Love the honesty of this video and the 5 shot groups. Light rifles are very difficult to control and making quality handloads is difficult as well. It's rare that anyone who doesn't have great technique and who hasn't been shooting for years would do better. It's hard to find honest critiques and I encourage this type of honesty. Qudos.
Thank you very much we strive to provide honest reviews and information when it comes to all of our productions. It is a thin profile barrel and that certainly could have a lot to do with the accuracy of the rifle. We wanted to show you what you could expect right out of the box with this rifle and with the powders and bullets we selected. Thank you for watching and we appreciate the feedback!
@@HandloaderTV I agree with Richard. Totally impressed with the honesty here. The standard deviation of your loads tell me you or whomever loaded these does quality work. I have a Tikka in .243 Winchester with a light fluted barrel that shoots fantastic until the barrel heats up. Even then it is very accurate. It's feather light for a rifle and shoots excellent. That's a tough combo to compete with if you are a mobile or disabled hunter. I am interested in this caliber you are shooting. It's just that l can go go into most any establishment that sells ammo and find .243 Winchester or 308 Winchester. From 53gr to 100+ with different types of bullets in 243 and 110gr to 200 plus in 308. One gun for everything sounds okay but variety is the spice of life. Especially with firearms.😁 Great job on the video! New Sub. Keep'em coming!
@@kentuckywindage222 Thank you for the kind words. This has quickly turned (much to our surprise) as our most controversial video. We strive to provide honest results and to produce the most accurate handloads possible for any given test we perform. Accurate powder charges, low runout, and testing multiple loads per powder and bullet combination. I have a 30-06 that does the same exact thing I can always predict the 4th or 5th shot depending on barrel temperature to shift left. however 3-4 shots will be well under 1" at 100 yards. The cartridge is starting to catch on and we are seeing more factory ammo offerings but It seems to be far from popular. I agree with you in full variety is the spice of life. Thank you for watching and subscribing we really do appreciate that. We will continue to produce videos as fast as we can make them!
From reading this and seeing the video it seems the forte of the 6.5 PRC(not that it wouldn’t be game capable) to be the long range paper puncher and the 270 WSM/6.8 Westerner to be the hunting rounds. What better classifications with the likes of these to justify owning more rifles!
@@robertfree1908 I do think the 6.5 PRC has applications on game in particular deer and antelope but It certainly would not be a go to elk cartridge for me personally. It is certainly more capable than the 6.5 creedmoor but by how much you be the judge. I do like the .280 WSM and I am dying to get my hands on the 6.8 Western as well. Hopefully one day we can do a video on both! Thanks for watching! --Jeremiah
Brother, love your details! I learned a technique from an old German Gunsmith. If you use a rifle rest where you can "GRIP" the forearm, pull straight back letting the gun ride the bag, your vertical flyers will almost all be eliminated. Watch this video in how the muzzle flies up. The bullet is in the barrel for .200 of an inch during recoil, so bag squeezers that do not grip the forearm suffer in group size, and their ability to analyze groups also suffer
Thank you very much, we appreciate you taking the time to watch and comment! You know you bring up a good point with the recoil it really should be linear and reviewing the footage that certainly could have been a factor. Normally I place my hand on top of the scope to help guide it straight back through recoil and to aid in riding the bags. But I will have to try your technique I do something very similar with lever guns and it works pretty good. Thank you for sharing that bit of wisdom with me! Never too old to learn new tricks and that is what we are all about! --Jeremiah
I think the parent case for the 6.5 PRC is the Ruger 300 RCM and not the 375 Ruger. Great video and it is good to see a hunting rifle instead of what we see today.
I have a 6.5 PRC in a Tikka T3, I can say this cartirdge/rifle combination are extremely accurate. I am shooting 139g Hammer bullets with Retumbo. Always shooting 3/4 or less at 100 yards. I expected your video to show better groups than was displayed given my experience with the 6.5 PRC.
I agree in full I think the cartridge is more than capable of fine accuracy, I was a little disappointed with it as well to be honest. Hindsight being 20/20 I wish I would have done a little more load development but I still think we put a fair amount of different loads through the rifle and it should have performed better. We do our best to showcase the results exactly as we get them though and this particular rifle simply did not perform. I do know that this company is not in business any longer so perhaps this rifle slipped through quality control. I think in the future we'll have to revisit the 6.5 PRC load development and see what kind of accuracy we can get from a different rifle. Thank you for watching and taking the time to comment! --Jeremiah
@@donrandall2030 Thank you I appreciate that we did put a wide variety of loads through this rifle many were not shown on camera, for times sake we only show the best results. I agree I think the rifle very well could be to blame here especially with it being a late production rifle right before the plant closed. As for the copper bullets I try to feature them whenever I can and I would love to do a segment on all copper bullets but sadly that is on the back burner until we get a little more caught up with current projects. Hopefully one day though! The more folks ask though the higher up the list it moves! --Jeremiah
I expected better results also. I have a 6.5saum custom shooting 140 berger hunter reloads. My favorite rifle/caliber I've ever owned. Rifle built by DavTac in Shreveport, LA.
I appreciate the kind words, to be honest I was not really impressed with the groups but I can be a bit of a stickler for accuracy and it is a relative term after all. That said I would not hesitate to hit the field with this rifle. You are very welcome thank you for taking the time to watch and comment it is always greatly appreciated! It is nice to be able to talk about and share the joys of handloading with others! --Jeremiah
@@long-range-eliminator I am not saying that at all, on the contrary when I am developing loads I strive to find the most accurate loads. I am always trying to get the smallest groups possible. Thank you for taking the time to watch and comment! --Jeremiah
We missed some of the standard deviation and extreme spreads on the middle loads. Thank you for the great effort. I also am Jones Ing for your shooting bench.
at 16:05 we review each of the targets and review the data in case you miss any during the shooting scenes. Thank you for watching we are glad you enjoyed the video! That bench is awesome it is a shame the company is not still around!
I am sure we could do more load development and and shrink the group size and perhaps this is something we should revisit in the future. This was one of the first rifles we tested on video and Hindsight being 20/20 I think I would have changed a few things. Thank you for watching and for sharing your experience!
Great video, I have been watching more and more of your videos and I seem to learn a lot on each video. I read some else's comments about using random bullets and loads and not do load development with a single bullet and power. Could you do a video where you pick a bullet and powder and the explain your process of load development then follow that process and going through the range shooting and share your results; then explain how the process produced the results. Show how to find an optimal group for a bullet and powder. Love to see you work the 280 ack imp. Thanks for sharing.
Thank you very much this rifle did not perform quite to my standards but we try to show the results exactly as we get them. We do our best to be open and honest and most importantly unbiased. If it is a new cartridge or a cartridge I am unfamiliar with I will generally shoot a couple of powders with the same bullet. It really just depends on what I am working on. I would love to do a video on load development and the process behind it, the only issue is it is not always the same depending on what cartridge and what kind of rifle it is. It also depends on what my goals are which I believe we discussed on the phone the other day. I think it would be good to detail that so folks know exactly what I am doing and perhaps even how it can differ depending on what my goals are. I do have plans to do a load development video on the .280 AI I have two rifles one is a Nosler M48 Custom with a 24" and the other is a Custom rifle built by Dave Fink on a Remington 700 and it has a 26" barrel. Eventually we will get around to doing both. Thank you for all of your support and your kind words they are greatly appreciated!! --Jeremiah
@@HandloaderTV Jeremiah, That would be awesome and I would love to see how you go about create a great load for those two guns. I think that you should do a video on each one and then maybe a 3rd one to compare the results. I didn't really ever think about what your goals might be, I just thought that get it as tight of a group as possible would be the general goal. But after you and I spoke on the phone I can see where you could have a lot of different goals and then you develop to achieve that goal. When you do you next goal, explain that to the public how you might have different goals and the process might be different depending on your goal. I think they would really benefit from what you told me on the phone. I am looking forward to your load development on the 280 AI. Thanks for sharing. You are a wealth of knowledge. Keep it up!!!
@@michaelnelson1911 It is in the plan I am not sure when but we have it on our to do list! I certainly want to shoot both of the rifles and perhaps even compare it to the 7mm Rem mag as well. I think that would make for a very interesting video! Of course getting components does not make it easy either! That is the general idea for sure I am always looking for the smallest groups but I also don't want to chase my tail for .1" tighter groups. I do like that Idea and I think it would be beneficial to mention. I will try to remember to mention those things in the next load development video! I appreciate it and I appreciate all the support, we will keep the videos coming slow and steady! --Jeremiah
Thanks for the video and your time. I'm not impressed with my 6.5 creedmore I hit a deer behind the shoulder and it missed every vital organ. It came out his spine needless to say I've heard serveal complaints and similar stories. This was a 143 grain Hornaday bullet. I believe ill stick to a 308 or 30 06.
You are very welcome! Thank you for watching we appreciate it. We strive to provide honest and trustworthy reviews and information. I have to say 30-06 is prolly my favorite hunting cartridge (personally). I think it is hard to beat. Thanks for sharing your experience.
There is that thing that rings true ime: shock means a lot with the smaller calibers. I’ve yet to use the 6.5 Creedmoor. I do know it works based on experience related from family and friends that have used it. Cartridges that I’ve used that match the speed of the 6.5 Creed haven’t seemed to shock that well. DRT ime comes from loads starting out fast(at least 3k) or 30 cal and up. And even then it’s not always DRT. Some deer(game animals) have glass jaws. Some don’t. All that said I don’t mind tracking deer 100yrd if need be considering the gun/load I felt like using
I have a similar rifle, a custom I had built a few years ago, before the x3 came out or the PRC was a factory chambering. It Has a Montana 1999 short action magnum, all surfaces squared, with a Benchmark #1 contour and slim line sporter brake, finished at 23 inches. It sits in a modified bell and Carlson Winchester model 70 stock, which I cut out for bolt release and some relief at the bolt. The gun shoots 130 accubonds and 129 accubonds over 60 grains of retumbo into one hole groups, but does heat up fast due to thin barrel. It’s fairly light, wears a 3-9x40 luepold in tally one piece rings. I use it for sheep and caribou in the Yukon, it’s a laser of a gun. Really thankful to see some reloading work online with the caliber, would be nice to see it catch on faster. Would love to get a link to the loads used if at all possible! Thanks.
That is awesome Montana makes a very nice action and outstanding rifles! It sounds like a great build to us! They are very accurate and if we would have had more time I have no doubt that this rifle would shoot half inch 5 shot groups all day long. Unfortunately do to time constrains we only could work up a few different loads for the rifle. Barrel heat was a bit challenging during our testing. we had to let it cool in between shot groups but it was also a warm day. Thank you for watching and the kind words we greatly appreciate your support! Most of the data we used was taken from our 6.5mm cartridges special edition I will paste the link below. The rest of the data was worked up in our lab. You can also find the data on our website Loaddata.com feel free to check it out and search for loads before subscribing. www.wolfeoutdoorsports.com/2019-6-5mm-cartridge-special-edition/
6.5 PRC is my favorite cartridge. The 6.5 Creedmoor was in 2019. I've gad great luck with RL26 and IMR 4831..I have not used my H1000 or Retumbo yet. At 600 yards I'm putting all 5 shots in 1 inch Bulls Eye..sometimes justv4 out of 5 though. Shooting a Bergara Premier Pro 6.5PRC or a Remington 700 PCR. Great video .Enjoyed it. Im now a New Subscriber
It really is a great cartridge! I am a big fan I know the cartridge is capable of more accuracy than what is displayed here in this video I think with a little more load development and perhpas having the gunsmith look over the rifle we could have achieved much better accuracy. We try and show results exactly as we get them though and this is how the factory rifle performed. Those Bergara rifles are super nice. Glad you enjoyed the video and thank you so much for watching! We greatly appreciate it!
I think the first group with the partition would have grouped better had the final shot been taken sooner. Some people think it’s superstitious, but I try not to load the next round until have my eyes on the target. I worry the round gets cooked off. Sure enough, 5th shot hit higher than the cold bore.
It was a very hot day and I am sure that played a factor in the accuracy especially with such a thin profiled barrel. I think there is some merit to the round heating up in the chamber for sure! In particular with powders that are sensitive to temperature.
sure that is covered at 17:46 1.06" group with a standard deviation of 6.1 and an extreme spread of 18. I have no doubt that a seating depth test could find a more accurate COAL for that particular rifle.
