Thanks for this, Mike. It is comprehensive and well-explained in all the steps. I agree with the thought about lubrication being a good thing between the collars and spacer/washers -- not that the Teflon washer needs it but the facing surface of the collar and matching end cap) does, for the prevention/reduction of corrosion, the added smoothness and reduction of friction on the collar surface, and consistency of the amount of friction across the collar (and end cap) surface. Some people prefer not to lube the washers at this area with the thought that the lube will attract and hold dirt and grit -- turning the combination into a sort of grinding paste - with resulting wear causing loosening of the adjustment. I see their point but (in my opinion) if the rubber boot is loose enough to allow road water, salt, and grit into the Isolastic adjustment area, you have bigger problems than the difference that a small amount of grease would make in that location. I think that the suggestion to put silicone (or specialty rubber) lube on the mating surfaces of the boots is a good idea for all ISO assemblies. Keep up the good work, please. Your videos are very useful. BH
In working with threads, I always take the threads per inch, figure the pitch distance, and do the division directly from the pitch. I've never seen the "isolastic mount" out of the bike, thanks for showing this operation. your method seems to get right to the proper clearance. Of course, on a harley, one measures with a micrometer, mark it with chalk, then cut it with an ax. I really enjoy your very careful assembly work, very professional. Very nicely done, thanks.
Hi Mike, its taken me 30 plus years to get my head around isolastics!! When i converted my 850 mk2a to vernier i had to machine 5mm off one end of the front tube, as for setting up you are correct, it must be done in the frame. Factory recomend 10 thou but many years ago i had a good friend who worked for Norfolk police when they were running the Interpol's. They used to set front and rear to 4-6 thou. Now because of the tollerence of the threads, machined end caps and especialy the PTFE washers you can not phyisicaly measure this, what he taught me was to "nip them up" and back off 3 holes, check to see they are not locked after thightening mounting bolt. After a 100 or so miles after the PTFE washers have flattened off do it again, then your good to go. The rule being, as tight as you can but DONT lock them. The rubbers in the tubes will find their own centre as long as the engine/gearbox can vibrate on a latteral plane. Ride safe mate. Dusty.
Don't knock the ISO in. Jack the motor up and it will just slip in as the instructions in the Commando work shop manual. You will struggle to pre-set the ISO gap before fitting because, when the centre bolt is tightened the clearance in the adjustment thread is taken up thus closing the gap. The torque setting of the centre bolt is crucial otherwise the gap measurement will be erratic. The trick is to set the gap too wide say 0.020", Tighten the centre bolt down to 30 ft/lbs measure the gap and do the simple arithmetic and adjust, retorque and check. Keep up the good work.
Dave - Thanks for the note on installing the front ISO unit to the frame and front engine fittings. In my experience, the front ISO will go in fairly easily if the engine is properly lifted (as you note) and from there it's an easy task to get the fixing bolts lined up and installed. Errm, unless it doesn't -- there seems to be some variation in frames (I'm not sure if from the factory or due to damage or warpage in use) and the width of the "ears" in the frame varies. There have been some Commandos that I've had to pull the frame downtubes apart just a few thou -- and THEN an otherwise, clumsy or recalcitrant front ISO assembly goes in easily. In this regard, I think I prefer a frame that fits well onto the ISO "stack" rather than one that has to be pulled down into place by the centre bolt. I don't think I've ever tried your "setting wide then adjusting down" trick consciously but I think that I've sort of lucked into it a few times. I'm going to give it a try as you note on my upcoming install and I expect that it will work well. (BTW, I had seen some frames for Production Racers with additional bracing installed; the usual seeming to be a horizontal bracing tube across the downtubes near the front ISO and an additional bracing tube tying the rear loop together [also horizontally] below the swingarm area. I discussed this with an experienced Norton race shop technician. His advice was that these mods never seemed to give any benefit and, in his experience, despite all measures being taking to avoid distortion, seemed to cause unnecessary localized stiffness it those areas. He suggested that it's not a good idea so I dropped the thought for my PR.)
