Restoring durability on perfect guards is a NG+ skill so the game was very obviously not designed as that as a core skill. It's just for fun since you already beat the game.
About the extra damage on full durability. There’s a P.organ buff where weapon durability is repaired on perfect parry. Those two were obviously made to synergise when you master the mechanics. Awesome video btw.
Thank you! That's an interesting connection that I hadn't put together. It still feels underdesigned to me though, as it hard requires parrying and the best thing the game's combat design does is allow all three major defensive options to be equally useful, rather than forcing one over the rest.
This video was excellent! I look forward to more videos like this, and if you feel like it I'd love to see another video with all the extra commentary you cut out of this one! Subbed, keep going!
I didn't expect to learn quite so many new things after having played through the game so often, after having seen so many other reviews/critiques already and having discussed the game so much with other players on reddit. Thanks for that, liked and subbed.
My favorite moment in the story of the game is when right after defeating the Puppet King/Romeo, Geppetto is backstage. He was already pretty sus, then we get that wizard of oz moment, chef's kiss. I'd also like to add the disappointment of NOT getting particular weapons, as a preferred glass cannon strength player I am baffled that we can't have Laxasia's greatsword, chef's piss.
Undoubtedly the best video I've seen on Lies of P. Every other one I felt either just went fawning over every little design choice or bashing the game for plagiarism in a very unfounded fashion, but here I think you hit the nail on the head about what LoP does right and what it doesn't.
Adored your last project and I quite literally just wrapped up my first run of LoP three days ago. Exquisite timing. Edit: Interesting that my experience came after the November patch where Rising Dodge was given to you right off the bat. It never for a second felt like it was anything other than the natural design choice. I'd say that I disagree with your take on LoP's approach to weapon durability. With so many design elements that incentivize aggressive play, having an additional resource to manage that demands you play at a distance creates an additional layer of risk-reward in prolonged fights, in my opinion. I ran a technique build and found that my lighter weapons needed to be repaired mid-fight in a boss battle -- sometimes twice. It was antithetical to the more aggressive and frenetic playstyle I was going for; sometimes I'd have to choose between chasing a stagger state I was sure was coming, or backing off to ensure my weapon was in a fit state to take advantage of the stagger when it came. I'd occasionally miss stagger windows because my weapon was broken. Ditto recharging pulse cells. Frustrating? Yes. But did it necessitate changing the way I was playing? Also yes. By the end of it game, it was adding to the moment-to-moment pressures of a tense fight and I'd be sad if this pressure was removed from the game. Also, it buffs capacity heavy builds as they can exploit equipping multiple weapons, something my lightfooted-ass couldn't manage.
That's an interesting perspective about durability. It definitely does add an extra decision to be made during combat, but I feel it's not quite the same. The stagger mechanic creates a fun opportunity to do something different. Repairing functions more like a chore you have to get done in order to get back to the interesting part. Healing is similar, but if you play well enough you technically wouldn't need any health anyway, so it lets the player take the risk of not backing off to heal in order to take advantage of the position/timing advantage they might have, knowing that the danger is higher without healing first. I think repairing needed an extra something to make it feel like a rewarding decision to consider and not just a punishment/tax the player has to manage. (Like making the grindstones add special effects on, as per the video suggestion)
I found no real utility to it. It rarely came up for me except on a few occasions. Most of the time, I made it through boss fights without needing to repair at all. I would say the vast majority of my time dealing with a low durability weapons were simply having them go critical in the middle of normal fighting with regular enemies. I just walked off, repaired it, and returned. It accounted for nothing more than a mild annoyance in those situations. At worst, it would mess up a bigger fight that had gone on too long, one thing would lead to another, and the fight would just restart and I would make sure I didn't go in with any durability lost this time. I see the point people are making, but it seems so wildly exaggerated compared to my experience, and the weapon I used had pretty low durability paired with me not upgrading anything concerning it in the p-organ skills.
Very astute, you have pointed out that he was talking about the long animation after hitting the railing. Would you like to say something other than repeating the issue he was describing?
@@bettermodseries He addresses the weapon bouncing off walls separately, which indicates he wasn't aware it happened here. At this point he also said "some hits have weirdly long recovery animations and it's unclear why" Anyhow, commenting is free algorithm points so commenting for the sake of it shouldn't be looked down on :)
For the fire boss, you have to use the pillars to block the fire floor, you need to lead his red attacks away from the pillars or he will take them down
This was my favorite video on Lies of P! It was a fantastic (but not perfect) game. And I couldn't have imagined anyone doing better on their first Soulslike. I'm really eager to see their next entry!
For me, the “doll house” feeling is less of a problem in LoP because it doesn’t put on much of a pretense of being a realistic world. Contrasted with dark souls, where my immersion breaks every time I find a door that doesn’t open from this side, or a ladder that has to be kicked down.
Wonderful review, love hearing knowledgeable people talk about my fav games :D! Also, Fuocos fire floor attack can be dodged by standing behind one of the big pipes, though it’s a little gimmicky.
the fire floor attack is designed for the player to learn area control, keep him from destroying the pillars with his charges and you can hide behind them
Specifically responding to the one bit at the end where you said the game sometimes treats things you wouldn't consider a lie to be one in regards to Lady Antonia, you said it yourself earlier that it's more about being human than actually lying. Carlo and Manus are a duality; Manus wants to create a world without lies but at the same time fails to realize how narrow, cruel and almost contradictory it would be to live in a world where no one can lie. Choosing to tell Antonia that the petrification disease hasn't eaten away at her beauty is neither necessarily true or false, but it's the kind of compassion that humanity allows for that would not have a neat place within Manus' ideal where you instead are only able to be cold and 'logical' to her.
Very good video, especially for such a new channel. I loved the "commentary" you added by using character quotes from in game😃 While i disagree with several of your complaints as many of those points didn't harm my enjoyment of it at all, i did want to provide an alternate take on the wish cube. This item is incredibly useful, even if you don't use spectres. It is essentially Lies of P's version of the Flask of Wondrous Physik from Elden Ring. An additional item that can be used in combat to provide specific buffs rather than just using Pulse Cells. It is particularly useful when you upgrade it with the "Quick Wishstone Use" P Organ ability and add some extra uses of it. It gives you uet another item in your combat toolkit along with Fable Arts, Legion Arms, dodging, guarding, Guard Regain, Perfect Guards, and items. However, for people who ARE using spectres (and i say, by all means, use them if it helps you enjoy the game), it is even better. Obviously, the rising dodge is no longer an issue after patch 1.3 and thankfully it was added to the toolkit. Personally, i actually felt that dodging was more responsive and useful WITHOUT the Link Dodge ability, which more feels like it locks you into a double dodge if you accidentally press the button a few times. Of course, Link Dodge is very useful if you are making a dodge centric build as there are many P Organ upgrades to dodging and it is a very viable way to play too.