I don't know what your standard is, but the group sizes ranged from very poor to average. When I buy a new rifle, I use one powder (ADI) as it is the only one easily available, choose the case, primer and projectile. Then start the loads at 10% less than max, in .3 to .4 grain increments to 10% over recommended max loads and try them out. I stop when a group clover leaf's. If none i then try another powder or projectile, never change two or more components.
It depends on the Rifle this one had a sub MOA guarantee so that was the standard for this rifle. Of course the goal is always the smallest groups possible. Hindsight being 20/20 We probably should have spent more time developing handloads for this rifle. We were on a bit of a time crunch to finish this video. That is pretty much what we do with our load development as well but we do not go over max pressure. I would encourage you to check out our other videos as we are always trying to improve our content! Thank you for watching!
Finally got h1000 and magpro on the way to try…love to see you test a Borden and mcquarter both with your attention to detail Jeremiah…I wish alpha would make prc brass. I’ve used a few there .308…always greatful for your work….thanks a bushel…matt
That is great news! Best of luck to you in your load development. I would love to test those actions and rifles as well but it's just a matter of getting components lined up, those are also pretty expensive actions so I would have to have to able to get some value out of them such as be able to do multiple videos or something along that nature. If the opportunity arises I would love to put them to the test though! I too like Alpha brass it is great stuff, hopefully in the future they'll offer more cartridges. Thanks for watching and for your continued support! --Jeremiah
I think with a little work on hand loads, that Montana rifle will shoot much better than it does. A friend has one in 280 AI that shoots 5/8” groups using 140 Accubonds that leave the barrel at 3150.
Yeah I think that if we do a little more load development we could prolly shrink the groups. Maybe even take a look at the rifle and check the bedding etc. Something I think we will have to revisit in the future for sure!
We had no feeding issues with the PRC and the Montana action, the controlled round feed was a nice feature. We would love to do something on the 6.5 Weatherby RPM and let you guys compare the two. I am not sure it would be an apples to apples comparison given the PRC is a short action cartridge (2.955") and the RPM is a long action cartridge (3.340"). unfortunately at this time we are so backlogged it would be quite a while before we can get to it. Thank you for watching and thank you for the feedback we greatly appreciate it!
@@HandloaderTV Thanks for the reponse!! I would love to see the review of 6.5 RPM & 6.5 PRC. You could also throw in the Creed and maybe the 260 & 264!! I've been very interested in the 6.5 PRC since it came out. Wanting a very accurate round that I can shoot 600 to 800 yards regularly is the goal and the 284 necked down to 6.5 appeals to me for this reason. Thanks again!
@@daleandersen9579 You are very welcome we do our best to answer every question. If your willing to take the time to watch it is the least we can do! We do have a .260 and multiple 6.5 creeds. It is a very interesting cartridge and so far we like the cartridge itself. I believe that Nosler just got the 6.5-284 approved by SAAMI if they begin chambering rifles in the cartridge I am sure we could do a video on one of those rifles fairly easily. It sounds like you are a big 6.5 guys and I would highly suggest checking out our 6.5mm cartridges special edition if you haven't already I think it would greatly appeal to you and could provide some very useful comparisons for you. link below. www.wolfeoutdoorsports.com/2019-6-5mm-cartridge-special-edition/
@@HandloaderTV Wow!! Nosler came out with the 6.5-284, that's basically the same as the WBY 6.5 RPM! I hadn't heard about it, but can they both survive??
@@daleandersen9579 Yeah there are some very interesting things going on I believe that all took place sometime last year. I am not a betting man but if i was my money would be on the 6.5-284.
Bergara makes very nice rifles. I think this may be something we revisit in the future, do a little work on the rifle and the loads and see if we can't get better accuracy out of it. We strive to show honest test results and this is what we got. A lot of people seem to think the rifle can do better and they may be right.
Thanks for the great video. I really enjoyed it. The scenery is great. The range that I’m allowed to set up my chrono is usually packed with too many shooters to allow the kind of peace you get to enjoy out there. You’ve got me a little closer to trying a 6.5 PRC. I still have so many load development projects ahead of me. And I’m still dead set on the next being a 300 PRC. Got any videos on that one? Thanks again for your efforts and keep the videos coming!
Thank you so much for watching we are glad you enjoyed it. We did not get as much time as we wanted with this rifle to work up a whole lot of loads but I do think this is an accurate representation of what you can expect within the first 50-75 rounds of load development. I can 100% relate to that We have so many projects we want to do and the .300 PRC is certainly one of them sadly at this time we have no rifle chambered in .300 PRC on hand. So I am not sure when we will be able to get around to that. Thank you for all your support and commenting we greatly appreciate it!
Another great video for the handloading, hunting, and shooting community. Got my eye on the 300 PRC. Already have the dies, just can't seem to find any cases yet. Would love to see you put one through its handloading and grouping paces, if the opportunity ever presents itself. Cheers my friend. 👍🏿
Thank you very much for the kind words and the feedback, I have heard a lot of good things about the .300 PRC and I would love to tinker with that in the future, I have to do .300 WIn mag first though that has been on the list for a while but .300 PRC is on the radar for sure! Finding components these days is just plain hard they are out there but you gotta look hard that is for sure. Thanks for watching and for the kind words! --Jeremiah
I don't know which part of this video had me feeling the most vicarious envy: that Montana Arms sporter, that breathtaking backdrop (what a beautiful place), or that shooting bench. Man where do I get that bench in a left-handed form factor? Jeremiah, I enjoyed the showcasing of that really nice rifle and of course the 6.5mm PRC. Apart from the 6.5-284, it is my favorite 264 bore, in terms of fun and accuracy and first in terms of availability in my area. Thank you for the time, effort, and expense in doing it. I look forward to trying some of these powders and bullets in my rife!
Ha ha, It really is a nice rifle, I think the accuracy could have been a little better but all things considered it was not that bad, certainly adequate for hunting. Thank you, I do like our range that we have set up, it's pretty country. As far as the shooting bench goes sadly that is a Konig Jager Super Bench and they are no longer in business. These days I steer most folks over to Stukey's sturdy shooting benches. They do pretty good and can be used by left or right handed shooters as well. I do like the 6.5mm cartridges a lot as well. That was what I used to harvest my first big game animal as a kid so they have a soft spot in my heart. You are very welcome thank you for taking the time to watch and comment!! The feedback is always appreciated! --Jeremiah
I really wish I could tell you It is a Konig Jager Superbench and sadly the company is no longer in business and benches are very hard to find. They really are great benches though. Alternatively we suggest Stukey's Sturdy Shooting Benches they work very well and are portable but not as resistant to the weather sadly. Thanks for watching and great question I wish I could be of more help.
I have and I have plans to revisit the cartridge and perhaps even do so with the new Montana Rifle Company rifles. We show the results exactly as we get them in our videos though and these were the best results from our standard load development. I am sure with some tweaking we could have got this rifle to shoot better we just couldn't do it within our standard load development. We test each rifle using the same methods to keep it consistent and make each video comparable to one another. Thanks for watching and taking the time to comment! --Jeremiah
Certainly, it is a Konig Jager Super Bench, unfortunately as far as we can tell the company is no longer in business. It is very difficult to find these things and they are very expensive. Retail on them was about $2,500 if I remember correctly. They are really great benches made from 1/4 inch aluminum they are over engineered and work very well. If you are looking for another great bench option we would suggest checking out Stukeys Shooting Bench as an alternative and are still being made.
I've noticed yall have nothing on the 6.8 western. Do you plain on making a vedio on that cal. Any time soon ? Would like to see how yall put one together rifel wise with and without reloads . Great channel by the way awesome content
Glad to hear that you enjoyed the video! Unfortunately that bench is a Konig Jager Super bench and the company is no longer around and they are very hard to find on the used market. It really is a great bench and I wish they were still making them! These days we recommend Stukey's sturdy shooting benches and that is what we use whenever we are not on our range. Thanks for watching and taking the time to comment! --Jeremiah
It is a Konig Jager Super Bench but sadly they are not longer in business, these days we recommend Stukey's sturdy shooting benches as they are solid and very portable. Great question thank you for watching and taking the time to comment! --Jeremiah
Thank you very much, It is a Konig Jager Super Bench and sadly the company that made them is no longer in business, After all the comments I get on it I am amazed that they did go out of business! Sadly I have no idea where you could get one now. I usually steer folks to Stukey's Sturdy Shooting benches as an alternative. Great question and thanks for watching! --Jeremiah
No it is definitely not as smooth as a Mauser or Sauer bolt, Even the accuracy was not quite where I wanted it to be but I appreciate the kind words and thank you for taking the time to watch the video!! --Jeremiah
I'm not sure, but it looks like the cartridge neck is too short. Similarly, years ago, when the 308 Win. Replaced the 300 savage. Baybe, the action length made it necessary.
I'm wondering what some of the energy levels would be on these different loads. It seems like you could get very similar performance from the old .270 Winchester. The only difference would be the .270 is far easier to find and far cheaper to shoot.
The mathematical calculation for kinetic energy is as follows. The formula for calculating kinetic energy (KE) is KE = 0.5 x mv2. Here m stands for mass, the measure of how much matter is in an object, and v stands for velocity of the object, or the rate at which the object changes its position. You can easily calculate this for any of our loads since we list our velocities. It should help give you an idea for the energy difference between our loads and what you have worked up in your .270 Winchester. Thanks for watching and taking the time to comment! --Jeremiah
@@twowheelsrollin9049 Sorry I wish there was better news! Sometimes you can find them used but it is very very rare. Best of luck and good shooting to you! --Jeremiah
@@HandloaderTV how thick is the barrel? I have a few 6.5 rifles and I don’t shoot more than 2-3 shots before I let them cool off. Two of them have carbon wrapped barrels. Do yo guys use any fans to speed up the cooling? I’m thinking of buying one.
@@ArpexOfficial it is a normal barrel. We don't use anything special to cool the barrel. The ambient temperature here in Arizona could be 106 in the summer so that is the starting temperature of the barrel on some of the days.
Sadly they do not make them any longer it is a Konig Jager super bench. These days we recommend Stukey's Sturdy shooting benches which is featured in our 28 Nosler vs. 7mm Rem mag video and in our video on the Oehler System 89. They are great benches and are also quite portable as well. Thanks for watching and great question wish I had better news for you! --Jeremiah
@@bullfisher2330 You're very welcome, Thank you for watching! The air is pretty thin at the range being a mile high or so We tend to get a little higher velocities. Speed and accuracy what more could you ask for!
That is impressive indeed! We do our very best to showcase the rifle as is in real conditions and we show the results as they are good or bad. We strive to showcase honest and real results you can trust! Thank you for watching.
Where did the black hat 🎩 go? I want my money back! Kidding great video I want a Christensen Arms 30-06 in left hand they only make 300 win mag and 7 rem mag in left hand and I want to bring 30-06 as a long range bullet I think with new bullet technology the 30-06 would be a cool long range hunter!🤯🔫✊🏿
HA HA!! Glad to hear you enjoyed the video! Thank you very much for watching. The 30-06 is a classic cartridge and in my mind it will never go out of style, with new bullets and powders it is better than ever and capable of some very impressive velocities and ballistics. I don't think you can go wrong with that cartridge.
We wanted to showcase this rifle in it's stock configuration so that way everyone knows exactly what you are getting from this rifle. We do our best to keep our results fair and unbiased and always honest! Thank you for watching and for the comment!
Anneal your brass probably every five loadings. You might find it will shoot just a little bit tighter groups. And neck size only if you're going to continue firing in the same rifle. It will reduce the amount of free play Within the chamber. I got thoroughly spoiled by my first Centerfire rifle. A Ruger Model 77 in 7 millimeter mag. A benchrest shooter gave me a load, I put the scope on it and I adjusted the trigger to just about as light as I felt comfortable with, it was probably about two and a half pound. I fired nine rounds to cite the firearm in and then I shot a 20 round group that headache Center to Center spread of .049 in. Beat the living hell out of me at the bench because of that really thin Barrel. But boy did it shoot. That was in 1979. With Hodgdon h4350 and a load that was three grains over the top-load I can find in any manual. But the good thing about it 4350 is you cannot overload the cartridge. It is that slow a powder. I would try the Vita Vithouri only because it burns at a much cooler temperature.
