
I have the MPC Key 61, bought it a year ago when it released, full of bugs and weird updates, but despite all of that it has changed the way I make music, it's nice layout like a cassette-deck recorder set of recording buttons, it's Daw-like piano roll, it's direct sampling to key capabilities, 128 track sequencer, and double the internal ram for the Virtual synths that it comes with, made it a winner for me ,and sadly my other synths are now gathering dust (despite its ability to control these as well), because it really is a one-does-all show.
My personal favorite (Probably because I actually own one) out of the ones in this video is the MC-707. I've had one since February as I bought it as a birthday gift for my self. I've ended up working a lot more with samples than I expected but it's mostly been as drums and as oscillator sources for Zen Core. Only things I really want for the MC-707 at this point are support for the model expansions for Zen Core and the wave expansions as well would be nice to have as well as some kind of massive patching interface for when doing nothing but sound design to put all those knobs on the thing to full use more often. I've had a lot of fun with my MC-707 personally but it can definitely devolve into menu diving purgatory when doing sound design but that's an issue with near all the Zen Core hardware because Roland had to throw everything and the kitchen sink at it. The synth engine is still bonkers to have in a standalone devices and I knew going into it I was making the typical Roland trade off of a really powerful synth engine with some questionable UI decisions. It's the Roland way at this point, it's nearly part of the brand image these days. I did consider the Maschine+ and an MPC of some kind but the Maschine+ lost out in part because of the fact a lot of people have ran into issues with sound problems when it's pushed some what hard and the MPC family even with the new plugins still feel overtly sample focused which isn't something I actually use a ton of outside of drums because of the kind of music I like to make. Elektron's boxes just feel like they are weirdly knee capped to me in odd ways and I don't jive with the workflow as a concept and didn't know any one who I could borrow a Digitone or Digitakt from for a while to check it out. Doesn't help I'm a massive sucker for the Roland sound which the MC-707 delivers by the truckload.
Elektron gets some stick as the hardware is really low spec for the price, samplers from the 90s and 00s outperform the Digitakt old Akai, Emu, Yamaha samplers have more memory.
Great review! Something to consider given your “studio hub” objective, if you like the MPC One look at the MPC Key61. It’s an expanded MPC with keyboard and all the “missing” synths included. The sequencer makes it a better “Workstation” keyboard than many other choices. A Fairlight for the New Millennium, possibly….
Don't worry about battery power. You are better off ignoring that as DC-USB adapters exist for any groovebox, fully trivializing the lack of batteries and allowing you to use as big of a portable battery bank as you wish.
Hi Woody. I am a Maschine Mk3 owner (and love it). I have not used the plus, so may be mistaken, but I am under the impression that there are quite a few provided instruments with Maschine+ that will only work when connected to your computer (à la Maschine MK3) which would include ones that I would think you would want to use more frequently, such as pianos, organs and other keys. As you will already need to plug in to a power supply, you are already needing to be tethered. I get that you can still 'use' the plus away from the computer (e.g. on the couch), but I have found my MC-101 has more than enough to keep me occupied on those occassions and is much less unweildy than having the Maschine on my lap. And I believe both the Mk3 and the plus shine best when attached to the PC. Of course I am not suggesting that there are no happy Machine+ users, nor that the MC 101 should be what you get, but I do think it's worth considering whether you end up hooking up to the PC more often than originally planned with the plus, and as such whether a Mk3 'and' a more basic truly portable unit could serve for those mobile or lounge based occassions. And for the same, or less, money. (A Mk3 & a used MPC live would be very similar money). One final further suggestion (though only battery powered if used with a USB powerbank) would be a Roland Verselab. Less of a traditional groovebox, but still offering most of the groovebox features you need, decent number of tracks, a good compromise size (not tiny nor huge) and with the fantastic Zencore engine. Synth parameters are limited, however you can load sounds that have been edited with other Zencore products such as Zenology pro. And in any case there are thousands of presets, and most of your primary values can be edited (envelopes, filters etc).
my workflow is iPad Air 250gb Korg gadget2 with extras from korgs iOS synths and module which all appear in gadget. save either as midi, complete Ableton project or gadget project to gadget on the Mac. I save and transfer via a usb stick. fast easy simple to get ideas down anywhere anytime. usually 4 or 8 bars with bass, arp, melody, chords,drums/percussion. my fav korg M1/ wavestaion sounds are on hand all in all it all sounds plenty as good as any virtual groove box. but then as its saving audio and midi and gadget and Ableton, I can tweak or change any sound once in the Mac via gadget or Ableton. I still have Roland 101 707 mv1 tr6 tr8 akai force, mpc live2 polyend tracker but they collect dust as far from being instant its more like 95 percent figuring it out , 5 percent music if I don't run out of precious time. none are used in my studio either as they don't come close to my complete elektron collection that also integrates well via overbridge usb for Ableton push 3 (not the mobile version)
Great overview! In my opinion working with internal synths is much easier and pleasent on the MPC One. It's more visual. On Maschine+ you only scroll trough parameters names. That was the deciding factor for me between those two :)
For sketching ideas (or even an entire album), I think a mobile app like Cubasis is a super liberating and powerful tool for creating music, whether it be on the couch, or out drinking a BLACKPINK Frappuccino at your local coffee bar.
Sounds closest to a MPC Live II. Battery, deep sequencer, plug in synths, sampling, and two DIN MIDIs in, two DIN MIDIs out, two USBs for MIDI In/Outs. The MPC One+ is a nice device but No battery and less physical I/O. The Maschine is good but like your MPC choice, doesn’t comply to what you said you wanted.
As an MC-101 owner I'd selfishly say the 101 or 707! Though I still think Roland should offer a ZenologyPro discount for owners as it feels like an almost necessary component to accompany their grooveboxes!
Yes, as a 101 owner myself I agree, the sound design is not great. Have thought about upgrading to the 707 but I got the SH-4d which has better hands-on controls and sounds great.
I have the Roland SH-4D, I bought it after I saw Bo Beats review. Pro, it has 11 sound engines and a very diverse drum synth/engine with all of the Roland favorites. It has 4, yes 4 Oscillators and an engine with 3 Osc and 2 LFO’s. It’s fun on the couch, a lot of things to do on the fly, and up to 64 steps with 60 or so polyphony. Cons-It has a weak PCM engine with around 50 or so presets. The save feature is maddening, if you’re lazy and just rename the patch or pattern for example “Piano to Fiano” you’ll be fine, but if you’ve got OCD you’re going to be frustrated. IT has 4 tracks and 1 rhythm track. IT does run on batteries but it runs through them quickly, best to buy a small external power pack. There is no sampling. Why I will keep mine…I have vision problems and the Roland is easy to navigate. Also I have one ear lol, so I can’t voice how the stereo is, but its fine. For you…I think you might want to skip this one, I might be wrong though.
I've been jumping around grooveboxes myself. My favorite has been the MPC One so far (however it's also the newest to me ... there's always a worry that the GAS hasn't worn off yet). It doesn't have a battery, as you said - but having effects so easily added and some decent synths has been really nice, and it's just a ton of fun to just sit down and chill out. I was actually going to get an MPC Live 2 but the One is just so much smaller. (And you can actually run both the Maschine+ and MPC with battery banks using cords, though it's pretty fiddly.) It's not *really* dawless though, IMO - it feels to me like much more of an instant-on DAW with automatic controls for everything, that you can turn on and mess with with no distractions or annoyance (outside of software bugs which I've heard there are a bunch of, but haven't seen any). As someone who uses a DAW, being able to edit sequences in a DAW-like window and organizing sequences is really intuitive to me so it didn't have much of a learning curve. I looked up a few things (effects under the eye button???) and otherwise have been having a great time. The Maschine+ might be a great look too though - I haven't gotten it so I can't say for sure! It's twice as much here, you can get a used MPC One for like $450. The best synths on the One are definitely, as you noted, extra $. Akai does put their MPC synths on sale too though - the OPx4 was on sale this March for $30 instead of the $99 it's at now (and I'm waiting for that to happen again so I can pick it up). *edit* for reference I've also had the MC-707 (which is nice but fiddly - I sold it to get the MPC), Polyend Play (which is very fun but no synths and definitely a weirder workflow, more of a 'unique arrangements' tool IMO), Digitone, and both Circuits. The MPC has definitely been the most immediately fun of them all, just because of the included packs and simple effects thing.