Thank you for the kind words and for sharing your thought! I had a similar thought about the Link Dodge being potentially harmful in my early notes, but never came back around to experiment with it. I think I got too focused on analyzing the jank dodge instead.
Just found this video. Right off the bat, I want to say: This is an amazing, in-depth review. Deserves WAY more views than it got, and dare I say, the attention of the developers themselves, as it definitely would help improve the DLC they're working on (which I'm super hyped about it). I really hope Neowiz/Round 8 watches this video and takes away a lot of your feedback I agree with a lot of the points and found them very informative. For example: Jank dodges and the ABSURD tracking of certain boss attacks that are also poorly telegraphed/animated. Some I can forgive, like the attack you showed off from the atoned boss fight. But in general, a lot of them are just bad. Jank dodges are inconsistent and annoying. Weapons getting stuck inconsistently and no feedback for running out of stamina is also a major issue. I also agree that not having poise save a few attacks is a very good design choice (even though a lot of people hate it). And, I also appreciate the inclusion of delayed attacks as it keeps you on your toes, and don't even mind the overuse but... the delayed overheads, paired with their absurd tracking (which is poorly telegraphed as there aren't any turning animations for a lot of these attacks) are a major issue that breaks immersion just as much as the contrived obstacles to exploration. Funnily enough, my 3 least favorite bosses are: Fuoco, Phase 1 Manus and the 2nd BRB fight. Though when it comes to Fuoco, about that one move where he pisses lava everywhere, you're meant to use the pillars in the arena as cover. And there is a ton of lore in the individual levels pertaining to that level's boss. This is true for Andreus, and IMO, is a good reason for a second bar. Agree with everything related to exploration and the guard regain and grindstone systems. And the tweak you suggested for the grindstone is absolutely amazing. And when it comes to guard regain being borderline useless now, I believe it's because it was designed in mind with damage numbers from the demo, which was a lot more brutal from what I remember. So, buff the HP and damage again, in exchange of AI tweaks for stagger as you suggested would be a brilliant fix IMO. Honestly, hope these changes get implemented as even without them, the game is great, but with them, it would be "perfect", which would be awesome. Edit: I also find the localization issues of the P-Organ ability descriptions, and unfortunately, don't see it ever being improved. And yes, Ergo loss on hit is super unnecessary. As is Shock and Break getting active without any buildup. And yeah, FUCK that door guardian. I forgot about his existence, but he is easily my least favorite boss. I didn't mind the carcass enemies attacking after getting staggered, but bosses really shouldn't have had that mechanic implemented, or if they did, have it implemented like Nameless Puppet where the attack happens after the fatal attack. I personally loved the light plot, although I can see why someone finds it unfulfilling. But yeah, Sophia rewinding time makes sense except when it doesn't, and in the case you showed, it didn't. And yeah, Geppetto knowing about the next 3 destinations was extremely contrived and weird. The "dollhouse effect" is very prominent, but I hope the DLC can fix this. Also, really hope we get an FoV slider or at least a wider FoV in general more akin to a traditional Fromsoft game. At least for me, the camera really loved making me dizzy in the middle of a boss fight.
Mate, this video is sick. Truly captivating. It has helped convince me that this game is a masterpiece rather than just very good. Nobody else I've seen defends the slightly randomised damage. Keep it up. Edit: not sure I agree with one thing- you complain that in reality, a gank squad would attack you all at once. Really? Imagine how dangerous and chaotic that would be! I take your point though.
Thank you! I was surprised you were the first one to mention the random damage, I thought that'd be more controversial. As for the gank fights, there's two different ways you can think about it. The primary one is using the logic of the video game, where friendly fire doesn't exist. There's no reason to not have everyone swinging. If you've ever played 1v3 fights in Dark Souls PVP you know how powerful a second person is. As soon as you can force them to react to one person the other will have a free hit. The other perspective (real world fighting) is less well defined, but hinges on the same ideas as I mentioned with PVP. As soon as you have to react to one person, you cannot react to the second if it's properly planned. Therefore the goal to winning swiftly is to coordinate your attacks as simultaneously as possible. But that would suck for game design, so it's a better fight to play for having not done that.
Yeah, fair enough, layering attacks like that would make sense. I have seen people on reddit grumbling about the random damage, but that's about it. I kind of didn't think much of it, but you convinced me that the tiny difference between killing an enemy in say two or three hits forces focus without making fights substantially different difficulty wise.
47:24 arch bishop was shown through out the entire of chapter 4 you hear him singing you can listen to him talk. He was subjected to a curse by the man with the blue hair cane
Great video! Your audio is almost inaudible, but otherwise great video. I love the bits with the NPC's chiming in. Expertly done. Also, I see what you did there with the Wicked comment. I'm very curious as to what they're going to do with the introduction of OZ. Will there be a Wicked witch character? Very excited to see what Neowiz does next.
The gold coin fruit was actually needed to respec your character you had to use the coins at the statue in the grand exposition to respec bur they noticed its bullshit and now you can just respec without havin to pay anything
For nameless puppet, the second phase is him but not controlled by geppeto and it’s important cuz when you win the puppet tryna stab P right in his heart and Geppeto needs to step up since that heart contains his son’s ergo
There was quite a bit to this game that felt low budget but high polish at the same time, like the map design. I'm more than willing to overlook it purely because the game as a whole was extremely entertaining. Many games seemingly try so hard to remove little quirks and complaints that they end up feeling the same as anything else from the genre. I can't think of a single one of my favorite games that didn't have something to them similar to this. I'm firmly of the opinion that we need to give games room to mess up a few things in the pursuit of an overall unique and/or fun product. The fact for me is that I wouldn't give up the best parts of the game for fixing the worst, and I don't think removing the worst aspects would significantly change my opinion of the game if the best were left alone. It absolutely could take it to the next level, but I also feel many of the issues I saw would be rectified in a second title, and I'm happy with that.