That is all good advice and I agree with the neck sizing or shoulder bumping to improve accuracy however we wanted to show you what you could expect with new cases as you perform load development. I am sure there are a few loads in there that we could tweak and get better performance from. We strive for honest and reliable results that you can trust. That sounds like an awesome Rifle and excellent groups. I would be very weary of going over maximum not to say that it can't be done safely and within pressure as there are so many factors that can effect pressure but extreme caution should be used and attention to velocity is critical, I would handle it on a case by case basis. Hodgdon-4350 is an outstanding powder though and Vihtavuori always seems very consistent and temperature insensitive for the most part. Thank you for watching and sharing your experience!
@@brucepreston3927 We have a lot of projects in the works a revisit is on the backburner but it is on the list! That is some very interesting results I will pass that info along it may be a fun test to duplicate.
Being that you can buy cheap scope levels, it couldn't hurt to add one to your scope for future testing...It really does make a difference even at 100yrds...
The camera angle while at the bench makes the shooter appear that his angled when in fact he is not. If we had more time to develop loads I am sure we could achieve half MOA easily with this particular rifle. Perhaps we should do a part two taking the loads we have and showing what we can do to increase accuracy. Something to think about. Thanks for the comment and thank you for watching!
Handloader TV I’m not trying to be seriously critical here because I enjoy the channel. However one thing that stands out to me is I have observed the host picking the rifle up off the sand bag rest, in a couple videos ,right in the middle of a group. To be fair to the load, rifle and shooter evaluation this creates an element of inconsistency. Just saying when I shoot groups I do the best I can to keep the rifle as solid as possible on the bags/ rest, save for recoil, as an attempt to have the rifle be in as near as the same location/ position it was from shot to shot. That being said I enjoy the channel very much. Good to have!
@@raymondbuie5292 Thank you for watching! We are glad you like the channel! We did our very best to return the rifle to the same exact spot every time on the bags however that is true it does induce a variable in the situation and could have effected consistency shot to shot. We are currently looking into getting a better front bag/rest. We appreciate the kind constructive feedback. We are always trying to improve our videos and we are committed to high quality productions for our audience! We hope that you see an improvement in the future videos as we continue to produce new content. Thanks again for watching and the feedback!
No not anymore! It is quite sad, I am hoping that it comes back, we need all the powder we can get these days! I have a few pounds of it left but there is no sense in adding it to a video if nobody can get it. Thanks for watching and taking the time to comment! --Jeremiah
That's really sub-par accuracy for a rifle these days. You know how to shoot, and those are some great components; 1" - 1.25" groups for a premium rifle at that price point are unacceptable. Guess it's not a surprise they aren't around any more.
I agree with you and we thought about trying more loads but the components used were pretty good and it wouldn't be fair if we gave this rifle "special attention" compared to what we normally do with every other rifle. We do our best to present the results as we get them. We don't hide the facts or results we just present them and let the user make the decisions. Thanks for taking the time to watch and comment and for the kind words about my shooting. I do my best for these videos. --Jeremiah
Kent, We agree in full It is more than accurate to harvest game at reasonable ranges, in all of our testing the scope held zero perfectly. We use a lot of Leupold scopes in our testing and even personally for hunting and they have yet to let me down. Thank you for watching! -Jeremiah
Yes, the Leupold VX-3i features a parallax adjustment. You'll see Jeremiah check it in the video, I assume you mean the 127 grain LRX loads. We cut out time in between shots to help keep the video shorter. Our editor just works a little magic and makes it look "seamless". A lot more time passes between shots than what is shown here and the barrel was given time to cool in between loads. Thanks for the comment and thanks for watching!
It was a little disappointing perhaps with more load development and more time we could have gotten it to shoot a little better or with a bedding job. However we showcase the results as we get them and we don't cut any corners. If we showcase something on this channel and it makes the cut we showcase the results as we get them. We strive for honest results and less opinion. Thank you for watching and taking the time to comment! --Jeremiah
He’s limited to loading to mag length of 2.95 due to SA. He may not even know how much throat (Freebore) he has. Build on XM action, custom throat for 156 EOLS and just make 1 hole in target. Develop optimum load and only shoot that load for anything & everything.
We were limited a little bit by magazine length some bullets had significant jump that is true. I know the cartridge is capable of better accuracy but we ran through our standard load development and this is the results we got. We strive for honesty in our reviews and we wanted to show everyone what you can expect with a factory out of the box Montana Rifle. Perhaps we should revisit it with more time spent on load development and see what this rifle is really capable of with fine tuning.
@@HandloaderTV you will still be limited by your short action. The 6.5 PRC was developed as a commercial rifle for commercial ammo. It was a mistake. Do the math on commercial hornady 147’s and see how much bullet bearing surface is buried beneath the case neck junction. You will only see maximum efficiency from this cartridge using the XM action. I shoot 1 hole groups with the 156 EOLs at 3130 FPS with COAL of 3.1+. The good thing is due to the popularity of the 6.5 PRC there has been an emergence of manufacturers for XM length actions, bottom metal, & mags. My 1st was difficult to build due to finding parts. My 2nd has been very easy.
@@strengthcourage9149 That is very true, and I think that has a lot to do with the lack of performance. It is true the bullets are seated unusually deep in the short action. I believe you on the accuracy and I have been a long time fan of the Berger bullets in general. However at this time we can not justify building an expensive custom rifle to do a video.
I hate to be the doubter, but with handloading and a high end rifle like that with 6.5 PRC at 100 yards, I'm thinking "good" groups are 0.8" or better and "great" groups are 0.45" or better. My cheap (compared to a Montana Rifle) Remington 700 American Hunter with 6.5 Creedmoor 143 G ELD-X commercial Hornady Precision Hunter ammo prints 0.5" or better groups at 100 yards and 1.65" groups at 350 yards all day long. What's your thoughts? Is PRC not as accurate as Creedmoor? Can't be! I'm thinking that you can't shoot accurately through a chronograph.
I agree with you I think this rifle is capable of 1/2 MOA with a good load, which without the flyer was almost achieved on the last group. I have no doubt that load would perform extremely well at distances beyond 300 yards given the low SD and ES. We also would get the barrel hot after firing 5 shot strings only after the 5 shots would we let it cool, and it was a hot day this could have also played a factor. I think the cartridge accuracy is comparable to the Creedmoor, however when we produce these videos we are on time constraints as we always have another one in the works at the same time. If we had more time to tweak loads and perform seating depth tests I am sure that performance could easily be improved. By the time we got to our last load things were starting to become more refined unfortunately we also ran out of time. This is a good base line for starting out and perhaps we could do a follow up video with a few seating depth tests tweaks to help improve performance. If you are doubtful of the shooters ability I would recommend watching this video here. th-cam.com/video/TMikHqOkzdk/w-d-xo.html We strive to show our results in an honest manner and we like to show our results good or bad. We only put about 50 rounds through this rifle and with various different bullets and powders and these were the results. I hope this answers all your questions and if you have any further questions don't hesitate to reach out. We read all of our comments and are committed to audience. Thank you for watching and thank you for your comment!
David - could you please clarify what you mean by “1.65 inch groups at 350 yards all day long”? For instance how many groups? Are they all 1.65” as you wrote or do they vary & if so by how much? How many shots in each group?
@@Russell-1 The "...all day long..." comment was regarding the 100 yard groups. I've spent April to November (20 days at the range) shooting 5-shot 0.5" or better (0.34" best) groups at 100 yards with my Rem-700 American Hunter (recoil lug glass bedded and Timney Trigger at 1.8 lbs). Also, I took it out during that period to a longer range where I shot a 1.65" 4-shot group at 350 yards (would attach a photo if I could).
Just wait for TC to chamber it in the Venture. I've got one in a 270 win that shoots under 1/2 inch with factory ammo. I know other TC owners using different calibers with same results.
We do our best to showcase the rifle in an honest fashion and we don't skew any numbers and we be sure to show our results. We probably could have tightened up the groups with more load development and seating depth tests. However we did our best to pick the best loads we could and what we thought would perform the best. Thanks again for watching and for the comment.
I agree in full, I have thought about dusting it off and seeing if it would shoot any better but just haven't gotten around to it and since they are not around anymore seems like a mute point for a video. I can't help but wonder if that is why they are not around anymore. Either way thanks for watching we do our very best to showcase the results exactly as we get them and pride ourselves with honest assessments and evaluations. --Jeremiah
I purchased a Browning X Bolt Hells Canyon in 6.5 PRC along with Hornady ammo and after getting the scope set it shoots 1/2 "groups at 100 yards. I would have expected at least that amount of accuracy from a gun that costs twice as much.
Browning has been making some nice rifles as of lately. We shot Hornady Match ammo and produced about 1" groups with this rifle. I think with some work and more load development the rifle could do better. Perhaps we can do a follow up in the near future However we wanted to show the results as they were. We strive for honest and trustworthy information for our audience. Thank you for watching.
@@HandloaderTV Did you lap the scope rings and throw some bedding in there?? Most rifles, no matter how good need that little extra. I think with a few of those loads you can tighten them up. I guess if a guy wants to shoot a factory he can BUT I have found my best loads beat factory 9 out of ten...just find the node.
@@gregrauscher4524 We did lap the scope rings however we did not alter the rifle itself in any way from it's factory condition so that way our viewers can know what to expect right out of the box. Perhaps this is something that we should revisit in the future and see if we can tighten up these groups a little bit. Tweaking the rifle and the loads. I agree in full handloads shoot better than factory 99% of the time. Thank you for watching!
I just got the same gun. I haven’t shot it much finally got some ammo. I have some 156 Berger coming next week. I like to shoot 1000 yards. I also tweaked the trigger to 2.2 three port area 419 muzzle break makes it nice to shoot
@@fordracer1415 That's awesome! We have a couple of those 156 Bergers we really need to try them out, they should work well in that cartridge definitely a good choice for hitting steel at extended ranges!
There is a lot of time between shots that is edited out we also edit out the changing of the targets to keep the video shorter. Our editor just works a little magic and makes it look "seamless" If you have doubts about the shooters capability I would encourage you to check out this video here on the 22-250. th-cam.com/video/TMikHqOkzdk/w-d-xo.html I think the rifle is capable of better accuracy however more time was needed to develop loads. We strive to show our results in an open and honest fashion. We want a production that our audience can trust! Thank you for watching and for the feedback.
Ha ha I suppose you could look at it that way. Parent case usually refers to the original case used to create the cartridge for example the 6.5 Creedmoor is the parent case of the 6mm Creedmoor. You also have the .22 Creedmoor but it's parent case is the 6.5 Creedmoor not the 6mm Creedmoor even though it's easier to neck 6mm creed to .22 creed the original case it was based off was the 6.5 Creedmoor. Hopefully that makes sense and is not too confusing, basically the .375 Ruger has more than one kid lol! Thanks for watching and thanks for commenting!
Glad you liked the video, Thank you for watching! We actually purchased this rifle for testing and in case we should ever want to revisit the cartridge or the rifle.
Hey mate. A little advice if you don't mind. The 6.5 was created by necking down a 300 ruger compact not a 375. The 375 is the 300 prc. Your shooting position isn't comfortable. I can tell from the video. Your shooting arm and wrist is way too wide and should be straight so your wrist and trigger finger line up with he stock. Will help getting a better squeeze on the trigger and straight pull with the finger. You have massive muzzle jump which won't help with accuracy testing. Also when single feeding you don't need to push the round into the magazine just sit it free in the chamber and push your bolt. forward. Keep going bro. I'll check back later.
Thanks for dropping a comment we appreciate it! The .300 Ruger compact is based off the .375 Ruger, which by definition would be considered the parent case. In the same manner the 30-06 is the parent case of many different cartridges. Consistency is key to accuracy we took great care to ensure the rifle was placed on the bag as close as possible to the original position as possible. I will pass your tip along to our shooter, however everyone is different and I am sure he had his reasons as well. I do agree the rifle could have rode the bags a little better. The Montana bolt is similar to a model 70 Winchester and features controlled round feeding. It would be counter productive to force the extractor over the rim of the cartridge with this design. Which is why cartridges were loaded in the magazine. We appreciate the comment and hope this addresses your issues and explains our reasoning. Thank you for watching and good shooting!