I know somebody who's just got the SH4D (or Shad, as I like to call it) and it has some great sounds. But too early to say more until they start showing off what they've done with it. Machine+ seems like the obvious choice from your shortlist. Can't wait to hear what you do with it. Good luck!
@@WoodyPianoShack that Roland synth is a synth first and mediocre groovebox second, don't recommend MC-707 is the Roland to go for, if you want Roland sounds.
The MPCs are pretty great, but overall more complex than optimal as a "groovebox", basically a Daw in a box and not what I tend to look for in a groover. The 404 is dope but doesn't do good midi. The MV1 has some killer sounds and interesting (if difficult to learn) work flow. The Circuits are a good happy medium, super immediate and great sounds, do good midi and would be a rec. Really hope that there is an Electribe 3, the drumlogue is fun, but it needs a buddy.
For Me it sounds like you are looking for the Roland MC707 😊 It has all you ask for without repeating you.. I can just say that the MC707… But as always with gear in general,there is no right or wrong, just personal preferences.. so my answer is just a tips… And as you mention in your video, you will pass on it.. but I am exited to see what you end up with 😀😀and if you need some tutorial videos , you know where to find me 😀😀😀 Good luck man 😀
Hi Woody, If you need tight MIDI timing for your external gear please stay away from Maschine+. You will not get it neither with DIN MIDI nor with external USB MIDI interface. In this regard M+ performanse is similar to Reaper sequencer on Raspberry PI, so you are starting hearing timing inconsistencies quite fast as your project develops. Maybe for simple 1-4 track projects its fine, but no way you will like it on 8+ tracks when you know how it should really sound like.
I had similar problems with the Roland MC’s. The 707 was audibly out of time when running external midi gear. It priorities the lower number tracks so if you have any rhythm tracks, layer them on track 1. It drove me insane how late the rhythm would come in on down beats when it was tasked sending out midi to the external instruments at the same time. Also, not being able to record sustain CC’s from an external keyboard was a deal breaker on the 707.
I'd maybe try to experience both the MPC and the Native Instruments offerings. I am very happy with Maschine MK3 for my needs. Komplete 14 standard is fantastic whether at sale and upgrade pricing or not. You're already somewhat aquainted with maschine 2 software. The Komplete eco system, especially standard and up, turns maschine 2 and mikro/mk3/+ into a swiss army knife. Or you might prefer the heritage and workflow of the MPC as so many do. Either way, don't forget you might need to buy a sampling cable if you want to sample directly from (e.g.) your phone or record player, to your maschine+
Woody, love all your videos, but this series I’ll be watching with much interest. I’m in the same boat as you, a Kronos, Nautilus, and Roland FA07 owner, who’s been looking, with curiosity, at all these strange musical boxes. 😂 Greetings from North Dakota and I’ll be excited to see where your journey leads you!
Hi Woody. In my opinion you made the correct decision with the Machine+. I have an MPC One, and it's a completely different instrument in it's own right, really, really good, incredible sounds, sequencer, ecosystem, and has the best feeling pads. I use it for my fun 'couch' instrument, and it ticks all the boxes. However, I also have a Native Instruments Komplete Kontrol S88 Mk2, as well as a S61 Mk2, so the Native Instruments ecosystem basically revolves around my studio setup now. The instruments, and sample packs available are second to none. I think you already have a Komplete Kontrol S49 Mk2, from memory, so obviously you are already familiar with how it all works, as you mentioned in the video. Get yourself a decent 2TB drive though, because when you get the Machine+ you'll soon find yourself downloading a lot of sample packs, and instruments to try, it's quite addictive lol. Down the track, I may get a Machine+ myself sometime, but it's not really needed because I already have the 2 Komplete Kontrollers. We'll see. If you can afford it, I strongly recommend getting the Komplete 14 Standard pack when it's discounted to half price. It will tide you over, and keep you entertained for years to come, and worth every cent!
my own 2 cents, I bought an MPC one for midi sequencing and linear recording away from my computer....(whats so hard to put in a linear recorder in keyboards these days? ) its a fine machine and actually fun to edit with. Howver i think the sh-4 to be a better machine but im not sure how long you can linear record with it. For Midi sequencing, mpc one is amazing. so many dedicated buttons for editing and such.
Understandable I’m a dawless guy sometimes I want total control over my sound with a computer. Computer is ok yet the latency is a big problem with modern production. I still use the vintage Yamaha rs7000 along with the modx both sound great together. Sooner or later will upgrade to the maschine plus.
I think the Maschine+ makes sense for you. Although I would say that not all the synth plugins on the MPC One+ are packs that you have to pay for. As standard you get Tubesynth a VA like 4 voice synth. Bassline, a mono synth. Hype, a great semi-programmable synth. Solina, strings as the name suggests. Drum synth, a VA programmable drum synth. And a Mellotron. However, I think you should consider the MPC Key 61. Full MPC but with a 61 key keyboard, plus the majority of paid plugins included.
Akai MPC Live II with built-in speakers and internal rechargeable battery. £889 at Andertons. I have an MPC One (gold edition) but am considering a trade-in for this.
MPC One or Live I guess? I recently bought an MPC 1000 because of the simple screen, which I prefer over the more "tablet-like" screens of the newer MPCs.
Hi Woody! I've tried Roland groovebox and menu diving is so painful that even old Electribe feels light and easy compared to this monstrosity. Also i avoid anything from MPC (they basically not that good at standalone). i have my doubts with Ableton tho. The thing is, software companies that make hardware usually hellbent on locking devices to some stupid registration procedures etc. etc. (just look at IK that already became a pain in the neck to everyone who once touched it). I've heard some rumors already but let's hope it works better than that. Me personally i would love to see Electribe 3 but Korg seems to lost it's track in the market right now. I would wait for something new but i don't know if we would ever see a good piece of gear of that kind anytime soon... Thanks man! Always watching your videos from start to finish!
Several have suggested the Synthstrom Deluge. Polyend Tracker Mini (though missing straight up synthesis) or the Dirtywave M8 if you want to try out the tracker workflow.
not to keen on tracker workflow, it is a complete mystery to me. the deluge is a bit pricey, no? i wanted to check but seems unavailable at stores here.
You should try flip on smartphone along with a midi controller, it's versatile and fun. Other than that, Machine+ would be my choice. (I own and love the mk2 version) Presumably with a usb battery pack you can make the maschine+ fully portable
This comment won't be helpful at all because I'm intimidated by dawless so can't offer any feedback, but I did want to post to let you know I LOVED the outro track/video. It was perfect! Good luck in your search and I look forward to hearing what you decide.