I agree with the "Low budget, high polish" assessment, and I would say that's the sign of an intelligent developer. Rather than spreading themselves too thin trying to make more than they could afford, they properly managed their capabilities, and made sure everything they did make was given proper care.
Can you please tell me if you can turn of the enemy's damage bar and the white x, very distracting and have stopped playing because of this. Turned of the hud already. I love this game but I can't enjoy it they way it is.playing on ps5. Cool video
I'm gonna be that guy. I do believe that nameless puppet absolutely needs the 2 health bars and it makes sense to the story... In phase one, the strings that Geppetto uses the control uber puppet are clearly visible. When you cut the top of good head, the nameless puppet gains its freedom from geppetto, as his strings fall and his objectives is now to kill the protagonist... even if that means destroying their heart...
That's an interesting theory, thanks for sharing! I'm not sure I buy it though, for instance, the strings are attached to his waist, not his head. And it still doesn't explain how the puppet comes back to life after being killed (the second health bar, instead of a phase change). But it's definitely fun from a lore perspective!
I’ve never understood why people defend their favourite game while it’s being critiqued.. until now! But in all honesty, if I look at it objectively, I agree with a lot of the statements made. This is a fair critique of my all time favourite game and really well put together video
I’m personally really glad that the game is extremely linear, because as a first souls-like from these developers, it likely allowed them to put more resources towards developing the story, atmosphere and combat, which to me is a lot more important to build a foundation off of. For a sequel, the level design definitely needs to evolve, but I think the linearity was the right move for their first game.
I hate the fact that after finishing the game I tried going back to my collectibles to read them all after beating the world, saw a continue or cancel, and my adhd brain decided to just click continue instead of realizing I’ll be overwriting my save and starting ng+. Why not make it a menu or an npc after you finish the game?
The sound design for this game is amazing. Parrying, puppet noises, weapon strikes, voicing acting, everything has a clear and crispy sound to it and playing with the volume turned up is a must for me. Dark Souls has great music but kinda poor SFX work, Lies of P has both. The story....is fine, not amazing, but far from bad. I like the lack of lip syncying myself, it adds to the dream like feeling of the game. Lies of P is easily one of my top 5 games of all time and I can't wait for DLC/more content in general from the devs. Hopefully in the form of a 2nd game.
Nice video! You may want to consider cutting some of the mid bass frequencies from your voiceover to make them a little less muddy, maybe around 300 hz or so, just a few db so make everything sound a little clearer.
Thank you for the feedback! I know next to nothing about audio engineering and this has been the most frustrating part of recording for me, so this is very helpful :)
Assuming you haven't played Sekiro, I highly recommend doing that. Lies of P is definitely seems highly influenced by that game, similarly as by Bloodborne, but more from a combat standpoint as well as some features (shinobi prosthetics being equivalent to the legion arms) and some quality of life improvements that you mentioned to be new to the genre (practicing on dummy enemies in the hub, return home object immediately available, etc). The sword combat gameplay in Sekiro to me is the most satisfying I have ever played, despite having very few options for customization and basically no stat-building. And I have to say coming from around 10 Sekiro playthroughs, Lies of P's combat I just couldn't quite get along with. Most of that is due to: the excessive use of delayed attacks with lightning-fast hits, fury attacks sometimes coming out of an instant with hardly any telegraph, sometimes highly concealed telegraphs, camera cutting off overhead attacks, no warning on grabs, the very tight-feeling perfect parry window and dealing with both stamina and posture breaking. To me it seemed intuitive that the game wants perfect parrying to be the main way to go. I mean look at some of the enemies that you can just strafe around and they almost can't hit you, it definitely doesn't LOOK like a deliberate choice to give players the option of doing that. Or enemy weapons breaking from blocking a bunch of times, making your fight a bit easier after that's done. Nevertheless, parrying hardly ever feels good due to the animation choices and sometimes ridiculous amount of precision required. Lies of P is definintely a good entry into the genre and an incredible first go at it by the developer! It was a huge challenge to overcome and I really appreciate a lot of the ideas, but at times it feels more like a fan project than a developer trying to create something even remotely new based on the formula. Plus, maybe on a more personal note, maybe I wanted it to be closer to Sekiro than Bloodborne, but in the end it leans towards the latter.
Arch bishop, you are right about if all damge had to be done on the head i would understand a second phase The green monster makes sense because its body is too damaged to keep going and grabs a new one, so once you break its puppet thats holding it together it woild die Manus or whatever recharges from god so his heath refilling makes sense to me And the first phase of nameless puppet is ma boi geppo using ergo threads to moves a puppet while the second phase he "cuts his strings" and awakens ergo so you are fighting a living puppet not geppo
28:13 enemy guard regen... Ok one point. If you have an enemy fall off a ledge yes they will take damage and not die. It's dumb and I died a lot because I forgot about them
Nice analysis got my subscribe, I’ve been playing this game for a week and a half and I’ve been having a pretty good time with it. It’s definitely one of the best souls games and it ain’t even by from soft💀 1.Bloodborne 2.Ds1 3.ds3 4.Sekiro 5.lies of p 💀💀💀
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Lies of P is my game of the year for 2023. While not perfect, I absolutely loved it
Dont people know that pinocchio is italian? I was upset by the faxt that krat looks more like france then italy and its a shame the only character with an italian accent is venigni wich is by far the best voice actor in the game alongside arlecchino
Great video. I'm surprised you liked the Golden Fruit Tree being connected to the hotel. To me, that seemed like the devs taking a lesson from Dark Souls - revelatory loops back to a hub - and applying it clumsily. The artificial barriers to leaving the hotel to the various districts felt poorly handled. You should just be able to go to the tree! Even if the tree didn't 'work' yet for some reason would have been better, I think. In fact, the game relies on carefully metered artificial progression elsewhere, too. Sophia, Vegnini and Gepetto all withold information that would be useful to P for the sake of having something to reveal later to advance the plot.
Lovely video, I can say as someone who played an arcane build my first playthrough, throwable consumables were a crutch for me. Definitely feel overtuned especially after you unlock the merchant that sells them all instead of relying on pick-ups and random drops.
You have to admit there is obvious bloodbourne inspiration. To say you can't see it at all is not being truthful. Some of the mechanics, the atmosphere, theres a lot of similarities but it stands out in a lot of ways too that makes it unique.