I would be pissed off if my Savage's shot like that. All my savages do 1/2 to 3/4 inch with minimal load development, granted they are varmint calibers but 6.5 PRC shoulda done better. It isn't the shooter, that guy can shoot. In the 22-250 video he laid down numerous 1/2 inch 5 shot groups. I appreciate them showing the groups though and being honest. Good channel.
@@bmoorear Thank you for the kind words and the compliment on the shooting. We do our very best to be honest and show our results and the rifles without skewing the results. I am sure with some extra load development and seating depth tests we could have shrunk the groups however we did not really have the time with this particular video and it goes to show you what you would have to do to get this rifle to shoot. Perhaps we should revisit this rifle in the future and see what we need to do to make it shoot better. Thank you for your support and for watching our videos! We greatly appreciate it.
Production rifle with production ammo, RPR with Hornaday147 eldm. .38 to .52moa at 100y and ring 3in steel eight for ten at 600y. Something is wrong here!
Without the flyer the last group was .69" which is not a bad group. We prolly could have done more load development however we like to be honest and open with our audience, we show the results for what they are good or bad.
@@dragonflyfab9703 Perhaps we shall revisit this and do a detailed work up with different powders and see if we can get the rifle to shoot a little better. It's always a struggle to fit everything into the video and keep it at a reasonable length.
You should send that gun back I thought montana rifle company rifles are shooters. A high grade custom type rifle should have a average group of .5 to 1 inch not 1.5 to 1 inch
Sadly Montana Rifle Company is no longer in business, this rifle was one of the later production rifles not sure if it was missed in quality control or what the deal was. I am sure with more load development we could have gotten it to shoot a little better but we do our best to showcase our results exactly as we get them and let the viewer make any decisions about performance. I will admit that personally I was a little disappointed in the rifles performance. This is a cartridge I would like to revisit in the future perhaps after having a gunsmith check out the rifle and re-bed it or perhaps with an entirely different rifle. I appreciate you watching and for taking the time to comment! Good shooting and happy handloading!
I don't want to be critical but some of this may be the shooter. You never said anything about wind or really any conditions you where shooting in you are obviously out west but for what this rifle and cartridge are capable of well I don't think your getting what you paid for it you need to work on fundamentals. And instead of bouncing around with powders and bullet weights pick one and increase powder charge to see how that bullet does. Then go to the next weight and powder and do the same thing. You had groups all over and place and had nothing to compare them to. Hope you can get this dialed I cause like I said this rifle and found are very capable. Good luck.
I don't mind critical comments at all, in fact I welcome them so long as the folks are being polite and reasonable such as yourself. There certainly could have been some shooter error involved in some groups. However, I do know I am capable of better groups than what was displayed in this video. Check out this video we did on the 22-250, th-cam.com/video/TMikHqOkzdk/w-d-xo.html It pains me to say that this was one of our earlier videos before we really had a system worked out and things were not very well explained. We did test multiple powders and bullets when developing loads we just showed the best results we got. We never really got good groups with this rifle and I am not sure if I did not experiment enough when it comes to the variety of loads I tried or if the rifle is not as accurate as it should have been. This was one of the last production rifles made by Montana Rifle Company before they went out of business. I am thinking I need to revisit this cartridge at some point. I know the cartridge is capable of much greater accuracy than what was displayed here.
Maybe it’s just me and me being picky but for the price of that gun those bullets should be hole in hole. Definitely at only 100 yards. Those bullet impacts are all over the place.
We prolly could have gotten the rifle to shoot better with more load development, however we like to show everything for what it is no skewed group sizes, what you see is what you get.We take pride in our honesty when it comes to our content. Thank you for watching we appreciate it!
@@stgraves260 They are nice rifles, we have covered them a few times in the magazine with good results. Perhaps we should revisit this rifle and tweak our handloads to see if we can't get better performance.
@@HandloaderTV this was a pretty good video and I really appreciate your TH-cam channel. Realistic and honest presentation. I would have a gunsmith look over the rifle, check all torque specs before reenacting load development. This last year, I bought a very nice used Xbolt in .30-06. I did have work done on the stock and was refinished, by a gunsmith. However, it shot inconsistently. The range master was a Viet Nam vet, he check the torque on my pillars, and the groups instantly shrank, and was very consistent. It was like a different rifle. They were not noticeablely loose, but they do need be checked and properly secured. Thanks again, keep up the great videos. I miss the magazine, can't get it anymore here in Germany.
BigO4185 I agree, but they are typical of Montana Rifle Company guns. I've dinked with a couple of MRC's (not mine, thankfully) and they shot the same way. For what they cost they should do a lot better.
@@luvtahandload7692 We do our best to provide honest and reliable information to all our viewers just as we do in the magazine. No skewed results no shrinking of groups or inaccurate measurements. A "we report you decide" attitude. Then everyone can decide for themselves if that is acceptable accuracy or has the features they like for the cost of the product. Thank you for watching and thank you for the support!
We show our results as they, we strive to provide honest reviews and reliable information. We would be curious to hear how your Browning shoots, I am sure you would be able to achieve sub MOA fairly easily.
Personally, I don't see the point of what you did. Random loads producing random results. It would be more informative if you showed some load development. See what you can get with a specific power and bullet through load development. My .02.
I appreciate you taking the time to cordially share your thoughts I really do appreciate that. We actually tested a lot more than what we showed here probably somewhere around 100-150 rounds if I remember correctly starting at minimum and working our way up to maximum but that was not clearly stated in the video since then we have been sure to add that note to all future videos stating exactly what we did and how we did it. This is one of our earlier videos and we were still working out some of the quirks. I would like to revisit this and revisit the rifle after going through it and ensuring that all is in order there. Thanks you for watching and thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts. It really helps improve the content and gives me ideas on what to do in the future. -- Jeremiah
The gun must be a dud.. IF I had groups like that.. Id be losing my mind and and throwing a serious man fit."looking good".. My lord.. I am dying inside right now.. Moving on..
It is funny to read the comments on these videos some people really like the accuracy of the rifle and some people think it's terrible. Regardless we show the results exactly as we get them. We don't fudge the numbers edit out the flyers. We do our very best to be honest with our viewers so they can know what to expect from these firearms we test and let them decide for themselves . And I must admit this one is one of the less accurate rifles we have tested. I think with some tweaking and perhaps a little more load development we could have gotten better groups but we wanted to show folks what they could expect with a factory Rifle like this one. Thank you for watching -- Jeremiah.
No it did not sadly, in handling and testing some of their other guns they seemed like they were nice rifles and I think they had a lot of potential in their action. Thanks for watching and taking the time to comment! --Jeremiah
@@HandloaderTV I had ordered one of their rifles for an upcoming hunting season. The delivery date they gave me would have allowed 4 months to get the rifle setup and ready for my hunt. I ended having to get a different rifle 4 days before my hunt because of numerous lies from them. I’m sure they were great rifles but I won’t support a company that lies to me. I was glad to see them go.
@@Sean-pw3yr That is a shame, I hate hearing stories like that! they certainly had a lot of production issues that I was aware. That is poor customer service for sure. I am glad that I got to try out their action and test their rifle before they went under. However I don't blame you after what you went through with them. I would not be happy either! I appreciate you taking the time to share your experience! --Jeremiah
There always is a human error factor when shooting and I don't ever deny that but when I can take out my 22-250, 22 Creedmoor, or even 7mm Rem mag and get better results across the board something tells me it is not the shooter. I don't like having to blame the gun, but we do our best to provide good honest information and show the results exactly as we get them. We shoot a lot of loads and if that is the best we got across 200 rounds which is about what we shoot in our typical load development. Then that is the best we got. We try and let the results speak for themselves. I have attached links to each of the videos below should you wish to evaluate the shooter and see for yourself if I am capable of holding and shooting better groups. th-cam.com/video/hwboxumE6HM/w-d-xo.html 7mm Rem mag video th-cam.com/video/TMikHqOkzdk/w-d-xo.html 22-250 video th-cam.com/video/OrgAq7bvRi4/w-d-xo.html 22 Creedmoor video th-cam.com/video/OrgAq7bvRi4/w-d-xo.html?t=700 quick reference for comparison
Certainly not as good as I like, we do our best to showcase the results as we get them though and provide the viewer with the most accurate and reliable data possible. Thank you for watching! --Jeremiah
We strive to provide out honest results with the loads and rifles we test. Perhaps with more load development and some tweaking we could have gotten smaller groups but we wanted to show you what we got With basic load development and an off the shelf, unmodified rifle. If you doubt our shooters capability watch his video on the .22-250 here th-cam.com/video/TMikHqOkzdk/w-d-xo.html I assure you he knows how to shoot and how to handload and shoot small groups.
Love the honesty of this video and the 5 shot groups. Light rifles are very difficult to control and making quality handloads is difficult as well. It's rare that anyone who doesn't have great technique and who hasn't been shooting for years would do better. It's hard to find honest critiques and I encourage this type of honesty. Qudos.
Thank you very much we strive to provide honest reviews and information when it comes to all of our productions. It is a thin profile barrel and that certainly could have a lot to do with the accuracy of the rifle. We wanted to show you what you could expect right out of the box with this rifle and with the powders and bullets we selected. Thank you for watching and we appreciate the feedback!
@@HandloaderTV
I agree with Richard. Totally impressed with the honesty here. The standard deviation of your loads tell me you or whomever loaded these does quality work. I have a Tikka in .243 Winchester with a light fluted barrel that shoots fantastic until the barrel heats up. Even then it is very accurate. It's feather light for a rifle and shoots excellent. That's a tough combo to compete with if you are a mobile or disabled hunter. I am interested in this caliber you are shooting. It's just that l can go go into most any establishment that sells ammo and find .243 Winchester or 308 Winchester. From 53gr to 100+ with different types of bullets in 243 and 110gr to 200 plus in 308. One gun for everything sounds okay but variety is the spice of life. Especially with firearms.😁
Great job on the video!
New Sub.
Keep'em coming!
@@kentuckywindage222 Thank you for the kind words. This has quickly turned (much to our surprise) as our most controversial video. We strive to provide honest results and to produce the most accurate handloads possible for any given test we perform. Accurate powder charges, low runout, and testing multiple loads per powder and bullet combination. I have a 30-06 that does the same exact thing I can always predict the 4th or 5th shot depending on barrel temperature to shift left. however 3-4 shots will be well under 1" at 100 yards. The cartridge is starting to catch on and we are seeing more factory ammo offerings but It seems to be far from popular. I agree with you in full variety is the spice of life. Thank you for watching and subscribing we really do appreciate that. We will continue to produce videos as fast as we can make them!
From reading this and seeing the video it seems the forte of the 6.5 PRC(not that it wouldn’t be game capable) to be the long range paper puncher and the 270 WSM/6.8 Westerner to be the hunting rounds. What better classifications with the likes of these to justify owning more rifles!
@@robertfree1908 I do think the 6.5 PRC has applications on game in particular deer and antelope but It certainly would not be a go to elk cartridge for me personally. It is certainly more capable than the 6.5 creedmoor but by how much you be the judge. I do like the .280 WSM and I am dying to get my hands on the 6.8 Western as well. Hopefully one day we can do a video on both! Thanks for watching! --Jeremiah
Brother, love your details! I learned a technique from an old German Gunsmith. If you use a rifle rest where you can "GRIP" the forearm, pull straight back letting the gun ride the bag, your vertical flyers will almost all be eliminated. Watch this video in how the muzzle flies up. The bullet is in the barrel for .200 of an inch during recoil, so bag squeezers that do not grip the forearm suffer in group size, and their ability to analyze groups also suffer
Thank you very much, we appreciate you taking the time to watch and comment! You know you bring up a good point with the recoil it really should be linear and reviewing the footage that certainly could have been a factor. Normally I place my hand on top of the scope to help guide it straight back through recoil and to aid in riding the bags. But I will have to try your technique I do something very similar with lever guns and it works pretty good. Thank you for sharing that bit of wisdom with me! Never too old to learn new tricks and that is what we are all about! --Jeremiah
I think the parent case for the 6.5 PRC is the Ruger 300 RCM and not the 375 Ruger. Great video and it is good to see a hunting rifle instead of what we see today.