Flavor pro is an effect that rules! I had the Maschine plus and returned it for 8 major reasons. The only plus on the Maschine is the pads…they are great…everything else blahhhhh no. It overheats on the left upper corner due to no venting, and it’s weak in the cpu…. The only real synth is the pro 53 from NI’s past days. I would always go MPC ‘Force over Maschine plus. My advice
I have a lot of doubts about the Maschine+ as there hasn't been any updates for it for over a year. NI have a bad habit of releasing products and then abandoning them. Maschine+ also has an extremely weak CPU which makes using multiple instances of the built-in synths nearly impossible. And then there's also the issue of bugs and crashes.
Have you heard of a racehorse designed by a committee? We need more endurance, ability to drink less and store more water, can lift heavier things. Has more of a mind of it's own for self sufficiency. Committee result: a Camel!
It won’t tick all or even most of your boxes but have you ever considered the Teenage Engineering OP-1? I had to sell mine due to cash flow problems at the time, but it was a joy to work with. The “fun factor” is subjective but can’t be underestimated IMO.
absolutely get the fun factor part! not sure it can serve as a hardware midi sequencer for my synths, heck I don't think it even has a MIDI port. but good call, and sure I've been curious but those prices... :/
Having owned the maschine + I wouldn't recommend it. Found it underpowered and limited in many ways. It didn't help that some of my favourite expansions wouldn't even work in m+ due to hardware limitations. Maybe it's because I mainly use ableton live and the workflow seemed to cumbersome for my taste . Maschine + has been out a while now and it might be worth hanging on to see if a new version is going to be launched soon. The new ableton push 3 standalone is pricy but has more power, access to their own very good synths and IMO a far superior workflow. I believe the cpu, ram and storage can be upgraded too which should futureproof it somewhat. In short I've not yet tried the push 3 standalone but have really enjoyed the past 3 years with push 2 and ableton live compared to my initial workflow using maschine hardware and software so for me push 3 standalone makes the most sense.
Deluge does all that, not sure on the polyend play, it does samples but no editing, I am looking for something similar but with different requirements, I have a hardware sampler, FM synth, poly analogue synth, a Drumstation and Roland TR6S, what I was after is hardware sequencer mainly, Yamaha RS7000 was on my list but none available that are expanded, QY7000 as well not sure on the RM1X, I discounted the Akai, older ones are few and far between and newer ones felt like an iPad with a midi controller, Deluge was out of my budget and I have a sampler. The hapax looks great but is out of my budget slightly. What I decided on was the Polyend Tracker Mini with an Arturia Keystep Pro, although I might add an Oxi ONE later or something vintage.
nice choices on your side, was aware of those two more "boutique" instruments but not on my radar and looking for more mainstream solution! good luck with your rig!
@@WoodyPianoShack thank you, I hope the NI machine works out for you, I couldn't justify getting another ecosystem, mine needed to be semi-mobile and sit between two 12u racks.
Hi Woody. You could get a Maschine Mk3 and a reasonably decent laptop for the price of a Maschine+. This would be a much more powerful setup, just a single USB connection between the two, usable speakers in the laptop, ability to use the Maschine software without the hardware if you want to, lots of options to use other software alongside it if you want, etc etc. I use a Mk3 with my MacBook Pro and it is an insanely powerful combination for the price.
that is a fantastic suggestion, i did consider that, but i would have to buy a suitable laptop and the controller, so pushes the budget towards the plus anyways.
@@WoodyPianoShack I sugest to choose mk3, it unlocks full potential of all plugins from kontrol and other brands. Laptop can be used as powerbank and speaker. Mk3 is well build,it has got audio interface and 5pin MIDI. Try buying already used macbook pro 13 2020 with Intel i5 16 GB 1TB ssd, it is the best one avaliable from Intel(keyboard without any issues, its repaired version, good ventilation with 2 fans). You can backup projects to cloud etc.
@@WoodyPianoShack Hey Woody, great channel. MPC Live II is still more powerful than the One+. It runs the same software, plus you can install an internal SSD, more audio I/O, battery power, built-in speakers, much nicer pads, WIFI, multiple MIDI & USB ports, to name a few differences. The one thing I prefer on the MPC One is the dedicated "Program Edit" button. On the Live II it's basically a two-button-press sequence. Cheers!
Why do you need it to be a versatile midi sequencer? Is it not possible to use your nautilus as the brain of your operation and use that to sequence everything else?
Maschine Plus is great, it feels like an instrument. Before I had the MPC One, but that's not for me, felt too much like a computer, with double taps, confirmations, non-responsive touch screen. MPC locks you into into weird limitations when it comes to tracks, and how many effects you can use. I didn't like it
I often considered getting a groove-box to add to my setup but after looking at the number of units out there, my head just kept spinning. I had to think about how I could use them in my music making which is mostly new age and ambient or orchestral. I think these units are great for someone looking to make hip-hop or trance type beats that repeat themselves over and over (loopy) but that is not real music. Anyone who thinks they are a musician by just pushing a bunch of colored pads is fooling themselves. Sit down and write real music.
I see a market for those devices, but I don't think they are useful (to me...). With a serious laptop today you have immediate boot, long battery life, good sound quality, immense sofware available. Why buying another cpu which is more expensive and less flexible? I don't understand...
Laptops don't have physical controls like music keyboard, knobs built in. It's either mouse or keyboard, hardly the same is it? Plus computers need OS updates all the time.
@@furiobisotti8150The 80 bucks controller Is nice, but not the same as a dedicated controller. About OS, the Internet is full of people complaining about incompatibilities of software caused by updates (and not only OS, also DAWs etc.). Not my experience, I happily use a computer with a controller, but as you can see grooveboxes have their pluses. Ah, they're also cheaper than a laptop (which at least in theory you don't need with a groovebox).
Only two synth tracks + drums, terrible! Only 32 steps max, awful! Should you get a Novation Circuit Tracks? Yes! So so limited, but importantly you won’t be precious about the machine, it’ll always be having around and you’ll end up playing with it more than you can imagine.
You want your cake and eat it too. You already know that you described the new Ableton push but don't want to pay for it. Honestly, this video is a bit annoying. Doesn't sound like anything will ever work out for you.
Electribe 2S has been my favorite. If only I could go for longer bars on it without having to pattern chain. I've used it to control 3 Volcas and the NTS-1 as well using a MIDI Solutions box.
so.. sample/file/track/project naming workflow. maschine plus: 90's super nintendo type alphabet on screen a-z and you select a letter with a scroll wheel then hit enter to lay that letter down... next letter.. repeat. MPC - touch type with the onscreen qwerty keyboard.
Hi Woody,
after watching nearly all of your videos and having gotten many Ideas and tips out of them I finally can give something back.
I Started working with MIDI and sequencers in the 80s, first with Kawai Q-80 and then Atari ST, later I used MMT-8, QY700 and several MPCs (2000XL, 4000, 2500) and also tried Yamaha RM1x and RS7000 (ugh), Electribe 2 and both Novation Circuits. I also had the Fantom 6 since it was released but sold it about 2 weeks ago. I currently have Maschine plus, MC-101 and MC-707 as well as the Synthstrom Deluge (which you did not mention, but I come back to that one later). Here are my remarks:
Ableton Push standalone: no arranger, TRS MIDI, too pricy, USB Host is MIDI only ATM.
MC-707: few controls, assignable, battery power over ripcord with powerbank possible.