@@yeahyeahwowman8099 Sure, but it's a post apocalyptic city from a similar time period and location, the combat pace is similar, aggression is rewarded similarly, there's a similar level of build customisation, both games have a "basic" threat that is superceded by a more "cosmic" threat in the late game, and the basic level traversal and progression are just very similar
There is no possible way you have played both games and not seen the direct inspiration. There's nothing wrong with inspiration, but you'd have to be blind or willingly ignorant not to see it
Didn’t finish the vid, (I don’t need to tbh it’s good) but I just want to say, the amount of pulse re-charge clutch’s I’ve made against bosses are another kind of high. I’ve never been so focused to win bc of close the boss was to death vs me almost dying or should’ve died bc I wouldn’t hav had the health
52:41 this is a very dumb criticism please. Substance over style. Level design takes precedence over how believable a setting's literal layout is. You could rip apart every Souls game like this and you’d be missing the point. Dark Souls 2 is especially guilty of this but you see that it'd rob it of its atmosphere, set pieces and unique themes had we consider a more realistic world structure. Not to mention the level design would greatly take a toll if realistic traversal and residency were to be considered. Like take a stroll down your neighbourhood and then drive to another neighbourhood and do the same thing. The "level design" is virtually identical given the goals of the architects trying to enable a society to exist. We don’t need to worry about that in games because it exists to serve gameplay. You can simply allude to people living in the world through art design and background decals. Your critiques had largely been on point up until this. It’s almost like you suddenly just discovered what ludonarrative dissonance is. Hate to break it to you but this affects all games and had been for years. Why bother create adversity and obstacles at all if your super-powered hero is canonically unstoppable? Because the game would be boring. We know Doomguy can kill Gods and is immortal, but we accept that he will die to a mere imp in the game because ultimately gameplay takes priority over the setting.
Lies of P just might be the game that makes me play a Soulslike after all this time. We’ll see if I finish lol. Ps shot put breaks the stagger bar from range. Grinding between engagements is the reloading even though my gun isn’t empty 😂 and the brb not all attacking at once makes sense because they don’t want to hit each other 😝
This game is more a mishmash from different european countries. I don't see just France, but much central european architecture and style, especially czech. Just look at Prague, even rhymes with Krat.
I liked the fact that the levels are linear and so its almost impossible to miss something ( i didnt know theres a secret weapon in the cathedral) i guess thats Just something i enjoy cause even tho i like exploring in the souls games sometimes im like „ohh why are there so many ways i can goo“ so yeah lies of p feels like a slim version of this and my monkey brain is happy
i enjoyed my time with Lies of P which i beat just recently, but i would say that it essentially brings nothing new to the souls format. imo it thrives mostly on its crisp gameplay, which is like complete "borrowed" from the souls games. The aesthetic is chill, but a lot of areas also feel samey imo. The weapon combining is cool, but doesnt feel like a genre defining system or anything so extraordinary. I kinda found the game to be a bit easy even, but to be fair, i am a souls-like veteran, so i find most of these games very doable. Lastly, the rewards for quest in Lies of P is pitiful. Absolutely lame. (last last thing, having to fully listen to records takes too long) I enjoyed Lies of P more than Lords of the Fallen, because LotF has a lot of annoying BS and the gameplay of it isn't as crisp, but I would say that LotF actually brought something new to the table where Lies of P didn't. I'm referring to the Umbral world of LotF. Its execution wasnt perfect and actually added a lot to the annoying BS, but the idea is cool/innovative.
Feels like u were straight up attacking assassins creed Valhalla when talking about the porgan lol which is cool the skill bush was terrible ya give 5 percent blocking when I'm making a range build smh
Sekiro's Posture mechanic is very good, but it's also fundamentally different from Stagger in Lies of P. If I ever make a video on Sekrio, I would certainly talk for a while on the Posture system :)
It's not appropriate to talk about the phase 2 Soul of Cinder moment having impact because that is only true because the game is a sequel referencing a previous game. It's unfair to say hey, LoP, why aren't you referencing the .. oh yeah, the game that doesn't exist. And re: Manus. The first phase does prepare you for the second. Both phases have similar melee strikes. Both have his leap in the air that you can parry.
Right, that's why Gwyn had two phases! And that's why they did Soul of Cinder in the first game instead of waiting for the third game where it would have payoff!
re: firefowl. It doesn't matter if there's a fourth or fifth swing. The cadence is the same. If you can dodge or parry 3 swing, you can do 6 standing on your head.
what a fantastic video, i had no idea abt the laxasia thing! what a cool choice to leave the fight like that
Restoring durability on perfect guards is a NG+ skill so the game was very obviously not designed as that as a core skill. It's just for fun since you already beat the game.
Oooh baby that’s what we’ve been waiting for!!
It may have taken me months longer than I wanted, but it's here! I hope you like it
About the extra damage on full durability. There’s a P.organ buff where weapon durability is repaired on perfect parry. Those two were obviously made to synergise when you master the mechanics. Awesome video btw.
Thank you! That's an interesting connection that I hadn't put together. It still feels underdesigned to me though, as it hard requires parrying and the best thing the game's combat design does is allow all three major defensive options to be equally useful, rather than forcing one over the rest.
"Sir, A second Out Of Nickels video hit the TH-cam server"
ah, I knew this channel was going to deliver! Thanks for the quality content :D
When fighting fuoco you can go behind the pillers in the room( i dont know if its spelled like that) and the fire wont hit you
This video was excellent! I look forward to more videos like this, and if you feel like it I'd love to see another video with all the extra commentary you cut out of this one! Subbed, keep going!
That Ragnarok video was amazing so I'm glad it wasn't a one off. Look forward to watching this.
Thanks! I got hit with a bunch of life stuff right after that video, but now I'm back and better than ever :)
Yes absolutely the Ragnarok video was amazing he did show all game's flaws with arguments
@@OutOfNickelsgood to hear
Just two videos and i have subbed. I see things to my liking, not muddied by short form videos. Looking forward to more from you! Godspeed!
Great vid. You're not afraid of making long videos and the content was excellent. Answered my questions far better than the average review.
Fuck yeah! I knew it was worth it to stay subscribed to you!Loved the first video! Keep it going
I didn't expect to learn quite so many new things after having played through the game so often, after having seen so many other reviews/critiques already and having discussed the game so much with other players on reddit. Thanks for that, liked and subbed.