Hi , I have just fitted these to my 750 , so what final amount of notches have you set these to , i assume you lose some clearance after tightening the main through bolt, how many notches have you found to work the best ? Cheers .
wonderful set of Iso videos, Mike, a quick question; could you have set the drive side threaded end cap at .005 (and then subsequently setting the timing side to 005 (one hole)) or so by threading that end cap on until it bottomed out on the interior shoulder and then backing it off until 005 and at that spot tightening the grub screw down onto the unthreaded portion of the center shaft (the outboard shoulder)?
`Hey MiTy, thanks for the video, it has proven very useful for me so far when replacing the front isolastics. Trouble is I cant get the thing back on. It's too much of a tight fit now it has the vernier on. My bike is a 1970 roadster by the way. You also found it a bit difficult you said but made it look easy. So what was the trick you used to get the engine mounting into position? My problem is exasperated because I dont have a bike lift and have to do this lying on the floor! Thanks for any tips you can give me :)
Hi Steve Yes, it was a bit of a struggle. I honestly thought that I would just lift the whole assembly up through the front of the frame and it would go straight into place. But it didn't. There was also no chance that I could get the unit installed with the shims set just right, so I soon abandoned that idea. I had to basically pry it and maneuver the unit into place and pushing the unit pretty hard against the metal brackets on both sides of the down-tubes that the main bolt goes through. I left the rubber gaiters on (sprayed with some lubricant) as I thought it would be nearly impossible to get them on afterwards. I was a bit worried about ripping them, but they held up okay. Once the unit seemed to be as aligned as I could get it from underneath, I used a soft mallet to knock it from underneath approximately into place. I then used the mallet to line up the holes with brackets. I hope this helps and good luck! By the way, the little scissor jack bike lift helped a lot, especially when lining the unit for all the fasteners.
Hi again, Thought I would give you an update. No amount of maneuvering and hammering would get it in. Could be because my frame has a strengthening bar welded between the two down tubes, I think it may be a Gus Kuhn frame. Anyway I filed of a millimeter or two from one of the vernier thingies and it fits now. Now to start on the rear isolastics! Dread!
Hi Steve, great news that you got the front unit installed. That sounded like a big job. Yes, the frame-strengthening and maybe even due to it being slightly different could have been the cause but glad you sorted it out. I don't envy you doing the rear units! I haven't had the time (or energy) to get back to mine but it's on the must-do list. Good luck!! Mike
Hi mity im fredi,im from indonesia..i have questions..i have norton commando interstate but since i've got my norton till now my norton it so shaking..could you help me please thanks a lot..
Hi Fredi, thanks for your note. They do generally vibrate / shake while at lower revs, but this should smooth out as you begin to ride. It can vary by bike but mine shakes while standing and while riding past 3,000 revs and then it becomes very smooth. There could be a number of reasons for bad shaking but here are a few suggestions that I hope will help. Engine shakes: Front isolastics have worn or need to be adjusted Rear isolastics have worn or need to be adjusted Head steady mounts have worn If there is excessive knocking sounds in your engine, the shaking may be caused by engine problems Bike is shaking while riding: Worn tires Tires are incorrectly fitted or do not match Front forks need attention (springs, oil, dampening) Wheels need to be balanced Rear shock absorbers If you want to take a video of your bike and the shaking and upload it to your TH-cam channel, we could certainly try to help. Best wishes Mike
Hi mity..how're you doing?I'm sory before..could i get manual repair by file/whatever from you?and how much price for front isolaticity? Thanks a lot..respect
@@fredihardjanto1952 Hi Fredi, I don't know if you can get the file version of the repair manual. But there are lots of websites that provide pictures of repair work. I don't know what model you have but here is the unit that I purchased for my bike. It was approximately $100. www.oldbritts.com/13_067337.html
Thanks for this, Mike. It is comprehensive and well-explained in all the steps. I agree with the thought about lubrication being a good thing between the collars and spacer/washers -- not that the Teflon washer needs it but the facing surface of the collar and matching end cap) does, for the prevention/reduction of corrosion, the added smoothness and reduction of friction on the collar surface, and consistency of the amount of friction across the collar (and end cap) surface.