It is great at a sound module for the standard ZenCore tones, expansions will load, but no synth models, no SN sounds or other extras. Tracks can have either one tone or one per clip, so 16 different tones per Track are possible, I use the Tracks as categories for my livesets, so I have E-Pianos on Track 1, Basses at 2, Leads at 3 and so on. No direct Access to tones, but you can use Program changes (eg with the ESI Xjam controller). Clips are grouped in Scenes and those can be launched in 2 modes or per program change on the global channel. Sampling is ok, limited in memory, SD card access and startup time is really slow. There is no export function for Tones and MIDI files, but you can import those. It has 2 MIDI outputs you can adress those separately but MIDI Channels are global and not per Project, so you have to have a fixed channel setup. Clips can have up to 128 steps (8 Bars), there is Clip and Scene Chain, but no Arranger/Song mode which is a real downer, because you have to go into each clip to change the chaining, same with scene chain. Another downer is that you have to set an extra parameter step length in order to play a clip to its end before changing to the next one. You only get automation lanes and not parameter locks like on the Elektron machines, and only 4 parameters at the same time.
Handling: you have to know the shortcuts otherwise you’re lost in Menu diving. All this lead me to use it more as a sound module especially since I didn’t use my Fantom anymore, since the sequencer is not that capable for external use. Together with the Maschine Plus its a great combo, since it has all that „bread&butter“ sounds Maschine plus is missing because M+ is more Synthesizer and Sampler.
Nice extra: Headphone out has a separate volume knob and there is a cue function that can be set to the headphone, and metronome can also be routed to headphone only. You have 2 Pairs of external inputs and so can be used as a mixer, setting one or 2 tracks up with external input with the faders controlling the volume of the external gear. This channel can’t be used for tones then, but still for MIDI.
USB has 2 Modes, Vendor and Generic. In Vendor Mode it needs a driver to get all 8 Stereo channels over USB plus MIDI. After massive request Roland added a generic mode with classcompliant Audio (Stereo Mix only), MIDI already was class compliant with all channels available. BTW: Tracks don’t send MIDI per default (only receive), you have to enable that in Tracks setting.
M+ can be powered with Birdcord PD 15V and PD powerbank, supports only VST2 ATM (important when you exchange projects with the software), sample and synths, arranger with independent and unique clips, MIDIfile import/export via software, expansions are often packed with effects so better change those to send instead of insert effects, not all of NIs expansions work.
People running into problems because they try to use it like the software and don't think about the hardware limitations when using soft synths and especially insert effects on each track.
Solid build, real DIN MIDI, 2 USB Hostports for MIDI and Audio (class compliant), even old Emagic MIDI interfaces are supported (I maintain a compatibility list). A hub can be connected and so many devices can be connected at the same time.
There are many Templates for external MIDI instruments to control and you can assemble ones yourself (only in the Software).
Best controller for live to hookup is the Maschine Jam, it gives you the missing controls like Step sequencing and Fader controls for mixers.
Beware of their controller keyboards, they are not that useful as many people think, since you can’t do splits in native mode and a soon as one of those is connected it always becomes the master without any chance of changing that.
Note editing is great with the 4D encoder and the two screens, much better than any touchscreen I’ve ever worked with.
I highly recommend watching Jef Gibbons’ videos on M+ any maybe joining the M+ Facebook group.
MPC One: strange workflow, no clean slate on start, limit of 8 plugins per track, list Editor doesn’t allow change of note timestamp, Touchscreen fiddly for note editing, has noting to to with the older MPCs which have a completely different workflow.
You forgot or overlooked one important candidate: The Synthstrom Deluge. It covers all of your needs for an idea pad on the couch as well as being a very capable MIDI sequencer. ATM USB and MIDI are tied together, but since the Firmware is now open Source there are already many expansions to the original one and those work great. Usabilty got much better with the new OLED display, it has a built-in standard type rechargeable Li-Battery and a speaker. I use it as idea pad when sitting on the couch but I also did a liveset with it, acting as sequencer for my MC-707. It has unlimited tracks and an arranger mode, but it is all based on colours. MIDIfiles can be imported/exported with a 3rd party software and there are many other helper tools and also sound sets.
It can’t be bought in music shops, only at Synthstrom in New Zealand but they ship with DHL Express which is very fast. It also is in your price range. There are many tutorials out there, especially by Ron Cavagnaro.
As a sequencer heart of a complete setup it is not as capable as Maschine Plus since there is only one MIDI IN/OUT and you may need a Thrubox or MIDI Patchbay (like MIDIHub or CME U6MIDI Pro) but it is the most immediate device of all - instant on, no booting time, you can load while play and so on. The internal Synth engine sounds a little harsh sometimes but for sketching ideas it is perfect, you can switch the track to MIDI with one button. Incoming MIDI must be „learned“ and there is no template function yet (but you can save a Song and use it as such), handling heavily relies on Shortcuts but you get used to it, since those are quite logical.
Well, this was very long but I hope it is of some help. If you have any questions, feel free to ask :)
there is some great insight here from someone who owne the instruments that i think many of you will find interesting. thanks for the info. re the deluge, it seems to be removed from Thomann here in EU, and I seem to remember it being over budget, but yes, I agree an interesting contender, but I went for more mainstream options here.
strange, I was sure I had answered again but its gone - maybe I made a mistake since I dont comment on yt very often. Anyway: many thanks for pinning my post! Regarding the Deluge I don't recall it ever being available in any music shop since it has to be ordered directly at the manufacturer in New Zealand.
I think you already made the best decision by chosing Maschine plus, since it is a real powerful MIDI sequencer with Pattern, scenes, uniques, clips and expanding MIDI capabilities.
Another quick tip: M+ accepts USB Ethernet adapters on its USB hostports and so you can put it in airplane mode which switches off WLAN but uses wired Ethernet instead. Use standard USB Ethernet ones, it does not work with Gigabit types, the now discontinued Apple USB ethernet Adaptors work great, but they have no status LEDs like others.
I forgot to mention that on NIs website there is a Powerbank Guide, recommending mobile power solutions for the M+.
I also maintain a list of user tested external USB hardware so anyone can see what devices work on the USB host ports (with new additions currently being tested and added), see:
docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1e7kNQ0-_-kYUW6OvzBXJ-28ZuRHCEgyGaxpEu-XhSvY/edit?usp=sharing
I am looking forward to see videos with you getting Maschine plus!
I'm no expert on equipment. Will say my Digitakt is probably my favorite piece of music related gear I've ever bought.
People talk about the learning curve and it was making me nervous before ordering one. If you watch a couple TH-cam videos on the basic workflow it's really easy to figure out. Then you just take it a step at a time, making beats and figuring out each thing as you go along. Endless hours of fun and these little boxes sound amazing.
Nice video. I can highly recommend the MPC Live. It has a workflow that is very mature and intuitive and it is really easy to use for recording stuff in away from your computer. When your’re done it is is also very easy to explode and export your tracks to a DAW for final arranging, mixing and editing. The battery is actually very useful on the couch: no hassle with adapters. It is one of those machines that keeps on giving, just like the Elektron Analog Four.
I own the MC-101, the SH-4d, an MPC Live II and recently got the Syntakt. Basically the MPC boxes are the only standalone hardware that cover everything you want. The MPC One+ is nice but if you stretch the budget a bit, I would actually recommend the Live II. Why? Well very nice pads, great touchscreen, built-in rechargeable battery and built-in speakers (which are actually pretty good), the storage is expandable, and it has more ways to connect it to other gear than any other groovebox I know of.
For the full standalone hardware experience I would recommend MPC Live as it has decent editing via it's touchscreen, battery, built in instruments and effects, multiple MIDI and CV ports. It can also load legacy AKAI disks. The built in space for SSD is amazing. I am thinking it could hold every sample and multisample group I can think of. The biggest selling point I think is the latency is 0.3ms and IMHO is far more robust and stable. so it's fantastic for live performance. I think it's the best choice for a workflow that bridges more towards DAWless music creation and editing which still provides a way to get the material created on it into the DAW when needed through the MPC software. It has duplex means of transferring between DAW and DAWlessness with the least amount of friction. Downside - no disk streaming which impacts audio tracking and the loading of large multisample libraries. Maschine+ has this allowing for both audio recording takes and loading many multisampled instances of kontakt. However this does come at the expense of overall stability.