My favorite moment in the story of the game is when right after defeating the Puppet King/Romeo, Geppetto is backstage. He was already pretty sus, then we get that wizard of oz moment, chef's kiss. I'd also like to add the disappointment of NOT getting particular weapons, as a preferred glass cannon strength player I am baffled that we can't have Laxasia's greatsword, chef's piss.
Undoubtedly the best video I've seen on Lies of P. Every other one I felt either just went fawning over every little design choice or bashing the game for plagiarism in a very unfounded fashion, but here I think you hit the nail on the head about what LoP does right and what it doesn't.
Adored your last project and I quite literally just wrapped up my first run of LoP three days ago. Exquisite timing.
Edit: Interesting that my experience came after the November patch where Rising Dodge was given to you right off the bat. It never for a second felt like it was anything other than the natural design choice.
I'd say that I disagree with your take on LoP's approach to weapon durability. With so many design elements that incentivize aggressive play, having an additional resource to manage that demands you play at a distance creates an additional layer of risk-reward in prolonged fights, in my opinion. I ran a technique build and found that my lighter weapons needed to be repaired mid-fight in a boss battle -- sometimes twice. It was antithetical to the more aggressive and frenetic playstyle I was going for; sometimes I'd have to choose between chasing a stagger state I was sure was coming, or backing off to ensure my weapon was in a fit state to take advantage of the stagger when it came. I'd occasionally miss stagger windows because my weapon was broken. Ditto recharging pulse cells.
Frustrating? Yes. But did it necessitate changing the way I was playing? Also yes. By the end of it game, it was adding to the moment-to-moment pressures of a tense fight and I'd be sad if this pressure was removed from the game. Also, it buffs capacity heavy builds as they can exploit equipping multiple weapons, something my lightfooted-ass couldn't manage.
That's an interesting perspective about durability. It definitely does add an extra decision to be made during combat, but I feel it's not quite the same. The stagger mechanic creates a fun opportunity to do something different. Repairing functions more like a chore you have to get done in order to get back to the interesting part. Healing is similar, but if you play well enough you technically wouldn't need any health anyway, so it lets the player take the risk of not backing off to heal in order to take advantage of the position/timing advantage they might have, knowing that the danger is higher without healing first.
I think repairing needed an extra something to make it feel like a rewarding decision to consider and not just a punishment/tax the player has to manage. (Like making the grindstones add special effects on, as per the video suggestion)
I liked this feature too and it makes so much sense that the Tech weapons would need to be repaired more often to offset their much faster attacks.
I found no real utility to it. It rarely came up for me except on a few occasions. Most of the time, I made it through boss fights without needing to repair at all. I would say the vast majority of my time dealing with a low durability weapons were simply having them go critical in the middle of normal fighting with regular enemies. I just walked off, repaired it, and returned. It accounted for nothing more than a mild annoyance in those situations. At worst, it would mess up a bigger fight that had gone on too long, one thing would lead to another, and the fight would just restart and I would make sure I didn't go in with any durability lost this time. I see the point people are making, but it seems so wildly exaggerated compared to my experience, and the weapon I used had pretty low durability paired with me not upgrading anything concerning it in the p-organ skills.
dam dude this is a great video I cant wait for more of your video essays
Thank you! My next one is going to be a bit more niche, but it should hopefully be coming out in the next couple weeks :)
37:19 simple, your weapon bounced off the railing
Very astute, you have pointed out that he was talking about the long animation after hitting the railing. Would you like to say something other than repeating the issue he was describing?
@@bettermodseries He addresses the weapon bouncing off walls separately, which indicates he wasn't aware it happened here. At this point he also said "some hits have weirdly long recovery animations and it's unclear why"
Anyhow, commenting is free algorithm points so commenting for the sake of it shouldn't be looked down on :)
For the fire boss, you have to use the pillars to block the fire floor, you need to lead his red attacks away from the pillars or he will take them down
Great video Mr Nickels! Thanks for another hit of perceptive & balanced analysis
This was my favorite video on Lies of P! It was a fantastic (but not perfect) game. And I couldn't have imagined anyone doing better on their first Soulslike. I'm really eager to see their next entry!
What game is perfect?
For me, the “doll house” feeling is less of a problem in LoP because it doesn’t put on much of a pretense of being a realistic world. Contrasted with dark souls, where my immersion breaks every time I find a door that doesn’t open from this side, or a ladder that has to be kicked down.
Wonderful review, love hearing knowledgeable people talk about my fav games :D! Also, Fuocos fire floor attack can be dodged by standing behind one of the big pipes, though it’s a little gimmicky.
the fire floor attack is designed for the player to learn area control, keep him from destroying the pillars with his charges and you can hide behind them
30:58 I definitely would have noticed in the Laxasia fight, since I used the "perfect guard" special grindstone for her 2nd phase
Specifically responding to the one bit at the end where you said the game sometimes treats things you wouldn't consider a lie to be one in regards to Lady Antonia, you said it yourself earlier that it's more about being human than actually lying. Carlo and Manus are a duality; Manus wants to create a world without lies but at the same time fails to realize how narrow, cruel and almost contradictory it would be to live in a world where no one can lie. Choosing to tell Antonia that the petrification disease hasn't eaten away at her beauty is neither necessarily true or false, but it's the kind of compassion that humanity allows for that would not have a neat place within Manus' ideal where you instead are only able to be cold and 'logical' to her.
Very good video, especially for such a new channel. I loved the "commentary" you added by using character quotes from in game😃
While i disagree with several of your complaints as many of those points didn't harm my enjoyment of it at all, i did want to provide an alternate take on the wish cube. This item is incredibly useful, even if you don't use spectres. It is essentially Lies of P's version of the Flask of Wondrous Physik from Elden Ring. An additional item that can be used in combat to provide specific buffs rather than just using Pulse Cells. It is particularly useful when you upgrade it with the "Quick Wishstone Use" P Organ ability and add some extra uses of it. It gives you uet another item in your combat toolkit along with Fable Arts, Legion Arms, dodging, guarding, Guard Regain, Perfect Guards, and items. However, for people who ARE using spectres (and i say, by all means, use them if it helps you enjoy the game), it is even better.
Obviously, the rising dodge is no longer an issue after patch 1.3 and thankfully it was added to the toolkit. Personally, i actually felt that dodging was more responsive and useful WITHOUT the Link Dodge ability, which more feels like it locks you into a double dodge if you accidentally press the button a few times. Of course, Link Dodge is very useful if you are making a dodge centric build as there are many P Organ upgrades to dodging and it is a very viable way to play too.