I have a 6.5 PRC in a Tikka T3, I can say this cartirdge/rifle combination are extremely accurate. I am shooting 139g Hammer bullets with Retumbo. Always shooting 3/4 or less at 100 yards. I expected your video to show better groups than was displayed given my experience with the 6.5 PRC.
I agree in full I think the cartridge is more than capable of fine accuracy, I was a little disappointed with it as well to be honest. Hindsight being 20/20 I wish I would have done a little more load development but I still think we put a fair amount of different loads through the rifle and it should have performed better. We do our best to showcase the results exactly as we get them though and this particular rifle simply did not perform. I do know that this company is not in business any longer so perhaps this rifle slipped through quality control. I think in the future we'll have to revisit the 6.5 PRC load development and see what kind of accuracy we can get from a different rifle. Thank you for watching and taking the time to comment! --Jeremiah
@@HandloaderTV I thought you did a great job with variety of powder and bullets. I thought the rifle was you were using was the culprit??
@@HandloaderTV I would like you to do a segment on copper bullets.
@@donrandall2030 Thank you I appreciate that we did put a wide variety of loads through this rifle many were not shown on camera, for times sake we only show the best results. I agree I think the rifle very well could be to blame here especially with it being a late production rifle right before the plant closed.
As for the copper bullets I try to feature them whenever I can and I would love to do a segment on all copper bullets but sadly that is on the back burner until we get a little more caught up with current projects. Hopefully one day though! The more folks ask though the higher up the list it moves! --Jeremiah
I expected better results also. I have a 6.5saum custom shooting 140 berger hunter reloads. My favorite rifle/caliber I've ever owned. Rifle built by DavTac in Shreveport, LA.
On average and overall that's some pretty good shooting Jeremiah. Thank you for your dedication to our favorite craft.
I appreciate the kind words, to be honest I was not really impressed with the groups but I can be a bit of a stickler for accuracy and it is a relative term after all. That said I would not hesitate to hit the field with this rifle. You are very welcome thank you for taking the time to watch and comment it is always greatly appreciated! It is nice to be able to talk about and share the joys of handloading with others! --Jeremiah
So when shooting grouping is not your top priority is it ?
@@long-range-eliminator I am not saying that at all, on the contrary when I am developing loads I strive to find the most accurate loads. I am always trying to get the smallest groups possible. Thank you for taking the time to watch and comment! --Jeremiah
We missed some of the standard deviation and extreme spreads on the middle loads. Thank you for the great effort. I also am Jones Ing for your shooting bench.
at 16:05 we review each of the targets and review the data in case you miss any during the shooting scenes. Thank you for watching we are glad you enjoyed the video! That bench is awesome it is a shame the company is not still around!
Excellent video. Deserves so many more 👍 likes!
Thank you for the kind words and for the feedback it is always appreciated! --Jeremiah
Group 1/2 inch are acceptable for me or smaller. If not I will keep working on the load.
I am sure we could do more load development and and shrink the group size and perhaps this is something we should revisit in the future. This was one of the first rifles we tested on video and Hindsight being 20/20 I think I would have changed a few things. Thank you for watching and for sharing your experience!
Great video, I have been watching more and more of your videos and I seem to learn a lot on each video. I read some else's comments about using random bullets and loads and not do load development with a single bullet and power.
Could you do a video where you pick a bullet and powder and the explain your process of load development then follow that process and going through the range shooting and share your results; then explain how the process produced the results. Show how to find an optimal group for a bullet and powder.
Love to see you work the 280 ack imp.
Thanks for sharing.
Thank you very much this rifle did not perform quite to my standards but we try to show the results exactly as we get them. We do our best to be open and honest and most importantly unbiased. If it is a new cartridge or a cartridge I am unfamiliar with I will generally shoot a couple of powders with the same bullet. It really just depends on what I am working on.
I would love to do a video on load development and the process behind it, the only issue is it is not always the same depending on what cartridge and what kind of rifle it is. It also depends on what my goals are which I believe we discussed on the phone the other day. I think it would be good to detail that so folks know exactly what I am doing and perhaps even how it can differ depending on what my goals are.
I do have plans to do a load development video on the .280 AI I have two rifles one is a Nosler M48 Custom with a 24" and the other is a Custom rifle built by Dave Fink on a Remington 700 and it has a 26" barrel. Eventually we will get around to doing both. Thank you for all of your support and your kind words they are greatly appreciated!! --Jeremiah
@@HandloaderTV Jeremiah, That would be awesome and I would love to see how you go about create a great load for those two guns. I think that you should do a video on each one and then maybe a 3rd one to compare the results. I didn't really ever think about what your goals might be, I just thought that get it as tight of a group as possible would be the general goal. But after you and I spoke on the phone I can see where you could have a lot of different goals and then you develop to achieve that goal. When you do you next goal, explain that to the public how you might have different goals and the process might be different depending on your goal. I think they would really benefit from what you told me on the phone. I am looking forward to your load development on the 280 AI. Thanks for sharing. You are a wealth of knowledge. Keep it up!!!
@@michaelnelson1911 It is in the plan I am not sure when but we have it on our to do list! I certainly want to shoot both of the rifles and perhaps even compare it to the 7mm Rem mag as well. I think that would make for a very interesting video! Of course getting components does not make it easy either! That is the general idea for sure I am always looking for the smallest groups but I also don't want to chase my tail for .1" tighter groups. I do like that Idea and I think it would be beneficial to mention. I will try to remember to mention those things in the next load development video! I appreciate it and I appreciate all the support, we will keep the videos coming slow and steady! --Jeremiah
Thanks for the video and your time. I'm not impressed with my 6.5 creedmore I hit a deer behind the shoulder and it missed every vital organ. It came out his spine needless to say I've heard serveal complaints and similar stories. This was a 143 grain Hornaday bullet. I believe ill stick to a 308 or 30 06.
You are very welcome! Thank you for watching we appreciate it. We strive to provide honest and trustworthy reviews and information. I have to say 30-06 is prolly my favorite hunting cartridge (personally). I think it is hard to beat. Thanks for sharing your experience.
There is that thing that rings true ime: shock means a lot with the smaller calibers. I’ve yet to use the 6.5 Creedmoor. I do know it works based on experience related from family and friends that have used it. Cartridges that I’ve used that match the speed of the 6.5 Creed haven’t seemed to shock that well. DRT ime comes from loads starting out fast(at least 3k) or 30 cal and up. And even then it’s not always DRT. Some deer(game animals) have glass jaws. Some don’t. All that said I don’t mind tracking deer 100yrd if need be considering the gun/load I felt like using
You do dat...more booolets in 6.5PRC for us’ins!
I Have the same exact rifle, different scope. it really likes the 143grn eldx as well.
We were very impressed with the performance of the ELD-X and equally impressed with Norma MRP powder!
I have a similar rifle, a custom I had built a few years ago, before the x3 came out or the PRC was a factory chambering. It Has a Montana 1999 short action magnum, all surfaces squared, with a Benchmark #1 contour and slim line sporter brake, finished at 23 inches. It sits in a modified bell and Carlson Winchester model 70 stock, which I cut out for bolt release and some relief at the bolt. The gun shoots 130 accubonds and 129 accubonds over 60 grains of retumbo into one hole groups, but does heat up fast due to thin barrel. It’s fairly light, wears a 3-9x40 luepold in tally one piece rings. I use it for sheep and caribou in the Yukon, it’s a laser of a gun. Really thankful to see some reloading work online with the caliber, would be nice to see it catch on faster. Would love to get a link to the loads used if at all possible! Thanks.
That is awesome Montana makes a very nice action and outstanding rifles! It sounds like a great build to us! They are very accurate and if we would have had more time I have no doubt that this rifle would shoot half inch 5 shot groups all day long. Unfortunately do to time constrains we only could work up a few different loads for the rifle. Barrel heat was a bit challenging during our testing. we had to let it cool in between shot groups but it was also a warm day. Thank you for watching and the kind words we greatly appreciate your support!
Most of the data we used was taken from our 6.5mm cartridges special edition I will paste the link below. The rest of the data was worked up in our lab. You can also find the data on our website Loaddata.com feel free to check it out and search for loads before subscribing.
www.wolfeoutdoorsports.com/2019-6-5mm-cartridge-special-edition/
6.5 PRC is my favorite cartridge. The 6.5 Creedmoor was in 2019.
I've gad great luck with RL26 and IMR 4831..I have not used my H1000 or Retumbo yet. At 600 yards I'm putting all 5 shots in 1 inch Bulls Eye..sometimes justv4 out of 5 though.
Shooting a Bergara Premier Pro 6.5PRC or a Remington 700 PCR.
Great video .Enjoyed it. Im now a New Subscriber
It really is a great cartridge! I am a big fan I know the cartridge is capable of more accuracy than what is displayed here in this video I think with a little more load development and perhpas having the gunsmith look over the rifle we could have achieved much better accuracy. We try and show results exactly as we get them though and this is how the factory rifle performed. Those Bergara rifles are super nice. Glad you enjoyed the video and thank you so much for watching! We greatly appreciate it!
I think the first group with the partition would have grouped better had the final shot been taken sooner. Some people think it’s superstitious, but I try not to load the next round until have my eyes on the target. I worry the round gets cooked off. Sure enough, 5th shot hit higher than the cold bore.
It was a very hot day and I am sure that played a factor in the accuracy especially with such a thin profiled barrel. I think there is some merit to the round heating up in the chamber for sure! In particular with powders that are sensitive to temperature.
Also, how about the group size, standard deviation and extreme spread on the 127 long range barns with H 4350… Thanks.
sure that is covered at 17:46 1.06" group with a standard deviation of 6.1 and an extreme spread of 18. I have no doubt that a seating depth test could find a more accurate COAL for that particular rifle.
I don't know what your standard is, but the group sizes ranged from very poor to average. When I buy a new rifle, I use one powder (ADI) as it is the only one easily available, choose the case, primer and projectile. Then start the loads at 10% less than max, in .3 to .4 grain increments to 10% over recommended max loads and try them out. I stop when a group clover leaf's. If none i then try another powder or projectile, never change two or more components.
It depends on the Rifle this one had a sub MOA guarantee so that was the standard for this rifle. Of course the goal is always the smallest groups possible. Hindsight being 20/20 We probably should have spent more time developing handloads for this rifle. We were on a bit of a time crunch to finish this video. That is pretty much what we do with our load development as well but we do not go over max pressure. I would encourage you to check out our other videos as we are always trying to improve our content! Thank you for watching!
Finally got h1000 and magpro on the way to try…love to see you test a Borden and mcquarter both with your attention to detail Jeremiah…I wish alpha would make prc brass. I’ve used a few there .308…always greatful for your work….thanks a bushel…matt
That is great news! Best of luck to you in your load development. I would love to test those actions and rifles as well but it's just a matter of getting components lined up, those are also pretty expensive actions so I would have to have to able to get some value out of them such as be able to do multiple videos or something along that nature. If the opportunity arises I would love to put them to the test though! I too like Alpha brass it is great stuff, hopefully in the future they'll offer more cartridges. Thanks for watching and for your continued support! --Jeremiah
I think with a little work on hand loads, that Montana rifle will shoot much better than it does. A friend has one in 280 AI that shoots 5/8” groups using 140 Accubonds that leave the barrel at 3150.
Yeah I think that if we do a little more load development we could prolly shrink the groups. Maybe even take a look at the rifle and check the bedding etc. Something I think we will have to revisit in the future for sure!
Please compare with Weatherby 6.5 rpm! Also, any feeding issues with the PRC??
We had no feeding issues with the PRC and the Montana action, the controlled round feed was a nice feature. We would love to do something on the 6.5 Weatherby RPM and let you guys compare the two. I am not sure it would be an apples to apples comparison given the PRC is a short action cartridge (2.955") and the RPM is a long action cartridge (3.340"). unfortunately at this time we are so backlogged it would be quite a while before we can get to it. Thank you for watching and thank you for the feedback we greatly appreciate it!