I bought the Roland Verselab MV-1 some months ago and was impressed by easy of use. Made some songs in a couple of hours. Thousands of included Roland synth sounds. And the sequencer is also very handy.
Maschine+ is really cool. Sounds fantastic and you can if you want later on load the project into the computer and run the song in the Maschine 2.0 software. I have tried out most of what you mentioned and ended up on the Maschine Plus. You can run it with a USB-C PD battery pack no problem. Edit: And it has internal synths (Bass/polyphonic and FM8) Sampling is possible incl. auto-sampling if you want to have your Yamaha piano in that box 🙂
Hi Woody,
Great video. I find myself making the same choice as I am in the situation where I am invested in NI and have been a Maschine user since MKI and have the MKIII and the JAM. It's great to use with the JAM along with the touch strips. it's a shame NI stopped making this. I find NI workflow addresses what I call the hybrid approach which entails DAW to create -> edit -> mix then DAWless to perform -> loop -> play -> special effects for live.
Seems you've already pulled the trigger there. My favourite groovebox is the Digitakt. But if you want to make music on the couch, I'd go for Novation Circuit Tracks. You get two synth tracks, two sequencer tracks and a drum sample player, and it's battery powered. As an ideas thing it is unrivaled, at an affordable price.
Akai Force is great if you like Ableton grid sequencing MIDI approach.
I've gone through pretty much every hardware sequencer around, not the latest but if it exists, I've researched it and not been able to afford it, or bought it, used it, keep it or sold it.
Akai Force as USB MIDI can do stuff that I have not experienced on other sequencers, it allows for patch and bank changes which is an absolute god send if you want to re-use the same synth on the same set/track/song. I've done this with my DAW but never been able to do it with hardware, the Force can do it and is a must if you're into hardware sequencing.
Then the USB element, it acts as a host so anything plugged into it will now come up labeled accordingly. Get a powered USB hub and you can have a ton of hardware hooked up with their assigned labelled connections.
The best bit? Only 1 cable for in and out rather than 2 for 5 pin MIDI din.
THEN add that it is an amazing sampler, 7 inch screen so works great as a groove box.
Still has menu diving, but not as much as the MPC range.
Roland mv1 (8 bar limit per track,internal mic,Roland sounds,song mode, tr seq ,flexibility Rec samples on drum tracks ,smartphone used as powerbank
All Arounders: Deluge or Octatrack or Force or iPad
Sampling: MPC or Digitak
Synthesis: MC707 or Digitone or Syntakt or Analog 4
Arranging: Maschine+ or Polyend or RC505 mk2
Sound Module: SH9d
Efx Module: SP404 mk2
Sauce: OP1 or Rytm or Push 3
MPC - instrument's it comes with free in the box
electric piano
bass synth
tube synth
hype synth
solina stings
odessey arp clone synth
melotron tape keyboard clone
drum synth
There's a large selection of free expansion sample packs to download too including a huge selection of drum kits and sampled instruments
there's a large range of inbuilt fx also from the usual reverb, delay eq etc to vocal auto tune, guitar amp simulatons , retro lofi as well as utilities like a tuner.
good stuff, that's quite the list, thanks for confirming.
My suggestion would be the Roland MC-101. Had one, sold it off, have regretted it ever since, and may well be picking it up again if I don't go for a Fantom 0. It's small enough to toss in a messenger bag, sounds good enough to use as a sound module, and if you can get past the tiny screen (which isn't as bad as it seems at first blush), it's actually pretty easy/intuitive to use. If you find it doesn't have enough tracks, the 707 raises the total to 8, but doesn't run on batteries (can run on a USB power supply, though, so if you have one of those power brick thingies, that'd be an option).
I have the MPC Key 61, bought it a year ago when it released, full of bugs and weird updates, but despite all of that it has changed the way I make music, it's nice layout like a cassette-deck recorder set of recording buttons, it's Daw-like piano roll, it's direct sampling to key capabilities, 128 track sequencer, and double the internal ram for the Virtual synths that it comes with, made it a winner for me ,and sadly my other synths are now gathering dust (despite its ability to control these as well), because it really is a one-does-all show.
My personal favorite (Probably because I actually own one) out of the ones in this video is the MC-707. I've had one since February as I bought it as a birthday gift for my self. I've ended up working a lot more with samples than I expected but it's mostly been as drums and as oscillator sources for Zen Core. Only things I really want for the MC-707 at this point are support for the model expansions for Zen Core and the wave expansions as well would be nice to have as well as some kind of massive patching interface for when doing nothing but sound design to put all those knobs on the thing to full use more often.
I've had a lot of fun with my MC-707 personally but it can definitely devolve into menu diving purgatory when doing sound design but that's an issue with near all the Zen Core hardware because Roland had to throw everything and the kitchen sink at it. The synth engine is still bonkers to have in a standalone devices and I knew going into it I was making the typical Roland trade off of a really powerful synth engine with some questionable UI decisions. It's the Roland way at this point, it's nearly part of the brand image these days.
I did consider the Maschine+ and an MPC of some kind but the Maschine+ lost out in part because of the fact a lot of people have ran into issues with sound problems when it's pushed some what hard and the MPC family even with the new plugins still feel overtly sample focused which isn't something I actually use a ton of outside of drums because of the kind of music I like to make. Elektron's boxes just feel like they are weirdly knee capped to me in odd ways and I don't jive with the workflow as a concept and didn't know any one who I could borrow a Digitone or Digitakt from for a while to check it out. Doesn't help I'm a massive sucker for the Roland sound which the MC-707 delivers by the truckload.
Elektron gets some stick as the hardware is really low spec for the price, samplers from the 90s and 00s outperform the Digitakt old Akai, Emu, Yamaha samplers have more memory.
Great review! Something to consider given your “studio hub” objective, if you like the MPC One look at the MPC Key61. It’s an expanded MPC with keyboard and all the “missing” synths included. The sequencer makes it a better “Workstation” keyboard than many other choices. A Fairlight for the New Millennium, possibly….
Don't worry about battery power. You are better off ignoring that as DC-USB adapters exist for any groovebox, fully trivializing the lack of batteries and allowing you to use as big of a portable battery bank as you wish.
Hi Woody.
I am a Maschine Mk3 owner (and love it). I have not used the plus, so may be mistaken, but I am under the impression that there are quite a few provided instruments with Maschine+ that will only work when connected to your computer (à la Maschine MK3) which would include ones that I would think you would want to use more frequently, such as pianos, organs and other keys.
As you will already need to plug in to a power supply, you are already needing to be tethered. I get that you can still 'use' the plus away from the computer (e.g. on the couch), but I have found my MC-101 has more than enough to keep me occupied on those occassions and is much less unweildy than having the Maschine on my lap. And I believe both the Mk3 and the plus shine best when attached to the PC.
Of course I am not suggesting that there are no happy Machine+ users, nor that the MC 101 should be what you get, but I do think it's worth considering whether you end up hooking up to the PC more often than originally planned with the plus, and as such whether a Mk3 'and' a more basic truly portable unit could serve for those mobile or lounge based occassions. And for the same, or less, money. (A Mk3 & a used MPC live would be very similar money).