Some people prefer not to lube the washers at this area with the thought that the lube will attract and hold dirt and grit -- turning the combination into a sort of grinding paste - with resulting wear causing loosening of the adjustment. I see their point but (in my opinion) if the rubber boot is loose enough to allow road water, salt, and grit into the Isolastic adjustment area, you have bigger problems than the difference that a small amount of grease would make in that location. I think that the suggestion to put silicone (or specialty rubber) lube on the mating surfaces of the boots is a good idea for all ISO assemblies.
Keep up the good work, please. Your videos are very useful. BH
("Teflon" also called PTFE, of course.)
Hi Bruce, many thanks for your kind and thoughtful note. I really appreciate it and your tips. Best wishes, Mike
In working with threads, I always take the threads per inch, figure the pitch distance, and do the division directly from the pitch. I've never seen the "isolastic mount" out of the bike, thanks for showing this operation. your method seems to get right to the proper clearance. Of course, on a harley, one measures with a micrometer, mark it with chalk, then cut it with an ax. I really enjoy your very careful assembly work, very professional. Very nicely done, thanks.
Hi Mike, its taken me 30 plus years to get my head around isolastics!! When i converted my 850 mk2a to vernier i had to machine 5mm off one end of the front tube, as for setting up you are correct, it must be done in the frame. Factory recomend 10 thou but many years ago i had a good friend who worked for Norfolk police when they were running the Interpol's. They used to set front and rear to 4-6 thou. Now because of the tollerence of the threads, machined end caps and especialy the PTFE washers you can not phyisicaly measure this, what he taught me was to "nip them up" and back off 3 holes, check to see they are not locked after thightening mounting bolt. After a 100 or so miles after the PTFE washers have flattened off do it again, then your good to go. The rule being, as tight as you can but DONT lock them. The rubbers in the tubes will find their own centre as long as the engine/gearbox can vibrate on a latteral plane. Ride safe mate. Dusty.
Thanks very much Dusty! Hope all is well. Best wishes, Mike
Oh I found this video now! You change the plans hehe I will try to watch this video and see if I understand it. Thank you for sharing!
Don't knock the ISO in. Jack the motor up and it will just slip in as the instructions in the Commando work shop manual.
You will struggle to pre-set the ISO gap before fitting because, when the centre bolt is tightened the clearance in the adjustment thread is taken up thus closing the gap. The torque setting of the centre bolt is crucial otherwise the gap measurement will be erratic.
The trick is to set the gap too wide say 0.020", Tighten the centre bolt down to 30 ft/lbs measure the gap and do the simple arithmetic and adjust, retorque and check.
Keep up the good work.
Dave - Thanks for the note on installing the front ISO unit to the frame and front engine fittings. In my experience, the front ISO will go in fairly easily if the engine is properly lifted (as you note) and from there it's an easy task to get the fixing bolts lined up and installed. Errm, unless it doesn't -- there seems to be some variation in frames (I'm not sure if from the factory or due to damage or warpage in use) and the width of the "ears" in the frame varies. There have been some Commandos that I've had to pull the frame downtubes apart just a few thou -- and THEN an otherwise, clumsy or recalcitrant front ISO assembly goes in easily. In this regard, I think I prefer a frame that fits well onto the ISO "stack" rather than one that has to be pulled down into place by the centre bolt.
I don't think I've ever tried your "setting wide then adjusting down" trick consciously but I think that I've sort of lucked into it a few times. I'm going to give it a try as you note on my upcoming install and I expect that it will work well.
(BTW, I had seen some frames for Production Racers with additional bracing installed; the usual seeming to be a horizontal bracing tube across the downtubes near the front ISO and an additional bracing tube tying the rear loop together [also horizontally] below the swingarm area. I discussed this with an experienced Norton race shop technician. His advice was that these mods never seemed to give any benefit and, in his experience, despite all measures being taking to avoid distortion, seemed to cause unnecessary localized stiffness it those areas. He suggested that it's not a good idea so I dropped the thought for my PR.)
I had a Norvil front vernier mount and it would not fit. Had to move the whole engine and gearbox back to fit it. All good now.
Hi , I have just fitted these to my 750 , so what final amount of notches have you set these to , i assume you lose some clearance after tightening the main through bolt, how many notches have you found to work the best ? Cheers .