@@HandloaderTV Thanks for the reponse!! I would love to see the review of 6.5 RPM & 6.5 PRC. You could also throw in the Creed and maybe the 260 & 264!! I've been very interested in the 6.5 PRC since it came out. Wanting a very accurate round that I can shoot 600 to 800 yards regularly is the goal and the 284 necked down to 6.5 appeals to me for this reason. Thanks again!
@@daleandersen9579 You are very welcome we do our best to answer every question. If your willing to take the time to watch it is the least we can do! We do have a .260 and multiple 6.5 creeds. It is a very interesting cartridge and so far we like the cartridge itself. I believe that Nosler just got the 6.5-284 approved by SAAMI if they begin chambering rifles in the cartridge I am sure we could do a video on one of those rifles fairly easily. It sounds like you are a big 6.5 guys and I would highly suggest checking out our 6.5mm cartridges special edition if you haven't already I think it would greatly appeal to you and could provide some very useful comparisons for you. link below.
www.wolfeoutdoorsports.com/2019-6-5mm-cartridge-special-edition/
@@HandloaderTV Wow!! Nosler came out with the 6.5-284, that's basically the same as the WBY 6.5 RPM! I hadn't heard about it, but can they both survive??
@@daleandersen9579 Yeah there are some very interesting things going on I believe that all took place sometime last year. I am not a betting man but if i was my money would be on the 6.5-284.
Shoot a Bergara. That gun or loads would not make me want to use it until I figured out how to get a consistent
.50 or less.
Bergara makes very nice rifles. I think this may be something we revisit in the future, do a little work on the rifle and the loads and see if we can't get better accuracy out of it. We strive to show honest test results and this is what we got. A lot of people seem to think the rifle can do better and they may be right.
Glock20 - can you define exactly what you mean by ‘consistent’ please?
Thanks for the great video. I really enjoyed it. The scenery is great. The range that I’m allowed to set up my chrono is usually packed with too many shooters to allow the kind of peace you get to enjoy out there. You’ve got me a little closer to trying a 6.5 PRC. I still have so many load development projects ahead of me. And I’m still dead set on the next being a 300 PRC. Got any videos on that one? Thanks again for your efforts and keep the videos coming!
Thank you so much for watching we are glad you enjoyed it. We did not get as much time as we wanted with this rifle to work up a whole lot of loads but I do think this is an accurate representation of what you can expect within the first 50-75 rounds of load development. I can 100% relate to that We have so many projects we want to do and the .300 PRC is certainly one of them sadly at this time we have no rifle chambered in .300 PRC on hand. So I am not sure when we will be able to get around to that. Thank you for all your support and commenting we greatly appreciate it!
Another great video for the handloading, hunting, and shooting community. Got my eye on the 300 PRC. Already have the dies, just can't seem to find any cases yet.
Would love to see you put one through its handloading and grouping paces, if the opportunity ever presents itself. Cheers my friend. 👍🏿
Thank you very much for the kind words and the feedback, I have heard a lot of good things about the .300 PRC and I would love to tinker with that in the future, I have to do .300 WIn mag first though that has been on the list for a while but .300 PRC is on the radar for sure! Finding components these days is just plain hard they are out there but you gotta look hard that is for sure. Thanks for watching and for the kind words! --Jeremiah
Dies not dyes
@danblumel
Missed the auto correct...but thanks anyway, professor. Incidentally, did Gilligan ever get off the island, too? 🏝 🤔
I don't know which part of this video had me feeling the most vicarious envy: that Montana Arms sporter, that breathtaking backdrop (what a beautiful place), or that shooting bench. Man where do I get that bench in a left-handed form factor? Jeremiah, I enjoyed the showcasing of that really nice rifle and of course the 6.5mm PRC. Apart from the 6.5-284, it is my favorite 264 bore, in terms of fun and accuracy and first in terms of availability in my area. Thank you for the time, effort, and expense in doing it. I look forward to trying some of these powders and bullets in my rife!
Ha ha, It really is a nice rifle, I think the accuracy could have been a little better but all things considered it was not that bad, certainly adequate for hunting. Thank you, I do like our range that we have set up, it's pretty country. As far as the shooting bench goes sadly that is a Konig Jager Super Bench and they are no longer in business. These days I steer most folks over to Stukey's sturdy shooting benches. They do pretty good and can be used by left or right handed shooters as well. I do like the 6.5mm cartridges a lot as well. That was what I used to harvest my first big game animal as a kid so they have a soft spot in my heart. You are very welcome thank you for taking the time to watch and comment!! The feedback is always appreciated! --Jeremiah
Absolutely! Thank you for your great response. I very much appreciate it. Jeff
@@Jeff_Seely no problem always happy to help any way I can! --Jeremiah
Where can I find the shooting table that you use? Thanks.
I really wish I could tell you It is a Konig Jager Superbench and sadly the company is no longer in business and benches are very hard to find. They really are great benches though. Alternatively we suggest Stukey's Sturdy Shooting Benches they work very well and are portable but not as resistant to the weather sadly. Thanks for watching and great question I wish I could be of more help.
You ever Reload 6.5 PRC with longer than spec COAL ?I have gone to 2.995 and have got some pretty nice groups.
I have and I have plans to revisit the cartridge and perhaps even do so with the new Montana Rifle Company rifles. We show the results exactly as we get them in our videos though and these were the best results from our standard load development. I am sure with some tweaking we could have got this rifle to shoot better we just couldn't do it within our standard load development. We test each rifle using the same methods to keep it consistent and make each video comparable to one another. Thanks for watching and taking the time to comment! --Jeremiah
I use H1000 powder, found it to be better than Retumbo. I use CCI 200 primers. All for my Weatherby Vanguard 6.5 PRC.
Could you tell me more about the bench? Is that homemade, or can you buy it somewhere?
Certainly, it is a Konig Jager Super Bench, unfortunately as far as we can tell the company is no longer in business. It is very difficult to find these things and they are very expensive. Retail on them was about $2,500 if I remember correctly. They are really great benches made from 1/4 inch aluminum they are over engineered and work very well. If you are looking for another great bench option we would suggest checking out Stukeys Shooting Bench as an alternative and are still being made.
@@HandloaderTV Thanks!
@@GetMeThere1 You are very welcome thank you for watching!
Nice rifle in a good caliber
We agree in full! Thank you for watching and your support!
Just subbed
@@dragonflyfab9703 Thank you very much for subscribing! We do appreciate it!
I've noticed yall have nothing on the 6.8 western. Do you plain on making a vedio on that cal. Any time soon ? Would like to see how yall put one together rifel wise with and without reloads . Great channel by the way awesome content
Great Video on the 6.5 PRC. Where can one buy the table you're shooting from?
Glad to hear that you enjoyed the video! Unfortunately that bench is a Konig Jager Super bench and the company is no longer around and they are very hard to find on the used market. It really is a great bench and I wish they were still making them! These days we recommend Stukey's sturdy shooting benches and that is what we use whenever we are not on our range. Thanks for watching and taking the time to comment! --Jeremiah
What kind of bench are you using. seems really solid.
It is a Konig Jager Super Bench but sadly they are not longer in business, these days we recommend Stukey's sturdy shooting benches as they are solid and very portable. Great question thank you for watching and taking the time to comment! --Jeremiah
Awesome shooting bench. What is the brand and where can i get it...lol
Thank you very much, It is a Konig Jager Super Bench and sadly the company that made them is no longer in business, After all the comments I get on it I am amazed that they did go out of business! Sadly I have no idea where you could get one now. I usually steer folks to Stukey's Sturdy Shooting benches as an alternative. Great question and thanks for watching! --Jeremiah
Beautiful rifle, but it doesnt seem like the bolt is as smooth as the Mauser or Sauer brands. Nice shooting btw.
No it is definitely not as smooth as a Mauser or Sauer bolt, Even the accuracy was not quite where I wanted it to be but I appreciate the kind words and thank you for taking the time to watch the video!! --Jeremiah
I'm not sure, but it looks like the cartridge neck is too short. Similarly, years ago, when the 308 Win. Replaced the 300 savage. Baybe, the action length made it necessary.
I'm wondering what some of the energy levels would be on these different loads. It seems like you could get very similar performance from the old .270 Winchester. The only difference would be the .270 is far easier to find and far cheaper to shoot.
The mathematical calculation for kinetic energy is as follows. The formula for calculating kinetic energy (KE) is KE = 0.5 x mv2. Here m stands for mass, the measure of how much matter is in an object, and v stands for velocity of the object, or the rate at which the object changes its position. You can easily calculate this for any of our loads since we list our velocities. It should help give you an idea for the energy difference between our loads and what you have worked up in your .270 Winchester. Thanks for watching and taking the time to comment! --Jeremiah
Obviously...not a reloader.
Where did you get that shooting bench?
Nevermind I see the answer below, thanks!
@@twowheelsrollin9049 Sorry I wish there was better news! Sometimes you can find them used but it is very very rare. Best of luck and good shooting to you! --Jeremiah
Great video. How much time were you allowing the barrel cool off between shots and between the groups?
It was a hot Arizona day. Basically we changed targets after every 5 shot group. This allowed the rifle barrel to cool a bit between shots.
@@HandloaderTV how thick is the barrel? I have a few 6.5 rifles and I don’t shoot more than 2-3 shots before I let them cool off. Two of them have carbon wrapped barrels. Do yo guys use any fans to speed up the cooling? I’m thinking of buying one.
@@ArpexOfficial it is a normal barrel. We don't use anything special to cool the barrel. The ambient temperature here in Arizona could be 106 in the summer so that is the starting temperature of the barrel on some of the days.
How do I get my hands on a shooting bench like that?
Sadly they do not make them any longer it is a Konig Jager super bench. These days we recommend Stukey's Sturdy shooting benches which is featured in our 28 Nosler vs. 7mm Rem mag video and in our video on the Oehler System 89. They are great benches and are also quite portable as well. Thanks for watching and great question wish I had better news for you! --Jeremiah
@@HandloaderTV thank you. I know Royal & see him at various shows.
@@osusig1295 You are very welcome! That is great, he is a great guy and makes a very good product. --Jeremiah
Very nice
Thank you!
Great video and setup, sub'd... 👍
Thank you very much for the kind word and for subscribing we greatly appreciate it!
Barrel length? Or did I miss it..
Our apologies! The X3 features a 24" barrel I think we forgot to mention that in our haste to test our handloads!
Wow. 3130 from the 143/ norma powder load is rippin fast for that 24". Thanks for the vid!
@@bullfisher2330 You're very welcome, Thank you for watching! The air is pretty thin at the range being a mile high or so We tend to get a little higher velocities. Speed and accuracy what more could you ask for!
@@bullfisher2330 You are very welcome thank you for watching!
I wouldn't be happy with any of those groups out of a 6.5 PRC. My gun with factory Hornady Extreme Hunter ammo shoots .16 group.
That is impressive indeed! We do our very best to showcase the rifle as is in real conditions and we show the results as they are good or bad. We strive to showcase honest and real results you can trust! Thank you for watching.
What does PRC mean? Or is it just AFA?
PRC stands for Precision Rifle Cartridge. I am not sure what AFA means, forgive my ignorance on popular internet slang! Thanks for watching!
Not popular, I made it up. I did find out through Hornady what PRC means.
Where did the black hat 🎩 go? I want my money back! Kidding great video I want a Christensen Arms 30-06 in left hand they only make 300 win mag and 7 rem mag in left hand and I want to bring 30-06 as a long range bullet I think with new bullet technology the 30-06 would be a cool long range hunter!🤯🔫✊🏿
HA HA!! Glad to hear you enjoyed the video! Thank you very much for watching. The 30-06 is a classic cartridge and in my mind it will never go out of style, with new bullets and powders it is better than ever and capable of some very impressive velocities and ballistics. I don't think you can go wrong with that cartridge.
Cool man
Thank you very much! And thank you for watching!
also, turn your trigger down, could be causing you to move a little bit
We wanted to showcase this rifle in it's stock configuration so that way everyone knows exactly what you are getting from this rifle. We do our best to keep our results fair and unbiased and always honest! Thank you for watching and for the comment!