One final further suggestion (though only battery powered if used with a USB powerbank) would be a Roland Verselab. Less of a traditional groovebox, but still offering most of the groovebox features you need, decent number of tracks, a good compromise size (not tiny nor huge) and with the fantastic Zencore engine. Synth parameters are limited, however you can load sounds that have been edited with other Zencore products such as Zenology pro. And in any case there are thousands of presets, and most of your primary values can be edited (envelopes, filters etc).
As far as MPCs, Ben Correll's videos may be to your liking.
And he makes soundpacks sampled from his synths to make things go faster when producing.
my workflow is iPad Air 250gb Korg gadget2 with extras from korgs iOS synths and module which all appear in gadget. save either as midi, complete Ableton project or gadget project to gadget on the Mac. I save and transfer via a usb stick. fast easy simple to get ideas down anywhere anytime. usually 4 or 8 bars with bass, arp, melody, chords,drums/percussion. my fav korg M1/ wavestaion sounds are on hand all in all it all sounds plenty as good as any virtual groove box. but then as its saving audio and midi and gadget and Ableton, I can tweak or change any sound once in the Mac via gadget or Ableton. I still have Roland 101 707 mv1 tr6 tr8 akai force, mpc live2 polyend tracker but they collect dust as far from being instant its more like 95 percent figuring it out , 5 percent music if I don't run out of precious time. none are used in my studio either as they don't come close to my complete elektron collection that also integrates well via overbridge usb for Ableton push 3 (not the mobile version)
Great overview! In my opinion working with internal synths is much easier and pleasent on the MPC One. It's more visual. On Maschine+ you only scroll trough parameters names. That was the deciding factor for me between those two :)
For sketching ideas (or even an entire album), I think a mobile app like Cubasis is a super liberating and powerful tool for creating music, whether it be on the couch, or out drinking a BLACKPINK Frappuccino at your local coffee bar.
Sounds closest to a MPC Live II. Battery, deep sequencer, plug in synths, sampling, and two DIN MIDIs in, two DIN MIDIs out, two USBs for MIDI In/Outs. The MPC One+ is a nice device but No battery and less physical I/O.
The Maschine is good but like your MPC choice, doesn’t comply to what you said you wanted.
I'm very impressed by the MPC ONE+, everytime I see a video of it, I want one. And I'm 99,9% sure you would love it too :).
i should get both and keep the one i like the most. cheers!
@@WoodyPianoShack Yes, that's a way better idea :)
As an MC-101 owner I'd selfishly say the 101 or 707! Though I still think Roland should offer a ZenologyPro discount for owners as it feels like an almost necessary component to accompany their grooveboxes!
Yes, as a 101 owner myself I agree, the sound design is not great. Have thought about upgrading to the 707 but I got the SH-4d which has better hands-on controls and sounds great.
I have the Roland SH-4D, I bought it after I saw Bo Beats review. Pro, it has 11 sound engines and a very diverse drum synth/engine with all of the Roland favorites. It has 4, yes 4 Oscillators and an engine with 3 Osc and 2 LFO’s. It’s fun on the couch, a lot of things to do on the fly, and up to 64 steps with 60 or so polyphony. Cons-It has a weak PCM engine with around 50 or so presets. The save feature is maddening, if you’re lazy and just rename the patch or pattern for example “Piano to Fiano” you’ll be fine, but if you’ve got OCD you’re going to be frustrated. IT has 4 tracks and 1 rhythm track. IT does run on batteries but it runs through them quickly, best to buy a small external power pack. There is no sampling. Why I will keep mine…I have vision problems and the Roland is easy to navigate. Also I have one ear lol, so I can’t voice how the stereo is, but its fine. For you…I think you might want to skip this one, I might be wrong though.
MPC. Good workflow and solid VSTish plugins provide great sounds in standalone. Of course, MPC is a great sampler. But not required.
I am a fan of the MPC One.
I've been jumping around grooveboxes myself. My favorite has been the MPC One so far (however it's also the newest to me ... there's always a worry that the GAS hasn't worn off yet). It doesn't have a battery, as you said - but having effects so easily added and some decent synths has been really nice, and it's just a ton of fun to just sit down and chill out. I was actually going to get an MPC Live 2 but the One is just so much smaller. (And you can actually run both the Maschine+ and MPC with battery banks using cords, though it's pretty fiddly.)
It's not *really* dawless though, IMO - it feels to me like much more of an instant-on DAW with automatic controls for everything, that you can turn on and mess with with no distractions or annoyance (outside of software bugs which I've heard there are a bunch of, but haven't seen any).
As someone who uses a DAW, being able to edit sequences in a DAW-like window and organizing sequences is really intuitive to me so it didn't have much of a learning curve. I looked up a few things (effects under the eye button???) and otherwise have been having a great time.
The Maschine+ might be a great look too though - I haven't gotten it so I can't say for sure! It's twice as much here, you can get a used MPC One for like $450.
The best synths on the One are definitely, as you noted, extra $. Akai does put their MPC synths on sale too though - the OPx4 was on sale this March for $30 instead of the $99 it's at now (and I'm waiting for that to happen again so I can pick it up).
*edit*
for reference I've also had the MC-707 (which is nice but fiddly - I sold it to get the MPC), Polyend Play (which is very fun but no synths and definitely a weirder workflow, more of a 'unique arrangements' tool IMO), Digitone, and both Circuits. The MPC has definitely been the most immediately fun of them all, just because of the included packs and simple effects thing.
I know somebody who's just got the SH4D (or Shad, as I like to call it) and it has some great sounds. But too early to say more until they start showing off what they've done with it. Machine+ seems like the obvious choice from your shortlist. Can't wait to hear what you do with it. Good luck!
There are some great SH4D videos coming out of youtube now
the shed, ufortunately is i think a lacklustre midi sequencer for external gear...? iirc has a 4 pattern limit... :\ hope i'm wrong about that...
unfortunatley you're not wrong, the SH-4d sequencer is very limited, you wouldn't like it
@@WoodyPianoShack that Roland synth is a synth first and mediocre groovebox second, don't recommend
MC-707 is the Roland to go for, if you want Roland sounds.
The MPCs are pretty great, but overall more complex than optimal as a "groovebox", basically a Daw in a box and not what I tend to look for in a groover. The 404 is dope but doesn't do good midi. The MV1 has some killer sounds and interesting (if difficult to learn) work flow. The Circuits are a good happy medium, super immediate and great sounds, do good midi and would be a rec. Really hope that there is an Electribe 3, the drumlogue is fun, but it needs a buddy.
For Me it sounds like you are looking for the Roland MC707 😊 It has all you ask for without repeating you.. I can just say that the MC707… But as always with gear in general,there is no right or wrong, just personal preferences.. so my answer is just a tips… And as you mention in your video, you will pass on it.. but I am exited to see what you end up with 😀😀and if you need some tutorial videos , you know where to find me 😀😀😀 Good luck man 😀
Hi Woody, If you need tight MIDI timing for your external gear please stay away from Maschine+. You will not get it neither with DIN MIDI nor with external USB MIDI interface. In this regard M+ performanse is similar to Reaper sequencer on Raspberry PI, so you are starting hearing timing inconsistencies quite fast as your project develops. Maybe for simple 1-4 track projects its fine, but no way you will like it on 8+ tracks when you know how it should really sound like.
huh! ok, that's interesting info, thanks!
I had similar problems with the Roland MC’s. The 707 was audibly out of time when running external midi gear. It priorities the lower number tracks so if you have any rhythm tracks, layer them on track 1. It drove me insane how late the rhythm would come in on down beats when it was tasked sending out midi to the external instruments at the same time. Also, not being able to record sustain CC’s from an external keyboard was a deal breaker on the 707.
Maschin-e. Have fun with your new gear. I'm looking forward to hearing the fruits of your labor.