Agree about the use of character dialogue on the game. Creative and funny!
Thank you for the kind words and for sharing your thought! I had a similar thought about the Link Dodge being potentially harmful in my early notes, but never came back around to experiment with it. I think I got too focused on analyzing the jank dodge instead.
Just found this video. Right off the bat, I want to say: This is an amazing, in-depth review. Deserves WAY more views than it got, and dare I say, the attention of the developers themselves, as it definitely would help improve the DLC they're working on (which I'm super hyped about it). I really hope Neowiz/Round 8 watches this video and takes away a lot of your feedback
I agree with a lot of the points and found them very informative. For example: Jank dodges and the ABSURD tracking of certain boss attacks that are also poorly telegraphed/animated. Some I can forgive, like the attack you showed off from the atoned boss fight. But in general, a lot of them are just bad. Jank dodges are inconsistent and annoying.
Weapons getting stuck inconsistently and no feedback for running out of stamina is also a major issue.
I also agree that not having poise save a few attacks is a very good design choice (even though a lot of people hate it).
And, I also appreciate the inclusion of delayed attacks as it keeps you on your toes, and don't even mind the overuse but...
the delayed overheads, paired with their absurd tracking (which is poorly telegraphed as there aren't any turning animations for a lot of these attacks) are a major issue that breaks immersion just as much as the contrived obstacles to exploration.
Funnily enough, my 3 least favorite bosses are: Fuoco, Phase 1 Manus and the 2nd BRB fight.
Though when it comes to Fuoco, about that one move where he pisses lava everywhere, you're meant to use the pillars in the arena as cover. And there is a ton of lore in the individual levels pertaining to that level's boss. This is true for Andreus, and IMO, is a good reason for a second bar.
Agree with everything related to exploration and the guard regain and grindstone systems. And the tweak you suggested for the grindstone is absolutely amazing. And when it comes to guard regain being borderline useless now, I believe it's because it was designed in mind with damage numbers from the demo, which was a lot more brutal from what I remember. So, buff the HP and damage again, in exchange of AI tweaks for stagger as you suggested would be a brilliant fix IMO.
Honestly, hope these changes get implemented as even without them, the game is great, but with them, it would be "perfect", which would be awesome.
Edit: I also find the localization issues of the P-Organ ability descriptions, and unfortunately, don't see it ever being improved. And yes, Ergo loss on hit is super unnecessary. As is Shock and Break getting active without any buildup. And yeah, FUCK that door guardian. I forgot about his existence, but he is easily my least favorite boss. I didn't mind the carcass enemies attacking after getting staggered, but bosses really shouldn't have had that mechanic implemented, or if they did, have it implemented like Nameless Puppet where the attack happens after the fatal attack. I personally loved the light plot, although I can see why someone finds it unfulfilling. But yeah, Sophia rewinding time makes sense except when it doesn't, and in the case you showed, it didn't. And yeah, Geppetto knowing about the next 3 destinations was extremely contrived and weird. The "dollhouse effect" is very prominent, but I hope the DLC can fix this. Also, really hope we get an FoV slider or at least a wider FoV in general more akin to a traditional Fromsoft game. At least for me, the camera really loved making me dizzy in the middle of a boss fight.
Mate, this video is sick. Truly captivating. It has helped convince me that this game is a masterpiece rather than just very good. Nobody else I've seen defends the slightly randomised damage. Keep it up.
Edit: not sure I agree with one thing- you complain that in reality, a gank squad would attack you all at once. Really? Imagine how dangerous and chaotic that would be! I take your point though.
Thank you! I was surprised you were the first one to mention the random damage, I thought that'd be more controversial. As for the gank fights, there's two different ways you can think about it.
The primary one is using the logic of the video game, where friendly fire doesn't exist. There's no reason to not have everyone swinging. If you've ever played 1v3 fights in Dark Souls PVP you know how powerful a second person is. As soon as you can force them to react to one person the other will have a free hit. The other perspective (real world fighting) is less well defined, but hinges on the same ideas as I mentioned with PVP. As soon as you have to react to one person, you cannot react to the second if it's properly planned. Therefore the goal to winning swiftly is to coordinate your attacks as simultaneously as possible.
But that would suck for game design, so it's a better fight to play for having not done that.
Yeah, fair enough, layering attacks like that would make sense. I have seen people on reddit grumbling about the random damage, but that's about it. I kind of didn't think much of it, but you convinced me that the tiny difference between killing an enemy in say two or three hits forces focus without making fights substantially different difficulty wise.
Great job man.
These type games arent my type. But you definitely do a much better job to feel compelled to learn about these games.
5:00 the Surge 1 and the Surge 2 (far more so) has a healing system like this that I preferred to the Eustus system.
47:24 arch bishop was shown through out the entire of chapter 4 you hear him singing you can listen to him talk. He was subjected to a curse by the man with the blue hair cane
Great video! Your audio is almost inaudible, but otherwise great video. I love the bits with the NPC's chiming in. Expertly done. Also, I see what you did there with the Wicked comment. I'm very curious as to what they're going to do with the introduction of OZ. Will there be a Wicked witch character? Very excited to see what Neowiz does next.
The gold coin fruit was actually needed to respec your character you had to use the coins at the statue in the grand exposition to respec bur they noticed its bullshit and now you can just respec without havin to pay anything
34:08, that is not poise, that is Hyperarmor.
Love everything else though!
For nameless puppet, the second phase is him but not controlled by geppeto and it’s important cuz when you win the puppet tryna stab P right in his heart and Geppeto needs to step up since that heart contains his son’s ergo
There was quite a bit to this game that felt low budget but high polish at the same time, like the map design. I'm more than willing to overlook it purely because the game as a whole was extremely entertaining. Many games seemingly try so hard to remove little quirks and complaints that they end up feeling the same as anything else from the genre. I can't think of a single one of my favorite games that didn't have something to them similar to this. I'm firmly of the opinion that we need to give games room to mess up a few things in the pursuit of an overall unique and/or fun product. The fact for me is that I wouldn't give up the best parts of the game for fixing the worst, and I don't think removing the worst aspects would significantly change my opinion of the game if the best were left alone. It absolutely could take it to the next level, but I also feel many of the issues I saw would be rectified in a second title, and I'm happy with that.