Anneal your brass probably every five loadings. You might find it will shoot just a little bit tighter groups. And neck size only if you're going to continue firing in the same rifle. It will reduce the amount of free play Within the chamber.
I got thoroughly spoiled by my first Centerfire rifle. A Ruger Model 77 in 7 millimeter mag. A benchrest shooter gave me a load, I put the scope on it and I adjusted the trigger to just about as light as I felt comfortable with, it was probably about two and a half pound. I fired nine rounds to cite the firearm in and then I shot a 20 round group that headache Center to Center spread of .049 in. Beat the living hell out of me at the bench because of that really thin Barrel. But boy did it shoot. That was in 1979. With Hodgdon h4350 and a load that was three grains over the top-load I can find in any manual. But the good thing about it 4350 is you cannot overload the cartridge. It is that slow a powder.
I would try the Vita Vithouri only because it burns at a much cooler temperature.
That is all good advice and I agree with the neck sizing or shoulder bumping to improve accuracy however we wanted to show you what you could expect with new cases as you perform load development. I am sure there are a few loads in there that we could tweak and get better performance from. We strive for honest and reliable results that you can trust.
That sounds like an awesome Rifle and excellent groups. I would be very weary of going over maximum not to say that it can't be done safely and within pressure as there are so many factors that can effect pressure but extreme caution should be used and attention to velocity is critical, I would handle it on a case by case basis. Hodgdon-4350 is an outstanding powder though and Vihtavuori always seems very consistent and temperature insensitive for the most part. Thank you for watching and sharing your experience!
Consider using a scope anti-cant level? I think your groups would improve.
It is possible, I think perhaps this is something we should revisit try different loads and see what we can do to improve the groups with this rifle.
I second this action! I did a test about 2 months ago and found that it doesn't take much rifle cant at all to make your groups off by .5" or so
@@brucepreston3927 We have a lot of projects in the works a revisit is on the backburner but it is on the list! That is some very interesting results I will pass that info along it may be a fun test to duplicate.
Being that you can buy cheap scope levels, it couldn't hurt to add one to your scope for future testing...It really does make a difference even at 100yrds...
@@brucepreston3927 That is very true! It is certainly something we will look into in the future!
The shooting position is off and based on your groups.That's why you are getting MOB accuracy.
The camera angle while at the bench makes the shooter appear that his angled when in fact he is not. If we had more time to develop loads I am sure we could achieve half MOA easily with this particular rifle. Perhaps we should do a part two taking the loads we have and showing what we can do to increase accuracy. Something to think about. Thanks for the comment and thank you for watching!
Handloader TV I’m not trying to be seriously critical here because I enjoy the channel. However one thing that stands out to me is I have observed the host picking the rifle up off the sand bag rest, in a couple videos ,right in the middle of a group. To be fair to the load, rifle and shooter evaluation this creates an element of inconsistency. Just saying when I shoot groups I do the best I can to keep the rifle as solid as possible on the bags/ rest, save for recoil, as an attempt to have the rifle be in as near as the same location/ position it was from shot to shot. That being said I enjoy the channel very much. Good to have!
@@raymondbuie5292 Thank you for watching! We are glad you like the channel! We did our very best to return the rifle to the same exact spot every time on the bags however that is true it does induce a variable in the situation and could have effected consistency shot to shot. We are currently looking into getting a better front bag/rest. We appreciate the kind constructive feedback. We are always trying to improve our videos and we are committed to high quality productions for our audience! We hope that you see an improvement in the future videos as we continue to produce new content. Thanks again for watching and the feedback!
Sadly no Norma MRP available.
No not anymore! It is quite sad, I am hoping that it comes back, we need all the powder we can get these days! I have a few pounds of it left but there is no sense in adding it to a video if nobody can get it. Thanks for watching and taking the time to comment! --Jeremiah
That's really sub-par accuracy for a rifle these days. You know how to shoot, and those are some great components; 1" - 1.25" groups for a premium rifle at that price point are unacceptable. Guess it's not a surprise they aren't around any more.
I agree with you and we thought about trying more loads but the components used were pretty good and it wouldn't be fair if we gave this rifle "special attention" compared to what we normally do with every other rifle. We do our best to present the results as we get them. We don't hide the facts or results we just present them and let the user make the decisions. Thanks for taking the time to watch and comment and for the kind words about my shooting. I do my best for these videos. --Jeremiah
@@HandloaderTV Thank you for the reply and all the tests that you do. I envy your job!
Seems adequate for a hunting rifle, if it hold zero consistently, day in and day out.
Kent, We agree in full It is more than accurate to harvest game at reasonable ranges, in all of our testing the scope held zero perfectly. We use a lot of Leupold scopes in our testing and even personally for hunting and they have yet to let me down. Thank you for watching! -Jeremiah
@@HandloaderTV That's a nice rifle. Love the old model 70 Winchester actions. Enjoyed your video.
@@kentowens2179 Us too there is something to be said about controlled round feeding.
is that scope parrelex adjusted..... ya rushed the 129 gr
Yes, the Leupold VX-3i features a parallax adjustment. You'll see Jeremiah check it in the video, I assume you mean the 127 grain LRX loads. We cut out time in between shots to help keep the video shorter. Our editor just works a little magic and makes it look "seamless". A lot more time passes between shots than what is shown here and the barrel was given time to cool in between loads. Thanks for the comment and thanks for watching!
13:05 ELDX is 143 grain not 147. That is ELDM.
That is correct I misspoke, we corrected it in the reviewing of the targets.
@@HandloaderTV cool
I'm sorry but I wouldn't be keeping that rig. I've seen a 600$ gun and factory ammo cut holes...
It was a little disappointing perhaps with more load development and more time we could have gotten it to shoot a little better or with a bedding job. However we showcase the results as we get them and we don't cut any corners. If we showcase something on this channel and it makes the cut we showcase the results as we get them. We strive for honest results and less opinion. Thank you for watching and taking the time to comment! --Jeremiah
👍
Glad you liked the video thanks for watching! --Jeremiah
He’s limited to loading to mag length of 2.95 due to SA. He may not even know how much throat (Freebore) he has. Build on XM action, custom throat for 156 EOLS and just make 1 hole in target. Develop optimum load and only shoot that load for anything & everything.
We were limited a little bit by magazine length some bullets had significant jump that is true. I know the cartridge is capable of better accuracy but we ran through our standard load development and this is the results we got. We strive for honesty in our reviews and we wanted to show everyone what you can expect with a factory out of the box Montana Rifle. Perhaps we should revisit it with more time spent on load development and see what this rifle is really capable of with fine tuning.
@@HandloaderTV you will still be limited by your short action. The 6.5 PRC was developed as a commercial rifle for commercial ammo. It was a mistake. Do the math on commercial hornady 147’s and see how much bullet bearing surface is buried beneath the case neck junction. You will only see maximum efficiency from this cartridge using the XM action. I shoot 1 hole groups with the 156 EOLs at 3130 FPS with COAL of 3.1+. The good thing is due to the popularity of the 6.5 PRC there has been an emergence of manufacturers for XM length actions, bottom metal, & mags. My 1st was difficult to build due to finding parts. My 2nd has been very easy.
@@strengthcourage9149 That is very true, and I think that has a lot to do with the lack of performance. It is true the bullets are seated unusually deep in the short action. I believe you on the accuracy and I have been a long time fan of the Berger bullets in general. However at this time we can not justify building an expensive custom rifle to do a video.
I hate to be the doubter, but with handloading and a high end rifle like that with 6.5 PRC at 100 yards, I'm thinking "good" groups are 0.8" or better and "great" groups are 0.45" or better. My cheap (compared to a Montana Rifle) Remington 700 American Hunter with 6.5 Creedmoor 143 G ELD-X commercial Hornady Precision Hunter ammo prints 0.5" or better groups at 100 yards and 1.65" groups at 350 yards all day long. What's your thoughts? Is PRC not as accurate as Creedmoor? Can't be! I'm thinking that you can't shoot accurately through a chronograph.
I agree with you I think this rifle is capable of 1/2 MOA with a good load, which without the flyer was almost achieved on the last group. I have no doubt that load would perform extremely well at distances beyond 300 yards given the low SD and ES. We also would get the barrel hot after firing 5 shot strings only after the 5 shots would we let it cool, and it was a hot day this could have also played a factor. I think the cartridge accuracy is comparable to the Creedmoor, however when we produce these videos we are on time constraints as we always have another one in the works at the same time. If we had more time to tweak loads and perform seating depth tests I am sure that performance could easily be improved. By the time we got to our last load things were starting to become more refined unfortunately we also ran out of time. This is a good base line for starting out and perhaps we could do a follow up video with a few seating depth tests tweaks to help improve performance. If you are doubtful of the shooters ability I would recommend watching this video here. th-cam.com/video/TMikHqOkzdk/w-d-xo.html We strive to show our results in an honest manner and we like to show our results good or bad. We only put about 50 rounds through this rifle and with various different bullets and powders and these were the results. I hope this answers all your questions and if you have any further questions don't hesitate to reach out. We read all of our comments and are committed to audience. Thank you for watching and thank you for your comment!
David - could you please clarify what you mean by “1.65 inch groups at 350 yards all day long”? For instance how many groups? Are they all 1.65” as you wrote or do they vary & if so by how much? How many shots in each group?
@@Russell-1 The "...all day long..." comment was regarding the 100 yard groups. I've spent April to November (20 days at the range) shooting 5-shot 0.5" or better (0.34" best) groups at 100 yards with my Rem-700 American Hunter (recoil lug glass bedded and Timney Trigger at 1.8 lbs). Also, I took it out during that period to a longer range where I shot a 1.65" 4-shot group at 350 yards (would attach a photo if I could).
Just wait for TC to chamber it in the Venture. I've got one in a 270 win that shoots under 1/2 inch with factory ammo. I know other TC owners using different calibers with same results.
might as well buy a Winchester, mine will do that.
We do our best to showcase the rifle in an honest fashion and we don't skew any numbers and we be sure to show our results. We probably could have tightened up the groups with more load development and seating depth tests. However we did our best to pick the best loads we could and what we thought would perform the best. Thanks again for watching and for the comment.
Looks like a 6.5 shot gun..my bergara is 1/2 moa with anything I've ever tried in it....
I agree in full, I have thought about dusting it off and seeing if it would shoot any better but just haven't gotten around to it and since they are not around anymore seems like a mute point for a video. I can't help but wonder if that is why they are not around anymore. Either way thanks for watching we do our very best to showcase the results exactly as we get them and pride ourselves with honest assessments and evaluations. --Jeremiah
I purchased a Browning X Bolt Hells Canyon in 6.5 PRC along with Hornady ammo and after getting the scope set it shoots 1/2 "groups at 100 yards. I would have expected at least that amount of accuracy from a gun that costs twice as much.
Browning has been making some nice rifles as of lately. We shot Hornady Match ammo and produced about 1" groups with this rifle. I think with some work and more load development the rifle could do better. Perhaps we can do a follow up in the near future However we wanted to show the results as they were. We strive for honest and trustworthy information for our audience. Thank you for watching.
@@HandloaderTV Did you lap the scope rings and throw some bedding in there?? Most rifles, no matter how good need that little extra. I think with a few of those loads you can tighten them up. I guess if a guy wants to shoot a factory he can BUT I have found my best loads beat factory 9 out of ten...just find the node.
@@gregrauscher4524 We did lap the scope rings however we did not alter the rifle itself in any way from it's factory condition so that way our viewers can know what to expect right out of the box. Perhaps this is something that we should revisit in the future and see if we can tighten up these groups a little bit. Tweaking the rifle and the loads. I agree in full handloads shoot better than factory 99% of the time. Thank you for watching!
I just got the same gun. I haven’t shot it much finally got some ammo. I have some 156 Berger coming next week. I like to shoot 1000 yards. I also tweaked the trigger to 2.2 three port area 419 muzzle break makes it nice to shoot
@@fordracer1415 That's awesome! We have a couple of those 156 Bergers we really need to try them out, they should work well in that cartridge definitely a good choice for hitting steel at extended ranges!