The Deluge of course 🤦
I'd maybe try to experience both the MPC and the Native Instruments offerings.
I am very happy with Maschine MK3 for my needs. Komplete 14 standard is fantastic whether at sale and upgrade pricing or not.
You're already somewhat aquainted with maschine 2 software.
The Komplete eco system, especially standard and up, turns maschine 2 and mikro/mk3/+ into a swiss army knife.
Or you might prefer the heritage and workflow of the MPC as so many do.
Either way, don't forget you might need to buy a sampling cable if you want to sample directly from (e.g.) your phone or record player, to your maschine+
Woody, love all your videos, but this series I’ll be watching with much interest. I’m in the same boat as you, a Kronos, Nautilus, and Roland FA07 owner, who’s been looking, with curiosity, at all these strange musical boxes. 😂 Greetings from North Dakota and I’ll be excited to see where your journey leads you!
Hi Woody. In my opinion you made the correct decision with the Machine+. I have an MPC One, and it's a completely different instrument in it's own right, really, really good, incredible sounds, sequencer, ecosystem, and has the best feeling pads. I use it for my fun 'couch' instrument, and it ticks all the boxes. However, I also have a Native Instruments Komplete Kontrol S88 Mk2, as well as a S61 Mk2, so the Native Instruments ecosystem basically revolves around my studio setup now. The instruments, and sample packs available are second to none. I think you already have a Komplete Kontrol S49 Mk2, from memory, so obviously you are already familiar with how it all works, as you mentioned in the video. Get yourself a decent 2TB drive though, because when you get the Machine+ you'll soon find yourself downloading a lot of sample packs, and instruments to try, it's quite addictive lol. Down the track, I may get a Machine+ myself sometime, but it's not really needed because I already have the 2 Komplete Kontrollers. We'll see. If you can afford it, I strongly recommend getting the Komplete 14 Standard pack when it's discounted to half price. It will tide you over, and keep you entertained for years to come, and worth every cent!
great tips, thank you! i could possible get both and keep the one that I like the most....
my own 2 cents, I bought an MPC one for midi sequencing and linear recording away from my computer....(whats so hard to put in a linear recorder in keyboards these days? ) its a fine machine and actually fun to edit with. Howver i think the sh-4 to be a better machine but im not sure how long you can linear record with it. For Midi sequencing, mpc one is amazing. so many dedicated buttons for editing and such.
unfortunately, there is no linear recording in SH-4d, just pattern based and limited
Understandable I’m a dawless guy sometimes I want total control over my sound with a computer. Computer is ok yet the latency is a big problem with modern production. I still use the vintage Yamaha rs7000 along with the modx both sound great together. Sooner or later will upgrade to the maschine plus.
MPC One is superb value and a MIDI Powerhouse
You should consider the Polyend Play. 8 sample tracks and 8 MIDI tracks, almost no menu-diving and a great performance mode.
any built-in synths tho? thx for the suggestion, it's been suggested a few times in the comments.
@@WoodyPianoShack Only samples, but you can use it as wavetables, i believe.
People have been using a power bank with mps one and maschine +. Have you looked at the mpc live?
I think the Maschine+ makes sense for you. Although I would say that not all the synth plugins on the MPC One+ are packs that you have to pay for. As standard you get Tubesynth a VA like 4 voice synth. Bassline, a mono synth. Hype, a great semi-programmable synth. Solina, strings as the name suggests. Drum synth, a VA programmable drum synth. And a Mellotron.
However, I think you should consider the MPC Key 61. Full MPC but with a 61 key keyboard, plus the majority of paid plugins included.
thx for the clarification! interesting call on the 61, but want the groovebox form factor, got too many keys already....
sounds like the right decision for you.They have great products and software
Left field suggestion :- look up the new zynthian v5. Does everything you ask and more.
Akai MPC Live II with built-in speakers and internal rechargeable battery. £889 at Andertons. I have an MPC One (gold edition) but am considering a trade-in for this.
Synthstrom Deluge is worth a look.
for some reason seems unavailable in major stores here, iirc it was quite pricey too.
its only available from the manufacturer itself, ships from New Zealand but really fast with DHL express
Admittedly I got one a few years ago and it was cheaper then, And there are so many other options out there now,@@WoodyPianoShack
I personally would like to try Roland Verselab one day... It seems really powerful.
I have the VErselab MV-1. Bought it together with a new Akai MPC One+. Returned the MPC One+, kept the Verselab MV-1. Its my fun music making machine.
MPC One or Live I guess? I recently bought an MPC 1000 because of the simple screen, which I prefer over the more "tablet-like" screens of the newer MPCs.
funny, how i wanted the 1000 back in the day, but never quite pulled the trigger!
They are quite affordable second hand!
Hi Woody! I've tried Roland groovebox and menu diving is so painful that even old Electribe feels light and easy compared to this monstrosity.
Also i avoid anything from MPC (they basically not that good at standalone).
i have my doubts with Ableton tho. The thing is, software companies that make hardware usually hellbent on locking devices to some stupid registration procedures etc. etc. (just look at IK that already became a pain in the neck to everyone who once touched it). I've heard some rumors already but let's hope it works better than that.
Me personally i would love to see Electribe 3 but Korg seems to lost it's track in the market right now.
I would wait for something new but i don't know if we would ever see a good piece of gear of that kind anytime soon...
Thanks man! Always watching your videos from start to finish!
Several have suggested the Synthstrom Deluge. Polyend Tracker Mini (though missing straight up synthesis) or the Dirtywave M8 if you want to try out the tracker workflow.
not to keen on tracker workflow, it is a complete mystery to me. the deluge is a bit pricey, no? i wanted to check but seems unavailable at stores here.
@@WoodyPianoShack the Deluge cost a bit but delivers plenty. It’s only distributed by the team in NZ so no retail anywhere. Delivers quickly, though.
You should try flip on smartphone along with a midi controller, it's versatile and fun. Other than that, Machine+ would be my choice. (I own and love the mk2 version)
Presumably with a usb battery pack you can make the maschine+ fully portable
i cannot stand doing anything on my smartphone, let alone making music! thanks for the suggests tho!
@@WoodyPianoShack totally, understandable! I'd be looking for a box too if i didnt have the maschine 👍
For hardware sequencer only: How about an OXI One sequencer.
Deluge, OP1 as well. The Deluge is clearly a passion product for its developers, I don't think you can say that for many of the items on your list.
Great, another vote for Deluge
This comment won't be helpful at all because I'm intimidated by dawless so can't offer any feedback, but I did want to post to let you know I LOVED the outro track/video. It was perfect! Good luck in your search and I look forward to hearing what you decide.
oh that is great, means a lot to me!
Flavor pro is an effect that rules! I had the Maschine plus and returned it for 8 major reasons. The only plus on the Maschine is the pads…they are great…everything else blahhhhh no. It overheats on the left upper corner due to no venting, and it’s weak in the cpu…. The only real synth is the pro 53 from NI’s past days. I would always go MPC ‘Force over Maschine plus. My advice
I have a lot of doubts about the Maschine+ as there hasn't been any updates for it for over a year. NI have a bad habit of releasing products and then abandoning them. Maschine+ also has an extremely weak CPU which makes using multiple instances of the built-in synths nearly impossible. And then there's also the issue of bugs and crashes.
Have you heard of a racehorse designed by a committee? We need more endurance, ability to drink less and store more water, can lift heavier things. Has more of a mind of it's own for self sufficiency. Committee result: a Camel!