Gloves! Any lubricant can be absorbed through the skin.
wonderful set of Iso videos, Mike, a quick question; could you have set the drive side threaded end cap at .005 (and then subsequently setting the timing side to 005 (one hole)) or so by threading that end cap on until it bottomed out on the interior shoulder and then backing it off until 005 and at that spot tightening the grub screw down onto the unthreaded portion of the center shaft (the outboard shoulder)?
Thanks a lot Kevin. Yes, I might try that, thanks. I still have to do some fine-tuning! Cheers, Mike
Why did't you turn the screws and the main bolt so you haven't to remove the exaust manifold the next time?
`Hey MiTy, thanks for the video, it has proven very useful for me so far when replacing the front isolastics. Trouble is I cant get the thing back on. It's too much of a tight fit now it has the vernier on. My bike is a 1970 roadster by the way. You also found it a bit difficult you said but made it look easy. So what was the trick you used to get the engine mounting into position? My problem is exasperated because I dont have a bike lift and have to do this lying on the floor!
Thanks for any tips you can give me :)
Hi Steve
Yes, it was a bit of a struggle. I honestly thought that I would just lift the whole assembly up through the front of the frame and it would go straight into place. But it didn't. There was also no chance that I could get the unit installed with the shims set just right, so I soon abandoned that idea.
I had to basically pry it and maneuver the unit into place and pushing the unit pretty hard against the metal brackets on both sides of the down-tubes that the main bolt goes through. I left the rubber gaiters on (sprayed with some lubricant) as I thought it would be nearly impossible to get them on afterwards. I was a bit worried about ripping them, but they held up okay. Once the unit seemed to be as aligned as I could get it from underneath, I used a soft mallet to knock it from underneath approximately into place. I then used the mallet to line up the holes with brackets. I hope this helps and good luck! By the way, the little scissor jack bike lift helped a lot, especially when lining the unit for all the fasteners.
Thanks mate, I will let you know how I get on
Hi again, Thought I would give you an update. No amount of maneuvering and hammering would get it in. Could be because my frame has a strengthening bar welded between the two down tubes, I think it may be a Gus Kuhn frame. Anyway I filed of a millimeter or two from one of the vernier thingies and it fits now. Now to start on the rear isolastics! Dread!
Hi Steve, great news that you got the front unit installed. That sounded like a big job. Yes, the frame-strengthening and maybe even due to it being slightly different could have been the cause but glad you sorted it out. I don't envy you doing the rear units! I haven't had the time (or energy) to get back to mine but it's on the must-do list. Good luck!! Mike
Hi mity im fredi,im from indonesia..i have questions..i have norton commando interstate but since i've got my norton till now my norton it so shaking..could you help me please thanks a lot..
Hi Fredi, thanks for your note. They do generally vibrate / shake while at lower revs, but this should smooth out as you begin to ride. It can vary by bike but mine shakes while standing and while riding past 3,000 revs and then it becomes very smooth.
There could be a number of reasons for bad shaking but here are a few suggestions that I hope will help.
Engine shakes:
Front isolastics have worn or need to be adjusted
Rear isolastics have worn or need to be adjusted
Head steady mounts have worn
If there is excessive knocking sounds in your engine, the shaking may be caused by engine problems
Bike is shaking while riding:
Worn tires
Tires are incorrectly fitted or do not match
Front forks need attention (springs, oil, dampening)
Wheels need to be balanced
Rear shock absorbers
If you want to take a video of your bike and the shaking and upload it to your TH-cam channel, we could certainly try to help.
Best wishes
Mike
Alright mity thank you for your suggestions..i'll try to change the fornt isolasticity first.. thank you so much and respect..
Hi mity..how're you doing?I'm sory before..could i get manual repair by file/whatever from you?and how much price for front isolaticity? Thanks a lot..respect
@@fredihardjanto1952 Hi Fredi, I don't know if you can get the file version of the repair manual. But there are lots of websites that provide pictures of repair work. I don't know what model you have but here is the unit that I purchased for my bike. It was approximately $100. www.oldbritts.com/13_067337.html
@@fredihardjanto1952 Here's the video #5th-cam.com/video/KssRr_sRzAQ/w-d-xo.html