Imagine if the guy took his time and made good shots
There is a lot of time between shots that is edited out we also edit out the changing of the targets to keep the video shorter. Our editor just works a little magic and makes it look "seamless" If you have doubts about the shooters capability I would encourage you to check out this video here on the 22-250. th-cam.com/video/TMikHqOkzdk/w-d-xo.html
I think the rifle is capable of better accuracy however more time was needed to develop loads. We strive to show our results in an open and honest fashion. We want a production that our audience can trust! Thank you for watching and for the feedback.
Thought the parent case is a 300 Ruger Compact Magnum. The 375 Ruger was parent of 300 rcm. So grandfather maybe lol
Ha ha I suppose you could look at it that way. Parent case usually refers to the original case used to create the cartridge for example the 6.5 Creedmoor is the parent case of the 6mm Creedmoor. You also have the .22 Creedmoor but it's parent case is the 6.5 Creedmoor not the 6mm Creedmoor even though it's easier to neck 6mm creed to .22 creed the original case it was based off was the 6.5 Creedmoor. Hopefully that makes sense and is not too confusing, basically the .375 Ruger has more than one kid lol! Thanks for watching and thanks for commenting!
Great video, on the cartridge and the rifle.
Where is the rifle now? I know someone who might want to buy it....
Glad you liked the video, Thank you for watching! We actually purchased this rifle for testing and in case we should ever want to revisit the cartridge or the rifle.
Hey mate.
A little advice if you don't mind.
The 6.5 was created by necking down a 300 ruger compact not a 375. The 375 is the 300 prc.
Your shooting position isn't comfortable. I can tell from the video.
Your shooting arm and wrist is way too wide and should be straight so your wrist and trigger finger line up with he stock. Will help getting a better squeeze on the trigger and straight pull with the finger.
You have massive muzzle jump which won't help with accuracy testing.
Also when single feeding you don't need to push the round into the magazine just sit it free in the chamber and push your bolt.
forward.
Keep going bro. I'll check back later.
Thanks for dropping a comment we appreciate it! The .300 Ruger compact is based off the .375 Ruger, which by definition would be considered the parent case. In the same manner the 30-06 is the parent case of many different cartridges.
Consistency is key to accuracy we took great care to ensure the rifle was placed on the bag as close as possible to the original position as possible. I will pass your tip along to our shooter, however everyone is different and I am sure he had his reasons as well.
I do agree the rifle could have rode the bags a little better.
The Montana bolt is similar to a model 70 Winchester and features controlled round feeding. It would be counter productive to force the extractor over the rim of the cartridge with this design. Which is why cartridges were loaded in the magazine.
We appreciate the comment and hope this addresses your issues and explains our reasoning. Thank you for watching and good shooting!
@@HandloaderTV awesome info. I've learnt some stuff thanks to you.
Keep up the good work
@@GTRSniper1 Thank you very much! glad to hear that, We are dedicated to providing good honest info to our viewers. Thank you for your support!
You need to send that rifle back it's broken. A stock Savage will do that and better for 1/3 the cost.
I would be pissed off if my Savage's shot like that. All my savages do 1/2 to 3/4 inch with minimal load development, granted they are varmint calibers but 6.5 PRC shoulda done better. It isn't the shooter, that guy can shoot. In the 22-250 video he laid down numerous 1/2 inch 5 shot groups. I appreciate them showing the groups though and being honest. Good channel.
@@bmoorear Thank you for the kind words and the compliment on the shooting. We do our very best to be honest and show our results and the rifles without skewing the results. I am sure with some extra load development and seating depth tests we could have shrunk the groups however we did not really have the time with this particular video and it goes to show you what you would have to do to get this rifle to shoot. Perhaps we should revisit this rifle in the future and see what we need to do to make it shoot better. Thank you for your support and for watching our videos! We greatly appreciate it.
Production rifle with production ammo, RPR with Hornaday147 eldm. .38 to .52moa at 100y and ring 3in steel eight for ten at 600y. Something is wrong here!
Without the flyer the last group was .69" which is not a bad group. We prolly could have done more load development however we like to be honest and open with our audience, we show the results for what they are good or bad.
@@HandloaderTV Yup! Skipped around a lot bullets and powders.
@@dragonflyfab9703 Perhaps we shall revisit this and do a detailed work up with different powders and see if we can get the rifle to shoot a little better. It's always a struggle to fit everything into the video and keep it at a reasonable length.
You should send that gun back I thought montana rifle company rifles are shooters. A high grade custom type rifle should have a average group of .5 to 1 inch not 1.5 to 1 inch
Sadly Montana Rifle Company is no longer in business, this rifle was one of the later production rifles not sure if it was missed in quality control or what the deal was. I am sure with more load development we could have gotten it to shoot a little better but we do our best to showcase our results exactly as we get them and let the viewer make any decisions about performance. I will admit that personally I was a little disappointed in the rifles performance. This is a cartridge I would like to revisit in the future perhaps after having a gunsmith check out the rifle and re-bed it or perhaps with an entirely different rifle. I appreciate you watching and for taking the time to comment! Good shooting and happy handloading!
I don't want to be critical but some of this may be the shooter. You never said anything about wind or really any conditions you where shooting in you are obviously out west but for what this rifle and cartridge are capable of well I don't think your getting what you paid for it you need to work on fundamentals. And instead of bouncing around with powders and bullet weights pick one and increase powder charge to see how that bullet does. Then go to the next weight and powder and do the same thing. You had groups all over and place and had nothing to compare them to. Hope you can get this dialed I cause like I said this rifle and found are very capable. Good luck.
I don't mind critical comments at all, in fact I welcome them so long as the folks are being polite and reasonable such as yourself. There certainly could have been some shooter error involved in some groups. However, I do know I am capable of better groups than what was displayed in this video. Check out this video we did on the 22-250, th-cam.com/video/TMikHqOkzdk/w-d-xo.html
It pains me to say that this was one of our earlier videos before we really had a system worked out and things were not very well explained. We did test multiple powders and bullets when developing loads we just showed the best results we got. We never really got good groups with this rifle and I am not sure if I did not experiment enough when it comes to the variety of loads I tried or if the rifle is not as accurate as it should have been. This was one of the last production rifles made by Montana Rifle Company before they went out of business. I am thinking I need to revisit this cartridge at some point. I know the cartridge is capable of much greater accuracy than what was displayed here.
Maybe it’s just me and me being picky but for the price of that gun those bullets should be hole in hole. Definitely at only 100 yards. Those bullet impacts are all over the place.
We prolly could have gotten the rifle to shoot better with more load development, however we like to show everything for what it is no skewed group sizes, what you see is what you get.We take pride in our honesty when it comes to our content. Thank you for watching we appreciate it!
Handloader TV I’ve looked at the Montana Rifles, they seem to be really nice guns.
@@stgraves260 They are nice rifles, we have covered them a few times in the magazine with good results. Perhaps we should revisit this rifle and tweak our handloads to see if we can't get better performance.
@@HandloaderTV Yes sir I agree!!!
@@HandloaderTV this was a pretty good video and I really appreciate your TH-cam channel. Realistic and honest presentation. I would have a gunsmith look over the rifle, check all torque specs before reenacting load development. This last year, I bought a very nice used Xbolt in .30-06. I did have work done on the stock and was refinished, by a gunsmith. However, it shot inconsistently. The range master was a Viet Nam vet, he check the torque on my pillars, and the groups instantly shrank, and was very consistent. It was like a different rifle. They were not noticeablely loose, but they do need be checked and properly secured. Thanks again, keep up the great videos. I miss the magazine, can't get it anymore here in Germany.
These are not good groups! I just ordered a Browning Medalion in 6.5 PRC I hope it is better than this!
BigO4185 I agree, but they are typical of Montana Rifle Company guns. I've dinked with a couple of MRC's (not mine, thankfully) and they shot the same way. For what they cost they should do a lot better.
@@luvtahandload7692 We do our best to provide honest and reliable information to all our viewers just as we do in the magazine. No skewed results no shrinking of groups or inaccurate measurements. A "we report you decide" attitude. Then everyone can decide for themselves if that is acceptable accuracy or has the features they like for the cost of the product. Thank you for watching and thank you for the support!
We show our results as they, we strive to provide honest reviews and reliable information. We would be curious to hear how your Browning shoots, I am sure you would be able to achieve sub MOA fairly easily.
Personally, I don't see the point of what you did. Random loads producing random results. It would be more informative if you showed some load development. See what you can get with a specific power and bullet through load development. My .02.
I appreciate you taking the time to cordially share your thoughts I really do appreciate that. We actually tested a lot more than what we showed here probably somewhere around 100-150 rounds if I remember correctly starting at minimum and working our way up to maximum but that was not clearly stated in the video since then we have been sure to add that note to all future videos stating exactly what we did and how we did it. This is one of our earlier videos and we were still working out some of the quirks. I would like to revisit this and revisit the rifle after going through it and ensuring that all is in order there. Thanks you for watching and thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts. It really helps improve the content and gives me ideas on what to do in the future. -- Jeremiah
The gun must be a dud.. IF I had groups like that.. Id be losing my mind and and throwing a serious man fit."looking good".. My lord.. I am dying inside right now.. Moving on..
It is funny to read the comments on these videos some people really like the accuracy of the rifle and some people think it's terrible. Regardless we show the results exactly as we get them. We don't fudge the numbers edit out the flyers. We do our very best to be honest with our viewers so they can know what to expect from these firearms we test and let them decide for themselves . And I must admit this one is one of the less accurate rifles we have tested. I think with some tweaking and perhaps a little more load development we could have gotten better groups but we wanted to show folks what they could expect with a factory Rifle like this one. Thank you for watching -- Jeremiah.
@@HandloaderTV The comment was intended to be facetious... 95% of the time.. The fireman is perfectly fine..Especially at a 100 yards
@@drostly3220 Ah yes now that I look closer I can see that!
Montana Rifle Company…. that didn’t age well…
No it did not sadly, in handling and testing some of their other guns they seemed like they were nice rifles and I think they had a lot of potential in their action. Thanks for watching and taking the time to comment! --Jeremiah
@@HandloaderTV I had ordered one of their rifles for an upcoming hunting season. The delivery date they gave me would have allowed 4 months to get the rifle setup and ready for my hunt. I ended having to get a different rifle 4 days before my hunt because of numerous lies from them. I’m sure they were great rifles but I won’t support a company that lies to me. I was glad to see them go.
@@Sean-pw3yr That is a shame, I hate hearing stories like that! they certainly had a lot of production issues that I was aware. That is poor customer service for sure. I am glad that I got to try out their action and test their rifle before they went under. However I don't blame you after what you went through with them. I would not be happy either! I appreciate you taking the time to share your experience! --Jeremiah
5
5?
Yeah I guess it’s easier blaming everything else.It’s never the shooter
There always is a human error factor when shooting and I don't ever deny that but when I can take out my 22-250, 22 Creedmoor, or even 7mm Rem mag and get better results across the board something tells me it is not the shooter. I don't like having to blame the gun, but we do our best to provide good honest information and show the results exactly as we get them. We shoot a lot of loads and if that is the best we got across 200 rounds which is about what we shoot in our typical load development. Then that is the best we got. We try and let the results speak for themselves. I have attached links to each of the videos below should you wish to evaluate the shooter and see for yourself if I am capable of holding and shooting better groups.
th-cam.com/video/hwboxumE6HM/w-d-xo.html 7mm Rem mag video
th-cam.com/video/TMikHqOkzdk/w-d-xo.html 22-250 video
th-cam.com/video/OrgAq7bvRi4/w-d-xo.html 22 Creedmoor video
th-cam.com/video/OrgAq7bvRi4/w-d-xo.html?t=700 quick reference for comparison
Not to good at 100 yds
Certainly not as good as I like, we do our best to showcase the results as we get them though and provide the viewer with the most accurate and reliable data possible. Thank you for watching! --Jeremiah
Zzzzzzzz
I don’t think he’s a good shooter. Or the reloading is bad. I’d say it’s the shooter sucks
We strive to provide out honest results with the loads and rifles we test. Perhaps with more load development and some tweaking we could have gotten smaller groups but we wanted to show you what we got With basic load development and an off the shelf, unmodified rifle. If you doubt our shooters capability watch his video on the .22-250 here th-cam.com/video/TMikHqOkzdk/w-d-xo.html I assure you he knows how to shoot and how to handload and shoot small groups.