It won’t tick all or even most of your boxes but have you ever considered the Teenage Engineering OP-1? I had to sell mine due to cash flow problems at the time, but it was a joy to work with. The “fun factor” is subjective but can’t be underestimated IMO.
absolutely get the fun factor part! not sure it can serve as a hardware midi sequencer for my synths, heck I don't think it even has a MIDI port. but good call, and sure I've been curious but those prices... :/
Having owned the maschine + I wouldn't recommend it. Found it underpowered and limited in many ways. It didn't help that some of my favourite expansions wouldn't even work in m+ due to hardware limitations. Maybe it's because I mainly use ableton live and the workflow seemed to cumbersome for my taste .
Maschine + has been out a while now and it might be worth hanging on to see if a new version is going to be launched soon. The new ableton push 3 standalone is pricy but has more power, access to their own very good synths and IMO a far superior workflow. I believe the cpu, ram and storage can be upgraded too which should futureproof it somewhat.
In short I've not yet tried the push 3 standalone but have really enjoyed the past 3 years with push 2 and ableton live compared to my initial workflow using maschine hardware and software so for me push 3 standalone makes the most sense.
You want Synthstrom Deluge.
Welcome to the MPC club! 😁
Get an MCPX.
E-mu Command Station! :D
Deluge does all that, not sure on the polyend play, it does samples but no editing, I am looking for something similar but with different requirements, I have a hardware sampler, FM synth, poly analogue synth, a Drumstation and Roland TR6S, what I was after is hardware sequencer mainly, Yamaha RS7000 was on my list but none available that are expanded, QY7000 as well not sure on the RM1X, I discounted the Akai, older ones are few and far between and newer ones felt like an iPad with a midi controller, Deluge was out of my budget and I have a sampler. The hapax looks great but is out of my budget slightly. What I decided on was the Polyend Tracker Mini with an Arturia Keystep Pro, although I might add an Oxi ONE later or something vintage.
nice choices on your side, was aware of those two more "boutique" instruments but not on my radar and looking for more mainstream solution! good luck with your rig!
@@WoodyPianoShack thank you, I hope the NI machine works out for you, I couldn't justify getting another ecosystem, mine needed to be semi-mobile and sit between two 12u racks.
Synthstrom Deluge
Hi Woody. You could get a Maschine Mk3 and a reasonably decent laptop for the price of a Maschine+. This would be a much more powerful setup, just a single USB connection between the two, usable speakers in the laptop, ability to use the Maschine software without the hardware if you want to, lots of options to use other software alongside it if you want, etc etc. I use a Mk3 with my MacBook Pro and it is an insanely powerful combination for the price.
that is a fantastic suggestion, i did consider that, but i would have to buy a suitable laptop and the controller, so pushes the budget towards the plus anyways.
@@WoodyPianoShack I sugest to choose mk3, it unlocks full potential of all plugins from kontrol and other brands. Laptop can be used as powerbank and speaker. Mk3 is well build,it has got audio interface and 5pin MIDI. Try buying already used macbook pro 13 2020 with Intel i5 16 GB 1TB ssd, it is the best one avaliable from Intel(keyboard without any issues, its repaired version, good ventilation with 2 fans). You can backup projects to cloud etc.
Maschine is fantastic!
MPC live II is really the MPC to look at in this case
yeh, you could be right there. was torn between the two, but opted to dig into one+ since much more recent model, i think...?
@@WoodyPianoShack Hey Woody, great channel. MPC Live II is still more powerful than the One+. It runs the same software, plus you can install an internal SSD, more audio I/O, battery power, built-in speakers, much nicer pads, WIFI, multiple MIDI & USB ports, to name a few differences. The one thing I prefer on the MPC One is the dedicated "Program Edit" button. On the Live II it's basically a two-button-press sequence. Cheers!
@@localvariable agreed, the full size pads, phono inputs and SATA port make the Live II a much better option imho
MPC Live, Sir. The only DAW in a box which is battery powered.
good call, i focused on the entry level MPCs, perhaps because they seem to be very popular. i would enjoy speakers on the live too.
That’s two Roland teases in two videos 😅 New synth incoming?!
Why do you need it to be a versatile midi sequencer? Is it not possible to use your nautilus as the brain of your operation and use that to sequence everything else?
MPC ONE+
Your next groovebox should be a 909 and a 303, 😉
that would be so awesome! if only someone would sell me 909 for 100 pounds, which is what i sold mine for...
@@WoodyPianoShack dude, when did you sell a 909 for 100 pounds? in 1985? lol
Maschine Plus is great, it feels like an instrument. Before I had the MPC One, but that's not for me, felt too much like a computer, with double taps, confirmations, non-responsive touch screen. MPC locks you into into weird limitations when it comes to tracks, and how many effects you can use. I didn't like it
oh, that is interesting insights indeed, thanks.
Roland mv1 or mc707
Mpc Live 2
Tracker mini
yikes, never been into that scene, or have never understood it.
MPC live2
Deluge
Polyend play ?
Get iPad Pro 12.9 and with additional 100’s of applications you’ll be covered
I often considered getting a groove-box to add to my setup but after looking at the number of units out there, my head just kept spinning. I had to think about how I could use them in my music making which is mostly new age and ambient or orchestral. I think these units are great for someone looking to make hip-hop or trance type beats that repeat themselves over and over (loopy) but that is not real music. Anyone who thinks they are a musician by just pushing a bunch of colored pads is fooling themselves. Sit down and write real music.
ouch! haha, say what you think! say you connect a midi keyboard controller to your groovebox instead of using the pads.... ;)
I see a market for those devices, but I don't think they are useful (to me...).
With a serious laptop today you have immediate boot, long battery life, good sound quality, immense sofware available.
Why buying another cpu which is more expensive and less flexible? I don't understand...
Laptops don't have physical controls like music keyboard, knobs built in. It's either mouse or keyboard, hardly the same is it? Plus computers need OS updates all the time.
@6581punk With an 80 bucks controller I solve the question. OS update can be switched off while in a project
@@furiobisotti8150The 80 bucks controller Is nice, but not the same as a dedicated controller. About OS, the Internet is full of people complaining about incompatibilities of software caused by updates (and not only OS, also DAWs etc.). Not my experience, I happily use a computer with a controller, but as you can see grooveboxes have their pluses. Ah, they're also cheaper than a laptop (which at least in theory you don't need with a groovebox).
All the latest VSTs are so CPU hungry though it's ridiculous. A bit of outboard stuff relieves all that
@@annother3350 You probably have an old computer
Only two synth tracks + drums, terrible! Only 32 steps max, awful! Should you get a Novation Circuit Tracks? Yes! So so limited, but importantly you won’t be precious about the machine, it’ll always be having around and you’ll end up playing with it more than you can imagine.
nice call! although fails on all my criteria I am tempted just for the fun of it!
You want your cake and eat it too. You already know that you described the new Ableton push but don't want to pay for it. Honestly, this video is a bit annoying. Doesn't sound like anything will ever work out for you.
ah sorry to hera that. but did i not identify 3 instruments that were absolutely perfect for my requirements, albeit 1 was over budget?
Electribe 2S has been my favorite. If only I could go for longer bars on it without having to pattern chain. I've used it to control 3 Volcas and the NTS-1 as well using a MIDI Solutions box.
so..
sample/file/track/project naming workflow.
maschine plus: 90's super nintendo type alphabet on screen a-z and you select a letter with a scroll wheel then hit enter to lay that letter down... next letter.. repeat.
MPC - touch type with the onscreen qwerty keyboard.
haha, it would remind me of entering my initials on the high soore list on arcade machines!
Machine? th-cam.com/video/lredkIIZAYU/w-d-xo.html (sorry, couldn't resist!)