I agree with the "Low budget, high polish" assessment, and I would say that's the sign of an intelligent developer. Rather than spreading themselves too thin trying to make more than they could afford, they properly managed their capabilities, and made sure everything they did make was given proper care.
Can you please tell me if you can turn of the enemy's damage bar and the white x, very distracting and have stopped playing because of this. Turned of the hud already. I love this game but I can't enjoy it they way it is.playing on ps5. Cool video
I'm gonna be that guy. I do believe that nameless puppet absolutely needs the 2 health bars and it makes sense to the story...
In phase one, the strings that Geppetto uses the control uber puppet are clearly visible. When you cut the top of good head, the nameless puppet gains its freedom from geppetto, as his strings fall and his objectives is now to kill the protagonist... even if that means destroying their heart...
That's an interesting theory, thanks for sharing! I'm not sure I buy it though, for instance, the strings are attached to his waist, not his head. And it still doesn't explain how the puppet comes back to life after being killed (the second health bar, instead of a phase change). But it's definitely fun from a lore perspective!
I’ve never understood why people defend their favourite game while it’s being critiqued.. until now! But in all honesty, if I look at it objectively, I agree with a lot of the statements made. This is a fair critique of my all time favourite game and really well put together video
Great review! Keep going!
I’m personally really glad that the game is extremely linear, because as a first souls-like from these developers, it likely allowed them to put more resources towards developing the story, atmosphere and combat, which to me is a lot more important to build a foundation off of. For a sequel, the level design definitely needs to evolve, but I think the linearity was the right move for their first game.
I hate the fact that after finishing the game I tried going back to my collectibles to read them all after beating the world, saw a continue or cancel, and my adhd brain decided to just click continue instead of realizing I’ll be overwriting my save and starting ng+. Why not make it a menu or an npc after you finish the game?
The sound design for this game is amazing. Parrying, puppet noises, weapon strikes, voicing acting, everything has a clear and crispy sound to it and playing with the volume turned up is a must for me. Dark Souls has great music but kinda poor SFX work, Lies of P has both.
The story....is fine, not amazing, but far from bad.
I like the lack of lip syncying myself, it adds to the dream like feeling of the game.
Lies of P is easily one of my top 5 games of all time and I can't wait for DLC/more content in general from the devs. Hopefully in the form of a 2nd game.
Nice vid, man! You've earned yourself a sub, I look forward to your next upload!
Nice video! You may want to consider cutting some of the mid bass frequencies from your voiceover to make them a little less muddy, maybe around 300 hz or so, just a few db so make everything sound a little clearer.
Thank you for the feedback! I know next to nothing about audio engineering and this has been the most frustrating part of recording for me, so this is very helpful :)
Assuming you haven't played Sekiro, I highly recommend doing that. Lies of P is definitely seems highly influenced by that game, similarly as by Bloodborne, but more from a combat standpoint as well as some features (shinobi prosthetics being equivalent to the legion arms) and some quality of life improvements that you mentioned to be new to the genre (practicing on dummy enemies in the hub, return home object immediately available, etc). The sword combat gameplay in Sekiro to me is the most satisfying I have ever played, despite having very few options for customization and basically no stat-building. And I have to say coming from around 10 Sekiro playthroughs, Lies of P's combat I just couldn't quite get along with. Most of that is due to: the excessive use of delayed attacks with lightning-fast hits, fury attacks sometimes coming out of an instant with hardly any telegraph, sometimes highly concealed telegraphs, camera cutting off overhead attacks, no warning on grabs, the very tight-feeling perfect parry window and dealing with both stamina and posture breaking. To me it seemed intuitive that the game wants perfect parrying to be the main way to go. I mean look at some of the enemies that you can just strafe around and they almost can't hit you, it definitely doesn't LOOK like a deliberate choice to give players the option of doing that. Or enemy weapons breaking from blocking a bunch of times, making your fight a bit easier after that's done. Nevertheless, parrying hardly ever feels good due to the animation choices and sometimes ridiculous amount of precision required.
Lies of P is definintely a good entry into the genre and an incredible first go at it by the developer! It was a huge challenge to overcome and I really appreciate a lot of the ideas, but at times it feels more like a fan project than a developer trying to create something even remotely new based on the formula. Plus, maybe on a more personal note, maybe I wanted it to be closer to Sekiro than Bloodborne, but in the end it leans towards the latter.
Arch bishop, you are right about if all damge had to be done on the head i would understand a second phase
The green monster makes sense because its body is too damaged to keep going and grabs a new one, so once you break its puppet thats holding it together it woild die
Manus or whatever recharges from god so his heath refilling makes sense to me
And the first phase of nameless puppet is ma boi geppo using ergo threads to moves a puppet while the second phase he "cuts his strings" and awakens ergo so you are fighting a living puppet not geppo
I'd love to read your thesis someday
28:13 enemy guard regen... Ok one point. If you have an enemy fall off a ledge yes they will take damage and not die. It's dumb and I died a lot because I forgot about them
The video is really cool and all but WHERE THE HELL can I find the rotating models that you've shown
There's a gallery option on the main menu :)
@@OutOfNickels Oh that's it? Ok well thanks, I was looking for it for a while
actual criticism unlike it compared to other videos, even tho its a really good game you brought up really valid point respect
Nice analysis got my subscribe, I’ve been playing this game for a week and a half and I’ve been having a pretty good time with it. It’s definitely one of the best souls games and it ain’t even by from soft💀
1.Bloodborne
2.Ds1
3.ds3
4.Sekiro
5.lies of p 💀💀💀
Lies of P is my game of the year for 2023. While not perfect, I absolutely loved it
When youtube just reads your mind i was about to look this game up 😂
If all Fromsoft souls like would take place 1, Lies if P would take place 2. The Surge place 3.
Dont people know that pinocchio is italian? I was upset by the faxt that krat looks more like france then italy and its a shame the only character with an italian accent is venigni wich is by far the best voice actor in the game alongside arlecchino
Great video. I'm surprised you liked the Golden Fruit Tree being connected to the hotel. To me, that seemed like the devs taking a lesson from Dark Souls - revelatory loops back to a hub - and applying it clumsily. The artificial barriers to leaving the hotel to the various districts felt poorly handled. You should just be able to go to the tree! Even if the tree didn't 'work' yet for some reason would have been better, I think.
In fact, the game relies on carefully metered artificial progression elsewhere, too. Sophia, Vegnini and Gepetto all withold information that would be useful to P for the sake of having something to reveal later to advance the plot.
Lovely video, I can say as someone who played an arcane build my first playthrough, throwable consumables were a crutch for me. Definitely feel overtuned especially after you unlock the merchant that sells them all instead of relying on pick-ups and random drops.
Lies of P is nothing like bloodborne i have no idea what these people are talking about
You have to admit there is obvious bloodbourne inspiration. To say you can't see it at all is not being truthful. Some of the mechanics, the atmosphere, theres a lot of similarities but it stands out in a lot of ways too that makes it unique.
What game are you playing buddy 😂😂😂
People think From Software invented Stamina bars and a place to explore with no map, Gothic style architecture😂
@@yeahyeahwowman8099 Sure, but it's a post apocalyptic city from a similar time period and location, the combat pace is similar, aggression is rewarded similarly, there's a similar level of build customisation, both games have a "basic" threat that is superceded by a more "cosmic" threat in the late game, and the basic level traversal and progression are just very similar
There is no possible way you have played both games and not seen the direct inspiration. There's nothing wrong with inspiration, but you'd have to be blind or willingly ignorant not to see it
Didn’t finish the vid, (I don’t need to tbh it’s good) but I just want to say, the amount of pulse re-charge clutch’s I’ve made against bosses are another kind of high. I’ve never been so focused to win bc of close the boss was to death vs me almost dying or should’ve died bc I wouldn’t hav had the health
52:41 this is a very dumb criticism please. Substance over style. Level design takes precedence over how believable a setting's literal layout is.
You could rip apart every Souls game like this and you’d be missing the point. Dark Souls 2 is especially guilty of this but you see that it'd rob it of its atmosphere, set pieces and unique themes had we consider a more realistic world structure. Not to mention the level design would greatly take a toll if realistic traversal and residency were to be considered. Like take a stroll down your neighbourhood and then drive to another neighbourhood and do the same thing. The "level design" is virtually identical given the goals of the architects trying to enable a society to exist. We don’t need to worry about that in games because it exists to serve gameplay. You can simply allude to people living in the world through art design and background decals.
Your critiques had largely been on point up until this. It’s almost like you suddenly just discovered what ludonarrative dissonance is. Hate to break it to you but this affects all games and had been for years. Why bother create adversity and obstacles at all if your super-powered hero is canonically unstoppable? Because the game would be boring. We know Doomguy can kill Gods and is immortal, but we accept that he will die to a mere imp in the game because ultimately gameplay takes priority over the setting.
“Real life, where HP doesn’t exist” [laughs in Blackbeard]
The wishstone is incredibly OP
Loved the video keep going
Lies of P, where the P is for parry
2:50 Beated the game 2 times and I did not realize that xDDDD
Sekiro makes the exact same mistake with putting core combat mechanics in the skill tree, funnily enough. Mikiri counter 👀
"Porgans"?
My brother in Christ... It's P Organs. Even Geppetto says P Organs, not "Porgans". You're killing me. 😭
I think your weapon durability is balancing regular guarding
Curated dollhouse > Open world with empty space and repeat assets 100% of the time
Lies of P just might be the game that makes me play a Soulslike after all this time. We’ll see if I finish lol. Ps shot put breaks the stagger bar from range. Grinding between engagements is the reloading even though my gun isn’t empty 😂 and the brb not all attacking at once makes sense because they don’t want to hit each other 😝
This game already make his own genre..lies like
This game is more a mishmash from different european countries. I don't see just France, but much central european architecture and style, especially czech. Just look at Prague, even rhymes with Krat.
I liked the fact that the levels are linear and so its almost impossible to miss something ( i didnt know theres a secret weapon in the cathedral) i guess thats Just something i enjoy cause even tho i like exploring in the souls games sometimes im like „ohh why are there so many ways i can goo“ so yeah lies of p feels like a slim version of this and my monkey brain is happy
everyones gotta use the Elden Ring, hold attack bullshit now. Even Stellar Blade, which I love.
i enjoyed my time with Lies of P which i beat just recently, but i would say that it essentially brings nothing new to the souls format. imo it thrives mostly on its crisp gameplay, which is like complete "borrowed" from the souls games. The aesthetic is chill, but a lot of areas also feel samey imo. The weapon combining is cool, but doesnt feel like a genre defining system or anything so extraordinary. I kinda found the game to be a bit easy even, but to be fair, i am a souls-like veteran, so i find most of these games very doable. Lastly, the rewards for quest in Lies of P is pitiful. Absolutely lame. (last last thing, having to fully listen to records takes too long)
I enjoyed Lies of P more than Lords of the Fallen, because LotF has a lot of annoying BS and the gameplay of it isn't as crisp, but I would say that LotF actually brought something new to the table where Lies of P didn't. I'm referring to the Umbral world of LotF. Its execution wasnt perfect and actually added a lot to the annoying BS, but the idea is cool/innovative.
I dont really get some of your critiques. If the game would be no different without some mechanics, why bring them up?
Feels like u were straight up attacking assassins creed Valhalla when talking about the porgan lol which is cool the skill bush was terrible ya give 5 percent blocking when I'm making a range build smh
Lies of p was my 2023 game of the year ! I loved this game, and I didn't like the demo .
Lies of p has become my favorite game ever. Fromsoft has finally been dethroned
Masterful game, masterful review 👏
Bro sekiro does a lot of stuff you mentioned, like the stagger thing is already there
Sekiro's Posture mechanic is very good, but it's also fundamentally different from Stagger in Lies of P. If I ever make a video on Sekrio, I would certainly talk for a while on the Posture system :)
It's not appropriate to talk about the phase 2 Soul of Cinder moment having impact because that is only true because the game is a sequel referencing a previous game. It's unfair to say hey, LoP, why aren't you referencing the .. oh yeah, the game that doesn't exist.
And re: Manus. The first phase does prepare you for the second. Both phases have similar melee strikes. Both have his leap in the air that you can parry.
Right, that's why Gwyn had two phases! And that's why they did Soul of Cinder in the first game instead of waiting for the third game where it would have payoff!
re: firefowl. It doesn't matter if there's a fourth or fifth swing. The cadence is the same. If you can dodge or parry 3 swing, you can do 6 standing on your head.
Better than any fromsoftware game. Combat especially
How disappointing 😅😅😅😅😅